thank you. on this cultural life, i ask my guests to reflect on the most significant influences and experiences that have shaped their own creativity. you were born and raised in chelsea in new york city in the late �*50s and the �*60s? yes. what are your earliest cultural memories as a child? you're talking about a little kid, i'm a little kid? the most important thing to me was that the people around me, again, the people around me never said, "you can't do this." so you want to know what the inspiration was? it was my mother. cos my mother said, "if that's what you want to do, "sure, let's find out how to do it." what about school? what sort of pupil were you? i was not a great pupil. i was dyslexic. i am dyslexic... but didn't know at the time? at the time, no. they just thought i was just being lazy. my mum didn't think i wasjust being lazy, shejust didn't... she said, "i don't know what it is, but, you know, it's ok."

and so she didn't allow people to call me stupid or any of the words that lots of people had to deal with. i know i'm talking a lot about my mum, but i... i was very blessed to have the woman that i had as a mother because she was just odd enough to recognise the oddity in her child. and that was kind of groovy. i read that you left school very early, before you were supposed to... yes. ..so how were you educated? i was educated all over the place. i made a deal because i couldn't take high school. i couldn't do it, it was really hard. and my mother said, "listen, you cannot run in the streets, "but what i will do with you is, we will together find the places "where you can go, to the museums, you can go to a lecture. "we will find these places together. "and when i come from work and i say to you, �*what did you learn today? "�*where did your mind go?',

you have to tell me." and i was lucky enough because i... you need to show me things, i don't... i'm not a great reader. you have to show me, you have to tell me. and then i can sort of go wherever i need to go. and so for me, my interest in learning was lit by her saying, "you can'tjust do nothing." how did it inspire you? and what...? it inspired me to ask questions, to say, "i don't understand, "can you help me understand?" or, "what's the most interesting thing i need to know about this?" and, you know, in the �*60s, you could do stuff like that. things were free. public lectures? public lectures on all kinds of crazy stuff. so you were mixing with adults a lot during the daytime when, ordinarily, you would be at school. you were later known as a comic storyteller on stage.— were you drawing on some of those people that you met on the streets, on the people around you, in the community?

no, just people i passed, you know? i would love to tell you it was as organised as you're... ..as you're talking about it, but it wasn't. i was lucky enough to have been around a lot of different people. and when i decided that i needed to create characters, ijust kind of thought back to people i'd met, or people i'd seen, because, you know, i wanted to... ..i wanted to be in theatres and stuff. and if you weren't, you know, a good auditioner, or you were not as sharp as some, but there were things you could do, i had to find a way to show what i was able to do. you say you went to a lot of free public projects, lectures, museums, but what about theatre, which is not free? well, it wasn't free, no, you're right. but it was free sometimes in the evenings, becausejoe papp used to have a travelling theatre company that went around new york city and did

all the great shakespeare plays. new york shakespeare festival mobile theater is here tonight at 8pm at madison and ralph street. and suddenly a truck would arrive, it would open itself up, and there were six or seven actors, you know, doing midsummer's night dream, and you'rejust kind of like, wow! and your whole neighbourhood is watching. what dreadful dole is here? eyes, do you see? how can it be? these were the things that happened when i was a kid. theatre was happening on the streets. people were doing things in the parks. the learning was there. it was there for the picking. was it also aspiration as well? did you look at those actors and think, "that's what i want to do?" no, i always knew i was going to do it. i always knew that was what i wanted. you knew anyway? yeah, i never thought i was going to be a famous movie person, but i always knew i was going to be a character actor. that was never a question. it was in my soul. itjust was...

it was just part of me. in the late 1970s, you moved to california to pursue these acting ambitions... no, no, i wish that were true. you went there for other reasons? yes, i went there for a guy. and ijust happened to fall into... ..all the folks at the san diego rep. sure. he worked with them. and later, in 1984, you met the oscar—winning director mike nichols, who made the graduate and who's afraid of virginia woolf? and this is the next significant moment that we're going to discuss. how did you meet him? i was invited to do a series of monologues, and the first night, there were maybe four people in the audience, because nobody knew who i was, and then someone wrote a wonderful review about me in the new york times... right. ..which shocked me. but it was like, "wow, great." and then suddenly, the houses were full.

and one day, my mother said to me — cos we would walk over to the theatre, cos it was in the old neighbourhood — and she said, "i don't ever want to tell you what i know, i said, "what?" she said, "i think mike nichols is going to be in the audience." and i said, "wait, mike nichols, like the graduate guy?" she said, "yes." isaid, "well, what makes you think that?" she said, "well, i think maybe i saw his name on a list. "i'm not sure." i said, "ok." because i had no idea what he looked like, it didn't freak me out at all, but she was very excited and i was happy. and i did my show and... ..i went to change my clothes, and there was a knock, and i opened the door and my mother went... she gasps and he said, "hello, miss goldberg, "i'm mike nichols." and i was like, "hi! "hello!" and he said, "i have to tell you that i've been weeping "because the story you did about fontaine," who was the first character

that you meet, he's a junkie. she laughs rosanna cu—tay! looking good, my name is fontaine. and love is my game. and when i kiss the girls, hey, they all aflame. come on, let me kiss your hand. no, the one with the diamonds on it. laughter and he ends up going across to europe and ends up in amsterdam at the anne frank house. and i ran to the door, but i got stopped by a big sign... ..that said, "in spite of everything, i still believe "people are good at heart." i say, "what? !" i mean, who put this up? why would they put it in this room, huh? ijust couldn't understand it, you know? so i copped a attitude, decided to write a letter to the author of the quote, so i got up close enough to see the author's name and myjaw dropped, cos it said, "anne frank." and i thought, "this is too childish forwords, man."

and as soon as i said that, it made perfect sense. of course anne frank could say that. she was a child, she was a kid. and, you know, no matter what you do to children, they are always able to still see some good in you. mike nichols, he says, "i was on the last boat out of germany..." as a refugee? as a refugee. "and so that story knocked me out. "would you ever want to do... "..this show for broadway?" i thought he was kidding orjust being nice. and i said, "absolutely, absolutely." so when we got home, my mother said, "i think he was asking if you wanted to work with him." isaid, "no, no, he would have said that. "he would have said that." so a month after i get home, my phone rings in berkeley, where i live. and he says, "ms goldberg," and his voice was very distinctive, so you always knew who it was. and i said, "hey, hey, mike nichols, how are you?" you know, he said, "i'm well."

he said, "i've found a theatre." i said, "you found a theatre? great." he says, "you don't know what i'm talking about, do you?" isaid, "no." he said, "i want you to bring your show to new york "and i want to produce it." and i said, "wait, wait a minute, are you sure? "because, you know, i'm not always good, "you saw me on a good night." i said, "i'm not sure." he said, "well, think about it, think about it." and i said, "what if i'm terrible?" he said, "have you been terrible before?" isaid, "oh, yeah, many times." he said, "then you'll be terrible again. "here are the dates, i would like to do this." and i said, "ok," and hung up, called my mother and said, "i think mike nichols just invited me "to come back to new york." she said, "i told you." and so i went back, and... ..there is no greater experience than having someone like mike...

..sit and listen, because he would say... ..in the theatre for rehearsal, he would say, i'd be onstage and i'd be doing it, and you'd hear... deep sigh and i'd say, "are you 0k?" he said, "yes, i'm fine." "is there an end to this story, or are you just talking?" and i said, "well, no, there is an end." he said, "good, because i heard it about seven minutes ago. "and you're not listening to yourself." and i thought, "oh, this is an adult, 0k. "no more fooling around, this is what it is. "this is how you do it." so he helped refine the show... and me! ..and to hone it. and also, just to be clear, what you were doing with the show, cos it's a series of characters. yes. you have thejunkie burglar, you have a sort of valley girl surfer. there's a jamaican guy and there's a woman with a disability. there's all these different people.

and they were monologues, and you were going from one character to another. but he was telling me i needed to pay attention to the monologue i was doing. he was editing you, then? yes, he was. and he was saying, "if you're not going to pay attention, "they're not going to pay attention, so get here." it was like, "0k." and i never made that mistake again. how old are you? 35. i'm going to be seven on wednesday. yeah, thank you. i'm big for my age cos we live near a nuclear reactor. laughter and applause this is a life—changing moment, because he's putting you on the broadway stage.- before that, you're playing the clubs, the small theatres, small crowds. ijust thought, "look at how lucky i am." "i mean, my god, it's mike nichols. "he could have had a headache rather than come and see my show." what would have happened then if he hadn't come? would it have still happened? would this have...

who knows? but luck had it that he came. i mean, your comedy has been controversial over the years, hasn't it? do you look back at any of it... apparently! do you regret any of the sketches, the routines? not one thing, no. any of the gags? well, because i'm not a gag person. right. but the things that i've done, there've been a reason. you know, there was a reason i wanted to show thatjust because someone visually looks different or physically looks different doesn't mean they're not entitled to the same loves, the same heartbreak, the same everything as the rest of us. and all of my work, all of my work has been aboutjust... ..think about this. it may not be your experience, but just think about it, cos you may find somebody whose experience it becomes. your stage show in new york, which ran in 1984 and 1985, won a grammy award for best comedy album — the recording of the show. yes, yes. hi, whoopi.

how are you feeling today? pretty good. how are you doing? they're all upstairs waiting for you. all right, see you later. see you now. and it was around this time that steven spielberg... ..saw the show, and your life changed again.- when did you first meet him? when he said, "i can't come to see your show "because i'm here in la. "are you coming back to la at any point? "would you mind letting me see the show?" and i was like, "sure," cos i wanted to be in, you know, raiders of the lost ark and, you know, et, if it came back. so i said, "sure!" and so i was on my way back to berkeley, california, and i stopped and he said, "i've just built the stage "here at amblin" — which was his company — and, "would you mind doing the show here?" i was like, "sure!" he says, "i want to talk to you. i'm making a movie." now, during all of this — before everything, before i went to broadway — i had listened to a reading of the color purple on npr.

and my daughter and i were in the car and we pulled over our van to listen to this reading, and we made a decision that instead of maybe buying two pairs of shoes for my daughter, we'd get a book and a pair of shoes. and so the color purple was one that she and i listened to together. and so when i got to los angeles and i met steve and he said, "oh, and i'm making this movie". i said, "what are you making?" he said, "color purple". i said, "oh, cool — i wrote alice walker a letter." he said, "i know," and he pulled it out. she had sent it to him. why had you written to alice walker? well, because i thought the book was magnificent. and i said, "if they ever make a movie, i would like to play dirt "on the floor," and she's like, "0k!" she wrote to quinchones

and wrote to steven spielberg and wrote back to me saying, you know, "they may be making a movie, i'll keep you posted." and she had already sent it all to steven, because alice walker lived in berkeley and she had seen my show. she'd come to see the show? she'd come and seen my show. but you had no idea. no! you know, because you don't really meet the audience necessarily, unless they come and say, "hello, i am so—and—so." so you arrive at steven spielberg's private theatre, expecting just to entertain him. did you realise that this was an audition? no, nor did i realise he had other people sitting in the audience at the same time, you know? and he didn't tell me, which i'm ever gratefulfor, but i'm standing behind this curtain and i never look. i generally don't care. but ijust was curious, cos i could hear people talking and i kind of looked through the curtain. i'm thinking, "oh, my god — is that michaeljackson? "is that ashford and simpson?

"oh, my god, is that quinchones? !" and so now i'm like, "ok, so these people, "they're a regular old audience, i'm not going to think about it" but my agent — my newly minted agent — said to me, "now, look, just do your show. "don't do anything extra — just do the show." so i do the show and they're laughing, they're having a great time, and i'm thinking, "oh, my god! "they think i'm good!" and it goes on and on, and they say, "more", and i think, "oh, this is not a good thing". isaid, "well, no, i don't really have any..." "oh, no — more, more." and i'm like, "oh, no!" i think, "ok, i have one more thing. "but they told me not to do it, so i don't really think i should do it," and of course, that was the wrong thing to say. and they said, "you must do it now."

it's like, "ah!" so i say, "it's called blee t." and steven looks at me and i say, "yes. "it's what happens when et comes into a "black neighbourhood in the projects." and so now everybody�*s like, "oh!" so i did it. it's me telling the story of the three kids. they find him and they take him and they take him into the projects. now, they're hiding him from everybody and they give him a gun. and he has a gun. and when his people come to get him, he doesn't recognise them because he's assimilated. and so he mows them all down. and he can't phone home because none of the phones are working. so rhe end all, be all

of all of this is don't make people assimilate, let them share their experience with you. and steven stood up and started applauding. he said, i... he said, "i'd never thought of it that way". "assimilation — someone coming from somewhere else "and having to fit in." he said, "it's one of the best things i think i've ever heard "having to do with et." ironically, subverting the story of one of steven spielberg's best—loved films got you the role in his next movie. well, let's say it helped. celie, no! until you do right by me, everything you think about is going to crumble. don't do it, miss c. don't trade places with

what i've been through. come on, miss celie. let's go to the car. he ain't worth it. who you think you is? you can't cuss nobody. look at you. you're black, you're poor, i you're ugly, you're a woman, you're nothing at all! till you do right by me, everything you even think about gonna fail. you played celie in the color purple... ..a story of struggle and survival set in the southern states... ..in the early part of the 20th century, and it got you an oscar nomination as well. your life must have changed — i mean, tangibly, you must have felt at that moment? well, are you a parent? yeah. you know your life doesn't change unless your kid's life changes. so because you're really still that parent, you can't go out and go do all the stuff that, you know, young hollywood could do. no, i had to put my kid to bed, i had to take care of her,

i had to do all of that. so life changed in that there was more money and we could get a couple more pair of shoes. there was more ability to do more things. i could do great things for my mom, who had done great things for me my whole life, and it helped me get the freedom to be myself and stay myself. and remember i said, had i not been brought in by mike and steven, i would not have had that ability. being brought in between two titans doesn't allow people to question your ability to do your gig. it was just like, "this is who i am." you have now made, i think, around 100 films, the latest of which is till. the body of emmett louis till has been found dead. i need to prepare you. can you bring emmett's black suit? it's how he'd like to be seen.

bo's in no kind of shape to be seen by anyone. i he's injust the right shape. that smell is my son's body reeking of racial hatred. and it's the story of the struggle for justice. emmett till, the young boy who was killed — brutally tortured and killed — in mississippi in 1955, and the mother campaigned forjustice, and you play emmett till�*s grandmother in this film, and you've produced this film as well? what's wrong, mamie? we've never been apart this long. he's just going to see his cousins. it's not a bad thing for him to know where he comes from. chicago is all he needs to know. i don't want him seeing himself the way those people are seen down there. those people like me? even you left mississippi, mama. mamie, bo is growing up. you're going to have to let him go.

this is a story which i know has been a long time in the making — or you've been wanting to make for a long time, at least? i suspect now it's happening at the right time. it is the story of a mother and a son. and this mother made sure that the world saw what these horrible people did to her son because of systemic racism, because they felt they could. they felt they had the right to do this because a 1a—year—old... 14—year—old boys are dumb. theyjust are, they can't help it. they do stupid stuff. and he whistled at a white woman, and it cost him his life. this story is the story of what can happen when people let systemic racism run amok and solidify. we've been looking back over decades of your life and you have done so much. what about the future? what drives you on creatively?

i get bored easily. so there are things that i, you know, that i really want to be able to get to do. directing? no! i always think, "yes, i would like to direct that." you you have to have a certain ability to work with groups of people. this is why i'm not married — i don't do well as a pair. i'm good on my own. yeah, i'm not a good director, but i do like acting, and so i'd like to keep doing that. and i also want to do a horror movie. oh, yeah? yeah! i love horror. but you haven't done one? no! no—one will let me! and i keep saying to people, "who better than me? !" whoopi goldberg, keep on working — so you don't get bored, of course — and thank you so much for sharing your cultural life. thank you! and for podcast episodes of this cultural life,

go to bbc sounds or wherever you get your podcasts. good afternoon. we're about to say goodbye to 2023, and if that for you involves travel plans, you need to keep abreast of the weather forecast, because as we head into the weekend, there's further heavy rain to come, and snow is likely even at lower levels in the far north for a time and a risk of gales, particularly down to the south. it's this area of low pressure. it arrives during saturday, sweeps its way eastwards during the early hours of sunday and leaves a trail of showers to follow. we have seen some showers around today, chiefly across northern ireland and northern england and some making their way through wales, towards the midlands and the south east as we speak. they will continue for a time, but tend to fade a little as we go through the night, and we'll have some clearing skies. still some showers and strong winds into the far north—east of scotland, but here's the first signs of

that heavy rain out to the west. milder weather here, but it could be a bitterly cold, frosty, icy start in sheltered rural areas of scotland. dry and sunny to begin with, but then that cloud and rain will sweep its way steadily north and east. gales starting to pick up into the south—west with a spell of very heavy rain into south—west england, wales and north—west england as we go through the afternoon. it's likely to stay dry through the east midlands, east anglia and south—east england. here, 12 degrees the high. a cooler story with some wintry showers developing. as the temperatures fall away in scotland, at lower levels we could see further disruptive snow through saturday night into the early hours of new year's eve first thing on sunday morning. so here's that low. it will start to push away during sunday and then leave us in quite a showery regime. perhaps new year's eve will be a slightly quieter story. there will be a rash of showers.

there will be some strong, gusty winds down to the south, but those showers will tend to fade away as we go through the day. it certainly will be a slightly quieter story across much of scotland — six or seven degrees here. sunny spells and scattered showers with highs of eight to ten elsewhere. into new year's eve itself, if you are off out and about, it looks likely that it will be a cooler story with a few scattered showers around. the strongest of the winds as you see in the new year down to the south. then on new year's day and into tuesday, it will be a little bit quieter and a little bit cooler. take care.

live from london, this is bbc news. ukraine says at least 18 people have been killed in a massive russian air attack overnight, with explosions reported across the country. as more detail emerges about the attacks on a number of ukrainian cities — nato member poland says it believes a russian rocket crossed its airspace. israel expands its ground offensive into palestinian refugee camps in central gaza, forcing thousands to flee. the family of a good samaritan who died while helping a stranger in sheffield has paid tribute. his family said he devoted his life to helping others. in the top election official in

maine rules that donald trump cannot run for president in the state in the election next year. hello, i'm lucy hockings. russia has launched one of its biggest aerial attacks on ukraine since the war began — killing at least 18 people in a wave of deadly explosions across the country. president zelensky says 114 of 158 missiles and drones fired were shot down by ukrainian defences. ukraine's air force says it has "never seen so many locations targeted simultaneously". cities hit include kyiv, lviv in the west, odesa in the south, and dnipro, kharkiv and zaporizhzhia in eastern ukraine. a maternity hospital and shopping mall were among buildings damaged and destroyed. meanwhile poland says an identified aerial object entered the nato country's airspace at hrubieszow overnight. a polish general says the object, which is likely to have been a russian missile,

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