in america, to one of the most dangerous, with the government declaring war on the guns and corruption, the people in power investigates with causes behind the search and violence. and it's devastating impact on the nation. ecuador, on the fire, on that jersey though. the head of the you and nuclear watch dog worlds. military action is posing serious risk to the coolest. can you clear power plants most coast has a facility in russia has been attacked by euclidian forces, chief hasn't commented. so how dangerous is the situation is inside story, the hello that on james bay's, the head of the international atomic energy agency williams. there's a risk of a nuclear incident from fighting near the coast. can nuclear power plant in russia

during your visit? rafael draw seat said it's nuclear, react to, it has no protective shield, meaning there's a high risk of disaster. it's hit by missile equate in forces crossed into the coast region just over 3 weeks ago. and the fighting has moved closer to the facility, putting it well within range of you claiming weapons, nuclear risk. so being a constant since the stalls of the war and ukraine, russian forces sees that police, you a nuclear power plant in southeast, in ukraine, the largest in europe. early in 2022. it since been attacked several times with the u. n's nuclear watchdog, the i a visiting the sites and issuing warnings that too. so how serious of the dangers out? because pond could the fighting nearby lead to a new click faster fee. we'll be talking to mr. grossey the i a director general in a few minutes and i'll panel of guess off of that. but 1st this report for wilson dice aut, the width, ukrainian force is only 40 kilometers away and their weapons well within range. the

head of the u. n's nuclear watchdog visits the chris nuclear power plant. president vladimir putin has accused ukraine of trying to attack the nuclear facility. one of the largest in russia. ukraine hasn't commented raphael grossi warrant of the danger of a serious nuclear incident. we see the plant still operating at the same time, the fact that the blank piece operating at make it even more serious in terms of finding eventual action against it. and when i've done the separating, the temperature is much higher. and if there was the case of an impact or something that could affect it, and there would be serious consequences. grossi said the reactor lacks any special protection. he had seen evidence of a drone strike on the plants, the premises, and repeated his warning that nuclear facilities must not become targets an armed

concert. but rushes for an ministry spokeswoman accuse the i a e, a of not being explicit enough in its officers nations. we see both the assessments and the work of this structure, but each time we want to more objective, i'm clear expression of the position of this structure. not in favor of our country, not in favor of confirming most goes position, but in favor of facts, with one specific goal, ensuring safety, and preventing the development of a scenario along with catastrophic pulse to which the key bridge him is pushing everyone. the russian forces have occupied the separate c a nuclear power plant in ukraine since early in the war. it's since come under attack with the i a e, a confirming a reactor building was among several parts it on april, the 7th this year. a scenario few if any want to see repeated in this less well protected nuclear facility incurs wilson dies or else is 0 for inside story.

mr. glossy is now back from cook, and that i a headquarters in vienna, rafael grossey, director general of the international atomic energy agency. thank you for joining us here on inside story is we've seen, you've just returned from the nuclear pond in russia. what concerns you most? well, what concerns me most is the situation of a nuclear power plant. and again, a very close to an active combat zone. in this case, after the, the recent military at dvd and the incursion of the forces from ukraine into tennessee to the territory of the russian federation. now we have seen as the possibility of a new get power plant within the range of thoughts, unmanned aerial vehicles or artillery. and of course, this is always something that they respect people, the territory of the country or,

or other circumstances. this is always something that concerns us because he tests to do with new safety and security. and this is why we, i personally lead a mission of the, by the, the there which to base the yesterday. the right to general. this is an old design of nuclear plants, as i understand it's very similar to the one shown to bill, which was the scene of that awful nuclear disaster in 1986. my understanding of the technical terms of containment though, the basically doesn't have a hobby roof, is that that? no, that's the problem. just tell us is the, the, what is the scenario if something was to hit it, if i missed all or the yeah, hit the reality. so what would happen? as you write, please say most nuclear power plants have the cool predicted by, by of a metal structure in or a vessel. but then it over on top of it and reinforced

adults, which is a bad to resist even the impact on funding coming at their craft. to give you an example, in this case because of the type of design, a of course the reactor is inside the building, but these buildings and all my building. so what have what happened right, to general if it was hit, would it be like shut about was e feet was heat, there would be on like in a normal nuclear reactor where the sheet on the reactor would most probably never get to the cold of the reactor with the fuel and the nuclear material is in this case, it will directly impact it. you must remember that these type of react, or if you refer back to your memory subtotal is moderated by graphite, so,

combustible. and then we could have potentially i, i wouldn't use sure no bill as a, as a parameter, but in terms of the density of what could happen because he'd would depend on what kind of project tied would be impacting. but in any case, there would be an important radio active and it'd be nice into the boost here. so it really goes digits of a c use as you creation. again, in case there was any back of that nature. so this is why it was important for me to go to evaluate this, this did state of the reactor, the emergency and the bet preparedness and response making these items in place. and then of course, i have the possibility to have the case. there was a, is such, evan try that, you would, which of course we called would not they base have been able to respond to it and

to inform the international community about it. so this was a 1st, but indispensable contact with the situation that, that i had to make. ok, we know that you were shown what the russians said. was drone dead free. they say the russians, the russian foreign ministry, that you should be more explicit and condemning the ukrainians. but how do you know that that really was drug and february from the ukrainians? and do you have any revenues? yes, the use for russian propaganda, you know, to toll i mean the intentions by, by others is not something i would get into motivations or intentions. otherwise, have, i would not be able to do much in the international arena these days. so what's important is what the, what the does on what the says and we, we see things that we can see there. them that can be, can be, we evaluate,

obviously at the time of these events, they refer to a couple of occasions recently. and that's part of the recent media, teddy activities and which they attribute to the other side. of course, we were not present that we were not able to make any evaluation at that time. so we kind of point fingers. what do i have said? and again, and what we say is, what counts is that all these cannot be separated from the events they can base and in the, in the area. so this is why it's important that the i e gets involved and it's important to re yes. as i did yesterday from kursk or earlier at the united nations security council, there should never be a duck on and will get power plant. this is the principal, and as you know, there's a very wiring symmetry to the situation because the cost font,

which is not currently occupied by ukraine is in russia. is that for region nuclear plant? is it the front line in the ukraine, and that is all keep part by russia. however, it all you at the moment about this operation to well, um, uh, i will be visiting somebody's uh next week on hold 40 or so uh the, the talking to president zalesky with whom of course we have a very important agenda referring to separate easier referring to the protection of the, of a nuclear power plants in ukraine. we tried the moment, the lifeline of the country because they are at the moment where they as you know, energy infrastructure of the country is under and stress of these nuclear power plants are providing reliable energy to the economy and to the society. so we are going to be discussing that on other things. okay, i will direct to

a general given the similar give me the symmetry that i've talked about. the fact that there is a, a nuclear power plant on the front line in one country and on the front line and the other does not in any way, give you an opportunity for potentially some diplomacy with both sides. well, i would say the sydney lottie do use of the, the situation. it is attempting to draw this, this kind of pattern. but there's, he patience, as you rightly said, are very different. in one case, we have 30 told ya, the shoes. we have no compassion. we have a situation which is very different from here course where we have a plant which is uh, being controlled and disputed territory of the russian federation, which is which lies close to an advance of uh, military troops from the other side. so if you want the,

the common denominator is the nuclear risk or the risk of a new good actually to, to put it to put did correct the, the promise he is always deployed. and i, this is why, as you know, because we have been talking before, we are the, i use the own, the international agency talking to both of the same time because there is an obvious recognition from both sides of the board tense. these are 2 very important at nuclear countries, new getting the sense of new get energy, cvn, new get energy. of course, russia has been good, representative, great does not. but the countries that rely heavily on the contribution of a nuclear energy to the national respective grades. so of course these makes it for repeated opportunities to talk to persuade, to hopefully improve is things for the better. great to speak to you again. direct

a general draw, see thank you for talking to us. thank you. the, let's discuss all the issues with today's kind of look, guess in vienna robot kelly is a distinguished associate fellow at the still comb, international piece research institute, and the former director of nuclear inspections in iraq full the i a in a storm latest a cobra is the executive director of the vienna center for disarmament, a nonproliferation she specializes in the racial region and international nuclear safeguards. and in washington, dc and the to leave and is the director of the racial program at the quincy institute, a us based sync tank. thank you all 3 of you for joining us, a regional textbook and to nuclear experts. i hope the scientist will correct me if i get anything wrong because i don't claim to know a lot about new, clear science. let's start with you. robot though, you heard the interview with the director general the, the agency,

but you used to work for russia is saying the guy needs to be much more explicit condemning the drones that were fired on this plot. ukraine is saying this is all russian propaganda, and it's not even their objective. does he already have any capability to look at that does drone debris and say who was responsible when i work for the i a to has 0 capability for that they don't have capability for assessing nuclear weapons, for example, theater. so that's not their strong to what i found really depressing and amazing about this conversation is it's all wrong. the, uh, the curse facility is nothing watching mobile and even why can you end up suggest that those 2 are related. you cannot have the accident that was that terminal. it's impossible. why the i here, which is supposed to be the most important new care technical agency on the world is pointing out hysteria and garbage. it is a new me, for example,

the containment building around the rafter that you have in any reactors, some 3rd or stop airplanes. it's there to contain radioactive steam. if there is an accident in the core, if drone hits that building, chances are all that will do was just to destroy itself on the outside of the building. so just to be clear, just to be just to be clear to us a direct take by ms. salo drone on the react to what's in your own view, what, what, what would it, what would that actually, what would it mean? well, we're talking about her one or jewelry strike or a drone strike will probably damage the outside of the building. the core is extremely rugged, it's inside of a strong building does not contain that building, but the continuous building was not would not be there to protect the reactor. it's to keeps theme and radiation from getting out of the building. that's what's missing in the uh, 40 year old soviet design. elaina you all the nuclear ex. but do you agree with

robots view on that? i am. first of all, i want to clarify that i'm not any of quite energy, an engineer or a new plan. is and it's difficult for me to make certain, uh, technical and scientific recommendations regarding that. but the fact that the building does not have a containing reactor and containment for all of the reactor is certainly makes it much more difficult to contain the, the suddenly said there isn't a release. but it also makes it the building and less from texas, from potential impact depending on what kind of missed file or airplane is use. but my understanding is also that

in addition to many of the features that for added to the, to normal um accident. there also additional safety features that put into each reactor it's not on and bob is contained in these buildings or how don't or actress. so if we are i was talking about comparing uh the terms of the accident. i would say it's definitely much, much lower than uh, the case of terminal. having said that, any release of friday soon, any damage to react droids or would be a very serious decent incentive. and it would put uh,

the development of nuclear energy and overall developments around nuclear power into a much more difficult situation. but i, i want to go back to the comments regarding the ability of the i a to make assessment off the drone attack on the remnants. i think that was the fact that rossi pointed himself, that's not their job and it's not the expertise b, i a specialist on odd forensics expert, particularly when it comes to conventional weapons and the fact that they are sometimes expected to provide or point fingers. so make assessment is asking for something that the agency and it's person out on logic quips and not prepared to

do this so. okay, thank you. let me bring frame. well let me bring robert back in because you were critical a moment ago all the all. yea, up mr. grossey, director general grossey was leading this mission. he's been leading so many of the emissions to zappa ratio. is this unusual? is it normal practice for the head of an international agency like this to be leading the field trips? well, we didn't have any field trips to rack and somebody didn't have any field trips to olivia or we had technical people going work those problems. so i think the main thing i'd like to see is a technical person and on an international lawyer speaks for the i a and tries to reassure the public. i think elena just did a nice job of pointing out there are a lot of differences and try to reassure the public the. this is not any chance of being anything like to know. there's 0 chance the curse is going to be another

journal, maybe radiation relations if something goes wrong, more likely in an outside field font but but not there. so when you look at jeffery, yeah, they keep talking about the reactors, but they're huge outdoor pools with no cover on them. filled with thousands of radioactive filaments. that's why we should be putting our attention. okay, let's get the context or amount of tal. it's 3 weeks now since this offensive started. do we have any indication that ukraine actually wants to capture this nuclear plot because they had the elements of surprise, very weak defenses. when they 1st went into the coast region, they could perhaps have captured it right at the beginning. so they wanted to know a possibly it's not really possible to say how far they could guess. i'm sure they want to get as far as they could. um, the question is, i think how determined all of

a to hold this tire tree in cost. and there's been indications from the ukrainian government is that they really see this as a bargaining cancer in eventful piece towards a box. or on the other hand, some military experts have suggested that this rather than an advantage the ukrainians could be a very dangerous distraction from the defense of direct and territory in east to ukraine. i'm afraid that to a degree when our for aging, in, in a corporate is called the focus wall. um and uh, we will have to see how things turn out on the battlefield. but an adult. how things tony on the battlefield. yes, they're making games in the co screeching in russia. but when you look at the situation in ukraine itself and east and ukraine and don't boss, it seems to be going pretty badly, doesn't to well, yes, i mean, this is, this is

a key point of because one might have expected that faced with this surprising and and proceed to mediation, ukrainian in cushion into intercoastal west. and that's the russian government would have thrown everything into costs to push them out again. but in fact they've deployed troops to contain the ukrainians in cost while continuing that offensive in east. and you right to capture the town across and the southern don't pass a blast. so the russians seem to a degree not so concerned about this ukrainian attack. and people i've talked to have express considerable confidence that in the increments of the time is

still on russia. sides and just as one russian security expert said to me, sooner or later the ukrainians will have to leave cost. but we will never leave the dumbass role. but let's move to eastern ukraine and the other nuclear site that we've been looking at for 2 and a half years. is that patricia? you said you're not quite as concerned as many houses are about cost. how concerned are you about the situation? how does that parisha nuclear plot weather has been fighting various points. it's un, under the control of, of the russians. and it's, i believe, a much bigger plot than the coast plot in jeopardy as much pressure plant. most of its been shut down there for months. that doesn't mean it can still have melting incidence or hydrogen incidence. but it's, it's in much better condition now than it was. you have to worry about those outdoor fuel ponds, as i mentioned, because that is where a radioactive material is stored under water. so no cover,

no building at all over. there's no containment buildings. you know nothing. those things are just under water hot doors. then you have to look at the other plants in the ukranian are they are they have 3 other sites where operational reactors are ukrainians are going to be very, very careful not to cause any kind of a radiation incident. at course, for the simple reason that the russians have left their nuclear plants and ukraine alone, enough to now and there's the ukrainians cause a problem as cursed. it gives the russians a green light to take out all of the rest of the electricity production. and um, can you create and then they're going to freeze to death this winter because it be no electricity at all. raphael, losing to that. i know we know from present zalinski that one of the aims of the coolest operation is to strengthen his hand and potential negotiations. do you see any prospect for a start to that being some nuclear diplomacy given we're talking about one plant in

ukraine, one plant in russia. could that be some source of opening here? do you think i'm, i think the group incursion of cranium forces into the russian territory itself probably is in a town of having an opening and discussion though we still don't know exactly what uh um, what is one of the reasons and possible several reasons for this incursion, but i don't think that then you can uh, funds are the key point here. i think it's oral the attempt to see the situation with the war and demonstrate ukrainian ability to fight and actually fight in getting to in even

russian territory. but again, the, we don't know every thing and we don't have enough information about that. okay, that sounds good. i bring you in on this point. do you think that there is any, any, any room for diplomacy on the nuclear issue itself? i attended that summit that took place in switzerland that ukraine had with the international community didn't invite rusher. i just was looking back to the declaration. the very 1st point was about the international community's concern about nuclear installations and the fact they should be. i quote, safe, secured, safeguarded, and environmentally sound. the slow it says, father is being sold more than 2 years now. new direct contacts between the, the premiums and the russians tool, except the very limited area of prisoner exchange. so if you could get a limited dialogue going on nuclear safety and separation cause, well that would be

a very smooth beginning from or off towards because sooner or later that will have to be direct talks. and actually, the ukrainian side has now changed its previous position and said, yes, at some stage that will have to be towards bought the nuclear. we should, could only be a very small beginning opening you count, result all the colossal issues between your training and russian. the western russia food needs indigo c. ations it's, i mean, look, it's is, is obviously much more significant than the so called ping pong diplomacy that began relations between communist china and the us. okay. got us open 6 to us all. thank you very much. thanks you too old august today here on inside story, and it's all leaving elaina. so cova and robert kelly and also to rafael, grow. see the director general. the i a you joined us early a coverage of ukraine and russian continually on out to 0 analysis to on out to 0.

to call me if you have comments about this story or any other we want to hear from you on facebook at facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story on x. you'll find this at a inside story for me, james phase in the whole team here in bo. ha, please keep yourself safe. i'll see you back here. very soon. bye bye. for now, the it was meant to be that you just hear the cameras going. knox creek like, like, like, for the tragic attack, stunned the world. and the us president came in and whispered something into the prisoner's ear. what did he just say to print? for the school children present? the events of september, the 11th defined, the will, they grew up in just a huge moment. these are the stories. 911, faith, witness. oh no. just the era. the

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