on the go and eat tonight out is there is only move i left, is that the, this is where we, the effect allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorites apps to just set for it and typed on a new app from out to 0 new at you think is it the on the hello i made or instead of get a, this is counting the cost on i was just seeing where you are. we can look at the business of a couple things. this spring theorist says domination of the global economy said, decades, but the world is friendship by geopolitical tensions. globalization is pricing of backlash. is the economic or the change, or is it the u. s. versus china?

the trade war between the 2 nations are seen to help the competition between washington and paging could accelerate the collapse of the old system. so what's the alternatives? developing nations are formed, economic alliances like brooks to count up the dominance of the west. but when it book, the economic integration and globalization of freeflow trade with the us for held, that's the economic go to the world is known for decades today though, this integration of the rules based world order is evident for all to see countries of becoming more in would looking regulates re fences, have been a wrecked at the world. trade organization is in limbo, nations or racing to build the industries of a few chips and trade restrictions are increasingly being imposed by the system that govern the global economy. since the 2nd world war is at a tipping point now,

both and ever so is a new world order emerging. we'll discuss back with, i'll guess shortly. but 1st, let's listen to what some leaders have to say about the old one. the poor countries have bein and being a pest and title lies by the rich countries. naturally, the poor i'll be to an angry and have lost faith in justice and on global political economy, government created more than 6 victory have not kept pace. the changing realities of the word functional, understand really metrics remains the one dynamic elements in the global economy. and as such, they will account for a significant share of trade changing should have the funding room going out of 5. the development of the emerging market and developing countries is not intended to move the cheese, but to make the part of the global economy. because we should push forward the

establishment of governing models and rules which will balance and inclusive. we should push forward the reform of the global economic governance system to reflect the current structure and realities. me want to keep the whole spike each night. i asked myself, why should every country have to be tied to the dollar for trade? why can't we trade in our own currency if you don't know where they move? and why don't we have the commitment to innovate? newport discovery with a new list. did you, when you, we're against any kind of a gemini or exclusivity propagated by some countries and the new policy of ongoing colonialism near colonialism based upon this assumption. and the way we have to reform global economics, financial and political as well as the most to little trading system so that we can create it, couldn't just safe environment for veterans. let's introduce you to

a panel of experts and get a quick reaction from them from single pool, which one by denny clauses, dean and location. professor at economics at the national university of single pul from johannesburg, which was my rena bureau son, who's a senior research at the institute for global dialogue, at a specialist on the ricks block. and finally, at london, felipe la ground, who was a political economist and full of special adviser to the director general of the world trade organization, di is the will older, the old world order, close the collapse. i don't think so much is close to collapse by itself. it's certainly being question from all sides. the clips that you showed, the clips that we heard a few minutes ago with ones that were from what sometimes we think of as the global self. and they were critical of the international economic board. and one of the interesting turnarounds is that today the advanced economy is to reach economies

out, also critical of the international economic order. and how this comes out is going to be really interesting going forward. i don't think that we're gonna have to be thinking about how we, we think categories it might no longer be breaks on global south, west versus east. but more groups of countries that have an adherence to economic performance that dynamic and forward looking a keen to emphasize trade key to think about building out economic fundamentals seem to continue to work with a level playing field. then on the other side, a group of no nations that might have historically had the up ahead, but for whole now growth is in need. and so that it seems to me is the increasing confrontation that will be a challenge to the international economic order. 3,

that would you agree with that? if the old world order is, is not collapsing right now, the economic central gravity is shifting, isn't it? absolutely, and i mean, part of the fixture strategic intention is to use that partnership to create windows where they can also change the world and where the search everyone should not be the focus because countries, pragmatic for the forces themselves. but if we look at the institutions specifically from the post world war to order that we characterize the world or the bi multilateralism is and has been under attack. and if you look at the brooks and the values and the statements, but they advocate for rules based order, govern by international law and celebration of multi let's tourism may take for granted that this may be interpreted for one's fine value systems. and so the criticism is that the world is in a constant state of stable and key in the institutions like your

w t. r should be instilling these relevant boundaries to metal acadia and strategic interests. and it's improved really the racist a smaller countries. but magic and middle powers that need to uphold institutional values to build this kind of critical mass that is needed to create a culture of accountability, the people that, that we want to see for they've, what's going wrong with the institutions that were designed to safeguard the the old well order of a now defunct, i think was changed is the all to the which is the one that provided since they had to come. who in the early ninety's was based on focus for parents are now crumpled out. the 1st is western economic dominance and assigning a sense um the west is defined as the rest have risen at the 2nd was exceptional period of us a g of physical cabin a. and we now live in an increasingly multi part of wild,

which is characterized by 3 by cheer, political conflict between the still don't us and the rising china assembly as time it was a narrative. um, before that was a belief in our market switch. trump pretty much everything. now, increasingly that is used by national security concerns added the industrial policy at priorities, not just in the west also and showing there indeed has always been the case. i'm not, but not least of us putting those to suppose international rules and should by far the most the time. i'm not successful for hegemonic power. i'm not, not that is no longer the case is little because of the united states. it's not the case. i can show it to 900, they were willing to accept, i significant a constraint on very phenomena policy badging. and the actual reason the all the for the quarter of the big question policy microsoft was, is it going to make this richer?

and now the key priority is, is it going to make us more secure? okay, before we go, any saw the trade and investment flows assessing into a new pass and is built around the top 2 economies, the us and china, who racing to shape the norms and rules of the world. so you cannot make, i'm political to washington is raising that. he's on badging with investment cubs and trade restrictions. china is redirecting large parts of its economy away from the west toward the developing world coffee, a lopez for the young reports. the world is changing fast, and so is the global economic order trade wars between the us and china are fueling much of the shift forging new alliances and fracturing old ones. us president joe biden recently issued a new round of terrier of somebody jane effecting about $18000000000.00 worth of chinese products, including electric vehicles, batteries and semiconductors. bottom line i want for our competition with china,

not conflict. and we're in a stronger position to win that economic competition. the 21st century is china. that anyone else? china has repeatedly accusing us of bullying and of market protectionism. don't go to you. if the united states persists, china will take resolute and forceful measures to firmly defend itself identity, security, and developing to enter the domain slash. and when the rising tensions between the us and china are not new, they 1st escalated, during terms of presidency and have continued since much of the focus now turns to the european union. and who will choose to do business with in the long term. try miss industrial policy, may seem remote as we sit here in this room. but if we do not respond strategically and in the united way, the viability of businesses in both or countries and around the world could be at

risk. china is capitalizing on divisions and a recent visit to serbia president teaching thing established stronger ties with the eastern european country, which has been waiting for e u. membership for over a decade. inches, i strongly finally going home and shop with the joint efforts of both countries, the china for be a free trade agreement, formerly begins in july. staging is also building stronger ties with around a long time arrival of western governments. the warrant ukraine is another factor. this disruptive energy supplies across europe. and it's also we can ties between russia and the west, but strengthen them elsewhere, including parts of africa. getting body is open for business and what comes and

will comes investments, partnerships and what, what it is. it's a battle between 2 super powers with the us and china looking to dominate one economic order, while the race for artificial intelligence, digital technologies, and geo political influence plays out on the world stage. katia little bits of the un elda 0 for counting the cost a new alliance as a pos of the changing world. countries with some of the agendas and priorities of clusters into clubs, among them, the bricks nation. so let's take a closer look at the plot. the lead us up for sale, russia, india, and china found at the group in 2009 south africa joined a year later. bricks is designed to be a new global voice. supposing what it sees as a unit latrell approach to g of politics. ricks nations want to change the in balance by creating an alternative to us lead financial institutions. in 2015,

they found that the new development bank, the counter organization, such as the world bank and the international monetary fund. they also aimed to reduce their reliance on the us dollar. bricks represent nearly a 3rd of the global economy and really health of its population. the total g, d, p, and purchasing power parity terms is actually bigger than that of the g 7. the block is growing to the u. a wrong, and if you appeal at each, it's joint this year. saudi arabia was invited to join, it's membership is pending, but it's additional only amplify the brooks ambition to become the champion of the global south of rita. to what extent of the bricks, nations, countries like india and brazil to are trading the ways of prosperity right now. reliance upon the old world, all the remaining in tax or is it holding them back? so what's interesting about these 2 countries is that in prison and you're able to

lift bridge, the relationship with the old, old old. and they've also proven to be more flexible and adaptable powers in the international system. so with perks coming into play, the success of breakfast, really dependent on the strength of by true relationships, as well as the country as an individual power course. but as we see breaks towards something like $200.00 meetings a. yeah. and so you have an accelerated growth and political and economic cooperation is constant meeting, which is definitely contributing to their success dining with, with the more nations, a joining clubs coming together to, to, to make the most of the economic cloud. what's the future for the us dollar? do you think when it remains the dominant currency, the future of the, the world reserve currency? the us to all in this case is going to depend on whole range of factors, but likely a high on that list is set to men and confidence. and often that does not run

parallel with a hand in hand with new facts on the ground who's got the greatest coalition. so that is definitely a space to watch. but i would also be maybe a little bit averse to suggesting that the whole world wants to dive into an old tentative will order headed by it on the rich nations, all whichever of the nation. 80 percent of the will list in countries that are not a great power. and for many of us outside of that circle, what do we want to see? principles that going to thinking about how well order can be constructed rather than simply who is where in that coalition, on this front, i think that we should be lot, so i'm anxious to so quickly

a ditch the old will order of globalization and capitalism that would grant ideas there that arguably the most successful of the breaks nations, china, leverage and leverage successfully. the grand ideas included the notion of how you want to organize things. so then you can all make li officiant way. you need it to leverage competitive advantage. and countries like china and smaller nations leave range these ideas powerfully in the process of lifting hundreds of millions of their citizens out of poverty. i don't think that the will need so quickly rushing to an alternative well order until we've really thought through how we can see the current rules based one. i suspect that many of the bricks, nations, when they come down to think about it, i'm not averse to actually holding onto this old will order. but there are many who

i should a lot trying to pull away from it for the for i'll come to you just another. but the reason i say, you know, the, the absolutely, i mean the brick, stephanie, do not want to throw everything out the window or, but in terms of pushing for war, especially in terms of trade. you see there's this big conflict between you and our nurse show that the world finds itself in. and when you look at the w t r a going with this moment, you have moments of promise especially and how countries went to work together for the rest of the causes and how my main term sometimes were broder reform seen just fizzle out. but countries are still trying to understand how to understand global supply chains turn is major as a major role in this and how it's going to be reconfigured and how the future of bubble comments is also guard just special, especially in the context of environmental concerns and a sporadic jump,

let's cycle changes and challenges and the old well being spaced with the failure full of development amongst united the w t or discussions. and the system is katie, not working for everyone, especially because the system suffers from this trust. staples that we've been talking about. but this really drives harms that desire for global reform while trying to pretty and on to institutions that miss to gate existing formats and existing efforts. felicia, who brings about this, this global reform that i mean a how, how will it be done? do you see the future of being dealt increasingly by, by clubs like, like, bricks like minded or geographic, the group nations, instead of, instead of this global rules based daughter? i wanted to ask you about about the i m f with an alternative credit has like india and china available right now. what does the i m s, have a future phone to make a distinction between at this all i have for a farrah drive in water,

which is what, how many advantage here is that this nonsense is program expressed and indeed are the palace oh, sorry, expressed and one of us likely to happen as a result of the breakdown of the existing order. and i'm going to fight for a price of fast. i'm skeptical so that the moves currently in play to ship it to a conflict between the us. try adjusting china and the breakdown if it's a national institutions by the w t a is trying to lead to the firewall. um, yeah, the brakes running, but i started off as a goldman sachs marketing slogan. it was that adopted by the latest with as country . it's not play to me, they haven't had a lot to come in. i was india and china are cheapest for rifles. so maximize the export isn't selling. commodity influences some, as a reader said, i have tries to tries to the west as well as twice the china authors are clearly in

a n t west. and i can obviously the choice between them all that's significant. and in any case, they are only a small number of countries in a very large quote. so i skipped smoothly with the brakes itself. okay. um in terms of a full with the international institutions. um we, i think the be sure is probably the was the most successful institution, all feel well daughter. it was crisis underway for much of actual different possession. there was a huge success of printing china in, in 2001. and since the, basically it's ground uh to a standstill, it's increasingly ignored by the us and showing that they've got their own way. the dispute has went back into some of which results. and i still just based is largely in a best. and i think that's a tragedy. i don't think that's losing to refer well, i think, you know, the double chevreuse,

which will not fit but which was applied largely and partially guaranteed equal voice to small players like guaranteed spanners for pretty much everybody and going to a world or might might that makes noise, as little clouds isn't going to make things better than sleep. how a brief thoughts are, if you can please, how likely is a full blown economic pool. as you say, that with the w t o being toothless right now? how likely is a full blown economic war between the u. s. and all the western china? i was supposed to go to see the thing, but um, i saw more if that uh, that depend on the city in taiwan. um to generate i think we are moving to a different world older its, uh, a 2nd cold rule. i say a 2nd cold cool because what's in which geo products ext uh trumps economics. and the actual while across it you'll see the pool. you want a well,

based on open markets from which single pull cars, frustrated and closer to reflect that because you want a fair economic system for which i ask you to benefit. but if for large powers, increasing the sides, well actually, uh, industrial policies on national security concerns come 1st. you need a sort of power to accommodate yourself. how to those positions and some which is one to. so i'm gonna choose another. and so i'm gonna try to struggle 5. if i have to not be forced to choose done it, i'll wait in a new code. what are we in an era of nationalization? why salacious and d globalization isn't? well, i, i hear that language a lot and obviously, you know, philip has made a very compelling case for this. i happen to disagree, i think, said we need to pull back from the language that says this is a cold war and maybe focus on the idea that really the,

the part of contention here you can all make and that we conflate the issue is when we talk about coal, we're even indeed when we talk about security during the regional coal, americans would genuinely worried there's a sylvia to building a political and economic system that would come to mind the american way of life destroyed the american. we have government now today, however much one looks at the bullying behavior of the chinese aggressive exporting actions of the south china sea military build. that i don't think anyone in their right minds would accuse trying to, trying to build an economic system. that is a plug in replacement for westman style liberals. democracy truth, the truth be told, i don't think she's in thing really care said oh, what kind of political system the west wants to run. what he wants to do is to bring about economic prosperity in a way that hughes as much as he can to the original rules based order. and right

now the nations that um, most pulling away from that system are not the emerging countries are not the ones that felt previously challenged by the international economic system. the, the washington consensus type of economic system. but instead, the risk countries and you know the language about it's being no secure, the competition. unfortunately, rings a lot of early era, lot of competition with the soviet union for which the competition was not we can all make. but of us competition with japan. a lot of the language about, you know, depend, uh, economic superiority, threatening undermining us. security is a quote today and the peculiar thing and all of that is that japan and all of that time was from the liberal democracy dependent. all of that time was

a strong partner of america in america's uh, strategic alliance in the pacific. so my own sense is that, you know, when we get in to talk about security, talk about the coil, we might be taking our eye off of the real competition. okay. which isn't economic one, which is that, you know, some countries in the world, the feeling that china is um, undermining dismantling the in industrial structure, stealing the jobs, engaging in and the program that will lead to the taking control of technology. so the future, any comics the right way to deal with that is not to shotwell. and then we have to say bill security, but to pick one stuff up, lose your own productivity. train your people, get to a point where you can compete. i'm sorry, it's up to just to cut you off, but the time is, is against us. i want to have one last time from arena. are you optimistic about

the future arena? come the huge reductions and pull this he brought about by globalization and imperfect though it was the, the old world or the continue without says, i think it's always possible to be up to mistake about the future. um, especially if it depends who's viewing this kind of future. if we look at the coal for alternative anything, alternative, finance sources, alternative payment systems, there is a demand for an economy, but presents all advocates for different menus. and if we were just to, to look at, at a chinese learning, there's an example or in those lines as an example of it's, it's, it's interesting to note that in the long run, maybe they're not as cheap as i'm a single bank. but they're attractive because i mean, especially with the chinese, like they come with grace period 5 to 2 years with countries can start repaying

them politically. this is where it's high. the practical for a sits in government. i says, repayment doesn't begin until the end of the 10, possibly, and store your, the desire to have something different to have an alternative to and leverage that in terms of, of who is finding who i think that is that is an interesting time. we find ourselves and, and it is more about the smaller powers finding a way to leverage this moment to pull themselves to find their agency in that the, we must leave it. we're out of time. many sites in the dining cloth arena, bureau, son and phillip le girl dots our show for this week. if you'd like to comment on anything you've heard in our discussion, i'm at a friend again on x. use the hash tag h a c t c. if you remember, or you can drop us a line causing the cost of how to 0, don't let us on e mail address. as always,

there's plenty more few online. i'm just here dot com slash c t c. that takes you straight to the page, that you'll find individual reports, links at a time episodes to catch up. but that's it for this edition of cash and the cost on a tree, instead of going from the team here at the face of the thing, whether it's the abuse on al jazeera, this next the in depth analysis of the day sidelines he's right, is like his res, accusing that there was an okey dokey, the point them cents informed opinions. this is person's 1st visit to no credit in 24 years. why is he making it now critical debate? i believe the selections will empower him in any way as well as voters in america inside story massachusetts, the group was fine to send on out jersey around there . he also was an airbag, my name is hello. i was abducted by the c. i, a, in 2004,

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