stretched out, getting wrung out in the process, i will try to they will try, but we have got some wet weather for time, at least across that eastern side of the japan. follow a line of west the weather down across the taiwan into the south of china. and there you go, you can see that what's the weather slipping its way across the south of china to was one going province. the more widespread as we go on through, choose dice that we all got to see for the problems here. then as we go through the next couple of days, some problems step into solving parts of india, interest for long term as well, could see as much as a 100 millimeters of frame that will cause widespread flooding particular across that's for lanka. we have got re mornings, red warning, same force across the south of india monsoon right now. the southwest, the mostly in showing the hands in the admin see um towards the role of west of india. and if the park is down is very hot. indeed the

. ringback the the you and the top core she is arguments about as well as the military campaigns in dropbox is real estate that has the right to defend itself against him. off south africa says be offensive. it's aimed wiping out palestinians. but could any ordered by the world court office? well, this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on him. the international court of justice has met full time since as well launched as one, gaza and up to the 3 at the request of south africa and its latest appeal pretoria has cooled urgent measures to order a hold on the assault on java. since early this month is really forces have been pounding the southern city with more than 1500000 palestinians had taken shelter, also escaping from other parts of gaza. hundreds of thousands of now being forced to flee again into refugee camps in central gaza. as well says it's operation is limited and aimed at targeting the last stronghold of moss and java, south africa, close as a genocidal act. the i. c. j has ordered some provisional measures since pretoria 1st fall the case in january. but israel has largely ignored them to so count the cost and souls as old as and one that's decisions make any difference apart from

effect and will depend in we'll discuss these questions with our panel of experts in a few moments. but 1st, this report flight up to some denford, preparing a symbol of peace outside the international court of justice. well inside israel, defense is ground operations in the alpha, as well as intensifying a full scale defensive in the southern city. despite opposition for many of its allies in the last 12 days, more than 640000 people have fled to tulsa. and israel's military says it's deploying more ground troops. their lawyers were presenting south africa. say that you went, the top court must order extra measures to prevent acts of genocide. it has become increasingly clear the dis, rails actions in rough uh, parts of the end game. this is the last step in the destruction of gaza and this palestinian people for whom the introduction this set of hearings is the 4th,

the international court of justice or i. c. j has held on as well as treatment of palestinians since the start of its one garza in october. the 1st was in january, also launched by south africa. the court had ordered provisional measures, demanding israel do everything and its power to prevent genocide lots. but as well says it's operation in the alpha isn't genocide, and the city is a strong hold it to the south africa of operating on behalf of the palestinian group. it has a clear anterior motive. we need to ask you to order is ready to stay away from where i find it does so in order to obtain military advantage for each spotlight from us, which it does not wish to see defeated. south africa also accuses as well of blocking aid from entering garza un official say. only a few

a trucks have entered through the cut them up. we sell them crossing in several days. and the us has admitted supplies starting to enter through floating peer. it's military spelt, i'm guys this coast can't make up for what could be delivered by land. the basic point is we'll, we'd be able to get enough aid and to keep people alive. we've made it very clear that unless things change dramatically for the better, the answer is no. and people will die. as well as representatives argue it's taking extraordinary measures to protect civilians. the court has given as well until saturday to show how it will ensure the safety of palestinians fleeing to so called safe zones and says it will decide on possible additional measures to stop these rarely assault in the next few weeks. do some good food. i'll just do the inside story. the spring and i guess it's joining us by scott from london is international human rights lawyer toby

cabman. new road a is a political analyst who joins us by scott funded amolla and robbie sable is professor of international at hebrew university and he's joining us from west verse of them. a very warm welcome to each of you, missed a cabin. i'll start with you in london. how do you assess the laces here? and so the international court of justice, south africa's presentation, how strong was it, and as well as defense? a thank you. um. so i think it was a very strong response. uh oh, very strong. uh audience that full by does that sound good delegation um very much like the 1st one i would say it was uh evidence based um it was coherent um ive subtypes. the position as many see it and set it at the necessity for the further indication of a professional my permission. and so i think it was a strong, a strong position. and that was that type the, the is ready delegation if she complains that they had inspection time to,

to gather that legal team. and so there was a muscle on the delegation of all 3 that had come from the government won't i think from a disappointing side. uh, i think that was the, the, is the same kind of denials that we've seen in, in previous or 70 the previous hearings. and i think there was a, an inappropriate attract on the south african delegation as being the legal arm of a terraced entity which, which is not, not appropriate on doing to the forward before the cold. but i think that the, the case as it was presented by side by side will cause to cook some difficulty. um, obviously the, the main cool is full assessed ation of hostilities and withdrawal of the units. i

don't think we'll see the cool good about fall, but i think we will see them. joe, lots of that may have been in the previous provision is just a situation and rafa is critical. and so i think they will have to take action. absolutely. lots to pick up on this disabled. how do you assess as wells defense that the operation and rafa is to defeat him off and what do you make of what mr. cabman had to say about this way? the defense and you know the denials he says and as well as defense and that at times inappropriate. i think there's 2 aspects here, but why else the 1st is there was very little emphasis on how most come off of fluids attacked is low, killed over the liberty of a 1000 civilians and continue to walk. it's in buckets, which is very civilian towns. it's a toast organization, it's charles calls for the elimination of a busy road and it was a little reference to this. it was if you will find the civilian population and

goals that which may not, with fighting the cause. it covers organization. the other element that disturbs us is clearly this be no genocide, even the corpus bends of the quote, but not we need to say that was joe side for you is the principal. but they did of all a tenuous claim for jurisdiction, but there was a possible a possibility of a civilian population having a bite look to have genocide against the why was a mess to say. but why would the court ruled that palestinians and gaza have a right to protection against genocide unless there was a risk of genocide? i think they wanted to give, have jurisdiction. but clearly there's no genocide and katy, there's going to be no decision with genocide, but the court wanted to intervene. obviously, the civilian population garza has had been very badly affected heavy casualties.

but this is because we have practical in a for the top area, a, any all me person, most of the fights of the bill, the kids will tell us organization into both of the area is going to cost civilian casualties. and the quote was justifiably worried about this wants to try product to protect the civilian population, but they did it by trying to to attach to a sticks into a genocide case. and this i don't think they should have done. okay, mr. kevin, i can see that you don't agree with that, but let me bring new order in here on the, again, on the is why the defense that the is really all me is just trying to defeat him off even, you know, questions about whether it's possible to defeat him off militarily aside. does that goal justify the death of already tens of thousands of civilians in gaza? how do you think? you know, the court is looking at this issue. what elizabeth ab absolutely does not us define

what is happening and that's what the genocide convention says. but what these really at team in the, hey getting and, and what you know, defenders of this genocide want the world to believe is or what the world to do is to believe of them. and to not believe their eyes to not believe the reports, to not believe the over whelming outpouring of reports by experts on the subjects leading world experts on the subjects of genocide. to upset that this is a textbook case of genocide and have the court not agreed it wouldn't have accepted this case and as well, wouldn't be that or should be at least preparing to stand trial for genocide in the coming months. these hearings, we have to remind the viewers are just on provisional mat measures the i the, the, the subject matter of whether israel a little stand try and has already been dealt with. it will stand trial. and so the merits case, as it's referred to by lawyers,

will proceed in the months ahead of the evidence is overwhelming jobs as these proceedings were taking place. the world food program was saying that palestinians in gaza, children, and adults were reducing. so the size of skeletons and dying in agony, the united nations was saying there was no more food to give. the crossings weren't allowing. israel wasn't allowing aid into the crossing. certainly not enough, not from the north. certainly not from the south. even the americans were saying that much more need needs to be done. so it's a bit difficult to settle an argument that wants you to discard all of that evidence. yeah. and just believe the say. so all the is really representative at the height and on the issue of evidence, mr. calvin, if i can bring you and you know, i had one international in the way of michael link, who's a former special right. so to on the occupied palestinian territory, he was saying that a good way to look at who has

a stronger case in the laces hearings is who presented. the more the more credible evidence to support what they're claiming and how the south african team presented . you know, many reports from the united nations, including about how famine is now taken hold and northern, gaza and how that spreading. and he said that as well, i couldn't do the same mister cabin. what will the judges be looking at in the side in bay of lighting and the slices hearing? i would have 1st of all, disagree back to, to, to go to augusta said, i don't think it's appropriate. but as it goes right to say that the, the international court of justice on the higher side of jurisdiction in order to, to have the case that's not have the special court just as operate states. they looked at the evidence that was presented and they concluded as they have have states at the end of our play, a role in the there is jurisdiction over this. and i'm,

and as we, as we pass from the other guest that obviously with not matching at the, the, the merits, the substance of the options. yet that's going to come up later. but i think that for what has been presented by side south africa is, is a very strong case based on the evidence. i don't think it's, it's a justifiable to say that is around as many targeting how much of cost, but all talk to us. and of course, we mustn't forget what happened on the 7th of october. but of course the i c. j doesn't have jurisdiction of a hospice house has no states. so the, the south african case was based finally on the evidence of what it has been unfolding in the us. and particularly what was planned for rough uh and the statements that have been issued by leading members of these ready government,

which i'll take the disturbing and, and really demonstrative of walk through intentions clearly are and as, as you've said to you, mr. kevin, when you say that what, what do you think their intentions, claudia? so we, we can point to a number of different statements as to the, the, the, the eventually the raising off of causes that moving policy is out. and, and, and we've had this repeatedly since, since, since middle turnbook to so i mean, i've stated it before. i think they're all sufficient statements that have been made and sufficient conduct to demonstrate, genocide is the crime of all crimes. it is the hardest charge to prove, but there is definitely a case to be argued that this is a genocide and that is the intent. but just turning to the other point that you made it in relation to farm it. i mean, i think that's an important point to, to put, you know, using salvation as a weapon of war is a war crime. we now heard

a number of statements, and even samantha power, the, the chief of us agent as estates of this, to congress. the, this is a, from unfolded and so i think investment pending voice is that's not a voice that has anything to gain any extra growing but as an independent voice stating what is the current situation on the ground. yeah. given all of that international pressure on this disable, how do you think is what it is going to respond? the international court of justice has given israel until saturday to show how it will ensure the safety of palestinians, you know, clean at alpha. how much pressure as a further pressure is as well on the now and how do you expect it to respond? and i think what we're really doing is what we've done in the past present the evidence of the hundreds of trucks would be very long in the fact that we don't have it for egypt and allow it in with now allowing to shipping effect be moving,

urging the spelling population to move out of arrows before we have tech. that's not how you do jennifer. yeah, mr. st. louis, what about that when you the 100 good to you misplace for i'll just listen for people to me about but absolutely not lights. while it's not saving their lives when the united nations, when various humanitarian organizations are saying that they are being killed when they are trying to sleep, they are killed when they get to wherever they've been told to go to and on to hundreds of trucks that you say as well as allowing in, i mean, the united nations has said that doesn't need 500 trucks a day. that's very rarely happens since october 7th. you can probably count on one hand, the number of times that's happened. so again, how is israel going to respond to what the united nations to and to international humanitarian organizations and the united states?

it's biggest ally is saying about things like the lack of aide and that is world has no plan for the safe evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people that offer what do you, i'd say, just as we want. they want us to present the plans for that, creating the welfare i've been working on it. what we've done so falls wouldn't be protecting roles with goals will be move the population out and they was saved by this. and it strange to accuse as well as moving population about it should be about 10 when population does bell and the speak of the casualties. i don't know. is that correct or not, but they don't include the how most tell is if you look at the state, because this will be strange, is it the only people have been killed have been civilians. and in fact, the realities that over 10000 over 10000, the towers were killed in action and they continue already to fight. but i wonder what, who gets the, i wonder what you are now mark tall? yeah, i mean, i wonder what you're basing that 10000. what are you basing that 10000 him off?

you know, you say how most terrorists killed because it's not just the us state department, but it's even, you know, publications like one of the world's most reliable medical journals, the lancet human rights watch. use the figure is by how mazda is health ministry for the civilian for the casualties, including the number of women showed an elderly which make up 60 percent missed order. let me bring you in on up on what you're hearing so far about the pressure on israel to respond. i was to be honest, i don't think that israel has really felt enough respond enough pressure to respond in the way most of the world wants it to, which is to stop the mass slaughter of palestinian civilians. the evidence is overwhelming and we just heard in the past 24 hours from the palestinian direct crescent that 40 percent of the people they've treated in the past days have been

people who were forced to evacuate to what is real calls safe areas and what are those safe areas, they are either sand dunes, the area that it's called as my law see no infrastructure, no water, no food, no medical services or time eunice, which has been reduced to rubble and turned into a mass grave, where a children, women, and medical staff were found bound, tortured and executed. so there isn't the kind of pressure that you would expect is not present. i think the american administration is finding it harder and harder to justify where it stands on this, but it still has its eye on november and its trying. i think in many ways to balance between was holding onto the support of its base was that overwhelmingly wants to do this work to stop. and also trying to not upset the traditional elements of the democratic party who are the donors of the biden

administrative sions. re election campaign in all by these legacy has a being formulated to be one of our political failure and certainly complicity in the eyes of many in his own party to stop what is happening and goes up to apply enough pressure on yeah, on nothing yahoo to see, is beautiful, how sensitive and to allow humanitarian assistance. and to mr. cabman america's don's tone towards as well, has certainly changed since the war and gaza began, especially, you know, in the last month with bite and even saying that, you know, withholding an um shipment, saying that american weapons that as well as using american weapons to kill civilians but i want to just how vulnerable as the international court of justice to political sentiment, or to political influence on these things that the court will be considering and making its ruling. well,

i think the 1st point is that as lawyers we have to place our trust in, in both courts being independent and acting in partially been any matter before them. and even the, the internal court of justice, which obviously is the, is the highest cost for both the drive nations. we have to put our trust in that colt to deliver a decision. and that is just based on the evidence. i'm sorry, the fall, that is what we have seen. we have not seen of bound to pressure. we have seen it making very measured decisions. of course, those of us that stand on one side want to see it doing much, much more. and we want to see it actually ordering a ceasefire. an ordering is or out to withdrawal or military operations as goals. of course, we want to see that i would like to give a very strong ruling generation to this. and then when we looked at the pressure

from other states, what are the one of the concerns we have is the, is the completely irrational, a position that's taken by states as far as the opposite made in respect to the train and the honors of making perspective israel, and that, that is, that is more calls the changing position that we're seeing now, certainly from united states and other european nations, is based on what we all see. the fact that some more than 35000 people have been killed. that let's, let's say that the, the argument of $10000.00 is correct. but with that fingers plucked from but let's say that that's correct. so 25000 civilians that have been killed. many of the women and children don't take no part in this. and we're told that israel has the ability to carry or talk to the military operations. it is. no, it is. it is destroying garza, it is forcing palestinians, right? and when, when we talk about the warning sign is,

and those of us that practice is actually monitored and will not reserves. the fact that you give a warning opportunity for people to leave does not give you cop launched to then literally bomb and destroy the error of what we see is must have cause i hope this is completely destroyed and helpful. and then we say 6700000 civilians been forced into an area where they are as we, as we see facing assignment. so i think that is, was cause the and central community to change his position because yeah, it is contributing to the situation on the front or something. let's just say, well how, how is, is real concerned about the international community? you know, as mr. cabman says like changing its position as well is growing more isolated on the will stage. is it concerned the 1st,

i also hope the court will be impartial. i hope the president, the quote was 11. would it be impartial? i hope so. secondly, the united states complete the support as well to aim to drive, destroyed the military bunch of hum us, cuz they don't weight them and they're worried about civilian casualties. and as we all have a civilian casualties of homes as well, we do every day make every effort not to kill civilians because clearly it's a p all treatment for how much. when somebody use a killer, they don't, they don't care that bill shelters. but as somebody has not been with her, her mind, i'm from aust headboard, as many talked. but that's why i just but i also have to say, you know, how moss has said many times over and over. and again, since october 7th, that every civilian casualties is a tragedy for them. and i don't actually know how you can say civilian casualties are a tragedy for, as well when it's killing more than 35000 people, at least 60 percent of the women children and the elderly of us tell you it's

a legitimate question. i'll tell you why. when he killed civilians and civilians are killed in the fighting, then come back. it's a p. uh, a asset for homos. it homes us. we're aware of that. be the humanitarian movies whatsoever, particularly therefore, how much does not move it? civilians out it has not to show where couldn't the where couldn't reason too much to say on them, but you also legitimate question. it built underground comments present on a tow is not for any civilians. so because of what they haven't been taking any efforts to build west, we bill shelters possibly. and therefore we, we took on prison that said ethics to offend. when sending me dumbs, get millions of phone calls to people move out because we're again, the question is we're about to when the united nations has built many shelters and gaza, most of which have been boned by the single one. right?

so the united nations has a city nice and the dog, and israel has bombed most of the we don't have very long left in the program in this order. i'd like to come back to you with a very important point that you made earlier. i want to go back to that because as well cannot, of course continue this one god without the support of america both militarily and diplomatically. we didn't see the ruling, we didn't see the hearing in january. have any impact on america support as well. do you see that changing now or the domestic politics in america? do you see them store to something international sentiment? a look, i think 2 things are happening on the one hand, a americas policy is being isolated in europe, which is an important ally. and so the pressure is coming from there because the, it's public opinion in europe and many governments in europe are moving towards a point where they are telling the americans that this policy is simply untenable.

we cannot continue to support it, and this will cost us at an upcoming elections. we saw that in, in the u. k, where the position of the government did costs the ruling at tories, a lot of seats, and we will see it in other places. most likely we've seen the student inc complements and so on. and so there will be pressure applied on the, by the administration from that direction, which is very significant. them, there's still the domestic political aspect involved. i think the, you know, washington will be the last one standing, but it will become very difficult for european countries to continue allowing israel to get away with that. and that's why we saw spain not allowing a shipment of arms and munitions to even dark. and it's sport on its way to israel, right? countries understand that they have responsibilities. they understand that this case is that the court because diplomacy has failed because the politicians are

playing politics with the palestinian peoples blood. and that is simply an untenable policy position. at this point miss or day we run out of time, but i want to thank all of our guests for today's discussion that is totally cabinet in london. not audit in my la and robbie's table in west jerusalem. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website on to 0 dot com. that's a further discussion to go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at a inside story for me, elizabeth put on and the whole team here, 5 to now the the,

this is also sarah and dirty. you navigate over the chest on your world headlines. fee is really army, is intensifying its air and ground to tax on the north to the south of the gaza strip. palestinians are morning at least 31 people who were killed in an overnight striking a house unless laid off for a few g comes women and children were among the dead and injured. and they were taken to a hospital which was struggling to cope and according model at all a that's not something that i constantly hear stories from survivors who were pulled from under the rubble. but this is a 1st.