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tv   Verified Live  BBC News  November 15, 2023 4:00pm-4:31pm GMT

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to send asylum seekers to rwanda is "unlawful". he's wasted all his time on a gimmick and now he's absolutely nowhere. will he level with the british public and finally admit he's failed to deliver on his promise? when it comes to stopping small boats, rwanda is one part of our plan which has already delivered a reduction in the number of small boats this year by a third. where does this leave rishi sunak�*s key policy? how much pressure is he under? he is expected to hold a press conference this hour. smoke fills gaza's largest hospital as the israeli army carries out a raid there. we'll have the latest.
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welcome to verified live, the uk supreme court has ruled that the government's policy of sending asylum seekers to rwanda is unlawful. in a significant blow to the prime minister, five judges "unanimously ruled" against his flagship policy to stop illegal migration. they said rwanda has "a poor record on human rights" and also that if refugees went to rwanda, there'd be a "a real risk" of them being sent back to the countries they'd originally fled from. rishi sunak said he's now looking at alternative steps, which would mean migrants could still be sent to rwanda. he is under pressure from his own mps, with theirs urging him to ignore the laws. here's our political correspondent, ione wells. today was judgment day. does the government have the right to send some asylum seekers to rwanda? the verdict, no.
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the judges agreed there were substantial grounds to believe there was a real risk that genuine refugees could wrongly be sent back from rwanda to countries they fled from, something called refoulement. the changes needed to eliminate the risk of refoulement may be needed in the future but they have not been shown to be in place now. the home secretary's appeal is therefore dismissed. they also agreed there hadn't been a proper assessment on whether rwanda is safe for asylum seekers. has your plan failed, prime minister? - a big blow for rishi sunak, his flagship policy for stopping small boats crossing the channel found to be illegal again. his reaction... the governement has been working already on a new treaty with rwanda and we will finalise that in light of today's judgment
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and furthermore, if necessary, i am prepared to revisit our domestic legal frameworks. let me assure the house that my commitment to stopping the boats is unwavering. labour are not convinced. the most ridiculous, pathetic spectacle of all, his rwanda scheme, cooked up with his national security threat home secretary, has blown up. he was told over and over again that this would happen, that it wouldn't work, and it was just the latest tory gimmick. but he bet everything on it and now he's totally exposed. the central pillar of his government has crumbled beneath him. does he want to apologise to the country for wasting £140 million of taxpayer cash and wasting his entire time in office? what's plan b? that's a question that will divide conservatives. sacked on monday, former home secretary suella braverman and other tory mps now want the uk to pass a new law
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allowing them to ignore the ones behind thisjudgment. rishi sunak�*s actions now may well determine how theyjudge him. i think ultimately delivering the policy of stopping the boats is a confidence issue of the british people in this government. it is certainly a confidence issue for my voters in me, by extension, therefore, it is a confidence issue for me in the prime minister. home secretary, welcome to the dispatch box. - so, what next? we anticipated this judgment as a possible result and for the last few months have been working on a plan to provide the certainty the court demands. we have been working with rwanda to build capacity and amend agreements with rwanda to make clear that those sent there cannot be sent to another country than the uk. our intention is to uphold our agreement, to upgrade our agreement to a treaty as soon
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as possible. no backing down, the government still wants its rwanda plan to go ahead. how and when, though, are questions no—one has the answer to. ione wells, bbc news. lets get more reaction. joining me is a professor of law. thank you for being here on the programme. what in your view with a key part of the day's judgment from the supreme court? day'sjudgment from the supreme court? ~ , ., , court? the prime minister has announced _ court? the prime minister has announced that _ court? the prime minister has announced that it _ court? the prime minister has announced that it remains - court? the prime minister has - announced that it remains committed to sending people to a safer country. the short answer is that rwanda is not a safe third country. there are three reasons why even a new treaty won't work. firstly, rwanda has a history of acting in convention of mandatory fuel. it
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continued to do this during the negotiations for the rwanda policy and after the execution of it. so thatis and after the execution of it. so that is a simple reason for why you cannot trust the rwandan authorities. the other thing, rwanda has a history of political turmoil. one remembers the genocide were 5000 people were killed. that political violence continues, so much so that thejudgment points are violence continues, so much so that the judgment points are that the has been political killings and assassinations by the rwandan authorities to such an extent that the british police has had to warn them in this country to be careful. indeed, the government has shot at refugees in rwanda, killing at least 12 people. it doesn't stop there because one finds it has next to no understanding of refugee law,
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because although it has an open door policy in relation to other africans from the congo, it has little to no experience of refugees being sent over from experience of refugees being sent overfrom europe. indeed, of the 2022, it had only processed 152 applications. moreover, it is fundamental to any system that ultimately that has to be a right of appeal. it has existed in the law there since 2018. not a single appeal has ever been lodged. it is not working. might adjust out that the liability of the system is also open to question in this way. the majority of refugees coming to this question come from areas of profound conflict, syria, afghanistan, yemen and so on. rwanda has 100% rejection
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rate for those countries. in this country we allow 98% of syrians, 74% of afghans, and 40% of people from kuwait. plainly there simply is no sense of appeal. you kuwait. plainly there simply is no sense of appeal.— kuwait. plainly there simply is no sense of appeal. you list, and it is a lona sense of appeal. you list, and it is a long list — sense of appeal. you list, and it is a long list you _ sense of appeal. you list, and it is a long list you have _ sense of appeal. you list, and it is a long list you have taken - sense of appeal. you list, and it is a long list you have taken us - a long list you have taken us through, of the reasons why the supreme court have come to this view. it was unanimous. we have heard rishi sunak saying that they are going to try to negotiate a new treaty. do you think there is any likelihood at all of a new treaty actually addressing all of those key planks, those key problems you've outlined? ~ , , planks, those key problems you've outlined? ~ , ., ~ outlined? absolutely not. might i 'ust add outlined? absolutely not. might i just add that _ outlined? absolutely not. might i just add that the _ outlined? absolutely not. might i just add that the judgment - outlined? absolutely not. might i just add that the judgment as - outlined? absolutely not. might i just add that the judgment as a i just add that the judgment as a masterclass in the way in which reels off form, starting with international law, treaty
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obligations, domestic law, rules and legislation. it makes it quite clear that even if we were to alter our domestic arrangements, we still remain bound by the convention of torture, by the international civil rights. thejudgment is torture, by the international civil rights. the judgment is carefully drafted. a resounding affirmation of the extent to which the rule of law is maintained by other court. that comes as no surprise because the leading decisions look to the british supreme court in looking at the finest decisions when it comes to sanctuary an asylum status. before you go on to another reason, let me just tell viewers suella braverman, the former home secretary, sacked only 48 was ago, has posted a response. let me go
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through the key dates. she said the judgment is no surprise, it was protected by a number of people. given the current law, there is no reason to criticise the judges. the government must introduce emergency legislation. the bill must block off echr and other roots of legal challenge. this will give parliament a clear choice, control legal migration or explain to the people why they should accept ever greater numbers of illegal people settling here. in terms of the approach, the former home secretary has just laid out, the likelihood of that being effective? ., ., ,., out, the likelihood of that being effective? ., ., , , effective? non-whatsoever, because this is not a — effective? non-whatsoever, because this is not a case _ effective? non-whatsoever, because this is not a case of— effective? non-whatsoever, because this is not a case of tinkering - effective? non-whatsoever, because this is not a case of tinkering with . this is not a case of tinkering with an existing agreement, where you can rush back the rwandans and say we need to perfect the original agreement in place. there are
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systemic, fundamental structural problems with the way in which the rwandans do asylum law. there's no understanding of it, they concede on the basis that a person must come with documents. you must apply for asylum on arrival. they don't come on that basis. another thing which hasn't been mentioned, there had been a previous agreement between rwanda and israel. israel dealt with at refugees by sending them, very similar arrangements, and it made it clear there were human rights obligations and yet they did not observe those obligations. no right of residence was given.— of residence was given. professor, i've not of residence was given. professor, i've got to — of residence was given. professor, i've got to leave _ of residence was given. professor, i've got to leave it. _ of residence was given. professor, i've got to leave it. thank - of residence was given. professor, i've got to leave it. thank you - of residence was given. professor, i've got to leave it. thank you for. i've got to leave it. thank you for your time. i've got to leave it. thank you for yourtime. let i've got to leave it. thank you for your time. let me return to what some other braverman has just posted, the former home secretary. i
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will put some of those posts onto the screen. as i was reading out, saying it was no surprise, the judgment. one more post i didn't read out. let's go straight back to our
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political correspondent, she's there at westminster with more reaction. suella bravermanjoining at westminster with more reaction. suella braverman joining those calls, and we headed nro sara go from some of those mps you were talking to. —— we heard it and our ago. the implications politically are after thejudgment. ago. the implications politically are after the judgment. this are after the “udgment. this intervention _ are after the judgment. this intervention from _ are after the judgment. ti 3 intervention from suella braverman was expected. we had her scaling resignation letter only yesterday in which she accused a prior minister of not having a plan b. just to unpick what she said. she is talking about the government to introduce legislation, emergency legislation, which would bypass the european convention on human rights and the human right act, which enshrines the convention into uk law, in order to get this policy three. couple of points, the first is she's not the
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first mp to suggest it. this issue about whether the uk should signed up about whether the uk should signed up as a divisive one. it was always expected thisjudgment up as a divisive one. it was always expected this judgment from the supreme court would fuel that the bait. it is worth saying in the supreme court's judgment read bait. it is worth saying in the supreme court'sjudgment read out, they made clear it wasn'tjust the european convention on human rights that was proving an obstacle to the rwanda plan. but you are right, now other mps echoing that plan. i was talking to a couple earlier, to consider backbenchers who want to see similar action from the government regarding legislation, to bypass the international commitments to get this rwanda plan through. the judgment was worse than we feared. the previous court had acknowledged the legality of the rwanda policy. it makes a sweeping range of objections. notjust the european
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convention on human rights, the foundation of the ruling, but a whole other list of obligations, including united nations rulings. there is an immediate challenge of how we maintain and fulfil our promise and stop the boats by deterring people through this policy. thisjudgment deterring people through this policy. this judgment opens up a bigger set of questions about our relationships with international treaties. ., ., treaties. you heard the prime minister's _ treaties. you heard the prime minister's response, - treaties. you heard the prime minister's response, who - treaties. you heard the prime minister's response, who said treaties. you heard the prime - minister's response, who said their plan is to try and form a treaty with rwanda to satisfy the court. they mention looking at domestic legislation or international leisure ships. there was no commitment. are you satisfied with that response. what do you want to see from rishi sunak? we what do you want to see from rishi sunak? ~ ., , ., , , ., sunak? we are pleased they are sa in: it sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is _ sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is the _ sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is the plan _ sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is the plan to _ sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is the plan to stop - sunak? we are pleased they are saying it is the plan to stop the l saying it is the plan to stop the boats _ saying it is the plan to stop the boats and — saying it is the plan to stop the boats and proceed with the rwanda plan _ boats and proceed with the rwanda plan it _ boats and proceed with the rwanda plan. it may be necessary. one of the judgments was there was no
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guarantee rwanda wouldn't return immigrants to the place of origin. we proudly do need emergency legislation to get over this thicket of international implications. the commons — of international implications. the commons will start ready to pass it, but there _ commons will start ready to pass it, but there are lots of questions about— but there are lots of questions about getting it through the law. the government has known this has been _ the government has known this has been coming. we hope they have a plan b _ been coming. we hope they have a plan b. we— been coming. we hope they have a plan b. ~ ., ., ., ., plan b. we look forward to hearing it. when plan b. we look forward to hearing it- when you _ plan b. we look forward to hearing it. when you talk— plan b. we look forward to hearing it. when you talk about _ plan b. we look forward to hearingj it. when you talk about emergency legislation, are you talking about removing the uk from it obligations under things like the european convention of human rights, and other parts like obligations on the rights of refugees?— other parts like obligations on the rights of refugees? when the illegal act was going _ rights of refugees? when the illegal act was going through _ rights of refugees? when the illegal act was going through parliament i rights of refugees? when the illegal act was going through parliament in | act was going through parliament in the last session, we tabled amendments which would allow the plant to go ahead, notwithstanding the obligations of what lawyers may want to invoke. we are a fair and legal country, governed by law. we
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don't need the membership of international arrangements in order to makers goes a decent country. our common law tradition, our long—standing commitment to personal freedom is sufficient to ensure our government behaves well and we do not breach people's human rights. we don't need is international arrangements to be a decent country. there is a big challenge of how we communicate the culture we have is a fair and decent one. i object to the suggestion we only behave well because of the membership of these international arrangements. we need a commitment in law, and we want to hear it laterfrom the a commitment in law, and we want to hear it later from the government, that we will pass emergency legislation to assist the laws, democratically accountable to the british people. that is the key phrase, notwithstanding legal obligations or treaties made in the past. the law of the land in the uk will stand. . , ., , .,
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will stand. there are people who would be quite _ will stand. there are people who would be quite aghast _ will stand. there are people who would be quite aghast at - will stand. there are people who would be quite aghast at the - would be quite aghast at the principle of withdrawing from some of those european conventions on human rights and the protection of refugees. what would you say to them questio the convention of human rights had some clear principles when it was brought in, to protect the totalitarian nightmare. that convention _ the totalitarian nightmare. that convention has _ the totalitarian nightmare. that convention has evolved from its original— convention has evolved from its original principle, it's been interpreted over the years by lawyers _ interpreted over the years by lawyers. it has lost touch with its original— lawyers. it has lost touch with its original principles. the idea leaving _ original principles. the idea leaving the echr would mean we no longer— leaving the echr would mean we no longer had _ leaving the echr would mean we no longer had a commitment to human rights _ longer had a commitment to human rights is _ longer had a commitment to human rights is not — longer had a commitment to human rights is not true. we can talk about— rights is not true. we can talk about the _ rights is not true. we can talk about the technicalities, this is hollamon's roll, but we need to take stock— hollamon's roll, but we need to take stock of— hollamon's roll, but we need to take stock of the — hollamon's roll, but we need to take stock of the big picture. who runs this country, who is responsible for the borders? the judgment today does cast out— the borders? the judgment today does cast out whether it is the uk parliament. following the vote in 2016 and — parliament. following the vote in 2016 and 2019 we need to make sure
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parliament— 2016 and 2019 we need to make sure parliament has sovereignty, and that is the _ parliament has sovereignty, and that is the government'sjob. we parliament has sovereignty, and that is the government's job.— is the government's 'ob. we did hear from rishi sunak, _ is the government's job. we did hear from rishi sunak, who _ is the government's job. we did hear from rishi sunak, who said - is the government's job. we did hear from rishi sunak, who said if - is the government's job. we did hear from rishi sunak, who said if this - from rishi sunak, who said if this plan is frustrated he would change laws and revisit international leisure ships. there was no further commitment on what it means. the sense you get from the government is they are not at this stage looking at going down the path of withdrawing from the european convention on human rights. you hear the pressure from some in the conserver party who want the prime minister to consider something along those lines, not least well braverman. there will be focused on the press conference which will happen in about half—an—hour. alex, thank you. around the world and across the uk, you're watching bbc news. let's look at some other stories making news. the annual rate of inflation has fallen to its lowest level in two years. official figures show price rises eased to 4.6% in the year to october — a fall largely attributed
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to lower energy prices. the government had pledged to halve inflation by the end of the year, from more than 10% at the end of 2022. a city councillor has said a tower block in bristol that was evacuated over safety concerns, was not built according to plans. more than 400 residents were forced to leave their homes on tuesday, with the council declaring a major incident. building surveys showed barton house would not be safe in the event of a fire. the chelsea women's team boss emma hayes has been named the new head coach of the usa national team. she'll begin her new role at the end of the season. hayes has won 13 major trophies since joining the wsl in 2012. she'll become the highest paid women's football coach in the world, when she leaves chelsea in may. you're live with bbc news. israeli troops have raided the biggest hospital in gaza in what they've described, as "a precise and targeted" military
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operation against hamas. the us has said they did not give the 0k the us has said they did not give the ok for that israeli raid on the hospital. that has just come from the white house. israel says the al—shifa hospital compound, conceals an underground command centre used by hamas — a claim doctors there deny. the united nations security council is due to vote later today on a draughtresolution that calls for urgent and extended humanitarian pauses and corridors throughout the gaza strip to enable access for aid. our middle east correspondent yolande knell reports from jerusalem. amid smoke, a glimpse of conditions inside the al—shifa hospital. with power cuts due to the lack of fuel, patients are being moved. we can't verify when this footage, which comes from gaza's hamas—run health ministry, was filmed. but overnight, israel began what it said was a precise and targeted operation at gaza's biggest hospital. a witness described six tanks and dozens of commandos moving in here.
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they told the hospital they are planning to get in the building one by one and they will be checking everywhere. again it is a scary situation. it is continuous shooting. it is continuous shooting. since taking control here, israeli forces say they've brought in baby food and medical supplies. they're searching the hospital, where they believe there's an underground tunnel network used as a hamas command centre. hamas and medics deny that. the military inisists there's been no friction with hospital staff. israel is at war with hamas, not with the civilians in gaza. the idf forces include medical teams and arabic speakers who have undergone specified training to prepare for this complex and sensitive environment.
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and arriving from egypt today for the first time since the war started, a delivery of diesel. this after the un said yesterday it had to stop its aid distribution in gaza due to the lack of fuel. but still supplies cannot enter the hospitals, to run gaza's power plant or water—pumping stations. for now, rain — which had begun falling heavily — is a much—needed water source. but it's also a grim reminder of how, with the onset of winter, humanitarian conditions here look set to worsen. so much focus on the hospital. bbc verify has been looking at what we know about the scale of the israeli operation on al—shifa hospital — here's our special correspondent caroline hawley. al—shifa is the main hospital in the
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gaza strip, huge complex web departments. its emergency departments. its emergency department had onlyjust been upgraded with the red cross involved in the work saying it would support dedicated health workers to save lives for years to come. but al—shifa is fast becoming a symbol of this war were bullet suffering, claims and counter games and a microcosm of how it's been waged. bbc verify has been looking at satellite imagery showing how israeli forces have been closing in on the hospital. this is from saturday the 11th. you can see them sex and the metres away. then this is from yesterday —— 600 metres away. up and down the israeli troops. only 300 metres away. israel say it's a targeted operation to search for hamas weapons. it claims there is a hamas command centre underneath. hamas has denied it. last night the us said it had at own
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intelligence hamas was using al—shifa for a command and control nodes, which it says is a war crime. that's have a look at animation released by the israeli army. they say there are tunnels below the complex and rooms, and one here with carpet, chairs and hamas flag. an israeli official said troops moved in overnight and had weapons and terror infrastructure, but they've not shown any evidence of tunnels. what the israeli army has release is these images of troops inside al—shifa. they say they are providing medical supplies, although the hospitals says it doesn't need incubators but fuels to run the ones it has. these are the distressing images emerging of babies whose incubators are no longer working. we've no information on how they are today. these photographs taken last
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week debate claims of conditions at the hospital. our teams have been looking for any images from the hospital today, looking for any images from the hospitaltoday, but looking for any images from the hospital today, but almost nothing seems to be coming out, possibly because of poor connectivity. the world health organization says it has lost touch again with hospital staff and it is extremely worried for their safety and for the safety of all the hospital's patients. you're watching bbc news. hello. for some of us, today has brought yet more rain, but for others, a bit of a break in the action. some clear skies. we've seen a bit of sunshine in the north of scotland. also some sunny skies further south across the uk. this lump of cloud will change that with some outbreaks of rain pushing into southern areas for tomorrow, including in west sussex, where today brought largely sunny skies overhead, some rain to take us into the first part of the evening across central and southern parts of scotland and into northern england and cloud gathering across the south west of england and the channel islands
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ahead of our next rain bearing weather system. it will start to turn wet here as we head through the evening. and tonight, further north, a mix of patchy cloud and clear spells. it is going to get quite cold for some, particularly in sheltered spots in northern scotland, maybe down to around minus four celsius. could be some fog patches here as well to start tomorrow morning. but through tomorrow, this quite deep area of low pressure is going to pass just to the south of the uk. the potential for some strong and gusty winds, particularly around coasts of south west england and the channel islands, gusts of 50 miles per hour or more. but for most of us, i think the rain will be of more concern if you do have travel plans across southern england, parts of wales, the midlands through the morning does look very soggy indeed and actually that rain will linger for a good part of the day. few showers across parts of north east england and eastern scotland. otherwise, though, here, some dry weather and some sunshine. this frontal system will bring some rain into northern ireland as we head through the afternoon.
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and it is going to be a decidedly chilly feeling day. temperatures for most of us between six and ten degrees. now, that area of low pressure and this frontal system will tend to clear as we move into friday, high pressure building for a time. there could be some fog patches around on friday morning, particularly across northern england, northern ireland and scotland. some of that fog could be quite slow to clear. but then we're looking at a window of drier weather, some spells of sunshine, chilly, where any fog lingers, but starting to turn a little bit milder down towards the south west. but then we head into the weekend. a low pressure takes charge of our weather. once again, we'll see outbreaks of rain pushing eastwards into the first part of saturday. and behind that, frequent showers or longer spells of rain to take us through into the second half of the weekend. it will often be windy, but it is going to feel a bit milder.
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this is bbc news. the headlines. the uk supreme court rules the government's flagship plan to send asylum seekers to rwanda is �*unlawful�*. rishi sunak says the government will look to sign an improved deal with rwanda. we'll be live in downing street as he holds a press conference. the united nations humanitarian chief has said what he called the carnage in gaza must not be allowed to continue. martin griffiths said the world
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was watching new levels of horror every day, including hospitals underfire

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