and improve its economy image in kimball, which is 0. the 2nd phase of a controversial town to they pulled us gun refugees from pocket stone and this set to begin with 800000 f guns could be expelled. if they don't label integrity, they face arrest and deportation. well, the 3000000 african refugees are still living and focused on, almost half of them are on the documented. but we spoke to one ask on who's lived in the refugee camp and focused on for more than 40 years. he's worried about the plan and says there's nothing enough got us done for them. his his story. the the, the other one is my name is abdul cadell. at a i'm from afghanistan's non good heart problems even though i'm 50 years old but and i have 16 children been of the have that negative deal with them. i've been living in the cars on a refugee camp out of the shower for the past 45 years. i lost my leg during the soviet invasion of afghanistan when i was

a young fighter against them. were really worried about the expiry of our refugee cards. since there was no help for any reasonable and every outcome here. in fact, this gun has to face police detention harassment and abuse, and there's no end to it. we're also not allowed to do any job or business. and even our sim cards have been blocked. were complaining to the u. n. h c r, who is responsible for us, but asking them why they're not serious about our plight. looking for permanent solutions for us. the extension of a few months doesn't mean anything for us. even if we would turn toward tour and afghanistan, where will we go? what we'll do? nearly 4 generations have been born here on pakistani soil. what a good feel like strangers enough can assign and none of us are ready to return. we're not upset at the pakistani authorities who have allowed us to live freely for the last 4 decades. and we're grateful for them. the now the dirty politics between us gonna stand, pakistan has made our lives miserable. and now we are the things we requested all

the concerned. it's already that that to make our lives easier and look for a lasting solution that will allow us to have a place we can call our home in the future when our children to can have good schools and hospitals with a better life. however, can barrow has strengthened us. it approaches the southeastern caribbean. intelligent say it's the earliest an atlantic american has reached the category forests. trends is expected to make land full on monday. have a kind of warnings have been issued for parts of the car, been including vault betas, jamaica and saint lucia. as you can discover more on our website, i'll just see what the cost and use continues here on else here of to upfront state change. and thanks for the the outcast is delivered over $300000000.00,

will suffice in more than $75.00 countries around the world. 100 percent of set talks an emergency donation spence on projects. and we ensure beneficiaries come 1st of a 300 on luis, haven't had gone through the bumps the crossing in recent months. our most of these bless and the bless i'm we all turning your donations into direct delivery in the shortest possible time donates with confidence. israel, brutal war on guys, a continuance. and israel is facing a case of genocide at the international court of justice. but all we had a turning point for western support of israel and what future is there for guys it and for palestine more broad? earlier i went to new york to speak to one of the foremost scholars in israel, palestine in 60 professor norman finkelstein, thanks so much for joining me on a bright. thank you for having me. you've been an advocate for palestinian freedom for decades. you devoted much of your lives, certainly your scholarship to this. you've been called quote,

the foremost jewish anti semite one planet or something we will call you a holocaust deniers. why does your work generate these types of responses? um, i think it's a kind of power docks and tell you the truth because you will know my actual political opinions are very conventional and well within the main stream. for example, long after the whole of the left went over to this notion of one state. i was still advocating tuesday. whereas the whole left was trying to anchor their thinking and things like settler colonialism and this and that i was very firm. and just in repeating what international law said, i thought that was the best vocabulary to try to reach a broad audience. so the culture virtual part comes, i think, from there's

a certain element of i will say. so now the system to me, which is i read everything and i'm ready to side chapter and verse and everything. so i don't give my, so to speak, adversaries, any wiggle room is not a kind of debate. no, i go in for the kill. yes, you're lying. that's not true. that's false. and i am really luckless. i know that i'm relentless because i spend, i think it's a kind of ideological war. i'm and i'm, i'm relentless. i know that, but that's because i do the work. he lost faith in those ref, in those reference points and those frameworks, i mean, i know she's passed in swings in i held on to the due date idea. i believed in international law now no longer have faith and those are effective frameworks for getting a practical outcome. okay. those are 2 separate question. yeah. i'm on the question

of international law. obviously it moves very slowly or, you know, paying painfully slow the, when people are being killed and the genocide and so there's a certain degree of more than and patients those have degree of indignation. so for example, in the car right over here, i was reading the new international court of justice or response to south africa. and it goes on for about 12 pages. and they say we have the 1st concert, this one, we have the 1st concert that point. then we have the 1st service about another. all right, come on guys. let's just cut to the chase. people are getting killed. people are dying of starvation. but on the other hand, i have to say there's a kind of i don't know, i was kind of hutch by the fact that at the end of the day, i the lot of a huge price for the people garza, with

a lot seems to be kicking into place and for example, right now, as we speak, 31 percent of children under the age of 2 are facing acute now nutrition in the north and part of god. so they went to the evidence and they concluded, know, israel has got to give, let the food in, you know, it took 12 pages, it took 6 months, but the law is kicking in. so, but what would be let in? i mean, we saw after the january, yes, i know not much changed. i know. and then what do you do? you know, on the one hand, it's a very slow, tedious process. while the numbers are just a since the january 26 decision of the court of 5000 where people have been killed. so yeah, it's. so that's why the why,

why do you have any optimism in any of this matters, particularly because i think about in 2020 when you actually stopped writing on guys. and you said you felt like the work you were doing was sort of of things that point, listen, purposeless, and why is it less pointless? and purpose was now when we see legal decisions coming out, international rage. and it is real still remaining fairly often. and i guess the simple answers to phone number one. if you do nothing, you can be certain, nothing will happen. so that's not an option. and the 2nd thing is that you don't see changes. i mean, it's not what you would want obviously, but you to see change or the ice age. first of all, the fact that south africa went to back for palestine. extraordinary, you know, not one arab state. not one hour of state. it took south africa. you know,

the fact that the vote was 14 to 2. i said this is impossible. before the vote there are kept counting. i could only come up with 6 countries that was out for wow, if you i would have bad every single dollar, i own it. it was impossible that the u. s. and germany would vote yes. there are grounds to be optimistic, not the least for me, the most optimistic thing is the young people. if you have told me that people are with a king coming out to demonstrations week after week after week after week, i for 6 months, i would never have believed that the tenacity, the conviction, you know, it's,

it's really an extraordinary sight to behold. now somebody said i was a demonstration 3 weeks ago it was a washington square park. and then happen was pouring rain and it was a saturday. and there were about 50000 people there. and they were all around $25.00. i was an age cohort of one and then there was a gap memory. that was a gap, a for the years, i don't know. and then after it was over, a lot of people went down to the subject to go home. and so in the subway platform on this side of the, of the train tracks and then the other side of the change of everyone still check. think everyone still jeremy, if you know the scene from the civil rights movement, united states, how, when they were in jail, they kept singing and they kept shunting and they kept sinking and they kept

chanting. i don't know, it's like these young people except this one difference. the people in the civil rights movement were fighting for their own rights by these were young people fighting for god. so, you know, to 1000000 people in the some go where you are from the middle of least it's a deeply inspiring. so there's every reason on those grounds, both to be proud of, you know, the capacity of human sympathy and solidarity. but also on the grounds of being helpful, one of the things you talked about was how arguments that were on the margins have shifted at least to the mainstream, to be debated them to be to correct their engage level and then no longer can be shut down with your encounters, somebody right those days are over. you made an argument recently that turn some heads to be sure you said that how mazda is october 7th. the tech was

comparable in some ways to net turner slave revolt, a rebellion of his way. black americans in virginia that took place in 1831. you've also refer to guys a frequently as a concentration camp. uh, those types of historical comparisons probably aren't in the mainstream meet yet. in fact, they offend some people, they outrage some people. why do you make them? well, the primary reason i like them is because i think they're true. no. uh, not the time of rebellion was replete with the most horrifying atrocities to the order. enough turner, for those of you who don't know, cuz i don't know where your audiences of the united states had not the last, but it had slaved rebellions before the civil war. and the best known one and the most famous one was not turn to rebellion. they killed about 60 people, and then i turned the rebellion the order given by now turner, according to the historians, the order was very straightforward. kill whites,

that was the order, kill all whites, and they proceed to do just that. so when i read that, when i read that a light went on on my head and i said, okay, now i have something roughly now analogous to october 7th. so now my next challenge is, okay, so how do you render a judgment on the now turn the rebellion? so i figured i would go to the people who were so the speak closest to me in my political trajectory, which would be the abolitionists. those who were fighting for the end of slavery, however, they were very strictly against the use of violence. and so i was chris. okay, how did they judge assess and turn a rebellion?

and so i turned to william lloyd garrison, who was one of the most famous of the abolitionists. he edited the newspaper called the liberator, and it's very worth reading it. what he said, he began by saying, we told you so because he was speaking to white people. we told you so we told you, if you keep treating people this way, if you treat them this way, is going to be a reaction. and he went on to say that, of course atrocities, or i think he quoted, hers occurred during that during the rebellion. have you read the statement from start to finish? he never condemned, not turner. he does not know. it was for me

a personal moment because i spent the last 15 or more years of my life chronicling the horrors in gossip. the fact that those folks who burst the gates of garza on october 7th had been born into a concentration cap. not only were they born into it, but they were living in it and they were destined to die unit. and that was not turner. but is this a? is this an explanation from a dispassionate scholar? who's simply saying, look how inevitable this violence on october 7th was? or is it an endorsement of the action by saying, look, they had no choice. this is literally only legitimate and morally so to actually look when you make, when you pass narrow judgments, in my opinion,

you have to offer options. what else could they have done? so how most was elected in 2000. so we just started with international courts, right? so you have a growing optimism. yeah. does this have only happened because of the armed resistance? in other words, when we have the world's attention, when i really i would, i'm way to say what the facts tell me. now, i'm not saying i'm the only person that possession of the facts. yeah, but the pac faxes, they tell me in 2006 when how mazda is elected was elected on the reform platform. because the palestinian authority, so corrupt people wanted the change in the, immediately as they were elected the international opinion. the 1st israel, the us then the, you impose this rule economic blockade on cost. now, if you study the record, how much was attempting a diplomatic solution to the conflict?

it talks about recognizing israel to states having a long term ceasefire. it made many options. all of it was rebuffed, all of it was rejected. then, in march 2018, they attempted the great march of return, a non violent civil resistance. what happened when we know exactly what happened, you an investigative body produced the report was 250 single space pages. according to the report is we are targeted deliberately targeted children is real deliberately targeted, medics, israel the term deliberately targeted on journalists. here's the best one. the rule is real deliberately targeted, disabled people. okay? and they have the descriptions in the report. a person in the distance on crutches

. 300 meters from the perimeter fence shot the head. a person in the wheel chair, 300 meters shot down. so of course the non violence is going to fail. if people are just being shot down like, you know, swipe down like flies and there's no international reaction to can't work. a whole premise of non violence or resistance is that if you're willing to incur the suffering, then the international community, or in the case of our own country during the civil rights movement, the north and the federal government will be moved by the violence move and sympathy to act when you show the violence number of the whole point of non violence is martin luther king understood it. if you read, for example, the letter from the birmingham jail, he says that violence is in bedded in the system. and all we're doing is we're

bringing it to the says, the surface and dramatizing and like a spectacle on it. exactly. in order to leave bulk sympathy. what does it work is everyone's, what is the reason why that's why i'm going to show you. and so that's the point. it didn't work in guys. it didn't work. so now you were after the heart of the dilemma. if diplomacy didn't work, they try. i'm not saying what they were saying was perfect. i'm not saying it wouldn't have required no intense negotiations to make it work, but there were steps taken by homeless that didn't work non violent, silver resistance didn't work. and by the time you got to october 6, it was clear that a deal was going to be made with sap befell these. and then the whole conflict between israel and the arab world would have been resolved above the heads of the

people of god. so, and the only thing those 2000000 people would have to look forward to is to languish and die in the concentration camp. what do you think, given all the destruction, all the them of people and the physical environment? what do you think? nothing. yeah. who's ultimate in game is here. the goal is at one end of the spectrum and the spectrum bleeds into each hope point, leads into each other. at one end is the ethnic cleansing, the just get rid of them do what they did, 1948 and put an end to this guy. so problem is that a realistic vision? i understand the idea of saying we're going to have civil and governmental control over guys that we're going to maybe reinstall settlements as the pre night 2006 time delta. right. but it seems equally doubtful that they could populate, well i okay. let's remember

a time move quickly. the 1st 2 weeks it looked like where they believed that they were going to be able to expel the population to the sinai. that point egypt made a firm decision. they're not coming in. so long ago was the ethnic cleansing, but i agree with you after 2 weeks it seemed best possible. no, it still might happen. we don't know, you know, the pressures that will be exerted on c, c. and the number to the sort of middle position was the one that was advocated by you or island, the former head of the notion, security council. he said we'll give them 2 choices, stay in star, or leave. in other words, make us uninhabitable. and then the other, the extreme position was to just carry out, you know, destruction of am aleck, to just wipe out the population and the kind of our new ones to genocide. yeah. so

i think those are the 3 positions and what, what will come to that? we think most likely to come um, what's most like, i think i because president bards and that's having trouble with the demo, a large part of the democratic base. i think the gala pro show that only 19 percent of democrats supported israel is doing. yeah, i think the pressures exerted by by then will become unbearable for israel and united states. what does it, what doesn't barely able to be another profile encourage like we saw the security council where they just sustain, know the united states wanted to stop it from day one that could have stopped. you just pick up the phone and say, no more fee though. no more weapons. it's over and it's over. there is no question about is that possible? and as a practical matter, given this special relationship right?

business has and since it's more it's, it's, it's possible the question is, the political will and right now pros and biting is balancing the would they considered to be their security interest because, you know, what happened october? somebody was a blow for the united states. security also because the united states has invested a lot in israel as a regional power. unable to be original orbital. let me push on that for a 2nd cuz i spoke the other day to a professor mission, i'm or me, who said that it's a myth that there's still a strategic and tactical interest with united states in support as well. that that may once been the case, but it's not anymore our luck. john mearsheimer is a good friend of mine. i like him. but we don't agree. i mean, they were a little bit more or i can agree to disagree. i don't agree. and that point, i think important thing to understand about israel is israel is very much like

a western society. it has the same kind of a bureaucracy russian, our, the modern out look, uh, that makes it very easy for the us to communicate with israel in communication. it's not a trivial part. the secure, the people, the intelligence people, they all have the same mental outlook. and so that's an irreplaceable factor for the us to have a, what sometimes called a stationary aircraft carrier in the middle east, where the whole mental outlook is held in common all. so it's still by far the most militarily

confident. i, i'm not saying it's great, it's a good reputation. we've got a very big reputation only. i only think that was an accident re, the rock has set in and it's really society. it's become less the nice. that means there's an element of slovenliness to the way they carry. they conduct themselves. you said you watch um in the debate i had. yes, you were epic. almost 5. our debate with uh, worrying about any and any morris and something else. yeah. yeah, yeah. i know, striking at the very end of the debate, i said that is real now faces are strategic dilemma serious strategic the dilemma is a large number of people in the arab world. after october 7,

suddenly came to the realization or the tiffany, israel's not as strong as we thought it was or israel's not as invincible as we've the one that was. yeah. and then the morris at that point professor maurice very smart guy. he kind of had a nervous laugh. he said, oh, that's ridiculous. we have atomic bombs. we have nuclear weapons. what was striking to me about that? and so was he did say we have the id if we have the army, he had lost faith and it was so now he had to talk about the terrance of their nuclear weapons. so i don't believe that october 7th was passing an error mistake, a moment of incompetence. it was a reflection of the fact that is real no longer is

what it once was. now of course they're gonna fix their muscles though they prove that they actually do have comparable. that's what they're doing. now going perhaps has beloved. obviously we also had the who these in, in, in the red sea with their, i see blockade. and we also have a mass issue, and there's, there's a, there's a thought here that to show that there really are, i think that's a very big problem there. i think the problem is that israel has one of its central military concepts is why, because it's the turns capability. and the turns capabilities just the fancy term for the arab world, fear of us. and they are very worried now that the arab world because of what happened october 7th, no longer fears in. and so one of the reasons for what's been happening is in their language to restore their the turns capacity. and that does seem

to include against as well. so i think we're very far, very far from the end of what began october 7th. and they could take forms which will be a regional and may be a global catastrophe for some freight listening. thanks so much for joining me on upfront. you're welcome talk to the a las vegas employees thousands, a huge proportion of them. latino whose work is in the service industry had taught by carpet the economy, furious about illegal immigration. trump meets the votes and is pushing called for the. the republican party matches and aligns with our culture and our values,

our core. it's the core of us. if we went nevada, we went the whole thing. donald trump isn't a strong position haven default or right now he has a 5 point lee, the head of joe fight. a lot can happen between now and november, but the political winds of change may be heading to nevada. at least if donald trump gets his way unique perspective, a lot of people didn't even know that there are indigenous people in norway, sweden, finland, and rough shot re connecting to our song sort dances. really help generation trauma connect with our community and tap into conversations you will find elsewhere the stream on our to 0 a week to look at the world's top place. and the story of what kind of response can we expect from china if tech talk is in the back, the markets in economies and small businesses, how prime cube is why the economic problems be addressed? certainly be fixed to understand how it affects d. 9 south asia is growing,

but employment levels are actually fully. why is that? counting the cost on g 0 the a strong subbing for fonts as far, right? national riley in the 1st round of parliamentary elections, exit polls show president macros, alliances and the place the following down. jordan, this is on the 09 from dell, also coming up intense bottles between his rating soldiers, an honest indian fighters in northern gauze as it should g, a neighborhood, a series of coordinated suicide attacks in northern nigeria kills at least 19 people a wedding fuel.