the out is there is only mobile apps, is that the, this is where we just fix allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorites apps to just set for it and typed on a new app from out to 0 new at your think is it the donald trump could vice more than 100 years in prison for falsifying business records? go find out shortly before the public and decide whether he's been man for president to help with all of this shy cus selection. and we'll just the rest of the world. think this is inside the story. the hello and welcome to the program. i'm toma craig,

donald trump has been convicted on 34 charges and his circled hash money trial. he was found guilty of falsifying records to cover up payments he made to adult film style stormy daniels in the run up to the 2016 presidential election. this makes him the 1st full us president to be convicted of a criminal offense trumpet could face up to 156 years behind bars. this sentencing, next month's polls just 4 days before the republican parties national convention. that's when policy members will nominate who they want as been next president. so what is next for donald trump? and what might all of this means to the us presidential election on november, the 5th? we'll get to, i guess i'm just a moment that this, this report from image and temper. busy prison presidency potentials for donald j trump, the former us president has been convicted of 34 criminal offenses falsifying business records. thank you very much for the center of the and so $130000.00

payment to adult film star story daniels in exchange for her silence as a claim. she had 6 with trump around the time of the 2016 election very much. he says, who challenged the verdict, so we're going to be appealing, this scam. we're going to be appealing it on many different things. you wouldn't allow us to have what this is. it wouldn't allow us to talk. you wouldn't allow us to do anything. the judge was a tyrant on trump claims patrols and preventing him being elected president for 2nd time in november. he's the 1st president to be convicted of a crime. each of the judges could carry full your jail sentence. the imprisonment is considered unlikely. trump doesn't think any of this will stop him being elected president a 2nd time and the us constitution agrees, convicted or imprisoned felons to run for office. critics, a trump defines claims that the trial was politically motivated or a threat to the rulers,

little democracy. the american principal said no one is above the law was very firm. a donald trump is given every opportunity to defend himself as reckless is dangerous. it's irresponsible for anyone to say this is greg, just because they don't like the verdict. justice, i'm should respect the criminal trial is one of the trump is facing, but it may be the only one to be held to see the presidential election in november . is 1st the sentence saying, you should take place 4 days for the republican party, who many nominates presidential candidate, washington. and there are no signs. it might ditch a controversial politician, a businessman with a large and loyal following. so americans asking is, well, he's supposed to stick by him and is there enough of them to wind even the presidency for 2nd time back in image and came back out to 0. so inside story

people here, let's bring it out. yes. now christian christianson is a journalism professor ed stuck home university. his work focuses on the relationship between tick journalism and political power. he joins us from there. from sarasota in florida, we joined by roland phillip cowski. he is a former state and federal prosecutor and now it, it to in chief of the political new sites. midas touch dot com, and greg swinson is the chairman of republicans overseas u. k. he's also a founding partner with the investment back brig mcadam. he joins us from sorento in italy. thank you very much for joining us here on the inside story. we're on. if i can begin with your place. i mean this has been cool to everything from historic, to fraudulent corrupts to complete the side show. what did you make of the verdict? well, i paid attention to the entire trial. follow the transcripts every single day in the reporting. i thought that the case was extremely strong, and it was,

it was very convincing the evidence that was presented. donald trump certainly could have testified in his own defense. he chose not to he called one witness on his behalf. that was basically acting like a mob lawyer trying to and that, that witness wasn't. the testimony was a disaster. so i didn't find the verdict, especially surprising, based on the fact that i was following what was actually happening in the court room. now if i had watched news reports or media reports of the trial, maybe i might feel differently. but the fact that i relied on the testimony and the evidence that was presented, made it made it no surprise whatsoever to me. and i guess that is reflected in the study for guilty accounts that were handed down by the jury. greg, does this mean that it slots out to donald trump? now? i don't think so. and if you'd asked me that's 6 months ago, i was very concerned that, that these, the indictments in general would,

would really help trump in the nomination process, which it clear clearly did, but then heard of in the general election. but i think after a, i think after voters have seen the reporting on the trial or seen any of the direct quotes from the trial, how a judge one more sean behaved and manage the case. and the, and some of the conflicts or, or the obvious conflicts from both the judge and aland alvin bragg. i think keep, we're going to look through this since the end. and actually it could even help trump in the general election at the very worst it'll, it'll room, he'll remain flat now. we haven't seen any polling numbers yet, but my guess from the fundraising, binge that occurred after the verdict. 54000000 is the last i heard and, and just the reactions. i think even people that don't like trump or, or looking at this as selective justice or weapon ization of the justice. part of the assistant, whatever you want to call it a, it's probably going to helping me christian,

what do you make if that did this could actually help rather than him to trump, especially in the hours and in the day also since the visit was handed down we've really seen a trump and his allies talk about the corruption that as a religious around at this judge and in this trial. yeah, i think when he saw the reaction to the, the last selection, uh, the suggestion that there was a corruption of the electrical system, a suggestion of the courts that were making decisions against that. that argument on a regular basis, $56070.00 cases where it was basically dismissed, that there was a corruption of the electoral. i think that i think it'll probably solidify his base. and that way, there's a general consensus that the us, the traditional system is corrupt, systematically biased against republicans. what it does with independence, whether is another question, whether or not us citizens who are on the fence between voting for biting work from

actually fall on the side of trump. as a result of this, i don't know, but i do think that the deeper, more ex, essential question is the way in which this verdict and the aftermath of the verdict will be exploited to promote the idea that there is an inherently corrupted and efficient judicial system. within the same way that the argument was made in relation to the us electrical system. and then the question i think for americans then becomes if that's the argument being made, what argument is being made to rectify that problem? has this been a systemic problem? is it something that's only happening on selective instances? i think this is a very dangerous road to go down when you systematically been to begin to question really t elements of us aside elect additional system like educational system, like the cdc. for example, during coven, and i see this is part of the much broader pattern of generating this trust for these institutions. wonder if we can just talk about sentencing for a little better because obviously uh, trump was found guilty on $34.00 charges he could face for years in prison for each

of those. i mean, what are the chances that he will go to present at all, and how would that actually would, could he face them consecutive legal concurrently? i think it's very unlikely that trump goes to prison. judge marsan has bent over backwards to be fair. in this case, despite a lot of the, this information that trump in his supporters have put out, he had trump violated his gag order, his bond conditions repeatedly over and over again. motion did virtually nothing, find him a $1000.00 for each violation. he excluded a lot of evidence that trumpet wanted to present. he shrugged off a tax on his family and himself personally. and so at the sentencing, this is now the same judge that has to decide whether trump is going to go to jail, go to prison, or get put on probation. so it could be a combination of those things. i think prison is unlikely, but the,

the question is would it be sentenced to county jail time? uh, 6 months 30 days. certainly he will get probation that that's a given. um. so i think it was more likely what he's probably going to get. sorry. well, what, what is probation mean in terms of people outside the united states to might not understand exactly what that entails. probation means you have to typically check in once a month with a probation officer who monitors your activity. there could be some restrictions on your travel, although most likely again, you will be bent over backwards and accommodated once again because he's a politician running for office. and he will be given special exceptions that other people on probation don't have. he could be randomly drug tested, he could be ordered to perform community service, all of those things, but, but typically to get a break like probation after you're convicted at trial, you have to show remorse. you've got to apologize. you have to behave yourself.

clearly, donald trump is not going to do any of those things, so most likely, if he gets that kind of sense, he's going to get the benefit of leniency despite the fact that he doesn't do anything, a normal criminal, defend, it would do to deserve that. yeah, i think trump has said since being found guilty at the he's called the judge of tyron. so obviously as you mentioned this the same judge that is going to sentence him. greg. i mean trump is really coming in this defiant and firey as ever. and i can see you smiling and nodding along that. i mean, it's all the same products dreamily. well for him in the past. do you expect him to continue with that policy? i do, and sometimes i've done very critical of it. i thought to the press conference yesterday was too long and it was me and during a times and, and, you know, he does that well, it rallies, but that wasn't really the for him for, for, you know, to, to communicate that way. and so yeah, he's running that risk of, of annoying the judge and, you know, the sentence is,

is coming on july 11th. it's only 4 days before the republican national convention . so i'm, i'm always a little bit worried about his unfiltered rhetoric. but on the other hand, it really works for him. and so you know what, when i was supported, ronda sat just in the primary process. i was not, you know, a mag a big trump supporter. but you know, now that it's a binary choice. and i realized what's been done with, you know, weaponized thing, adjust the system are selective, just as i'm, you know, i like many, i sympathetic to what he's gone through. and i think that, you know, as, as your, your guess that earlier on we're also worried about what it's done to the 2nd, but just the system in general. and then just and sort of distrust or mistrust. and kristin just on the point of trump has come out and accused by the end of pulling the strings behind the scenes here. what do you think that that does to undermine the justice system in america? i think it does a great deal of damage and i think that, you know, you can be critical of the us justice system is absolutely nothing wrong with the

citizen of questionings, organizations and systems of power. i mean, that's really what being a citizen is all about as asking questions. and let's remember that for years, many american citizens have been critical of us just the system in his treatment, for example, of african americans and minorities. but when that argument was made, we were told on a regular basis that the united states was the country. it was that we had jury systems that we needed to trust the legal system. but then when and when a decision goes against the candidate, suddenly we are in the middle of an extremely corrupt, extremely politicized legal system. and i think that's where the problem really begins, which is, it's a selective outrage. trump is critical of assessing much the same way that we were critical of the electrical system again in 2020, but i didn't hear a great deal of criticism in the electrical system in 2016 when he won. so either we believe the argument that in 4 years we went from an extremely efficient electrical system to one that was completely broken and from an extremely efficient,

proper legal system. the one that's been highly politicized is i think that is the problem there, that you have these very conflicting arguments and ordinary citizens who are not educated on the legal system. or maybe not that familiar with the political system even are left with a kind of a vacuum and which they have to fill with certain kinds of information. and that vacuum leads to this trust and that this trust can lead to things like, for example, question is the warranty of the legal system. and that's not necessarily a problem, but it's a problem when it's less completely wide open for citizens to make up their mind. with almost no information or with this information. yeah. and this just, the system isn't exactly over the trump at this point in time, is single that he's going to appeal on a couple of counts wrong. he said that basically the judge was conflicted. any argued that he wanted a venue change, which was denied that they wouldn't be able to get a fee of trial in manhattan. i mean, what are the chances he's actually going to be successful here on appeal? and how long does that process tag as well?

first of all, appeals on those grounds, you know, the various conspiracy theories that bite and is behind this prosecution of which there's no evidence. and no evidence been presented that binding or the binding campaign has anything to do with this whatsoever. the only thing that they point to is the fact that one of the prosecutors on the team who didn't even do most of the trial, michaelangelo work and the justice department. but it's not unusual for federal prosecutors to go work for the state and vice versa. so that's basically the basis of the conspiracy. and in fact, michael, glandular was brought into the to the manhattan, da's office to head up the white collar unit, and to do housing law, he does a whole bunch of things he wasn't just brought in to prosecute trump, which is the conspiracy. so that part of his appeal will not work the, the main issue for his appeal is that what, how this law was applied some of the big areas of the law and he has

a legitimate appeal. the problem for him is that's not going to be resolved until after the election. yeah. great. of just wanna take a step back now and just think about how consequential this verdict actually might be when it comes to the election in november. because some, some legal problems aren't exactly new and we do know, greg, that his advice really is baked in, isn't it? is this going to make any difference? what so we have to the outcome of november. i took, it could surely wouldn't with the base that's for sure, but i think it could if a certain percentage of republicans will not vote for him with a conviction. and that was some of the polling that was, that was coming out several months ago. but i think things have changed since then . and then as single people that aren't necessarily supporters of the trunk coming out in the saying how absurd this trial and the and type and where and you know, they just saw the president trump reference. and the mccarthy from the national review yesterday at least once, maybe twice in his speech. you know, any,

mccarthy is not a trump supporter. stop going to vote for him. he never has, even though he's a republican allen dirty, which is a democrat, will never vote for trump hasn't photos the trunk. you know, and he's, you know, basically said, of course the jury convicted him because they were essentially the, you know, told, or it's a to convict by the, by the judge that again, that's just allens or sure which is the opinion. i'm not that not validating that, but i think you know, the, but there is some concern and i'm glad we're talking about it with this, you know, about election interference or, or, you know, going back to 2020 and it's, and yes, it's partisan, whoever loses complains that the election was illegitimate, but just like hillary clinton said after she lost and 16, and of course you had stacy abrams in georgia. they said that, you know, she won the election. she said that for 4 years before losing by 9 points to the, to the sitting governor of georgia. so you know this, it's not healthy. it didn't work by the way, in 2022 in the mid terms. you know, most of the elections in ayers or the people obsessed with 2020 did not too well or

lost in their, in their elections even though they won their primaries. and so i don't think it's a winning strategy. but i think in this case, this is a little different because you have so many people, megan kelly, for example, who are not trump fans, or trump supporters or, and actually it's actually now saying, i'm going to vote for trump in what we're saying, i think you mentioned this earlier, i mean his fundraising, if it's have gone through the roof since the varies was handed them well as a $50000000.00 has come into his his campaign. christian, what does that tell you about his support and what does do you think it says about child support? is that they're actually willing to dismiss the justice system completely at this point in time because you know, they, they didn't get the verdict that they thought trump should, does it well, i think it's fix to evict the most those codes from victim, but a little bit here that this is sort of the which ones against the trump and the

republican party, which is precisely an argument that the republicans in front of been pushing for quite some time and not just within the legal system. of course we're talking about the same thing in terms of media coverage or an education universities, whatever it might be. it's a sort of us versus the world mentality, which is pretty interesting because, i mean, you're talking about a lot of people with a lot of power talked about the fact that they may have been canceled. i think the fact that he's raised that much money in such a short amount of time speaks to a fairly substantial percentage of us population that believes that this is the case. and this gets back to the issue that i mentioned before to have dangerous. it is, i think the push this notion that you have these kind of structures like for example, that the jury was instructed, the people saying stuff like that. and i don't necessarily think that megan kelly, who work for fox news around or she was, are necessarily representative of, of all that borderline people have a fairly substantial component of people in the united states who are actually in the middle of independence. and how they're going to vote, we actually have absolutely no idea, but i think that the amount of money they raise speaks to probably,

i would say for non american audiences, it speaks to a much larger base of trump. supporters really do believe that these institutions and society are structurally discriminating against republicans and distrustfully discriminating strong and underestimating power of the group. as we saw one from one of the 1st time can be a big mistake. and i think we have to be aware of that fact that the support may be bigger than we actually think. yeah, obviously on the other side of this is joe biden, who's obviously looking to be re elected to the, to the democrats as president. now we've seen him come out and talk about the justice system being the bedrock of america's democracy in the constitution role. is that the best way for him to frame this? and what more does he need to do to try and capitalize on this guilty verdict? yeah, well, i'll talk about that in a 2nd, but 1st let me clear up this trump raise $15000000.00. okay. because that is being argued as the harbinger or an indicator of how much the american public is

supposedly rising up and upset about this verdict. first of all, those are numbers that were said by donald trump last night. there is no proof whatsoever of how much the rate is. we. this is just donald trump, claiming that he raised this much. okay, that we report campaign finance reports quarterly. this is a man who has been, who has just recently convicted of inflating his assets in his finances. this man has done this his whole life. so we'll see when the campaign finance reports come into play, how much he actually raised. he does. yeah. discovery a couple of times late that number, but he does have to disclaim how much he fun rise, but that doesn't come out for a long time. so it doesn't that. yeah, exactly. yeah, yeah, but good result by then the i'm going to remember. yeah, great. do you want to jump in the i saw the numbers. yeah, i saw the numbers from when roads and i don't, i don't when read, which is the technical firm that the assistant fundraising adult. they would

exaggerate those numbers because it will come back to haunt them. if they are, i'm not saying it's, you know, a 100 percent federal election reporting that will come in july, but yeah, okay. i would be surprised if they display exaggerated like that. get me wrong if you can just answer the question about barton and how he should gone from this to benefit his campaign. well, a joe biden, son is right now, being prosecuted in about to go to trial for a felony for furniture. felony charge is that almost nobody gets prosecuted for in the united states. so the idea that you know, the justice this apartment is weaponized in jo biden's favor is a bit absurd when his own son is being prosecuted right now. as well as a democratic senator from new jersey is currently in trial right now for fraud charges as well. so i think donald trump is, i mean, not joe biden is very smart to come out and say, look 5 and put myself on the scale here. democrats are currently being prosecuted.

republicans are being prosecuted and you don't get immunity for your crimes. just because you decided to run for president product. great, which we talked a little bit about this. how this is obviously, this election is going to come down to a small number of swing states like wisconsin and pennsylvania, and even smaller number with in the states. that will probably decide the outcome of the selection of those people paying any attention to this trial does this when the need a one way organ or another in terms of who they will buy for come november. yeah, and i'm really curious to see how the appalling comes out this way to go and we don't have any data yet. again, i just, mike got from what i'm reading over the last couple of days that it will, could potentially help president trump. but there's no doubt this is going to be a very close selection. even of trump sweeps the southern of swing states, you know, in the nevada georgia, arizona. he still has the wind,

one of the 3 midwestern states, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. you know, by and one, all 3 of those states in 2020 trump one on one and 16, but they're pulling basically dead even right now trump, why i'd have a, you know, half a point or a one point lead that's well within the margin of error so yeah it's, it's not going to take much of a one or 2 points swaying from this, from this verdict for or against could swing the election. and i think we've to keep an eye in those states by that has to wind all free. trump only needs to have that only has to win one, but again, it's not inconceivable for binding to pick up a few points and within those 3 states. yeah, and a kristen, you're obviously in, in stock home. can you just give us an idea of the view from, from europe at this point in time? i mean, it does this whole issue, the, the, the length, a legal process and then the response to it, the cause for corruption, the judges, a tyrant, those sorts of things. how does that undermine america's claim of, you know, world supremacy here?

i mean, does it feel like it's being eroded from within well, i mean, i don't want to be so presumptuous as this before. i still have insurance, but uh, i grew up new k and i, i live as waiting for 15 years. uh, as an american, uh, i think the now one of the things that i would say, one of the things that i but shocked people actually in sweden when i 1st told them was when, when frank was convicted were found guilty that i told them that actually that doesn't stop him from running for president. i think that there's one thing that people, you know, when they think about the us justice system, they think of imprisonment. we have a very large prison population that not only can you run for president or convicted a problem, the guy said to presidential candidates who run for president from prison. i mean eugene debs and 1920. and lyndon laroche in 1992. and i do think that i do think that the last not just i think the last 60 years in the united states has actually eroded this sense. and i think that maybe not just that's not just in europe, but i would also say international as well. you have to remember that the united

states quite often takes the moral high ground on issues of freedom of speech, democracy, elections. trump is use derogatory terms to refer to countries and for example, africa in the state of their democracy. and when you make those kinds of comments as representatives of a government or a country and you then see presidential candidates who have been convicted of crimes have been found liable. for example, sexual assault in a civil court running for office. whatever you think of the verdict and whatever your opinion about the legal system, it becomes rather difficult them to take, as i said, the moral high ground on legal issues or ethical issues or political issues internationally. and i think so probably the damage is done there. it's that the united states is just like, let latitude for making these kinds of comments becomes extremely narrow when these kinds of things happen. and i, you could also as a final point, just throw in here. but these are things that are sort of come out in the open was i pointed out earlier. let's also remember the criticism of the us justice system

has been made from other elements of us society minority, these poor people for decades, and largely dismissed as being some kind of what the story you meant or propaganda against the us legal system. and now we're hearing that it's a completely broken and corrupt system because someone from another area of town has been convicted and that kind of dole standard is very, very hard to ignore, is quite a glaring. actually. obviously a lot of things to happened before the election on november the 5th we've got the base later in june, then is obviously the republican democrats conventions as well as sentencing. and so there's plenty of what does it go under the bridge before we get to know them? but thank you very much. christian ronan, great, we really do appreciate your time and your insight into this. thanks so much. well, thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that's l g 0. don't com. to further discussion, go to l. facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. i'll handle

is at a inside story. somebody told me the crime and the whole team hit by some of the the illusion of anti senses with opposition to design is of its cynical. and it is harmful, a dangerous conflation between the persecution of a people and the criticism of the state is echoing across the world news rooms and to send me keys in the hatred of jews because the country is on this and is not about jewels. it's about to answer and we need to talk about design is a listening close special on of jersey to interrogate the narrative. there's no question about the united states is effectively complicit the genocide challenge

the rhetoric. yes. a unique the correct. but so is the international community upfront. only what, how does it full set of the homes? and now i think from the heat, a group of displaced people sit in the shade. this is the 3rd time they've had to flee that village close to the town of coker and they hadn't even arrived. it'll be late before they start telling us. it's especially hard for the children, most school spring clothes since the q 3 years ago and constantly moving is the plan set? 24 hours a day as a constant bodies in the sky. that's what the fine to say is why 12, it's a supposed to play that up. the looking for targets front tillery, but also capable of jumping down on other basic services like health care scares to the clinic. a small truck arrives inside my pen a in labor and moaning in pain, the sound everyone has been hoping to hit smiles and really for the family and the

medical stuff. but a new arrival in a very on system. well. the the hello on monday and site. this is a new life from dough coming up in the next 16 minutes. dying of hunger and lack of medical care. we report on the flights of gauze as children in during israel speech . thousands of his riley's defiant police cracked down is a demand prime minister benjamin netanyahu, except a us proposal for a c.