a non done should be used in an offensive way. that's how did you facing realities you're running? mean, what does he bring to the table? hard from being presidential? could we go to some we cannot take the fact that he was signing a present as not that important factor. he had the story on talk to how does era phase of writing in england and bell fast social media has been used by the far right to spread rumors about immigrants and organized protests that have become 5, thousands of police officers are on alert. so what's behind the surgeon, find this is inside start the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm john. thousands of police officers are on high alert in the u. k. after writing and cities and towns in england and in belfast. the violence has been blamed by prime minister care storm

are on far right. activists and groups organizing themselves online individuals rather than organizations seem to have been driving the protests, almost all focused around migrants, mosques have also been targeted. migration has been a leading topic in politics and media in the u. k for several decades. with some newspapers and politicians carving out a hard line stance. the last conservative government had planned to deport illegal migrants to were wanting to a plan dropped by the new labor one. so why has there been such a wide spread and sudden upsurge in violence and how have politics and media affected attitudes on migration? we'll be discussing this with our guest shortly. but 1st, this report from victoria getting be riots by phone. roy protest is a straight across the u. k stopped by a series of motors in a seaside town in the north west of england. 3 goes age 67 and $9.00 was step to death and the noise to attack it is children's dense class. in southport police

arrested a 17 year old boy who was born in person, but uses on social media falsity claimed he was a muslim asylum seeker newly elected reform, and pe, nigel farrell, as was criticized to speculating whether in his words the truth was being withheld . bios ortiz, a most can south pole was attacked by a far right mob. local communities are being thrown apart, and these people from outside are coming in and literally just destroying the mosque. we spoke into the a mom from southport. he said he had to barge locked himself inside the office and his other members were in the mosque at the time. they were afraid the door was going to be broken down in the days that followed the riot spread hotly. pool in the northeast of england, the police call with satellites. and in london, crowds pelted the gates of downing street and with police offices that prompted the prime minister to hold an emergency meeting with police to the 1st of all right is

because this is to make to this is a deliberate, this is not to protest that this got out of hand, it is a group of individuals. so her opposite depends on violence. but despite government warnings, disorder has persisted. in nothing and offices were confronted by falls right, protested in holla, crowd demonstrated outside a hotel, housing migrants, and dissolute bro. cash in belfast campaign is opposing racism sent out on the streets saying those spreading hate emission information must be stopped. before we bought in the fifty's, we for the 7 days in breton, we will not allow the right way to dump and i are working towards the are

the only a month after being elected. the new labor government is facing a national crisis and the prime minister and home secretary are having to focus on stopping violence across the streets of the united kingdom, victoria gates and b l g 0 for inside story. the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests. joining us for london is shopping that big them chief executive officer of the running me trust. a british race equality and civil rights think tank. and oxford katie brown is a post doctoral fellow at duke university in ireland. she focuses her research on mainstream far right discourse, also in london. so on. this is a, is a computational social scientist interested in the links between this information and political extremism. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on the inside story shopping that let me start with you today. all of these riots, all of this violence, this is all interrupted so quickly. why has there been such

a wide spread and relatively sudden upsurge and violence? i don't think i just say it has been an outbreak of buttons, but i think it's fun surprising given that the long lineage fall anti immigrants is not a very big team. and our vision that we've seen in all mainstream politics now, but the thing is particularly intensifying in the last few weeks and months. a sentence alternative 7th with a gaza. i'm what's been happening now. and then with the, the general reaction campaign by june at all. so that's the kind of narrative that result being espoused by all mainstream political parties. the trading in insults around, within communities, has become a qual, moving ised by all mainstream political policies. a service on surprising when you see such a hostile environment created by a politician that,

that they have boss on on the street. and the way you have done over that off to you few days katie, i saw you reacting quite a bit to a shop and it was saying that it looked like you wanted to jump in, so please go ahead to. yeah, no i think i just okay. workshop no is saying mainly because we've witnessed with the election campaign and not she long predating that we've breaks it as well. the normalization of anti migration disclose is not just from the far right, but from the main stream within the tory party and the labor party as well. and these protests being stein's that's a start to base, and that's a direct quote from the previous conservative government. and then you got labor coming in now they did scrap they were when the policy, as you mentioned, but they did that often kind of claiming that it was because the policy was ineffective. they way and challenging the premise of it or the principle of that i'm,

i'm secretary it back in the host of the secure the security of britain's board is, is to the top priority as well. so we've seen a continuation of this and violent rhetoric from the main stream, and that's played a key role in emboldening uh, these uh, actors and creates in the atmosphere that we're seeing in britain, the maintenance or something that let me ask you to pick up on a point you were making and also a point that katie was making just now when it comes to this rhetoric that is demonizing of migrants and migration. when you hear a top tier politicians in the u. k saying stop the boats are talking about invasions going on at the border. first of all, how different is that from what you were hearing from politicians just a decade ago. the fact that this is all being normalized, but also how much does that impact this kind of anti migration sentiment throughout society? yeah, i think you're right to say that there has been

a market shift in the, you know, just schools. and that we have the been in the last 2 years with a previous document, a bill escalation of that kind of style narrative, particularly kind of as it was the creation of don barnum policies. so we've seen a real activation and an escalation of some of those narratives. i'm not legit to mind. is that kind of demonized asian of my friends. but i think it's really important that we will say that if it's not the, the, the bonnet that we've seen in the last few days hasn't been just directed to my friend has been directed to support that towards muslim communities as, sorry, it's mock back and talking to people of color and brown to be targeted by this barn is. so, you know, it's really important that we don't just kind of locate to as part of this. and in the good narrative to ask him good. now to has always been racialized. and that has, we've seen that kind of spill out into the barn and, and the way that,

that bar that says targeted, not just margaret community is not just people seeking a sort of is countries that sort of midland communities as a black people. i've been some of the videos that we've seen circulation of social media search. this is jaime racialized and acts of basic rights and that with even offer it's so hard to kind of continue with the theme that shrapnel was talking about there. you know mr. misinformation around all this 1st, been online that the suspect in the murder of these girls was muslim immigrants in the far right groups. false explained, the suspect was an asylum seeker, how much of a role, how social media played in driving all of this and fueling these riots in having an impact when it comes to the violence or c. um you know, thank you for having me as a split, a huge role. i think um, you can see it from the, from the very beginning when um these uh potemkin, uh,

new sites that basically do nothing but uh put out and verify the um on mostly on verified information. um, spell the name of the faith name of this um a your, the asylum seeker, a person. and that began spreading around and basically directing what had already been building up for months in terms of a timeless limb and time of it and propaganda towards a specific event. you know, focusing people the series on to that. and yeah, that the, the incentives now are probably worse than ever because of the, the monetization and they'll pay the combination of the money monetization. i'm deal, pasadena surrounding monetization and surrounding the in identities and, and being able to track what's, what's behind what. there are many accounts that are behind those that are spreading them to the information around this that were supposedly created

a long time ago and just then just scrubbed and renamed and yeah, they've been, yeah, i was spending more information around this and yeah, that's sort of thing and katie, um let me ask you, what was the scale of from your vantage point of the missing information online and from your vantage point also, how much has social media driven anti immigrants sentiment driven you know, our fuel these demonstrations thus far as well. i think clearly it has played a role and it also has a space full of the spreading of this information and a, a grade levels. and it also gives an organizing space for these groups as well as a social media is important. but i think the danger also in a uber emphasizing the role upstairs, shall need you in this and attracting attention away from some of the issues. the

shop no is raising um around the role of the politicians, political parties, traditional media as well. they all play a role in creating this political atmosphere. and so i think, yes, we can talk about the role of social media. um, but i think the, we need to, to look at this in a more rounded fashion and the kinds of narratives that being portfolio with. and by those who we see on television, screens in the newspapers and the way that they're talking about these issues as well. okay, let me ask you more about that. i mean, how much has the way that migration is discussed in the media outlets throughout the government? how much has that changed and recent years as well? i mean, i've gotten, it was kind of touching on similar points to, to what something now is saying that has been this escalation around it. and i've

seen it in the case here, for instance, when they were, they were talking about the pastor traits or the attack, the bbc referred to him as born in wales, to rewind and parents. now what's the purpose of a referring to his lineage, other than to feed into this kind of other ring narrative as well. and so we do need to look at the traditional media and political parties of government as well. and, and that role shopping. i saw you reacting just now to what katy was saying, look like you wanted to add to that. go ahead. yeah, i think we're often led to believe this idea, but it's a both democratized, that, that politician to be acting to kind of legitimate grievances and kind of this idea of popular concerns. the rising broke naturally, and we'll get it to me. but actually,

what we do know is that exactly if katie just described the traditional media and mainstream politicians are actively responsible for crossing immediate, eating the messaging on there and where they have been on this particular incident . but hopefully, how they have talked about immigration, how they have told about muslims have created the profit. but i'm talking consistent but voted as volumes to occur. so when politicians turn around and talk about being surprised and shocked at apartments, and incidentally by reading pull to me not being else quoted out to being a racist writing in any times that i've seen so far. when they're expecting that that, that sadness and then grants and then talk action, releasing all of these issues. what they need to be aware of is their role, their responsibility. and they're called betting creation back pocket environment for these barnes. and we're talking about levels of bonds that we haven't seen

enough street in decades. the kind of gone is that my parents would have been exposed to the back of the 1960 and the 19 seventy's, but which is now being pays out on the street town. cities across the u. k. and that car just be put down, submit the information on the online space. it's been talking about the politics that's coming out of the u. k. parliament and which is being reported and also additional established media. so how do i know that in this discussion we're going beyond just the misinformation that's being put out there on online platforms. but i do want to go back to it for a moment and ask you a couple of questions pertaining to that. first of all, are there concrete steps that can be taken to counteract this kind of misinformation that, that spread so quickly it's spread like wildfire online and it's so what is it that can be done? one thing more, more transparency. um, like preventing crowns from just being

a scrum without any um, definitely tracing and being reused for propaganda. um in more, more technically i guess it would be introducing some kind of uh, friction um perhaps and collaboration with like shop crowd sourcing. um a fact checking um and just generally making sure that something that is, that is spreading uh too fast has a little has the brakes pulled on a little bit so that people who have the, who have we're interested in the troops can, didn't get to it before um, before it starts getting into the monetization cycle of the far right. so let me also ask you, um, how organized are the efforts of these far right extremist groups? i mean how, how centralized are they? um, and if most of this has been fueled online and through social media platforms, how difficult does that make it to, to track these kinds of groups and to track their activities?

uh, it seems mostly leaderless. um that's just kind of every, every person for themselves. um, the, the, the, as i said, the incentives are, are really good for getting people to just put on whatever the catches the most eyeballs to get to the most attention. there, there is some possible evidence of collusion among accounts. there are some accounts that suspiciously read which i read for you to each other or repose each other at a suspicious me close intervals. so there there's some on some level there are some collaboration but um possibly even the same people doing it, but yeah on overall is mostly the most me meet or less. um. yeah. katy, um, let me ask you to examine a different aspect of all of this. i mean has political leadership in the u. k. been leading or hasn't been following a narrative shaped by this anti immigrant faction that we've seen in politics and

media? well, i think mean all these questions we have to think about the relative power that people have say, you know, people ingles and then have the power to shape narratives around these issues. and, and so when, when we look at this often there's this idea that you know, that being led by popular sentiment. but actually, the ones who have the media access in a, in a number of cases. and we've seen them push as human gratian politics. so for instance, says where i am, i call the civilian one during the winter, i'm unable to and people's perceptions around the issues the most important to them in that day to day lives. and in day to day lives. immigration did not a feature highly old, that. 2 was the same question on the country level, and that's where the immigration featured higher now was if people get these ideas

from if it, if it doesn't affect you in your day to day life, and then how are you getting this information? and that's why we need to look at politically does traditional need you to see that responsibility in normalizing this kind of exclusion reraise this politics? so can you let me ask you then? i mean, what do you think are the steps that could be taken to actually start combating this? well, let's say that is a very tough question that, i mean, i think a starting point is actually putting forward, alternative narratives we've seen. and the politicians are peddling the same kinds this and see most of them and seeing the gratian, racist narratives. and as far right, please. and you don't beat the fall right by the coming them. so we need to see progressive alternatives that deal with the issues that are important to people in

that day to day likes, like the cost of living crisis, education and health issues like that. so you know, trying to beat the fall right on it certain times. but actually putting forward progressive alternatives that, that helps people in that day to day hides. so on, i saw your reacting there to what katie was saying. look like you wanted to jump in and add to the point she was making. so please go ahead. yeah, absolutely. the, the narrative it has um, and inserting information ecosystems has definitely shifted in a, in a very destructive way. and i think it's important to also not just look at like, how can we, you know, attempt to not look at actually how we can just send sort of the social media. we should look at um, how we can actually fix the problem is that people are facing really um,

you know and improve the improve people's lives and get people a better narrative to look towards. um yeah, i agree shop that looked like you also wanted to add to that. please go ahead. yeah, i'd agree with the sentiments expressed that we've seen already of the politics developed over the last few years. we started to deal with the bill issues confronting people in that day to say lives. and i think we need to see a real shift and i'll call a text and we need to see will tend to provide the narrative as katie describes them. and i think we need to fall off typically this takes that their responsibility based on the agenda, the how these events upgrade, seeing how they translate into how people experience things like immigration, things like the economic hardship, those things about political, economic choices made by color petitions they are by no means the responsibility of

immigrants almost mean communities of color missed country shopping. let me also ask you, um, when you're talking about political leadership taking responsibility. this is obviously a massive challenge for your stormers. new government, i mean, is this labor government going to be able to handle this any differently? are you seeing any signs of that as well? absolutely has to have, i think we have any real choice table. we're seeing that the last few days can't be allowed to continue. we do needs to be political leadership. we need to see some action which thursday you on just meet amount a kind of attempts to talk about criminal disorder and the we, we need to name as racism and racist bias that happening. and we that means to take the action that protects community to expose to that hub, but we need to move beyond that as well. and we think we, we, we, we need longer term solutions which address the real world that, that, into our politics where the problem that address the real issues and to be able to choose. it's casey told about the ones that, that,

that people on that day to day lives, the kind of things that need us to think about how well, what does well distribution looks about in this country, houses and stairs impacted communities in this country. that's the conversation that we need to have, but right now brought here, but now we need to be thinking about how to we stop by the volume that's going on and protect those communities. the are exposed to the apartments, the shopping of the steps that you were talking about taking. i mean, do you think there is the political will right now to actually take those steps? oh, i got to be honest, i haven't seen and very much to indicate that there is that political well i think that we have seen communities come to get back to me is to protect each other community to bound them off to try as opposed to the bar rights and groups i've gathered outside of them. so i hired to the actually of political lead is inspired by that and seeing how people and communities kind of come together to oppose far

by racist ideas. and that communities and especially above the cartridge, is actually in danger. he answered that they did that, but they not quite a bit to bunch that katie, how much would you say the media and the way that all this has been reported? has that shaped all of this? so yeah, i think it has a needs. we've seen this focus, i'm on the idea of criminality. and that, that brings in the, the sort of response that you're looking at. so storm is that about bringing in a new violent disorder unit. so that's kind of dealing with it through the criminal lens rather than focusing on those long term issues that the shop now was talking about underway that the political climate has been feeding into this. i mean, whole, so i've seen in the media how the these activities have been reported on. and then

there's also been tool could rival pretty tests. and where, and there's always this equivalence between anti racist mobilizations and people who are coming and vandalizing most attacking people in the street. so we also need to look at the media and the way that they've reported. and the creation of these a claim on says and that could that distort the nature of these, these different groups. he was a trying to, uh, combat the far right as well. and then katie, let me also ask you about what role you think for right media has played in all of this and getting these attitudes out there for mainstream discussion in the last few in the last few decades, you know, more and more. uh, print and tv outlets, online outlets in, in the u. k that are right wing media outlets. how does that impact all this? yeah, i think they have had an impact. and again, with social media there is

a growing profile full of far right. media outlets as well, but again, i think our attention can be distracted from the fact that we're seeing least within traditional media as well. you know, a couple of weeks ago the guardian has a, an odd school with former prime minister, tony blair saying that in order to defeat the far right, you need to come to immigration. and these are the kinds of narratives the being pushed in traditional major as well sir. i think sometimes we can be distracted when we're looking to the far right where i'm missing more directly in front of us as well. shop. now we only have a couple of minutes left, but let me just ask you from your perspective right now. i mean, if this isn't dealt with in a, in a constructive way, how concerned are you about where all this is headed? and i'm really concerned even now i think that we're talking about what, what time in the days ahead. i think what was the work now, grand max of bonn,

community the on to see that huge the concerning, it's something that is a real threat to those communities and had spot be amongst community to outside of the city newtown square. it has directly taken place. so i think it's really, really important that we, we deal with this as katie said by doing the immediate time, but the longer term, and really back to life how valuable, how fearful they both caught. and you'd have meeting right now. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're gonna have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest shop in the bedroom, katie brown, and so on to susan. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just you or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. you can also during the conversation on x. r handle is as a j and such story for me or how much i'm doing the whole team here. bye for now. the

maybe his son does head to head with his really historians that he morris. the jews were on the 5th of annihilation by the arabs. and that's my view legitimize justified cleansing arabs from palestine the who to said exactly the same thing about maybe food in 1990. israel is committed numerous of all crimes. since the last 4 friends on october, the 7th, i'm fairly sure that'd be rough time to work. so it's not a well time head to head on tuesday around in the end, to live with anger and bitterness of hatred. it at each you up inside. and i can tell you that from personal experience, you have to be able to that go to go for the journey was a great success. but there's no success until you've achieved the actual thing that

you set out for that is the release, at least of the one present that, that we've been focusing on. on a personal level, i think returning to this place as being the it's just a dream to the background. part of it was a nightmare. so it's a nightmare and a dream come together. i think the dream has overtaken the night african stories from african perspectives. i'll say i am a creative at heart 3 short documentary spy, african filmmakers from nigeria, south africa, and zambia. i like my children, i like the me that because he didn't lead business to a sion of slaves and we all the same as the forest women of i've seen from the cape and a dream worth chasing a new series of africa direct on outages 0 we are the ones traveling the extra mile there?

are the media don't go. we go there and we give them a chance to tell their story. the, the, the hello, this is the news now until the cry live from dark. coming off in the next 60 minutes, protest isn't bank the dish, i'm much into the capital deca. after at least 97 people were killed in clashes with willing policies to for the police on sunday. is ready forces bomb to schools and gallons. and so the coming at least 50 displace palestinians, most of the victims with children, asian equity markets plunge on the back and 5th of a recession in the us, driven by worse than expected employment. i guess you guys prime minister cast thomas is 5 right son.