speaking on 2020 so that those speaking on behalf — 2020 so that those speaking on behalf of — 2020 so that those speaking on behalf of the uk government did an incomplete job of outlining the territorial scope of the data, information or guidance. in the first_ information or guidance. in the first months there was almost no mention— first months there was almost no mention of— first months there was almost no mention of devolved administrations or the _ mention of devolved administrations or the first _ mention of devolved administrations or the first ministers. there was little _ or the first ministers. there was little attempt to outline what applied uk wide and what applied to ehgtahd~ _ applied uk wide and what applied to england. rephrase this country was used this— england. rephrase this country was used this much to mean england, the uk or— used this much to mean england, the uk or great— used this much to mean england, the uk or great britain. it goes on to -ive uk or great britain. it goes on to give an_ uk or great britain. it goes on to give an instance. given by your own admission_ give an instance. given by your own admission the critical nature of the communications and the fact that messaging was the most important tool messaging was the most important toot the _ messaging was the most important tool the uk had to deal with the virus. _ tool the uk had to deal with the virus. was — tool the uk had to deal with the virus, was sufficient consideration given— virus, was sufficient consideration given by— virus, was sufficient consideration given by the uk commence to ensure that the _ given by the uk commence to ensure that the geographical, the dress tissue _ that the geographical, the dress tissue under the guidance was made clear? _ tissue under the guidance was made clear? i_ tissue under the guidance was made clear? , , ,

clear? i did my level best during the ress clear? i did my level best during the press conferences _ clear? i did my level best during the press conferences to - clear? i did my level best during the press conferences to try - clear? i did my level best during the press conferences to try to l clear? i did my level best during - the press conferences to try to make clear where the restrictions apply to. i rememberseveraltimes clear where the restrictions apply to. i remember several times saying that they applied only to england and trying to restrict what we were saying. mr and trying to restrict what we were sa inc. ~ and trying to restrict what we were sa in. ~ . ., saying. mrjohnson i have one example--- — saying. mrjohnson i have one example... you _ saying. mrjohnson i have one example... you cannot - saying. mrjohnson i have one example... you cannot blamei example... you cannot blame ministers _ example... you cannot blame ministers for _ example... you cannot blame ministers for talking - example... you cannot blame ministers for talking about. example... you cannot blame| ministers for talking about this country when that is common... the difficulty is — country when that is common... the difficulty is that ministers are leaking — difficulty is that ministers are leaking on behalf of the uk government to all people that they are getting it. if they say this country— are getting it. if they say this country at stream be clear which countrym — country at stream be clear which country- - -_ country at stream be clear which count . . ., , country... we are all one country... you clarify — country... we are all one country... you clarify that _ country... we are all one country... you clarify that measures _ country... we are all one country... you clarify that measures apply - country... we are all one country... you clarify that measures apply to l you clarify that measures apply to england _ you clarify that measures apply to england only on occasion and then set out _ england only on occasion and then set out rules to follow for the british — set out rules to follow for the british public. it's what was needed clarity— british public. it's what was needed clarity and — british public. it's what was needed clarity and distant not in fact that the problem was that the difficulty was created by the uk government.

later— was created by the uk government. later on _ was created by the uk government. later on in — was created by the uk government. later on in this report it says that notwithstanding efforts throughout 2020 the uk government repeatedly failed to— 2020 the uk government repeatedly failed to verify rules governing school — failed to verify rules governing school closures, social gathering, tocat _ school closures, social gathering, local authority, funds for the coronavirus community support, the renewal— coronavirus community support, the renewal task force, dedicated funding — renewal task force, dedicated funding for mental health, increased marshatts _ funding for mental health, increased marshalls on nail networks, other retail— marshalls on nail networks, other retail is _ marshalls on nail networks, other retail is where all england specific. the report goes on to say that this _ specific. the report goes on to say that this is — specific. the report goes on to say that this is particularly important as in— that this is particularly important as in some — that this is particularly important as in some instances and spokespeople were calling on individuals to change their behaviour and as such rules would not have _ behaviour and as such rules would not have applied throughout the uk. indeed _ not have applied throughout the uk. indeed it _ not have applied throughout the uk. indeed it was advice about rules rather— indeed it was advice about rules rather than data that suffered from a particular lack of clarity. given what _ a particular lack of clarity. given what is — a particular lack of clarity. given what is side in this report mr johnson _ what is side in this report mr johnson does the uk government faited _ johnson does the uk government failed to— johnson does the uk government failed to properly implement the most _ failed to properly implement the most important tool that they had to deal with— most important tool that they had to deal with the virus? i most important tool that they had to deal with the virus?— deal with the virus? i think if you

look at the _ deal with the virus? i think if you look at the public _ deal with the virus? i think if you look at the public understanding | deal with the virus? i think if you l look at the public understanding of what we were trying to say it was remarkable how clearly people got the message. considering the extreme complexity of the rules and considering the fact that there was divergence. what you have got here is in all this conversation a perfect example of how different messaging can be confusing for ministers, for people across the whole of the uk. the virus thinks whatever the snp may think, the virus thinks this is all one country. virus thinks this is all one country-— virus thinks this is all one count . �* ., , ., , country. i'm not asking questions about the snp _ country. i'm not asking questions about the snp | _ country. i'm not asking questions about the snp i am _ country. i'm not asking questions about the snp i am asking - country. i'm not asking questions i about the snp i am asking questions about— about the snp i am asking questions about your— about the snp i am asking questions about your ministers messaging during _ about your ministers messaging during the pandemic. you have said that it _ during the pandemic. you have said that it was — during the pandemic. you have said that it was complex and it may be no doubt _ that it was complex and it may be no doubt that— that it was complex and it may be no

doubt that that was so but would not be all _ doubt that that was so but would not be all the _ doubt that that was so but would not be all the more reason to make absolutely clear that every time you stood _ absolutely clear that every time you stood up _ absolutely clear that every time you stood up and spoke to the four nations— stood up and spoke to the four nations that made it clear what the rules— nations that made it clear what the rules were — nations that made it clear what the rules were for each nation and each country _ rules were for each nation and each country |_ rules were for each nation and each count . . ., . ., rules were for each nation and each count . _, . ., . . country. i could have done that and that miaht country. i could have done that and that might indeed _ country. i could have done that and that might indeed be _ country. i could have done that and that might indeed be a _ country. i could have done that and that might indeed be a way - country. i could have done that and | that might indeed be a way forward. i think you may have hit on a solution which is that in future it should be entirely the job of the prime of the uk to announce the different rules that apply in different rules that apply in different places across the uk rather than having those messages blurred. i happen to think that would still be immensely complicated and people would not understand quite why they were differences. all i am saying is that i think there

were legitimate democratic desire of the democratic... devolved authorities to have their own approach to public health but i think in the particular context of a brutal pandemic they had to be some way of helping the public with greater unity of messaging. that is all i'm saying. the greater unity of messaging. that is all i'm saying-— all i'm saying. the best we have... the best ways _ all i'm saying. the best we have... the best ways to _ all i'm saying. the best we have... the best ways to look _ all i'm saying. the best we have... the best ways to look for - all i'm saying. the best we have... the best ways to look for clarity i the best ways to look for clarity would _ the best ways to look for clarity would that be correct?- the best ways to look for clarity would that be correct? think that clarity follows — would that be correct? think that clarity follows unity. _ would that be correct? think that clarity follows unity. i _ would that be correct? think that clarity follows unity. i think- would that be correct? think that clarity follows unity. i think we i clarity follows unity. i think we have gone _ clarity follows unity. i think we have gone further— clarity follows unity. i think we have gone further enough. - clarity follows unity. i think we have gone further enough. i i clarity follows unity. i think we i have gone further enough. i shall return at quarter past three. so the covid inquiry is taking a short break there and just to bring you some of the key points that we heard in that particular hearing there. one of the criticisms of the inquiry is has not heard enough

detailfrom the families inquiry is has not heard enough detail from the families who lost their lives to covid. this afternoon lawyers representing the four national bereaved groups have been questioning the former prime minister borisjohnson. we heard from brenda campbell representing northern ireland, covid bereaved families who reference the party gate scandal and when asked boris johnson whether he could have done more to stop it. he responded that given by what he knew at the time the answer is no but talked about possibly having done more to be mindful of the rules and quote how it might appear. we also heard from bethan harris who represents wales who highlighted the difference between wales and england approached lock downs during the autumn and winter than king winter of 2020

wales had a 17 day firebreak whereas england had a four—week lockdown and she asked borisjohnson whether there was any thought about the idea that england could have gone into lockdown alongside wales. boris johnson replied that he cannot remember specific conversations but he was sure that he was thinking about these options at the time. just to reiterate that the hearing is taking a break at the moment but we will return to the covid inquiry when it resumes. a lot of other news to bring you right now including some breaking news that has come through from the home secretary james cleverly who have said that he is incredibly disappointed by matters decision to encrypt facebook and messenger chats. he said that this government supports strong encryption but this cannot come at the cost of public security especially the safety of our children. he said law enforcement charities and our close international partners all agree that these plans to roll out and to

end encryption without safety willing hamper the use of police to bring offenders to justice. willing hamper the use of police to bring offenders tojustice. but willing hamper the use of police to bring offenders to justice. but come home through from james cleverly. just to make clear that metta are not unique in using end to end encryption and as you may know already that apps including eye message and what's up all use and two and encryption. that is some information that has come through from the home secretary. the prime minister has been defending his plans to stop illegal immigration after the dramatic resignation of the home office minister roberts generic the immigration minister who claimed that the proposals don't go far enough. mr sue not called reporters to downing street and assisted his draft immigration will

prevent most legal challenges that have been used to stop asylum seekers. this report now from helen. a promised under pressure but defiant. we will get flights off the ground, we will deter immigrants from coming here, we'll finally stop the boats. he had an uncompromising message to say that those... he had an uncompromising message to say that those. . ._ say that those... there is no point havin: say that those... there is no point having some _ say that those... there is no point having some legislation _ say that those... there is no point having some legislation that - say that those... there is no point. having some legislation that means you cannot send anybody anywhere will stop it is not going to help anyone. when we are talking about an inch of difference and the difference between making a operational scheme when you can send somebody or not. it is clear that we are making notjust the right approach but the only approach. critics include inflectional figures including robert here, he said that

the bill would not work and was a triumph of hope over experience. this morning his former boss said made it clear that she was not one over either. made it clear that she was not one over either-— over either. the truth is that it won't work _ over either. the truth is that it won't work and _ over either. the truth is that it won't work and that _ over either. the truth is that it won't work and that is - over either. the truth is that it won't work and that is my - over either. the truth is that it i won't work and that is my opinion having read it in the last 204i was. figures from the right of the party have been brought into to help sell the prime to plan. michael tomlinson in the middle here will now oversee the running to legislation as an legal immigration minister. the prime legal immigration minister. tue: prime minister legal immigration minister. tte: prime minister is legal immigration minister. t“t9: prime minister is so legal immigration minister. tt9 prime minister is so weak that he cannot commence his own side, satisfying nobody. we all want to stop the boats but many on the benches opposite now agree with us that this plan is not workable. rishi sunak will know that this is a moment of real risk. notjust for his policy but for his authority.

are using to your mps, back me sack me. t are using to your mps, back me sack me. :, are using to your mps, back me sack me. ., , are using to your mps, back me sack me. . _ . are using to your mps, back me sack me. ., ., , ., me. i am saying that i share the frustration. _ me. i am saying that i share the frustration. my _ me. i am saying that i share the frustration. my patience - me. i am saying that i share the frustration. my patience with i me. i am saying that i share thel frustration. my patience with this is one thing. for now the promised it will have to wait as his mps came to the details of his latest bill to stop the boats is to decide whether or not to support it in votes due to start next week. there was a good time to get a reminder of why the government draft bill on illegal immigration is so controversial. here is our legal correspondent to explain why. itaims to it aims to do that by blocking step—by—step anything that will stop the claim taking off. it says that

every decision—maker must conclusively treat rewind as a safe country. it meansjudges conclusively treat rewind as a safe country. it means judges that must ignore evidence that rewind is not safe. what ifjudges think that there laws. in exceptional circumstances a migrant could go to court if they specifically face a real eminent and foreseeable rest of irreversible harm. the former home secretary suella braverman predicts that the legislation is so weak that it would let the human rights get involved. the bill declares a minister of the crown can decide whether or not the uk will comply with an interim measure from the strasbourg court to stop the flights. some critics think the package is unworkable or does not go far enough. they are not alone. the governments own lawyers insisted on

this statement that says the legislation may not be compatible with human rights. those words are a warning from them that make or break plan could and up in legal tatters. the review which started in may was led by a barrister. we will get more from my colleague who is there for us now. remind us of the background to this. , :, , to this. phillip schofield left his role on this _ to this. phillip schofield left his role on this morning _ to this. phillip schofield left his role on this morning back- to this. phillip schofield left his role on this morning back in - to this. phillip schofield left his| role on this morning back in may to this. phillip schofield left his - role on this morning back in may and that was following reports of a rift that was following reports of a rift that he had with his co—star holly willoughby. days later the network was engulfed in scandal and that is where schofield confirmed he had a relationship with a younger male colleague at a time when he was still married to his wife. schofield

apologised to his wife and his family and friends and apologise for the affair and left itv with immediate effect. the network subsequently asked a barrister to lead an external review into its handling of the relationship and that review has what come back today and said that itv was micromanagement made considerable efforts to determine the truth about the alleged relationship following on from the publication of the report from the sun newspaper. he said however that in the face of denials itv was unable to uncover the relevant evidence until phillip schofield's admission. the report says that phillip schofield's reluctantly declined to take part because of the risk to his health and the risk also said that they are informed that phillip schofield's mental health has deteriorated. ltrufhat

mental health has deteriorated. what other information _ mental health has deteriorated. what other information emerged from the report? the other information emerged from the re ort? , :, : other information emerged from the re ort? ,:, : . , report? the report which was quite riaht report? the report which was quite right ranging _ report? the report which was quite right ranging found _ report? the report which was quite right ranging found that _ report? the report which was quite right ranging found that the - report? the report which was quite right ranging found that the runnerj right ranging found that the runner assisted him in his early days but beyond this demand seems to have made his own way. the report also made his own way. the report also made some recommendations including, emphasising the importance of creating a culture where junior employees feel able to speak up. itv said that they are in fact already acting on the recommendations, it said that the barrister found no evidence of a toxic culture at the network and they are completely committed to creating environments where everybody is treated with respect. where everybody is treated with resect. :, ~ where everybody is treated with resect. . ,, i. boxes senior coriander said that

the... lacked fairness and respect and sensitivity and was at times rude and intimidating. ruth perry who is head of a school in reading died injanuary. this report from our education minister. ruth parry was the head teacher of caversham primary school for 13 years. she took her life injanuary primary school for 13 years. she took her life in january this primary school for 13 years. she took her life injanuary this year. ofsted was going to stake the school from outstanding to inadequate leaving her distressed for the first morning of the inspection. ruth said that at that first — morning of the inspection. ruth said that at that first meeting _ morning of the inspection. ruth said that at that first meeting she - morning of the inspection. ruth said that at that first meeting she felt i that at that first meeting she felt it was just absolutely relentless. she said it felt like i had was not working. then another question which you do not have time to answer. they would contradict what she would say.

she was in a complete state and she kept repeating herself. i am devastated, i am kept repeating herself. i am devastated, lam broken, i kept repeating herself. i am devastated, lam broken, lam traumatised. th devastated, i am broken, i am traumatised.— devastated, i am broken, i am traumatised. : :, , , traumatised. in evidence other stuff at the school _ traumatised. in evidence other stuff at the school described _ traumatised. in evidence other stuff at the school described the - traumatised. in evidence other stuff at the school described the lead - at the school described the lead inspectors behaviour is mocking and unpleasant. he told the court that he pours their first conversation after mrs perry became tearful. ofsted has previously described the inspection is professional and sensitive. the inquest heard that ruth perry was distressed and barely able to speak after meeting the legal inspector on the first morning. inspectors were raising concerns about the record—keeping for keeping children safe at the school is an experienced head teacher ruth perry knew that if they were judged teacher ruth perry knew that if they werejudged ineffective teacher ruth perry knew that if they were judged ineffective from safeguarding they would be judged inadequate overall. the inquest also heard that no child came to harm.

caversham was where ruth perry had grown up, she went to the school as a child. the family said that she dwelt on what would happen when ofsted published the report, fearing shame and humiliation and the loss of herjob. shame and humiliation and the loss of her 'ob. , , :, :, , of her “0b. this is going to be the end of herjob. this is going to be the end of her— of herjob. this is going to be the end of her career— of herjob. this is going to be the end of her career and _ of herjob. this is going to be the end of her career and she - of herjob. this is going to be the end of her career and she do - of herjob. this is going to be the | end of her career and she do know what know what to do. i don't she could hold her head up high. i think she was so distraught by it. she had felt like she had let everybody down. she had let down the government, the pupils, she had let down herfamily. ruth government, the pupils, she had let down her family.— down her family. ruth perry died on the 8th ofjanuary _ down her family. ruth perry died on the 8th ofjanuaryjust _ down her family. ruth perry died on the 8th ofjanuaryjust two - down her family. ruth perry died on the 8th of januaryjust two months i the 8th of januaryjust two months after the inspection. the gp said that it had contributed to her deteriorating mental health and death. ofsted published the report grading the school as inadequate, it had her name on it with a note saying that she had died. t

had her name on it with a note saying that she had died. i find it's callous. — saying that she had died. i find it's callous, heartless, - it's callous, heartless, insensitive, tone deaf and these are notjust insensitive, tone deaf and these are not just the times that insensitive, tone deaf and these are notjust the times that i've been using to just pretend that everything is ok. in using to just pretend that everything is ok.- using to just pretend that everything is ok. using to just pretend that eve him is ok. : , . :, everything is ok. in april a month after the family _ everything is ok. in april a month after the family said _ everything is ok. in april a month after the family said the - everything is ok. in april a month| after the family said the inspection had contributed to her death ofsted responded. the had contributed to her death ofsted resonded. , , : responded. the findings were secure and i thinkthe _ responded. the findings were secure and i think the inspection _ responded. the findings were secure and i think the inspection team - and i think the inspection team worked with the professionalism that i would expect. worked with the professionalism that i would “pact-— i would expect. more changes were romised i would expect. more changes were promised in — i would expect. more changes were promised in june. _ i would expect. more changes were promised in june. schools - i would expect. more changes were promised in june. schools graded l i would expect. more changes were| promised in june. schools graded as promised injune. schools graded as inadequate would be swiftly re—inspected giving them a chance to change. ofsted went back to the school in the summer, this time it was graded good as a result of the changes made. the poet and writer benjamin zephaniah has died, he had been diagnosed with a brain tumour

eight weeks ago. his family described him as a true pioneer. share described him as a true pioneer. are used to described him as a true pioneer. £9 used to think nurses described him as a true pioneer. 2:9 used to think nurses were described him as a true pioneer. 29 used to think nurses were women. described him as a true pioneer. 2:9 used to think nurses were women. i used to think nurses were women. i used to think poets were boring. delay became one of them. ben'amin zehaniah. delay became one of them. ben'amin zephanrah. he — delay became one of them. ben'amin zephaniah. he rose i delay became one of them. ben'amin zephaniah. he rose to i delay became one of them. ben'amin zephaniah. he rose to fame, h delay became one of them. benjamin zephaniah. he rose to fame, his - delay became one of them. benjamin zephaniah. he rose to fame, his dub| zephaniah. he rose to fame, his dub poetry rooted in the rhythms language of handsworth and birmingham. his words were political, musical, radical, reflecting racism. he was also highly acclaimed. the recipient of 16 are ennobled doctorates. his passing is a terrible loss. t 16 are ennobled doctorates. his passing is a terrible loss. i think what marked — passing is a terrible loss. i think what marked him _ passing is a terrible loss. i think what marked him out _ passing is a terrible loss. i think what marked him out was - passing is a terrible loss. i think what marked him out was this i passing is a terrible loss. i think. what marked him out was this his unique personality. his roots, he

was so proud. he unique personality. his roots, he was so proud-— unique personality. his roots, he was so roud. ., ., , , ., ., was so proud. he also appeared more recentl in was so proud. he also appeared more recently in peaky _ was so proud. he also appeared more recently in peaky blinders. _ was so proud. he also appeared more recently in peaky blinders. in - was so proud. he also appeared more recently in peaky blinders. in a - recently in peaky blinders. in a statement his family said that he was a true pioneer and innovator. he left the world a joyful and fantastic legacy. the poetry of benjamin zephaniah. t fantastic legacy. the poetry of benjamin zephaniah.— fantastic legacy. the poetry of benjamin zephaniah. i am not the roblem if benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you — benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you give _ benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you give me _ benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you give me a - benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you give me a chance l benjamin zephaniah. i am not the problem if you give me a chance i | problem if you give me a chancel will take you to timbuktu, i can do more than die. i am not the problem i greet you with a smile, you put me in a pigeonhole but i am versatile. this condition may affect me as i get older and i am positively sure that i have no chips upon my shoulders but that is not the problem, get it right and just for the record some of my best friends are white. �* :,

the record some of my best friends are white. �* . , . . ., are white. ben'amin zephaniah who has died at are white. benjamin zephaniah who has died at the _ are white. benjamin zephaniah who has died at the age _ are white. benjamin zephaniah who has died at the age of _ are white. benjamin zephaniah who has died at the age of 65. - lettuce return now to the covert inquiry which is continuing to hear evidence from borisjohnson. t inquiry which is continuing to hear evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus — evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus on _ evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus on the _ evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus on the period _ evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus on the period that - evidence from boris johnson. i would like to focus on the period that led i like to focus on the period that led to be first lockdown in march 2020. during those critical days, why didn't your government put measures in place to mitigate the potential harsh effects of the pandemic on vulnerable and minority groups. can you help me with that please? certainly can. we recognise that a pandemic has so patrick has said was

going to be brutalfor the pandemic has so patrick has said was going to be brutal for the whole country but i think that's one of the things that i had been told from the things that i had been told from the beginning was that if you remember in the conversations we have had about the downsides of lockdown is that they were likely to be felt particularly by those from lower income groups, ethnic minority backgrounds, who would typically, it is a generalisation, be more vulnerable. so in that particular stage it was one of the reasons why we were so careful about the time limits of the lockdown is that we have described. mr limits of the lockdown is that we have described.— limits of the lockdown is that we have described. ~ . :, ,:, , have described. mrjohnson help me with this because _ have described. mrjohnson help me with this because i _ have described. mrjohnson help me with this because i may _ have described. mrjohnson help me with this because i may have - have described. mrjohnson help me with this because i may have missed this, bearing in mind that these, as

you havejust this, bearing in mind that these, as you have just said were anticipated and low income groups, ethnic minorities, tell me what were the measures that your government put in place to protect these groups? t place to protect these groups? i have described the impact of the way that affected policy. what we didn't at that stage no, and i think that is what patrick is talking about, what we do not know is the extent to which the virus itself would impact different types differently. that was only ready to become apparent in the course of the weeks ahead. lise the course of the weeks ahead. use only weeks — the course of the weeks ahead. tt39 only weeks ahead, very early on it became apparent, the first ten

doctors who died were from ethnic minority backgrounds. the first ten doctors were doctors of colour mr johnson, you knew that right? that is correct- -- — johnson, you knew that right? that is correct... or _ johnson, you knew that right? that is correct... or can _ johnson, you knew that right? that is correct... or can i _ johnson, you knew that right? that is correct... or can i clarify that you knew that? i knew i'd done i think i'm right in saying that of the victims in the nhs, the nhs staff, i may have got the figure wrong but is something like 60% in the first year were from ethnic minority backgrounds, i may be wrong about that but is something that order. it was falling disproportionately on these people and we did spot that very early on and we did spot that very early on and i was very worried about it and i tried to find out why as fast as

we could. i tried to find out why as fast as we could-— i tried to find out why as fast as we could. , , :,, : . �* :, we could. just to be clear i'm not for one moment _ we could. just to be clear i'm not for one moment suggesting - we could. just to be clear i'm not for one moment suggesting that | we could. just to be clear i'm not i for one moment suggesting that you did not try to find out why, what my question was aimed at what you... what protective measures to be put in place to protect these vulnerable groups, that was my question. let me move on... tt groups, that was my question. let me move on- - -_ move on... it would be fair to say until we establish _ move on... it would be fair to say until we establish the _ move on... it would be fair to say until we establish the trail - move on... it would be fair to say until we establish the trail of i until we establish the trail of conversation what was going on it was difficult to put him specific measures for specific groups but clearly we needed to do more to protect nhs front line staff... they made a huge and tragic sacrifice. taste made a huge and tragic sacrifice. we can made a huge and tragic sacrifice. 9 can agree on that. let me move onto my second topic. in your witness statement you so that there was a

vast underestimation of the risks related to disparities in health outcomes and new state in paragraph 46. considering this acknowledgement what were the specific factors or considerations that contributed to this underestimation in the context of disparities in health outcomes particularly for those based on ethnicity. t particularly for those based on ethnici . ~' :, particularly for those based on ethnici . ,, :, , ethnicity. i think to begin with we were... i was _ ethnicity. i think to begin with we were... i was looking _ ethnicity. i think to begin with we were... i was looking at - ethnicity. i think to begin with we were... i was looking at the i ethnicity. i think to begin with we were... i was looking at the data | ethnicity. i think to begin with we l were... i was looking at the data as it started to come in, it was heartbreaking and we were uncertain as to the cause. the question bluntly was whether there was... whether they were medical reasons or whether they were occupational reasons for the greater suffering. i think it took us a while to try to

get to the answer. we try to get to the answer quickly but a great deal of work was done on that subject. the answer is who i'm sure you know is that it appears that there isn't a medical grounds... what it tragically was was fantastic nhs staff from ethnic minorities backgrounds were in the front line dealing with patients and being exposed to the virus.— dealing with patients and being exposed to the virus. forgive me mr johnson it is — exposed to the virus. forgive me mr johnson it is more _ exposed to the virus. forgive me mr johnson it is more than _ exposed to the virus. forgive me mr johnson it is more than that. - exposed to the virus. forgive me mr johnson it is more than that. we i exposed to the virus. forgive me mr| johnson it is more than that. we had yourformer health johnson it is more than that. we had your former health secretary mr hancock sitting where you were sitting i believe last friday and he agreed with me and i'm sure you would agree with me that we can also

agree that part of the disproportionate impact on the black and asian communities including health care workers was as a result of institutional racism. can we agree on that? t of institutional racism. can we agree on that?— of institutional racism. can we agree on that? of institutional racism. can we aaree on that? . :, : . . agree on that? i am not certain that i've seen evidence _ agree on that? i am not certain that i've seen evidence to _ agree on that? i am not certain that i've seen evidence to support i agree on that? i am not certain that i've seen evidence to support that. l i've seen evidence to support that. i've seen evidence to support that. i would be... i've seen evidence to support that. i would bem— i've seen evidence to support that. i would be... you are unaware of the re orts i would be... you are unaware of the reports done — i would be... you are unaware of the reports done by _ i would be... you are unaware of the reports done by public— i would be... you are unaware of the reports done by public health - reports done by public health england that mr hancock was telling us about when it was talking about institutional relate system, you are completely aware of that? t institutional relate system, you are completely aware of that?- institutional relate system, you are completely aware of that? i have not seen the report. _ completely aware of that? i have not seen the report, the _ completely aware of that? i have not seen the report, the information i i seen the report, the information i have had was that... the information i had did not mention that as a factor. let me move on. thejune 2020 report

has been cited as a pivotal moment in the understanding and addressing risks and outcomes relating to the covid—19 pandemic. would you consider this report to be your first substantive opportunity for engagement on this crucial issue? on which issue? i will repeat the question, on the issue of addressing disparities and risks and outcomes related to the covid—19 virus. right, well, what we did was to try to make sure that everybody had the best possible protection and to do whatever we could to stop infection of those particularly black, asian and minority ethnic minority who were in the front line in the fight against covid—19. sometimes tragically, we did not