at home and the media miller reports from cape town, home months, the organization murals for garza has been conveying the realities of israel's war and gaza through its outlook and through these walls, calling on people to act anyway, extra time to mit, back the community, just to show them that, you know, we can be late, we come from struggle and why not to the ignite, that struggles through, through far less being through guys. so, i mean, if there's anyone that needed fight this right now, do remember where we came from? it's, it's given this moment, so let's, let's do it. which point that the boys speak football as being dozens of murals and book up and other areas often touch the eyes of both tours and local people. centuries ago, broke off was way people from asia and other parts of africa report as slaves and south africa's experiences of oppression and a parties have not been forgotten despite the distance between them. many here save a situation in gauze who influence how they'll vote in general elections in may

basically is effective. we will remember those who support us and our brothers and sisters in palestine. and we will not forget those that supports in the side is this emissions is very much influenced by the global issues that we are facing and mainly the palestine issue that i mean, but i'll definitely, itself comes from and upon the system. you know, it is your cell, but they still really fishing the minds of all people. the wisdom k providence is one by the democratic alliance. it's also being criticized for taking unambiguous stones on the wall and goes off. well, the party says it supports a 2 state solution between israel and palestine. some voters don't think that goes far enough. of course, i always get worried if voters don't want to come and support a government to re election because of outside extraneous issues. and i do get a good concept, but i personally, i am not going to flip flop and say, or odd. well, now what of a sudden,

i'm going to change my colors and i'm not going to be trying to be balance between his teeth, the, because i'm worried about the outcome of the next fall. some boat is a critical of the governing african national congress has performance and power. it's a pulse of palestinians has been welcomed by others. civil organizations have signed an agreement urging people to costs the vote in favor of parties that supports palestinians. for the 1st time ever, the issue of a free palestine may influence the vote of some south africans in the selection to meet a miller ultra 0 cape town. and that does it for this bulletin. i'm layla herani. if you can find more information on our website that's onto xerox dot com. the news, of course, continues right here on al jazeera after upfront ceiling. the coverage of africa is what i'm most proud of. every time i travel,

whether it's east or west africa, people stop me and tell me how much they appreciate coverage. and our focus is not just on their suffering, but also on a more realistic and inspiring story. people try to tell them what's happening in their communities in at p a and unbiased. and as an applicant, i couldn't be more proud to be part of the spain, ireland in norway have all promised to recognize a palestinian state in the latest diplomatic blow to israel. what will this mark a significant shift in the west position, or is it as something upset a case of too little, too late? that conversation is coming up, but 1st, the international criminal court requested arrest warrants for leaders of both israel and from mass charging them with war crimes and crimes against humanity. the court has long been criticized for only going after lead us from the global self. so does this decision signal that it is now willing to prosecute western powers and

their close allies will ask that question to the isis is 1st chief prosecutor is which headliner? luis moreno a company? the reason why i didn't know a couple thanks so much for joining me on upfront. no, my friend in my possession, i like to discuss these issues problem. absolutely. let's start with what happened on monday this past monday, the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court. kareem con, i said that he had requested arrest warrants for war crimes and crimes against humanity for his really prime minister benjamin netanyahu a and is really defense minister you'll have the lot, as well as 3 members of some s a. these warrants against, as rarely leaders would be the very 1st time. and if the icpc has ever indicted a close ally of western powers, tell me about the significance of something like this. what it provide some signing the no make to the 2nd thing that was kind of tempted with the legal limits. what

does that mean in the process? the but the, basically the what's collecting evidence now we presented them into the judges. so that was why we will be decided by the judges non depressing it the, the judge, it kind of decided not to do it. so it's a process. now that the 3 judges, one is a me from romania, one from beginning, one from france. they would debate that with this site, and they can be cited in the months like important case on a months. so that, that process, one of the arguments that has been made by israel and by the united states is the question of legitimacy and jurisdiction in particular. israel's not pointing to the i c, c. they say we don't recognize the authority of the i, c c. well assigned, it has yet to be formally recognized as a state by the un. so there is no me there. you end up going back. no, no, i'm sorry. you my time was in my time by the time of the quest to be that intervention for 3 and they were brief in me and that the and i said, i'm talking to you another state. but after that of october 20 twice the un general

assembly decided that by the time if they not the member of the un but just state. and therefore an incentive thing by saying became a state part of the organ. tasha in the court. i am friends with the one. the court accepted the 50 gigs which will be done in the pipe and category, meaning gatzo, westbank. i need to tell him that why the court has not through the county fire, but how much gonna be the crime? stopping in gas that went through, if i come back to guess that was even hostages does. why the particulars are, has jurisdiction on how much the crime committed eventually. but let me do by then . yeah, cool happening, gas that many times. why the basically the it doing die. so it was it not investigating things has happened in the fire. he probably within k who kind of going to from got that on a or in get there isn't a risk for or it is granted. any country that's a signatory to the i. c c would have not just the right,

but really an obligation. yes. to arrest and that's in yahoo to arrest. you'll have the lar, if they ever step foot inside of their countries, that's in yahoo! had an interesting response to that reality when he was asked about potential travel concerns. he stated, i am not concerned about traveling. i'm not concerned at all about our status. the prosecutor should be worried about his status. so the 1st thing i want to ask is, how likely is it? in reality that nothing yahoo would be arrested when visiting a foreign country. where the debt is the what the subject had the issue, the fissions, then the police implemented them in the, in the us, if the police, if the i go on implement things, there's no i real i b, i. so the judge isn't that just need the pin on states. right. and for instance, for is stuff i forgot to say to mr. rashid, you cannot come here, but then one day they accepted. okay. you can visit now because it's a big meeting. but then the south african judge's orders that raise unless you have

to escape he right out. right? yeah, right, right. the back door. so that's why, but the input, the, the kind to go just off of the got, i'm to go to receive even the latest that you can come. they the not because they the, the, like to the galleries. so this is a, that's the read by the, the issue we should do more than that. and that's just about but event and then to profit. that's ok. we should more the problem for this situation. i look that you cannot. the c panel is using war gem increase got nothing human right? guy in general, increase that. who conduct operations and everybody's done. i knew that he did better what he called the insurgency. much, you'll kill your 10 terrorist. you kill 2. how many of the main 20 then minus 2 equal to print the why? because some of the of the friend be contemporaries. but in fact, how much lead is all of them are victims. are family who it for this place?

they have mostly they have kids killed so all of them are also victims that committed the crimes in the same time. so it's time to stop the revenge cycle that to protect the agency is offering an opportunity develop from more into just as the patient how much things are differently though. arrest warrants more requested for their leadership. yeah, we know. yeah, yeah. as in water, the leader and gallagher from us leader and guys, and my name is dave, who was the commander of the cuz i'm a big brigade or to the military. we have for mass. and as maya honey, who's the head of the from, as a political bureau. yeah. they've been accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity. they've demanded the withdrawal of these allegations. and they say that the i c c prosecutor was quote, equating the victim with the execution or their argument is they have a right to armed resistance. yeah. but okay,

go and the judge. yeah. bring that. go to do that. yes. do you have this argument go to a judge is make the argument, the best thing. it does not charging him to come forth any show or to do with assistance. they charge, then to go to his right. thank you for the 100 civilians and to, to run the hostages goodman kids. this noncombatant, so you are, you are, if you don't fight that, you cannot can civilians. so that's why if they'd be the one that the that's why they shouldn't go to the dentist if then the other way. because it, by the government basically are also called kareem khan. again, the prosecutor, one of the quote rates anti semites in modern times and he likened him to judges and nazi germany who helped to enable the holocaust. was a pretty heavy accusations. what do you make of that? did you come on? one of the 6 in the motion of the little advice. so he review and the evidence is they have

a few other mid on warning ends instead of the was never and then they are not able to able comp. and he was a victim 100 because i there, he came to the go, the vice of these, right, i'm the us, he's not on the music. he's a victim, he's in survival auto cause he say these are perfect valid requirements to request . so come on, the not the button, anything that says there's anybody else like this. they got responsibility. what he did, he was there this complaint you, you'll believe you're not, you're providing them when they actually don't explain the he can do that. and in fact, it is right as they don't like the whole going to the high to see the pressing. goodly if i can stop these that the only medication, if it is right, i think you'd those definitely mitigation. that was the case. but i have to be a genuine investigation. i don't know if there's a who is more afraid of it. he's very particular done or that's typically with them . i don't know what you think of. i am not sure about my job to determine that i can't get into netanyahu's brain and figure out what he's afraid of your peers and

not be afraid of much he's afraid to come on. he's still getting that for the month of the of the bread. yeah, but he can go to 2020 talk. so tough. he says look, i'm not getting the rest of in fact of the ice cream around the position. worry about his bed if you want to prosecute when that happens right. when you a prosecutor, if nothing yahoo, it said a couple needs to be worried about his status, not my boss. usually the advice you say that all the time the but when they talk about you is because the i'm a, the freight and the fact that he was very, a friend and a he does what, right? because they didn't j not getting that to see, but even jail. yes. when you die the you have a big problem that way. and if i yeah with what did about it and is what you talking about the for the last month, it probably means that even so many you take a comforting while you're looking so much about that to see if you don't care about that and see of course he cares. of course he gets okay, well the white house had some commentary about the icbc as well. uh, they say i see that they have jurisdiction, the conflict,

and the arrest warrant is outrages as we've already discussed. but in late april, prior to these warrants, a group of republican senators issued a threat to the i c. c. and specifically to the prosecute of green cross. that's what he said. he said target is real and we will target you if you move forward. we will move to end all american support for the i c c section your employees and associates and bar. you and your families from the united states. you have been born look in the us, the beach present nixon to effect just it on the beach. i don't on pump for the site for all protecting, just double time. yeah. yeah. so is it us tend to go into effect in the measurement just is that what they are doing that's gonna leave the world doing this like this thing isn't unfairly targeted and you don't have the jurisdiction, but the incentive to not national senate charging i back in the gosh,

darn core for doing something with us with the profit because the jurisdiction is provided by palestine. nobody's right. and then the case is come on. us is building a port in these in gas app because there is no more than a system coming from a rise. come a how that goes a good night. the problem i'd say, of course, is that go to crime hoop i have friends, international law professors from these right? everyone recognize it. you can not testify. the stop in the my, the, i see the what, the food to gas, that it, this obviously the a crime, starving is a crime. it's a crime coming to against armenians. is it kind of coming to always is a crime. so they have to ignore the crimes. i'm pretending that probably is not the those who meet the crime, the front of the person who does that is a big mistake. the us gives billions of dollars to israel. we have from, we have enabled israel in every way imaginable, money weapons, a shielding them in for from accountability at the un. uh, is there

a moment with the us will be deemed complicit? not just in the court, a public opinion, but in an international legal binding. but it legally, yes, if, if they so easily, the case is confirmed man. and these are crime committed to providing, waiting for the contributions of this crime could be a crime. but yeah, that could be a crime. so that's would be something for then you're a veteran and an expert. how likely is it, do you think that the us, i think the in cases the bind is, know, should be respected, not just by judges. i'm going to hear those law should be primarily respected by lead that's need. it's got an all say is okay to stop to 1000000 people always. okay. how much go on came to evaluate. now, we have to stand for the victims, evaluated victims, biased him victims, used to have done for the, for the killers. you have a problem. that's why the us ministers are making revolts because they don't, they,

they don't see the russian with this. how do you kind of drop crimes, how the us authorities cause that back? i think with the, with you. but i think it didn't all be as cons. is it time sort of think, you know, there are people who believe that obvious crimes should be investigated by the i c . c, just not obvious crimes in every country. uh, earlier this week the prosecutor con, did an interview with cnn's christiane and for. yeah, and he stated that in a named senior leader told him that the ice and see was actually quote built for africa and for thirds like clinton. israel also urged quote, nations of the civilized world to oppose the icy seas request for arrest warrants. what do you make of statements like the, the idea that there's a dichotomy between the civilized world and the global cell? the idea of the agencies for those people over there, not for us. and how that squares with the fact that this is the 1st time that

a close ally western power is being indicted as well as lloyd for everyone. no, no one is available on the fact that stuff after the guy demanding also the case before the j showing. okay. the lawyer you nothing that has of us, the stuff i forgot, the ceiling and the kansas. the files come to mind little because low. either way to put the, the low is the weather particularly weekend. you have the weapon, you're gonna need to know. you need to know when you're on the web once, and that's why it's so important to confirm. there's always important, i like it. the judges are from been in romania or good friends. he's not so small. so yes, i say it's a global experiment. is it done formation? and these are good on moment. not just 45 of them, but the students for the was luis berto a couple. thank you so much for joining me on upfront. thank you. the norway, ireland,

in spain will formerly recognize an independent palestinian state on may 28th. the coordinated announcement comes amid international outrage of the mounting dental and the humanitarian crisis. and guys of israel continues, it's a saw these countries hope others will follow in order to revive piece talks with formal recognition of a palestinian state has been unattainable for decades. so well, this move actually make a difference. here to speak with us about the matter is marine or benny. he is co editor of jed aliya and previously senior middle east analyst and special adviser on israel palestine with the international crisis group mine the to see you up on been to do more than 140 countries already recognize a palestinian stain. that includes a few european countries, of course, but no major western powers, ireland, spain, and norway have long advocated for palestinian state. so what is different now?

what's the significance of this move from these countries at this moment? and i think it's significant in several respects. it's of course, politically symbolic and i think it's certainly politically important in the context of been consistent is really position opposing genuine independence and genuine palestinian sovereignty over the occupied territories. but i think it's also significant in the sense that it's really too little too late on these 3 countries. in addition to sweden, which recognized posting in the state of a few years ago, represent 4 out of 30 plus members of the european union and european economic area. they've said they've taken this move in order to promote the 2 state of uh, settlement. now the time to have done that would have been is either in the

late 19 eighties when the palestinians 1st proclaimed statewood or at the very latest. during the 1990s, when israel's relentless settlements expansion under the oslo agreement, it's made clear that unless it's rarely expansion isn't, was resisted through political and practical measures. there could be no 2 states settlement having waited until 2024 to do this again. is in my view too little too late, particularly. talk about this, talk to me about the 10 little part 1st i get into late part right there in the eighty's and ninety's, who would've been a much more impactful choice. but when you say it's too little, isn't, is it to inductive to say that it's now just a symbolic measure, or is there an actual practical value to this recognition? well, i do think there is practical value, but what i meant by to little is if you know these western states,

and not only those who have now recognized tossing steak, but, but also all the others who claim to be in support of the 2 states settlement if they genuinely believed that to be the case, then there should be all kinds of practical measures they should take. for example, banning settlement products on to the european market, which is the main factor in making is rarely settlements. the legal is rarely settlements a viable economic proposition. you can have a to state settlement without ending the occupation. and unless they take forceful, practical measures to end the occupation then of steps such as we've seen yesterday will be made to appear to be symbolic level. and that's what i mean by it being too little. when we think about the 2 state solution, uh, as you pointed out, these 3 countries see this as a step on the way to that long standing,

i'll say at least express goal, and i'm not always convinced that it's a real commitment as much as it is and articulated the gold. 1 many countries in the it, many cards around the world and united states have expressed that same goal to stay in solution. but they say it can be achieved through other means it can't be done. now. they need to be direct negotiations between israel and palestine. in order for that to happen. uh, the concern many people have myself included is we've been saying this for decades now, the oslo accords with the opportunity to get their eyes. you're pointed out all these different chords throughout time, whether it's a clinton accords, whatever it is, we keep trying to get there. there haven't been direct negotiations for 15 years between the 2 countries. so, is this now the time for a new approach? you mean is the approach at least an alternative, an alternative to just taking the ball down the field every year? thing to state solution with no negotiation. that, that certainly appears to be the case,

especially when one party to the solution has the state of israel has demonstrated itself to be a new, rational genocidal apartheid state that has reached the point where it can no longer distinguish between from the full that thinks every political challenge can be resolved with overwhelming force and violence, but i would just like to say in response to your earlier correct interpretation of those who on the one hand claim to be in favor of a 2 state settlement and at the same time say it can only be achieved through by lateral there's really posted in negotiations, but they're essentially saying is that a palestinian state and the unalienable rights of the past and in people to self determination can only be implemented on the basis of his really approval. in other words, the negotiations are intended to give israel the right to veto,

over the establishment of a policy needed state over the form of the past and in states and over the substance of such a state. and to anyone who has been observing on this issue over the past decades, it's clear as day light that is real simply has no intention to end the occupation . so when, on the one hand you give this unconditional support to isabel by making its on by making pulse and he writes, dependent on is really concerned then statements in support of the 2 states. settlement are really just performative and not more than smoke and mirrors . after the announcements, the u. s. again reiterated that it does not support unilateral recognition of a palestinian state and no surprise there a while. then you in general, assembly over womanly supports the palestinian state. the us unilaterally blocked a bid for, for you in membership earlier this year. this is all of this meaningless. this

entire push for a palestinian state recognition is all meaningless. if the u. s. and other major powers won't change their longstanding policy. i wouldn't go so far as to characterize it as meaningless. again, i think it's politically significant in the sense that it demonstrates once again how thoroughly out of touch the united states is with the will of the international community. we often think of, of, of the west as providing leadership to the international community in the united states in particular performing battle. i think what this crisis has demonstrated does that we're really dealing with 2 separate entities with an ever growing child in between the, the west leg by the united states on the one hand. and the international community representing the will of the vast majority of governments and states around the world on the other hand. and what the us is really saying is it doesn't want

palestinian statehood unless and until is real, agrees to it. and in addition to us will exercise no pressure on israel to consent . how does israel's outrage play into this? i mean, after the recognition of these 3 european states was announced, nothing. yahoo said that this was a move that rewards terrorism. other members of israel's hard line government, even people who don't like netanyahu, echo this intimate. historically, those kinds of statements, those types of claims have helped to mobilize support for israel in the global community. are we still in a moment where that's possible or has that train left the station? i think that train is left the station. i should, that i almost feel sympathy for these are, is real leaders in terms of the outrage that they have expressed. their problem is that they have enjoyed total impunity for so long on any issue relating to the palestinians. they're used to getting their way and being coddled by the

west in the united states, in particular on everything over the decades. that to them even the slightest challenge to their unilateralism and dealing with the palestinians is seen as an affront against the entire state and its very existence. and i think that explains why, as the, as, as you noted, even is really leaders who are most opposed to the attorney who is a leader on stand shoulder to shoulder with them on this issue. just as a do with respect to the international court of justice. the international criminal court and really any other initiative on that suggests that there's going to be any challenge to israel's ability to deal with the palestinians on the use a lateral basis with western support with total impunity. right. and remind me, thank you so much for joining me on upfront. thank you very much for having me. right. everybody that is our show upfront. we'll be back next to the

unique perspective. a deep fake image of donald trump with flag folders to try to win over black voters. these aren't real, but the harm is incredibly realized on hud voices. it's our responsibility to make sure that future generations are not lied to connect with our community and tap into conversations you weren't find elsewhere. young americans, in particular, have been extremely critical of the united states as role in the us. the stream on al jazeera, on counting the costs to us, escalates its trade with china, but does it have the upper hand to the sugar industry is in crisis. other parts of its full spring economy could also be effective. plus the moving shortage in critical minerals needed for the energy transition. counting the cost on al jazeera,

so that for those heading to the polls, what, what could be the biggest shakeup in the region? in decades for 30 years, the african national congress has held power. but now it faces its biggest election bethel sofa join. us says you bring you live updates from across the country. so that's the election. i know it is there. israel's war on gossip be coming in forever across the united states? why are the student protests for palestine being met with military style track down wide is by to insist on 0 consequences for israel in its war on gaza. the quizzical look of us politics, the bottom line for us is always of inside pick people around the world. this has been going on for a number of our report to an international perspective to try to explain to global audience how this could impact the like. this is an important part of the world and how to do this very good that bringing the news to the world from here.

showcase of the best document 3 films from across the network on al jazeera, the in defiance of the wens top ports. israel continues to attack it off off targeting a crowd of refugee camp the rock. this is l g 0 life. although also coming up, israel's military surrounds the community hospital and also hitting the surroundings with air strikes as gauze as health care system collapses. and the international court of justice has ordered israel to immediately suspend its

military operation in law and allow aid into gossip and rescue teams to begin arriving at the sight of a.