for you to decide if we want to create all this technology roommates, do we still have power of choice, age guides, which actually autonomy and operating in doing this is the apple kind of technician, oh, is it already too late? so if corporations this more power might in the bill and entire country, the future's going to be good for the i would be nice if to be questions as well. as human on al jazeera, kenya was shaken by mass demonstrations against proposed tax hikes, protested that she was the president of failure to live up to his election promises . so the government says the finance that is needed to pay off the debt all the on risk to be contained, with an escalation even said, this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on them. it will started with peaceful protests against a finance bill tabled in kenya, st. paul, them and that includes tax increases to raise extra funds. the government says it needs to pay off public debt. the protests intensified crowd spinning the parliament compound, and the military was deployed. security forces use live rounds coming and injuring many of the find president william root hope the demonstrations treasonous. and promised to take a test on what he called and key. we will discuss what options the canyon government has this public. and because the 1st this proposed by up to some good food protesters calling on president william route to to resign from inside can use parliament. the storm, the compound with m piece passed the controversial fine and spill that includes tax increases, local media, se and peas were evacuated through and underground tunnel. moments later,

one of the buildings visibly demonstrations had begun peacefully, organized on social media and led by young people. phillips utilize the own, has it. what's on the let them leave it doesn't overly into the data in this country is going to be one to us and we're going to going to lift the lid that's happened. police responded with tear gas more to canada, and eliza munition. the military was deployed and the president described. some of the protesters as trees in the petitioning and public authorities, by a section of law abiding citizens, spoke to the public opinion, was infiltrated on, hijacked by a group of organized criminals. the government says the finance bill will bring in much needed funds to pay off public debt. currently at 70 percent of gross domestic product. it hopes to raise $2700000000.00. the critics say,

ordinary people are paying the price for the heavy spending by state officials and the raising taxes on property. few and small businesses will only worsen the cost of living crisis. as one is sending out is because we have time for a tie at the 400 people unemployed and you keep pushing this, you need to talk to. no one is for setting up here. you can not supposed to have this much. the need more mass action is planned and protest or say they won't set to put anything less than the bill being scrapped once and for all we're doing this. i'm getting food, i'll just 0 inside story that spring. and i guess joining us from nairobi is, has been kind of in ga, director of the whole and international institute for strategic studies, research and policy think tax based of the canyon capital and johannesburg as

weston chanel, who is an international relations scholar. the university of the what was his friend and of the book, political pallet and tribalism in kenya. and also in the canyon capital is, let's see. i know num, why, of the east africa director as human rights watch. very well. welcome to all of you house, and i'll start with you and i, roby. president. william rudo was elected 2 years ago on a promise of helping the poor has he let them down i think is, let's see this, this is the, i'm on a list of the premises are gonna be failed. i think part of it is informed by the increasing that cost of living. ringback which date on compass mentioned, somebody's ounce of increasing employment. now some of these factors may not exactly be rude towards making some of these has to do in the battery. so we can actually kind of makes actually the conditions that are being constrained by the fact as you know, outside one, okay? yes. control. however,

i think these increasing competition is studies out of increasing comic difficulties and social despondency. i know just to be the in the country, but i pretty i, we've been to reach him. i don't want to talk about exactly why kenya is at this point that it's at now beyond, you know, the lease has finance bill west and how much of it is because kenya has to pay back international lenders, china, the international monetary fund. and how much of it is it because of his, of corruption and mismanagement that the people on the street say they shouldn't have to be punished for thank you. somebody movies. i think the printer to control the, the t's is the big. that's the, to the okay. now is that a part of the street is across the country? echo testing that goodness, big piece of ground corruption. oh, good, good thing. so i might have to politically lead impunity. i really this speak. i

said, the basic state of affairs, the dates we just fixed the dates such as the for the last 16. 0 yes. basically, did you ration or the dependent leads have related to the status as i've signed for positive communication, pass on to that region and of the marginalized or the 19. so canyons have been done by the one that's been because of the 290 nations. it's going to be published, the father is published and these don't jobs. these guys are going to jump there, finish college, completing the texas. i'm making the basically getting nothing of the evidence. so it is the conditional subjects we just found. expiration the nose view, which is the government,

especially the president. we didn't insist on pushing down the can draw despite against having expressed opposition like getting into these big okay, let's see. i know what do you make of how the government, the president has handled the protest so far. when he did address the nation, he said that the protests have been hijacked by info traces and criminals. is there any evidence that you know what he calls criminals, or even people that have interests other than protesting against the taxes, have in any way taken over the protests will have a significant presence to thank you. let's remember that yesterday's part is a kind of a national from the test that i've been going on since last week. so the same process went down and left click on task that progressed all time savings there to

continue those practice due yesterday and then tomorrow. and tomorrow was basically the last payment will go all the way to scott house to. that's the office on the agenda. if you remember last week, the process are very, very peaceful. from starts to the end on the yesterday, the product. so a bit before a few things started happening, one of the police started a fine job uh into the book as close. and then the 2nd thing, i think the government had organized code to purchase based on the people of the support team to finance, be defiant. and that means this definitely can take, you can do it on monday of the book, test tasks out loud. and that's what supporting be also protest, i know i think about to seventies tech because when something happens there it's always going to be a conflict. so so the 2 things that police are,

will continue finding to have that something that i'm starting to use 9. i mean these are the best off or there is a kind of practice which deliberately made decision was about noon. something else happened, then mamma, color and defiantly went ahead and possibly be despised people, anything out to them. i'm not saying that sounds, it sounds like you are saying pretty much what you're saying is the government is responsible for the violence by shooting on protest as by organizing counter protests and bypassing a bill. that's so many people are against hassan, who, what do you make of who is out on the streets of? it doesn't seem to be from what we can tell a political, a religious, tribal ethnic regional dimension to these protests and protest is how much of a challenge does that pause?

that is indeed the case. how much of a challenge is it for the government? these are the common people, protesting or the bread and budget issues. it's always easy to do with an ident bible in any way the control structure. now when you're dealing with a group, very spontaneous and extreme to white spray. organize the bed without a definable structure to be able to deal with it becomes increasingly difficult. and i think that is why the security services have been about, well, it costs because you are having partners across more than 30 countries. oh boy. not so much. and you spend the same time, but also it is the kind of participant concept cross ethnic of political will be just fine. and that becomes also very had to be able to do that. now, one thing that has happened is that the process goes up money to ship the east coast as well as the narrative. now the government is reacting add

to a situation where the new position right now has to compete. and you said you're on the bus from the book just as ment, possibly of young people and mostly known to us getting nation see, you know, at least in pain. and so it is extremely difficult for the government to have to respond to these. now, outside of fairly or messaging that he's going to speak to us compromise at like come with permission coming, you know out you need immediate right now use the visa more towards about sort of visiting the thing that's be the itself. it's going to be increasingly difficult to me and to be able to pacify this protest of the especially was he doing that kind of the tensions and the kind of sentiment that raising the exchange the bank student wife breakfast, the country. and that's something else we have to be. that's a very interesting point about the compromise west and several of the most contentious taxes including levies on bread, women's menstrual power, likes,

children's nappies had only been dropped before the bill was passed. the government did compromise on some things and yet the and the not only remained but intensified . so what are the taxes that remain and why people still so angry? i think the people i'm going because they don't trust the government of the big waves already the government had really set about those provisions and the billing because that dissipated the back porch and then what about gosh, you know, and 6 present don't pull out those provisions to try i think i and i think i said no, they would not be weeks. beautiful on things. i love it. you mentioned that basically by turning everything, whether it's either cut, whether it's track, whether it's the people's incomes,

basic or the goodness. i say the test to the boss is being indented, talk to them to the ball, and yet they kind of settled rising that no jobs for young people find themselves. no even comes for their efforts. so it leaves, it's because when the, when he was in this kind of competing company just missed a fix it. but yeah, let's do the problems of the, just the devil. ingredients. and he was a very specific, nice bunch based on the bottom systems where i need to be specific and you want to listen to goodness, i think not. so they're wondering how come use that see is that responding to the things that you've got paid on successfully? so the voice of pride gets to click on products. oh, the re visited you open to that. of course they want to definitely 3. he was the deputy president for 10 years general and we have some,

a fascinating breaking news coming into us that i'm just being told about in my yeah, which is that president william rudo has said he will not sign this bill and to know upon them and approved it, it has to be signed by the president. i would just hearing with him router is saying that he will not sign this bill. let's see, i know how much of a is this a victory full protest as will they trust this? will it be the end of protests? one of the things i've been saying is that the defense to be it was just something got or um the, the reason why they go to where they, because to be a lot. so used to be is that people have been on that bad number of things that they've been seeing in deciding this test, which is high in borrowing a lot of them, which people cannot see what is doing at the club and asking in the government the bottom about to see what they're doing. this was the apartment, but they don't see what their money is. good. the 2nd is the cause. why people have

mentioned the fees and promises, and there's a higher level option. they could be the ports of corruption on monday, just been getting most undefined not be found funded by that it's of peace. i look at the money to areas that i'm not necessarily i also to be provisions to a, to set up people for you to consider adding products. and the balance on the steps that you put in government southern to show where capacity in this money coming from. and i say this is the money that can be done by just using that money planning to focus on them. so it's a much, much bigger discussion if you use it to what can you see them just the finance on this part, not to be part of something just the last 2 other similar approaches about let's just say not to be which dependent folks for the boss and to continue to talk to people and can keep them in solutions. we just target that people send that piece of paper clips on people can also not be up to 45 percent of the the government,

us taxes. absolutely. we have seen a number of new taxes. we have seen an increase in taxes since president rudo came to power 2 years ago. how soon? what do you make of this news that, you know, william ruth was saying he's not going to sign this bill. and what to what sienna was saying, you know, talking about the much bigger problems over the decades in colorado, in can you of corruption of mismanagement. couldn't this be the beginning of a government of the government to looking at those much deeper problems? the president's promise not to assign these b, o, he's actually just completely no cast conference goes up or off. that's to the, engage the project so, so you know, my to say from lots of stakeholder kind of approach to ensure that the young people listen to now. but it is on a time to not be escalation. but how so i think opportunity to have

a more comprehensive i think, approach towards some of the issues that have to make the country of course corruption as well. i'm trying to see all of these, this about governance. you know how, but they can political east coast on a big city, even the visually economy to what really crow that have contributed or conspire to put they to do. they kind of by environment we see right now to being laid by the young people. oh no, this proportion to be affected by the economy of considering but a to some of them are going to school or the out of school, but they happen to jump and they have no hook. and that so they, they just kind of environment to repeat the. ready question, what, how do you see this playing out? i mean, what can, what options of the canyon government has? does it have, if it's not going to pass this bill? what does it have to say to the international monetary fund in china as it gets around the debt that it does have?

well, especially in some news getting the developing story. it's, it's the fortunate leaves that you talk to come to these that the last set to be last triplicate on media over $25.00. we don't know, they didn't speak of young people. well, extrajudicial to show today it used to do. it did not have to come to these because because i expressed that is content that goodness to be so that kind of so uh uh, of the things that really students engage in kind of the don't. so he's not going to send to the bill is going to look for struct that does this young people. it's an important because to me, yet mostly you to miss as lovely these places because he appreciates the concise of the kenyan citizen, having been as a politician for the last 30. yes. less on housing guarantee on it says formation.

agend. he has to be trained to get done electronically and people, so he's not signing, but west of he's not signing the bill. so has he betrayed the canyon people? has he lost legitimacy? is, is he, is he not going to re gain? some of that legitimacy is this, not an indication that he has listened to the people. i don't the lease, i don't have to come to these these because of the daily cost $6.00. that's the point for the cost, the trends, the destruction of property, but maybe not people and that it's so you be sure to execution the security the see progress. but other nice watch is presidents. the police can go to good, give an extra decent on somebody executions will have guess the objections for young people. so i think going full, i bet you he manages to you know how to use for your time

government solutions. he would have really an updated task when he comes to the election because of my job. so can you know, so as we speak now, they may not know what's coming next elections, but i don't think there will be, but for he's in the election. i don't think you should be more on as well. that is a long way way. and of course they say that a week is a long time in politics. the next election is 3 years away. let's see. i know how bad exactly did things get, you know, west and this talking about what he's cooling, extrajudicial killings. we've heard of journalists being injured. we've heard of a doctor who was helping to protest is dying from a gunshot wound. so just how bad things get, how worried would president william route, so be about how things look not just to kenya, but with the united nations commenting on what's happening and kenya's image. it

went from there to quote. so you're getting it's, it's not really what we have not confirmed on other things, but what we're having some of the key things that's happened and that will be on the front of in, around 5 pm on the other kid. and that's happened at the front of in around 3 pm. the cause of people who, who died, i think around 3 pm to about a 5 pm. nobody knows bucks could be about that. and but those, those numbers i'm going to be going from the can use that on the dry at night by the minister, the under the reports of kings in other parts of the country that some haven't confirmed. i think when the confirmation of people trying to get on tom, what has to be if i've been doing these products, i think it could also uh, i know that they mention to the products. uh secondly, the deployment of the military. um like boss yesterday i think it was uh the 1st time but kind of seen the government deploying night buster gave you that protest

us the night possible of me quite a lot of the key things including of the police of the substance of this will actually be done by it is night passed and that happen not so good. the guy was by and admitted that a full hot box and the quite a number of people there was the king inside on 5, it could be tribute more than 20 people. and then the killings. uh, 10 pm. uh okay. when on the, on the 5 on the most the number. okay. certainly very wiring reports that we will no doubt have confirmation of, of, of the coming days. how soon, what does president william rudo and the government do now? is there a way for him, for them to please the people out on the streets, you know, 30 percent of whom are living in poverty? who absolutely say they cannot afford an increase in the cost of living. and the

international lenders of cost is going to take the sort of the communication that communicates. they use that waiting list has gone down some of the big issues and to, to come down to the ground day to me. they protest, i think be something that we can see that the presidency is trying to do the decimal grid and press conference. now, you know, speaking that are going to, to, that it'll be different from the time that i think the country had to use today. that, you know, raise some concerns with regard to the government's willingness to compromise. but number 2, as to a seriously perhaps a bit. so be sure the task was to look into the kind of on science of grievances, but as well as come up with the practice types of dealing with issues, i guess corruption and mismanagement over economy. you know, i'd say it's something that goes way back. it seems stuff. we've been kind of

discretion, you know, as well as the general attitude that to the doesn't. but additions have what signal citizens, especially they, they jane see generation which they did not. you know, for the patient don't seem to really understand very much, but fundamentally is going to be about a carl and t v. 's a possibility that they're going to be policies that number one up to in the interests of the country as well as the citizens. but also the directional about that providing for the economy to be able to provide help and you know, employment as well as doable communities for the young people. then you can go a long way, no matter rating the kinds of challenges they got, maybe specing, but also in starting the kind of they get to my student. government needs to be able to function because outside on the absence of suspicion that gets messy. it is very, very, had to be able to manage and control the country and we'll finish and west and i know that the government has lost a lot of legitimacy and how it's handled these protests. but can, does it have a fiscal repair pat plan? does it have the external support to manage this crisis kind of gets it together

and you'll view whether you use that exercise political with big country because you lost what we may do the most. do the suppose to raise money to expand the windows or painting fresh. yeah. because i see, you know, the money that government has bought its ended up in people's bookings. okay. now i think better corruption is waiting to run, going to the government based on a lot of west each the government asking us to leave within their limits. but the government officials are leaving much spending a lot of money for life getting some trouble. but at the same time, that's the good news to exercise. so security measures present to maps know that these are comfortable to the people in, you know, their counter will extend the minutes is when i come to try it today. and then what

about, and i think if you was to do this most institutions and tell them these people are not taking the find a way out. you're okay. you was talking about it tests was i don't think we need to address was these tests for 15 minutes to mileage from side to basically to so no, it's just a corruption of point. you mean what is floor you should see when you really be a i'm a factor. yeah. they're asking for these things to be pulled, the criminal justice system that is responsible to their needs and then go to the watch and give them the job and education system that was where they get to what it did. you go ahead and get assistance with them that that's the thing. that is certainly what the people out on the streets have been asking for. the warranty. got about one minute left in the program and i would like to hear from out seeing

or given everything that's, that's at stake. what people are asking for this. you know, president router is saying he's not going to sign this bill. are you hopeful for this moment? in kenya for the country and for the, for the people is less. so that's not signing to be is the beginning because one of the problems that i think i've seen the purpose of complaining about is the feeling that they're not being caught. the purpose of suggesting presenting most of the opinions this the default to go to a court. i think people have descended and then what items there was public, public participation process. well, but 90 percent of opinions, i'll try to get them to be the best. i said, if you pass this be we some lead can but the bottom and the president went ahead and passed the be the other parts of people being, but i couldn't find them enough to up to a smart us to get ceilings and piece i said, but being human community supposed to be on this issues. i'm on the side,

the compromising of all the institutions of government, such as punishment is being discuss, okay, it is like all the issues that need to be something because people are concerned that the government is no, no, no problem sending us government doesn't become a one month so i talked to the end of this is because i know to work we have run out of time, but thank you to all of our guests on this fast moving and developing story. as we were quoting, that is how some kind in jail in nairobi weston. she now her in johannesburg and austin and num, y a in nairobi. and to thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website on to 0, dot com. and for further discussion, do go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at a inside story for me, elizabeth put on and the whole team here,

bye for now. the what is the effect of the conflict on the environment? the impact of war is so much more than just emissions from tanks ships and will fight more than this. it has a devastating effect on people. and the the department of defense is emissions is as large as many countries every time. and if you spend an increasing military emissions increase and this war and this kind of christ all hail the planet on it does ita pod who came in to be is israel and obstacles piece? i think that the new thing you have on his government with these 5 digit, you say getting less of late, thought provoking, nonsense. the e, you made weapons being used in guns. no guns should be used in an offensive way. that's our facing realities. you're running. mean, what does he bring to the table,

hard from the presidential go to some we cannot take the fact that he was suddenly present as not that important factor here. the story on talk to how does era the hello there. i'm just as you pay in the hall with an update for you here on auto 0, hundreds of police officers and soldiers on the streets of kenya's capital. a day off to the president withdrew proposed legislation that would have raised taxes. these are some of the scenes in downtown i read the where police have been using t, a gas and rubber bullets to discuss pockets of anti government for testers. at least 23 people were killed on tuesday during demonstrations against that finance bill. organizers had called a nationwide protest.