today, especially in the south of england, that was the scene in guildford, and we have had some bad flooding in and around southampton, no surprise because just north of that, one location has seen a0 millimetres of rain in 12 hours, and thatis millimetres of rain in 12 hours, and that is close to half the rainfall that is close to half the rainfall that would normally be expected in the whole month of january. in the space ofjust 12 hours. rain continues to fall, moving east through the night with the risk of further travel disruption and also really windy around the channel islands and some coast of south—east england. further north and west in which some showers around. temperatures generally above freezing, maybe dropping to freezing in a few locations, but things tomorrow will be slowly improving, some showers in northern and eastern scotland, a bit windy as well, but out to the west, something brighter, and still a few showers but some spells of sunshine and the temperatures will be beginning to drop as well. 6—9 covers it for most

tomorrow and then we are into the weekend, low—pressure loosening its grip and here comes high—pressure, very good news if you are hoping for some drier weather. not necessarily completely dry on saturday, some showers here and there, and fog patches towards the west which could be slow to clear so i'm not promising a completely sunny sky, but we should see some spells of sunshine and temperatures continuing to drop. sunday is likely to be cold steel especially if you get stuck under mist and fog for any length of time, as the winds pick up in the south on monday it will feel cold are still here but it looks mostly dry. a bit of respite from all the rain. thanks. that's it. newsnight is just getting underway over on bbc two, with victoria. but here on bbc one, it's time to join our colleagues for the news where ever you are. have a very good night.

sir keir starmer pitched �*hope�* to voters today — but rishi sunak grabbed the headlines with his �*working assumption�* that the election will be in the second half of this year. tonight, after 1a years in government, we'll ask a conservative mp what his party

would do with another five years in power. meanwhile, the labour leader today promised voters cheaper energy bills, higher growth and hope if his party wins the election. we'll ask labour if it really can be that easy. also tonight... jeffrey epstein—linked names unsealed in us court papers — including prince andrew and bill clinton. we'll tell you what is new and what is significant when we speak to us attorney gloria allred, who represents 20 of epstein�*s alleged victims. and the man behind the day today, alan partridge, the thick of it and new play pandemonium, all about the pandemic — armando ianucci — is here to look ahead with our political panel to a big year for voters in this country. good evening. the prime minister and the man who wants hisjob made pitches to you today. can rishi sunak change his electoral

fortunes over the course of the coming months? well, he seems to have given himself a good few months to do that with the timeframe he talked about today. but it�*s just a �*working assumption�*, the prime minister said. so the election still could be may orjune. can the labour leader, sir keir starmer, win people over with the pitch he put forward today, promising "project hope" in contrast to what he calls the "cynical, declinist vision" of the tory government? we�*ll speak to both labour and the conservatives live in a moment. first, here�*s nick. on his own with a decision that is his alone. and today, some white smoke. my working assumption is we will have a general election in the second half of this year and in the meantime i�*ve got lots that i want to get on with. calm down was the message to anyone banking on a may election. but some wriggle room to keep that option open. 0pposition parties cried "downing street squatter". but an ally of the prime minister strongly defended his approach.

what about the argument that rishi sunak is a bottler? he can go all the way to january next year but all the opinion polls show that people really want to get on with this election. this argument that he is bottling it? you say people want to get on with the election. i think the opposition wants to get on with the election. maybe the media wants to get on with the election. but i think people i speak to in my constituency and further afield actually want some stability. so they want to make sure we are back on to firm ground in terms of the economy. so i don�*t think everyday people are really pushing for an election right now. so there is next year, and obviously an election has to come by january of 2025 but it probably will be the back end of this year, as rishi has said, and i welcome that. but i think we are all in this job to try and get things done and i think rishi sees the opportunity of the next 12 months to get more done and demonstrate he is the right person to lead this country. but has rishi sunak been scrabbling around, criticising 30 years of political failure and then summoning a leader he had implied was a symbol of

that failure, david cameron? i don�*t think so. i think we�*ve got a good team in place. the right leader in place. we�*ve just got to convince the public that rishi is the right leader, too, and that is the job of work over the next 12 months. and myself and my colleagues are very much up for that. it does mean that there is still work to be done to win the public around? there is always work to be done. always so much to do. and many people have had a very difficult time. a focus on election timing, as we were given a flavour of the differing styles of the two candidates for number 10. a prime minister engaging with voters at a youth centre with a rather more mature audience. a challenger delivering a more conventional speech with a defining message. but with respect and service, i also promise this... a politics that treads a little lighter on all of our lives. and a shadow cabinet colleague on hand to explain.

power is put back into the hands of voters with the general election coming and we set out very clearly what a labour decade of national renewal would look like in contrast to the 1a years of failure from the conservatives. and what we saw from keir starmer today, setting out this decade of national renewal, some people are saying he is a radical hiding in plain sight. so who is the real keir starmer? a very cautious figure who doesn�*t want to frighten the horses, or he is going to transform this country in a radical way? as someone in keir starmer�*s shadow cabinet, i can tell you that his missions are ambitious for the country. they are not easy to achieve. he set us very bold targets to turn the country around in the course of the next labour government, if we win, but over a decade of national renewal because we know the problems left from the conservatives are deep and structural. that is very radical. if keir starmer wanted an easier life he wouldn�*t be pledging to deliver such bold promises for the country at the next election. but we all know how to deliver that. we are all fired up and ready to go. we just want the next election to come sooner rather than later

so we can get on with it. he is perceived as a bit dull, isn�*t he? i don�*t think so. my constituents have been saying week in and week out that they are fed up to the back teeth of the conservatives being in government after the last 1a years. it�*s time for change and all of us want that to be a labour government. we can expect opposition parties to make great hay of their new line about the downing street squatter. and the retort to that is, "we have every right to be there for another year." so today we didn�*t learn the date of the election but we certainly know that the campaign is well under way. with a few short words, rishi sunak managed to overshadow keir starmer�*s big speech. labour came back and said, "you are frightened of an election." all of that over a power that is essentially exercised by any prime minister over the timing of an election. quite a nice power to have. but sometimes a bit of a mixed blessing. a prime minister reflecting carefully on his options. showing his hand today or confusing his opponents?

we can now speak to labour�*s thangam debbonaire, shadow secretary of state for culture, media and sport. thank you for being with us. we have a lot to get through on behalf of our viewers. what is the big idea thatis our viewers. what is the big idea that is going to cut through to voters between now and election day from labour? i think that what people will be asking themselves, and we have certainly been doing this when we�*ve been campaigning up and down the country is in 13, 1a years of tory governments, does anyone at all really feel better off? i know the answer we�*ve been getting is no. people feel their wages have gone downhill, their rent or mortgage has gone up, their bills have gone up, the potholes are there in the roads, the potholes are there in the roads, the trains that run on time —— don�*t run on time, and public services are creaking at the edges. what we are promising as we will take a decade of national renewal to start fixing those problems right at the core. we

know people are struggling on nhs waiting lists, spending ages trying to get treatment, trying to get diagnosis. we will do something about that straightaway. we�*ll change... about that straightaway. we'll chan . e. .. ~ about that straightaway. we'll chance...~ about that straightaway. we'll chance... ., about that straightaway. we'll chance...~ ., about that straightaway. we'll chance... ., change... will you? you say you will do something _ change... will you? you say you will do something straightaway... - change... will you? you say you will do something straightaway... to - change... will you? you say you will. do something straightaway... to make sure we will cut _ do something straightaway... to make sure we will cut waiting _ do something straightaway... to make sure we will cut waiting lists. - sure we will cut waiting lists. white back straightaway, you say. labour is not promising voters any more money to fix nhs or education in the short—term. —— you say. if you�*re not promising to six things when you�*re criticising the tories are breaking them? —— if you�*re not promising to fix things. we are breaking them? -- if you're not promising to fix things.— promising to fix things. we are promising _ promising to fix things. we are promising the _ promising to fix things. we are promising the power— promising to fix things. we are promising the power to - promising to fix things. we are promising the power to bring l promising to fix things. we are - promising the power to bring down those waiting lists. we are going to abolish the non—dogs for the super—rich to ensure people who work here, live here, pay their taxes here. using that money, that�*s already there that the super—rich should be paying taxes with, we will use that money to pay to spend £1.1 billion in bringing 2 million more

appointments and operations to the nhs each year, evenings and weekends, to make sure we get those waiting lists down. so we already know how we are going to pay for that. we know as well that some of the rest of that money that we get from abolishing that super—rich tax break, we will use on introducing breakfast clubs for every child in every primary school across the country, to make sure that children get to school well fed, that they have got carried just before school which for many parents is what makes the difference between being able to take up a job and not. —— that they have got care before school. those of the concrete difference is that people will see that we will spend money, we have already identified and we know how we are going to do it. ,, ., . ., and we know how we are going to do it. keir starmer claimed today that the conservatives _ it. keir starmer claimed today that the conservatives had _ it. keir starmer claimed today that the conservatives had no - it. keir starmer claimed today that the conservatives had no practicall the conservatives had no practical achievements to points towards after almost 1a years. he also said in his speech today that politics is not a game. if you�*re not prepared to give credit to the conservatives first of they have done that have helped people, then you too are guilty of playing games, are due? which is what keir starmer claimed he was

standing up against. what what keir starmer claimed he was standing up against.— standing up against. what i am heafina standing up against. what i am hearing from — standing up against. what i am hearing from people _ standing up against. what i am hearing from people up - standing up against. what i am hearing from people up and - standing up against. what i am i hearing from people up and down standing up against. what i am - hearing from people up and down this country is that they feel that the tories have done nothing for them. when i ask people, and i do this regularly, just tell me honestly, is there anything at all that you can point to that you think is better about your life after 1a years of tory governments, and time and again, people say no. not only are things not better, they are worse. they are worse. 0k, let me point out... if i may... sir keir starmer said today, voters can reject pointless populist gestures. was furlough a pointless populist gesture? indie furlough a pointless populist aesture? ~ ., furlough a pointless populist aesture? ~ . ., ~ ., :: gesture? we are talking about 40 ears, gesture? we are talking about 40 years. though. — gesture? we are talking about 40 years, though, victoria, - gesture? we are talking about 40 years, though, victoria, the - years, though, victoria, the problems were already there before covid. —— 1a years. problems were already there before covid. -- 14 years.— covid. -- 14 years. what asking, though- -- _ covid. -- 14 years. what asking, though- -- we — covid. -- 14 years. what asking, though... we called _ covid. -- 14 years. what asking, though... we called for - covid. -- 14 years. what asking, | though... we called for furlough. they actually _ though... we called for furlough. they actually had _ though... we called for furlough. they actually had to _ though... we called for furlough. they actually had to be _ though... we called for furlough. they actually had to be pushed . they actually had to be pushed there. it was the tuc at the cbi and there. it was the tuc at the cbi and the labour party in parliament pushing them furlough tops so you would agree that was a practical

achievement? == would agree that was a practical achievement?— would agree that was a practical achievement? , ., ., ., achievement? -- so you would agree that is practical achievement? - achievement? -- so you would agree that is practical achievement? it - that is practical achievement? it was a practical achievement that they had to be pushed to do, that they had to be pushed to do, that they had to be pushed to do and of course i am pleased they did because it helped people make ends meet is time of national crisis but it�*s not something that can point and say they feel better off, when people tell me the trains are cancelled with him everyday and they cannot get work and that means they are risking being able to hold onto theirjobs. —— cancelled routinely. that�*s what people notice after 1a years of tory rule. that's what people notice after 14 years of tory rule.— years of tory rule. you're not promising — years of tory rule. you're not promising to _ years of tory rule. you're not promising to fix _ years of tory rule. you're not promising to fix trains. - years of tory rule. you're not promising to fix trains. let i years of tory rule. you're not l promising to fix trains. let me years of tory rule. you're not - promising to fix trains. let me ask about taxes, you regularly say they are too high, sir keir starmer says he wants to fight the election on the economy, the iss as you know says that parliament had been the biggest tax—raising parliament in his racing history. —— the ifs. what will be different about the tax burden under a labour government? irate burden under a labour government? - want a government that is tax fair and it�*s working people who are paying the price for tory tax poses.

what we would do... you is a clear difference. we think that having a tax break for the super—rich is just not on when working people are struggling... not on when working people are struggling- - -_ not on when working people are struggling- - -— not on when working people are stru~lin~... ., ., , �* ., struggling... that doesn't mean the tax burden changes. _ struggling... that doesn't mean the tax burden changes. it _ struggling... that doesn't mean the tax burden changes. it does - struggling... that doesn't mean the tax burden changes. it does not - struggling... that doesn't mean the l tax burden changes. it does not back it means the — tax burden changes. it does not back it means the tax _ tax burden changes. it does not back it means the tax burden _ tax burden changes. it does not back it means the tax burden on _ tax burden changes. it does not back it means the tax burden on those - it means the tax burden on those super—rich will change and that will pay for those extra operations. we will also eliminate the vat tax break that there is for private schools and we will use that money to invest in state education. that�*s a clear commitment to switch the way that money comes in, and it will change the tax system.- that money comes in, and it will change the tax system. what, no playing games. _ change the tax system. what, no playing games. will _ change the tax system. what, no playing games, will the - change the tax system. what, no playing games, will the tax - change the tax system. what, no | playing games, will the tax burden be any lower for most people, for the majority of average earners, under a labour government? keir starmer said _ undera labour government? lie: " starmer said today undera labour government? ifle: " starmer said today that undera labour government? if;2 " starmer said today that that is what he wants for working people but first we have got to grow the economy. we�*ve also got to get through possibly, according to that weak prime minister we are still stuck with, possibly another 12 months of tory misrule, we have no idea what they�*re going to do in the

budget in march, it could be incredibly damaging for the country, so what we�*re going to do is make sure we focus on what will grow the economy, fund public services and ultimately allow us to have a tax system that is fair and rewards hard work, which is what keir starmer said today that he wanted to be able to do, but it would be irresponsible of us at this stage to make promises we don�*t know how we�*re going to keep. we will do so when we know how we are going to pay for things also thank you very much for talking to our viewers tonight, thangam debbonaire. let�*s talk now to the conservative mp bob seely again. a lot to get through, mr seely, in limited time, as always. thank you for being with us. how would you describe the state of the country after 1a years of conservative government? arnie country after 14 years of conservative government? ~ . ., conservative government? we have had a ve , ve conservative government? we have had a very. very tough _ conservative government? we have had a very. very tough you — conservative government? we have had a very, very tough you use _ conservative government? we have had a very, very tough you use because - a very, very tough you use because of covid, _ a very, very tough you use because of covid, the — a very, very tough you use because of covid, the inflationary shocks of the war. _ of covid, the inflationary shocks of the war. -- — of covid, the inflationary shocks of the war, —— few years, but if you're looking _ the war, —— few years, but if you're looking for— the war, —— few years, but if you're looking for achievements we have brought— looking for achievements we have brought in— looking for achievements we have brought in the phonics reading system — brought in the phonics reading system which has made our kid some of the _ system which has made our kid some of the best— system which has made our kid some of the best readers in the world, interest—free schools, but at the

academy — interest—free schools, but at the academy road, led the nation through covid, _ academy road, led the nation through covid, led _ academy road, led the nation through covid, led the vaccine process and then gave — covid, led the vaccine process and then gave that vaccine to the rest of the _ then gave that vaccine to the rest of the world, brought in ground breaking — of the world, brought in ground breaking laws to clean up the environment, the environment act in 2021, _ environment, the environment act in 2021, legalised gay marriage, outlawed cursor control, but in modern — outlawed cursor control, but in modern slavery. if this stuff is a waste _ modern slavery. if this stuff is a waste of— modern slavery. if this stuff is a waste of time that i don't have much to say— waste of time that i don't have much to say to _ waste of time that i don't have much to say to either keir starmer or thangam — to say to either keir starmer or thangam debbonaire. —— coercive control _ thangam debbonaire. —— coercive control i— thangam debbonaire. —— coercive control. i could say more but i suspect — control. i could say more but i suspect you have other questions, we've _ suspect you have other questions, we've had — suspect you have other questions, we've had a — suspect you have other questions, we've had a busy ia suspect you have other questions, we've had a busy 14 years and we look— we've had a busy 14 years and we look forward to another five. what would ou look forward to another five. what would you do _ look forward to another five. what would you do with _ look forward to another five. transit would you do with another look forward to another five. wisgt would you do with another five? look forward to another five. what l would you do with another five? we will bring down taxes because everyone knows they are too high... white _ everyone knows they are too high... white like _ everyone knows they are too high... white like you're not going to bring down _ white like you're not going to bring down taxes, forgiveness, you're not going _ down taxes, forgiveness, you're not going to, _ down taxes, forgiveness, you're not going to, -- — down taxes, forgiveness, you're not going to. --_ going to, -- you're not going to brina going to, -- you're not going to bring down _ going to, -- you're not going to bring down taxes, _ going to, -- you're not going to bring down taxes, we _ going to, -- you're not going to bring down taxes, we saw - going to, -- you're not going to bring down taxes, we saw from | going to, -- you're not going to . bring down taxes, we saw from the autumn statement, please let me finish, the tax burden will continue continue to rise in the next parliament.— continue to rise in the next parliament. we have set the direction _ parliament. we have set the direction where _ parliament. we have set the direction where we - parliament. we have set the direction where we are - parliament. we have set the direction where we are nowl parliament. we have set the - direction where we are now beginning to cut _ direction where we are now beginning to cut taxes. — direction where we are now beginning to cut taxes, and you will... the tax burden _ to cut taxes, and you will... the tax burden is _ to cut taxes, and you will... ii2 tax burden is continuing to to cut taxes, and you will... ti2 tax burden is continuing to rise, you have to be straightforward with

people about that. ila. you have to be straightforward with people about that.— you have to be straightforward with people about that. no, absolutely, i am not going _ people about that. no, absolutely, i am not going to _ people about that. no, absolutely, i am not going to do _ people about that. no, absolutely, i am not going to do what _ people about that. no, absolutely, i am not going to do what keir - people about that. no, absolutely, i. am not going to do what keir starmer or thangam _ am not going to do what keir starmer or thangam debbonaire hasjust done now and _ or thangam debbonaire hasjust done now and talking absolute nonsense to you. now and talking absolute nonsense to you the _ now and talking absolute nonsense to you the tax — now and talking absolute nonsense to you. the tax burden is absolutely continuing — you. the tax burden is absolutely continuing to rise, what i am saying is we _ continuing to rise, what i am saying is we are _ continuing to rise, what i am saying is we are setting a new direction, the reason — is we are setting a new direction, the reason why the tax rates have risen _ the reason why the tax rates have risen so _ the reason why the tax rates have risen so much is because we spent 350 billion — risen so much is because we spent 350 billion looking after people in covid, _ 350 billion looking after people in covid, unfurlough, and 93 billion to -et covid, unfurlough, and 93 billion to get through the cost of living. | get through the cost of living. i understand that... we - get through the cost of living. i i understand that... we spent half get through the cost of living. i - understand that... we spent half £1 trillion... understand that. .. we spent half £1 trillion... let— understand that... we spent half £1 trillion... let me _ understand that... we spent half £1 trillion... let me finish, _ understand that... we spent half £1 trillion... let me finish, please. - trillion... let me finish, please. we spent — trillion... let me finish, please. we spent in _ trillion... let me finish, please. we spent in 2019 that we didn't think— we spent in 2019 that we didn't think we — we spent in 2019 that we didn't think we were going to have to pay, that's— think we were going to have to pay, that's why— think we were going to have to pay, that's why taxes went up so much, that's— that's why taxes went up so much, that's why— that's why taxes went up so much, that's why we are setting a new direction, — that's why we are setting a new direction, we are bringing down taxes, _ direction, we are bringing down taxes. it— direction, we are bringing down taxes. it is— direction, we are bringing down taxes, it is our aim to do so, we haven't— taxes, it is our aim to do so, we haven't yet— taxes, it is our aim to do so, we haven't yet but there is a clear dividing — haven't yet but there is a clear dividing line between what we are trying _ dividing line between what we are trying to _ dividing line between what we are trying to do and what the labour party— trying to do and what the labour party is— trying to do and what the labour party is trying to do. there isn't touring — party is trying to do. there isn't touring the _ party is trying to do. there isn't touring the country who doesn't want touring the country who doesn't want to bring _ touring the country who doesn't want to bring taxes down. for labour they will happily— to bring taxes down. for labour they will happily push them further up so that is— will happily push them further up so that is going to be one of the big dividing — that is going to be one of the big dividing lines between now and the next election, we are going to be pushing _ next election, we are going to be pushing to — next election, we are going to be pushing to get the tax burden down,

i pushing to get the tax burden down, i would _ pushing to get the tax burden down, i would love to see us get rid of national— i would love to see us get rid of national insurance and next year or two if— national insurance and next year or two if we _ national insurance and next year or two if we get the chance after the next election, we should abolish that tax— next election, we should abolish that tax entirely and then start bringing — that tax entirely and then start bringing tax down aggressively for people _ bringing tax down aggressively for people and cutting spending of the state because productivity in the private _ state because productivity in the private sector is going up and creating — private sector is going up and creating jobs and wealth, productivity in the government sector— productivity in the government sector sadly is coming down and there's— sector sadly is coming down and there's lots we should be doing to actually— there's lots we should be doing to actually improve the situation there but actually improve the situation there hut that— actually improve the situation there hut that is— actually improve the situation there but that is a clear dividing line between — but that is a clear dividing line between us wanting to bring taxes down _ between us wanting to bring taxes down and — between us wanting to bring taxes down and the labour party who continue — down and the labour party who continue to push taxes up and at their— continue to push taxes up and at their highest burden since world war ii. �* .. , ., their highest burden since world war ii. because of the conservatives in government _ ii. because of the conservatives in government for _ ii. because of the conservatives in government for 14 _ ii. because of the conservatives in government for 14 years! - ii. because of the conservatives in government for 14 years! that's i ii. because of the conservatives in i government for 14 years! that's why, government for 1a years! that�*s why, it�*s nothing to do with labour, and what you�*ve just talked about... ila. what you've 'ust talked about... no, no, no, what you've 'ust talked about... no, what you've just talked about... no, no. no. no. no. _ what you've just talked about... no, no, no, no, no, no, _ what you've just talked about... no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry, victoria, sorry, _ no, no, no, no, no, sorry, victoria, sorry, it's— no, no, no, no, no, sorry, victoria, sorry, it's because of the £450 union— sorry, it's because of the £450 billion or— sorry, it's because of the £450 billion or so that we have spent in covid _ billion or so that we have spent in covid and — billion or so that we have spent in covid and the cost of living crisis sparked — covid and the cost of living crisis sparked partly by covid. | sparked partly by covid. i understand that. and - sparked partly by covid. i i understand that. and partly sparked partly by covid. i - understand that. and partly by the ukraine were. _ understand that. and partly by the ukraine were. they _ understand that. and partly by the ukraine were. they understand - understand that. and partly by the | ukraine were. they understand the reasons why _ ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it _ ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it is _ ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it is high _

ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it is high but - ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it is high but if - ukraine were. they understand the reasons why it is high but if you - reasons why it is high but if you say we are being taxes down when it will continue to rise and will do into the next parliament whoever wins, that is not straightforward. kevin hollinrake said to our political editor in his film a few months ago, and he has you know is rishi sunak i like a close ally, he said, the conservatives have got to convince the public that rishi sunak is the right leader, it�*s a bit late, isn�*t it? we have an election to fight and we have a _ we have an election to fight and we have a clear— we have an election to fight and we have a clear choice, we are bringing down _ have a clear choice, we are bringing down inflation on the economy is growing. — down inflation on the economy is growing, compared to the eurozone which _ growing, compared to the eurozone which is _ growing, compared to the eurozone which is going into a prolonged recession— which is going into a prolonged recession this year and may be longer~ — recession this year and may be longer. we are doing much better at stopping _ longer. we are doing much better at stopping small boats than any other country— stopping small boats than any other country in _ stopping small boats than any other country in europe, down 30%, not enough. _ country in europe, down 30%, not enough. in — country in europe, down 30%, not enough, in italy and elsewhere the illegal— enough, in italy and elsewhere the illegal crossings are up by nearly 100%~ _ illegal crossings are up by nearly 100%~ so— illegal crossings are up by nearly 100%. so the choice we are going to have as _ 100%. so the choice we are going to have as a _ 100%. so the choice we are going to

have as a government that is righting _ have as a government that is righting the ship after covid and the price — righting the ship after covid and the price shock and the inflation shock— the price shock and the inflation shock of— the price shock and the inflation shock of the war, getting the country— shock of the war, getting the country back, getting the economy back country back, getting the economy hack and _ country back, getting the economy back and inflation down and living standards — back and inflation down and living standards up and a labour party that wants— standards up and a labour party that wants to _ standards up and a labour party that wants to spend 28 billion in tax and spend _ wants to spend 28 billion in tax and spend and — wants to spend 28 billion in tax and spend and i— wants to spend 28 billion in tax and spend and i was it yesterday... we don't spend and i was it yesterday... don't have the spend and i was it yesterday... 2 don't have the time. if i may. don�*t have the time. if i may. looking at the various things rishi sunak has tried to do to change the dial that he pushed back the date for petrol and diesel cars to be banned and he ditched much of hs2 and the king speech on the autumn statement, nothing he does seems to make any difference. 0n newsnight last night the woman who co—wrote the conservative 2019 manifesto said that in her view there is nothing he can do to change your electoral fortunes. 0k. can do to change your electoral fortunes. ok. you must be worried about that?—

about that? look, i was going to lead ou about that? look, i was going to lead you to _ about that? look, i was going to lead you to my _ about that? look, i was going to lead you to my remark _ about that? look, i was going to lead you to my remark that - about that? look, i was going to lead you to my remark that i - about that? look, i was going to| lead you to my remark that i was about _ lead you to my remark that i was about to — lead you to my remark that i was about to make, i was canvassing yesterday. — about to make, i was canvassing yesterday, knocking $137 and i spoke to 37 people and some are still with the conservative party and some conservative voters who are fed up with things — conservative voters who are fed up with things but out of those 37 people. — with things but out of those 37 people, five or six so the answer was either— people, five or six so the answer was either keir starmer the labour party— was either keir starmer the labour party because if you ask people what the tories _ party because if you ask people what the tories stand for and are we delivering, _ the tories stand for and are we delivering, you will get a mixed opinion— delivering, you will get a mixed opinion from some but there is still a reasonable number of people who think that _ a reasonable number of people who think that the country is on the right— think that the country is on the right path _ think that the country is on the right path. you ask what keir starmer— right path. you ask what keir starmer stands for, people don't have _ starmer stands for, people don't have a _ starmer stands for, people don't have a clue. starmer stands for, people don't have a clue-— have a clue. i will leave it with that. have a clue. i will leave it with that- thank — have a clue. i will leave it with that. thank you. _ have a clue. i will leave it with that. thank you. at _ have a clue. i will leave it with that. thank you. at some - have a clue. i will leave it with| that. thank you. at some point labour that. thank you. at some point labour will _ that. thank you. at some point labour will be _ that. thank you. at some point labour will be asked _ that. thank you. at some point labour will be asked about - that. thank you. at some point | labour will be asked about their beliefs — labour will be asked about their beliefs and they will be found wanting — beliefs and they will be found wanting because they don't have any. that is— wanting because they don't have any. that is a _ wanting because they don't have any. that is a tiny— wanting because they don't have any. that is a tiny sample but thank you for your non—scientific experiments of knocking on the doors in your area.

a little later we�*ll be talking to armando iannucci and the rest of our political panel about what lies ahead for you in this election year. the names are familiar and high profile — prince andrew, bill clinton, donald trump. newly—released documents from a us court detail the connections of the dead paedopohile jeffrey epstein — many of which have been reported in the media previously. the disclosure in a federal court in new york come from a defamation suit filed some years ago by virginia giuffre against ghislaine maxwell, who�*s been sentenced to 20 years in prison. guiffre accused epstein and maxwell of trafficking her to powerful people, including prince andrew, in the early 2000s when she was a teenager. epstein�*s vip circle stayed close to him — even after he pleaded guilty in 2008 to procuring and soliciting a minorfor prostitution. he took his own life in 2019 while awaiting trial. the inclusion of many of those named in the documents does not necessarily imply any illegal activity related to epstein.

bill clinton has said he "knew nothing" about epstein�*s crimes. prince andrew denied ms guifree�*s allegations and paid her 12 million to settle a case. the documents contain no alleged wrongdoing by mr trump. let�*s speak now to us attorney gloria allred, who represents 20 of epstein�*s alleged victims. thank you for talking to us. ghislaine maxwell is in jail and epstein took his life in jail, ghislaine maxwell is in jail and epstein took his life injail, does the release of these documents mean others could be prosecuted? i think it is unlikely. _ others could be prosecuted? i think it is unlikely. i _ others could be prosecuted? i think it is unlikely, i guess _ others could be prosecuted? i think it is unlikely, i guess it _ others could be prosecuted? i think it is unlikely, i guess it is _ it is unlikely, i guess it is possible. the reason i say that i think it is unlikely is the prosecutors have known about what the evidence is for against any of the evidence is for against any of the names released for the very long time. this release is not news to them. they thoroughly investigated

them. they thoroughly investigated the case before they filed it against miss maxwell and by the way, her attorney said that so many women have been abused and only one woman has been prosecuted, convicted. and none of the powerful men have. actually, jeffrey epstein was being prosecuted and i was at the last hearing that he was at before his unfortunate death. so he was being prosecuted. but in any event, i think it is unlikely that anyone else will be prosecuted but it is important for the public to know who might have enabled jeffrey epstein, a child sex abuser who sex trafficked underage girls, and the importance of knowing who was in his circle is not only because some of them may or may not have been

accused but also, use the fact that he was with rich, powerful and famous men as a way to date and draw in the child sex victims and the aduu in the child sex victims and the adult sex victims, to say, i know all of these people, they come to dinner with me or to my island for my home in newark or palm beach, or saintjames island, and i can get them to help you get an education or a career in fashion or the entertainment industry. and so he used that to draw in his victims, who became his prey. tqm. used that to draw in his victims, who became his prey.— who became his prey. ok. so essentially — who became his prey. ok. so essentially it _ who became his prey. ok. so essentially it sounds - who became his prey. ok. so essentially it sounds like - who became his prey. ok. so essentially it sounds like you | who became his prey. ok. so . essentially it sounds like you are saying enablers will get away with it. and in the end there is one person injail. who isjulie maxwell. that is it? i

person injail. who is julie maxwell. that is it?- person injail. who is julie maxwell. that is it? i will also say that there has _ maxwell. that is it? i will also say that there has been _ maxwell. that is it? i will also say that there has been a _ maxwell. that is it? i will also say that there has been a measure . maxwell. that is it? i will also say that there has been a measure of| that there has been a measure of accountability to some extent for many of the victims who have been able to apply for and receive some compensation, not that any amount of funds could ever compensate a victim for being sexually abused, but it is some accountability and that will help them and there will be another fund for many who will need mental health help because whatjeffrey epstein did was dangerous and was harmful to children and adults, both emotionally and in many cases physically as well. so they should be compensated. i always considered compensation a form of accountability and some of the money comes from banks who provided the

monetary loans to jeffrey epstein comes from banks who provided the monetary loans tojeffrey epstein so that he could continue to sex traffic. and some of it from the estate ofjeffrey epstein. so that is some justice. estate ofjeffrey epstein. so that is somejustice. but estate ofjeffrey epstein. so that is some justice. but not the total justice that victims deserve, total justice that victims deserve, total justice would be that it never had happened and something close to justice would have been trials where we could know the truth and nothing but the truth. but if course there has only been one of those. and then there was the settlement for virginia. and i am glad she file that case against miss maxwell and as a result we learnt a lot and we will be learning more as more documents are released in the future. . ~' , ., , documents are released in the future. ., ,, , . ., documents are released in the future. ., , . ., future. thank you very much for your time this evening _ future. thank you very much for your time this evening and _ future. thank you very much for your time this evening and for _ future. thank you very much for your time this evening and for talking - future. thank you very much for your time this evening and for talking to l time this evening and for talking to us. thank you. 0k, we�*ve got a political panel for you this evening after a busy politics day. cat neilan, the political editor at tortoise media. stephen bush, associate editor and columnist

at the financial times. and ryan shorthouse, founder and executive chair of bright blue, an independent think—tank which he says is for promoting liberal conservatism. first, though, writer and satirist armando ianucci is here — the man behind the day today, alan partridge and the thick of it. right now he has a play on in london called pandemonium, satirising the government�*s response to the pandemic. it�*s on at london 5 soho theatre, and obviously he is going to be watching political events closely this year. what reaction are you getting? fantastic, they say they find it funny but also quite emotional. it is reallyjust taking you through the events in a slightly heightened style and there is no grand argument or polemic, it isjust style and there is no grand argument or polemic, it is just a way at this time to have a sort of cathartic re—expression of the events that happened. i5 re-expression of the events that ha ened. . re-expression of the events that happened-— re-expression of the events that hauened. , ., �* , happened. is it cathartic? because ou miaht happened. is it cathartic? because you might think. — happened. is it cathartic? because you might think, it _ happened. is it cathartic? because you might think, it is _ happened. is it cathartic? because you might think, it is too - happened. is it cathartic? because you might think, it is too soon - happened. is it cathartic? because you might think, it is too soon to l you might think, it is too soon to be laughing... you might think, it is too soon to be laughing---— you might think, it is too soon to be laughing... you might think, it is too soon to be lau~ahin... . ., ,

be laughing... some well and that is a fine tightrope _ be laughing... some well and that is a fine tightrope because _ be laughing... some well and that is a fine tightrope because i _ be laughing... some well and that is a fine tightrope because i think - a fine tightrope because i think everyone had their own private story to tell what happened but also commonly, even though we were locked away in separate rooms, we lived through what was on the screen and we were watching the events unfold nationally. and then the fallout from it, the stuff we did not know at the time, about the parties and the chaos that happened the following year. it is the comedy that comes from looking at what was going on behind the number 10 closed doors and then the humanity, i hope, comes from seeing how this impacted on the rest of the country. if rare comes from seeing how this impacted on the rest of the country.— on the rest of the country. if we as a country were _ on the rest of the country. if we as a country were faced _ on the rest of the country. if we as a country were faced with - on the rest of the country. if we as a country were faced with a - on the rest of the country. if we as a country were faced with a similar scenario again, the government instructing us how to live our lives, would you do what they say? i would like to hope so. but i am not sure we would. because given what happened over partygate and the breaking of the rules and so on, our

trust, not that there was much of it, but at least when the pandemic happened, we knew it was a nightmare for whoever was in charge. nobody had the right answer and we were not expecting that. but we were expecting that. but we were expecting them to give it their best and give it a go. and put all of their energies and focus into what was going on. so when we heard that the prime minister was away writing the prime minister was away writing the book when the cobra meeting is a happening that he was indecisive, the rules they were setting were not being followed and then the attempts to cover up the fact, that fundamental contract we make with the government in times of crisis was broken. and that is very hard to repair. was broken. and that is very hard to re air. . . r' was broken. and that is very hard to reair. . ., ,~' i. was broken. and that is very hard to reair. . ., i. ., was broken. and that is very hard to re air. ., ., ., ., repair. can i ask you about work? and whether _ repair. can i ask you about work? and whether you _ repair. can i ask you about work? and whether you think _ repair. can i ask you about work? and whether you think whatever i and whether you think whatever you want to call it, do you call it woke? does that inhibit you? ila.

woke? does that inhibit you? no, you must not confuse _ woke? does that inhibit you? no, you must not confuse the _ woke? does that inhibit you? no, you must not confuse the fact _ woke? does that inhibit you? no, you must not confuse the fact that - must not confuse the fact that people are not self censoring themselves because they are afraid of offending people, what is wrong with being offended? your beliefs and values should be able to withstand criticism or even just a joke. you should be able to stand up to that and what we are doing is we are retreating into our positions and getting more risk averse, distancing ourselves from people who hold an opposing point of view and therefore we do not engage in argument any more and discussion. we would rather surround ourselves with people who agree with us. and part of anything that is provocative, whether it is comedy or drama or whatever, is about trying to provoke those arguments again. i think the people who most use that phrase, woke, are the ones who are themselves most censorious, there is authoritarianism creeping into government with people telling us what we can and cannot do, and even

if we looked like we might have some glue in our backpack we could get arrested. and i think you should always look at people who make the criticisms, look to see with their own behaviour is because very often it is a kind of reflection of what it is a kind of reflection of what it is a kind of reflection of what it is they�*re doing themselves but which they do not want to see. before we bring in the others, let me ask you about the so—called snowflake generation. i have two teenagers, do you think they are snowflakes? are they offended by the comedy that we see on netflix or tiktok? i comedy that we see on netflix or tiktok? ~' comedy that we see on netflix or tiktok? ~ ., comedy that we see on netflix or tiktok? ~ . ., ., , ., tiktok? i think that generation you talk about think _ tiktok? i think that generation you talk about think long _ tiktok? i think that generation you talk about think long and _ tiktok? i think that generation you talk about think long and hard - tiktok? i think that generation you | talk about think long and hard about issues and passionately engage with issues and passionately engage with issues and passionately engage with issues and are engaged in beliefs and they are confronted with existential questions that we were not in our generation, they wake up to headlines every day about the

planet in danger, it is notjust the war, it is a very existence of humanity. and therefore you get passionate about views and you get very frustrated if you are not hearing those views being debated avidly. lute hearing those views being debated avidl . ~ ., ., hearing those views being debated avidl . ~ ., ,, avidly. we good evening, thank you for aaivin avidly. we good evening, thank you for giving up _ avidly. we good evening, thank you for giving up your— avidly. we good evening, thank you for giving up your evening - avidly. we good evening, thank you for giving up your evening to - avidly. we good evening, thank you for giving up your evening to be - for giving up your evening to be with us tonight. ryan, when do you think the election will be? i with us tonight. ryan, when do you think the election will be?- think the election will be? i think it will be november _ think the election will be? i think it will be november or _ think the election will be? i think it will be november or decemberj it will be november or december because — it will be november or december because that is ultimately the default. — because that is ultimately the default, in fact the prime minister should _ default, in fact the prime minister should be — default, in fact the prime minister should be saying that's the default, five years _ should be saying that's the default, five years from the 2019 election. and i_ five years from the 2019 election. and i think— five years from the 2019 election. and i think rishi sunak wants more time. _ and i think rishi sunak wants more time. he _ and i think rishi sunak wants more time, he wants to show that the economy— time, he wants to show that the economy is— time, he wants to show that the economy is turning a corner and the forecast _ economy is turning a corner and the forecast seemed to suggest inflation will come _ forecast seemed to suggest inflation will come down, interest rates are likely— will come down, interest rates are likely to _ will come down, interest rates are likely to come down, which will help particularly — likely to come down, which will help particularly mortgage holders, and taxes _ particularly mortgage holders, and taxes are _ particularly mortgage holders, and taxes are also likely to come down a little as— taxes are also likely to come down a little as well. and i think... that the tax burden, _ little as well. and i think... that the tax burden, as _ little as well. and i think... that the tax burden, as we _ little as well. and i think... trisgt the tax burden, as we discussed with bob seely out there, is continuing

to rise. ., . . . bob seely out there, is continuing to rise. ., . ., ., ., to rise. correct, and relative to many years _ to rise. correct, and relative to many years ago _ to rise. correct, and relative to many years ago the _ to rise. correct, and relative to many years ago the tax - to rise. correct, and relative to many years ago the tax burden i to rise. correct, and relative to l many years ago the tax burden is higher— many years ago the tax burden is higher but— many years ago the tax burden is higher but relative to the more immediate term it is coming down, and i_ immediate term it is coming down, and i think— immediate term it is coming down, and i think the government is likely to make _ and i think the government is likely to make more progress in both legal immigration because of some of the measures— immigration because of some of the measures they have announced particularly around dependents, but also on _ particularly around dependents, but also on irregular migration as well. so i also on irregular migration as well. so i think— also on irregular migration as well. so i think he — also on irregular migration as well. so i think he wants to show more success— so i think he wants to show more success and — so i think he wants to show more success and at the end of the day, he is _ success and at the end of the day, he is a _ success and at the end of the day, he is a marriage crash, he believes if you _ he is a marriage crash, he believes if you work— he is a marriage crash, he believes if you work harder, he will show people — if you work harder, he will show people that he is right for the job. -- he _ people that he is right for the job. -- he is— people that he is right for the job. -- he is a — people that he is right for the job. —— he is a meritocrat. ithink it people that he is right for the job. —— he is a meritocrat. i think it is probably— —— he is a meritocrat. i think it is probably too _ —— he is a meritocrat. i think it is probably too late, the mood has changed — probably too late, the mood has changed so aggressively against the tories _ changed so aggressively against the tories. ., ., ., _, changed so aggressively against the tories. ., ., ., . ., tories. you wanted to come in there? will he not actually _ tories. you wanted to come in there? will he not actually get _ tories. you wanted to come in there? will he not actually get penalised - will he not actually get penalised for dragging _ will he not actually get penalised for dragging it— will he not actually get penalised for dragging it out? _ will he not actually get penalised for dragging it out? will- will he not actually get penalised for dragging it out? will they. for dragging it out? will they not come _ for dragging it out? will they not come a _ for dragging it out? will they not come a point _ for dragging it out? will they not come a point of— for dragging it out? will they not come a point of critical _ for dragging it out? will they not come a point of critical mass - for dragging it out? will they not come a point of critical mass of i come a point of critical mass of frustration _ come a point of critical mass of frustration and _ come a point of critical mass of frustration and just— come a point of critical mass of frustration and just announced i come a point of critical mass of - frustration and just announced that it is carrying — frustration and just announced that it is carrying on. _ frustration and just announced that it is carrying on, that _ frustration and just announced that it is carrying on, that it— frustration and just announced that it is carrying on, that it will- frustration and just announced that it is carrying on, that it will have i it is carrying on, that it will have a negative — it is carrying on, that it will have a negative impact? _ it is carrying on, that it will have a negative impact? if— it is carrying on, that it will have a negative impact?— it is carrying on, that it will have a negative impact? if you were a tory strategist — a negative impact? if you were a tory strategist who _ a negative impact? if you were a tory strategist who thought - a negative impact? if you were a tory strategist who thought it i a negative impact? if you were a. tory strategist who thought it was over then — tory strategist who thought it was over then actually you would advise rishi sunak to go as soon as possible _ rishi sunak to go as soon as possible because the so anti—tory, the longer— possible because the so anti—tory, the longer you leave it, the longer it's likely—

the longer you leave it, the longer it's likely to go on, but if you're a strategist— it's likely to go on, but if you're a strategist who thought they were still in _ a strategist who thought they were still in their transitory victory, you would _ still in their transitory victory, you would say go as long as possible to show— you would say go as long as possible to show you — you would say go as long as possible to show you can turn things around. -- still— to show you can turn things around. -- still a _ to show you can turn things around. —— still a chance of victory. cat to show you can turn things around. -- still a chance of victory.- -- still a chance of victory. cat do ou -- still a chance of victory. cat do you think — -- still a chance of victory. cat do you think this _ -- still a chance of victory. cat do you think this was _ -- still a chance of victory. cat do you think this was to _ -- still a chance of victory. cat do you think this was to puncture i -- still a chance of victory. cat do | you think this was to puncture keir starmer�*s ...? it you think this was to puncture keir starmer's ...?— starmer's ...? it does seem like that, it reminds _ starmer's ...? it does seem like that, it reminds me _ starmer's ...? it does seem like that, it reminds me of, - starmer's ...? it does seem like that, it reminds me of, we i starmer's ...? it does seem like that, it reminds me of, we were| that, it reminds me of, we were talking about it before we came on, it reminded me of breaking the convention there, the conservatives repeatedly went out on the airwaves during labour�*s party conference to talk about what was happening in israel, no doubt an important thing, but it did have the added benefit of the conservatives of knocking the labour party conference of the agenda a bit. the problem i think keir starmer has and he was articulating it today in the nuanced approach he was trying to take in terms of not wanting to tread heavily on people�*s shoulders, not wanting to intrude, trying to make politics a bit more quiet for people to get on with their lives, that is a message that i think resonates in

a message that i think resonates in a lot of focus groups but is difficult to sell in headlines. what does that mean? _ difficult to sell in headlines. what does that mean? the _ difficult to sell in headlines. what does that mean? the wording was, tread lightly, what does that mean, stephen? i tread lightly, what does that mean, stehen? . tread lightly, what does that mean, stehen? , ., ii" stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i was _ stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i was out _ stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i was out and _ stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i was out and about, i stephen? i remember on the 2019 election i was out and about, as i stephen? i remember on the 2019| election i was out and about, as all of us _ election i was out and about, as all of us were. — election i was out and about, as all of us were, either covering or fighting — of us were, either covering or fighting that election, and i talked to this _ fighting that election, and i talked to this woman, said, harry voting? but in _ to this woman, said, harry voting? but in conservatives, i said, let's talk about— but in conservatives, i said, let's talk about it, she said, i want that woman— talk about it, she said, i want that woman of— talk about it, she said, i want that woman of the teli, who is she talking — woman of the teli, who is she talking about? she meant the bbc then political editor, laura kuenssberg, she was sick of hearing about— kuenssberg, she was sick of hearing about brexit all the time! that was the conservatives kind of promised, the conservatives kind of promised, the end _ the conservatives kind of promised, the end of— the conservatives kind of promised, the end of the noise, and since 2019 quite _ the end of the noise, and since 2019 quite a _ the end of the noise, and since 2019 quite a lot— the end of the noise, and since 2019 quite a lot of noise has happened. i think— quite a lot of noise has happened. i think what— quite a lot of noise has happened. i think what keir starmer is doing its kind of weaponising his own dullness in a way _ kind of weaponising his own dullness in a way he — kind of weaponising his own dullness in a way. he is going, look, under me there — in a way. he is going, look, under me there is — in a way. he is going, look, under me there is not going to be parties, continual— me there is not going to be parties, continual arguments about politics, crisis _ continual arguments about politics, crisis after — continual arguments about politics, crisis after crisis. of course some of those — crisis after crisis. of course some of those prices are not the conservative party's faut, covid and

division _ conservative party's faut, covid and division of _ conservative party's faut, covid and division of ukraine are not their fault. _ division of ukraine are not their fault. but — division of ukraine are not their fault, but of course what keir starmer _ fault, but of course what keir starmer is able to do is exploit the prices _ starmer is able to do is exploit the prices which very much where they're full, partygate and the liz truss experiment, what he is saying, under me politics _ experiment, what he is saying, under me politics will be orderly again. -- which — me politics will be orderly again. —— which were the conservative party's — —— which were the conservative party's fault. -- which were the conservative party's fault-— party's fault. that will allow -undits party's fault. that will allow pundits to _ party's fault. that will allow pundits to say, _ party's fault. that will allow pundits to say, you're i party's fault. that will allow pundits to say, you're just l party's fault. that will allow l pundits to say, you're just not pundits to say, you�*re just not being bodo�*s, sir keir starmer. haifa being bodo's, sir keir starmer. how do ou being bodo's, sir keir starmer. how do you make — being bodo's, sir keir starmer. how do you make dullness, exciting, really? — do you make dullness, exciting, really? and _ do you make dullness, exciting, really? and is— do you make dullness, exciting, really? and is accompanied i do you make dullness, exciting, really? and is accompanied a i do you make dullness, exciting, - really? and is accompanied a message he is trying _ really? and is accompanied a message he is trying to— really? and is accompanied a message he is trying to get— really? and is accompanied a message he is trying to get across _ really? and is accompanied a message he is trying to get across —— _ he is trying to get across —— complicated _ he is trying to get across —— complicated. which - he is trying to get across —— complicated. which is, i he is trying to get across —— complicated. which is, the| he is trying to get across —— i complicated. which is, the way politics— complicated. which is, the way politics works _ complicated. which is, the way politics works is _ complicated. which is, the way politics works is not _ complicated. which is, the way politics works is not fit - complicated. which is, the way politics works is not fit for i politics works is not fit for purpose _ politics works is not fit for purpose. the _ politics works is not fit for purpose. the whole - politics works is not fit for. purpose. the whole system politics works is not fit for i purpose. the whole system has politics works is not fit for _ purpose. the whole system has seized up. purpose. the whole system has seized up five _ purpose. the whole system has seized up five home — purpose. the whole system has seized up. five home secretaries _ purpose. the whole system has seized up. five home secretaries in _ purpose. the whole system has seized up. five home secretaries in five i up. five home secretaries in five years. _ up. five home secretaries in five years. ten— up. five home secretaries in five years. ten housing _ up. five home secretaries in five years, ten housing sectors, i up. five home secretaries in fivel years, ten housing sectors, seven education — years, ten housing sectors, seven education ministers _ years, ten housing sectors, seven education ministers in _ years, ten housing sectors, seven education ministers in eight - years, ten housing sectors, sevenl education ministers in eight years, if that— education ministers in eight years, if that was— education ministers in eight years, if that was a — education ministers in eight years, if that was a company, _ education ministers in eight years, if that was a company, we - education ministers in eight years, if that was a company, we would i if that was a company, we would withdraw— if that was a company, we would withdraw our _ if that was a company, we would withdraw our custom _ if that was a company, we would withdraw our custom from - if that was a company, we would withdraw our custom from it, i if that was a company, we would i withdraw our custom from it, really, because _ withdraw our custom from it, really, because it _ withdraw our custom from it, really, because it sounds _ withdraw our custom from it, really, because it sounds dodgy. _ withdraw our custom from it, really, because it sounds dodgy. and - withdraw our custom from it, really, because it sounds dodgy. and that l because it sounds dodgy. and that is what happened _ because it sounds dodgy. and that is what happened. plus, _ because it sounds dodgy. and that is what happened. plus, more - because it sounds dodgy. and that is what happened. plus, more and i because it sounds dodgy. and that isi what happened. plus, more and more people _ what happened. plus, more and more people are _ what happened. plus, more and more people are waking _ what happened. plus, more and more people are waking up _ what happened. plus, more and more people are waking up to— what happened. plus, more and more people are waking up to the _ what happened. plus, more and more people are waking up to the fact i people are waking up to the fact that communities, _ people are waking up to the fact that communities, especially i people are waking up to the fact i

that communities, especially those outside _ that communities, especially those outside of— that communities, especially those outside of london, _ that communities, especially those outside of london, there _ that communities, especially those outside of london, there is- that communities, especially those outside of london, there is no- outside of london, there is no connection— outside of london, there is no connection between— outside of london, there is no connection between national. connection between national government— connection between national government and _ connection between national- government and local government, local government _ government and local government, local government is _ government and local government, local government is seen _ government and local government, local government is seen as - government and local government, local government is seen as a i local government is seen as a kind of, local government is seen as a kind of. and _ local government is seen as a kind of. and also — local government is seen as a kind of. and also ran— local government is seen as a kind of, and also ran on— local government is seen as a kind of, and also ran on something i local government is seen as a kind of, and also ran on something not| local government is seen as a kind i of, and also ran on something not to think— of, and also ran on something not to think about. — of, and also ran on something not to think about, whereas _ of, and also ran on something not to think about, whereas in _ of, and also ran on something not to think about, whereas in fact - of, and also ran on something not to think about, whereas in fact a - of, and also ran on something not to think about, whereas in fact a lot i think about, whereas in fact a lot of the _ think about, whereas in fact a lot of the major— think about, whereas in fact a lot of the major issues _ think about, whereas in fact a lot of the major issues like - think about, whereas in fact a lot of the major issues like social- of the major issues like social care. — of the major issues like social care. health— of the major issues like social care, health and _ of the major issues like social care, health and so _ of the major issues like social care, health and so on - of the major issues like social care, health and so on are i of the major issues like social- care, health and so on are foisted onto— care, health and so on are foisted onto local— care, health and so on are foisted onto local government. _ care, health and so on are foisted onto local government. but - care, health and so on are foisted onto local government. but with i care, health and so on are foisted i onto local government. but with no resources — onto local government. but with no resources and _ onto local government. but with no resources. and that's _ onto local government. but with no resources. and that's what - onto local government. but with no resources. and that's what people i resources. and that's what people feel on— resources. and that's what people feel on the — resources. and that's what people feel on the ground. _ resources. and that's what people feel on the ground. the _ resources. and that's what people feel on the ground. the system i resources. and that's what people feel on the ground. the system is| feel on the ground. the system is broken _ feel on the ground. the system is broken and — feel on the ground. the system is broken and i_ feel on the ground. the system is broken. and i think— feel on the ground. the system is broken. and i think he _ feel on the ground. the system is broken. and i think he is- feel on the ground. the system is broken. and i think he is trying i feel on the ground. the system is broken. and i think he is trying to articulate — broken. and i think he is trying to articulate that _ broken. and i think he is trying to articulate that that _ broken. and i think he is trying to articulate that that actually- articulate that that actually doesn't _ articulate that that actually doesn't cost _ articulate that that actually doesn't cost money as i articulate that that actually- doesn't cost money as such, it's more about— doesn't cost money as such, it's more about reorganising - doesn't cost money as such, it's more about reorganising and i doesn't cost money as such, it's i more about reorganising and making things— more about reorganising and making things more~ — more about reorganising and making things more... making _ more about reorganising and making things more... making parts - more about reorganising and making things more... making parts of- more about reorganising and making things more... making parts of the i things more... making parts of the country— things more... making parts of the country in — things more... making parts of the country in parts _ things more... making parts of the country in parts of _ things more... making parts of the| country in parts of government talk to one _ country in parts of government talk to one another~ _ country in parts of government talk to one another. i— country in parts of government talk to one another. i do— country in parts of government talk to one another.— to one another. i do think keir starmer needs _ to one another. i do think keir starmer needs to _ to one another. i do think keir starmer needs to be - to one another. i do think keir starmer needs to be careful, i to one another. i do think keir - starmer needs to be careful, though, when he says tread lightly, i think if you see politics as a form of entertainment it has been very volatile but if politics is about government helping and supporting you, don�*t want to end up sounding laissez faire and actually, treading lightly, and i would say the problem for keir starmer is that actually, there are some slight differences in particular policy areas but

generally he�*s keeping quite close to the tory line. {30 generally he's keeping quite close to the tory line.— generally he's keeping quite close to the tory line._ i l to the tory line. go ahead, cat. i think it's a _ to the tory line. go ahead, cat. i think it's a reflector _ to the tory line. go ahead, cat. i think it's a reflector of _ to the tory line. go ahead, cat. i think it's a reflector of the - to the tory line. go ahead, cat. i think it's a reflector of the fact i think it's a reflector of the fact that most— think it's a reflector of the fact that most people want politicians to stop. _ that most people want politicians to stop. get _ that most people want politicians to stop, get off their tv, going that most people want politicians to stop, get off theirtv, going back to doing — stop, get off theirtv, going back to doing theirjob and allowing them to doing theirjob and allowing them to -o to doing theirjob and allowing them to go back— to doing theirjob and allowing them to go back to doing theirjob. most people _ to go back to doing theirjob. most people don't want to spend their days obsessing over the names of politicians. — days obsessing over the names of politicians, they want them to get on and _ politicians, they want them to get on and do — politicians, they want them to get on and do the job and if they are not doing — on and do the job and if they are not doing that because they are embroiled in partygate inquiries or what have — embroiled in partygate inquiries or what have you, then that's part of the problem, that's why we are, one of the _ the problem, that's why we are, one of the reasons we have so many issues. — of the reasons we have so many issues, because churn in ministry the row— issues, because churn in ministry the row rules and perception they are not— the row rules and perception they are not actually getting on with the 'ob are not actually getting on with the job at— are not actually getting on with the job at hand. gn are not actually getting on with the job at hand-— job at hand. on that point you raised earlier— job at hand. on that point you raised earlier as _ job at hand. on that point you raised earlier as well, - job at hand. on that point you raised earlier as well, sir i job at hand. on that point you raised earlier as well, sir keir| raised earlier as well, sir keir starmer has dished a load of promises that he made when he was trying to become leader of the labour party, —— ditched promises that are what guarantee is there that are what guarantee is there that he will keep the promises he is making now the voters? ii i that he will keep the promises he is making now the voters?— making now the voters? if i were advisin: making now the voters? if i were advising the _ making now the voters? if i were advising the conservative - making now the voters? if i were advising the conservative party l making now the voters? if i were i advising the conservative party that to me _ advising the conservative party that to me would — advising the conservative party that to me would be _ advising the conservative party that to me would be where _ advising the conservative party that to me would be where i— advising the conservative party that to me would be where i would - advising the conservative party that to me would be where i would wanti advising the conservative party that. to me would be where i would want to put the _

to me would be where i would want to put the belt _ to me would be where i would want to put the bath i— to me would be where i would want to put the ball. i would _ to me would be where i would want to put the ball. i would be _ to me would be where i would want to put the ball. i would be saying - to me would be where i would want to put the ball. i would be saying a - put the ball. i would be saying a mother, — put the ball. i would be saying a mother, yet _ put the ball. i would be saying a mother, yet the _ put the ball. i would be saying a mother, yet the party— put the ball. i would be saying a mother, yet the party has - put the ball. i would be saying a - mother, yet the party has changed, yes we _ mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can — mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can see _ mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can see in_ mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can see in the _ mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can see in the polls, - mother, yet the party has changed, yes we can see in the polls, when l yes we can see in the polls, when you go— yes we can see in the polls, when you go around _ yes we can see in the polls, when you go around and _ yes we can see in the polls, when you go around and talk— yes we can see in the polls, when you go around and talk to - you go around and talk to anyone, the labour— you go around and talk to anyone, the labour party— you go around and talk to anyone, the labour party does _ you go around and talk to anyone, the labour party does not - the labour party does not inspire the labour party does not inspire the same — the labour party does not inspire the same theory— the labour party does not inspire the same theory did _ the labour party does not inspire the same theory did in— the labour party does not inspire the same theory did in parts- the labour party does not inspire the same theory did in parts of. the labour party does not inspire i the same theory did in parts of the country— the same theory did in parts of the country at — the same theory did in parts of the country at the _ the same theory did in parts of the country at the last _ the same theory did in parts of the country at the last election - the same theory did in parts of the country at the last election but - the same theory did in parts of the country at the last election but it l country at the last election but it cruciatty— country at the last election but it cruciatty does _ country at the last election but it crucially does not _ country at the last election but it crucially does not inspire - country at the last election but it crucially does not inspire the - country at the last election but it. crucially does not inspire the hope it did _ crucially does not inspire the hope it did in _ crucially does not inspire the hope it did in other— crucially does not inspire the hope it did in other parts— crucially does not inspire the hope it did in other parts of— crucially does not inspire the hope it did in other parts of the - crucially does not inspire the hope it did in other parts of the country| it did in other parts of the country and also, — it did in other parts of the country and also, can_ it did in other parts of the country and also, can you _ it did in other parts of the country and also, can you really _ it did in other parts of the country and also, can you really trust - it did in other parts of the country and also, can you really trust that the party— and also, can you really trust that the party has _ and also, can you really trust that the party has changed? _ and also, can you really trust that the party has changed? and - and also, can you really trust that the party has changed? and i- and also, can you really trust thatl the party has changed? and i think that will— the party has changed? and i think that will he — the party has changed? and i think that will be the — the party has changed? and i think that will be the big _ the party has changed? and i think that will be the big thing _ the party has changed? and i think that will be the big thing and - the party has changed? and i think that will be the big thing and the l that will be the big thing and the labour— that will be the big thing and the labour party— that will be the big thing and the labour party doesn't _ that will be the big thing and the labour party doesn't really- that will be the big thing and the labour party doesn't really have | that will be the big thing and the . labour party doesn't really have an answer _ labour party doesn't really have an answer for— labour party doesn't really have an answer for it. — labour party doesn't really have an answer for it, yet— labour party doesn't really have an answer for it, yet people _ labour party doesn't really have an answer for it, yet people in - labour party doesn't really have ani answer for it, yet people in cabinet like yvette — answer for it, yet people in cabinet like yvette cooper— answer for it, yet people in cabinet like yvette cooper who _ answer for it, yet people in cabinet like yvette cooper who did - answer for it, yet people in cabinet like yvette cooper who did not - answer for it, yet people in cabinet. like yvette cooper who did not serve under _ like yvette cooper who did not serve underjeremy— like yvette cooper who did not serve underjeremy corbyn, _ like yvette cooper who did not serve underjeremy corbyn, and that - like yvette cooper who did not serve underjeremy corbyn, and that of. underjeremy corbyn, and that of course _ underjeremy corbyn, and that of course you have _ underjeremy corbyn, and that of course you have people - underjeremy corbyn, and that of course you have people like - underjeremy corbyn, and that of course you have people like keir| course you have people like keir stanner— course you have people like keir starmer who— course you have people like keir starmer who very _ course you have people like keir starmer who very much - course you have people like keir starmer who very much did, - course you have people like keiri starmer who very much did, and course you have people like keir- starmer who very much did, and said that he _ starmer who very much did, and said that he would — starmer who very much did, and said that he would essentially _ starmer who very much did, and said that he would essentially continue i that he would essentially continue on the _ that he would essentially continue on the policies _ that he would essentially continue on the policies and _ that he would essentially continue on the policies and approach, - on the policies and approach, and now very— on the policies and approach, and now very much _ on the policies and approach, and now very much as _ on the policies and approach, and now very much as abandoned, to| on the policies and approach, and i now very much as abandoned, to the extent— now very much as abandoned, to the extent that _ now very much as abandoned, to the extent thatjeremy_ now very much as abandoned, to the extent that jeremy corbyn _ now very much as abandoned, to the extent that jeremy corbyn is - now very much as abandoned, to the extent that jeremy corbyn is not - now very much as abandoned, to the extent that jeremy corbyn is not in l extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour— extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour party— extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour party any— extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour party any more. - extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour party any more. i- extent thatjeremy corbyn is not in the labour party any more. i think| the labour party any more. i think if there _ the labour party any more. i think if there is— the labour party any more. i think if there is a — the labour party any more. i think if there is a way— the labour party any more. i think if there is a way back _ the labour party any more. i think if there is a way back for - if there is a way back for the conservative _ if there is a way back for the conservative party _ if there is a way back for the conservative party it - if there is a way back for the conservative party it will - if there is a way back for the conservative party it will be | if there is a way back for the - conservative party it will be those questions — conservative party it will be those questions about _ conservative party it will be those questions about trust _ conservative party it will be those questions about trust in _ conservative party it will be those questions about trust in keir- questions about trust in keir starmer _ questions about trust in keir starmer l— questions about trust in keir starmer. t, starmer. i disagree with that because i — starmer. i disagree with that because i think, _ starmer. i disagree with that because i think, you - starmer. i disagree with that because i think, you know, l starmer. i disagree with that - because i think, you know, everyone thinks politicians change their minds and change their argument, and in fact there is a positive argument to be said which is politicians, if