probably, although don't bet on it, at the end of the year. my working assumption is we will have a general election in the second half of this year, and in the meantime i've got lots that i want to get on with. keir starmer�*s practising working the crowd. i think the country's ready for a general election, turn its back on this decline and usher in the hope and change that a labour government can bring. plenty to smile about, labour still far ahead in the polls. the conservatives have practical, notjust political problems. a flat economy, nhs strikes and waiting lists, and splits inside the party on immigration. even some of the country underwater. and yet another by—election that labour fancies to win. so we have one big question this morning — what could rishi sunak do if he wants to make history for the right reasons and win the conservatives a fifth term?

could rishi sunak really turn things round? we'll ask the man himself. he faces a labour party that wants to push — yes — "education, education, education". their shadow education secretary bridget phillipson�*s here too. locked out of my own post office until i pay it all back. 26,000?! and as westminster wakes up to the true scale of the post office scandal we'll meet lee castleton, one of the subpostmasters who lost everything. morning, morning, and very happy new year to you. thanks forjoining us at the start of what will be a huge year, when your votes will be courted, and then counted.

happy new year, too, to my team at the desk. we've reassembled the trio who marked rishi sunak�*s homework when we spoke to him last — impressionistjon culshaw, government troubleshooter louise casey, and fraser nelson, editor of the tory bible, the spectator magazine. let's look at the front pages. the sunday times says the government's looking at ways of clearing post office managers whose lives have been ruined by that big scandal. we'll ask the prime minister what that means later. the observer suggests we'll get a first sniff of the covid inquiry findings with an interim report in the summer. interesting. rishi sunak�*s told the sunday telegraph he wants to pay for tax cuts by bearing down on welfare spending. what will he tell us? the sunday mirror says prince andrew will resist any attempt to get him to move out of his royal mansion. and the sun on sunday front page focuses on the death of derek draper, influential new labourfigure, and of course

kate garraway�*s husband, who grappled so long with the after effects of covid. and there has been such public sympathy for her and their family this week after such a tough, tough time. our main event today, welcome to view three, speaking to the prime minister, his first big interview of january 202a. thing is not looking good, fraser, what you think he needs to do this morning? {flare good, fraser, what you think he needs to do this morning? give some reasonable grounds _ needs to do this morning? give some reasonable grounds for _ needs to do this morning? give some reasonable grounds for hope - needs to do this morning? give some reasonable grounds for hope things i reasonable grounds for hope things will get better by the end of the year. everything has been going the wrong way for him by and large, nhs waiting lists, the tax burden. will he persuade us taxes are going down when they are in fact going up. this is part of his verbal conundrum so we will see if he runs the gauntlet with you. we will see if he runs the gauntlet with ou. ., , ., _, ., with you. louise, what could we hear from him? — with you. louise, what could we hear from him? i — with you. louise, what could we hear from him? ithink— with you. louise, what could we hear from him? i think we _ with you. louise, what could we hear from him? i think we will— with you. louise, what could we hear from him? i think we will hear- with you. louise, what could we hear from him? i think we will hear yet. from him? i think we will hear yet aaain a from him? i think we will hear yet again a conservative _ from him? i think we will hear yet again a conservative prime - from him? i think we will hear yet i again a conservative prime minister will crack_ again a conservative prime minister will crack down on benefits. it's like. _ will crack down on benefits. it's like. it— will crack down on benefits. it's like. it was_ will crack down on benefits. it's like, it was ever thus, difficult times— like, it was ever thus, difficult times ahead, let's go for the benefits_ times ahead, let's go for the benefits system. i hope it isn't as

straightforward as that and there is something more sophisticated in it, but my— something more sophisticated in it, but my worry is, it is like, been here, _ but my worry is, it is like, been here, done _ but my worry is, it is like, been here, done it, say it all over again — here, done it, say it all over aaain. ., ~' �* , again. you think it'll 'ust repetition. i again. you think it'll 'ust repetition. rinse i again. you think it'lljust repetition. rinse and - again. you think it'lljust - repetition. rinse and repeat, it will not get _ repetition. rinse and repeat, it will not get them _ repetition. rinse and repeat, it will not get them anywhere, i repetition. rinse and repeat, it will not get them anywhere, it| repetition. rinse and repeat, it. will not get them anywhere, it will not get _ will not get them anywhere, it will not get any politician anywhere this election— not get any politician anywhere this election year. people have to say something new and different that we can believe in. jon something new and different that we can believe im— can believe in. jon culshaw, do you have sympathy _ can believe in. jon culshaw, do you have sympathy for _ can believe in. jon culshaw, do you have sympathy for rishi _ can believe in. jon culshaw, do you have sympathy for rishi sunak, - have sympathy for rishi sunak, inheriting a bad situation and been behind in the polling for a long time but maybe a lot of what he has dealt with was not his creation. indeed, he seems to be a spreadsheet sort of— indeed, he seems to be a spreadsheet sort of fellow, — indeed, he seems to be a spreadsheet sort of fellow, he _ indeed, he seems to be a spreadsheet sort of fellow, he sorts _ indeed, he seems to be a spreadsheet sort of fellow, he sorts problems - sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with — sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with the _ sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with the view— sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with the view of— sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with the view of a _ sort of fellow, he sorts problems out with the view of a quadratic. out with the view of a quadratic equation, — out with the view of a quadratic equation, almost, _ out with the view of a quadratic equation, almost, in— out with the view of a quadratic equation, almost, in that- out with the view of a quadratic equation, almost, in that sort i out with the view of a quadraticl equation, almost, in that sort of mahheh — equation, almost, in that sort of mahheh hardly— equation, almost, in that sort of manner. hardly a _ equation, almost, in that sort of manner. hardly a long—term - equation, almost, in that sort of. manner. hardly a long—term record equation, almost, in that sort of- manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured _ manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured by, — manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured by, so— manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured by, so perhaps _ manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured by, so perhaps the - manner. hardly a long—term record to be assured by, so perhaps the only. be assured by, so perhaps the only way be assured by, so perhaps the only wav to— be assured by, so perhaps the only way to win — be assured by, so perhaps the only way to win is — be assured by, so perhaps the only way to win is a _ be assured by, so perhaps the only way to win is a short—term - be assured by, so perhaps the only way to win is a short—term term i way to win is a short—term term sweeteners, _ way to win is a short—term term sweeteners, maybe _ way to win is a short—term term sweeteners, maybe that - way to win is a short—term term sweeteners, maybe that can - way to win is a short—term term - sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes _ sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes it— sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes. it might _ sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes. it might be _ sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes. it might be a _ sweeteners, maybe that can prompt mistakes. it might be a very- mistakes. it might be a very entertaining _ mistakes. it might be a very entertaining year. _ mistakes. it might be a very entertaining year. it- mistakes. it might be a very entertaining year.— mistakes. it might be a very entertaining year. it might also be a very long — entertaining year. it might also be a very long vear- _ entertaining year. it might also be a very long year. fraser, - entertaining year. it might also be a very long year. fraser, before i entertaining year. it might also be | a very long year. fraser, before we go to our interview, rishi sunak

said this week that the election will be in the second half of the year but didn't rule it out in the spring. forviewers year but didn't rule it out in the spring. for viewers watching this morning, should they be pretty confident or disappointed or happy that actually the election will probably be in november? it that actually the election will probably be in november? it depends how much you — probably be in november? it depends how much you like _ probably be in november? it depends how much you like tory _ probably be in november? it depends how much you like tory government, | probably be in november? it depends| how much you like tory government, i suppose. but a conference in october, the election in november. but he has the power to call one in may if he wants and he hasn't ruled it out. 50 may if he wants and he hasn't ruled it out. ., �* may if he wants and he hasn't ruled it out, ., �* may if he wants and he hasn't ruled it out. ., �* may if he wants and he hasn't ruled it out. .,�* . it out. so don't pay too much attention _ it out. so don't pay too much attention to _ it out. so don't pay too much attention to it _ it out. so don't pay too much attention to it being - it out. so don't pay too much attention to it being in i it out. so don't pay too much attention to it being in the i it out. so don't pay too much l attention to it being in the last part of the year. it’s attention to it being in the last part of the year.— part of the year. it's not a promise. _ part of the year. it's not a promise. just _ part of the year. it's not a promise, just a _ part of the year. it's not a promise, just a working . part of the year. it's not a _ promise, just a working assumption. although he has the power to make the decision. i know you will be listening closely along with our audience. pencil in the autumn, but don't be totally surprised if it pops up in the spring. either way, the parties this year will spend every waking hour trying to entice you to give them your vote.

because 2024 will see the magical moment when the public is truly in charge in a general election. with the chance to reward the resident of number ten, or kick them out if they've had enough. it will be the fifth general election since 2010, and in all the others, the tories came out on top. her majesty the queen has asked me to form a new government. cheering. i will now form a majority conservative government. not another one! nothing has changed. the conservatives are the largest party. we did it! we pulled it off, didn't we? rishi sunak is here. welcome to the studio, great to have you here at the beginning of a very important

year. so much to talk about, let's talk about immigration. it's one of your top priorities. we also know from documents the bbc saw this week that when you were chancellor you expressed doubts about number ten�*s desire to send migrants to rwanda. do you admit you had reservations? no, and i haven't seen the documents so i can't comment on them specifically. i discussed it with the prime minister and ultimately funded the plans and the scheme and myjob now funded the plans and the scheme and my job now as funded the plans and the scheme and myjob now as prime minister is to get it up and running. i believe it's really important because it is about deterrence. the national crime agency has said you need a deterrent to solve the problem and i believe that. that's why i got a new deal with albania shortly after becoming pm meaning we can return to thousands of people to albania. we have seen the numbers arriving from albania dropped by 90%, showing deterrence works and that's what the rwanda scheme is about, providing that deterrent and it's important to get it through parliament. the documents — get it through parliament. the documents i _ get it through parliament. the documents i have _ get it through parliament. the documents i have seen, number ten

documents i have seen, number ten documents from 2022, describe your view as believing the deterrent would not work. do you deny that? i would not work. do you deny that? i haven't seen the documents so i can't comment on that. do haven't seen the documents so i can't comment on that.- haven't seen the documents so i can't comment on that. do you do know ou can't comment on that. do you do know you had _ can't comment on that. do you do know you had doubts _ can't comment on that. do you do know you had doubts about i can't comment on that. do you do know you had doubts about the i know you had doubts about the deterrent effect of sending people to africa? the deterrent effect of sending people to africa? , ., ., , , to africa? the proof is in my actions will _ to africa? the proof is in my actions will stop _ to africa? the proof is in my actions will stop i _ to africa? the proof is in my actions will stop i obviouslyl actions will stop i obviously believe deterrence works because when i became prime minister i prioritised getting a scheme up and running with albania which is now working. we have returned more than 5000 people to albania as a result of that new deal. we have seen the numbers coming from albania drop by over i9%, showing that deterrence works. that's why i prioritised getting it up and running. at the national crime agency also believes deterrence works. it’s national crime agency also believes deterrence works.— deterrence works. it's important to be c stal deterrence works. it's important to be crystal clear _ deterrence works. it's important to be crystal clear with _ deterrence works. it's important to be crystal clear with the _ deterrence works. it's important to be crystal clear with the audience, | be crystal clear with the audience, we are asking about this controversial scheme to send migrants arriving on uk shores to rwanda. we are not asking about what happened with the returns deal with albania. do you deny completely that

you ever had any doubts about the efficacy or the value for money of sending migrants to rwanda? let’s sending migrants to rwanda? let's se arate sending migrants to rwanda? let's separate these _ sending migrants to rwanda? let's separate these things. _ sending migrants to rwanda? let�*s separate these things. i absolutely believe in the value and importance of having deterrence, and albania and rwanda are linked because they are both returns agreements that allow you to create a deterrent. in terms of the scheme, i was chancellor at the time and myjob is to make sure we get value for money for taxpayers and ask questions whenever anybody wants to spend taxpayers money and i would expect the same thing from the chancellor now. of course i would rigorously scrutinise any proposal crossing my desk. ultimately i agreed with the prime and stanley funded the proposal and the proof is in my actions. ., ., , ., proposal and the proof is in my actions. ., . . actions. you admit you had hesitation about _ actions. you admit you had hesitation about whether . actions. you admit you had | hesitation about whether or actions. you admit you had i hesitation about whether or not actions. you admit you had - hesitation about whether or not the scheme was value for money. you tell people when you moved into number ten you want at the highest standards of accountability and integrity so we are asking about being accountable for how you came to that decision. did you have

hesitations about whether it would be value for money? i hesitations about whether it would be value for money?— hesitations about whether it would be value for money? i think you are ex-aandin be value for money? i think you are exoanding this _ be value for money? i think you are expanding this beyond _ be value for money? i think you are expanding this beyond what - be value for money? i think you are expanding this beyond what it i be value for money? i think you are expanding this beyond what it is. i be value for money? i think you are | expanding this beyond what it is. as chancellor myjob is to scrutinise and ask tough questions of every single proposal that crosses my desk. that's myjob, when i was chancellor. it is the chancellor's job now because ultimately it is all taxpayers money. just because someone asks tough questions doesn't mean they don't believe in the proposal. but what they should be doing is make sure it goes through a process of rigorous scrutiny and i went through that process and ended up went through that process and ended up being satisfied it would deliver, which is why i agreed with the prime minister to fund the proposal. and when i became prime minister we have put new legislation before parliament and we have the albania scheme up and running, a similar version of deterrence. i’m scheme up and running, a similar version of deterrence.— version of deterrence. i'm not sa in: version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's _ version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's a — version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's a good _ version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's a good or— version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's a good or bad i version of deterrence. i'm not saying it's a good or bad thing version of deterrence. i'm not i saying it's a good or bad thing for you as chancellor to ask those questions. i'm also not suggesting it was good or bad for you to have doubts and change your mind, but this is one of your core priorities now so i want to be crystal clear

with the audience, are you admitting you had hesitations... ida. with the audience, are you admitting you had hesitations. . .— you had hesitations... no, that's the distinction _ you had hesitations... no, that's the distinction you _ you had hesitations... no, that's the distinction you are _ you had hesitations... no, that's the distinction you are trying i you had hesitations... no, that's the distinction you are trying to i the distinction you are trying to draw which i don't think is fair. what did you have then? my draw which i don't think is fair. what did you have then? my “0b is to ask robin what did you have then? my “0b is to ask probing questions i what did you have then? my “0b is to ask probing questions ofi what did you have then? my job is to ask probing questions of every i ask probing questions of every proposal that crosses my desk as chancellor. whether you have doubts about it or not, you should not come to it with a preconceived notion everything is fine when you are spending taxpayers money. of course you shouldn't. you should always ask probing questions and approach from the position of scepticism to ensure value for money for taxpayers. that's the job of the chancellor and treasury when things cross their desk. but to inferfrom treasury when things cross their desk. but to infer from that that i don't believe in the scheme or the principle of deterrence is wrong. i was doing myjob to get good value for money for taxpayers, i went through the process, funded the scheme as prime minister. as prime minster myself i have made sure we have a similar deterrence working with albania and i have made the point that it is because albania is working that we should have

confidence the rwanda scheme would work too. it is confidence the rwanda scheme would work too. , . ., , confidence the rwanda scheme would worktoo. , . ., , ., work too. it is curious that the view of number _ work too. it is curious that the view of number ten, _ work too. it is curious that the view of number ten, as i work too. it is curious that the view of number ten, as the i work too. it is curious that the - view of number ten, as the documents i have seen clearly say, that you had doubts about the deterrence. i want to get this absolutely on the record and i am not asking you to comment on documents that are leaked. i want to say completely clearly whether you had any doubts about whether or not sending migrants to africa from uk shores would put people off making the journey across the channel. this hasn't been _ journey across the channel. this hasn't been tried _ journey across the channel. try 3 hasn't been tried before in our country. it is fair to say it is novel. i have been clear that it is a novel scheme. but we should have more confidence today it should work because we have the returns agreement with albania that is working incredibly well. it’s agreement with albania that is working incredibly well.- working incredibly well. it's a completely — working incredibly well. it's a completely separate - working incredibly well. it's a completely separate thing i working incredibly well. it's a completely separate thing about sending people back to the country they have come from. i sending people back to the country they have come from.— they have come from. i believe the --rincile they have come from. i believe the principle is — they have come from. i believe the principle is the _ they have come from. i believe the principle is the same. _ they have come from. i believe the principle is the same. the - they have come from. i believe the principle is the same. the principle is this, if you come here illegally you should not be able to stay here and you will be returned either to your home country or indeed to a safe alternative like rwanda. the

principle is you shouldn't be able to said they here because we have somewhere else to send you an that's the deterrence that is so important, the deterrence that is so important, the national crime agency agrees and that's why i am keen to get the scheme up and running. people, they will disagree, and the labour party disagrees with the principle of having a deterrence and a working returns agreement. my view is you can't solve the problem without having a proper deterrent and rwanda is how we will do that. keir having a proper deterrent and rwanda is how we will do that.— is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here — is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here next _ is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here next week _ is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here next week and - is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here next week and we i is how we will do that. keir starmer will be here next week and we will. will be here next week and we will put those questions to him. today we are here to talk about what you think. these are critically important, notjust because it is important, notjust because it is important to the public, notjust because you have made it a centrepiece of your premiership, but also some of your colleagues are not really convinced that you really mean what you say when it comes to immigration. the man who was immigration minister until not long ago, robertjenrick, a friend and former ally of yours, he said this morning that your position is

sophistry, in other words you are misleading people, you don't really need it. you say you will do whatever it takes to get the policy off the ground and you want to pass new laws to do that. but this is a technical question but a very important one, if the european courts put down what is called the rule 39, an emergency measure to stop a plane taking off from the uk to go to rwanda, would you ever be willing to ignore a rule 39 order dressed in yellow there is a lot in there, but what i would say first and foremost, i am determined to stop the boats. find and foremost, i am determined to stop the boats-— stop the boats. and i believe it's im ortant stop the boats. and i believe it's important because _ stop the boats. and i believe it's important because it's _ stop the boats. and i believe it's important because it's a - stop the boats. and i believe it's important because it's a simple l important because it's a simple matter of fairness. this is not something abstract or practical, this is about fairness. i don't believe it is right for people to jump believe it is right for people to jump the queue and come to the country illegally and putting untold pressure on public services. you have said _ pressure on public services. you have said it _ pressure on public services. you have said it before _ pressure on public services. you have said it before many times but i would like you to address the specific, would you ever ignore a rule 39? i specific, would you ever ignore a rule 39? . , , . .,

rule 39? i have been very clear about this. _ rule 39? i have been very clear about this, i— rule 39? i have been very clear about this, i will _ rule 39? i have been very clear about this, i will not _ rule 39? i have been very clear about this, i will not let i rule 39? i have been very clear about this, i will not let a i rule 39? i have been very clear. about this, i will not let a foreign court stopped our ability to remove people once we have been through our process of parliament and our court system. i have been crystal clear about that. does that mean ignoring a rule 39? forgive me, you have said you will do whatever it takes, you will not let a foreign court to stop it happening, the practical way in which that could happen would be a rule 39, would you ever ignore a rule 39, would you ever ignore a rule 39? ., , ., , ,, rule 39, would you ever ignore a rule39? ., , .,, ,,, rule 39, would you ever ignore a rule39? ., , ., , ,, , ., rule 39? lots of steps between now and then, rule 39? lots of steps between now and then. i— rule 39? lots of steps between now and then. lam _ rule 39? lots of steps between now and then, i am entirely _ rule 39? lots of steps between now and then, i am entirely confident i and then, i am entirely confident what we are doing is entirely complied with international obligations. i have been crystal clear, i will not let a foreign court blocked our ability to remove people safely to rwanda. you court blocked our ability to remove people safely to rwanda.— people safely to rwanda. you will not answer _ people safely to rwanda. you will not answer the _ people safely to rwanda. you will not answer the question. - people safely to rwanda. you will not answer the question. i i people safely to rwanda. you will not answer the question. i have i people safely to rwanda. you will. not answer the question. i have been ve clear. not answer the question. i have been very clear- when _ not answer the question. i have been very clear. when it _ not answer the question. i have been very clear. when it comes _ not answer the question. i have been very clear. when it comes to - not answer the question. i have been very clear. when it comes to the i very clear. when it comes to the specifics of how we do this, first, we have to get the bill through parliament and i am sure when keir starmer is here next week i am sure

he will ask him, why are you not supportive of a workable deterrent like rwanda? we will make sure we can safely remove people. that is how i believe we will solve the problem. you asked before which i think is incredibly important, i really committed to resolving the problem? here are the facts, before i became prime minister, the number of illegal arrivals into the country across the channel had quadruple... the is... , ., ., ., the is... they have gone down because the is. .. they have gone down because of— the is... they have gone down because of the _ the is... they have gone down because of the actions - the is. .. they have gone down because of the actions of- the is... they have gone down because of the actions of this | because of the actions of this government, not by a little, down by over a third. whilst across the rest of europe it has risen. the track record... of europe it has risen. the track record- - -— record... we have a lot to talk about this _ record... we have a lot to talk about this morning _ record... we have a lot to talk about this morning and i record. .. we have a lot to talk about this morning and i i record... we have a lot to talk| about this morning and i really record... we have a lot to talk- about this morning and i really want to move on. i also want to say, you say you are been crystal clear, crystal clear also this morning you are not answering the question about whether you would ignore a rule 39. i want to point it out. you have answered... you have an answer that. we must move on. you

answered. .. you have an answer that. we must move on.— we must move on. you can read the leuislation we must move on. you can read the legislation we _ we must move on. you can read the legislation we are _ we must move on. you can read the legislation we are passing _ we must move on. you can read the legislation we are passing very i legislation we are passing very specifically which addresses the issue of making it crystal clear it issue of making it crystal clear it is a matter of ministers deciding on the circumstances of the rule 39. you cannot give a blanket answer but the legislation is crystal clear it is ministers will have the power to decide about rule 39 and i have been clear i will not let a foreign court blocked our ability to remove people safely to rwanda once the bellows through parliament.— safely to rwanda once the bellows through parliament. another promise the ublic, through parliament. another promise the public. we _ through parliament. another promise the public, we talked _ through parliament. another promise the public, we talked about _ through parliament. another promise the public, we talked about this i the public, we talked about this year ago, the public, we talked about this yearago, he the public, we talked about this year ago, he promised to get waiting lists down, there has been some progress on those waiting the longest, but overall, waiting lists are still going. is it actually still a promise you are you are committed to?— still a promise you are you are committed to? , ., .., , . committed to? yes, of course. when i made the pledge. _ committed to? yes, of course. when i made the pledge, thank— committed to? yes, of course. when i made the pledge, thank you _ committed to? yes, of course. when i made the pledge, thank you for i made the pledge, thank you for acknowledging we have made progress on the longest weights. we have said it would be in spring of this year

we would see the waiting lists full properly. in spite of the record resources we have put into the nhs, more doctors and nurses, community diagnostic centres, we are treating more people than ever before about waiting lists have not come down. 7.71 million people waiting... for 7.71 million people waiting... far too lonu. 7.71 million people waiting... far too long- it _ 7.71 million people waiting... far too long- it is — 7.71 million people waiting... far too long. it is on _ 7.71 million people waiting... far too long. it is on your— 7.71 million people waiting... far too long. it is on your watch. i 7.71 million people waiting... far. too long. it is on your watch. yes, that has happened _ too long. it is on your watch. yes, that has happened on _ too long. it is on your watch. yes, that has happened on my - too long. it is on your watch. yes, that has happened on my watch, | too long. it is on your watch. yes, that has happened on my watch, i | that has happened on my watch, i accept that, we have put in record resources, more doctors and nurses, community diagnostic centres, doing the right things, treating more people, obviously been hindered by industrial action. people, obviously been hindered by industrialaction. if people, obviously been hindered by industrial action. if you see what happened towards the end of last year, we had a period without any strikes in the nhs and we saw the waiting lists full, tens of thousands, 65,000 in october, waiting lists started to full when you had a period without industrial action —— we saw the waiting lists fall. once we can resolve outstanding industrial action, we will be able to see waiting lists

fall because of the extra investment into the nhs. fall because of the extra investment into the nhs-— into the nhs. strikes had been the roblem into the nhs. strikes had been the problem and _ into the nhs. strikes had been the problem and the _ into the nhs. strikes had been the problem and the evidence - into the nhs. strikes had been the problem and the evidence on i into the nhs. strikes had been the problem and the evidence on howl into the nhs. strikes had been the i problem and the evidence on how much they contribute to waiting lists is mixed, but clearly part of the problem, are you willing to improve your offer to junior doctors? there is nearly 9% already offered to them and another 3% on the table, but to get them back to work, to stop this having an impact for patients, would you put more on the table? we alread you put more on the table? - already have and i think again if you look at the government's track record when it comes to resolving industrial action... record when it comes to resolving industrialaction... i record when it comes to resolving industrial action. . ._ industrial action... i am asking if ou industrial action... i am asking if you would _ industrial action. .. i am asking if you would put— industrial action... i am asking if you would put more? _ industrial action... i am asking if you would put more? it - industrial action... i am asking if you would put more? it is i industrial action... i am asking if i you would put more? it is important to have the — you would put more? it is important to have the context. _ you would put more? it is important to have the context. the _ you would put more? it is importantl to have the context. the government has reached a resolution with every other part of the nhs, nurses, midwives, paramedics, consultant doctors, specialty doctors most recently, so every other part of the nhs workforce and i am grateful to them has reached a resolution with them has reached a resolution with the government on a reasonable, fair pay settlement. the only people that

haven't are the junior doctors. the numbers you gave demonstrate that the pay offer the junior doctors already have is more generous than any other part of the nhs. those are the facts. given that we have managed to find resolution everywhere else, and the junior doctors have now the most generous payoff out of anybody in the nhs, i would strongly urge them to come back, talk to the government, so we can resolve the industrial action and start getting waiting lists down as the evidence shows we can do when there are not strikes. lloathed as the evidence shows we can do when there are not strikes.— there are not strikes. what do you think the chances _ there are not strikes. what do you think the chances are _ there are not strikes. what do you think the chances are of _ there are not strikes. what do you think the chances are of resolving | think the chances are of resolving it? ., , think the chances are of resolving it? . , ., , ., ., it? ultimately a question for the “unior it? ultimately a question for the junior doctors. _ it? ultimately a question for the junior doctors, why _ it? ultimately a question for the junior doctors, why when i it? ultimately a question for the junior doctors, why when they . it? ultimately a question for the i junior doctors, why when they have the most generous pay settlement in the most generous pay settlement in the nhs, when every other part of the nhs, when every other part of the nhs, when every other part of the nhs workforce, nurses, midwives, paramedics, consultant doctors, they have reached an agreement with the government, why haven't they? what is clear is we can get the waiting lists down when we do not have strikes, that is what the numbers show and that is what everybody

wants to see. i would urge the doctors to come back around the table to get everyone back in and we can start getting waiting lists falling which is what everyone wants. ~ , , falling which is what everyone wants. , , , wants. many people watching this mornin: wants. many people watching this morning might — wants. many people watching this morning might wish _ wants. many people watching this morning might wish your- wants. many people watching this | morning might wish your ministers had tried to resolve the strikes a long time ago because for many months some of your colleagues said, no more money. and there was more money in the end. the strikes and many people's view have contributed to a sense many people feel things are not working very well. one of the viewers wanted us to put this to you, he said, from nhs delivery to potholes and everything in between, delivery is getting worse, not good enough to blame covid, the bottom line is it feels worse in this country for many ordinary people. is he wrong? i country for many ordinary people. is he wron: ? . , country for many ordinary people. is he wron. ? ., . .,, country for many ordinary people. is hewron? ., , he wrong? i was here almost exactly a ear he wrong? i was here almost exactly a year ago. — he wrong? i was here almost exactly a year ago. talking — he wrong? i was here almost exactly a year ago, talking about _ he wrong? i was here almost exactly a year ago, talking about the - a year ago, talking about the outlook for the country over last year, if you think about what was being said then, people were projecting we would have a year—long

deep recession this year. in fact, we have avoided that, outperformed countries like germany. inflation having an impact on gary and everyone else, running at close to 11%, everyone else, running at close to ii%, no more than halved, less than 4%. -- ii%, no more than halved, less than li%. —— now more than halved. the notion we would be able to cut taxes for people like gary was fanciful but in fact the chancellor has announced £20 billion of tax cuts. let us be clear on that point... for someone — let us be clear on that point... igfr' someone earning £35,000, a tax cut of £450. we have made progress, the plan is working, starting to deliver the long term change the country needs that i want to deliver for gary and the job needs that i want to deliver for gary and thejob is needs that i want to deliver for gary and the job is to stick to the plan so we can give him and everyone else peace of mind that future is going to be betterfor their children and we can have a renewed sense of pride in the country. fin sense of pride in the country. on the point of taxation, we must be clear with people, for those who have the least and the most, not

seen a reduction in tax bills at the moment, the tax burden overall is at a record high. you have done your cut to national insurance but not as simple as you have just suggested. if i can answer that, you have said very important thing. for those on the lowest incomes, we raised the national insurance threshold, personal allowance, so you can now get £1000 a month without paying any tax or national insurance, we did that, disproportionately obviously benefits the lowest paid. national living wage went up by record amounts last year and this year. tax cuts, an average person working earning £35,000 from this weekend seeing a tax cut of £450.— seeing a tax cut of £450. overall... it will make — seeing a tax cut of £450. overall... it will make a _ seeing a tax cut of £450. overall... it will make a difference _ seeing a tax cut of £450. overall... it will make a difference to - seeing a tax cut of £450. overall... it will make a difference to people. it will make a difference to people like gary and everyone else. overall... the tax burden is higher thanit overall... the tax burden is higher than it has ever been and many people will see an improvement from this set of changes but many people will not. you told the sunday

telegraph... z? will not. you told the sunday telegraph- - -_ will not. you told the sunday telegraph... will not. you told the sunday telea-rah... ., , telegraph... 27 million people in work will see _ telegraph... 27 million people in work will see a _ telegraph... 27 million people in work will see a tax _ telegraph... 27 million people in work will see a tax cut. - telegraph... 27 million people in work will see a tax cut. you - telegraph... 27 million people in work will see a tax cut. you told | work will see a tax cut. you told the sunday _ work will see a tax cut. you told the sunday telegraph _ work will see a tax cut. you told the sunday telegraph your - work will see a tax cut. you told i the sunday telegraph your priority is cutting taxes not more government spending. you said the way to do thatis spending. you said the way to do that is to have a smaller public sector. which bits do you want to shrink? it sector. which bits do you want to shrink? , ., ,., ., sector. which bits do you want to shrink? , ., ., ., shrink? it is about the rate of urowth shrink? it is about the rate of growth between _ shrink? it is about the rate of growth between the - shrink? it is about the rate of growth between the economy shrink? it is about the rate of - growth between the economy and public services. my priority going forward which the chancellor reiterated at the weekend, joint priority for the country, to make sure we control spending, control welfare, chocolate people's taxes. who will lose their benefits? —— cat people's taxes. we have said no to lots of things people wanted us to do, talking about public sector pay, an example of why it is the wrong thing to do to say we should say yes to whatever. .. thing to do to say we should say yes to whatever... we thing to do to say we should say yes to whatever. . ._ to whatever... we 'ust had that conversation. _ to whatever. .. we just had that conversation. either— to whatever... we just had that conversation. either way, - to whatever... we just had that conversation. either way, keiri conversation. eitherway, keir opposed any one of those difficult decisions and i am sure you will ask him which ones he agrees... it

requires discipline and making those difficult decisions and that is what i have done. difficult decisions and that is what i have done-— difficult decisions and that is what i have done. ., ., ., , i have done. you have said the only wa to i have done. you have said the only way to cut — i have done. you have said the only way to cut taxes _ i have done. you have said the only way to cut taxes is _ i have done. you have said the only way to cut taxes is to _ i have done. you have said the only way to cut taxes is to have - i have done. you have said the only way to cut taxes is to have a - way to cut taxes is to have a smaller public sector and you said you pointed to the welfare budget, so who will expect to have less generous welfare payments? 1 did so who will expect to have less generous welfare payments? i did not 'ust oint to generous welfare payments? i did not just point to the _ generous welfare payments? i did not just point to the welfare _ generous welfare payments? i did not just point to the welfare budget, - generous welfare payments? i did not just point to the welfare budget, it. just point to the welfare budget, it is across the board, it is about discipline on public sector pay, one example, we have done last year, finding ways to make fair pay settlements. i made a decision before the chancellor to reduce the aid budget. that isn't in keir starmer labour party opposed —— that is something keir starmer and the labour party oppose. we have seen a very significant rise in the number of people deemed unfit to work in the last couple of years and that is something concerning to me. i believe very strongly in the importance of hard work and rewarding hard work which is why we are cutting taxes on work this

weekend very significantly. in the last decade, the system has not been reformed at all and you have seen the number of people signed off has tripled. do i think the country is three times sicker than a decade ago? no. the system is not working as it was designed to work. we are bringing forward reforms to look at the eligibility of who is signed off sick, that will not affect those on existing benefits, it will come in over time and that is something that is the right thing, it is about fairness. making sure everybody who can work does work and for everyone who is working hard, we reward the hard work with tax cuts. it is a conservative approach, right for our country and again i am sure you will ask keir starmer next week whether he agrees. ask keir starmer next week whether he a . rees. , ., ask keir starmer next week whether he arees. , ., , , he agrees. trying to helpfully sun est he agrees. trying to helpfully suggest lots _ he agrees. trying to helpfully suggest lots of _ he agrees. trying to helpfully suggest lots of questions - he agrees. trying to helpfully suggest lots of questions for| he agrees. trying to helpfully - suggest lots of questions for keir starmer, he will be here next week. this week, you are here to answer about your approach. we will talk more about your approach and the

election in a few minutes. i want to touch on a few things that have really raised people's eyebrows in the last few months. the scandal at the last few months. the scandal at the post office has shone a light on how many lives were ruined, itv drama has highlighted what happened there, we will be talking to a sub—postmaster later, susan wright, postmistress, this question. you can watch it. what are you going to do to ensure we get fair and final compensation, not in dribs and drabs? and not at a snail's pace. please stop making us feel — still feel — like victims. i want to remind our viewers the post office is wholly owned by the government, so that perhaps point has not been made that much. 11 out of 475 of the full and final compensation deals have been completed. can you set a deadline, tell people like susan, when it will be sorted out?— be sorted out? everyone has been shocked by _ be sorted out? everyone has been shocked by watching _ be sorted out? everyone has been

shocked by watching what - be sorted out? everyone has been shocked by watching what they - be sorted out? everyone has been l shocked by watching what they have done over the past few days and beyond and it is an appalling miscarriage ofjustice. something that happened a very long time ago in the 90s but hearing about it again shows what an appalling miscarriage ofjustice it is for everyone affected and it is important that people get the justice they deserve.- important that people get the justice they deserve. should be exonerated? _ justice they deserve. should be exonerated? the _ justice they deserve. should be exonerated? the government | justice they deserve. should be i exonerated? the government has justice they deserve. should be - exonerated? the government has paid out about almost _ exonerated? the government has paid out about almost £150 _ exonerated? the government has paid out about almost £150 million - exonerated? the government has paid out about almost £150 million to - out about almost £150 million to thousands of people already, of course we want to get the money to the people as quickly as possible. that is why there are interim payments of up to i think £600,000 that can be made, three different schemes available, and for anyone affected, they should come forward, talk to the relevant body's... affected, they should come forward, talk to the relevant body's. . .- talk to the relevant body's. .. where ou take talk to the relevant body's. .. where you take extra _ talk to the relevant body's. .. where you take extra measures? - talk to the relevant body's. .. where you take extra measures? there - talk to the relevant body's. .. where you take extra measures? there is. talk to the relevant body's. .. where | you take extra measures? there is a report the justice secretary is considering looking at exonerating everyone, a recommendation that has been made, or taking the post

office's ability to investigate and prosecute away, would you like to see that happen? the prosecute away, would you like to see that happen?— see that happen? the justice secretary _ see that happen? the justice secretary is _ see that happen? the justice secretary is looking - see that happen? the justice secretary is looking at - see that happen? the justice secretary is looking at those| secretary is looking at those things, would not be right to pre—empt the process, legal complexity and all of those things, but he is looking at exactly those areas you have described. it is right we find every which way we can do to try to make this right for the people so wrongfully tweeted at the time, compensation is part of that, but as you say, there are legal things that might be possible. there are potentially _ things that might be possible. there are potentially on _ things that might be possible. there are potentially on the _ things that might be possible. there are potentially on the table. - things that might be possible. there are potentially on the table. i - are potentially on the table. i would not want to speculate. those are the types of things been looked at. ~ . , are the types of things been looked at. ., are the types of things been looked at. . , at. what is also riling people is the mess around _ at. what is also riling people is the mess around ppe - at. what is also riling people is - the mess around ppe procurement in covid. i'm sure before christmas you saw michelle mone former conservative peer admitting she lied about her involvement in a ppe deal but she also believes very strongly she and her husband have been made scapegoats, a criminal investigation, i would scapegoats, a criminal investigation, iwould not scapegoats, a criminal investigation, i would not expect you to comment on that, but many ppe

contracts seem to have gone wrong, £9 billion of waste. how are you trying to get money back from other companies involved in the waste of billions of pounds on the pandemic? will anyone else be held accountable? anybody who took advantage of an incredibly difficult time for our country, to either defraud the public or do things that were illegal should be pursued with the full force of the law. we were all going through an awful time as a country and thejob going through an awful time as a country and the job was to get ppe to those on the front line who needed it. everyone will remember how stressful that was. if people who were trying to take advantage of that system and defraud the taxpayer, that is completely and utterly wrong, appalling, and we should pursue them with the full force of the law. [30 should pursue them with the full force of the law.— force of the law. do you believe that the people _ force of the law. do you believe that the people date? - force of the law. do you believe that the people date? there - force of the law. do you believe | that the people date? there are rocesses that the people date? there are processes the _ that the people date? there are processes the government - that the people date? there are processes the government has i that the people date? there are i processes the government has too that the people date? there are - processes the government has too do those investigations and that diligence. where we believe that has

happened to the government will take action. in this particular instance the government has taken legal action against the company in question which is why i can't comment and more generally you wouldn't expect me to comment on individual cases. i take the matter incredibly seriously, it is wrong if that happened and where there is evidence of it to the government will pursue people with a full force of the law because that's the right thing to do. people shouldn't be able to get away with things like that. �* , . ~ able to get away with things like that. �*, ., ~ ., able to get away with things like that. �*, ., ., able to get away with things like that. �*, ., ~ ., that. let's talk politics, you said this week the _ that. let's talk politics, you said this week the general _ that. let's talk politics, you said this week the general election i that. let's talk politics, you said - this week the general election would be in the second half of the year. it seems like some of your mps are trying to make it happen in a slow and painful way to make their own decisions and to pack up and go home. tory mp chris skidmore said he was off this week and he wasn't very obliging about what you have been doing in government. there have been five by—elections since she became prime minister and 53 tory mps have said they will stand down. how can viewers have confidence in your project when so many of your own team, who are meant to be on your own team, are walking away? it has

been a tough _ own team, are walking away? it has been a tough time _ own team, are walking away? it has been a tough time for _ own team, are walking away? it has been a tough time for our _ own team, are walking away? it has been a tough time for our country i been a tough time for our country over the past year or two with the legacy of covid and the impact it had on backlogs, the war in ukraine on the impact on inflation and energy bills but i genuinely believe we have turned the corner and the country is pointing in the right direction. the plans we have put in place are starting to deliver the long term change our country needs to see. myjob is to talk to everybody show them we can stick with the plan because it is starting to work to deliver change that the country needs, the long term change the country needs. we have talked about it already this interview, the progress we have been making. of course i know there is more to do but progress is being made and the country is pointing in the right direction and if we stick to the plan we can continue to deliver the long term change the country needs and that's ultimately how we will provide everybody with a piece of mind that the future will be better for their children and there will be only a renewed sense of pride in the united kingdom. you

only a renewed sense of pride in the united kingdom.— united kingdom. you said long term chance a a united kingdom. you said long term change a a few— united kingdom. you said long term change a a few times, _ united kingdom. you said long term change a a few times, we _ united kingdom. you said long term change a a few times, we might - united kingdom. you said long term| change a a few times, we might have heard a slogan there. keir starmer set out a mantra for the public this week, going with project hope. i asked some of your colleagues what their slogan for the conservative party would be for the next election. here is a select few. secure the recovery. things can only get better. atg version of what was said to me, we are a bit rubbish but the other lot would be tonnes worse. would you pick any of those? it’s would you pick any of those? it's not about would you pick any of those? it�*s not aboutjust would you pick any of those? it�*s not about just slogans, it's would you pick any of those? it�*s not aboutjust slogans, it's more important than that. we have had a tough time but the plans we put in place are working, we are making progress, pointing in the right direction and the choice there was to stick to the plan. that's what i'm going to do because the plan will deliver the long term change that our country needs. it is starting to do that and if we stick to it then we can ensure everyone has the peace of mind that the future will be for their better children and we can have a renewed sense of pride in the uk. that's my job for the year, that's what i will

be talking to people about and i feel upbeat because of the progress we have made and we are pointing in the right direction.— the right direction. prime minister rishi sunak, _ the right direction. prime minister rishi sunak, thank _ the right direction. prime minister rishi sunak, thank you _ the right direction. prime minister rishi sunak, thank you for - the right direction. prime minister rishi sunak, thank you for coming 1 the right direction. prime minister i rishi sunak, thank you for coming in live in the studio. email us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk or on social media use the hashtag #bbclaurak and we'll try and share some of the conversation later in the show. let's get the thoughts of the panel. louise, i think we heard a slogan quite a few times, stick to the plan, long term change, it is starting to work. what do you think? i feel a starting to work. what do you think? ifeel a bit sad, actually, because we are _ ifeel a bit sad, actually, because we are in— ifeel a bit sad, actually, because we are injust the most extraordinary place in our country. i have _ extraordinary place in our country. i have just — extraordinary place in our country. i have just done a series on radio four called — i have just done a series on radio four called fixing britain, and we need _ four called fixing britain, and we need to— four called fixing britain, and we need to fix— four called fixing britain, and we need to fix britain. i didn't take from _ need to fix britain. i didn't take from that— need to fix britain. i didn't take from that any sense that there is an acceptance — from that any sense that there is an acceptance that things are as bad for people as they are, laura, and things— for people as they are, laura, and things are — for people as they are, laura, and things are really bad for an awful lot of— things are really bad for an awful lot of people out there. and spain

is such— lot of people out there. and spain is such a _ lot of people out there. and spain is such a dangerous thing. to say those _ is such a dangerous thing. to say those are — is such a dangerous thing. to say those are the facts when they are not the _ those are the facts when they are not the facts, they are really not the facts — not the facts, they are really not the facts -- _ not the facts, they are really not the facts. —— and spin is such a dangerous— the facts. —— and spin is such a dangerous thing. from talking about the boats. _ dangerous thing. from talking about the boats, ratherthan dangerous thing. from talking about the boats, rather than giving the immigration policy, we just get headlines. we hear they will always crackdown — headlines. we hear they will always crackdown on welfare, but it isn't working _ crackdown on welfare, but it isn't working from as far as i can see. we are in— working from as far as i can see. we are inan— working from as far as i can see. we are in an invidious position, the luy are in an invidious position, the guy is— are in an invidious position, the guy is running to a general election. _ guy is running to a general election, he seems an ok bloke, was a decent _ election, he seems an ok bloke, was a decent chancellor despite terrible things. _ a decent chancellor despite terrible things, but he was selling nonsense. it was _ things, but he was selling nonsense. it was ringing hollow one thing after— it was ringing hollow one thing after the — it was ringing hollow one thing after the other. i can't help but hear— after the other. i can't help but hear it— after the other. i can't help but hear it in— after the other. i can't help but hear it in my tone, a cross between angry— hear it in my tone, a cross between angry and _ hear it in my tone, a cross between angry and upset. and the kick around junior— angry and upset. and the kick around junior doctors, people need to know that people have trained for seven years _ that people have trained for seven years and — that people have trained for seven years and hold our lives in their hands — years and hold our lives in their hands. these are not trainees or medical— hands. these are not trainees or medical students. we are paying them £15 per— medical students. we are paying them £15 per hour. it all rings hollow.

what _ £15 per hour. it all rings hollow. what i _ £15 per hour. it all rings hollow. what i wanted was some acceptance that actually britain is pretty low, actually, — that actually britain is pretty low, actually, and a lot of people in britain — actually, and a lot of people in britain will not feel these tax cuts — britain will not feel these tax cuts. and the idea that all these people _ cuts. and the idea that all these people are benefit scroungers, when most of _ people are benefit scroungers, when most of them are working, the vast nraiority_ most of them are working, the vast majority of— most of them are working, the vast majority of people on benefits are working — majority of people on benefits are working. so, yeah, i'm not the happiest — working. so, yeah, i'm not the happiest person to start the programme with, i'm afraid. fraser, sin and programme with, i'm afraid. fraser, spin and nonsense, _ programme with, i'm afraid. fraser, spin and nonsense, says _ programme with, i'm afraid. fraser, spin and nonsense, says louise. - programme with, i'm afraid. fraser, spin and nonsense, says louise. isl spin and nonsense, says louise. is that fair? in some cases yes, and some not. there will probably be progress this year on things like inflation and mortgage rates and perhaps immigration. take the tax line, he is talking about taxes that are falling, national insurance, but isn't mentioning how the thresholds are going down. overall taxes are going up. if you are working 35 hours a week your income tax will go

up hours a week your income tax will go up by hours a week your income tax will go up by 50% due to new stealth taxes. he says somebody on 35 grand won't be affected by the threshold changes but millions more will be taken into income tax, into a higher rate of income tax, into a higher rate of income tax. that's how taxes are going up. his income tax. that's how taxes are oiiin u, , income tax. that's how taxes are auoin u. , , income tax. that's how taxes are ioini u-. , , ., going up. his point is that 27 million people _ going up. his point is that 27 million people will— going up. his point is that 27 million people will benefit i going up. his point is that 27 i million people will benefit from going up. his point is that 27 - million people will benefit from the changes in particular and after pressure from conservative backbenchers to do something on tax, cut some kind of tax, he has been able to do that after a very difficult time. he able to do that after a very difficult time.— able to do that after a very difficult time. . , , �* , , difficult time. he has, but let's be more credible, _ difficult time. he has, but let's be more credible, he _ difficult time. he has, but let's be more credible, he should - difficult time. he has, but let's be more credible, he should say - difficult time. he has, but let's be more credible, he should say yes, taxes are rising less fast than otherwise but they are still going up. and on welfare, he talks about the changes he will make but what he didn't tell you is that his own department for work and pensions will assess the plans and say, what are they going to do. that came out are they going to do. that came out a few weeks ago and didn't get any publicity but it said the welfare bill will rise by something like 920 people per day being added onto disability benefits because the

reforms are not enough. it is well—intentioned but not enough to stop a massive increase in welfare and therefore taxation. what stop a massive increase in welfare and therefore taxation.— stop a massive increase in welfare and therefore taxation. what did you make of it jon? _ and therefore taxation. what did you make of it jon? it _ and therefore taxation. what did you make of it jon? it is _ and therefore taxation. what did you make of it jon? it is fascinating - and therefore taxation. what did you make of it jon? it is fascinating to i make of it jon? it is fascinating to watch the ark _ make of it jon? it is fascinating to watch the ark of _ make of it jon? it is fascinating to watch the ark of the _ make of it jon? it is fascinating to watch the ark of the interview. i make of it jon? it is fascinating to l watch the ark of the interview. the central _ watch the ark of the interview. the central part — watch the ark of the interview. the central part there _ watch the ark of the interview. the central part there seems _ watch the ark of the interview. the central part there seems to - watch the ark of the interview. the central part there seems to be i watch the ark of the interview. the. central part there seems to be much more _ central part there seems to be much more frustration, _ central part there seems to be much more frustration, petulance - central part there seems to be much more frustration, petulance and i more frustration, petulance and impatience _ more frustration, petulance and impatience that— more frustration, petulance and impatience that simmered i more frustration, petulance and impatience that simmered up i more frustration, petulance and - impatience that simmered up through. at the _ impatience that simmered up through. at the beginning. _ impatience that simmered up through. at the beginning, the _ impatience that simmered up through. at the beginning, the phrase _ impatience that simmered up through. at the beginning, the phrase you i at the beginning, the phrase you often _ at the beginning, the phrase you often hear— at the beginning, the phrase you often hear in— at the beginning, the phrase you often hear in interviews, - at the beginning, the phrase you often hear in interviews, i- at the beginning, the phrase youi often hear in interviews, i haven't read _ often hear in interviews, i haven't read the — often hear in interviews, i haven't read the documents, _ often hear in interviews, i haven't read the documents, it— often hear in interviews, i haven't read the documents, it would bel read the documents, it would be wrong _ read the documents, it would be wrong to— read the documents, it would be wrong to comment. _ read the documents, it would be wrong to comment. it _ read the documents, it would be wrong to comment. it seems- read the documents, it would be i wrong to comment. it seems rather surprising _ wrong to comment. it seems rather surprising how— wrong to comment. it seems rather surprising how few— wrong to comment. it seems rather surprising how few documents, i wrong to comment. it seems rather| surprising how few documents, very important _ surprising how few documents, very important politicians _ surprising how few documents, very important politicians seem - surprising how few documents, very important politicians seem to - surprising how few documents, very important politicians seem to be i important politicians seem to be reading — important politicians seem to be reading i— important politicians seem to be reading. ithink— important politicians seem to be reading. i think that _ important politicians seem to be reading. i think that probably. important politicians seem to be i reading. i think that probably gives a licence _ reading. i think that probably gives a licence for — reading. i think that probably gives a licence for a _ reading. i think that probably gives a licence for a little _ reading. i think that probably gives a licence for a little bit more - a licence for a little bit more vagaries— a licence for a little bit more vagaries in the _ a licence for a little bit more vagaries in the answers, i a licence for a little bit more i vagaries in the answers, more a licence for a little bit more - vagaries in the answers, more room to move _ vagaries in the answers, more room to move do— vagaries in the answers, more room to move. ,, , vagaries in the answers, more room to move. y., , , vagaries in the answers, more room to move. , , ,, .,~ to move. do you believe rishi sunak when ou to move. do you believe rishi sunak when you hear— to move. do you believe rishi sunak when you hear him _ to move. do you believe rishi sunak when you hear him speak? - to move. do you believe rishi sunak when you hear him speak? it - to move. do you believe rishi sunak when you hear him speak? it seems| to move. do you believe rishi sunaki when you hear him speak? it seems to be a ireat when you hear him speak? it seems to be a great sense _ when you hear him speak? it seems to be a great sense of— when you hear him speak? it seems to be a great sense of frustration - when you hear him speak? it seems to be a great sense of frustration and i be a great sense of frustration and dealing _ be a great sense of frustration and dealing with — be a great sense of frustration and dealing with impossibility - be a great sense of frustration and dealing with impossibility and i be a great sense of frustration and dealing with impossibility and just| dealing with impossibility and just trying _ dealing with impossibility and just trying to— dealing with impossibility and just trying to make _ dealing with impossibility and just trying to make it— dealing with impossibility and just trying to make it seem _ dealing with impossibility and just trying to make it seem as- trying to make it seem as perceivable _ trying to make it seem as perceivable you _ trying to make it seem as. perceivable you organised as possible _ perceivable you organised as possible but _ perceivable you organised as possible. but there - perceivable you organised as possible. but there seems i perceivable you organised as| possible. but there seems to perceivable you organised as i possible. but there seems to be a holiowness — possible. but there seems to be a

hollowness there. _ possible. but there seems to be a hollowness there. stick _ possible. but there seems to be a hollowness there. stick with i possible. but there seems to be a hollowness there. stick with the i hollowness there. stick with the plan, _ hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick — hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick with _ hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick with the _ hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick with the plan. - hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick with the plan. but i hollowness there. stick with the plan, stick with the plan. but to| plan, stick with the plan. but to be in denial— plan, stick with the plan. but to be in denial about— plan, stick with the plan. but to be in denial about those _ plan, stick with the plan. but to be in denial about those aspects i plan, stick with the plan. but to be in denial about those aspects of. plan, stick with the plan. but to bei in denial about those aspects of the plan which — in denial about those aspects of the plan which really _ in denial about those aspects of the plan which really should _ in denial about those aspects of the plan which really should be - in denial about those aspects of the plan which really should be done i plan which really should be done away _ plan which really should be done away with — plan which really should be done away with the _ plan which really should be done awa with. ~ , , , plan which really should be done awa with. ~ , ,, , plan which really should be done away with-— away with. the key issue is that ieo i le away with. the key issue is that people really — away with. the key issue is that people really need _ away with. the key issue is that people really need to _ away with. the key issue is that people really need to tell- away with. the key issue is that people really need to tell the i people really need to tell the truth — people really need to tell the truth. and in a way some of the things— truth. and in a way some of the things that _ truth. and in a way some of the things that are right, like nobody thought— things that are right, like nobody thought covid would come along and it would _ thought covid would come along and it would take us off our feet, i certainly— it would take us off our feet, i certainly didn't predict the ukraine war, certainly didn't predict the ukraine war. but— certainly didn't predict the ukraine war, but some of the things, though, are made _ war, but some of the things, though, are made and we have to respond to them _ are made and we have to respond to them in _ are made and we have to respond to them in a _ are made and we have to respond to them in a way, government has to be responsible — them in a way, government has to be responsible. and it's notjust about hope. _ responsible. and it's notjust about hope. it's— responsible. and it's notjust about hope, it's knowing how your government works, knowing what you can be _ government works, knowing what you can be in _ government works, knowing what you can be in control of. i think the kneeierk— can be in control of. i think the kneejerk empty promises where you 'ust kneejerk empty promises where you just hang _ kneejerk empty promises where you just hang onto a sound bite will honestly — just hang onto a sound bite will honestly get them all in difficulty if that's— honestly get them all in difficulty if that's the way they are going to do it _ if that's the way they are going to do it there — if that's the way they are going to do it. there is no point telling me that yes, — do it. there is no point telling me that yes, inflation may be going down, _

that yes, inflation may be going down, but — that yes, inflation may be going down, but if wages are not keeping up down, but if wages are not keeping up with— down, but if wages are not keeping up with that, and i have less money in my— up with that, and i have less money in my pocket — up with that, and i have less money in my pocket and food costs much morei _ in my pocket and food costs much more. we — in my pocket and food costs much more, we have over 11 million people who can't— more, we have over 11 million people who can't afford their meals, are using _ who can't afford their meals, are using food — who can't afford their meals, are using food banks and can't keep the show— using food banks and can't keep the show on _ using food banks and can't keep the show on the road. that is a huge proportion— show on the road. that is a huge proportion of our entire population. fraser— proportion of our entire population. fraser you — proportion of our entire population. fraser you accept there are people, loyalists to rishi sunak who say he inherited chaos after liz truss and very difficult problems after covid and what happened in ukraine pushing energy prices up, and he has at least brought back some order and calm to the conservative party and is taking the kind of action on immigration many of them wanted to see. do you think he gets credit for that at all from conservative voters? , ., , ., ., voters? the small boats are going down b a voters? the small boats are going down by a third — voters? the small boats are going down by a third and _ voters? the small boats are going down by a third and that's - voters? the small boats are going down by a third and that's a i voters? the small boats are going down by a third and that's a big i down by a third and that's a big achievement and we will see that throughout more of the year. he is also riiht throughout more of the year. he is also right about _ throughout more of the year. he is also right about nhs _ throughout more of the year. he: 3 also right about nhs waiting lists. he said some thing to you quite important there. he said if the strikes stopped then the waiting

lists will start to come down. i think he is right on that as well. the problems he has promised even more, he didn't promise to reduce small boats, he promised to stop them. against a very high bar he set himself this time last year when he laid out his five pledges, his progress doesn't seem that impressive. progress doesn't seem that impressive-— progress doesn't seem that im i ressive. ~ , , ., impressive. where the five pledges a mistake? he — impressive. where the five pledges a mistake? he was _ impressive. where the five pledges a mistake? he was wrong _ impressive. where the five pledges a mistake? he was wrong to _ impressive. where the five pledges a mistake? he was wrong to pledge i impressive. where the five pledges a i mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could. mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could- he — mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could. he said _ mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could. he said there _ mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could. he said there that _ mistake? he was wrong to pledge what he could. he said there that he - he could. he said there that he always thought nhs waiting lists would come down in march 2024. if he always thought that, then why last year did he promise to bring them down last year? i think he over promised, which has served to make the progress he has made look less impressive. the progress he has made look less imiressive. the progress he has made look less impressive-— impressive. look carefully at the small print- _ impressive. look carefully at the small print. isn't _ impressive. look carefully at the small print. isn't the _ impressive. look carefully at the small print. isn't the other i impressive. look carefully at the small print. isn't the other issue | small print. isn't the other issue that if you _ small print. isn't the other issue that if you pick _ small print. isn't the other issue that if you pick one _ small print. isn't the other issue that if you pick one thing - small print. isn't the other issue that if you pick one thing you - small print. isn't the other issue | that if you pick one thing you can distort _ that if you pick one thing you can distort the — that if you pick one thing you can distort the system. the fact that none _ distort the system. the fact that none of — distort the system. the fact that none of us — distort the system. the fact that none of us could get appointment with our— none of us could get appointment with our gp, all sorts of things are wrong _ with our gp, all sorts of things are wrong with— with our gp, all sorts of things are wrong with the nhs, people are demoralised beyond in the nhs that work there. ambulances are queueing

and queueing to get into a&e departments, predating any strikes. picking _ departments, predating any strikes. picking one thing doesn't sound anything — picking one thing doesn't sound anything to a person affected. waiting — anything to a person affected. waiting list targets are a problem for any government, it is like whack—a—mole. you have a list, luis's little list, excellent. i will be back with you three by the end of the show. this story sounds hard to believe. but the drama mr bates vs the post office has really focused minds on what happened to thousands of people who ran post offices, and were wrongly accused of stealing money because the computer system went wrong. some of them went to jail. many lost theirjobs. some lost everything. we heard the prime minister saying the government would do what it can to help a few minutes ago. there is an official inquiry but many, like lee castleton, who we'll be talking to in a second, say they have

had their lives ruined. lee was pursued through the courts, and had to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in costs, and went bankrupt. here's how he's portrayed in the series. i've got to show them it's notjust me. lisa, the post office are suing us for £26,000 which we didn't steal and we haven't got hanging around in piggy banks. we can speak to lee castleton who joins us from yorkshire. thank you for being on the programme. i think you were listening to rishi sunak when we asked him about what had gone wrong with the post office. what did you make of the promises he made to try to help sort things out? good morning. it is such a complicated thing and so combative. dvt and the post office themselves are administering the compensation schemes, of which there are three. obviously i am involved in one of those compensation schemes. the

victims are traumatised. it has been a long time, over 25 years. £135 million has been paid to some of the victims, but we had £150 million plus paid to lawyers. these lawyers are putting lots of pressure, it is difficult, the scheme is difficult. we are just normal people, we have legal people with us, but it is so difficult, it's like a war. why is that? why would anybody put post office and dbt in charge of recompense of the victims? would you like to see someone _ recompense of the victims? would you like to see someone else _ recompense of the victims? would you like to see someone else take - recompense of the victims? would you like to see someone else take charge l like to see someone else take charge of giving the pot and distributing it to people like you who have lost so much. i know you had some compensation but not enough to cover the terrible costs you had to pay out.

i would love it to be taken out of the hands by the people that caused it in a way, and it is notjust a computer issue, it is a people issue. people take people to call, made decisions based on faulty data they probably knew was faulty —— people took people to court. so many problems, to have a completely isolated, separate review and compensation scheme, itjust makes more sense. d0 compensation scheme, it 'ust makes more sense. do you feel now this drama has _ more sense. do you feel now this drama has thrown _ more sense. do you feel now this drama has thrown such _ more sense. do you feel now this drama has thrown such a - more sense. do you feel now this drama has thrown such a light - more sense. do you feel now this drama has thrown such a light on| more sense. do you feel now this i drama has thrown such a light on it that you have confidence now that it might finally get resolved? it is so interesting to hear you talk about it as if it has been a war, so obvious how difficult the situation has been, do you have confidence now finally people are paying attention? well, i hope pressure comes to bad,

thatis well, i hope pressure comes to bad, that is what we have tried to do for years, very difficult to be able to push our cause. this years, very difficult to be able to push our cause.— push our cause. as alan bates ri . htl push our cause. as alan bates rightly says — push our cause. as alan bates rightly says in _ push our cause. as alan bates rightly says in the _ push our cause. as alan bates rightly says in the drama, - push our cause. as alan bates rightly says in the drama, just| rightly says in the drama, just little people, people from your village shop, your local post office, and it has been really hard to drum up support, very difficult to drum up support, very difficult to get people to believe. share to drum up support, very difficult to get people to believe.- to get people to believe. are you an: ? to get people to believe. are you angry? very. _ to get people to believe. are you angry? very. really. _ to get people to believe. are you| angry? very, really, really angry. and what do _ angry? very, really, really angry. and what do you _ angry? very, really, really angry. and what do you hope _ angry? very, really, really angry. and what do you hope people - angry? very, really, really angry. - and what do you hope people watching this morning will take from hearing you speak about it? i this morning will take from hearing you speak about it?— you speak about it? i would like --eole to you speak about it? i would like people to contact _ you speak about it? i would like people to contact their - you speak about it? i would like people to contact their mp, - you speak about it? i would like people to contact their mp, put | people to contact their mp, put people to contact their mp, put people on pressure —— put pressure on people to help us. we have needed help. we have had fantastic people help. we have had fantastic people help us through this along the way and people continue to help us, but if there is one thing i have learnt,

support makes this work. it is very lonely being the only one as the post office would constantly tell each of the victims. now we are together in the us and we need to keep walking forward, no matter what the punches are, no matter how hard it gets, we need to keep pushing. lee castleton, thank you so much for joining us, we appreciate your time. sorry to hear how stressful it has been for you. thank you for telling us your story. this week labour leader keir starmer set out his new year pitch to voters. the speech featured the word "hope" 18 times, and "change" 22 times. easy to say, harder to prove what that means. bridget phillipson, who wants to be the education secretary, is back in the studio with us this morning. let us talk about what it might mean if you end up in charge of schools. you have told the sunday times after a big rise in absenteeism

irresponsible parents are harming other kids, how many parents do you think are responsible? the other kids, how many parents do you think are responsible?— think are responsible? the challenge we have seen — think are responsible? the challenge we have seen around _ think are responsible? the challenge we have seen around persistent - we have seen around persistent absenteeism means one in five children are regularly out of school, the figure is set to rise to one in four, staggering number. damage in their life chances and damaging the life chances of all of the children within the school community. i am saying to parents, i know it can be tough, really important children are in school every day matters. but a labour government will be on your site putting in place support you need to make it easier to get children to school. improved mental health support for example. a really big pressure at them and making it hard for some children to be in school. we will guarantee mental health counsellors in every secondary school, alongside breakfast clubs in primary schools to make it easier. a lot that government can do. it is about the partnership, research and rebuilding of relationship between

government and schools but also between schools and families. you have been more _ between schools and families. you have been more stern than that, you have been more stern than that, you have said in the sunday times, increasingly parents have quite a relaxed attitude to attendance at school, irresponsible parents who do not care about sending kids to school are harming other kids life chances, notjust their own. how many parents do you think are being irresponsible?— irresponsible? parents that choose to take their— irresponsible? parents that choose to take their children _ irresponsible? parents that choose to take their children out _ irresponsible? parents that choose to take their children out for - to take their children out for holidays, not necessary, they should reflect seriously because it damages children's life chances, they only get one chance at school, one childhood. for children facing additional challenges, an incoming labour government will make sure we put in place support needed to tackle that. but i believe very strongly that, yes, it is tough, but the thing we have to do as parents in the best interests of our children is making sure they are in school, so this week i will set out labour's long term plan to deliver that and how we make sure how and

rising standards are a feature of the school system. unless we have children in school, we cannot deliver that.— children in school, we cannot deliver that. the big speech on tuesda . deliver that. the big speech on tuesday. interesting _ deliver that. the big speech on tuesday. interesting you - deliver that. the big speech on tuesday. interesting you are i deliver that. the big speech on - tuesday. interesting you are using this language saying some parents are irresponsible and we asked in september and you said, it is not helpful to talk in that language, lecturing people, not effective to do that without supporting them. what has changed your mind? you are saying there were lots of people who are irresponsible. that saying there were lots of people who are irresponsible.— are irresponsible. that was in the context of discussion _ are irresponsible. that was in the context of discussion around - context of discussion around penalties. i do not think that is the answer. i do not think ratcheting up penalties is the way to do it. if i was education secretary right now, the clear message i would centre parents is every day in school matters. i want to make sure we give all of our children the best possible start in life. they cannot receive a brilliant education, we cannot deliver high and rising standards in schools if children are not there. persistent absenteeism is currently the biggest barrier we are facing as

a country to deliver that. what a country to deliver that. what would you _ a country to deliver that. what would you do _ a country to deliver that. what would you do about _ a country to deliver that. what would you do about it? - a country to deliver that. what would you do about it? more l a country to deliver that. what would you do about it? more mental health support in school, you have mentioned breakfast clubs, what would you actually do and what are you committed to paying for, if you think it is extra support that would get kids in school and get them staying in school? in get kids in school and get them staying in school?— get kids in school and get them staying in school? in the speech i ave i staying in school? in the speech i gave i will— staying in school? in the speech i gave i will set _ staying in school? in the speech i gave i will set out _ gave i will set out labour's long—term plan to reset and rebuild the relationship with education, between government and schools and schools and families, that will include mental health counsellors in every secondary school, community mental health hubs so people can access support they need as quickly as possible. there are huge waiting lists, often up to two years for young people to be seen. have you not young people to be seen. have you got money — young people to be seen. have you got money from — young people to be seen. have you got money from rachel— young people to be seen. have you got money from rachel reeves? i got money from rachel reeves? absolutely, politics is about the choices you make and i believe our children deserve better mental health support more than private schools deserve tax breaks. we would end the tax breaks and put the money directly into making sure all children and young people get their well—being and mental health support

they desperately need at the moment. keir starmer initially when he stood for leadership said he would scrap university tuition fees, then he said he wouldn't, you know... we don't know what your plans would be. will the fees go down? the don't know what your plans would be. will the fees go down?— will the fees go down? the economy is in a total— will the fees go down? the economy is in a total mess, _ will the fees go down? the economy is in a total mess, that _ will the fees go down? the economy is in a total mess, that has _ will the fees go down? the economy is in a total mess, that has to - will the fees go down? the economy is in a total mess, that has to be - is in a total mess, that has to be the starting point, an incoming labour government would inherit a very big list of problems to fix. the university funding system overall is one of those really big challenges. i am overall is one of those really big challenges. lam increasingly concerned when i speak with students about the impact the system that changed in september is becoming more aggressive, putting more pressure, it will put more pressure on low and middle earners in particular. i am determined a labour government will deliver a more progressive system, we need to look carefully at what that will involve, but my worry when i hear from students at universities they are working more hours in retailjobs, the impact it is having on studies

and access to other opportunities, like internships, research trips, it absolutely has to change. he already said in june repayments _ absolutely has to change. he already said in june repayments would - absolutely has to change. he already said in june repayments would go - said injune repayments would go down, graduates would pay less, is that still your commitment? will graduates pay less back for the university tuition fees and can you tell us by how much? an election this year. we tell us by how much? an election this ear. ~ ._ tell us by how much? an election this ear. ~ ., ., ., this year. we will say more around the time of — this year. we will say more around the time of the _ this year. we will say more around the time of the election. _ this year. we will say more around the time of the election. what - this year. we will say more around the time of the election. what i i this year. we will say more around | the time of the election. what i can commit to it as a more progressive system overall which can be delivered within the existing spending envelope. lots of modelling has been done providing different elements that can be delivered that means we can deliver a more progressive system but does not involve more taxation, borrowing. does that mean payments go down? yes, absolutely, that is possible. that is what i am determined to deliver and alongside that a more progressive system overall meaning low and middle earners are not hampered in the way they are now. i

would add, i think the opportunity for young people to go to university is an incredibly important opportunity and the dismissive and unpleasant nature of where the conservative party have taken this discussion is so often about... i have been asking about your plan, for parents, families, anyone thinking about university listening this morning, you have committed to saying repayments of fees will go down if labour wins the next election. ., . down if labour wins the next election-— down if labour wins the next election. ., ., ., , election. low and middle earners will -a election. low and middle earners will pay less. _ election. low and middle earners will pay less, but _ election. low and middle earners will pay less, but i _ election. low and middle earners will pay less, but i want - election. low and middle earners will pay less, but i want to - election. low and middle earners will pay less, but i want to make| will pay less, but i want to make clear university should be for all children who want the opportunity, i will not be putting up fresh barriers to opportunity like rishi sunak and the conservatives. mat sunak and the conservatives. not here now to _ sunak and the conservatives. not here now to answer that. richard philipson, thank you for coming in. —— bridget phillipson. it's zipped to ten o'clock. at the start of the show, the start of this election year, we began by asking how rishi sunak might defy political gravity, turn things round and win a fifth term for the tories. he said, his message, stick to the

plan. of course i know there's more to do, but progress is being made. the country is now pointing in the right direction and if we stick to the plan, we can continue to deliver that long—term change the country needs and that's ultimately how we will provide everybody with the peace of mind that the future is going to be better for their children. long—term change can stick to the plan, you heard it here first, let us talk briefly about keir starmer who will be here next week. how would you assess labour's position at the beginning of the year? regarding the next election as an exorcism of the tory party, they are not really saying much, but if labour is going to offer a significant difference, keir starmer is saying, trust me, i will bring stability, you hear that a lot, tory mayhem, stability under labour, perfectly plausible proposition, but if he is going to offer stability, why has his long—term economic plan fallen apart? 28 billion every

single year, the mainstay, just a couple of years ago, you can trust us, we will do this, take the promise to the bank. now it has collapsed, saying he will do it when fiscal rules allow, never. might there be just as fiscal rules allow, never. might there bejust as much chop fiscal rules allow, never. might there be just as much chop and change under labour?- there be just as much chop and change under labour? louise, what do ou think change under labour? louise, what do you think keir — change under labour? louise, what do you think keir starmer _ change under labour? louise, what do you think keir starmer needs - change under labour? louise, what do you think keir starmer needs to - change under labour? louise, what do you think keir starmer needs to do, i you think keir starmer needs to do, is he in the clear, if you believe the polls? i is he in the clear, if you believe the polls?— the polls? i would not be complacent. _ the polls? i would not be complacent. i— the polls? i would not be complacent. i am - the polls? i would not be complacent. i am not- the polls? i would not be - complacent. i am not someone the polls? i would not be _ complacent. i am not someone that follows— complacent. i am not someone that follows the — complacent. i am not someone that follows the polls obsessively, but i would _ follows the polls obsessively, but i would not — follows the polls obsessively, but i would not be complacent at all. my advice _ would not be complacent at all. my advice to _ would not be complacent at all. my advice to keir starmer is pretty similar— advice to keir starmer is pretty similar to — advice to keir starmer is pretty similar to rishi sunak, which is, tell the — similar to rishi sunak, which is, tell the truth, get your facts completely straight, don't sell people — completely straight, don't sell people a pub. do completely straight, don't sell people a pub-— completely straight, don't sell people a pub. completely straight, don't sell --eolea ub. ,, ,~ people a pub. do you think they are at the moment? _ people a pub. do you think they are at the moment? i— people a pub. do you think they are at the moment? i think _ people a pub. do you think they are at the moment? i think they - people a pub. do you think they are at the moment? i think they need l people a pub. do you think they are| at the moment? i think they need to be ti . hter. at the moment? i think they need to be tighter- l — at the moment? i think they need to be tighter. i just _ at the moment? i think they need to be tighter. i just listened _ at the moment? i think they need to be tighter. i just listened to - be tighter. ijust listened to bridget— be tighter. ijust listened to bridget phillipson saying one in four people think it is ok not to send _ four people think it is ok not to send the — four people think it is ok not to send the kids to schools, that penalties _ send the kids to schools, that penalties do not matter, they do matter~ —

penalties do not matter, they do matter. you have to face consequences if you break rules. really— consequences if you break rules. really basic human and british instinct — really basic human and british instinct. if we have a will, break it, something has to happen. so much of westminster is completely out of kilter _ of westminster is completely out of kilter with _ of westminster is completely out of kilter with the general public —— if you have — kilter with the general public —— if you have a — kilter with the general public —— if you have a rule. keir starmer is ahead, — you have a rule. keir starmer is ahead, a — you have a rule. keir starmer is ahead, a man of integrity, honesty, and he _ ahead, a man of integrity, honesty, and he knows he has to get right. john. _ and he knows he has to get right. john, a _ and he knows he has to get right. john, a big — and he knows he has to get right. john, a big other election this year, somewhere else across the pond, very tight on time, with you close the show for us as donald trump and joe biden?— trump and joe biden? they will scult trump and joe biden? they will sculpt me _ trump and joe biden? they will sculpt me on — trump and joe biden? they will sculpt me on mount _ trump and joe biden? they willj sculpt me on mount rushmore, trump and joe biden? they will - sculpt me on mount rushmore, take down some of the others, and asjoe would say, it is the year 2025, bring it on, bring it on.- would say, it is the year 2025, bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing _ bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing that, _ bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing that, as _ bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing that, as you - bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing that, as you did - bring it on, bring it on. could not resist doing that, as you did uk | resist doing that, as you did uk politicians when you are last time on the programme. it will be a busy yearin on the programme. it will be a busy year in the united states and busy for us here also.

great to be back with the first big interview with rishi sunak of the year. you can watch again on iplayer. we'll be chewing it over on this weekend's newscast, which you can find on bbc sounds later. and next sunday, as rishi sunak kept pointing out, keir starmer will be here as the long campaign of 2024 grinds into gear. he's desperate for a change of government. rishi sunak�*s desperate to hang on. the decision will be up to you. see you next week, same time, same place.

live from london. this is bbc news. the us secretary of state meets middle eastern leaders — jordan's king abdullah warns him of the "catastrophic repercussions" of israel's campaign in gaza.

rishi sunak insists he has faith in his government's rwanda plan, despite leaked papers suggesting he had doubts. this hasn't been tried before in our country. i mean, it's fair to say it is novel. i've been very clear that this is a novel scheme. of course it's novel. but actually we should have more confidence today that it will work precisely because we've got a returns agreement with albania that is working incredibly well. polls close in bangladesh's election — early indications suggest a low turnout of voters, and the current prime minister is expected to win a fourth consecutive term. the us transport safety board says no passengers were seated next to where part of a plane fell off mid—flight. hello, i'm luxmy gopal. jordan's king abdullah has warned the us secretary

of state antony blinken of 'catastrophic repercussions'