[000:00:00;00] news . ringback the, the international criminal court top prosecute. so 6 arrest warrants for his wally, i'm from us leaders. the united states was condemned to move against its allies. but really i see things action deeper as well as international isolation for its for on gaza. this is inside story,

the hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian. instead of going to me 7 months of was more than $35000.00 palestinians killed and widespread destruction of the densely populated guns a strip, the international criminal courts to prosecute to says that is really prime minister, benjamin netanyahu and defense minister your go on, that criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity. the ground cited by a come out of hong include starvation of civilians has a method of wolf app, intentionally directing attacks against civilians and willful killing. con is also applied for arrest warrants for 3, how much leaders for the october 7th attack on israel. so what does this mean for the demonstration on concept of how does legal pressure 1st and the genocide case of the instructional court of justice and now at the i c. c. impact the realities on the ground. we'll put that to i guess, to the moment, but 1st

a report from oracle. some should have president joe biden's sounding by is one us preston. joe biden has told these rejected the decision by the prosecutor of the international criminal court to seek arrest warrants against is fairly prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and his defense, mister hugh of cologne, is the 1st time the r. c. c has sought. the rest of the top us ally r c. c prosecutor, cream con is also seeking the rest of 3. how mostly does for the october 7th, the tech already was very wide. there is no privilege between israel and i'm us it's clear isn't was all do all can to ensure submitting protection b i. c, c prosecutor says, this evidence to show that nothing yahoo, i'm go on the criminal responsibility for crimes. and also in the past 7 months,

the mazda attack on his wife killed about 1200 people on october 7th, and is to as well. and also since has more than $35.00 pounds of palestinians, the crimes include starvation of civilians as a method of wolf, i wilfully causing great suffering. serious injury to body or health or cruel treatment. also killing or murder, unintentionally directing attacks against a civilian population. as well as crimes against humanity of extermination, and all matter. persecution, the allegations of crimes of committing other in human acts. nothing yahoo condemned what he called an outrageous position, accusing the i c. c of anti semitism, the prosecutors of surcharges against being as well as the defense minister. i'm really an attempt to deny as well the basic right of self defense. and i assure you

one thing this attempt will utterly fail. come off is also rejected to prosecute his decision to seek arrest borton's against its leaders. accusing putting con of 28 plate victims with the execution of the i. c. c decision has ended, some palestinians, and casa, the we condemned the decision. how much and gaza is a resistance, and the resistance will never give up. it's loud outlined is occupied. we can't just leave it like that as well on the us on north members of the i. c. c, which was formed in 2002. the palestine is a member and the code has the power to investigate what crime is committed on the touch feet of any of its members states. 3 while a panel of judges at the i c. c, we consider the prosecutors request with us walgreens as well spaces for the international isolation as opposed to use it's months long lenses bombardment of

gaza essentially, i'll just see the inside story. that's bringing, i guess for today's discussion. joining us here in the ha is diana book to a promise to the lawyer and legal analyst from london with joined by daniel levy, president of the us middle east project. so the full member of the official is really delegation is to peace talks with the palestinians of talbot and also from amsterdam. we're joined by kate, macintosh, executive director of the university of california, los angeles law schools promise institute for shoot and rights europe. she previously served at the international criminal tribunal is for the former yugoslavia and rewind, welcome to you. ok. let's stop with you. what's the significance of this move by the i see, see from your perspective, having worked on the instructional criminal tribunals for the, for the dyslexia and when the white, the cutting con, go public. but his intention to seek these arrest for and so not wait until late

actually been issued. well, i think i read 2 possible reasons for bob's one is that he's hoping to have an impact on what's happening on the ground. so he's released these arrest warrants, please be sure that that will impact the conduct suppose to disease or possibly the situation of the hostages. and the other is that he's hoping to have an impact on the impression of the integrity of his institution. i think it's very important that he released these requests. i think it's important for those of us that care about accountability and international justice that we see that he was united to certain extent brave enough to take this step. okay, is it a full conclusion to face arrest warrants will be issued. the most costs, the pre trial chambers. i'm sure everyone knows by now. we'll be looking to see whether the material that's being submitted with the application does establish

reasonable grounds to believe that the clients have been committed. but it's very unlikely that the prosecutor would have not submitted adequate support for his request. he knows that lies will be on him, and it's a relatively low threshold. and that has to be met at this stage. you may even submit summaries of evidence. essentially, the doctors won't just look at the elements of each crime alleged. i'm see whether material has been submitted, which would, which would, if proved to pull each element. so it's a relatively nice, i show them. i think we can see that it's probably likely to be granted. diana, as a palestinian lawyer, what strikes you about the way that these applications were made? i think that there's a lot of both sides of something that is happening here and while and definitely happy to see that is rarely meters are being held to account. i think that there is both a question on both sides of them where they're doing both have mass and israel is

a and to his release as well as the list of charges, particularly against i guess these realities there have been so many issues that have been omitted, for example, torture is not one of the issues that has listed against that in the hour and, and against kalonde. even though we've seen that more than 27 palestinians have been killed in custody. and we have these videos as well as testimony of intuitive jewels who have been subjected to torture, as well as so who's who have done the torturing with all. so that's been an admitted, is that the issue of genocide as well? and so wow, this is definitely a good start and it's fine it's, it's taken far too long to get to this point. i do think that he has engaged in a little bit of both sides of them and also the, the, the no mention of the occupation if i know there is definitely no context provided in this at all. so no mention of the occupation,

no mention of anything that's happened before october of 2023. and as we know, this occupation is gone on for, for more than half a century. and the fact that there's simply hitting the start clock on october rather than the start clock, which is when, when palestine actually signed onto the i. c, c is very telling and so there is lacking context is lacking depth. but again, i think is very important because for all these years israel has been able to get away with literally murder and, and so the fact that we're finally seeing that one of these international institutions is beginning to hold. that's now and go launch accountable is actually a good 1st start. i hope it continues beyond this, and i hope we see not just indictments but so much more than that. in order for this genocide to finally come to an end for the world to finally stop israel's genocide. tony olivia, what are your thoughts on this?

well, i think what we've seen thus far is possible. real reluctance on the part of the i c. c. 2 way and as deanna said, that all the cases related to this space related to previous assaults on dogs that relate to, to israel site crimes of sacrament instead of a still pending. i'm just fine. that's huge reluctance. here we all, with the court making the recommendation for these arrests once i'd probably, and i think we should acknowledge this, this could be a knock on effect from what we've already seen. a few international court of justice from south africa, bringing that case from what the justice is going for in the provisional measures. but it's also a function of a c d n reality that we've seen come out of goss, i'm. yeah, one of the things that i would point out is that these rules,

friends and allies have been saying to it. you know, what we're trying to wrong comes up for you. why are you making the so difficult? at least let more of this humanitarian stopping. so you called the, under the microscope, legally for the crime of full starvation. israel has acted with the kind of hubris and arrogance can only come with a level of impunity where they expect me to carry on working. and they're looking at this as a wait a minute on the front. so need some attention supposed to stop the i c c from doing this. when okay, maybe they didn't yesterday or the day before, but now this will kick in the will be fine of why this is so important. is it, it's a challenge to that. impunity, this doesn't change things overnight. there's no silver puts, but when it's released initially, notice it mo, question, but it's a question of pragmatism, an advocacy stall. the question is b,

i c c can go off through all the just if companies and now say should we make that investment in tele, beef or somewhere else or more, keeps going to be more open to us. all weapon is going to keep flowing all research and develop a university corporation is always going to continue as if nothing has happened with adults is that intuitive challenge and the cost benefit equation looks different then we might actually see a change. so i think the most important message coming out is who lives who are working to push impunity and accountability and to change that structure. we double your efforts because they are beginning to walk kate, to what extent are international law on the reputation of the legal bodies that are supposed to uphold it at stake? of all, i think very much say, i think in this whole situation, i think i got going back to the i c, j,

a provisional measures decision and much daniel test referenced, i think that was a collective holding up press before that decision as well because you know there isn't comprehension, that's the i c, j wouldn't be as impartial as it. i believe it's demonstrated itself to be wouldn't just apply the little and, and come out with a kind of decision it gauge. and i think that's been a similar feeling around the i c t y. i mean, we know about all the precious apple. it's a bad one. these institutions on the, you know, the geopolitical realities that walking. and i think it's very important that i seem to be, to some extent, i mean, as far as possible, impartial. that's what that in time legitimacy, russell. and i'd like to come back on the 2 sides in a point. if i may, i don't disagree with anything that was said, but i would like to point out that i think it would have been impossible for cream con, to issue indictments against any one policy to these complaints. and in fact, the framework of international international humanitarian knowing particular, the lowest of will,

is one which just click on its policies to the conflict. as you know, the parties of the conflict in any motivation for fighting is irrelevant in the time that little. so it's, it has this leveling fact for anyone who's fighting for whatever reason the, the question of a, just or otherwise. but it would volunteer each other party. it's adults by and of course explain it. phones by both in this case is irrelevant. the point is, once you're in a conflict, you have to abide by these rules. so he has applied the rules. i would say he's chosen the offences that he is nice to everything else got conviction full. so i think he's probably followed the evidence. i think things like the, the non, if humanitarian assistance has such an old piece, one and the other one has picked. of course, with regard to the use writing forces is the indiscriminate or exciting to deliberate targeting civilians. and my sick days. probably the 2 most easy to produce and that's why he's gone in that direction. genocide, as we know, is an extremely high threshold, very difficult and i could tie him up for

a month and he might not be successful. we might see those charges coming down the line, but i think it's not surprising that he issued the charges he to issue against these radius are these i think similarly, the ones have against the have mass need is what we put it on to the pages and i think it would have been quite impossible for him to procedures against any one party. diana had asked them, out of the withdrawal of the migration is cleaning up the i. c. c's, prosecute, who was equating the victim with the execution. now, what do you make of of that response? what will the people of guns and the occupied palestinian temperatures make of it? so we've been as palestinians, we've been waiting for industry international institutions to check in for as long as, as a israel has taken over our country and taken over our land. and we haven't yet seen that these international institutions do anything. so this house to me is we're always told that we must resort to the law and we have many times whether

that was in 2004 at the i c j. whether again before is really courts, which it, we've always been told we have to use, which are obviously not usable to everything from now. the, i see, and so on. policies have always put their faith in these international institutions . and yet, it's the same answer to international institutions that have actually failed pals finance. and so this is why you're hearing the response that you're hearing. but on the issue of both sides, which i, what i, which i want to pick up on is this wasn't just a question of, of putting a labeling allegations against both sides. but it's a question of which of the, of the issues were picked up on when it came to him us, there were suddenly 8 allegations when it came to israel, only 7. and yet we have this evidence of what it is that israel's been doing this. and they made it blatantly obvious, and they've actually been projecting it for the past 280 days. so it's not that they've kept it secret, as daniel said they've been,

it's been very loud and very proud about this genocide that they're committing. and even though the world has, has been telling israel, comet down comment down is real fuels and bold and to do whatever it is that it wants to do. and so now is palestinians were saying, well, if these institutions actually mean anything, you are going to be the ones that are going to stop this genocide because laughter, it's own devices. israel's not, it's going to continue to push on ahead because it's been given a green light by the world community. daniel, let's talk about reaction from the as really side then. uh, providence to nothing. yeah. who said the challenge is an attempt to deny israel the basic right of self defense, the con is poor and gasoline on the fires of anti semitism that a raging across the world. how much of a, a blow to his administration was this? so let's look at a couple of things assessable this appeal to the outside world. is it against us? my friends, this fits very comfortably with me. complet safety,

mental math that he's riley's, have it has been encouraged to develop when it comes to how do you relate to something like this. so i think the initial response, so we've seen that has been a, b, b, q, richard, resigned. the suckles has been a, a june to find all the rags. some people will say, well, know what the cost on a don. it's going to help not send. yeah, which is a silly thing to say because nothing, yahoo was not on the right of deluxe. the anytime soon he's coalition is stable and it's not for the cool to not make his decision based on that consideration. of course. so i think it is right. you've seen people 1st of all come out against and this is very important because it tells us that this is not just about not so young . the guy who is the other, how to just be the next you to the right party just well visit because upfront again don't, wasn't good enough. the leader of the opposition. yeah. the last page said, when it's 50 agrees to the found the us know, while i was like

a normalization package, then the height will go away. one of these notes. but it's important for that reason that has the slowly sink. see, i'm actually not going to expect thinking he's really will over time question this and you have, of course, had a group of jewish race who have questions which said we have to take this seriously . your goals have palestinian citizens to be sort of taking a different approach on the very intimidating circumstances. deanna will love that better than any one. and then when it comes to the actual conduct of this assault on gaza, what it means, let's be clear, is ro, is going into russell, we're hearing the same stories of the, well, you know, we've done what the americans said. we got the people out of rock come to safety. they've gone to areas where they faced the bombing desk disease, salvation,

insufferable human conditions. i'm pretty sure it's almost like roaming. so these of course, for rest florence of being issued against those 2 individuals, nothing y'all's doing deadlocks. if we cost on minds by only a week, they were longer hands, they were going assets against each other. why? because one would say, hey, we gave you political compet, eugene the chief of military victory. the other was saying, the better treated respect your didn't have a political plan. what is this really about? it's a blank window. blaine james happened. they happened when there was a failure not only on the battlefield, but as we see now, legally, politically marty. reputation of why is this? i have so many reasons why don't you said if your revenue kind of to is to say we're going to have a reset, push things back into a reality of a pol, tightened band to stand by zation, then you have nothing to work with. and so this takes israel's failings in this war to a whole new level,

which of course does nothing to mitigate. how senior suffering bought this morning could lead to that and it could impact the other case that the i c j, the south africa case and the cold for immediate station because of what's happening in case you want to come back on what daniel was just saying that i'd also us extra say that i'm for the blinking said the dakotas overstepped it so far as he here has it. certainly not. no, the quote has not started so far. so you, the prosecutor has authorization to carry out an investigation with the authorization. he proceed the investigation. i think diane is over the voice, the perspective that he took to, you know, i mean that's, that's certainly a position of that, that many people, his house. but he has applied the low to the facts that he was able to uncover in his investigations on these, the shooting diamonds. he has not paid a step to the 3rd to you is who i would say he's fulfilled his monday. okay, what about the argument? lincoln's argument,

the is really legal system should have thoughts but allowed the opportunity to proceed in a full, timely manner has to be drawn rushed. you said both you and diana was pointing out that it's been too slow. how's? he ignored? the principles of compliment parity was blinking, argued a tool that is an important principle in this not to the cool. so it would be, i could to nothing yahoo collapse. oh as well in general to ask for jurisdiction either those cases they would be able to kind not jurisdiction look at that is to say that the i c c, the case would not be admissible as a formal process by which the chamber will look and see what the case is admissible at a later stage. and one of the grants for disability is that the case is not being, you know, prosecute. he didn't investigate in a, in a domestic court, which has jurisdiction. so there is a mechanism for that. the application could be made, but it would have to be really demonstrations that these charges the, or these,

these acts the same acts that form the basis of these challenges. what actually being properly investigated. you can prosecute your denise. i'll find out how much political pressure do you think the court is going to come on the in the coming weeks and months can, can we expect sanctions do you think to be issued against judges and prosecutors are the i c, c, i'm a group of republican senators in the, the u. s. is already one to cool that if it, if it goes up to israel, we will come off to you. what do you make of that? this is the us flexing it's muscle and this isn't the 1st prosecutor that they have tried to strong arm, and i don't think it will be the last one either. so i fully expect that they're going to try to go after cutting hon. i do want to ask you addressed the issue of using the is really courts. and it's important to note that israel long ago passed a law that said that no cases that are inside guys that can actually be tried inside is really courts that the is really military has. clark law should do

whatever it wants. and we've seen this not just in the gaza strip, or we've seen aggression after aggression attack after attack, where israel has not at all been held to account within their own legal system. but we also see it when it comes to soldiers that are given a free hand in the west bank. if you look at the statistics that there are as effectively no mechanism by which to charge soldiers with any crimes and in which to prosecute anybody. for example, we have your colleague the killing of your colleagues 2 years ago should in a block clue who was, who was murdered as she was covering israel's action in jenny and, and to this date. the family still doesn't even know the name of the soldier who killed her, and nobody has been held to account. so there is no system by which is real contrie itself. and so this is just yet another talking point that blinking others keep throwing out a so somehow to kick this out of the international legal system because they know

that what israel's doing is fundamentally illegal under international law. okay, i've got about 2 minutes left. daniel, i want to get another question and indicate, but it's really politicians of course, as you'd expect to run it around and nothing. yeah. who won't go out? what about the is where the public will, how will open rick is riley's feel about the fact that prime minister was the 1st western leader to have had an application for an arrest warrant with the 50 i, c, c. and the fact that it could. so the isolate israel for his war on guns that as well. what we have seen is that these riley's have been treated to a very similar take home every single this happened of the last month. some of these rating media has an awful lot to also for. so i don't think you're going to see a blue cross section of that. probably take a different position. the question that for is, how will this be followed up, not inside israel, but on the outside. and my one comments on that would be that if the west continues to run a couple of full results,

we provide those weapons been don't expect change inside this route. the real challenge here is sure you called a camp in the west, which proud the west is a batch of pride that it is. that is why we keep wants to bring down the international institutional architecture of law. the un, the i, c, c i, c, j to proceed with these. lemme, i will be the rest against the west agenda. i think they will fail, but the question to the supposed to be 0 time, which on a good day place to care about international lower than that institutional architecture and the criminal. ready it's in the us. what is that we should all be willing to continue to pay the costs for running public as well, which is don't through the roof. exponentially installation of that costs the opposite, so far as the yes and the list, unless they change the outgoing to collapse the whole thing around them in order to defend these writing more crimes and the all types of homes finally came up on a minute left. what are the chances of us ever seeing those accused appearing before the international criminal?

oh, that's a difficult one to projects and i would have sold the chances of seeing the mass lead as well. high as and a thing be is right and you need is just because of the, you know, the press a political support might be stronger. but i mean, who knows? we have seen, you know, when the last of which was indicted at the i. c t y, of course he was not in the same position jerry place at k as and i know he got net when middle speech was indicted, it was not clear that he would ever pay before that. and you can stop, you type email. he was also impala, he, you know, was deposed, and he was eventually hand. today's, i mean, there are many factors behind that box, you know, never say never. who knows what lies ahead for nothing. yahoo glance asked in law at how that'd be left handed manufacturing day trip, macintosh dunny levy. and diana bu, to thanks for watching. you can see the program. i get it any time i go into the

websites of all just 0. don't com for further discussion. you can join us on facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story. and of course, you can join the conversational x on handle that at h right inside story from me a very instead of the same here. and so we'll see the there's a deliberate mission of posting in humanity in western and it needs to be questioned . this is not the time to, to mr. kind of way. examining the effect that news coverage can have on democracies everywhere. here at the listening bounced off to the 10 year journey in which it has become the most important translation award from an into the how to rubik language world wide shake come out award for translation and international understanding of dumps is the opening of the nomination period. for the year 2024

starting march 1st to may. 30 fast nominations are made on the award official website w w w dot h t a dot q a forward slash e m. business latest is brought to you while i guess, as i live by on one of your, this makes mazda inflates.

the business latest is free for you. i guess is that an i my on one of your just makes model inflates the, [000:00:00;00] the color, the songs you pay in this is and use our life from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. so you and the agency of a palestinian refugees, it says it's suspending food and deliveries. and rafa on israel step south, it's as strikes on southern garza,

is around orders. seems to quit bends of the associated press to meet were tons of to shut down and use agencies. live camera position overlooking garza exclusive video and matches showing. is there any soldiers taking more than