was a limit to what could be there was a limit to what could be done to contain the spread and the reason there was a limit was that lockdown measures or analogies measures were unprecedented in their application in the uk, and the public, as i mentioned would not enjoy them for long. the argument that the time was such measures may well be required, but we have to be careful not to introduce them too early because that will only mean that they will have to be lifted and that they will have to be lifted and that will lead to a second wave. i’m that will lead to a second wave. i'm sor to that will lead to a second wave. i'm sorry to interrupt. going back to the reference to the chief medical officer's_ the reference to the chief medical officer's advice to cobra, i can't remember, whether that passage was put to— remember, whether that passage was put to sir—

remember, whether that passage was put to sir chris and whether he accepted — put to sir chris and whether he accepted it was a fair reflection because — accepted it was a fair reflection because it seemed to me that he appeared — because it seemed to me that he appeared to be advising against any measures. — appeared to be advising against any measures, including lockdown. the aeneral measures, including lockdown. tue: general proposition was measures, including lockdown. ti9: general proposition was put to measures, including lockdown. ti9 general proposition was put to him, but not that sentence, so my lady is quite right, there is a mission issue as to where is your measurement measures or the lockdown measure. it measurement measures or the lockdown measure. :, , , :, :, measure. it meant things short of lockdown like _ measure. it meant things short of lockdown like social _ measure. it meant things short of lockdown like social distancing, i lockdown like social distancing, yes _ lockdown like social distancing, es. �* :, lockdown like social distancing, es. :, :, :, yes. i'm not in a position to give evidence and — yes. i'm not in a position to give evidence and you _ yes. i'm not in a position to give evidence and you have - yes. i'm not in a position to give evidence and you have received| yes. i'm not in a position to give| evidence and you have received a fair amount of material already as to what the general state of play was about the understanding of what measures might in due course be imposed. i measures might in due course be im osed. ~ measures might in due course be imosed. ~ ., measures might in due course be imosed. ~ :, , , , measures might in due course be imosed. «a, , , , :, imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation _ imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation to _ imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation to this _ imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation to this is _ imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation to this is that - imposed. i think a sensible place to land in relation to this is that no - land in relation to this is that no part of government was saying these are the lists of measures which you need to be considering. there was a

general sense of be careful. it is “ust that general sense of be careful. it is just that mr— general sense of be careful. it is just that mr gove _ general sense of be careful. it is just that mr gove has said that the public— just that mr gove has said that the public might get tired of them. things— public might get tired of them. things like washing hands, that has no downside. can you remember, mr gove, _ no downside. can you remember, mr gove, did _ no downside. can you remember, mr gove, did the — no downside. can you remember, mr gove, did the cmo cover a broad spectrum — gove, did the cmo cover a broad spectrum of measures or was it measures— spectrum of measures or was it measures draconian as lockdown? | measures draconian as lockdown? i think measures draconian as lockdown? think he measures draconian as lockdown? i think he was preparing us for the possibility that there might be draconian measures, hence the reference to hong kong and singapore, but at that time the raw advice was to wash i's hands. to jump advice was to wash i's hands. to jump ahead slightly, it may not be helpful, i believe the cabinet met the following tuesday on the 10th of march, and in the cabinet minutes at point is recorded as having been made, i believe this is a reference to a question or a point that i asked. i by that stage was concerned

that the measures we were taking were not sufficient, that the hand washing advice well obviously valuable in itself was not enough. i think the cabinet minister caught my saying that we needed to look at what other countries were doing and we needed to be clearer that there was a potential divergence of scientific opinion that needed to be taken account of. i wanted to balance both respect for the cmo and csa, distinguished scientist i am not, but with a desire to say we do need to recognise that the course that we are on needs to be altered. and of course, advice is advice, the ultimate decision makers were cobra and above that ministers, and about

then the prime minister. this is a question prefaced in milady plasma question prefaced in milady plasma question to you, there was a general understanding that there were measures available. in past pandemic there has been the closure of schools, handwashing, quarantines which have been contemplated and imposed in the past, self isolation of households, the very measures which did come to be imposed at a later stage. therejust which did come to be imposed at a later stage. there just doesn't appear to be later stage. there just doesn't appearto be any later stage. there just doesn't appear to be any debates at all about the nature of those measures, whether it was lockdown or any of these other well understood measures. do you agree? idiot these other well understood measures. do you agree? not that weak, but measures. do you agree? not that weak. but the — measures. do you agree? not that weak, but the next. _ measures. do you agree? not that weak, but the next. you _ measures. do you agree? not that weak, but the next. you did - measures. do you agree? not that weak, but the next. you did have i measures. do you agree? not that| weak, but the next. you did have a curowin weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, _ weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, as _ weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, as you _ weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, as you said - weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, as you said in - weak, but the next. you did have a growing concern, as you said in a l growing concern, as you said in a statement, about whether or not tougher measures were required, and that goes to the same points. 0n the 10th of march you e—mailed mr hancock and mr cummings and g

detailed a list of questions that you required answers to. just following up from cobra yesterday, i think the team are doing a great job, but i want to follow up on some of what was being discussed yesterday. new race and number of very good questions. you ask about resilience... we are going to bring you some breaking news. a man has admitted killing three people who died in separate attacks earlier in nottingham this year. two students and school terror cake —— school caretaker died after being stabbed on the 13thjune. the man denied murder but admitted three counts of manslaughter on the basis of diminished responsibility. live now

to our midlands correspondence. take as to what happened in court today. this has been a significant morning at nottingham crown court. around an hour or so ago, the journalist, police and also some of the family members of the victims were all going into the courtroom. a few minutes later as proceedings began, valdo calocane came into the dock and at that point we learnt of the significance of what was happening. valdo calocane responded to each of the six counts with which he is charged, so he is charged of three counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder. 0n those three counts of murder he pleaded not guilty and they were of the murders of barnaby webber, grace

o'malley—kuma, the two students at the university of nottingham, and also ian coates. he also at that point said that he was pleading guilty to manslaughter. that is not the charge that he has been charged with. he also went on to plead guilty to three counts of attempted murder. at that point we heard more from his defence barrister and from prosecution. there is some way still to go in terms of finding out what comes next in this process. there are reports that are still due to come to courts which were likely to hereabouts in january and at the moment there is still a trial date set. the prosecution barrister said that he would need to go away and decide whether or not those pleased to manslaughter will be admitted,

will be accepted by the prosecution, and at that point we will see what the next step is in this process. this morning there has been a significant development. valdo calocane pleading not guilty to three counts of attempted murder and pleading guilty... pleading not guilty to three counts of murder and pleading guilty to three counts of attempted murder and also pleading guilty to manslaughter on each of those three first charges. this is a process which has taken quite some time. it was five months ago injune when this incident occurred on the 13th ofjune when there were three people who were killed, grace o'malley—kuma and barnaby webber, both 19—year—olds, and coates, 65—year—old caretaker at a local school in nottingham. there are also incidents involving three people who

were injured and the results of that with accounts we heard about today. three counts of murder to which adam mendes has pleaded not guilty. three counts of attempted murder to which he has pleaded guilty. the key point is that he pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter. he has not been charged with those. he has pleaded guilty to those on the grounds of diminished responsibility. the families were here today to witness this hearing. we saw the sons of ian coates, and i saw the parents of grace o'malley—kuma and also the father of barnaby webber who was listening in via video link. it has been a significant air developments here at nottingham crown court, from an incident which took up a lot of people in the city when it took place in june people in the city when it took place injune last people in the city when it took place in june last year. people in the city when it took place injune last year. we saw those incredibly emotional vigils that took place on the days

following. we wait to hear what the next step will be and we will likely hear about that in january next year when the next court hearing date is set. at the moment the case is still listed to go to trial. this set. at the moment the case is still listed to go to trial.— listed to go to trial. this was a shockin: listed to go to trial. this was a shocking incident _ listed to go to trial. this was a shocking incident that - listed to go to trial. this was a i shocking incident that happened listed to go to trial. this was a - shocking incident that happened in the middle of the night on the night injune. it led to a huge amount of repercussions in the student community who will break —— about to break up for the summer holidays. that's right, it was an incident which affected a great number of people in the city. it was in the early hours of the morning. grace o'malley—kuma and barnaby webber had been on a night out and were coming back on when they were killed. ian coates we understand was on his way to work as a caretaker at a school in nottingham when he was killed. those incidents because such are ripple of shock and grief across the city the following day. there was a vigil held at the university of

nottingham where the students were attending. i was sad that vigil and rememberfeeling the attending. i was sad that vigil and remember feeling the enormous amount of grief and sadness and shock that was being felt across the student community. there are two universities here, a lot of young people and it was the time of year when exams are coming to an end, a lot of the students were enjoying themselves, partying, perhaps in preparation for going home for the summer. that incident caused a huge amount of grief, amount of shock in the city. after that vigil at the university there were thousands of people in the city centre hearing from the families of the victims. at the vigil we heard from parents of the vigil we heard from parents of the two students and the sons of ian coates. some of those people were here today for this hearing. at the time there was a great deal of concern about the geography and the way that these attacks had unfolded. there were incidents just outside

the city centre. there was an incident in magdala roads were ian coates had been killed, and then there were also attacks in the centre of the city. there was a great deal of confusion in those first few hours as we were learning more and more about what happens and the arrests were made, the charges came and today has been a significant day in terms of this process of finding out what happens on that day on the 13th ofjune here in nottingham. thank you. just a reminder of the breaking news, a man has admitted killing three people who died in separate attacks in nottingham, there was students barnaby webber, grace o'malley—kuma, both 19, and school caretaker ian coates, he was 65. valdo calocane admitted three counts of manslaughter on the basis of diminished responsibility. lest i take you back to the covid

inquiry where michael gove is continuing to give evidence. you are under no illusions about the seriousness of the government because my position. you were concerned that were not more stringent steps to be taken and with the government not to act more speedily people would die. yes. and in particular. — speedily people would die. yes. and in particular, the _ speedily people would die. yes. and in particular, the reference - speedily people would die. yes. and in particular, the reference to - speedily people would die. yes. and in particular, the reference to that l in particular, the reference to that article, the article had been sent to me by friends who worked outside... to me by friends who worked outside- - -— to me by friends who worked outside... :, :, ., :, outside... you mentioned that our data ou outside... you mentioned that our data you have _ outside... you mentioned that our data you have been _ outside... you mentioned that our data you have been provided - data you have been provided information from outside government. was this material that france had sent you in relation to a possible response to the coronavirus crisis or related to steps that the government that they believe the

government that they believe the government should be taken? the article was government should be taken? ti9 article was intended to act as a wake—up call to governments across the west. it wasn't specific to the uk, but the arguments that he made about coronavirus weighed with me. i had read other material beforehand that had provoked concern, but they seem to me the best, clearest and most urgent expression of the need to acts of anything that i had read and i wanted to make sure that it was shared across government so that people could see, essentially, the reasoning that had reinforced my conviction that we needed to act. your friends and your colleagues were _ your friends and your colleagues were sending you material imploring you to _ were sending you material imploring you to act _ were sending you material imploring you to act. they were doing so on the basis — you to act. they were doing so on the basis of— you to act. they were doing so on the basis of information which was available _ the basis of information which was available to them and no doubt in large _ available to them and no doubt in large part— available to them and no doubt in large part publicly available, is

that correct?— large part publicly available, is that correct? , :, , ., , that correct? yes and i deliberately sou . ht that correct? yes and i deliberately sought information _ that correct? yes and i deliberately sought information out _ that correct? yes and i deliberately sought information out from - that correct? yes and i deliberately | sought information out from friends outside government, whose opinion i trust it because i wanted to make sure that i had alternative sources of information to test the views that were being expressed by government colleagues and others. evidence has been given to the inquiry— evidence has been given to the inquiry to— evidence has been given to the inquiry to the effect that there was over the _ inquiry to the effect that there was over the weekend of saturday the 14th and — over the weekend of saturday the 14th and 15th of march, a change in strategy _ 14th and 15th of march, a change in strategy. regardless of whether it was a _ strategy. regardless of whether it was a real— strategy. regardless of whether it was a real change in strategy or whether— was a real change in strategy or whether it — was a real change in strategy or whether it was a scaling up of an existing — whether it was a scaling up of an existing strategy, and whether or not there — existing strategy, and whether or not there is a distinct conceptual difference — not there is a distinct conceptual difference between mitigating the impact _ difference between mitigating the impact of a virus and suppressing it, impact of a virus and suppressing it. what— impact of a virus and suppressing it. what in— impact of a virus and suppressing it, what in your view was the driver for that— it, what in your view was the driver for that change in approach, that

dawning — for that change in approach, that dawning realisation over that weekend? was it the