reluctant to make waves that they so reluctant to make waves that they never express their opinion, they never express their opinion, they never challenged, and they never doubted. it was much more important than people who are willing to doubt themselves and each other, and i think that that was creatively useful, rather than the reverse. some of these senior advisers didn't just lack deference, to use your word, mrjohnson. they doubted you and they doubted your ability and your competence, as you now know from having seen the material. could we have, please, 273901, page 188?

that is from the 19th of september. page 229 will demay. there is a reference to leadership position. would you like me to...? i am reference to leadership position. would you like me to. . . ? i am “ust auoin to would you like me to. . . ? i am “ust going to commit i would you like me to. . . ? i am “ust going to commit his i would you like me to. . . ? i am “ust going to commit his right i would you like me to. . . ? i am “ust going to commit his right and h would you like me to. . . ? i am just l going to commit his right and proper and fair that you are asked to give your response to some of the material which has been produced at this inquiry. page 245. the prime minister begins to argue for letting it all rip, they have had a good innings. and there is a reference there to lack of leadership, the last line. this all feels like a complete lack of leadership. let me put the question.

whether or not... the significant number of advisers correctly stated the position, whether or not this was genuine, weather and not there were significant failings in your own annual government's would you accept that it is extraordinary that the government's chief scientific adviser, its chief advisor, its cabinet secretaries, is deputy cabinet secretary, should all be commenting on these terms about competence and about performance and about you? ida. competence and about performance and about ou? ., ~' competence and about performance and about ou? ., ~ , , ., , about you? no, i think this is holy to be exnected. — about you? no, i think this is holy to be expected, and _ about you? no, i think this is holy to be expected, and this - about you? no, i think this is holy to be expected, and this is - about you? no, i think this is holy to be expected, and this is a - about you? no, i think this is holy. to be expected, and this is a period in which... where the country is going to resurgence of the virus, you are looking at october, and

patrick, the csa, talks about inconsistency. we have just patrick, the csa, talks about inconsistency. we havejust got patrick, the csa, talks about inconsistency. we have just got to face the reality, i have to face the realities as prime minister that the virus seems to be refusing to be suppressed by the measures we have used so far, we will need different measures, and we have come out of lockdown, we are going into the tiering system, so of course we are changing. but so did the collective understanding of the science. if you look back at what happened during covid, we had radically different views over the period, over the efficacy of masks, over whether

asymptomatic transmission to take place. we had a totally different view within months about whether ventilators would be needed. i was originally told we needed 25% or patients, that turned out not to be too. on this particular issue you have got the scientists colin for us to go early and go hard, i it takes us back to your initial line of questioning, when early on they had been saying expressly that if you go hard to soon then you have two problems, behaviouralfatigue and problems, behavioural fatigue and bounce problems, behaviouralfatigue and bounce back. the problem i was facing, it was an appalling problem, in october was that we didn't have therapeutic or we didn't have, we had some but we didn't have a vaccine, we didn't have a way out, a

medical solution, we were being forced to use mpis. at this particular moment, and show we will come to the toba— november lockdowns, my anxiety was —— 0ctober. we would have to do the same thing over and over again. i think what those notebooks reflect an what of those comments reflect is the deep anxiety of a group of people doing their level best, who cannot see any easy solutions, and are naturally self—critical of others —— self—critical and critical of others. it others -- self-critical and critical of others. , others -- self-critical and critical of others-— of others. it is obviously things were said _ of others. it is obviously things were said at — of others. it is obviously things were said at the _ of others. it is obviously things were said at the time, - of others. it is obviously things were said at the time, you - of others. it is obviously things were said at the time, you say| of others. it is obviously things i were said at the time, you say not to use, although i have put to a whatsapp which were sent directly to you. there are always the others. a, you. there are always the others. a

whatsapp that claims to have said something directly to me. the whatsapp _ something directly to me. the whatsapp has _ something directly to me. tue: whatsapp has been something directly to me. tte: whatsapp has been taken something directly to me. tt2 whatsapp has been taken from the material which you have provided and from the phones from other people who were interlocutors. let from the phones from other people who were interlocutors.— who were interlocutors. let me correct you. — who were interlocutors. let me correct you, that _ who were interlocutors. let me correct you, that was _ who were interlocutors. let me correct you, that was a - who were interlocutors. let me i correct you, that was a whatsapp cabinet 60 saying he had told me directly something, i didn't see a whatsapp directly to me. mark said well on the 2nd _ whatsapp directly to me. mark said well on the 2nd of _ whatsapp directly to me. mark said well on the 2nd ofjuly _ whatsapp directly to me. mark said well on the 2nd ofjuly sent - whatsapp directly to me. mark said well on the 2nd ofjuly sent a - well on the 2nd ofjuly sent a whatsapp to you to say lots of top drawer people had refused to come because of the reputation of your operation, which was toxic. whether this material indicates a significant failing at the heart of government and in values of competence, they undoubtedly —— failures of competence, these opinions were expressed and you no doubt except you are responsible for that state of affairs, you must have reflected long and hard both whilst

in office in your dealings with mr cummings and afterwards, and what lessons can be learned from the way in which power is exercised and the way in which government performs at the highest level. have you reflected upon whether or not this system by which you receive clinical advice needs to be reformed, have you reflected on the power of that or on the competence of the ministers whose advice you accepted? with hindsight and there are also some things you can do differently, at the time i decided it was best to have an atmosphere of challenge with some strong characters giving me advice. i valued that advice. itraiith advice. i valued that advice. with hindsi . ht, advice. i valued that advice. with hindsight. you — advice. i valued that advice. with hindsight, you can _ advice. i valued that advice. with hindsight, you can now— advice. i valued that advice. ti hindsight, you can now what advice. i valued that advice. t't hindsight, you can now what was going on. you have had this material

for some time, have you reflected on whether or not the inquiry could, if my lady sees fit, make recommendations about way in which characters such as mr cummings, about whom some actually strong views have been expressed, should be in a position he was, views on whether or not the prime minister had access to the correct and proper forms of advice? are these not issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly _ issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly l — issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly i did _ issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly i did have - issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly i did have access i issues have thought about? yes but overwhelmingly i did have access to the correct and proper forms of advice. if you ask upon whom i relied for that advice, it was the cmo and the csa together with the experts, the officials in my private office. he experts, the officials in my private office. .,, _, . experts, the officials in my private office. .., . ,, office. he lost confidence in your cabinet secretary _ office. he lost confidence in your cabinet secretary in _ office. he lost confidence in your cabinet secretary in may - office. he lost confidence in your cabinet secretary in may 2020, l office. he lost confidence in your i cabinet secretary in may 2020, did you not? he asked to step aside. did you not? he asked to step aside. did you lose confidence in your cabinet

secretary in may 2020? did you lose confidence in your chief adviser whom you described is engaging in an orgy of narcissism? he whom you described is engaging in an orgy of narcissism?— orgy of narcissism? he also stepped aside. did orgy of narcissism? he also stepped aside- did you _ orgy of narcissism? he also stepped aside. did you lose _ orgy of narcissism? he also stepped aside. did you lose confidence - orgy of narcissism? he also stepped aside. did you lose confidence in - aside. did you lose confidence in those senior— aside. did you lose confidence in those senior advisers _ aside. did you lose confidence in those senior advisers and - those senior advisers and effectively dispose of them both? well, they both stepped aside from government but it was very difficult, very challenging period. people were getting, as you can see, from the whatsapps, they were getting very frazzled. because they were frustrated, covid kept coming at us in wave after wave. it was very hard to fight it. people were doing their level best. when people are critical of the guy at the top

or of each other, that is a reflection of the difficulty of the circumstances. when it became easier in the spring and after my doing vaccine roll—out, the tone changed but it was a reflection of the agony that the country was going to add that the country was going to add that the country was going to add that the government was going to. t that the government was going to. i am about to turn to a separate topic. i am about to turn to a separate toic. , ., am about to turn to a separate toic. , . ., :: topic. i shall return at 20 past. all right- _ topic. i shall return at 20 past. all right- -- — topic. i shall return at 20 past. all right. -- all— topic. i shall return at 20 past. all right. -- all rise. _ that is a break in the first part of the inquiry, some interesting bits in what we had, just over an hour also of evidence are far. what a

range of topics we have covered. the first stark moment was an apology from borisjohnson, he certainly got that within minutes of his evidence, wanting to say sorry to the public, from many of the families who have lost loved ones, many of whom were in the room, think we can hear a clip of that now. say, by your leave, that i understand the feelings of these victims and theirfamilies and i am deeply sorry for the pain and the loss and the suffering of those victims, and their families. and... grateful, though i am, to the hundreds and thousands of health care workers, and many other public servants, people in all walks of life, to protect our country, throughout a dreadful pandemic.

we have been told that personals and was keen to get in that apology. i think very much wanting to use today as an opportunity to set the record straight, he said gebre many mistakes, he took responsibility for, but there were a number of things that he felt the government got right. he said in all of the, it was made with the nhs in mind. so was made with the nhs in mind. for many was made with the nhs in mind. 6r many people suffer, so many people lost their lives. inevitably, in the course of trying to handle very, very difficult pandemic in which we had to balance appalling harms on either side of the decision, we may have made mistakes. i think... i don't want to try and anticipate the discussion, which i'm sure we will get into about the timings of mpis,

lockdowns, inevitably we got something wrong. i think we were doing our best at the time, given what we knew, given the information we had available at the time, i think we did our level best. where there are things that we should have done differently? unquestionably. obviously it was quite an emotional time for those watching in the inquiry room, a number of whom had come from miles away to see boris johnson in action. we'll lose viewers now on bbc two. as i say, emotional scenes in the inquiry room, there was a moment where some people, some protest as whom he had seen outside went inside and made a protest in the inquiry room. the

ain and protest in the inquiry room. the pain and the _ protest in the inquiry room. tt2 pain and the loss and the suffering... sit pain and the loss and the suffering. . ._ pain and the loss and the sufferin: . .. ,, ., , .,, suffering... sit down, please. please, suffering... sit down, please. please. sit— suffering... sit down, please. please, sit down! _ suffering... sit down, please. please, sit down! please, - suffering... sit down, please. please, sit down! please, sit| suffering... sit down, please. - please, sit down! please, sit down or i'm _ please, sit down! please, sit down or i'm afraid— please, sit down! please, sit down or i'm afraid you'll have to leave the hearing _ or i'm afraid you'll have to leave the hearing room. i'm sorry, if you don't _ the hearing room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit _ the hearing room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down, i will ask the artist — don't sit down, i will ask the artist to— don't sit down, i will ask the artist to get you to leave. —— asked the arshads — artist to get you to leave. —— asked the arshads. please, could you ask them _ the arshads. please, could you ask them to— the arshads. please, could you ask them to leave?— the arshads. please, could you ask them to leave? quite dramatic scenes in the inquiry — them to leave? quite dramatic scenes in the inquiry room, _ them to leave? quite dramatic scenes in the inquiry room, something - them to leave? quite dramatic scenes in the inquiry room, something we - in the inquiry room, something we haven't seen so far doing this inquiry other that have been protesters outside. i'm joined by fran, you are one of the people injected from your seat.- injected from your seat. what happened? — injected from your seat. what happened? several— injected from your seat. iszafii happened? several volunteers who happened ? several volunteers who look happened? several volunteers who look after the national covid memorial award decided they didn't want mrjohnson to control the narrative. he has been trying very hard with his leaks of the weekend and we knew he was going to attempt to apologise. we felt it was necessary that he realised we would

not accept his apology. we stood up in the background, silently, and held up these signs. [30 in the background, silently, and held up these signs.— in the background, silently, and held up these signs. do you feel, thou~h, held up these signs. do you feel, though. that _ held up these signs. do you feel, though, that there _ held up these signs. do you feel, though, that there is, _ held up these signs. do you feel, though, that there is, that - held up these signs. do you feel, | though, that there is, that maybe you need to come to this inquiry with an open mind, because he has to have his moment to give his opinion? you might change your opinion, you never know. you might change your opinion, you never know-— never know. unfortunately, as we were asked _ never know. unfortunately, as we were asked to _ never know. unfortunately, as we were asked to leave, _ never know. unfortunately, as we were asked to leave, we - never know. unfortunately, as we were asked to leave, we haven't l were asked to leave, we haven't heard any of the evidence this morning, we will have to review it later, our minds unfortunately will not be as open as he might wish because we are all grieving for people who are dead, he didn't need to dive. i5 people who are dead, he didn't need to dive. , ., , people who are dead, he didn't need to dive. , . , .., to dive. is there anything he can sa toda to dive. is there anything he can say today that — to dive. is there anything he can say today that we _ to dive. is there anything he can say today that we change - to dive. is there anything he can say today that we change our i to dive. is there anything he can . say today that we change our mind, that could give you some closure, make you feel better? ida. that could give you some closure, make you feel better?— that could give you some closure, | make you feel better?- we make you feel better? no, no. we heard in that _ make you feel better? no, no. we heard in that first _ make you feel better? no, no. we heard in that first hour, _ make you feel better? no, no. we heard in that first hour, just - make you feel better? no, no. we heard in that first hour, just over l heard in that first hour, just over an hour of evidence, he made it very clear he wanted to be apologetic, wanted to say sorry, took personal responsibility for many of the decisions made, after all it was his decision, he was the prime minister

at the time.