as the palestine an unprecedented track down intensified. they're putting a target on my back there say, here's your person, go get her fault lines investigates the mechanisms of suppression and the implications for academic freedom. universities who embrace diversity when it's for palestinian right, you're suspended, you're investigated. you're shut down the palestine exception on a does either an ultimatum for the is really prime minister war cabinet member been against, threatens to quickly unity government. if benjamin netanyahu fails to present a post floor plan for gaza by june the 8th. what could this mean for the war and for netanyahu's political feature, this is inside store the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm several then yay! a new crisis for benjamin netanyahu at a time when public anger against his handling of the war on gaza is rising. with each passing week, senior minister benny gas is threatening to quit the israel's coalition. government, isn't it? yeah. who doesn't come up with a plan for the strips post for governance within 3 weeks, kansas tabled his own goals which include an international coalition to administer guns and civil affairs. and that has put in at yahoo in a tough spot. accepting the suggestions put forward by gans could cost netanyahu to support the far right coalition partners and therefore the top of his government. so how will the deepening divisions in the war cabinet affects his coalition? and what could they mean for the future of israel's war and guns i which has already killed more than $35000.00 palestinians. will discuss these questions with our panel and just a moment 1st. so this reports by if to some good food. what does a postwar garza look like? that's the question. dividing israel's war cabinet. law fighter jets tanks and

ground troops intensified. they were sold on the strip. senior minister and war cabinet member been against, has issued an ultimatum condition called me the head cook, different cookies. if we are to continue to fight side by side, the cabinet must, by june the 8th proven action plan that will lead to the realization of 6 strategic goals. bring back the hostages top of the role of how most and ensure is rarely secure to control over the gaza strip it for a retired general and long time. political arrival of benjamin netanyahu gans has threatened to withdraw his centrist party from the emergency unity and government, unless the prime minister presents a plan for gods as future. and governance that, that'd be quoted, decided to establish an american european arab and palestinian administration that will manage the strip and lay the foundation for an alternative authority that is not from us. and does not my mood,

abbas. it echoes the government's intention to exclude both from us and the palestinian authority from power in gaza after the war. the prime minister rejected the plan saying it would amount to as well as the feet. and these tablets meant of a palestinian state, a reluctance, some analysts say, has little to do with the proposal itself because there is not the difference between him and the to know the issue. indeed we go for for elections. it's going to be less the, the intricacies of the strategic agenda, and more on the question off, who is the leader? that is really, it's, it's a political game much more than a statistical competition. the opposition has long blamed internal discord on the time. yeah. who's concessions to his fall? right? coalition partners. there's a lot of smoke trips, and it's a mar, been career with support is seen as vital to his political survival.

the government is also under increasing public pressure. tens of thousands of protests was gathered intel of eve on saturday, as they have done every week some months. calling for the safe return of the captives and really elections with more than a 100 cap is still held in garza and hundreds of thousands of palestinians displaced yet again. doubts are growing about the military strategy within 7 months into this floor. and with the troops facing fused resistance in jamalia and area, israel previously said had been cleared of palestinian fighters. nathaniel who stated goals, the total elimination of from us seems far from being achieved. if to some good food, ultra 0 inside story. the . okay, let's go to our guess now in tel aviv or the gore and is the cause of it is really whose remains are being held by palestinian fighters in gaza. rudy is also

a filmmaker and photographer from london. we are joined by you'll see michael berg associated fellow in the middle east and north africa program at the u. k. think tank chatham house and also intel of is along the l. a former is really diplomat. thank you. all of you gentlemen for joining us on the program, where do i want to start with you? if you want, what benny gan swats at least in part, right, which is returned. the captives course currently being held in gaza, returned into israel. whether they are alive, whether they are dead, that includes the remains of your cousin who was killed on october the 7th. so how do you feel about gaps is ultimatum the net. now, it's saying that it should have been done a long time ago and to be accurate. i think in order to really understand what the families are going through. you know, it's not the remains of my cousin. it's actually my, the body of my cousin did as not being properly buried and is really society in

jewish culture. there is a great significance to disclosure and it's not, it's not just us. i think for most people in the world there it's, it's, you know, it's not just skin and bones that are being held hostage in gaza. and i think that disclosure is something that is speak to would not be done. would be a bleeding wound in israel, a society for ages to come for generations to come to. i think the guns should have made this statement a long, long time ago because we have been in stagnation for far too long. there haven't been an achievement. neither in the waterfront nor on the de hostage deal front, and he is a part of it. he joined this government in order to influence from within. and so

far we have been 5 months with absolutely no movement on the hostage fund in no real achievements on you know, the, the bringing down some us goals. so they need to just take leadership. and i hope that once he's done last night is a major step in that direction. well, we're going to try to understand exactly what it is that, that he did with this ultimatum and break down the politics of this alone. let me come to, you know, who has ignored the us president, he has ignored wave after wave of his really protesters. what's to say he's not just going to ignore many against the main points and the furnace between us and the time you all know offers, guns was the discussion, the public discussion no use way regional now international

the everybody else is there is no point to discuss the one i don't know what to say, hey, let's, let's see how these morehouse and this stuff do they offices? this is a big, big issue. this was also the secondary sure. all these they, all the discussion will is the by the wrong few to do the see she and the he's big you. oh wow, clint berry, this is really, really the go go the street. so i did this is what the east west lives, especially then you know, gone, you know, the, the, so you see big boss and the can easily and

honestly the, to the same point. okay. well, slow down there because i think that's something i, i really want the layout for viewers. you say, as i know, a gas can not bring down the netanyahu government. i do have a few questions about that. i want to probe this a little further. we're going to talk about day after and big picture. we'll do that in a moment. first, i want to talk about the, the, the politics and the mechanics of it. you'll see if dense does indeed execute his threat to quit the unity government. what happens? but if it doesn't play fatal is a need to have the ability because it is set they 6 types. yeah, i think we need to pay attention next. it to one that the international community is less thing to those, but the extra can bring that down to governments, was the issue of mobilizing it will talk to those into the military. but basically

it's, they got the call ition statements statement of $64.00, supposed to spend off kinetzer. you know, you need 6144 for the site for the majority in days or at least mess it to the 64 together with the 5. so you know what happens if the consolidates the coordination because the differences between between, between the 5 and what's gotten send the got the eyes and code fairly presents though, we'd still add a new that there is a paper saying difference between what that and the l says and what the guns he's saying, but the principles of this government can, can continue. i think we also need to pay attention to us for a 2nd. i want to highlight, i just want to highlight the, just a 2nd. i want to highlight the math that you brought up there, which is that without against is national unity party. benjamin net. yeah. who has what he had before october 7th before the war. he still has a majority of seats in parliament. you mentioned 64, a 120 seats in the class that he has 64 members of his coalition. and that's enough

to stay in power. so you're saying if gas takes is 12 seats changes, nothing, is that what you're saying? the idea. i so i would the, unless those few brave and other members of may, so it either for me to quote and that's why i mention got on the toilet or the challenge that clean it then you know, last week or are those are things we're seeing is on coming at all the coordination, although we'll talk to dogs to say enough is enough, is what our lives actually is in boy, it's in, in a never ending lo and in front of the i, c j. and, you know, embody refi cc may be issued out of this world, and then we need, we need to go and ask the people, actually what they won't after this whole, the 7 months would that it's a possibility. it's a possibility that these governments would continue discrimination wouldn't govern fully lifestyle the. okay, let me take that to ody, then who do you heard

a lot and you'll see explain regardless of this threat, the likelihood is that uh any gains can not bring down this government even if he withdraws his support for even if he quits the unity government so you're telling us a moment ago, i wish this had been done sooner. but the question is, what's the point if it doesn't alter the policies of this government and if it doesn't bring down the government, then what's it for? as well. luckily or unluckily, you know, politics is not just a math game. so right now with in is really society. the fact that they are a part of this government gives credibility. because if you look at the polls within is the, is really public. the most people about 70 percent of people, that's a recent pull. i've seen seeing that then, you know, as motivated by his own political interests as not by the interest of the, of the general good israel. and therefore, once they are not there,

this will be somewhat of a queue for the is really public to say. all right, this government has completely lost credibility. there is no one within it that you actually trust. and this means to the public, out in the streets. this means out to us the hostage family. but we also have high hopes with believing that they are their guns in iceland codes are there in order to make sure that the hostage deal is struck. and once they are not. ready they are, the credibility of this government will completely be lost in with, in light of what you'll see is just mentioned the, the major issue of drafting the ultra orthodox into the military. that's something that might be a major issue for the government. and so what might i want to make sure i get this right? you're saying you're saying, okay, the electro math doesn't immediately change. if again,

to leave the unity government. however, that could turbocharged protests against the government and descent against the government within is really society. and that could change the political landscape . is that we're saying it's more than that. it's more than that because i use, as mentioned, garland, to administer the defense that has the lovely spoke against nathan, you know, the chief of staff is speaking against the fact that the district war does not have an in the game. and it puts soldiers at trask and this is a far larger issue than just the hostages or just the political game, or whether or not this, this government will be toppled by them leaving. because this is long as a war is it means to an end. and as long as there is no end, and this is a voice, but it's now being heard more and more, including by the top people that the minister of defense and the chief of staff pro,

say out loud. if you don't have a discussion about the day after, if you don't have an in game in mind, then we are fighting for nothing. been soldiers are dying for nothing. in this, for me as a cousin of a hostage, that aligns with exactly the same goal that i'm asking. because as long as there is no solution, my cousin will not be brought back to burial in israel. so these interests are aligned with our interest, the hostage families. we want a plan and we want to know how this government is not just fighting endlessly, soldiers are dying, hostages or dying. the country is in a dire position at this point, internationally, economically, politically. we want to have a plan, the nation of israel, the people of israel want a plan. okay. so, so you're raising the same issue that,

that was the 1st thing that alon said, which is the day after, right? that's the, that's the huge question here. i want to just lay out for a viewers. the 6 strategic goals that gets says he wants netanyahu to address as before, june the 8th. so 6 goals, one is return to hostages. that's the 1st thing that have a plan to how for how to return these really captives were currently in gaza, whether they are dead or alive. that was number one. number 2 was create an international coalition with europeans, americans, arab countries, and palestinians to manage civilian affairs in gaza. number 3 was over, throw home us rule and demilitarize. gaza to ensure is really control of the gaza strip number for he wanted a plan from netanyahu on returning his release. we have been displaced specifically north and israel, displaced by cross border fighting with has bullet number 5 was promote the

normalization of ties with saudi arabia. which we know is really something is real cabinets and number 6 was an adopt both of you. 2 of you have mentioned this adopt and outline for military service. for all is really, is you mentioned that already draft so that the ultra orthodox we currently many of whom are exempt from military service. there are many with it is really society who feel that they should share the burden for taking part in combat and, and joining the military. so those are the 6 points of the plan alone. is there anything in this plan? the benjamin netanyahu can engage with to say, to benny ganz. here you are, here's my vision. it is. yes. i think it all depends on the, you know, and the issue that he was for himself, the jew nice day, he knows that he's gone for the band and all this for you right

there to sell the site, the x 3. right? and we got a phone and we do route why song and brought it to the gate is the best way to go. so because a, the, the got way is the, as long as we are, the kind of really se, try is the, she creates the, all, she won't be as you want. i want to say, e, g o y, all the way is the day off. with the sounds like a wishlist for a loan rather than a plan. you know, buying from gas just sounds like just, i mean neither the europeans nor the americans,

nor any of the countries in the region have said that they have any appetite for this kind of a, for being involved in administering the gaza strip. to the stage to say is we have the stage cost to the price to be uh, he can go and then goss, i promise you island wiggs cecilia. stress story involving base learning. probably the so i'm not seeing a big thing to do, but we see that the really isn't personally before, but the also legal was the one of the all the for a bomb i'm doing so there's been rejected this way. so many people are all

the but the really heavy by the good news thoughts you'll see isn't isn't as discussion on the day after and finding who might help administer gaza and whether would be i'm us, whether it would be palace, senior authority, bearing in mind that the major players here want neither isn't all of this kind of tinkering around the edges with the really big question being a sort of longer term vision. do you see? does israel see a place for a palestinian state? yes or no. benjamin netanyahu has said no. the extreme, the, the extreme right and his government has said no, but until you move in that direction, you know what they're talking about with the these, these coalitions of europeans and arabs. it sounds like it, it, it, it, it doesn't sound super realistic at this point. in time to you up so that they

collect their wish list is a wish list. know, given the day the show as fun signal manufacturing is solved. yeah. they have yeah, this is a price solar is lied to the at. and the supplies so easily when big fluids not only from us, which can be understandable, but they exclude the p a and the p. a no formula. i mean, and i mean guys, us talking about to minute to the control, basically off a oh of gaza and no mention in any shape of full of abuse process, let alone they base that gaming based on the 2 state solution. if you, if you us care solved. yeah, that'd be a, there's a go back to the peace agreement and to be able to live at peace solely football is of and the end they've been able to clear ation of 2000 things to which test it by the state and 2 state solution which entails it by the state and state, and then they can discuss the organization with the rest of them. a list include include the interviewing,

saudi arabia. there is nothing full are the kinds of new york in the region that talk them to this kind of, of, of a fish least knowing that the next day shouldn't be. and not the finance, the construct 2 of the guys and then in the midst of a few years in the finance because the no one deals with the causes of the incident by the state in conflict is establishing one state to exist already. but also establishing it by the state and state. who do i wonder, you, you go to the protest. i assume most saturday evenings to hostage families, protests and, and tell of eve, is there a discussion uh, within that community of about these really big a longer term issues, palestinian statehood, etc. and is there is anybody connecting, connecting those dots, you know, your immediate concern of returning hostages and the long term big picture of what to do with 2 people on one land. or of course,

there is because i think most of the families now understand that these are all tied of the 6 points, the guns as made. and you detailed 5 of them including the hostages, including the people going back to northern israel. they all have to do with the discussion of the day after get the ball has to do with getting into a deal in finding a resolution to this conflict. and it doesn't have to be right now. we've mentioned, you know, the worst case. and we've mentioned long term solutions, which i'm sure many israelis would love to hear about. but even if we speak short term, and you've mentioned that nobody's willing to touch this topic, especially the saudis of expressed interest. you know, in being the patrons on this part of the land, but they will not come here if they think that next year, whatever money they put in would be bombarded from the year. and i can totally

understand this. so as long as it is, we don't speak about the day after and a solution to this conflict. i will not see my cousin. this is as clear as day, and i think that most families understand this, however, and that's a big however, we, as the hostage families, only care about one thing and that is getting our loved ones back. how is this achieved? what should the strives for? what's going to be written in disagreement that's out of our mandate, but we do understand that unless this is being spoken about, that our loved ones will not be back. this is all tied to, all of these topics are tied together. do you have specific demands that hostage families, i mean, do they have specific demands relative to the rough operation? that is happening right now. a israel has pushed out 6 to 700000 palestinians,

out of rafa in, in southern gaza. the argument of the netanyahu government is this military pressure is what's going to get the hostages back. what are the hostages families saying about that? because that's the here. and now we at this point are actually saying that this is not true. once the rock for military operation will be over, it will be in the exact same place we were and we would still have to strike a deal. we would still have to negotiate with some us we would still have to, you know, pay for the something in north negligence and the disaster of october 7th. and this would put us the hostage valley is the exact same place. only that the roof of alteration poses its significance thread not only to the lives of the soldiers finding there,

but also to the lives of the hostages that are being held there. so we fully understand that it will not make any significant change in the upcoming negotiations. following rafa. okay, a lot of we don't have a lot of time left on the show. um, what are the next moves that our viewers should be looking out for? the ball is in netanyahu's court to a large extent gaps has issued an ultimatum net. yeah. who has already started to say, we're not interested because that would be the defeat of i'm us still low. he's got 3 weeks and he's got the june 8th deadline. what are you looking at for a d g issue now days the last time? well, mass, especially the initial rental initial balance for the after d, a r, to reboot about

a senior stay. now, the initial goal stays going this way. probably this is be some other way, but most of the, the work is dealing with these people. and the last place to be swayed correctly. so ok, be still in the discussion. i use the goals we both say when you pull the log in and we cannot solve the problem. okay. and that will be the last word for today. i want to thank all our guests for their time, their perspective today. rudy gordon, you'll see michael bird and alon. yo and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that's alpha 0 dot com for further

discussion. go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash 8 inside story. you can also join the conversation on x or handle. there is as a jake inside story. for me. so then yeah, and the whole team here in doha, by hearing the sharp populations of decline, 70 percent, understanding the reality, i just placed it and floated out to see what was changed across the world. when you come to the house at the story unique perspective, why is it the doctors don't get to have a saying any of the medical workforce has been so and devalued by the british government for such a long time on hub voices. tick tock had been a place for organizing politically, for getting people to vote for getting people to protest, connect with our community and tap into conversations you weren't find elsewhere.

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and increases systems. costs on ridgecrest, the is in fake fault and the heavy ray and the rescue workers are racing against time to find a precedent. abraham receipt of his headed cup to crash, the remote mountain. this region rainy and state media says drones deep, so i didn't search for the missing helicopter detected a heat source that needs to be the science of the crash, the voluntary johnston. this is i'll just hear a lot from the whole set coming up. oh yeah. what did you get your big.