it seems, but the main concern is how these people are able to feel that live with detailed coverage hall teeth tooth has been on the heavy ariel from above and for months. now the residential building here is just been here from around the world, which we'll see here is a catch of mussels of the fisherman used to be able to get these just by going about 20 minutes from here. now we have to go out at least 4 hours. donald trump could face more than 100. he is in prison for falsifying business records. go find out shortly before the public and decide whether he's been man for presidents. so how could all of this shake cus selection and we'll just the rest of the world think this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program on top of the crime, donald trump has been convicted on $34.00 charges and historical hash money trial. he was found guilty of falsifying records to cover up payments he made to adult film style stormy daniels in the run up to the 2016 presidential election. this makes them the 1st full us presidents to be convicted of a criminal offense. trump could face up to 156 years behind bars. the sentencing, next month's polls just 4 days before the republican parties national convention. that's when policy members will nominate who they want as been next president. so what is next for donald trump, and what might all of this mean to the us presidential election on november, the 5th, we'll get to, i guess i'm just a moment that this, this report from image and came to prison. well, presidency potentials for donald j trump, the former us president, has been convicted of 34 criminal offenses falsifying business records. a thank you

very much. so the center of them. so $100.00 and such a size and dollar payment to adult film star store mcdaniels and exchange for her sewing and the claim she had 6 with trump around the time of the 2016 election very much. he says, who challenged the verdict. so we're going to be appealing this scam. we're going to be appealing it on many different things. you wouldn't allow us to have what this is. it wouldn't allow us to talk. you wouldn't allow us to do anything. the judge was a tyrant on trump claims patrols and preventing him being elected president for 2nd time in november. he's the 1st president to be convicted of a crime. each of the judges could carry for your jail sentence. the imprisonment is considered unlikely. trump doesn't think any of this is still in being elected president a 2nd time and the us constitution agrees, the convicted or imprisoned felons to run for office. critics. a trump defines claims that the trial was politically motivated or threat to the rule of law and

democracy. the american principle to no one is above the law was very firm. donald trump is given every opportunity to defend himself as reckless is dangerous . it's irresponsible for anyone to say this is greg, just because they don't like the verdict, justice them should be respected. the criminal trial is one of the trumpets facing, but it may be the only one to be held before the presidential election in november . is 1st the 70 saying you should take place 4 days before the republican party, who many nominates presidential candidate, washington. and there are no signs. it might ditch a controversial politician, a businessman with a large and loyal following. so what americans are asking is, well, he's supposed to stick by him and is there enough of them to william the presidency for a 2nd time vacuum imaging came back out to 0 for inside story. people here let's

bring it out. yes, now christian christianson is a journalism professor at stockholm university. his work focuses on the relationship between tick journalism and political power. he joins us from there. from sarasota in florida, we joined by roland phillip koski. he is a former state and federal prosecutor, and now it is to in chief of the political you sides. midas touch dot com. and greg swinson is the chairman of republicans overseas u. k. he's also a founding partner with the investment back brig mcadam. he joins us from sorento in italy. thank you very much for joining us here on inside story. we're on. if i can begin with your place. i mean this has been cold. everything from his start to fraudulent corrupts to a complete side show. what did you make of the verdict? well, i pay attention to the entire trial. follow the transcripts every single day in the

reporting. i thought that the case was extremely strong, and it was, it was very convincing the evidence that was presented. donald trump certainly could have testified in his own defense. he chose not to he called one witness on his behalf. that was basically acting like a mob lawyer trying to and that, that witness was it testimony was a disaster. so i didn't find the verdict, especially surprising, based on the fact that i was following what was actually happening in the court room. now, if i have watched news reports or media reports of the trial, maybe i might feel differently. but the fact that i relied on the testimony and the evidence that was presented, made it made it no surprise whatsoever to me. and i guess that is reflected in the city full guilty accounts that were handed down by the jury. greg, does this mean that it slides out to donald trump? now? i don't think so. and if you'd asked me that's 6 months ago,

i was very concerned that, that these, the indictments in general would, would really help trump in the nomination process, which is clear clearly did, but then heard in the general election. but i think after, i think after voters have seen the reporting on the trial or seen any of the direct quotes from the trial, how a judge one more sean behaved and manage the case and the, and some of the conflicts or, or the obvious conflicts from both the judge and alan alvin bragg. i think we're going to look through this since the end. and actually it could even help trunk in the general election at the very worst it'll, it'll run, he'll remain flat now. we haven't seen any pulling numbers yet, but my guess from the fundraising, binge that occurred after the verdict. 54000000 is the last i heard and, and just the reactions. i think even people that don't like trump or, or looking at this as selective justice or weapon ization of the justice, part of the assistant, whatever you want to call it a,

it's probably going to helping me christian, what do you make if that did this? could actually help rather than him to trump, especially in the hours and in the day also since the village goes handed down, we've really seen a trump and his allies talk about the corruption that as a religious around to this judge. and in this trial. yeah, i think when he saw the reaction to the, the last selection, the suggestion that there was a corruption of the electoral system, a suggestion of the courts that were making decisions against that. that argument on a regular basis, $56070.00 cases where it was basically dismissed that there was a corruption of the electoral. i think that i think it a probably solidify his base. and that way there's a general consensus that the us, the traditional system is corrupt. systematically biased against republicans, what it does with independence, whether is another question, whether or not us citizens who are on the fence between voting for bite and work

from actually fall on the side of trump. as a result of this, i don't know, but i do think that the deeper, more ex, essential question is the way in which this verdict on the aftermath of the verdict will be exploited to promote the idea that there is an inherently corrupted and efficient judicial system. with the same way that the argument was made in relation to the us electrical system. and then the question i think for americans then becomes if that's the argument being made, what argument is being made to rectify that problem? has this been a systemic problem? is it something that's only happening on selective instances? i think this is a very dangerous road to go down when you systematically been to begin to question really key elements of us society like traditional system like the educational system, like the cdc, for example, during coven, and i see this is part of the much broader pattern of generating this trust for these institutions. wonder if we can just talk about sentencing for a little better because obviously at trump was found guilty on $34.00 charges he

could face for years in prison for each of those. i mean, what are the chances that he will go to present at all? and how would that actually would, could he face the consecutive legal concurrently? i think it's very unlikely that trump goes to prison. judge murph sean has bent over backwards to be fair in this case, despite a lot of the defend formation that trump and his supporters have put out. he had trump violated his gag order, his bond conditions repeatedly over and over again. motion did virtually nothing. find him a $1000.00 for each violation. he excluded a lot of evidence that trump wanted to present. he shrugged off a tax on his family and himself personally. and so at the sentencing, this is now the same judge that has to decide whether trump is going to go to jail, go to prison, or get put on probation. so it could be a combination of those things. i think prison is unlikely, but the,

the question is would it be sentenced to county jail time 6 months 30 days? certainly he will get probation that that's a given. um. so i think that was part of likely what he's probably gonna get. sorry . well, what, what does probation mean? an intense uh, so people outside the united states and might not understand exactly what that entails. probation means you have to typically check in once a month with a probation officer who monitors your activity. there could be some restrictions on your travel, although most likely again, he will be bent over backwards and accommodated once again because he's a politician running for office. and he will be given special exceptions that other people on probation don't have. he could be randomly drug tested, he could be ordered to perform community service, all of those things, but, but typically to get a break like probation after you're convicted at trial, you have to show remorse. you've got to apologize,

you have to behavior so clearly donald trump is not going to do any of those things . so most likely, if he gets that kind of sense, he's going to get the benefit of leniency despite the fact that he doesn't do anything, a normal criminal, defend, it would do to deserve that. yeah, i think trump has said since being found guilty at the he's called the judge a tyrant. so obviously as you mentioned this the same judge that is going to sentence him, greg. i mean trump is really coming in his defiance and firey as ever. and i can see you smiling and nodding along that. i mean, it's obvious, even though it takes dreamily well for him in the past. do you expect him to continue with that policy? i do, and it is sometimes i've done very critical of it. i thought to the press conference yesterday was too long and it was me and during a times and, and, you know, he does that well, it rallies, but that wasn't really the for him for, for, you know, to, to communicate that way. and so yeah, he's running that risk of, of annoying the judge and, you know, the sentence is,

is coming on july 11th. it's only 4 days before the republican national convention . so i'm, i'm always a little bit worried about his unfiltered rhetoric. but on the other hand, it really works for him. and so you know what, when i was supported, ronda sat just in the primary process. i was not, you know, a mag a big trump supporter. but you know, now that it's a binary choice. and i realized what's been done with, you know, weaponized thing, adjust the system where selective justice i'm, you know, i like many, i sympathetic to what he's gone through. and i think that, you know, as, as you're, you're just said earlier on. we're also worried about what it's done to the 2nd, the justice system in general. and it's just been a sort of distrust or mistrust in it. you're christian, just on the point of trump has come out and accused bite and of pulling the strings behind the scenes here. what do you think that that does to undermine the justice system in america? i think it does a great deal of damage and i think that, you know, you can be critical of us just the system is absolutely nothing wrong with the

citizen of questionings, organizations and systems of power. i mean, that's really what being a citizen is all about is asking questions. and let's remember that for years, many american citizens have been critical of us just the system in his treatment, for example, of african americans and minorities. but when that argument was made, we were told on a regular basis that the united states was the country. it was that we had jury systems that we needed to trust the legal system. but then when and when a decision goes against a candidate, suddenly we are in the middle of an extremely corrupt, extremely politicized legal system. and i think that's where the problem really begins, which is, it's a selective outrage. trump is critical of assessing much the same way that we were critical of the electoral system again in 2020, but i didn't hear a great deal of criticism in the electoral system in 2016, 21. so either we believe the argument that in 4 years we went from an extremely efficient electrical system to one that was completely broken and from an extremely

efficient, proper legal system. the one that's been highly politicized is i think that is the problem there, that you have these very conflicting arguments and ordinary citizens who are not educated on the legal system. or maybe not that familiar with the political system even are left with a kind of a vacuum and which they have to fill with certain kinds of information. and that vacuum leads to this trust and that this trust can lead to things like, for example, question we have some weren't either legal system. and that's not necessarily a problem. but it's a problem when it's less completely wide open for citizens to make up their mall. mine with almost no information or with this information. yeah, and this just, the system isn't exactly over if it's a trump, at this point in time, is single that he's going to appeal on a couple of counts wrong. he said that basically that the judge was conflicted. any argued that he wanted a venue change, which was denied that they wouldn't be able to get a fee of trial in manhattan. i mean, what are the chances he's actually going to be successful here on appeal?

and how long does that process tag as well? first of all, appeals on those grounds, you know, the various conspiracy theories that biden is behind this prosecution of which there's no evidence. and no evidence been presented that binding or the binding campaign has anything to do with this whatsoever. the only thing that they point to is the fact that one of the prosecutors on the team who didn't even do most of the trial, michaelangelo work and the justice department. but it's not unusual for federal prosecutors to go work for the state and vice versa. so that's basically the basis of the conspiracy. and in fact, michael, glandular was brought into the to the manhattan, da's office to head up the white collar unit, and to do housing law, he does a whole bunch of things he wasn't just brought in to prosecute trump, which is the conspiracy. so that part of his appeal will not work. the, the main issue for his appeal is what, how this law was applied,

some of the big charities of the law, and he has a legitimate appeal. the problem for him is that's not going to be resolved until after the election. yeah. great. of just wanna take a step back now and just think about how consequential this verdict actually might be when it comes to the election in november. because some, some legal problems aren't exactly new and we do know, greg, that his advice really is baked in, isn't it? is this going to make any difference? what so we have it to the outcome of november. and i think it could surely went with the base that's for sure, but i think it could if a certain percentage of republicans will not vote for him with a conviction. and that was some of the polling that was, that was coming out several months ago. but i think the things have changed since then. and then as see the people that aren't necessarily supporters of the trunk coming out in the saying how absurd this trial and indictment were and you know, they can, they just saw the president trump reference andy mccarthy from the national review

yesterday at least once maybe twice in his speech, you know, any, mccarthy is not a trump supporter. stop going to vote for him. he never has, even though he's a republican islander. sure. what susan, the democrats will never vote for trump hasn't focused the trunk. you know, and he's, you know, basically said, of course the jury convicted him because they were essentially the, you know, told, or it's a to convict by the, by the judge that again, that's just alan thursday, which is the opinion. i'm not, that's not validating that, but i think you know, the, but there is some concern and i'm glad we're talking about it with this, you know, about the election interference or, or, you know, going back to 2020 and it's, and yes it's part is and whoever loses complains that the election was illegitimate . but just like hillary clinton said after she lost and 16 and of course had stacy abrams. and george has said that, you know, she won the election. she said that for 4 years before losing by 9 points to the, to the sitting governor of georgia. so you know, this, it's not healthy. it didn't work by the way, in 2022 in the mid terms. you know,

most of the elections in ayers or the people obsessed with 2020 did not too well or lost in their, in their elections even though they won their primaries. and so i don't think it's a winning strategy. but i think in this case, this is a little different because you have so many people. megan kelly, for example, who are not trump fans, or trump supporters or an actual actually now saying i'm, i'm going to vote for trump in what we're saying. i think you mentioned this earlier. i mean, his fundraising, if it's have gone through the roof since the varies was handed them well over $50000000.00 has come into his uh, his campaign. christian, what does that tell you about his support and what does do you think it says about child support? is that they're actually willing to dismiss the justice system completely at this point in time because, you know, they, they didn't get the verdict that they thought trump should, does a well, i think it's fix to evict the most those cultural victim hood a little bit here. that this is sort of the which ones against the trump and the

republican party, which is precisely an argument that the republicans in front, they've been pushing for quite some time. and not just within the legal system. of course we're talking about the same thing in terms of media coverage or it education universities, whatever it might be, is the sort of us versus the world mentality. which is pretty interesting because, i mean, you're talking about a lot of people with a lot of power talking about the fact that they may have been canceled. i think the fact that he's raised that much money in such a short amount of time speaks to a fairly substantial percentage of the us population that believes that this is the case. and this gets back to the issue that i mentioned before that how dangerous it is. i think the push this notion that you have these kind of structures like for example, that the jury was instructed, the people saying stuff like that. and i don't necessarily think that megan kelly, who worked for fox news around or she was, are necessarily representative of, of all that borderline people have a fairly substantial component of people in the united states who are actually in the middle of independence. and how they're going to vote,

we actually have absolutely no idea, but i think that the amount of money they raise speaks to probably, i would say for non american audiences, it speaks to a much larger base of trump. supporters really do believe that these institutions and society are structurally discriminating against the republicans and distrustfully discriminating strong and underestimating power of the group. as we saw one from one of the 1st time can be a big mistake. and i think we have to be aware of that fact that the support may be better than we actually think. yeah, obviously on the other side of this is joe biden, who's obviously looking to be re elected for the, for the democrats as president. now we've seen him come out and talk about the justice system being the bedrock of america's democracy and the constitution role is that the best way for him to frame this? and what more does he need to do to try and capitalize on this guilty verdict? yeah, well, i'll talk about that in a 2nd, but 1st let me clear up this trump raise $15000000.00. okay. because that is being argued as the harbinger or an indicator of how much the american public is

supposedly rising up and upset about this verdict. first of all, those are numbers that were said by donald trump last night. there is no proof whatsoever of how much he raised we. this is just donald trump, claiming that he raised this much. okay, that we report campaign finance reports quarterly. this is a man who has been, who has just recently convicted of inflating his assets in his finances. this man has done this his whole life. so we'll see when the campaign finance reports come into play, how much he actually raised, and he does the discovery lifetime late that number. but he does have to disclaim how much he fun rise, but that doesn't come out for a long time. so it doesn't that yeah, exactly. yeah, yeah. but could resolve by then and the i'm going to remember. yeah, great. do you want to jump in there? i saw the numbers. yeah, i saw the numbers from when roads and i don't, i don't when read, which is the technical firm that the assistant fundraising,

i doubt they would exaggerate those numbers because it will come back to haunt them if they are. i'm not saying it's, you know, a 100 percent federal election reporting that will kind of drive, but yeah, okay. i would be surprised if they display exaggerated like that. get me wrong if you can just answer the question about barton and how he should know and frame this to benefit his campaign. well, a joe biden, son is right now, being prosecuted in about to go to trial for felony for furniture a felony charge is that almost nobody gets prosecuted for in the united states. so the idea that you know, the justice this apartment is weaponized in jo biden's favor is a bit absurd when his own son is being prosecuted right now. as well as a democratic senator from new jersey is currently in trial right now for fraud charges as well. so i think donald trump is, i mean, not joe biden is very smart to come out and say, look,

i haven't put myself on this scale here. democrats are currently being prosecuted. republicans are being prosecuted and you don't get immunity for your crimes. just because you decided to run for president product. great, which we talked a little bit about this. how this is obviously, this election is going to come down to a small number of swing states like wisconsin and pennsylvania, and even smaller number with in those states. that will probably decide the outcome of the selection of those people paying any attention to this trial does this when the need a one way oven or another in terms of who they will buy for come november. yeah, and i'm really curious to see how the appalling comes out this way to get and we don't have any data. and yet again, it's just like got from what i'm reading over the last couple of days that it will, could potentially help present trump. but there's no doubt this is going to be a very close selection. even of trump sweeps the southern of swing states,

you know, in the nevada georgia, arizona. he still has the wind, one of the 3 midwestern states, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. you know, by and one, all 3 of those states in 2020 trump one on one and 16, but they're pulling basically dead even right now, trump might have a, you know, half a point or a one point lead. that's well within the margin of error. so yeah, it's not going to take much of a one or 2 points swing from this, from this verdict for or against could swing the election. and i think we've to keep an eye in those states by that has to win all 3 trouble needs to have that only has to win once. but again, it's not inconceivable for button to pick up a few points and within those 3 states. yeah. and a christian you obviously and stockholm, can you just give us an idea of the view from, from europe at this point in time? i mean, it does this whole issue, the, the, the live, say legal process and then the response to it. the cause for corruption, the judge is a tyrant. those sorts of things. how does that undermine america's claim of,

you know, world supremacy here? i mean, does it feel like it's being eroded from within well, i mean, i don't want to be so presumptuous as to speak for some of your, um, but uh, i grew up new k and i, i live as waiting for 15 years. uh, as an american, uh, i think the now one of the things that i would say, one of the things that i but shocked people actually in sweden when i 1st told them was when, when frank was convicted were found guilty that i told them that actually that doesn't stop him from running for president. i think that there's one thing that people, you know, when they think about the us justice system, they think of imprisonment. we have a very large prison population that not only can you run for present age are convicted a problem, the guy said to presidential candidates, one for president, some friends. and i mean eugene debs and 1920, and lyndon laroche and 1992. and i do think that i do think that the last not just i think the last 6 they years in the united states has actually eroded this sense. and i think that maybe not just that's not us in europe,

but i would also say international as well. you have to remember that the united states quite often takes the moral high ground on issues of freedom of speech, democracy, elections. trump, us use derogatory terms to refer to countries and for example, africa in the state of their democracy. and when you make those kinds of comments as representatives of a government or a country and you then see presidential candidates who have been convicted of crimes have been found liable. for example, sexual assault in a civil court running for office. whatever you think of the verdict and whatever your opinion about the legal system, it becomes rather difficult then to take, as i said, the moral high ground on legal issues or ethical issues or political issues internationally. and i think that probably the damage is done there. it's that the united states is just like, let the latitude for making these kinds of comments becomes extremely narrow when these kinds of things happen. and i, you could also have as a final point, just throw in here. but these are things that are sort of come out in the open much

as i pointed out earlier. let's also remember the criticism of the us justice system has been made from other elements of us society minority, these poor people for decades, and largely dismissed as being some kind of went up this argument or propaganda against the us legal system. and now we're hearing that it's a completely broken and corrupt system because someone from another area of town has been convicted and that kind of dole standard is very, very hard to ignore, is quite a glaring. actually. obviously a lot of things to happened before the election on november the 5th, we've got the device lighter in june, then there's obviously the republican democrats conventions as well as sentencing. and so there's plenty of what does it go on to the bridge before we get to know them? but thank you very much. christian ronan, great, we really do appreciate your time and your insight into this. thanks so much. well, thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, that's just their adult. com to further discussion, go to well facebook page. that's facebook dot com,

forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. i'll handle is at a inside story. somebody told me christ and the whole team hit by some of the i want people to look closer at the aga sign of this. i point by camera where all the is prefer not to look. i'm right about what it means to be american and about the ordinary people who get caught up us worse filmmaker ralph tags, and also viet time when on the power of political lot. what i'll just story is retail sales about also. and how do we base our past to change our future studio be unscripted want to on? i would just say around the

the colleges the since eas, williamsburg garza thousands of the stimulus hoping indiscriminately displaced really forces are systematically targeting health care infrastructure hospitals. and one of the only safe options to seek refuge until we became targets from us wages war from hospital. i've never seen a soldier inside the hospital. alger 0 world investigates where the east ran is

violating international. no, but targeting supposedly a new crisis. dr. silver on hospitals on tuesday, around the the way laraca and don't know, the top stories on alger 0 pressure is mounting on israel and egypt to reopen the crucial loss of border crossing to allow a deliveries into gossip. stocks are expected in cairo between egypt, israel and the u. s. israel took control of the crossing last month, and hundreds of trucks carrying desperately needed aid are being held at the border . thought about zoom has more now from their law in central guys on the ongoing chloe gentle's crossing board is especially the vice of the rough crossing has

prevented the humanitarian aid float into the goal is this prep including food water, medical supplies, along.