straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. israel's post—7 october assault on gaza continues unabated, and it appears to command the overwhelming support of the israeli public. but what of the roughly two million civilians who are arab israelis, many with family in gaza or in the occupied west bank. my guest is aida touma—sliman, a palestinian arab member of the israeli parliament. what does this war mean for the lives and the futures of israel's arab minority?

aida touma—sliman injerusalem, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, thank you stephen. it is a pleasure to have you on the show. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. let me ask you a simple first question — how much has changed for you and for your community in israel since october the 7th? there was a life, that is not so easy before october 7th, but now it is unbearable after october 7th. we were thinking that our main struggle would be for peace, and the occupation of our own people

in the west bank and gaza, and struggling for our rights to be equal citizens, and to have equality and to be able to develop our community in an equal way like thejewish community in israel. after october 7th, although before that we felt racism, after 7th october, we feel really threatened. we feel terrorised also on the establishment level from ministers and policies led by the government, and from the general public. we became suddenly as if terrorists in potential. i want to talk at length about that. but let us just focus for now if we can on —

well, we're using this date, october 7th — what we mean by that is the murderous assault by hamas on southern israel which left more than 1,200 people, women, children, men, murdered, dead. when you heard the news on that day, did you anticipate the scale of trauma, shock, grief, anger that was going to sweep across israel and continues to this very day to sweep across israel? no, i don't think that anybody anticipated the amount of grief, because nobody anticipated also the huge trauma that would be created from the killing and from the fact that there are civilians...who became victims of this assault, or the kidnapped and hostages who are in gaza, part of them until today.

in the beginning, we understood that something is going on, and as you know until the evening we started to realise how big the issue is, and how much people are involved in that... did it feel, if i may, like an attack on you? i'm very mindful that amongst all of the victims there were, according to haaretz�*s numbers, there were 2a arab citizens, i9 bedouin arabs amongst them. that's true. at least nine bedouin arabs were taken hostage at that time as well. you are a citizen of israel — did it feel like an attack on you? it felt like a chaotic situation, but there is nobody can feel safe if we were in that area. i am living in the north, and i wasn't so close, but of course, even if i wasn't

threatened, meaning the sorrow and the pain was there, existing, just in hearing the stories about children who are killed, or women. it doesn't have to be arabs or palestinians orjews in order to feel the pain. crosstalk. you need only to be human in order to feel that. that's i guess what i'm driving that. i wonder whether when netanyahu and the israeli government made it an absolute determination to "destroy hamas", whether you, as somebody who is identifying themselves as a palestinian israeli citizen, whether you totally shared that belief — that was that legitimate, the right response from israel, to seek to eliminate, destroy the people who had done this?

first of all, i don't believe that any military action can bring us closer to solve the problem in any way, or to hold anybody accountable. really? you don't believe that having murdered all these people in your country, you don't believe that israel has a right to seek to destroy those who committed this act? stephen, there's an attempt always to talk about october 7th as if it is the beginning of everything. it was horrible, it was painful, and we feel sorry for it, but it is not the beginning. it didn't happen in a vacuum. it didn't happen just because a bunch of crazy people just wanted to slaughter other people. we have... although i do not feel in any way that i can legitimise the killing of children and women and civilians — i was always against that — but i am against killing civilians

in both sides. not only on the side that i am a citizen of. not only the israeli children, but also the gazan children. and from the first day, we understood that it is going to be a vicious war, that it's going to be a bloody war and it is not only.. you understand in one week, you reach thousands of civilians, you reach thousands of civilians — 60% till today are women and children — you understand it's not an issue of only attacking hamas. there are people who are involved in this war, there are people who are killed, there are people who are injured, there are children who are thirsty and starving now in gaza. there are indeed, thousands of children who have been killed in gaza, thousands of women, the latest death toll from the hamas—run health ministry goes to 22,000 people in gaza.

but again, i come back to... and there are more under the rubble. we don't know. but there are many people who believe the death toll will run much higher. but again, i'm mindful of you and your position. you are from a christian—arab background, you are a citizen of the state of israel, you are a self—described communist — i cannot really think of any arab person who would be further removed from the ideology of hamas. what we have is an israeli government which says its what they call a terror organisation, which threatens every single day the security of israel's citizens. i'm just trying to figure out whether you think that is legitimate or not. i think that what we need now is not to react on the things that that are marketed by netanyahu to the west,

but also to look at what is happening on the ground. what is happening on the ground is not fighting only hamas, it is an attack on the palestinian people in gaza, and it is also on the west bank. and it's also on the west bank. we cannot isolate ourself and only pick phrases and try to relate take phrases and try to relate to them without any context, without any reality that we are living every day. but what's so fascinating... just a minute, please. if i may, aida, many people over the last few months have been thinking a great deal about the situation of the palestinians in gaza. they'll also perhaps have been thinking about what it means for the continued military occupation of palestinian territories in the west bank.

but you're in a different position because you, throughout your life, have lived as a citizen of israel. i'm just trying to understand right now whether you feel, as a tel aviv university survey says many arab citizens of israel feel right now, which is an actual increased identification 33%, according to this survey, find that they are first and foremost feeling like israelis, which edges higher than their arab arab identity and much higher than any of them saying that their first identity is palestinian. where are you right now? well, first of all, i would like to say that surveys are fine, but when they are run under a traumatised and terrorised and silenced society, i do not take all the results as guaranteed, because when you are silenced, when you understand that any "wrong" word you are going to say that

don't agree with the establishment, you will be harassed, you might be also arrested or dismissed from work, you will give any answer that satisfies the general public. that's first of all, meaning i am... i lived all my life as a citizen of israel, also, and i was born as a palestinian. this is part of my identity that i cannot and will never ignore. part of the story of my life, and the things that i have been struggling for, are coming from the complication part of the story of my life, and the things that i've been struggling for are coming from the complication in those two identities when they are confronting each other. meaning being a citizen

of israel, the same state own people on the west bank and gaza i think that brings me into a unique situation of someone who sees both sides. you said... someone who understands that there is no way to think that that one side is going to finish the other side, and that there is a possibility to continue to live, sides are getting their rights, but when both sides are getting their rights, when both sides are living safely. we'll get into possible long—term solutions, all of that discussion of the day after the end of the war in a minute, but i want to pick up on something you said earlier about a post—october 7 rise in inter—communal tensions and difficulties for arab citizens of israel. one influential arab israeli analyst, mohammad darawshe, who's the director of strategy at givat haviva,

the centre for a shared society, said, "we are seeing the rise of a kind of mccarthyism", by which he means a very structured sort of distrust, persecution of israeli arabs. do you feel that? i don't know when mohammad has said that, when he said "rise" of mccarthyism, i'm telling you we are living under mccarthyism these days. he meant it has become much more pronounced since october 7. yes, of course, of course, and you can see that happening in universities, in the parliament itself, when i was suspended for two months because of quoting testimonies from al—shifa hospital on x platform. and of course, when you know that the demonstrations or protest actions are banned

totally by the police, when you understand that students are persecuted and complained against in the police, arrested because they have published words of sympathy towards gazan children, or because they expressed their position against the war. so, you can understand that mccarthyism is existing when you are punished for your political views and the margins of freedom of speech is getting not only narrow, but vanishing almost. but we did discuss the level of trauma inside israel. i just wonder whether it was wise

and responsible for you, and responsible for you — your social media use on x — what you actually accused the israeli government of, by echoing a report that had been on the media, you accused them of using white phosphorus in gaza... i didn't accuse them of anything, i brought testimonies. and i don't understand, i'm a politician... crosstalk. you repeated a media report which referred to the use of phosphorus... stephen. stephen! ..which your own knesset described was unacceptable and that's why you were sanctioned. what do you mean "my own knesset" decided that was unacceptable? decided that it's unacceptable? well, a committee sat injudgement of you and they decided you should be punished. yeah, they decided — this is part of mccarthyism. when other members of parliament are deciding for me what can be said and what cannot be said when i'm a parliamentarian, i have immunity —

parliamentarian immunity — to give me a space to speak up. and now it's taken from me by this decision by members of parliament who are on the other side of the political map. this is democracy? sorry, i was elected in order to speak out what i believe in. i believe that military actions cannot be any solution for political problem, and i've said that — that's why i'm against the war. i'm against getting civilians involved in a blood cycle, and i will speak out every time if they are israelis or if they are palestinians. so, i think that the knesset is not a school that

they can tell me what i can say and what cannot be said. i'm supposed to do my duty in order to warn that there are things not to be done, and they are not going to bring any security — neither for the palestinians or many for the israelis in their names. do you think you owe the israeli state anything in terms of loyalty, obligations to peaceable behaviour? in the past, you've referred to "lion's den gunmen" in nablus, who have attacked israeli military personnel and jewish settlers. you've referred to them as "martyrs". you currently... this is not — stephen... ..the apartheid era for treatment of your israeli arab communities inside israel. all of this language makes me wonder whether you feel any sort of obligation or loyalty to israel.

i'm very happy that you did your homework, but your problem is that you only read the israeli official and right—wing, racist narrative about me, ehich is very strange for me. which is very strange for me. i would expect, also, to say that when i related to what i related — you said people who were killing and attacking and etc — those were five young men who were killed in their homes in nablus. mmm. by the army. this is first of all. second, you are alreadyjudging me for saying israel is practising a kind of apartheid. i would like you to relate to the fact that, first of all, in all of nine years of working

in the parliament, i worked for all people in an equal approach — not like this fascist government that we have now in israel that is only meant to work for the settlers and for thejewish society — not seeing us as equal citizens. when i promoted laws in the knesset — believe me, i managed to legislate a lot, and i was heading, chairing, the committee for equality for women and promoting the status of women. i worked for all women in israel. so i'm not the one to be blamed of racist approaches. if i may, aida, you make a very valid point. and as part of my "homework", i absolutely saw that you have had a tradition of working across party lines.

you've worked on gender—related legislation with some unlikely legislation with some unlikely allies, including members of the orthodox religious political groupings, including settler—oriented political groupings. you've done that on specific issues. so, my question for you right now is — as an israeli arab member of knesset, are you now seeking to forge alliances with members of the knesset to bring down the netanyahu government? in 2021, israeli arab mps were very influential in bringing netanyahu's netanyahu's government at the time to an end. are you seeking to be part of such an alliance now? i have to say very clearly that we have always warned the public from netanyahu being our prime minister. we always went against him as a prime minister.

we believe that he is bringing, in his policies and in his ideology, disasters. and we believe that it's better that he finish his position not today, not tomorrow, but yesterday. and any attempts to make this government fall down, we will be for sure part of it. this is very well—known, our position, especially that we are — me and my colleagues — are a part of the only jewish arab palestinian party in israel, and we are the only ones jewish—arab—palestinian party in israel, and we are the only ones who are very clear in our policy against occupation, against war, and against damaging or hurting any civilians. but isn't the very difficult truth for you, as a long—term believer that the only solution for these two peoples — israelis and palestinians,

who share this small land between thejordan river and the mediterranean sea — you've been a long—time believer that a two—state solution is the only pathway to a lasting peace. that is more unlikely than ever? indeed — you don't like surveys, but surveys since october 7 show that both palestinians and israelis have less faith than ever ever before in the possibility of a two—state solution. well, i have to say, stephen, that political solutions are created by leadership, and not by polls. whenever people on both sides felt that there is a hope for a secure and peaceful life and prosperity, they tended to agree immediately. look at what was the polls before oslo and after oslo — although now we understand that it wasn't the best agreement ever.

but i believe that the reality of creating two—state solution is a matter of something that we should be dealing now by stopping this bloody war. because the day everybody attempts to think what you think about the day after, what kind of solution can be created what kind of solution can be created. and i believe that the day after is designed today. if the world continues to be silent and is not really active in stopping this war, then the world is helping liquidate any possibility for creating a palestinian state alongside the state of israel, the two—state solution. we have — and i think the world should act immediately — in order to look for the far future and to think — we have — and i think the world should act immediately — in order to look for the far future and to think —

what kind of life do we want for this region? if we are thinking of two—state solution, then let's start acting now. aida touma—sliman, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk from jerusalem. thank you. hello there. the relentless rain across the uk has certainly been testing our patience of late, hasn't it? in fact, only those with webbed feet pretty happy. there's been a lot of torrential rain and certainly some

substantial localised flooding. but all that is set to change as we head into the weekend because of the jet stream. it's going to buckle its way up to the north of the uk and allow this area of high pressure to develop for some time which will quieten the weather story down considerably. before that, we've still got outbreaks of rain to clear away from the southeast, a line of sharp showers and stronger winds from the northern isles, eastern scotland, down into northeast england. maybe a few coastal showers to the west. sandwiched in—between the two, something drier and a little brighter as well. generally, we'll see temperatures around 6—9 celsius, colder and windier across the northern isles. but high pressure will start to build in from the west at the start of the weekend. we've still got that nuisance low up into the far northeast, so the wind still a feature and there'll still be outbreaks of rain across the northern isles and perhaps parts of aberdeenshire. little more cloud across the east of the pennines but, generally speaking, fine and quiet with a few coastal showers

but the temperatures starting to struggle just a touch, generally around 6—8 celsius across the country. and as we see that high pressure building and the skies remain clear overnight, the temperatures are likely to fall away, so during the early hours of sunday morning in rural spots, we're likely to see temperatures just below, but in towns and city centres temperatures hovering around the freezing mark. that'll be a bit of a shock to the system for sunday morning. there could be some patchy mist and fog around as well, but on the whole, it's a quiet story. yes, we could be chasing cloud around but hopefully the cloud around, but hopefully the cloud will lift and break at times, so some sunshine to come through, and temperatures between 3—6 celsius. now, as we move out of sunday into monday we've got now, as we move out of sunday into monday, we've got this high pressure that's going to drift its way steadily westwards and as the winds turn round in a clockwise direction, that means more of an easterly fetch, which could drive in

a little more cloud off the north sea, so certainly on monday, it could be a cooler and cloudier day. it will be dry, as you can see, no substantial rain, maybe the risk of a few isolated showers along the south coast, but nothing particularly significant. 3—5 celsius and, with the cloud cover around, it really will start to feel quite chilly. now, if anything, the breeze will pick up across east anglia and the southeast, so as we go into tuesday perhaps that should tend to break that cloud up, but it does mean with any exposure, could be on the cool side, but hopefully on tuesday, a little more sunshine coming through. in sheltered rural parts, that means frost and fog could be an issue first thing, but we keep that dry theme. we keep those temperatures slightly below the average for this time of year and that could be a shock to the system, having seen such a mild but wet december. as we look further ahead, lot of uncertainty,

but the area of high pressure potentially could drift its way a little bit further north and west, potentially could drift its way and that may well allow and here, we could see a few scattered showers. but on the whole, the weather story remains fairly quiet. a good deal of dry weather. we could have a problem with early morning frost and fog but little in the way of significant rainfall to come for at least a week.

four welcome to newsday. reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. welcome to newsday. reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines... us secretary of state, antony blinken, is set to visit israel, the west bank, and seven countries over the next week. continued disruption to international shipping in the red sea — houthi rebels defy us warning by detonating a one—way unmanned surface vessel. we look at how there could be delays to businesses receiving supplies. historically high youth unemployment in china — we speak to i6—24—year—olds in urban areas to see how they're coping. glynisjohns, the actress best known for her role as suffragette mother mrs banks in the film mary poppins, has died at the age of 100. live from our studio in singapore. this is bbc news. it's newsday.