in kidney dialysis treatment in unless you are hospitalized. let's say we're also seeking refuge here with detailed coverage for the war. people had access to the leaders of water per day, but now everybody here gets between $2.00 and $3.00 leaders from the heart of the story. pro, send you the officials, photo to 0, that in situations like this is we will deduct to the funds directly from customs catch you on the top course. he is arguments about as well as the military campaigns in the office, as real estate that has the right to defend itself against him. off south africa says the offensive, it's aimed wiping out palestinians. but could any order by the world post office? well, this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on him. the international court of justice has met full time since as well launched as one, gaza and up to the 3 at the request of south africa and its latest appeal pretoria has cooled urgent measures to order a hold on the assault on java. since early this month is really forces have been pounding the southern city. with more than 1500000 palestinians had taken shelter, also escaping from other parts of gaza. hundreds of thousands of a now being forced to flee again to refugee camps in central gaza. as well says it's operation is limited and aimed at targeting the last stronghold of moss and java. south africa causes a genocidal act. the i c. j has all of some provisional measures since for toria 1st fall the case in january. but as well as long as we ignore them to. so count the cost and souls as old as and one that's decisions make any difference apart

from effect and will depend in. we'll discuss these questions with our panel of experts in a few moments. but 1st, this report fight to some denford, preparing a symbol of peace outside the international court of justice. well inside israel, defense is ground operations in the alpha, as well as intensifying a full scale defensive in the southern city. despite opposition for many of its allies. in the last 12 days, more than 640000 people have fled to tulsa, and israel's military says it's deploying more ground troops. their lawyer is representing south africa. say that you went, the top court must order extra measures to prevent acts of genocide test. it has become increasingly clear the dis, rails actions in rough uh, parts of the end game. this is the last step in the destruction of gaza and this palestinian people for whom the introduction, this set of hearings is the 4th,

the international court of justice or i. c. j has held on his wells, treatment of palestinians. since the start of it's one garza in october, the 1st was in january, also launched by south africa. the court had ordered provisional measures, demanding israel do everything and its power to prevent genocide lots. but as well says it's operation in the alpha isn't genocide. and the city is a strong hold it to the south africa of operating on behalf of the palestinian group. because a clear anterior motive, we need to ask you to order is ready to stay away from your office. it does so in order to obtain military advantage for a spotlight from us, which it does not wish to see defeated. south africa also accuses as well of blocking aid from entering garza, you unofficial say, only a few

a trucks have entered through the cut them up. we sell them crossing in several days. and the us has admitted supplies starting to enter through floating peer. it's military, spelt, i'm guys as coast, can't make up for what could be delivered by land. the basic point is we'll, we'd be able to get enough aid and to keep people alive. we've made it very clear that unless things change dramatically for the better, the answer is no. and people will die. as well as representatives argue it's taking extraordinary measures to protect civilians. the court has given as well until saturday to show how it will ensure the safety of palestinians fleeing to so called safe zones and says it will decide on possible additional measures to stop these rarely is sold in the next few weeks 50, so i'm getting food i'll just do the inside story the spring and i guess joining us by scott from

london is international human rights lawyer. toby cabman. new road a is a political analyst who joins us by skype funded amolla and robbie sable is professor of international at hebrew university and he's joining us from west verse of them. a very warm welcome to each of you missed a cabin. i'll start with you in london. how do you assess the laces here? and so the international court of justice, south africa's presentation, how strong was it, and as well as defense? a thank you. um. so i think it was a very strong response. uh oh, very strong. uh, audience that falls by does that sound good delegation um very much like the 1st one. i would say it was uh, evidence based um it was coherent. ive subtypes, the position as many see it and set it at the necessity for the further indication of a professional my mission. so i think it was a strong, a strong position that was, that was that tight, the, the is ready delegation if she complains that they had inspection time to,

to gather that legal team. and so there was a muscle on the delegation of all 3 that had come from the government won't i think from a disappointing side. uh, i think that was the, the, there's the same kind of denials that we've seen in, in previous or 70 the previous hearings. and i think there was a, an appropriate attract on the south african delegation as being the legal arm of a terraced entity which, which is not, not an appropriate author into the forward before the cold. but i think that the, the case as it was presented by side by side will cause to cook some difficulty. um, obviously the, the main cool is full assessed ation of hostilities and withdrawal of the units. i

don't think we'll see the cool good about fall, but i think we will see them. joe, lots of that may have been in the previous provision is just a situation and rafa is critical. and so i think they will have to take action. absolutely. lots to pick up on them is disabled. how do you assess as wells defense that the operation and rafa is to defeat him off and what do you make of what mr. cabman had to say about this way? the defense and you know the denials he says and as well as defense and that at times inappropriate. i think there's 2 aspects here, but why else? the 1st is that was very little emphasis on how most come off of fluids attacked is low, killed over the liberty of a 1000 civilians and continue to buckets and buckets, which is very civilian towns. it's a total organization. it's charles calls for the elimination of as well, and it was a little reference to this. it was if you will find even the civilian population

and goals, which may not with fighting the cause. it covers organization. the other element that disturbs us is clearly this be no genocide. even the court was bends of the quote. we're not willing to say that was joe side for you or the principal. but they did of all a tenuous training for jurisdiction, but there was a possible a possibility of a civilian population having a bite look to have genocide against the why was a but mr. say, but why would the court ruled that the palestinians and gaza have a right to protection against genocide unless there was a risk of genocide? i think they wanted to give, have jurisdiction. but clearly there's no genocide and katie, there's going to be no decision with genocide, but the court wanted to intervene. obviously, the civilian population garza has had been very badly affected heavy casualties.

but this is because we have practical in a for the top area. any, all me person, most of the fights of the bill, the kids will tell us organization and both of the area is going to cost civilian casualties. and the quote was justifiably worried about this wants to try product to protect the civilian population. but they did it by trying to to attach to a sticks into a genocide case, and this i don't think they should have done. okay, mr. kevin, i can see that you don't agree with that, but let me bring new order in here on the, again, on the is why the defense that the is really all me is just trying to defeat him off even, you know, questions about whether it's possible to defeat him off militarily aside. does that goal justify the death of already tens of thousands of civilians in gaza? how do you think? you know, the cost is looking at this issue. what elizabeth ab absolutely does not testify.

what is happening and that's what the genocide convention says. but what these really at team in the, hey getting and, and what you know, defenders of this genocide want the world to believe is or what the world to do is to believe of them. and to not believe their eyes to not believe the reports, to not believe the over whelming outpouring of reports by experts on the subjects leading world experts on the subjects of genocide. to upset that this is a textbook case of genocide and have the court not agreed it wouldn't have accepted this case and as well, wouldn't be that or should be at least preparing to stand trial for genocide in the coming months. these hearings, we have to remind the viewers are just on provisional mat measures the i the, the, the subject matter of whether is there a little stand, try and has already been dealt with. it will stand trial. and so the merits case,

as it's referred to by lawyers, will proceed in the months ahead. of the evidence is overwhelming jobs. as these proceedings were taking place, the world food program was saying that palestinians, in garza, children, and adults were reducing. so the size of skeletons and dying in agony, the united nations was saying there was no more food to give. the crossings weren't allowing. israel wasn't allowing aid into the crossing. certainly not enough, not from the north. certainly not from the south. even the americans were saying that much more need needs to be done. so it's a bit difficult to settle an argument that wants you to discard all of that evidence. yeah. and just believe the say. so all the is really representative at the height and on the issue of evidence, mr. calvin, if i can bring you and you know, i had one international in the way of michael link, who's a former special right. so to on the occupied palestinian territory, he was saying that a good way to look at who has

a stronger case in the laces hearings is who presented. the more the more credible evidence to support what they're claiming and how the south african team presented . you know, many reports from the united nations, including about how famine is now taken hold and northern, gaza and how that spreading. and he said that as well, i couldn't do the same mister cabin. what will the judges be looking at in the side and the ruling and the slices? hearing, i would have 1st of all disagree back to, to, to get it goes to said, i don't think it's appropriate. but as it goes right to say that the, the international court of justice on the higher side of jurisdiction in order to, to have the case that's not having special good, just as operate states. they looked at the evidence that was presented and they concluded as they have have states at the end of our play,

a role in the there is jurisdiction over this. and i'm, and as we, as we pass from the other guest that obviously with not matching at the, the, the merits, the substance of the options. yet that's going to come up later. but i think that for what has been presented by side south africa is, is a very strong case based on the evidence. i don't think it's, it's a justifiable to say that is around as many targeting how much of cost, but all talk to us. and of course, we mustn't forget what happened on the 7th of october. but of course the i c. j doesn't have jurisdiction of a hospice house has no states. so the, the south african case was based finally on the evidence of what it has been unfolding in the us. and particularly what was planned for rough uh, and the statements that have been issued by leading members of these ready

government, which i'll take the disturbing and, and really demonstrative of walk through intentions clearly are. and as, as you've said, do you think mr. cabin when you say that what, what do you think their intentions, claudia? so we, we can point to a number of different statements as to the, the, the, the eventually the raising off of causes that moving policy is out. and, and, and we've had this repeatedly since, since, since middle turnbook. so, i mean, i've stated it before. i think they're all sufficient statements that have been made and sufficient conduct to demonstrate, genocide is the crime of all crimes. it is the hardest charge to prove, but there is definitely a case to be argued that this is a genocide and that is the intent. but just turning to the other point that you made it in relation to farm it. i mean, i think that's an important point to, to put, you know, using salvation as a weapon of war is a war crime. we now heard

a number of statements, and even samantha power, the, the chief of us agent as estates of this, to congress. the, this is a, from unfolded and so i think investment pending voice is that's not a voice that has anything to gain any extra growing but as an independent voice stating what is the current situation on the ground. yeah. given all of that international pressure on this disable, how do you think is? well, it's going to respond. the international court of justice has given israel until saturday to show how it will ensure the safety of palestinians, you know, clean at alpha. how much pressure is a further pressure is as well on to now, and how do you expect it to respond? and i think what we're really doing is what we've done in the past present. the evidence of the hundreds of trucks would be very long in the fact that we don't have it for egypt and allow it in with now allowing to shipping effect be moving,

urging the spinning population to move out of arrows before we have tech. that's not how you do jennifer. yeah, mr. st. louis, what about that when you the 100 good to you misplace for i'll just listen for people to me about, but absolutely not lights while it's not saving their lives when the united nations, when various humanitarian organizations are saying that they are being killed when they are trying to sleep, they are killed when they get to wherever they've been told to go to and on to hundreds of trucks that you say as well as allowing in, i mean, the united nations has said that doesn't need 500 trucks a day. that's very rarely happens since october 7th. you can probably count on one hand, the number of times that's happened. so again, how is israel going to respond to what the united nations to and to international humanitarian organizations and the united states?

it's biggest ally is saying about things like the lack of aide and that is world has no plan for the safe evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people in golf. or what do you, i'd say, just as we want, they want us to present the plans for that, creating the welfare i've been working on it. what we've done so falls with me. protecting roles with goals will be move the population out and they was saved by this. and it strange to accuse as well as moving population about it should be about 10 when population does bell and the speak of the casualties. i don't know. is that correct or not, but they don't include the how most tell is if you look at the say, because this will be strange, is it the only people have been killed have been civilians. and in fact, the realities that over 10000 over 10000, the towers were killed in action and they continue already to fight. but i wonder what, who gets the, i wonder what you are now mark tall? yeah, i mean, i wonder what you're basing that 10000. what are you basing that 10000 him off?

you know, you say how most terrorists killed because it's not just the us state department, but it's even, you know, publications like one of the world's most reliable medical journals, the lancet human rights watch. use the figure is by how mazda is health ministry for the civilian for the casualties, including the number of women and children, an elderly, which make up 60 percent ms. odin. let me bring you in on up on what you're hearing so far about the pressure on israel to respond. i was to be honest, i don't think that israel has really felt enough respond enough pressure to respond in the way most of the world wants it to, which is to stop the mass slaughter of palestinian civilians. the evidence is overwhelming and we just heard in the past 24 hours from the palestinian direct crescent that 40 percent of the people they've treated in the past days have been

people who were forced to evacuate to what is real calls safe areas and what are those safe areas, they are either sand dunes, the area that it's called as my law see no infrastructure, no water, no food, no medical services or time eunice, which has been reduced to rubble and turned into a mass grave, where a children, women, and medical staff were found bound, tortured and executed. so there isn't the kind of pressure that you would expect is not present. i think the american administration is finding it harder and harder to justify where it stands on this, but it still has its eye on november and it's trying, i think in many ways to balance between um, holding onto the support of it space. what does that overwhelmingly wants to do this for, to stop, and also trying to not upset the traditional elements of the democratic party who

are the donors of the, by the administrative sions, re election campaign in all by these legacy has a being formulated to be one of our political failure and certainly complicity in the eyes of many in his own party to stop what is happening and goes up to apply enough pressure on yeah. on nothing yahoo to see is beautiful. how sensitive and to allow humanitarian assistance. and to mr. cabman america's don's tone towards as well, has certainly changed since the war and gaza began, especially, you know, in the last month with bite and even saying that, you know, withholding an um shipment, saying that american weapons that as well as using american weapons to kill civilians but i want to just how vulnerable as the international court of justice to political sentiment, or to political influence on these things that the court will be considering and making its ruling. well,

i think the 1st point is that as lawyers we have to place our trust in, in both courts being independent and acting, possibly in any matter before them. and even the, the internal court of justice, which obviously is the, is the highest cost for both the drive nations. we have to put our trust in that colt to deliver a decision. and that is just based on the evidence. i'm sorry, the fall, that is what we have seen. we have not seen of bound to pressure. we have seen it making very measured decisions. of course, those of us that stand on one side want to see it doing much, much more. and we want to see it actually ordering a ceasefire. an ordering is or out to withdrawal or military operations as goals. of course, we want to see that i would like to see it a bit, give a very strong rolling generation to this. and then when we looked at the pressure

from other states, what are the one of the concerns we have is the, is the completely irrational, a position that's taken by states as far as the opposite made in respect to the train and the honors of making respective israel, and that, that is, that is more calls the changing position that we're seeing now, certainly from united states and other european nations, is based on what we all see. the fact that more than 35000 people have been killed . that let's, let's say that the, the argument of $10000.00 is correct. but with that fingers plucked from but let's say that that's correct. let's do 25000 civilians that have been killed. many of the women and children don't take no talking this. and we're told that israel has the ability to carry or talk to the military operations. it is. no, it is. it is destroying garza, it is forcing palestinians, right? um and when, when we talk about the warning sign is elizabeth,

the practice is actually monitored and will not reserves. the fact that you give a warning opportunity for people to leave does not give you cop launched to then literally bomb and destroy the error of what we see is must have cause i hope this is completely destroyed and helpful. and then we say 6700000 civilians being forced into an area where they are as we, as we see facing assignment. so i think that is, was cause the and central community to change his position because yeah, it is contributing to the situation on the front of the things i'm most disabled. how, how is, is real concerned about the international community? you know, as mr. cabman says like changing its position as well is growing more isolated on the will stage. is it concerned the 1st,

i also hope the court will be impartial. i hope the president, the quote to is leveling. would it be impartial? i hope so. secondly, the united states complete the support is, will to aim to drive destroyed the military bunch of hum us, cuz they don't weight them and they're worried about civilian casualties. and as we all have a civilian casualties of the homes as well, we do every day make every effort not to kill civilians because clearly it's a p all treatment for how most when somebody use a killer, they don't do that. okay, that bill salt is with us, but it's nothing with her. her mind. i'm from aust headboard as many times, but that's why i just, but i also have to say, you know, how moss has said many times over and over and again since october 7th, that every civilian casualty is a tragedy for them. and i don't actually know how you can say somebody and casualties are a tragedy for, as well when it's killing more than 35000 people, at least 60 percent of the women children and the elderly of us tell you it's

a legitimate question to tell you why, when he killed civilians and civilians are killed and fighting them, come back. it's a p. uh, a asset for how most it homes us we're aware of that be the humanitarian movies and what's the killer therefore, how much does not move it civilians out. it has not to show where couldn't the where couldn't reason too much to say it's one of them, but you also legitimate question. it built underground comments? present? oh, tow is not for any civilians. so because of what they haven't been taking any efforts to build west, we bill shelters possibly. and therefore we, we took on prison that said, efforts to prevent war and sending me dumbs, get millions of phone calls to people move out. because we're again, the question is we're about to when the united nations has built many shelters and gaza, most of which have been boned by the single one. right. so the united nations has

a so united nations and israel has bombed most of the we don't have very long left in the program in this order. i'd like to come back to you with a very important point that you made earlier. i want to go back to that because as well cannot, of course continue this one garza without the support of america both militarily and diplomatically. we didn't see the bullying. we didn't see the hearing in january. have any impact on america support as well. do you see that changing now or the domestic politics in america? do you see them, stewart from thing, international sentiment? a look, i think 2 things are happening on the one hand, a americas policy is being isolated in europe, which is an important ally. and so the pressure is coming from there because the, it's public opinion in europe and many governments in europe are moving towards a point where they are telling the americans that this policy is simply untenable.

we cannot continue to support it and this will cost us at an upcoming elections. we saw that in, in the u. k, where the position of the government did cost the ruling at tories a lot of seats and we will see it in other places. most likely we've seen the student inc. compliments and so on. and so there will be pressure applied on the, by the administration from that direction, which is very significant. them, there is still the domestic political aspect involved. i think the, you know, washington will be the last one standing, but it will become very difficult for european countries to continue allowing israel to get away with that. and that's why we saw spain not allowing a shipment of arms and munitions to even dark. and it's board on its way to israel, right? countries understand that they have responsibilities. they understand that this case is that the court because diplomacy has failed because the politicians are

playing politics with the palestinian peoples blood. and that is simply an untenable policy position. at this point miss or day. we run out of time, but i want to thank all of i guess for today's discussion that is totally cabinet in london. not audit in my la and robbie's stable in west jerusalem. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website on to 0 dot com. that's a further discussion to go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at a inside story from the elizabeth put on and the whole team here, 5 to now the a pod is an inconvenience. as the oil see suffered casualties. we have not suffered to say, tyler, to use. thank goodness we did have injuries from a missile strike on

a guest house. thought provoking on to who they to say no double standards to all of us any, any one in particular. i said, all facing realities government seems here to whittle down democracy. if this is troubling for you. it's very, very painful here. the story on talk to how does era in the news? yes. again, these palestinians families in rough rep what level they have following forward is from the usability medic treat eventuate or risk that they went told russel, i'm going to provide safety. the closure of the roof of crossing has prevented the departure of thousands of wounded people and patients who were waiting to travel among them is a 2 year old lemma of a holy. she and her cousin, sustained injuries and is very s try it costs money off to 7 months of the path for more than one point. $5000000.00 palestinians remains on such and as does this apply to humanitarian aid into this trip with the warnings they could be fed

depleted? was this place from i'll shoot you a, a to on the sierra 10 to daniel bella tend to alpha. and this will be the 5th displacement, 8 groups holding for isabel to de escalate now and say there is no plan b for the people in rough uh the, the color that understands the pain. this is and use our life from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. thousands of palestinians have been killed. and then there's really a strike on a residential building in north and costs. united nations says some 800000 palestinians have now fled. the city of rafa as is really strikes continue to pound to the south of the golf and strip the.