voice-over: this is bbc news. we will have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. misty copeland made history as the first black woman to become a principal dancer at the prestigious american ballet theatre. we had the absolute thrill of meeting her onstage at lincoln center in new york.

hi! hi. i'm katty. thank you so... it's so...! oh, my god. i'm so happy. so lovely to meet you. does everybody who meets you who used to do ballet stand automatically in first position? 0h! is that like a giveaway? and so you have. so i have. and i've been doing it... you know what's weird, preparing for... i find myself all day standing in first position again. it's been so many years. makes you stand up straight. it's so good for you. no, i... thank you for doing this. i'm so thrilled. i'm happy, so am i. i actually when i was about 13, i applied to the royal ballet school in london and i didn't get in, which was just as well, because i'd have been way in the back stage of the corps de ballet, kind of ideally out of the set. but i've wanted to meet you for so long... oh, wow. ..so that's great. so, when you come onto a stage, misty... ..having not danced since 2019... mm—hm. ..how are we feeling? how's your body doing? erm... ..i mean, it's like different air up here.

yeah. you know, like i say... rarified. yeah, it's... ..like this very sacred space to be in. it's magic, you know, what we get to do up here? one of my favourite things to do is to be on the stage before the...you know, ..they let the house, they open the house, they let the audience in, i always am on the stage by myself. it's a different, very different feeling than being in a studio. the mirrors, you know, it's a completely different depth that you have to get used to. it changes your centre of gravity, your balance, everything. yeah. so it's something that i always do just to kind of be out here and just breathe the air. are you listening to the music? no, no. i know it in my head enough that i could evenjust, like, just go through the movement and i have, like, the rhythm and everything in my, in my body. no, i never, like, put on any music or... ijust am there, i like to walk through certain parts of the ballet.

can i see something? can you? just do... please! oh, my gosh. i don't even know... you could do a plie for me. oh, i mean, in my heels, i don't even know what i would do. there's, like, the firebird movement... in heels, and still do... ok, when i get back into my ballet classes, which i am going to do because i've looked them up now, which feels scary for me after so many years... obviously my body can't do what it could do when it was 13, 1a, 15. but you... and it shouldn't, you know? and it shouldn't. and it's just... and how you coping with that? how are you coping with a body that is 40? you've had a child. it's not... you're not... is your body...? how is your body's relationship with ballet? it's not even to me about... it's more about like the injuries that i've had and kind of dealing with that. right. erm... ifeel good having had a baby.

you know, i'm in the gym, i'm doing pilates and things like that but... do you still have the same amazing reach? it's... i would say so. it's been a while. it's been really inconsistent in terms of like what i've been doing with ballet. and that's because of an injury i had to my shin that i'm still managing — it will never be the same. i recently had another operation on it to relieve some of the pressure and it didn't do anything. so that's really the biggest battle that i'm, that i'm facing, not so much my age or, you know, baby, because i feel like... ..we�*re ever evolving as artists, as people, as women. and so it's like you kind of have to just move and adjust with that. but when you're dealing with pain, that's a whole other story. so that's kind of where i'm at. so, you... so... so you're going to give your body a bit of grace as it gets older? yes, yes. and forgive it for not being misty at 20? yes.

and that's how it's been my whole career. you know? that you're never going to go back to that person. your body is never going to be, you know, you have tojust continue to let it grow and change it. continue to let it grow and change. is it hard to accept that? is it hard to think that one day you won't be... ..dancing the way you have been? ballet has been in your life for 27 years. yeah. is it a little scary to think... no. ..that there's going to be a post—... ..performance misty? no, not at all. i mean, i already feel like i'm kind of in this place where it feels really natural. i haven't been onstage in about three years. i know i'll be back on the stage at some point, and it may look very different from what it's been throughout my professional career. but that feels so healthy and normal to me. i have so many things in my life that kind of fulfil what ballet has been, and ballet is still in that, you know, again, it's the work i'm doing through my foundation,

it's these incredible projects i'm creating with my production company. it's having a son. it's all of these things. so to me, this feels like a really natural evolution that i'm just kind of going with the flow. it's so healthy. i don't know, you know, i feel like towards the end of...beginning of the pandemic, like, right before i had a back injury and i think i had just been really overworked. you know, it had been 20 years of working non—stop. you know, i think about vacations where i was still taking ballet class every day and i had my pointe shoes. no matter where i was in the world, my poor husband would find a studio or a gym and we'd drive an hour. so i feel like i'm just at a place now where i'm so content and i'm so proud of the career that i've had. and i know that there will be more performances, erm... ..and itjust feels right, you know?

you know, i... let's take a seat. you... i remember somewhere listening to something you said and you said about how when you were young, your childhood was chaotic... mm—hm. ..and you lived in motels, your mother had partners who were sometimes abusive. there was a lot of poverty, there was a lot of moving. did ballet, when you finally found it at the age of 13, give you some sense of...of what, of control... mm. ..over your body... yeah. ..something that you hadn't had before? you know... ..i think it was it was more than the control over my body — i think it was control over the situation, it was control over my life in some way. it was consistency. it was stability. it was an escape, a beautiful, artistic expression escape. all of those things were things i don't think i realised i needed or i was craving —

i was craving a discipline, you know, to have that kind of structure. and ballet was just perfect in every way to fill all of those needs, all of those voids in my life, to be able to think about, you know, sometimes not knowing whether we were going to pick up and leave in the morning, what we were going to eat for dinner that night, and to know that i was going to go to ballet class the next day at 3:00 and do plies and tendus and degages and fondus — it was going to be the same order. like, there was something so comforting and made me feel so safe about that. how quickly did you know how good you were? i don't know that i ever really knew how good i was, erm, or believed — i was just doing something that i loved. i was doing something where i felt i was being supported and nurtured, which i'd neverfelt. erm... i mean, from the time i started, my teacher was telling

me i was a prodigy. i was receiving full scholarships when i would audition for summer intensive programmes. so there were a lot of schools that wanted me. but in my mind, you know, i knew that i was far behind the other students and that i had a lot of catching up to do. but i knew that i was a fighter and i knew that this was something that i wanted to do. so i was going to work as hard as i possibly could to catch up and get to where i needed to be and wanted to be. you came to new york from california, and i wonder how much of a shock it was to get to the american ballet theater and look around and see that you were the only black dancer. imean... mm. ..you must have known ballet was white. very white. did you know it was that white? that you would come here and be the only one? i'm not sure how aware i was. my teacher, cindy bradley, is an incredible woman and she was very conscious of the fact that i'm a black woman, that i was a black girl,

and that i needed to be as focused on getting the training that i needed to get in order to get to where we wanted me to go, which was to dance professionally for american ballet theatre or another professional company. when i moved to new york city, it definitely was a shock. i don't think that i was prepared enough in knowing how to navigate the space where i would get support from, because it's not something that's really built in to the professional surroundings and atmosphere in a ballet company. they expect you to come in and be an adult and at 17 years old and someone who was very kind of guarded and isolated, i was not at all prepared to take on what it meant to be the only...in...in the company. you're also, in ballet, kind of uniquely, all expected to be identical. i mean, that's the whole thing about...or has been over centuries. the corps de ballet

looked exactly the same, they looked the same. they had the same body, they had the same outfit, they had the same skin colour. they moved identically. i mean, that was it was kind of the essence of ballet. right? and in a way, of all the many disruptive things you've done, i feel it's disrupting that notion... mm. ..of what ballet had to be. for centuries it was like that. and then you came along and we said no. i think there are so many things that i think about in terms of disrupting the field and, you know, provoking the conversation, to be really intentional about the lack of diversity. but you're right, but i have to say that i'm not the first to do it. there have been so many black dancers that have, that have come into professional ballet companies and been the only or been one of maybe two. and it hasn't always been accepted.

you know, for the most part, a lot of the black dancers that have been taken into elite professional companies have lighter skin or are biracial because they can more easily fit in. they can pancake their skin to be a lighter colour, to fit in with the rest of the corps de ballet. would it be harder if you had darker skin, would you be... ..misty copeland ? absolutely it would be harder. i mean, there are so many dancers that have the talent. this is not an issue of not being able to find talented black and brown dancers. this is an issue of not having the support, not having the access or opportunity and not being... ..not being seen as equal. all the girls put on powder, but you're being asked to put on the same colour powder, pancake. white. and then that's when i start to think, like, what's going on here? do they want me to look like myself? or do... do they want me to be an individual and still be able to take on this character? but as myself in my brown skin

and that's who i am. like i said, it's a lot easier for a lighter skin... ..black woman, i want to say in particular, woman, because it's a different journey for black men, to kind of blend in with the...with the company. and then that's another battle that we have to face, whether or not we want to colour our skin. you literally said, hold on, why am i putting on white make—up? yeah, i mean, erm... it was a tough conversation to have and even tough to absorb, like what that really means and how it really is making me feel internally. and it's hard because it's kind of mixed in with this idea of, well, within these certain ballets, if you think of swan lake or giselle or even la bayadere and you're supposed to be otherworldly or you're supposed to be a fairy or a creature or not be alive. and so they say that you need to make your skin match or not shiny.

——matte and so it took me a couple of years to feel confident enough and comfortable enough to go and have agency over myself and express what it was i was feeling with my artistic director and with the artistic staff. how much has changed, misty, just like even in the conversation in the united states? i mean, we've had so much upheaval — metoo, george floyd, even covid. i mean, how much is the conversation different today than how it would have been even five years ago? it was mind—blowing to me to see the shift happen during covid, and, you know, with the uprise of black lives matter and the murder of george floyd. you know, it was something that i knew i would always be fighting for, to push this conversation, to see real change happen. and... but i never imagined it would happen so quickly. there's still so much that needs to be done. can ballet become... ..more, erm... ..more open to diversity, not just of colour of somebody�*s skin, but also of their, even their body type?

we have tonnes of ballet dancers with eating disorders. they starve themselves. they just look unhealthily thin. and then i imagine you come along, you were told this — was what was it you were told? you're not "traditional" or something. yeah. i mean, there's so much... ..deeper kind of underlying meaning behind the things i was told... what were you told? ..because when people meet me, you know, they're like, "wow, you're really small. "you're very petite and you're lean." and so, you know, i've had to think a lot about why those things are being said to me, or even look at the bodies next to me of the dancers who are not black and say, do we look that different? i mean, i was told i was too muscular, i was too short, my breasts are too big. and to me, that's all code for your skin is too dark. your skin is too brown. but it is possible. this is an art form and it's subjective.

and we're bec. .. you know, it's a creative environment where, you know, it's not about... to me, it's not about what the package is, it's how you make people feel. it's the interpretation. it's how you deliver the performance, the character. and that can be done in a variety of bodies, people, wherever they come from. i mean, the characters themselves aren't real. you know, that's a big part of it, too. i mean, of course, there needs to be an evolution i think of a lot of the stories that we're telling in ballet that were created centuries ago that no longer reflect society. they don't reflect what people experience today. a lot of them are really sexist, really racist. so it's something that we're conscious of more so in america than we are in other countries. there are still ballets that are being performed in blackface in russia. you got into a bit of a spat.

yes. misty laughs yeah. i mean, i think that it's so necessary to speak up, that... ..you know, we're no longer living in these times where there's no access to seeing what they're doing at the bolshoi or the mariinsky or whatever company, the royal ballet, you go on youtube, whatever it is, and you have access to seeing all of this. so it's not like they're isolated in a place where they feel people won't be offended who's coming to see them. that's kind of their reasoning behind it. "well, we're not america. "we don't have the history of slavery that you do. "we don't think that people will be offended "because this is just what we've always done." and that's not the case. so many people are watching and the world... we have so much access to all of this. and i just think that it's time that we can hold on to the tradition and some of these ballets that, of course, you know, people still want to see. but we have to continue to evolve and it has

to represent more than just one type of person. that's a that's a great way of putting it. ok, i don't want to keep you seated in check. because i have misty copeland onstage... no, no! ..and ifeel like i'm wasting my opportunity here. i have something to show. 0k. so, come. i'm going to show you this. oh, i'm very excited. so we have to move all of the cameras over. 0k. we're going to sit here... 0k. ..and i'm going to show you something. we're going to sit here if i can actually get down here, i'm not, you know, an eight—year—old...but if we can get down there. ok, so... scenes from your life, misty copeland. oh, my gosh. and i want your reaction to them. so... oh, i love this photograph. so, this... 0h! you know this one. yes. i'm sure you know all of these. this one i love. how long did it take you to get on points? erm, i think it was two months. so this was the very... two months? yeah. this was the very first time

i ever put on a pointe shoe and stood on pointe. wow. yeah, it's pretty wild. yeah. i mean, i was 13. i, you know, had... i wouldn't recommend this to anyone, putting pointe shoes on after two months. this... aw. ..we were talking about earlier. yes. this was here at lincoln center, right? yes. this is the firebird. it's probably in that first performance at lincoln center. there's so many mixed feelings around this image because like you were saying earlier, what that night represented for, you know, black and brown community to come out and support — we'd never seen that many fill the house of the metropolitan opera house. i remember people sending me photographs of the line that was wrapped around and outside of the fountain that were just black people. it was like, are they going to church? like, what's happening? because that's what, you know, you don't typically see that many black people going into the lincoln center. and so for what it represents,

there's so many happy memories. but then i also had six stress fractures in my tibia and pulled out of the season the next day. the next day? and ended up having a plate screwed into my tibia. so you basically did that once. were you in agony the whole...? yes. yeah. i mean, once you go on stage, so much is, you know, the adrenaline and everything, so much is forgotten. it's a painkiller. yes, it's a great painkiller. but then as soon as, you know, all of that subsides and i remember taking the subway home that night and i and it hurt just to stand. and you knew you couldn't... there's no way — i knew that that was it. mm—hm. how do you deal with disappointments like that? oh, you... for me, i tend to not go inside into this dark place, it's, erm... i try and find ways to do whatever i can that's in my control. and so during that time, ifound a teacher that would work with me doing floor bar movement and exercises. so i wasn't standing, but i was still continuing to keep my muscles strong and in form.

ijust kept working on things that i had control over and i never have followed this path that anyone else has. so i always thought there's still hope, even at 29 years old when i got injured, that i could be a principal dancer. and ijust kind of kept that in my mind. because here you were a soloist. i was still a soloist. another way you've been influential... ..by the way. 0k. this is good. this must have felt good. that was unbelievably surreal. i remember being... i was on my way to rehearsal from the upper west side, i was heading downtown, and i remember my manager, gilda, calling me and telling me that i was going to be one of the covers. and i wasjust, like, i couldn't... iwas, like, no, like, not until i see it is it really real. that was an unbelievable time. i had been promoted to principal dancer and itjust was kind of a whirlwind. but even seeing something

like this, it took me years to really accept that i had been promoted and that this history had taken place. you know, abt�*s 75—year history, kind of breaking that barrier of being the first black woman. why do you think you're influential? i've never been asked that before. erm... you know, i think that because i...i look at myself and my career as not me, you know, it's what i represent. it's all of the people that have gotten me to this place that i stand on the shoulders of. it's giving them voice. it's giving a voice to the voiceless, to so many who haven't been given the same opportunities as me, that it's about giving back to, you know, to those who need guidance and need support. you know, ijust think of my life and my career as this very holistic thing and that it's a give—and—take and that it's not just about me. it's so much bigger than me.

misty, it's been wonderful. thank you so much. thank you. they talk and laugh — arsenal's knife crime appeal, littler�*s big news, and will

britney gimme more music? first, there's been so much talk about when the next general election will happen, and when we get to decide who runs the country. well, the prime minister's given a pretty big hint today. rishi sunak says his assumption is that it will be in the sec half of the year. labour has accused him of dithering and delaying while the country wants change. a plan by arsenal to tackle knife crime in london — if you're watching their fa cup match against liverpool on sunday, you might notice their players wearing a white kit, a bit like this. it's part of the no more red campaign — the aim to keep young people safe from crime, to safe spaces, and job opportunities. a few other stories now: we've all been a bit amazed by 16—year—old darts player luke littler. now, he's been chosen to play at this year's premier league. he might have lost last night's world championship final, but still earned 200 grand — not a final, but still earned 200 grand — nota bad

final, but still earned 200 grand — not a bad start to the new year! a new year, but no new music from britney any time soon. there've been reports she's working on an album, but in an insta post, she says the news is trash, and that she'll never return to the music industry. time to leave you with ten seconds of elephant cycling — have a look at these guys at berlin zoo having a good nibble on unwanted christmas trees. i was a bit like this with the selection boxes over christmas, to be fair. you're all caught up. have a great night. hello. after the exceptional rainfall and the significant flooding of the last few days, you may well be pleased to hear that the weather is set to change. the next few days will be drier, yes, also colder, but i'm sure some lower temperatures will be

a small price to pay for less in the way of rain. we certainly saw some rain on thursday in the south of the uk, thanks to this hook of cloud. that's an area of low pressure still close by for the first part of friday morning, still bringing some rain across eastern parts of england. we've also still got some showery rain from this weather system, centred across the north of scotland. so, as we head through the morning on friday, yes, still a little bit of rain across eastern england, quite a brisk wind, as well. still windy for the northern isles, and generally cloud and some showery rain across the northeast of scotland. further west, though, some brighter skies, some spells of sunshine and, while there will be some showers, there probably won't be too many, and a decent amount of dry weather. those temperatures a touch lower than they have been — 6 degrees for aberdeen, nine for cardiff, for plymouth, maybe 10 for the channel islands. and then, as we head through friday night, we'll keep some quite large amounts of cloud, especially across the eastern half of the uk, with some showery rain. drier out west with some clear spells and just one or two showers. that will give rise to some fog patches and a touch of frost for some. temperatures across parts of northern england, scotland, northern ireland are likely to drop below freezing.

so, frost and fog to start the day for some of us on saturday. quite a lot of cloud across the eastern half of england. that will break up to some extent, and i think we will see some spells of sunshine. just one or two showers here and there, but a much drier story than we've been used to. temperatures coming down again, 5—9 celsius at best. through saturday nights, the last remnants of this weather system really clearing away, as high pressure builds more strongly across the uk. that will set us up actually for the forecast for next week and certainly on sunday, we're looking at a lot of dry weather. some early mist and fog, touch of frost in places, but some spells of sunshine. small chance of one or two showers maybe across northeast scotland, also grazing the southeast of england and the channel islands. and it certainly will be a colder—feeling day, 3—7 degrees. and actually, into the start of the new week, the winds will really pick up across the south, so that will add to what will be a really cold feel to the weather. but it'll be a mostly dry week ahead, some spells of sunshine with some frost and some fog at night.

live from washington,

this is bbc news. israel's defence minister outlines plans for the future governing of gaza, after the war, even as the violence continues. thousands mourn the late hamas leader, killed in a suspected israeli attack in lebanon. concerns are growing about violence spreading in the region. and, as ships in the red sea come under attack by iranian—backed houthi rebels, we take a look at how alternate shipping routes may drive up consumer prices. hello, i'm helena humphrey. good to have you with us. israel's defence minister has been outlining plans for governing gaza once the war is over, even as concerns grow about violence spreading further in the middle east. in the �*four corner�* plan, israel would retain overall security control of gaza. a multi—nationalforce would take charge of rebuilding the territory.

neighbouring egypt would also have an unspecified role