the following through old ruby debby, a greek stricken, and in short, ruby was among the more than a 120 people killed in a stampede. such a religious event production tuesday please say most of the victims with children. many with crushed to death, all fell into a roadside drain in the rush to leave off to assume and by a popular preacher. and as a duff storm swept across the area, police estimate around $250000.00 people were at the event. that's 870000 mold, and the number initial police report said i'd be granted permission to attend. there are a conflicting reports as to what, who, who is to blame is a big deal is said the little we have gab. everybody's at fault the really just good with the 1st one to be planned by that. and what can you say about the work of

administration? it's going to be an issue of the anything about it witnesses described to we succeed in the optimal, suggesting the windows in of health and safety measures in place. subsidies as hostile layer can take some a breathing somewhere and not the terrible condition just gets reported. what's on some of this, prove breedlove and we made them drink and wraps them out and no one they would know. ambulance is here. and with that one came late, we stopped, the car, went and supported the patients to the hospital. stays with ortiz, have launched an investigation by the office of the previous call left about the device easier for us to talk to. you see, the crowd didn't stop pushing and that's what caused this campaign. people were trampled and suffocated due to the whole crowd ministry. heavy military was at the event with a sister in grand daughter. grand daughter is missing. what's the last name? i think i gave them everyone was pushing and shoving and it was totally kills. they

told me a good was in the hospital and you tell me, wednesday, but it wasn't. my grand daughter is still looking for how many families of the victims say government negligence is partially to blame. police of investigating some of the event organizes on several challenges, including culpable homicide charles traffic, which is 0. and you can validate stories on our website to dollars that don't couple of the throwing them will have more news and these are interesting to off and i was typing next on. i'll just ever, it's upfront, i see a time company the to us we can stories from african perspectives, 3 short documentary by african filmmakers from sound the only democratic republic of congo and kate bird islands. life is actually music of the way people talk the

way we walk is just everything distressing timing. go tell them on the mountain. friend of the and mechanics see a new series of africa direct on. i'll just 0. it is their own little world guys that continues. and israel is facing a case of genocide at the international court of justice. but all we had a turning point for western support of israel and what future is there for guys it and for palestine more broad? earlier i went to new york to speak to one of the formal scholars in israel, palestine in 60 the norman singles thing. thanks so much for joining me on a bright. thank you for having me. you've been an advocate for palestinian freedom for decades. you devoted much of your lives, certainly your scholarship to this. you've been called quote, the foremost jewish anti semite one planet or somebody will call you a holocaust deniers. me. why does your work generate these types of responses?

i think it's a kind of power the ox tell you the truth because you will know my actual political opinions are very conventional and well within the main stream. for example, long after the whole of the left went over to this notion of one state. i was still advocating to states. whereas the whole left was trying to anchor their thinking and things like settler colonialism and this and that i was very firm and just repeating what international lawyers said. i thought that was the best vocabulary to try to reach a broad audience. so the controversial part comes, i think from there's a certain element of i will say fanaticism to me, which is i read everything and i'm ready to cite chapter and verse and everything.

so i don't give my, i so the speak adversaries. any wiggle room is not a kind of debate. no, i go in for the kill. yes, you're lying. that's not true. that's false. us. and i am really luckless. i know that i'm relentless because i spend, i think it's a kind of ideological war. i'm and i'm, i'm relentless. i know that, but that's because i do the work. he lost faith in those left and those reference points in those frameworks. i mean, i know she's past and swings in i held on to the, the, the, the tuesday idea. i believed in international law now no longer have faith and those are effective frameworks for getting a practical outcome. okay. those are 2 separate question. yeah. i'm on the question of international law. obviously it moves very slowly you know, paying painfully slow. the when people are being killed and the genocide and so

there's a certain degree of more than and patients those have degree of indignation. so for example, in the car right over here, i was reading the new international court of justice or response to south africa. and it goes on for about 12 pages and they say we have the 1st concert or this one . we have the 1st concert that point and then we have the 1st service about another . all right, come on guys. let's just cut to the chase. people are getting killed, people are dying of starvation. but on the other hand, i have to say there's a kind of i don't know, i was kind of hutch by the fact that at the end of the day, the lot as a huge price for the people garza. but the lot seems to be kicking into place. and for example, right now, as we speak, 31 percent of children under the age of 2 are facing acute mountain

nutrition in the north and part of garza until the evidence. and they concluded, no, it still has got to give, let the food in, you know, it took 12 pages, it took 6 months, but the lawyers and kicking in so wonderful to be let in. i mean, we saw after the january. yes, i know, not much changed. i know. and then what do you do? you know, on the one hand, it's a very slow, tedious process. a while the numbers are just a since the january 26 decision of the court of 5000 where people have been killed. so yeah, it's. so that's why the why, why do you have any optimism then any of this matters are particularly because i think about in 2020 when you actually stopped writing on guys. and you said you felt like the work you were doing was sort of of things that point, listen,

purposeless. why is it less pointless and purposeless? now when we see legal decisions coming out international rage, and it is real still remaining fairly often. and i guess the simple answer is to phone number one. if you do nothing, you can be certain, nothing will happen. so that's not an option. and the 2nd thing is that you don't see changes. i mean, it's not what you would want, obviously, but you to see change or the ice age. first of all, the fact that south africa went to bat for palestine. extraordinary, you know, not one arab state. not one arab state. it took south africa. you know, the fact that the vote was 14 to,

to i said this is impossible. before the vote there are kept counting, i could only come up with 6 countries that was on the floor. well, if you, i would have bad every single dollar i own it was impossible that the u. s. and germany would vote yes. there are grounds to be optimistic, not the least for me, the most optimistic thing is the young people. if you have told me that people are when a king coming out of demonstrations week after week after week after week, i for 6 months, i would never have believed it. the tenacity, the conviction, you know it's, it's really an extraordinary sight to behold. now somebody said i was a demonstration 3 weeks ago it was a washington square park. and then happen was pouring rain

and it was a saturday. and there were about 50000 people there. and they were all around $25.00. i was an age cohort of one, and then there was a gap memory that was a gap a 40 years ago. and then after was over, a lot of people went down to the subway to go home. and so in the subway plug form on this side of the, of the train tracks and then the other side of the change of everyone's still chatting. everyone still jeremy, if you know the scene from the civil rights movement united states, when they were in jail, they kept singing, and they kept shutting and they kept sinking and they kept chanting. and it was like these young people, except there's one difference. the people in the civil rights movement were funding for their own rights. these were young people finding forgotten. so you know,

to 1000000 people know some go where you are from the middle of least it is easily inspiring. so there's every reason on those grounds, both to be proud of you know, the capacity of human sympathy and solidarity, but also on the grounds of being helpful. one of the things you talked about was how arguments that were on the margins have shifted at least to the mainstream, to be debated them to be, to correct their engage level and then no longer can be shut down with your encounters. somebody right, those days are over. you made an argument recently that turn some heads to be sure you said that how mazda is october 7th. the tag was comparable in some ways to nat turner slave revolt. rebellion of his way, black americans in virginia that took place at 1831. we've also refer to guys

a frequently as a concentration camp. uh, those types of historical comparisons probably aren't in the mainstream me yet. in fact, they offend some people, they outrage some people. why do you make them? well, the primary reason i like them is because i think they're true. no. uh, not the time of rebellion was replete with the most horrifying atrocities to have the order in that turn there. for those of you who don't know, cuz i don't know where your audiences of the united states had not the last, but it had slight rebellions before the civil war. and the best known one and the most famous one was not turn to rebellion. they killed about 60 people, and then i turned the rebellion the order given by now turner, according to the historians, the order was very straightforward. kill or whites, that was the order kilobytes. and they proceeded to do just that. so when i read

the, when i read that a light went on on my head and i said, okay, now i have something roughly and i'll, uh, analogous to october 7th. so now my next challenge is, okay. so how do you render a judgment? and then that turn the rebellion. so i figured i would go to the people who were so the speak closest to me in my political trajectory, which would be the abolitionists, those who were fighting for the end of slavery. however, they were very strictly against the use of violence. and so i was chris. okay, how did they judge assess and turn the rebellion? and so i turned to william lloyd garrison, who was one of the most famous of the abolitionists. he edited the newspaper called

the liberator, and it's very worth reading it. what he said. it'd be done by saying we told you so because you're speaking to white people, we told you so we told you, if you keep treating people this way, if you treat them this way, is going to be a reaction. and he went on to say that of course atrocities. so i think he quoted horrors occurred during that during the rebellion . have you read the statement from start to finish? he never condemned, not turner. he does not know. it was for me a personal moment because i spent the last 15 or more years of my life chronicle in the hot showers in gossip. the fact that those folks who

burst the gates of garza on october 7th had been born into a concentration camp. not only were they born into it, but they were living in it, they were destined to die unit. and that was not turner. but is this, is this an explanation from a dispassionate scholar who is simply saying, look how inevitable this violence on october 7th was? or is it an endorsement of the action by saying, look, they had no choice. this is literally only legitimate and marley says we're actually making a look when you make, when you pass more with judgments, in my opinion, you have to offer options. what else could they have done? so how much was elected in 2000? so we just started with international courts, right. so you have

a growing optimism. yeah, that's the only haven't because of the arm resistance. in other words, when we have the world's attention, when i really i would, i'm way to say what the facts tell me. no, i'm not saying i'm the only person that possession of the facts. yeah, but the pac faxes, they tell me in 2006 when how mazda is elected was elected on the reform platform. because the palestinian authority, so corrupt people wanted to change you. so immediately as they were elected the international opinion, the 1st israel, then the us then the, you impose this rule economic blockade on cost. now, if you study the record, how much was attempting a diplomatic solution to the conflict? it talked about recognizing israel to states having a long term ceasefire. it made many options. all of it was rebuffed,

all of it was rejected. then, in march 2018, they attempted the great march of return, a non violent civil resistance. what happened? well, we know exactly what happened. you an investigative body produced, the report was 250 single space pages according as the report is we o targeted, deliberately targeted children is real deliberately targeted medics, israel the turn deliberately targeted on journalists. here's the best one, the rule is real, deliberately targeted, disabled people. okay. and they have the descriptions in the report. a person in the distance on crutches, 300 meters from the perimeter fence shot the head. a person in the wheel chair,

300 meters shot down. so of course the non violence is going to fail. if people are just being shut down like, you know, swipe down like flies and there's no international reaction to can't work. a whole premise of non violence or resistance is that if you're willing to incur the suffering, then the international community, or in the case of our own country during the civil rights movement, the north and the federal government will be moved by the violence move in sympathy to act when you show the violence member of the whole point of non violence is martin luther king understood it. if you read, for example, the letter from the birmingham jail, he says that violence is in bedded in the system. and all we're doing is we're bringing it to the system, the surface and dramatize the spectacle on it. exactly. in order to leave bulk

sympathy. what does it work? is everyone's, but there was always, that's where i'm going to show you. and so that's the point. it didn't work in guys, it didn't work. so now you went to the heart of the dilemma. if diplomacy didn't work, they try. i'm not saying what they were saying was perfect. i'm not saying it wouldn't have required no intense uh, negotiations to make it work. but there were steps taken by homeless that didn't work non violent, silver resistance didn't work. and by the time you got to october 6, it was clear that a deal was going to be made with sap befell these. and then the whole conflict between israel and the arab world would have been resolved above the heads of the people of god. so, and the only thing those 2000000 people would have to look forward to is to

languish and die in the concentration camp. what do you think, given all the destruction, all the them of people and the physical environment? what do you think? nothing. yeah. whose ultimate in game is here. the goal is at one end of the spectrum and the spectrum bleeds into each hope point, leads into each other one and is the ethnic cleansing the just get rid of them do what they did. 1948 and put an end to this guy. so the problem is that a realistic is, i mean, i understand the idea of saying we're going to have civil and governmental control over guys that we're going to maybe reinstall settlements as the pre night 2006 time delta. right? but it seems equally doubtful that they could the populate. well, i okay. let's remember the time move quickly. the 1st 2 weeks it looked like or they believed that they were going

to be able to expel the population to the sinai. at that point, a jump need a firm decision. they're not coming in. so long ago was the ethnic cleansing, but i agree with you after 2 weeks it seemed best possible. no, it still might happen. we don't know, you know, the pressures that will be exerted on c, c. and the number to the sort of middle position was the one that was advocated by your island. the former head of the ocean security council. he said, we'll give them 2 choices, stay in, star, or leave. in other words, make us uninhabitable. and then the other, the extreme position was to just carry out, you know, destruction of am aleck, to just wipe out the population and the kind of our new ones to genocide. yeah. so i think those are the 3 positions and what, what will come to that? we think most likely to come um, what's most like,

i think i because president barton that's having trouble with a demo, a large part of the democratic base. i think the gala pro show that only 19 percent of democrats supported what israel is doing. yeah, i think the pressures exerted by, by then will become unbearable for israel and in the united states, what does it, what doesn't bear with it? would it be another profile encourage like we saw the security council where they just sustained know the united states wanted to stop it from day one that could have stopped? you just pick up the phone and say no more fee though. no more weapons. and it's over, and it's over there is no question about, is that possible? and as a practical matter, given this special relationship road is, has had since and 6 more it's, it's, it's possible the question is the political will. and right now the pros and biting

is balancing the would they consider it to be their security interest? because, you know, what happened october? somebody was a blow for the united states security also, because the united states has invested a lot in israel as a regional power. unable to be original arbitrarily. let me push on that for a 2nd cuz i spoke the other day to a professor mission, i'm or me, who said that it's a mist that there's still a strategic and tactical interest with united states and support as well that they may have once been the case, but it's not anymore. all right, look, john mearsheimer is a good friend of mine. i like him. but we don't agree. i mean people are, you know, people are, are in agree to disagree. i don't agree. and that point, i think important thing to understand about israel is israel is very much like a western society. it has the same kind of a bureaucracy russian, our,

the modern out look, uh, that makes it very easy for the us to communicate with israel and communication is not a trivial part. the secure, the people, the intelligence people, they all have the same mental outlook. and so that's an irreplaceable factor for the us to have a what sometimes called a stationary aircraft carrier in the middle east where the whole mental outlook is held in common all. so it's still by far the most militarily confident. i, i'm, i'm not saying it's great. it's a good reputation. we got a very big reputation way and i don't think that was an accident re the right has

set in and is really society. it's become less than nice. that means there's an element of slovenliness to the way they carry. they conduct themselves. you said you watch on in the debate i had. yes. you were epic. almost 5 hour debate with uh were you able to buy any and many morris and something else? yeah. yeah. yeah, i know, striking at the very end of the debate, i said that is real now faces are strategic. the most serious strategic the dilemma is a large number of people in the arab world. after october 7, suddenly came to the realization or the tiffany, me, israel's not as strong as we thought it was, or israel's not as invincible as we thought it was. and then the morris at that

point, professor morris, very smart guy. we kind of had a nervous laugh and he said, oh, that's ridiculous. we have atomic bomb. we have nuclear weapons. what was striking to me about that? and so was he didn't say we have the id if we have the army, he had lost faith and it was so now he had to talk about the deterrence of their nuclear weapons. so i don't believe that october 7th was passing an error mistake, a moment of incompetence. it was a reflection of the fact that it's real no longer is what it once was. now of course they're gonna fix their muscles though they prove that they actually do have comparable. that's what they're doing. now. going

perhaps has beloved. obviously we also had the who these in, in, in the red sea with their, i see blockade. we also have a mass issue, and there's a, there's a, there's a thought here that to show that there really are, i think that's a very big problem there. i think the problem is that israel has one of its central military concepts. it's why because it's the turns capability and the turns capabilities just the fancy term for the arab world, fear of us. and they are very worried now that the arab world because of what happened october 7th, no longer fears in. and so one of the reasons for what's been happening is in their language to restore their the turns capacity. and that does seem to include against as well. so i think we're very

far, very far from the end of what began october 7th. and it could take forms, which will be a regional and may be a global catastrophe if it's a free listing. thanks so much for joining me on upfront. you're welcome. talk to the a unique perspective. one picture is not going to tell the entire 8 months of the genocide. however, it is bringing attention to advise that this has nothing rough and looks like we're off. it looks like so on heard voices. we've been seeing the exacerbation of the militarization of the police over the past 100 years. connect with our community and tap into conversations you will find elsewhere, both in a region government and other companies are stealing indigenous land. the stream on out to 0. ok,

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the hello i'm and there's a problem and this is a news. our life from dog hawk coming off in the next 60 minutes. hurricane bell has jamaica and it's on it's off to ken and at least 6 people and causing significant damage of the se, caribbean as well, looks set to approve the largest seizure of land and the occupied westbank in more than 3 decades. u. k. government minister can see the golden conservative party is heading for the face on the eve of thursday's trans election at china's electric comic has res fatality. as page.