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the hi. i'm steve clements and i have a question. many us officials have said enough is enough and resigned in protest of us policy on israel, but it's the bite and administration listening. let's get to the bottom line. the they all have important jobs in the us government, separate from the state department, one of the education department, even one from the intelligence community, but some of left quietly in protest of us government's policy towards israel's war and gaza. others have chosen to stay in their jobs, but they make their descent clear internally. but at least 9 officials have publicly resign saying they simply could no longer work with the bite and administration. today we're speaking with one of those government officials. ha, probably former us diplomat and state department spokesman for the middle east in

north africa, who resigned in april after 18 years in the foreign service. thank you so much for joining us today. let me just ask you to tell us why did you resign? yeah, absolutely. first of all, thank you so much for having me. see if i'm a, i really appreciate it. i resign because 18 years ago when i joined the ford service i sworn owes to defend the constitution. and this policy honestly is in violation of that. it's a violation of us law and i can go into detail in terms of how our search as an unconditional military assistance is violating not one, not 2, but multiple us regulations as an american diploma. i could not be part of that. it's also a field militaristic policy that hasn't achieved any of its objectives. and i was documenting that on a daily basis, back to the department, the implications of this policy. how it was indeed, not keeping israel any safer, how it was the stabilizing to the middle east. and obviously it was absolutely a devastation to the palace and, and themselves. and finally,

it was undermining us. credibility throughout the region. and again, this is something that it was reporting back to washington and my job is in american diplomat was to advance to west interest, promote the united states. and this policy made it impossible to do so. the fact that it was an immoral policy and humane policy as well added on. and it came to a point where i realized i could no longer be part of the administration. she'll walk you through that process a little bit. sort of a nuts and bolts him and you're a foreign service officer. you've been doing this job for 18 years. i'm. i'm sure there are moments in the past. me said, you know, united states is good, but you felt this deeply and you were engaged internally and writing members kind of describe that process 1st because i don't think our viewers understand what it means and how it feels to descent. when your bosses are doing something that you don't like, absolutely, and you make a very good point, steve, and it's not about personal opinion. and because obviously there have been plenty of times over the last 18 years. especially working in difficult places throughout

the world where the promises don't always have the same opinions as the official us government policy. but as diplomats generally, we are always able to provide a professional expertise. we're always able to be heard. and that has been from my experience over the last 18 years, the spirit of the state department. and i always felt like it was a rewarding career. i was helping my country and i was doing my part. so i'm a political officer by training. i started out my career in yemen as a political officer and a human rights officer. i served in multiple countries all around the region and other places all around the world as long as putting hong kong on south africa. my last assignment was the 1st public facing job i actually had, i was a spokes person, as you mentioned, for the airbag world. so my job was to be with a face of the state literally. and i always have the binding ministration. you're having to go out and talk of the middle east, north africa region and say, hey, here's what we're up to and why we're defending it. that's exactly right. and i was

present very proud to do that. i was very proud to do that. it was honor for me to represent my country and before october, 7th, i had done well over a 100 interviews on a range of topics to dance, russia, ukraine, china, whatever the are the, the airball audience wanted to hear us government perspective on. and i felt that that was advancing us. interesting was helping tell america story. but after october 7th, the talking points that i was receiving were the 1st of all the humanizing to the palestinians. they were neglecting the plight of the palestinians. they were of course, very heavily focused on israel has a right to defend itself from my perspective, especially early on. it wasn't even that it wasn't neglecting the post and implied altogether. so i, along with all of my colleagues in the region, watched in horror on october 7th, when we saw the terrorist attacks occur. right. and then as for language, folks, people, we or we wait for washington to get to have ahead of the story and then we come out

usually after the situation comes down, the situation. never calm down, obviously with this, with this particular conflict. so when we started receiving our talking points, they were really just focused so much on of course the risk of terrorist attacks of october 7th. but the civilian death toned garza was rising so drastically so quickly. and that was just being ignored. and that if you remember early on the president, even this counted the number of civilian casualties in gaza and he was questioning them, which again was i think humanizing tactic. that is really is we're using, which is not something that was in our favor. we should not have been following suit. so in good conscious, i knew the reaction to those talking points in air media. i knew that the reaction would be disastrous. and then what i actually began doing is i began documenting that. and i began reporting that back to washington explaining, look or talking points. this policy is not being accepted by this part of the world . it's actually being rejected. and it's causing a facing growing anti americanism. i in good conscious,

cannot be promoting these talking points. when i know it's actually hurting my country as opposed to helping to your filing these reports were they being read, were you getting a response? they were me internal, internal officials, inside the state farm. they were being red, uh and they, i was getting responses and they were going to very senior level. so in addition to sort to reflecting on our own messaging, they were also showing to washington what areas were consuming throughout the reach it because was doing a round up of air of traditional media and social media. and some of that including included the graphic images of, of the children being killed and u. s. bond fragments that were shown right next to these children. and i was explaining the level of us complicity and how the air public was consuming this on a daily basis. and blaming us not as well the blaming us for the debts and the carnage and garza, and that we needed to change course because again, this was hurting us national security interests. what were the responses

the responses were some of them were humane understanding that it was a tragic situation. some people were effected and impacted by the images. i also simultaneously faced silence thing and i faced sidelining. some people did not want those reports to continue to be sent. i was eventually told in january that the reports were no longer needed, even though obviously the conflict has not ended. but the message was clear by january, the policy was the policy. and as i was told, quote, the devastation and garza was understood for you're in 18. 18. your veteran of this is a paper ministration. well, not of this administration. many of many ministry serving as a foreign service officer and you are being sidelined in squelched and told to, you know, basically stay in your place and no more. i was also being pressure to go on air and deliver the talking points in gaza on garza and the point that this messaging strategy, which by the way, there was really no messaging strategy. it was just go out and deliver these

talking points without really thinking about the ramifications of the i was pressure to go out and do interviews and i and i refused again. not because i personally disagree with the policy, but because i knew that messaging was hurting us interest. it was making people across the air world, one a burned american flags that was making people reject the united states. and i had worked for 18 years to do the opposite. i had worked for 18 years to strengthen the us ties with that part of the world and other countries. and in good conscience, i could not be the face of this war. so me ask you a blank question. i don't know how to frame it. sure. problems the correct way, but you're an arab american. mm hm. you're a moroccan american and american happen to have heritage and legacy from morocco. were they trying to use you to sugar coat a policy that you believe was that point a that's a, that's a very interesting question. look, i don't want to speak about the state department as a monolith, right,

because there are many different officers. there are many different senior officials, so i want to be careful there in terms of how i label the institution. so i can tell you my experience with some, okay. i was definitely told someone like you would be great to have out there right down someone that looks like you it would be a very effective think so obviously that was a quite the meaning and not the points of how we should be thinking as a state department as well, i can tell you, i did not become a diplomat to sell the war. i definitely did not become a diplomat to serve a plausible to, to sell a plausible genocide. i became a diplomat to promote peace, to promote american interests. so there was the drumbeat, there was the drum beat of you must promote this policy. no matter what the ramifications are. and the entire time i was saying,

can we please see what is actually happening on the ground? can we see that our 3 service members and jordan just got killed? can we see that there are protests throughout the error of world and their social unrest to unprecedented levels and in modern, in modern times, we need to reassess the implications of this policy on our own us national security . we can stand by an ally. yes. but we cannot do so at the expense of our own us national security. so what explains the course in your mind that president biden has taken a steve, this is a question i asked myself every day and tried to figure it out because honestly i did not want to resign. i was very proud of being an american diplomat and i kept on holding on, hoping that we collectively, as diplomats and as the us government interagency were, would be able to effect change. and this is what i came up with, right? this is just through my own build the relation. so i came up with really 33 points . the 1st i think is ideology. president biden is, is a self, you know,

self proclaimed design. is he truly believes in the iron clad commitment of the united states to israel. but again, my point is even with that, you have to realize that you can support the state of israel in an actually substantive way, not this way because it will not lead to an actual security of the state of israel . so then that takes me to the 2nd point. you can maintain that ideology, but not to do this right? so my 2nd point and one that was quite eyeopening for me is the diplomat. is that a lot of our foreign policy is run by our domestic politics. right. and that is undeniable. as a diplomat, i was never allowed to receive any type of funding, even a cup of coffee. we really had to practically report it right. we had to be very transparent in anything, but our politicians, the ones that are making the decision to send these unconditional arms. they receive campaign contributions from the arms industry, from the pro israel lobby. those drive decisions,

not foreign policy expert. and critically not wasn't good for us national security, but what's good for campaign contributions that may get me in trouble saying that out loud in this town, but it's the sad truth. and thirdly, i think there is an embedded the human ization of palestinians. and i saw that 2 are talking points, i saw that serving in the state department. this almost expectation that it's okay if those people, if they are get killed. we saw many u. s. government officials express outrage on october 7th as they absolutely should have my heart was also breaking as they absolutely should have, but it is wild to me and it is devastating to me to see those same officials, barely blinking i when we're talking about 15000 children killed, you want to argue how many, how much fighters are in the overall number. let's just talk about the children. where are the tiers? where is the horror?

where is the action to stop these children from getting killed? and i think it's just an embedded the human ization and obviously racism to be quite frank where it's ok if these people starve to death. and when i realized those 3 things for myself, that is also when i decided to resign because i couldn't single handily change those 3 things from within the system. how were some of your colleagues feeling who have not resigned? how many are not resigning, but hair? whitfield similarly. okay, steve, i've been asked this question a lot since i've resign and i'll tell you 2 things. one, there are a lot of people who are very, very upset about this policy. but i also want to say that there are a lot of people that are willfully enabling this policy, right? right. and that's the sad truth for whatever reason, financial concerns or they believe in it, which even most don't believe in it, but they are doing it for career advancement. they're enabling the policy. and i

would still say from my vantage point, that's actually the majority. they're doing what they're supposed to do and they're not questioning even if they know what's wrong. but there is, i just was the size of a very knowledgable, i mean, bernie sanders is that it create, you know, i've just been hollins entered event, holland. it said it if there is a culpability. they're excited states ever has in these actions up. so that way international criminal court and the international criminal court of justice as genocide may in fact be underway here. so they said we cannot afford that culpability. and you're saying there are people who are knowingly comfortable i had multiple conversations and there are people that have the mindset of just do your job. and i said, but i was hired for my expertise. i was hired to be to help my country. obviously the president at the end of the day makes decisions and that's absolutely correct. but the level of silencing and sidelining and i want to say a culture of fear in the state department that i've seen over the last few months is unprecedented. that you're not even able to articulate your concerns because

you're worried about some type of low back. so to your point of how many people there are, there are significant number. and i know that there are a lot of people that are having a very difficult time with them in, in the administration right now. many of them reached out to me, but there's so many others. countless. most of them are too scared to speak up because they're worried. some of them do speak up and i and my what me and the others that have resign are trying to encourage people to do from within the system is no you don't have to resign. but use your voice and there is power in your voice, but it has to also be a collective, right? because if there's a climate of fear and most people are scared to use their voice, then the status will remains. but that is a detriment to our country. that's not what the state department is supposed to be . that's not what our country is supposed to be. we're supposed to have diverse views, and then we make informed decisions. we're not supposed to be an authoritarian

regime that no matter what the status will remain and a willful, a violation of the law. when you talk about the said, if i were to go to the state farm, they said, you know, we have channels for just sent. we have channels for people to file, things in that sector. experience me blinking weeds every one of these. mm hm. is that true or not true? uh, i, uh, i think it is true that the, the secretary blinking reeves of the sent cables because i think he's, there's a responsibility there with the the sent channel. but i can tell you that the sensor is not just reported through chat a to the sent channels. i wrote, i wrote from channel cables, that's not the sent channel. it's a front channel. many, many, many embassies and consulates are writing cables of concern and reporting facts on the ground. washington is then supposed to assess that, but this has been the issue so much has been reported and no action has been taken . and what we saw with a national security memorandum, and i'm sure you're aware of stacy gilbert who resigned. and there was

a willful changing of the facts. a willful changing of the facts logging and getting rid of what the subject matter experts were saying about what's the fact on the ground or let's explain to the public what social security memorandum the national street man, random, 20 says and requires. okay, so congress require the state department to report back whether or not as well. one of the things was whether or not israel was prohibiting a humanitarian assistance from entering garza because what if that's the case that prompts a policy review and a pause on us arms shipments from the foreign assistance act. the for assistance act ensures that if there is a country that stops humanitarian assistance from entering to a population in need, we cannot give that country weapons. and so the national, i just want to say, is a rough right here. so i'm gonna read show 8 man on may 10th. yes, 2024 on israel, restricting full of aid is reports as we do not currently assess that the as really

government is prohibiting or otherwise restricting the transport or delivery of us to mandatory assistance. and that is a lie, it is a while we see it on, on i think pretty authentic video and recording constantly on the inability to move and the frustration which the administration itself mean that the and john kirby as both person for the national security house and the white house has said, i talked about their frustration with is real interfering with aid and acknowledging they were interfering with it. but it's, so i'm just, i think to call this is a or, well in as an understatement, i can tell you as an american diplomat of 18 years dave, i have had so much horror throughout this policy because this is not the america that i know this is not the state department that i know and this is not the america that i want us to be, or any of us to want us to be no matter what side of the aisle you are on. you should agree that changing documents written by subject matter expert. so stacy

gilbert was one of the subject matter experts. and we have american government officials determining the facts on the ground to our own mechanisms, our own mechanisms which are verified, explaining exactly how israel is prohibiting aid. and then once that goes to senior officials at the political level, they are changing those words and saying that as well as not in violation of that, only to be able to continue an unconditional flow of 8. that for me is tantamount to a violation of the law. there has been so much spin. there's been so many loopholes . there's been so much maneuvering to try to maintain the unconditional slow of aid, which again is to the detriment of obviously palestinians. but also to is really security in the long run. it doesn't make any sense. and that's why i ultimately also decided to resign because it was also hurting everyone. everyone there is no

side that is gaining from this field, militaristic policy. but i should also add with this national security memorandum, another requirement is to validate that the use of weapons provided is being used within the humanitarian guidelines. overnighted states requires. uh huh. uh, and that in that area too. uh, it was determined that is real uh for the most part was not if there were some concerns with some of the attachments, but that our concerns were waived after we looked at is really inspection. so is that part of the package of your concerns? well, absolutely, uh look, the bottom line is that it's a political will issue. that's what it is. if there is political will to acknowledge certain things, we will acknowledge it. if there is no political will, we will find a way to work around it. and now the political will, is by any means necessary, continue. unconditional mounted military assistance. so we have lay, he's reading,

we have the arms export control act. we have the national security memorandum for an assistance act. and what our people have been doing instead of applying these laws, right, they've been trying to figure out how to wiggle their way around these laws, right? in order to justify this policy. because that's where the political leadership is instructing. and signifying, then let me do, let me ask you just real finally, real quickly as we're out of time. but the on the issue of america's brand in the world, which were part of selling. absolutely. what's the state of america's brand in the, in the world of human rights of promoting civic justice of, of you know, basically trying to, you know, position itself as a promo gator of a better world. what is the state of the american brand today? well, i can tell you specifically in the air world because that's where i was working, and that's where i was monitoring. and it's devastated. and i think it will be

a generation, at least in less we act literally now that we will be able to, to re gain our credibility. and for me, as an american, not even as a diplomat, but just as an american, it is so sad because we had, may have so much we had gave so much ground in the air. a world, you know, we've, we've had a rough history. right. but we've always been able to come back from it. we've always, as americans been able to maintain our ideals of, okay, there has been issues, but we're still a country of laws. we're still a country of press freedom. we're still a country of human rights despite all these issues, but now when we're seeing is enabling the mass killings of civilians we have no ground to stand on human rights when we're see not defending the hundreds of journals that are being killed in gaza. we can say anything on press freedom, right? and i can say that this is not just respective to the middle east. we could no longer even say anything on rush or ukraine, right? because we had lost credibility on that, or china or anything for that matter. so it's, it's quite devastating at the moment. and again, if we change course now,

if we apply you westlaw, it's not a punitive, as measured as well. but if we just abide by us law change or policy, right, we need to change course. well, we'll have to ended their former u. s. foreign service officer. holler re. thank you so much for joining us today, and thank you for sharing us this with us. your story. thank you so much for having me. so what's the bottom line? the us government employees, almost 3000000 people. supporters of the state as quote will say, ok, so around 9 to resign during the biden administration. scott's a policy, what's the big deal? it is a big deal. this is not a numbers game, it's about principals. i'm aware of some diplomats and some military analysts with impeccable reputations who have nothing but respect to the folks who resigned out of moral and ethical considerations. there are signs that these resignations are heard and felt, but it's not clear that they're making a difference. but here's the real issue. america believes that it does reflect

diverse opinions. but at this moment in this crisis, those diverse voices are being squelched. sideline and silence on garza. and that's the bottom line. the of maybe 300 people died, one slight mh 17 or shut down of ukraine. but a decade later i have to fight for just as continues. must go, refuses to hand over 3 men convicted of mass magic bluff, prosecute us. believe russia's president was directly involved, 101 east investigates the case against platinum includes in on our just era and the lines of ethnic on groups is posing the biggest challenge to me in most countries, since the 2021 with exclusive access to remote camps. in front find battles, people in power shops, the progress of an idealist. the young generation of rebels is

a pivotal moment in the last 60 years of the countries. the trouble history on the phones being ma, on the, on the ropes on al jazeera, the streets of con, units and central colors are flooded with on $32.00 ways to, to from piles of protein rotation. months of these very bombardments have caused extensive damage to see resistance, diesel, a nation thoughts and water supplying works. even before october the summit house, the news being done was a faced shortage of clean drinking. more recently on various agencies as well as well has intensified the known running crisis. hepatitis is spreading among children as well as adults is the results of mound nutrition, and the like a couple of healthy food view and has one's of the to a rating and spin human living conditions. it says that even if an immediate cease fires into them into it, it will take kids to repass the damage close to the destination of plants,

sewage systems, and networks of water supplies the to serve units see from us republicans that the conventions as donald trump makes us 2nd, the parents just days off to savannah, i think on s. fascination attend the carry johnston. this is sarah from the also coming is ready for us is a talk. you have to know that you and run school in gauze that the palestinians have been seeking. shelton dozens of killed the thousands of people protest across the

kenya, demanding president when he steps to hell on china. and the philippines agreed to set up a.