$11000.00 of these murals now during the streets and roofs the stop by lava. the government funded program is part of a larger project to make the area safer and more attractive. 35 year old a male has painted dozens of murals here depicting issues of women's empowerment to scenes from mexican history. she's putting the finishing touches on one of her favorite works so far a piece celebrating the creativity of childhood. you step by what ed is couple of them you role is a project that tries to involve the local community to listen to them, to rescue themes that need visibility. why? because there's so many stories of local neighbors. the history of this town that need towing is double up as not just violence. there's a great history here. and so local heroes now lined the streets of beloved beds, his patience, an elderly couple. as the project has grown and the murals are more and more visible, residents in these communities are increasingly eager to have

a bit of their own personal stories on public display. for 12 currently, there is hundreds of requests from local neighbors to have their murals painted. 8 year old luciana got her wish when she caught the eye of an artist painting nearby . her image now covers an entire world right outside her bedroom window, and she couldn't be happier. main campus at all is the oldest used to be white or grey. well, exactly, but now it's pretty early, it's happier, more colorful. i wake up and say, wow, what a beautiful place again. while it's hard to draw a line between the murals and the security situation in this district of 2000000 people, those involved in the projects say it's popularity speaks for itself. well enough for yourself, mazda c less, and it's one of the most visible project we've had and frontier, when people will buy the murals, they feel safer, and now they don't have to go to museum men, p. c r. they have a free, open

a gallery, right in the neighborhood. residents of you step a lot, but no, it will take more than painting their walls to bring less than change to their neighborhood. but the murals have had an important effect making a marginalized community feel seen again. julia galle, i know i'll just sierra mexico city and a neighborhood in the mexico city is celebrating volkswagen beetle. the call, known as the bug was born in germany, but has a long history of mexico's capital, lo, clean known as well. try the vehicle. it was regularly used as a taxi and even has a neighborhood named after it is continues here on the upstair off to the bottom line state the the, the

. ringback the hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. what if there is no day after in israel's war on gaza? let's get to the bottom line. the last in the health scape it is real has created in gothic is one simple fact. even if there is a ceasefire, there is no way for life to go back to normal for the 2000000 plus palestinians who lived there. the world bank now estimates that it would take almost $20000000000.00 to rebuild guys that to what it was before the war, which was wilfully insufficient anyway. but of course,

it's not about the money. we're talking about an entire population with no access to housing, jobs, health, education. we're getting basic food, water and electricity depends on the ups and downs of is really government coalition partners. and forget about personal safety and security. we're talking about a place that's been forced to become totally dependent on outside aid for decades become. so is this the new normal for gossip? today we're talking with political science as nathan brown, professor of international affairs at george washington university, and currently a fellow at the hamburg institute for advanced study in germany. dr. brown. thank you so much for joining us. let me just start out with questions about the day after in gaza and you've written pretty compellingly. then maybe the plan all along was not to think about the day after and gauze, at least from it is really perspective. tell us what you meant for sure. i mean, i think from the beginning israel has been fighting in different war than the americans have thought they have been fighting. the israelis went in with some very,

very ambitious, but pretty vague. war aims about destroying how bass is military and governing capability. but if it's clear what that meant, what something a little bit more ambitious and ongoing than what the americans had in mind. the americans would look at this and say, how we've seen this before. this is what we did, new rock, this is what we didn't have cameras that where we went in with a plan for fighting and winning the war, but not thinking about what happened afterwards. and that assumed that there was going to be a clear into the military phase and then a beginning of a civilian reconstruction phase. and i don't think these were at least have ever thought that way. they thought in terms of, you know, what, you, they, that there's a term forever which is used in a negative way, but these really stopped. they weren't for her war that this was not something that would ever be finally resolved. they weren't looking, say, as united states did in iraq to say, let's fix this and go home. it's,

we're here for life. this is just what the hand we've been dealt with. and this population in gaza is unmanageable. and the idea that we could go in and permanently fixed it and then leave and forget about it is just not in the car so. so this is going to be an ongoing military conflict that will have different phases and different degrees. but it's not as if it's going to have a clear and what you're saying is so important and it actually didn't hit me until i read your article. most of us have been talking about a linear process. so linear, you know, october 7th happen is real, responded we thought that would be an action moment and then an after action moment and then the world would come back and rebuild with the good guys in, in, in palestine essentially, you know, and kind of resolve all of this, that linearity has been overwhelmingly part of the i would call the international discourse on this. but you're say something very different. and if you writes that he is released from the very beginning, knew that this would include massive dislocation of gases population for an

undefined period, significant destruction of infrastructure. and the elimination of those un bodies that is providing education, other social services. regardless, all of the things that you laid out that said israel was very aware it would be doing, are being defined, potentially as ingredients of genocide increasing as a war crimes readings of ethnic cleansing by the rest of the world. am i getting this right? oh absolutely, i mean i think that it was clear from the beginning that what is real had in mind with a sort of uh with with was this a steel of military action that would have horrified people if they knew what was involved on october 8th and in fact, you even had some early statements from is really saying we have essentially an international blank check for now. that's going to run out at some point when people realized the scale of what is going on. so do you think that is real? has any n game in mind now?

or do you believe that this blur of what looks like atrocities from others is the in game will, is really, is a complicated place and different as railways have different games in mind. i think for the far right, which is influential. now i'm talking about people like got been beards. motors, these are people who are in the cabinet up under really the extreme right. the end of the game is a wednesday between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea. which is a jewish state, and any palestinian who wants to live there as a guest is welcome to do so. but they'll never be in full citizen. that's an extreme position, but they make clear wouldn't be so bad of palestinians and guy that just took up and left and and, and as i say, that's an extreme position, but it, they are part of the government. i think for somebody like netanyahu, you'll use the expression, we're going to get rid of the bad guys and put in the good guys. there are no good guys for him. and so it's not as if he's talking about mass expulsions like that.

like like it's hard, right? blink is, but he's thinking we're just, we've got to be there. and again, they were fairly clear statements from the beginning that there will have to be, you know, is real. the way they would put in these riddles responsible for his own security and gaza, meaning we're there forever. that doesn't necessarily mean whole re occupation like the west bank, but it means we go and we do whatever we will perhaps be we have to do whenever we feel we have to do it. and that's essentially an ongoing and, and in depth. and it is really military presence and gaza. we've seen recently an interesting kind of tension inside israel and i'd be loved your comments and that one, you know, benny and stepping out of the work cabinet. we've actually seen these really military pride to enact and say they're going to enact humanitarian pauses so that aiden relief can get in to people. i need to remind audience those people, many of these people are innocent. people and innocent victims. cotton advice here

in this moment. ok, and you see is really cabinet officials coming out in the slamming the is really military for humanitarian gestures. and this is all happening in broad daylight, broad visibility overtly. and i'm just sitting years. why? oh, i mean, who needs a court, international court of justice when it's actually happening? but your thoughts on some of the internal is really tensions that seem to be bubbling to the surface as well. you know, the yeah, there's just a british idea of collective cabinet responsibility, which has never really sunk in very deeply among israeli cabinets. it's there they, they, they go after each other and public criticizing each other in public, criticize a decision that the cabinet voted on the day before if they, if they vote against the league like crazy and so, and as a result, we have a pretty good idea of the arguments that are going on, i, i mean, we have for the board to the extreme, right? which says, this is a joy state and i do a state only guess a welcome,

as long as they're peaceful and, and then if they can yahoo, basically what i would say is what a center write down is really terms, which basically says there will be no palestinian state will deal with palestinians in terms of local communities and so on, but, but not as a national entity and the welcome to run their own schools and pick up their own trash and right doing parking tickets. but for serious issues, it's going to be the israeli state and control. and then there's also what i would call kind of the, the basic is really security establishment. and they are looking at this probably a little bit closer to the american position. they're not necessarily went into a 2 state solution. in fact, they're skeptical of it. but they say, look, we've got a working relationship with a palestinian authority. we may not like them the of the authorities in ramallah. but with that security coordination with them, we've got a very close security relationship with united states. we don't want to mess that up. so there tend to be a little bit more, i would say,

conscious and was bondsville in the game as, as, as the americans would see them. and that's a real context. and of course there's a left wing in israel that says, palestinians are national community. we've got to come to terms with them as a nation and they are basically marginalized right now. they're there, but they don't pull well, they don't have anybody in the cabinet. they don't have that many voices in his. ringback public life that left weight, which it goes, things that are similar to what the bike and ministration is saying is at this point pretty weak. or do you think that this notion that you just share that maybe uh, just really prime minister netanyahu and others have that there will never be a palestinian state that they'll figure out some structure. you wrote about this in your article bill sub contract to some palestinians to take care of those daily life needs. i'm just wondering, is that realistic in any sense? how would that work? am i missing something here? or is that is the equation design?

never to be solved. i think, and again maybe it's done isn't, is not my equation, but i'll try to present it sympathetically from i think a new really point of view that's, that's a hand they've been, don't know. it's not going to be solved. it can be managed, but it can be solved. so how do you manage it? well, it looks a little bit like what's going on in the west bank right now where you have this week, palestinian dougherty, you have pallets and the security forces coordinate with the, with, with these real. and the palestinian authority doesn't like it, the pallets and the security forces don't really like it. base they're, they're, they're, they're really low by considerable portion for the population is you're just sub contracting for these really occupation. but it's the only way to keep the, the, the little islands a palestinian autonomy alive. so i think that might be the model for them. one which the israelis have security control. again they go where they want to do what they want whenever they want. but they have workable arrangements with local

leaders and you know, the pallets and the authority, the westbank collapses. that might mean, look, a war lord, it might mean a local, locally prominent individual who says, you know, i'll be the interlocutor between people in this village and, and, and, and these really occupation. and maybe you could do something like that and gaza, which as some of the population is, is, is, is private lives in a lot of tribes. so we go to the private leaders. sometimes there'll be like refugee camps that have their own kind of spontaneously. ringback organize committees will deal with the cam commit a will deal with whoever is in charge where he's got guns and whoever came in for his order and we'll just make deals with, with, with them to basically give them privileges. give them benefits that they can funnel to bite off part of their population. i mean, what you're really talking about is a kind of manage the chaos in this you talk about word lords, i mean, this 1st conversation i've had along this line, but you know, it's resonating with me. we had michael hannah, the international crisis group on recently. and michael basically said that the

united states and the rest of the world continues to talk about the 2 state solution and an aspiration for that out of desperation. because it can't figure out how to formulate any other potential governance dimension there. and it doesn't want to talk about a somalia on the border of, of israel. what are your personal thoughts on? and i think that's exactly right. if i can give an analogy which might sound a little bit too light hearted american policy. and i would say kind of the general thrust of international diplomacy is a little bit like a cartoon character that is run off a cliff and is afraid to live below for fear that it will fall. that's the 2 state solution. it is one that in public, you buy them this way. she keeps talking about a european leaders keep talking about it in public, in private. everybody knows that the 2 state solution is not in the car. is

it not in the cards in terms of the real debate? is, is it dead forever, or is it just in long term hibernation for decades? but, but the idea that you've been a viable tuesday diplomacy right now, i don't think any, anybody really believes. but once you accept that, then what are you for, for the implications of that? are i think just to distasteful them from a policy point of view. but the trump administration, when it was in office, it actually basically came close to embrace it. say hey, that's great, will it palestinians have little islands. they can call it a state if they want, but it's not is going to be under is really control. but especially. ready for the democrats, it's really, really tough to say that because the next step would be, well, wait a 2nd. if tuesday's our company, then what is this thing? this is beginning to look a little bit like a par tight. i think that a word is one that divides the democratic party. it divides generations within the

democratic party. it divides the left from the okay kind of dom. ringback more disinterest wings drive, it divides the more establishment from from, from, from, you know, single sanders wings. and so, and so it is in policy terms and in domestic political terms, just very, very uncomfortable territory to think about what you are right now in germany and your, you know, home base is george washington university down the street were from where i'm filming this, and and on college campuses throughout this country, but also what george washington university you had in camp minutes. you had young people basically protesting america. and the by the ministrations approach to v as real gaza crisis. and also, i should say counter protests a to them, it's been very diverse if i'm interested in what this is doing to united states and in the middle of a presidential contest. and one of the, you know, possibilities in november because we don't have a stack deck here in the united states, is that president trump could come back, could be president bite. and this could be a contributing factor,

a to that. and is that something you think is really pi mister netanyahu is, is, is hoping for counting on trying to design. and if i were to happen, i just be interested in your reflections as an american. what is that going to do? given the divide, we already see in the united states. oh, gotcha. yeah. so you talked about managed chaos and now you describe the almost unmanaged chaos. so you've let me turn 1st, you know, to, to, to the campus protest. yes, a very divisive in the united states. you know, when i, when i, when i talk to the sort of students that i have a g, w, this is seen not through the lens at people of, of my generation. and i'll let you know i'm old enough to remember the 1967 what? it's not like people from my generation side, but it's really seen almost as a social justice causes global social justice caught, you know, it. can it sort of the cousin of the black lives matter, a movement at an international level, and that's just not how many people in the older generation see that. so it's

a split democratic party is a fascinating split within the american jewish community between the older and establish generations for which is realist, absolutely. central to american jewish identity. and the younger generation is as, wait, we didn't sign up for this. what are they doing? again in these, these are gross generalizations. they're certainly plenty of young, jewish or very supportive of israel, but, but, but this is what you see, what you see playing out of and then germany, i would say you're aware of where i am right now. you've got similar kinds of debates. also late on top of that is a feeling among german politicians that, that for historical reasons which everybody understand. they don't want any daylight between them and israel, they don't want to be seen as a band guard of, of, of, of criticism for israel. and one other thing that i do want to mention is college campus demonstrations that have one other interesting effect which didn't get a lot of publicity in the united states. and that is they were,

they got tremendous international attention. you know, i have is really friends and say, i don't want to go to united states right now. and if i did, i certainly wouldn't feel safe on the campus. and, and they have this image that, that american campuses are just the zones of your, indistinguishable from barriers university and the, and the palestinian university on the west bank for palestinians though they suddenly see, wait a 2nd. the one was ignoring us and all of a sudden, you know, in wash dc, los angeles, people are demonstrating force. it's really, really hard me propellers it to different emotional reactions that depending on, on where you, where you come in. but, but again, american college campuses are the center of attention in large parts of the world. now you asked about trunk and i don't know, and i'm not sure he knows what, what he would do. some of the people who are very much affiliated with sort of that, that trump plan or that the deal of the century, jared cushion or might not go back into a i,

i prompted ministration. david friedman, who was in bassett or to israel, was somebody who was really overly embracing the settler movement. and openly advocating for annexation is really annexation of the westbank. really a one state solution with that wednesday being israel has made clear he wants to go back in, but it's not clear to me what so or is it a trumpet? ministration is a little bit of the wild card. there is no hiding with that. you're planning people in on the as rarely. right to say buying back this on october 7th, but since then there's been some problems we wouldn't mind trying our luck with a trumpet administration, but again, nobody knows what truck. ready actually do in the office. you were as i understand it, president of the middle east studies association and and for audience movie studies association is really a collection of academics, intellectuals that are thinking about moving studies often organized by assume to the american political science. so seizure, other groups like that is the quality of discourse. what it used to be is the

honesty, the ability to communicate, to be open and honest. cuz i, we have been talking a little bit about, you know, the challenges of censorship over some of these discussions that it's also playing out in american society and around the world. i loved your reflections on whether we still have health in something like in the middle east studies association as well. my short answer would be um, debates are pretty trailing public all over the world. and within the middle east studies association, i would say, you know, the real debate is not is israel guilty of war crimes, but it is real guilty of genocidal waterfront or just other kinds of waterfront is the the bulk of the membership of the middle east studies association is it would be harshly critical. i mean i shouldn't say that the. busy but there are plenty of people who has a more interest city and in medieval poetry or modern numerous mastic, rather than is israel and palestine by those who are. and i would say that would be

extremely critical. and that of, of, of is related to the question is just on what terms. but there's another point that i think gibson missed. i mean, i sometimes joke down glen, i'm in germany for the year because i don't speak german and therefore i can't understand what people say to each other. and in a, at a public level. that's true, that just just the, the, the rigidity and the shrillness of the discourse really is it's something that is disheartening to somebody who has been following this for a while in private. i think things are very different when i go into classroom given, i guess what's your budget and, and as an a golf car, actually i talked to some of the palestinian demonstrators here in, in the city of homburg, a couple weeks ago people understand that this is a political moment, it is a horrible moment, and there are forces at work which they don't completely understand. so when you get in private and when people are so posing in order to be pro with this or pro,

that i think you find an awful lot more new words. and i'm actually some as gratified by the kinds of discussions you could have in private. so i'm interested in this tension between how we talk about the day after and rebuilding when the task is so gargantuan of what would be needed versus the destination. uh, that's happened in people's lives. and i'm, i love is, is, are you know, final thought here. your thoughts on how we can navigate that conversation better than we are? oh gosh, well, yeah, so the task again material terms is going to be enormous. but to me the task cannot even be get in till you have the political ground work laid. right. so you have rounds of devastation, much less severe than the current one. but give guys east avenue international airport. destroyed. that was a port destroyed and a so the idea of rebuilding and the situation in which there is ongoing violence or the possibility that recurring just doesn't make any sense anymore. it's so for me,

it's a question of laying a political ground round work for a true reconstruction that allows people to rebuild their lives. and even then, as you say, you've got a deeply traumatized society in, in gaza. the best majority of gods and have been made homeless and many more than once in the course of the fighting since since since october. and you've got a west bank society that is not subject to that level of violence, but is watching other palestinians and have this happen to them. and they are traumatized you ineffectual as well. there's just a level of despair in palestinian society. there was even before october 7th, i think it was that that made i'm asked think october's 7th windham domestic support, that level of despair. and now i think is going to be just bottomless. so we're in for a period not simply of, of physical reconstruction, but political reconstruction and even motional and mental health reconstruction.

that is a task of deal on the order of magnitude that we haven't seen in this conflict ever before. we'll have to leave it there. george washington university political science as nathan brown. thank you so much for joining us from germany today. thank you. thanks for having me. so what's the bottom line? are we deluding ourselves to think that x number of billions of dollars over x number of years is going to fix and restored gaza? yes, we are. that's just how the international community likes to frame things. every global leader knows you can't replace the schools and the hospitals in the homes and the agriculture of a region that has grown organically for centuries and even millennia. but we don't know how to talk about 20000 orphans or thousands of amputees or how to restore millions of lives. so we talk about what's comfortable and that's concrete and dollars, rather than mothers and sisters, and dads and brothers who were innocent and now are dead, or are maimed or homeless and where male nourished. look at the recent 8 conference

that was held in jordan, 3 and a half $1000000000.00 was pledged over 3 years. that's not a marshall plan. that's rebuild white. feel good promises that actually achieve nothing. with full us support. israel is now created a global bleeding ulcer that's going to challenge superpowers and nations for decades become. and that's the bottom line, the a working class community driven football club with some remarkable funds. left leaning socialist politics. what you see on the says those are the beliefs of the funds to pays for phones and discrimination. wide focus, bringing people together. it's quite unlike anywhere else. i lost my lot, white sports football interest on ours is it runs on counting the

cost few k policies of later on, but a comic plan. so the election manifesto has been, who can bring, we'll change the you have slept, play a terrace on chinese by the electric vehicles because that spunk afraid will eat on last 5 popping pay package. is he worth it? counting of the cost on i will to 0 the that

she has to read his spend most of his life on the water. he's the fisherman, just like others and his family. but things are different now from when he was a boy. in 2022 long days mcats would declared and endangered species. i'm the new family at my job. he's not at school today. he's taking us to the band. so if the only stop leak in central denver would. yeah. he sees that he used to see monkeys in droves, him hunting for crap. i down there the more now. so that's why i don't see that time. what did it mean, molnar? calling me about the power while the off. i can only logan carnegie. the monkeys are frightened for good reason. traffic is got you and sell them to the

highest bidder to buy medical research. this black market creed, not only indeed just was probably me populations, but books public health at risk. because unlike captive bred monkeys, there's no guarantee the animals of pathogen free. the at least $43.00 palestinians are killed in it's very strikes the talking to the owl shots, the refugee camp. now 2 foot in northern guns and carried on. so this is all just aeronautics and also coming is ready forces, ty, an injured palestinian man to the boot of a miniature vehicle doing a rage and occupies westbank as well as was foundation of orders.