civilians have you seen the photo, so i didn't. the prosecutor ulton did traditional investigation for disappearance, torture and crimes against humanity in the final part of the series, which is 0 follows the fight for justice through the courts. fairly straightforward in terms of establishing command responsibility as families and a lawyer space, a terrible deal in the search for the truth. the lost souls of syria on algebra. the international criminal court topic prosecute. so 6 arrest warrants for his wally, i'm from us leaders. the united states was condemned to move against its allies, but really i see things action deeper as well as international isolation for its war on gaza. this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian. instead of going, let me 7 months of was more than $35000.00 palestinians killed and widespread destruction of the densely populated guns a strip, the international criminal courts to prosecute to says that is really prime minister, benjamin netanyahu and defense minister your go on, that criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity. the ground cited by a come out of hong include starvation of civilians as a method of wolf app, intentionally directing attacks against civilians and willful killing. con is also applied for arrest warrants for 3, how much leaders for the october 7th attack on israel. so what does this mean for the demonstration on concept of how does legal pressure 1st and the genocide case of the instructional court of justice and now at the i c. c. impact the realities on the ground. we'll put that too on yes to the moment, but 1st a report from oracle. some should have president joe biden's standing by

is one us preston. joe biden has told these rejected the decision by the prosecutor of the international criminal court to seek arrest warrants against is fairly prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and his defense, mister hugh of cologne, is the 1st time the r. c. c has sought. the rest of the top us ally, i c. c. prosecutor, kreme con is also seeking the rest of 3. how mostly does for the october 7th, the tech already was very wide. there is no privilege between israel and i'm off it's clear isn't was all do all can to ensure submitting protection b i. c, c prosecutor says, this evidence to show that nothing yahoo, i'm go on the criminal responsibility for crimes. and also in the past 7 months, the mazda attack on his wife killed about 1200 people on october 7th,

and is to as well. and also since has more than $35.00 pounds of palestinians, the crimes include starvation of civilians as a method of wolf or wilfully causing great suffering. serious injury to body or health or cruel treatment for killing or murder. unintentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as well as crimes against humanity of extermination, handling matter. persecution the allegations of crimes of committing other in human acts. nothing yahoo condemned what he called an outrageous position, accusing the i. c. c of anti semitism. the prosecutors of surcharges against being as well as the defense minister. i'm really an attempt to deny as well the basic right of self defense. and i assure you one thing this attempt will utterly fail.

come off is also rejected to prosecute his decision to seek arrest bolton's against its leaders. accusing putting con of 28 plate victims with the execution of the i. c. c decision has ended, some palestinians, and casa, the we condemned the decision. how much and gaza is a resistance, and the resistance will never give up. it's loud outlined is occupied. we can't just leave it like that as well on the us on north members of the i. c. c, which was formed in 2002. the palestine is a member and the cold has the power to investigate what crime is committed on the touch feet of any of its members states. 3 while a panel of judges at the i c. c, we consider the prosecutors request with us walgreens as well spaces for the international installation as opposed to use it's months long lenses bombardment of gaza essentially,

which is 0. so inside study that spring, and i guess for today's discussion, joining us here in the ha is diana book to a promise to the lawyer and legal analyst from london with joined by daniel levy, president of the us middle east project. so the full member of the official is really delegation is to peace talks with the palestinians of talbot and also from amsterdam. we're joined by cape macintosh, executive director of the university of california, los angeles law schools promise institute for shoot and rights europe. she previously served at the international criminal tribunal is for the former yugoslavia and rewind, welcome to you. ok. let's stop with you. what's the significance of this move by the i see, see from your perspective, having worked on the instructional criminal tribunals for the, for the, this lobby a. and when the white, the cutting con, go public. but his intention to seek these arrest for and so not wait until late actually been issued. well,

i think i read 2 possible reasons for bob's one is that he's hoping to have an impact on what's happening on the ground. so he's released these arrest warrants, please be sure that that will impact the conduct suppose to disease or possibly the situation of the hostages. and the other is that he's hoping to have an impact on the impression of the integrity of his institution. i think it's very important that he released these requests. i think it's important for those of us that care about accountability and international justice that we see that he was united to certain extent brave enough to take this step. okay, is it a full conclusion to face arrest warrants will be issued. the most costs, the pre trial chambers. i'm sure everyone knows by now. we'll be looking to see whether the material that's being submitted with the application does establish reasonable grounds to believe that the clients have been committed. but it's very

unlikely that the prosecutor would have not submitted adequate support for his request. he knows that lies will be on him, and it's a relatively low threshold. and that has to be met at this stage. you may even submit summaries of evidence. essentially the judge is we'll just look at the elements of each crime alleged. i'm see whether material has been submitted, which would, which would, if proved to pull each element. so it's a relatively nice, i show them. i think we can see that it's probably likely to be granted. diana, as a palestinian lawyer, what strikes you about the way that these applications were made? i think that there's a lot of both sides of something that is happening here. and while i'm definitely happy to see that is rarely meters are being held to account. i think that there is both a question on both sides of them where they're doing both have mass and israel is a and to his release as well as the list of charges,

particularly against i guess these realities there have been so many issues that have been omitted, for example, torture is not one of the issues that has listed against that in the hour and, and against kalonde. even though we've seen that more than 27 palestinians have been killed in custody. and we have these videos as well as testimony of intuitive jewels who have been subjected to torture, as well as so who's who have done the torturing with all. so that's been a omitted. is that the issue of genocide as well? and so while this is definitely a good start and it's fine it's, it's taken far too long to get to this point. i do think that he has engaged in a little bit of both sides of them and also the, the, the no mention of the occupation if i know there is definitely no context provided in this at all. so no mention of the occupation, no mention of anything that's happened before october of 2023. and as we know,

this occupation is gone on for, for more than half a century. and the fact that there's simply hitting the start clock on october rather than the start clock, which is when, when palestine actually signed onto the i. c, c is very telling. and so there, it's lacking context is lacking depth. but again, i think it's very important because for all these years israel has been able to get away with literally murder and, and so the fact that we're finally seeing that one of these international institutions is beginning to hold. that's now and go launch accountable is actually a good 1st start. i hope it continues beyond this, and i hope we see not just indictments but to much more than that. in order for this genocide to finally come to an ad for the world to finally stop israel's genocide. tony olivia, what are your thoughts on this? well,

i think what we've seen thus far is possible real reluctance on the part of the i c. c. 2 way and as deanna said, that all the cases related to this space related to previous assaults on dogs that relate to, to israel side, crimes of sacrament instead of a still pending. i'm just following that fewer reluctance here we all with the court making the recommendation for these arrests. once i'd probably, i think we should acknowledge this. this could be a knock on effect from what we've already seen. a huge national court of justice from south africa, bringing that case from what the justice is going for in the provisional measures. but it's also a function of a c d n reality that we've seen come out of goss, i'm. yeah, one of the things that i would point out is that these rules, friends and allies have been saying to a, you know,

what we're trying to wrong comes up for you. why are you making the so difficult at least let more of this humanitarian stopping. so you called the, under the microscope, legally for the crime of full starvation. israel has acted with the kind of hubris and arrogance can only come with a level of impunity where they expect me to carry on working. and they're looking at this as a wait a minute on the front. so need some attention supposed to stop the i c. c from doing this. when okay, maybe they didn't, yesterday or the day before, but now this will kick in the will be fine of why this is so important. is it, it's a challenge to that. impunity, this doesn't change things overnight. there's no silver puts. but when it's released initially, notice it mo, question, but it's a question of pragmatism, an advocacy stall. the question is b, i c c can go locked or all the just if companies and now say should we make that

investment in tele, beef or somewhere else or more, keeps going to be more open to us. all weapon is going to keep flowing all research and develop a university corporation is always going to continue as if nothing has happened with adults is that intuitive challenge and the cost benefit equation looks different then we might actually see a change. so i think the most important message coming out is all those who are working to push impunity and accountability and to change that incentive structure redouble your efforts because they are beginning to walk. kate, to what extent are international law on the reputation of the legal bodies that are supposed to uphold it at stake? of all, i think very much say, i think in this whole situation, i think i got going back to the i c. j, a provisional measures decision and much daniel test referenced, i think that was

a collective holding up press before that decision as well because, you know, there isn't comprehension. that's the i, c, j wouldn't be as impartial as it. i believe it's demonstrated itself to be. i wouldn't just apply the little and, and come out with a kind of decision it gauge and i think that's been a similar feeling around the i c t y. i mean, we know about all the precious apple. it's a bad one. these institutions on the, you know, the geopolitical realities that walking and i think it's very important that i seem to be, to some extent, i mean, as far as possible, impartial. that's what that in time legitimacy, russell. and i'd like to come back on the 2 sides in a point. if i may, i don't disagree with anything that was said, but i would like to point out that i think it would have been impossible for cream con, to issue indictments against any one policy to these complaints. and in fact, the framework of international international humanitarian know in particular the lowest of will, is one which just click on its policies to the conflict. as you know,

the parties of the conflict in any motivation for fighting is irrelevant in the time that little. so it's, it has this leveling fact for anyone who's fighting for whatever reason the, the question of a, just or otherwise. but it would volunteer each other party. it's adults by and of course explain it. phones by both in this case is irrelevant. the point is, once you're in a conflict, you have to abide by these rules. so he has applied the rules. i would say he's chosen the offences that he is nice to everything else got conviction full. so i think he's probably followed the evidence. i think things like the, the non, if humanitarian assistance has such an hope, this one and the other one has picked. of course, with regard to the use writing forces is the indiscriminate or exciting to deliberate targeting civilians and my sick days. probably the 2 most easy to produce and that's why he's gone in that direction. genocide, as we know, is an extremely high threshold, very difficult and i could tie him up for a month and he might not be successful. we might see those charges coming down the

line, but i think it's not surprising that he issued the charges he to issue against these radius are these i think similarly, the ones have against the have mass need is what we put it on to the pages and i think it would have been quite impossible for him to procedures against any one party. diana had asked them, out of the withdrawal of the migration is cleaning up the i. c. c's, prosecute, who was equating the victim with the execution. now, what do you make of of that response? what will the people of guns and the occupied palestinian temperatures make of it? so we've been as palestinians, we've been waiting for industry international institutions to check in for as long as, as a israel has taken over our country and taken over our land. and we haven't yet seen that these international institutions do anything. so this house to me is we're always told that we must resort to the law and we have many times whether that was in 2004 at the i c j. whether again before is rarely courts, which it,

we've always been told we have to use, which are obviously not usable to everything from now. the, i see, and so on. policies have always put their faith in these international institutions . and yet, it's the same answer to international institutions that have actually failed pals finance. and so this is why you're hearing the response that you're hearing. but on the issue of both sides, which i, what i, which i want to pick up on is this wasn't just a question of, of putting a labeling allegations against both sides. but it's a question of which of the, of the issues were picked up on when it came to him us, there were suddenly 8 allegations when it came to israel, only 7. and yet we have this evidence of what it is that israel's been doing this. and they made it blatantly obvious, and they've actually been projecting it for the past 280 days. so it's not that they've kept it secret, as daniel said they've been, it's been very loud and very proud about this genocide that they're committing. and

even though the world has, has been telling israel, comet down comment down is real fuels and bold and to do whatever it is that it wants to do. and so now is palestinians were saying, well, if these institutions actually mean anything, you are going to be the ones that are going to stop this genocide because laughter, it's own devices. israel's not, it's going to continue to push on ahead because it's been given a green light by the world community. daniel, let's talk about reaction from this way. the side then uh, providence to netanyahu said the challenge is an attempt to deny israel the basic right of self defense. the count is poor and gasoline on the fires of anti semitism that a raging across the world. how much of a, a blow to his administration was this? so, let's look at a couple of things assessable this appeal to the outside world. is it against us? my friends, this fits very comfortably with me. complet safety, mental math that he's riley's,

have that has been encouraged to develop when it comes to how do you relate to something like this? so i think the initial response, so we've seen that has been a b, b churches resigned. this uncles has been a journey find all the rags. some people will say, well, know what the cost on a don. it's going to help not send. yeah, which is a silly thing to say because nothing, yahoo was not on the right of deluxe the anytime soon. he's, coalition is stable and it's not for the cool to not make his decision based on that consideration of course. so i think it is right. you've seen people 1st of all come out against and this is very important because it tells us that this is not just about not so young. the guy who is the other. how to just be the next you to the right party is just well visit because upfront we can do it wasn't good enough, but the leader of the opposition. yeah, the last page said when it's 50 agrees to the found the us know, while i say to normalize extreme package,

then the height will go away. one of the season notes. but it's important for that reason that has the slowly sink. see, i'm as be not going to expect thinking he's re lease will over time question this. and you have of course, had a group of jewish race who have questions which said we have to take this seriously . you, of course, have was senior citizens to be sort of taking a different approach on the very intimidating circumstances. deanna will love that better than any one. and then when it comes to the actual conduct of this assault on gaza, what it means, let's be clear, is ro, is going into russell, we're hearing the same stories of that. well, you know, we've done what the americans said. we got the people out of probably come to safety. they've gone to areas where they faced the bombing desk disease, salvation, insufferable human conditions. i'm pretty sure it's almost like roaming. so

these of course, the rest lawrence of being issued against those 2 individuals. nothing. yahoo and deadlocks, if we cost on mines by only a week, they were longer hands. they were going assets against each other. why? because one would say, hey, we gave you political compet. you didn't achieve the military victory. the other was saying, the better treated his bit, you didn't have a political plan. what is this really about? it's a blank window. blaine james happened. they happened when there was a failure, not only on the battlefield, but as we see now, legally, politically marty reputation of i'm, why is this? i have so many reasons why don't you said if your roman you kind of to is to say we're going to have a reset, push things back into a reality of a pol, tightened band to stand by ization. then you have nothing to work with. and so this takes israel's failings in this war to a whole new level, which of course does nothing to mitigate. how senior suffering bought this morning

could lead to that and it could impact the other case that the i c j, the south africa case and the code for immediate station because of what's happening in the case. you want to come back on what daniel was just saying that i would also us extra say that i'm for the blinking, said the dakotas overstepped it so far as he here has it. certainly not. no, the court has not started so far. so you, the prosecutor has authorization to carry out an investigation with the authorization. he proceed the investigation. i think diane is over the voice, the perspective that he took to, you know, i mean that's, that's certainly a position of that, that many people, his house. but he has applied the low to the facts that he was able to uncover in his investigations on these, the shooting diamonds. he has not paid a step to the 3rd to you is who i would say he's fulfilled his monday. okay, what about the arguments? lincoln's argument that there's really legal system should have thoughts but

allowed the opportunity to proceed and a full timely manner has to be drawn rushed. you said both you and diana was pointing out that it's been too slow. how's? he ignored? the principles of compliment parity was blinking, argued a tool that is an important principle in this not to the cool. so it would be, i could to nothing yahoo collapse. oh as well in general to ask for jurisdiction either those cases they would be able to kind not jurisdiction look at that is to say that the i c c, the case would not be admissible as a formal process by which the chamber will look and see what the case is admissible at a later stage. and one of the grants for disability is that the case is not being, you know, prosecute. he's an investigator, it's in a, in a domestic court which has jurisdiction. so there is a mechanism for that. the application could be made, but it would have to be really demonstrations that these charges the, or these, these acts the same acts that form the basis of these challenges. what actually

being properly investigated. you can prosecute your denise. i'll find out how much political pressure do you think the court is going to come on the in the coming weeks and months can, can we expect sanctions do you think to be issued against judges and prosecutors at the, the i c. c. i'm a group of republican senators in the the u. s. is already one to cool that if it, if it goes up to israel, we will come off to you. what do you make of that? this is, this is the us flexing it's muscle and this isn't the 1st prosecutor that they have tried to strong arm, and i don't think it will be the last one either. so i fully expect that they're going to try to go after cutting hon. i do want to ask you addressed the issue of using the is really courts and it's important to note that is real long ago passed a law that said that no cases that are inside guys that can actually be tried inside is really courts that the is really, military has clark law, should do whatever it wants. and we've seen this not just in the gaza strip,

or we've seen aggression after aggression attack after attack, where israel has not at all been held to account within their own legal system. but we also see it when it comes to soldiers that are given a free hand in the west bank. if you look at the statistics that there are as effectively no mechanism by which to charge soldiers with any crimes and in which to prosecute anybody. for example, we have your colleague the killing of your colleagues 2 years ago should in a block clue who was, who was murdered as she was covering israel's action in jenny and, and to this date. the family still doesn't even know the name of the soldier who killed her, and nobody has been held to account. so there is no system by which is real contrie itself. and so this is just yet another talking point that blinking others keep throwing out a so some how to kick this out of the international legal system. because they know that what israel's doing is fundamentally illegal under international law. okay,

i've got about 2 minutes left. daniel, i want to get another question and indicate, but it's really positions, of course, as you'd expect to run it around and nothing. yeah. who won't go out? what about the is where the public will, how will open rick is riley's feel about the fact that prime minister was the 1st western leader to have had an application for an arrest warrant with the 50 i, c, c. and the fact that it could. so the isolate israel for his war on guns as well. what we have seen is that these riley's have been treated to a very similar take home every single this happened of the last month. some of these rating media has an awful lot to also for. so i don't think you're going to see a blue cross section of that. probably take a different position. the question that for is, how will this be followed up not inside the cell, but on the outside. and my one comments on that would be that if the west continues to run cover for result to provide those weapons been, don't expect change inside this route. the real challenge here is sure you called

a captain the west, which proud d last is a batch of pride, that it is xenophobic he wants to bring down the international institutional architecture of law. the un, the i, c, c i, c, j. to proceed with these lemme, i will be the rest against the west agenda. i think they will fail. but the question to the supposed to be simple, which on a good day place to care about international lower than that institutional architecture and the criminal courts in the us. what is that we should all be willing to continue to pay the costs for running pop up the israel, which is don't do the roof exponentially. installation of back on the opposite, so far as the yes and the list, unless they change the outgoing to collapse the whole thing around them in order to defend these writing more crimes. and the all types of homes finally came about a minute left. what are the chances of us ever seeing those accused appearing before the international criminal? oh, that's

a difficult one to predict and i would have sold the chances of seeing the mass lead as well. high as and a thing be is right and you need is just because of the, you know, the press a political support might be stronger. but i mean, who knows? we have seen, you know, when the last of which was indicted at the i. c t y, of course he was not in the same position. jerry place it k as and i know he got net when middle speech was indicted, it was not clear that he would ever pay before that. and you can stop, you type email. he was also impala, he, you know, was deposed, and he was eventually hand. today's, i mean, there are many factors behind that box, you know, never say never. who knows what lies ahead for nothing. yahoo glance as in law at how that'd be left handed manufacturing day trip, macintosh dunny levy. and diana bu, to thanks for watching. you can see the program, i get it any time i go into the websites of all just 0. don't com for further

discussion. you can join us on our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story out. of course you can join the conversational x on handle that at h i inside story from me a very and said again the team here. and so we'll see the to interrogate the narrative is the u. s. has continued support for israel affecting it's global standing. there's no question about it. the united states has effectively complicit the genocide challenge. the rhetoric. yes, the correct, but so is the international community. can we also say that deals the cornerstone of democracy is having a free and open democratic process upfront without the

on counting, the cost of india's income inequality gap is whitening. so how can poor people get the share of the wealth? how much does the us spend in foreign aid and does about funding how to post global stability? plus why zambia has band charcoal production products? counting the cost on how to 0. the latest news, not only that these patients were receiving tedney, they all left his treatments in unless you are hospitalized, but they were also seeking refuge here with detailed coverage for the war. people had access to the leaders of water per day,

but now everybody here gets between $2.00 and $3.00 leaders from the hoss of the story. palestinian officials hold on to 0. that in situations like this is we will deduct the funds directly from customs cops the here watching l g 0. i'm telling you, navigate that with a check on your world headlines. the governments of ireland, norway on spain have announced they will recognize in independence palestinian states, slovenia, and malta could follow suit. the decision will be implemented beginning on the 28th of this month. the spanish prime minister, petra sanchez said his country had an obligation to act accusing that is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu of putting the 2 state solution in danger midway, nissan, rather than young, lucky enough for you to 5 minutes to nathan, yahoo as no piece.