voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i am stephen sackur. one of the key drivers throughout history has been knowledge of our own mortality. from childhood each of us knows we will die. religion, philosophy and science wrestle with that fact and have in different ways and braced the quest for immortality. my guess today, stephen cave director of university of cambridge institute for technology and humanity is at the centre of a growing debate about the merits of extending human longevity.

is it wise to seek to live forever? stephen cave, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. it is a great pleasure. you believe our human awareness of our own mortality is absolutely central to the human story. why? well, all creatures strive to live on, to keep going. they would not be around as if they did not. the mountain did not care about surviving would not pass on genes. we come for from a long line of creatures that determined to keep going but we

have these big brands that is part of our survival mechanism allow us to see the future, to generalise and we are conscious of ourselves as individuals and that means we are conscious of our own death and out of all the billions of creatures on earth, very few creatures have to live with that terrible awareness that all of their efforts will come to nothing safe we look back to human history, we see humanity struggling to make sense of this. some of the earliest archaeological evidence we find of human development is suggesting people believed in an afterlife. the older smoke of human literature is about the quest for immortality and wrestling with immortality and mortality, the epic of gilgamesh and we have a way of protecting ourselves into the future and we try hard to stay alive in this world.— alive in this world. what you are saying — alive in this world. what you

are saying is _ alive in this world. what you are saying is we're - alive in this world. what you are saying is we're trying - alive in this world. what you are saying is we're trying to | are saying is we're trying to make of our own mortality but we are also wrestling against it, trying somehow or other to find the recipe to avoid it, to avert this ultimate finish? yes, there are lots of ways in which we can come to terms with mortality. we can tell ourselves that this life is just the beginning, that the real life is in another realm somewhere else, but the basic plan is to stay alive today for as long as we can.— plan is to stay alive today for as long as we can. religion is of course _ as long as we can. religion is of course have _ as long as we can. religion is of course have their - as long as we can. religion is of course have their own - as long as we can. religion is. of course have their own belief systems and whether it be western or eastern religions, they have different forms of an afterlife. at the beginning of this conversation, let's be clear about yourself. you have no belief whatsoever in an afterlife?— no belief whatsoever in an afterlife? ., �* , afterlife? that's true. i grew u . afterlife? that's true. i grew u- in a afterlife? that's true. i grew up in a christian _ afterlife? that's true. i grew up in a christian culture - afterlife? that's true. i grewj up in a christian culture here in england. but i was sceptical of the stories i was being told, when my grandparents died, when i was quite young

and i was not convinced the people telling the really believed in them. we live in something of a time of crisis for these kinds of belief systems, at least in west. you talk about _ systems, at least in west. you talk about the _ systems, at least in west. you talk about the death _ systems, at least in west. you talk about the death of - systems, at least in west. you talk about the death of your father and that giving you a whole new awareness of the self being something which has a physicalform in terms being something which has a physical form in terms of the brain and that when the brain dies, that self is terminated. why was the death of a loved one is so central to that deeper understanding you gained? fix, deeper understanding you aained? �* ., deeper understanding you aained? ., ., , ., gained? a lot of people have this experience _ gained? a lot of people have this experience that - gained? a lot of people have this experience that when i gained? a lot of people have l this experience that when they are children that do not think much about death, when they experience it, could be the death of a pet or the death of a grandparent or some other lovren and they think, where have they gone? and then they realise, hang on, if it can happen to them, it can happen to me at that moment is a terrifying one but with my father it was a little bit

different because i was trained as a philosopher in western tradition which was very dualist, separation of mind and body and we use of the idea in christianity and other religion that the mind and spirit and soul will go off to another realm but when you see someone suffering brain cancer as was the case with my father, hope you realise the true self is very much bound up with this physical body and in particular the brain. �* ., physical body and in particular the brain-— the brain. before we go into the brain. before we go into the detail— the brain. before we go into the detail of _ the brain. before we go into the detail of your _ the brain. before we go into the detail of your analysis i the brain. before we go into j the detail of your analysis of different ways in which human beings are pursuing longevity. i want to address what i see is a basic contradiction in your work. you seem to be saying that we humans are immature in the sense we fear death and thatis the sense we fear death and that is why we are so attracted to belief systems which tell us we do not necessarily die, on the other hand, you say it is extraordinarily positive and useful that we have developed all these different ways of

coping with death and the fear of death because it has motivated so much creativity and positive human development. are you essentially something is a negative or positive story? i is a negative or positive sto ? ., ., _ is a negative or positive sto ? ., ., ., story? i would not say we are immature _ story? i would not say we are immature and _ story? i would not say we are immature and being - story? i would not say we are immature and being unable l story? i would not say we are | immature and being unable to face death and having to tell ourselves these stories. this is a human — ourselves these stories. this is a human constant... - ourselves these stories. this is a human constant... i - ourselves these stories. this is a human constant... i am | is a human constant... i am quoting from you, "as a species we need to outgrow our fear of death." i we need to outgrow our fear of death." ., ~ we need to outgrow our fear of death." . ~ ., , ., death." i talk about the wisdom narrative that _ death." i talk about the wisdom narrative that can _ death." i talk about the wisdom narrative that can be _ death." i talk about the wisdom narrative that can be found - death." i talk about the wisdom narrative that can be found in i narrative that can be found in many cultures, looking back through our recorded history both in religions like christianity, particularly in the old testament, in buddhism and other belief systems like ancient greece philosophy which i tried to come to terms with death and facing mortality and think about the benefits that can come from that, for example appreciating the time we have here on earth. in

appreciating the time we have here on earth.— here on earth. in the past on this programme _ here on earth. in the past on this programme i _ here on earth. in the past on this programme i have - here on earth. in the past on| this programme i have talked here on earth. in the past on i this programme i have talked to santas who have devoted a great deal of time, money and effort who have looked to block and even reverse the ageing process in human beings. —— scientists. doctor gray is one proponent of this effort and he reckoned that within our lifetime, we may see human beings living for hundreds, if not a thousand years. is it that not something to embrace, indeed to encourage scientists to work upon?- scientists to work upon? there are many _ scientists to work upon? there are many age _ scientists to work upon? there are many age related - scientists to work upon? there are many age related diseases| are many age related diseases which are extremely debilitating and many lives are too short and there would be many people right now would would benefit from the kind of being worked on if we are going to radically extend life, which is something humans have always strived for, we need to

prepared and we are not right now. �* prepared and we are not right now. ~ , ., prepared and we are not right now. �* now. are you saying if we prepare _ now. are you saying if we prepare ourselves - now. are you saying if we prepare ourselves and - now. are you saying if we i prepare ourselves and your think tank research institute is one that talks about this a great deal, if we think about it deep enough, it would be a good thing? i it deep enough, it would be a good thing?— good thing? i think it could be. because _ good thing? i think it could be. because i'm _ good thing? i think it could be. because i'm sceptical. good thing? i think it could - be. because i'm sceptical about the possibility of immortality, sceptical about the desirability of immortality, people tend to frame my way as thanks 70 or 80 years is enough. i would thanks 70 or 80 years is enough. iwould hope thanks 70 or 80 years is enough. i would hope that when i am 80 i would want to continue to live on and i would hope that for everyone. but the kind of research that would help people live a few decades longer is very welcome. you are at the intersection _ longer is very welcome. you are at the intersection of _ at the intersection of philosophy, technology and science. when you look at the scientific breakthroughs and technological developments, do you believe that real significant progress is being made in life extension? yes, there is progress. _

made in life extension? yes, there is progress. there - made in life extension? yes, there is progress. there are | there is progress. there are reasons to be sceptical and optimism and we have to balance the two. this is something humans are notjust been pursuing for thousands of years but genuinely believed they were on the verge of for thousands of years. the ancient egyptian thought they were on the verge of creating an elixir, the ancient chinese thought that, but there has been progress in the last decade and extending the lives of other organisms like fruit flies and worms and even mammals like mice... ii i flies and worms and even mammals like mice... ifi may introduce _ mammals like mice... ifi may introduce the _ mammals like mice... ifi may introduce the jellyfish. - mammals like mice... ifi may introduce the jellyfish. we - mammals like mice... ifi may| introduce the jellyfish. we now introduce thejellyfish. we now know there is one species, some quality modeljellyfish, which has the ability to transfer differentiation to regrow. we seem now to be able to learn a great deal in terms of genetic engineering from other living organisms. if we can tap the codes to allow that to happen,

surely immortality is no longer some sort of myth or dream? i think the real progress is possible. never before in human history have we put so much talent and so much money into this area of research and they have been some real breakthroughs. so i have moved from a position of scepticism to one of thinking that this is a possible and, if it is possible, then we need to prepare because we are not ready now. prepare because we are not ready nova— prepare because we are not ready now. does it worry you and ou ready now. does it worry you and you have _ ready now. does it worry you and you have already - ready now. does it worry you and you have already talked l and you have already talked about the money, that some of the most enthusiastic proponents of developing this research are the riches and arguably the most powerful private sector business people in the world, jeff bezos, elon musk, peterteal, they in the world, jeff bezos, elon musk, peter teal, they all seem somewhat obsessed with this area of scientific research, extending human life. they have the money to do it but it raises questions about whether the work they do will be open to others or will be reserved for themselves. it

to others or will be reserved for themselves.— to others or will be reserved for themselves. it is such an important — for themselves. it is such an important question. - for themselves. it is such an important question. if- for themselves. it is such an important question. if they i for themselves. it is such an i important question. if they are donating large sums of money that donate forward basic research for the benefit of all, that should certainly be welcomed but one of the real concerns about life extension that it will be the privilege of a rich elite and that would have disastrous consequences. aha, have disastrous consequences. a philosopher i believe you know, john davis, he wrote a book in which he said imagine a world in which the wealthy few live on in endless youth, and elite of the immortals. they would behave like branches watching a herd of cattle, the likes of you and me, whose members change with the years while they remain in control. that is dystopian _ they remain in control. that is dystopian and _ they remain in control. that is dystopian and truly _ they remain in control. that is dystopian and truly scary. - they remain in control. that is dystopian and truly scary. it i dystopian and truly scary. it is terrifying and time is the most precious thing we have. discrepancies in life expectancy now, here in england for example might be ten years

between the rich and poor or different areas of the country and whenever that is repotted it is reported with a sense of outrage, rightly. —— reported. imagine if those differences were centuries or thousands of years, i would were centuries or thousands of years, iwould hope were centuries or thousands of years, i would hope we would find that unacceptable. in your latest book — find that unacceptable. in your latest book you _ find that unacceptable. in your latest book you debate - find that unacceptable. in your latest book you debate with i find that unacceptable. in your latest book you debate with al latest book you debate with a us philosopherjohn martin fisher who is enthusiastic about this research and what it could achieve. you are much more sceptical. basically, his message to you is, you are a commander in, just like thomas malthus in the 18th century who could not see the effect technology would have on food technology, you cannot see the way in which the human spirit of innovation and development will allow us to live longer and benefit from that rather than suffer from it.- and benefit from that rather than suffer from it. john is an

excellent _ than suffer from it. john is an excellent philosopher - than suffer from it. john is an excellent philosopher based i than suffer from it. john is an | excellent philosopher based in sunny california and he likes to contrast his optimism with my english melancholy but i think we need to be cautious and we need to look at the possible downside. broadly speaking, iam incredibly excited by new technology, life extension and lots of others but my mission and that of the new in situ we found it is to make these go well and we only do that by thinking about how these technologies including life extension can go wrong and what we need to do to make them go well. what we need to do to make them to well. ., ._ what we need to do to make them to well. ., ,. what we need to do to make them to well. ., i. ., go well. you say you are broadly _ go well. you say you are broadly excited, - go well. you say you are broadly excited, you - go well. you say you are broadly excited, you do| go well. you say you are i broadly excited, you do not come across is that, come across as deeply concerned. you talk about resource base, the number of people you can manage to keep alive on this planet, the carrying capacity being overburdened and you say that

longevity of 120— 160 years would make life pretty much impossible. i would make life pretty much impossible-— impossible. i am very much concerned. _ impossible. i am very much concerned. i— impossible. i am very much concerned. i think - impossible. i am very much concerned. i think everyone ought to be concerned about the drain on the planet's resources we are exerting with eight billion people and we need to be tackling that. my worries, it was that it would be fantastic if we have a breakthrough in life extension. i sure there would be problems and we will solve them. fine, show me how you can solve the problem of biodiversity loss and ecosystem collapse and global warming now and then i will believe you if you tell me you can do it if everyone is living to 120.— you can do it if everyone is living to 120. you seem to be suggesting — living to 120. you seem to be suggesting that _ living to 120. you seem to be suggesting that actually - living to 120. you seem to be suggesting that actually if. living to 120. you seem to be suggesting that actually if we could live much longer and forever, immortality, it would be extremely bad for us, bad for us because it would drain us of motivation, we would all

be bored and we would be unhappy human beings. do you really believe that? the philosophical— really believe that? the philosophical debate . really believe that? tue: philosophical debate about immortality has been focused on genuinely unending life, and i think given the prospect of eternity, we would either have to become something very different with a very finite creatures we are now with a limited set of interests or we would become terribly bored and fall into... but that doesn't mean it applies to the real prospects of life extension, a few decades. but it is worth bearing in mind that hundreds of millions of people right now are already depressed. this is worth taking seriously. there is an old joke about two ladies in a canteen and one says, the food here is terrible, and the other one says, the portions are so small. why would you want a larger portion of terrible food? i want a larger portion of terrible food?— want a larger portion of terrible food? ~' ., ~' terrible food? i like the 'oke and i get i terrible food? i like the 'oke and t get the i terrible food? i like the 'oke and i get the message h terrible food? i like the joke and i get the message but i terrible food? i like the joke - and i get the message but there are equally many millions of people living around the world were deeply depressed by the notion that actually before

very long they are going to die and give them an overwhelming sense of the pointlessness of everything. sense of the pointlessness of everything-— everything. life can be full of d . everything. life can be full of dry. and _ everything. life can be full of dry. and l _ everything. life can be full of dry, and i think— everything. life can be full of dry, and i think our— everything. life can be full of dry, and i think our priorities | dry, and i think our priorities should be to enable as many people as possible to live in full health for as long as possible, and so if the focus of this kind of research is on what you call compressing morbidity, making eight people who are ageing healthier and extending people's lives that way, i would extending people's lives that way, iwould be extending people's lives that way, i would be very supportive. at life extension for a view while others are living a life of depression and debilitation wouldn't be right. your debate opponent in this, john martin fisher, he asks you to indulge in a thought experiment. he says, you imagine that i have an alexia which can... when you reach the age of 80 can prolong your life by a weekend at the age of 80 your life is good, you are in good physical and mental health, would you drink that elixir to ensure that for the next week you go on living that good life? i next week you go on living that tood life? ., , ., next week you go on living that good life?_ you | good life? i hope i would. you ho te good life? i hope i would. you hope you _

good life? i hope i would. you hope you would. _ good life? i hope i would. you hope you would. you - good life? i hope i would. you hope you would. you would i good life? i hope i would. you i hope you would. you would drink it for one week, what would you do at the end of that week? would you drink it again? it is much harder— would you drink it again? it is much harder to _ would you drink it again? it is much harder to say. _ would you drink it again? it is much harder to say. why? - would you drink it again? it is i much harder to say. why? surely ou much harder to say. why? surely you would _ much harder to say. why? surely you would want _ much harder to say. why? surely you would want another- much harder to say. why? surely you would want another great i you would want another great weekend after that. his message beyond that experiment is a thought that when you drill down into it, if you have a good life, why not want to prolong it for as long as you possibly can? i prolong it for as long as you possibly can?— possibly can? i completely understand _ possibly can? i completely understand the _ possibly can? i completely understand the impulse, i possibly can? i completely i understand the impulse, but i am all for creating a world in which as many people as possible can have that kind of life that they embrace. that is why i am very supportive of much of the research that is going into selling —— cellular rejuvenation and the other things that would help us tackle the diseases of ageing. i hope these breakthroughs will come, but as a society we need to think carefully about what that means for ensuring people have good mental and physical health for as long as possible. what do you think of those people, some of them very, very rich, some scientists who are actually, while they wait for the magicalforever actually, while they wait for the magical forever live solution to be found, they want

their own bodies to be frozen cryogenically, for liquid nitrogen to perhaps give them, albeit a very small chance of being revived at some later point when we have found is miraculous answer to forever life? ~ , ., life? well, the belief that we can one day _ life? well, the belief that we can one day be _ life? well, the belief that we can one day be resurrected, | can one day be resurrected, whether by gods or by scientists, is a very ancient one, so i understand the impulse. i think the chance of success are very, very small. freezing someone is very bad for you, as a rule, because of murder, your cells turned to slush and so on. but if you say this to someone who signed up for this practice, they will say the chances might be small but they are better than coming back from cremation. so i understand why.— back from cremation. so i understand why. let's leave the freezer to _ understand why. let's leave the freezer to one _ understand why. let's leave the freezer to one side _ understand why. let's leave the freezer to one side and - understand why. let's leave the freezer to one side and think. freezer to one side and think about a different way in which we might in the future think of immortality. that is al, artificial intelligence giving us the capacity to download what is the essence of

ourselves, that is what happens in ourselves, download the memories, the thoughts, the emotions, the material that makes us us. onto a computer, to digitise it, to turn ourselves into digital cells which can be kept in a metal box forever. isn't that going to be a form of immortality? well, it is... certainly something that people believe is a form of immortality and is already on offer. there are already on offer. there are already promises like this, whether as a way of managing grief, so if it is a loved one that dies, or as a route to immortality when thinking about your own prospects. but i don't think this is a route to mortality... it think this is a route to mortality. . ._ mortality... it is not a means of maintaining _ mortality... it is not a means of maintaining memories, i mortality... it is not a means of maintaining memories, it| mortality... it is not a meansl of maintaining memories, it is not like keeping photos on your phone. this can be generative. this can be the essence of you, which generates new thoughts, new conversations, which keeps you in a sense alive stop your institute works on technology in the future and humanity

stoppers and not something that actually is a realistic possibility?- actually is a realistic possibility? yes, great question _ possibility? yes, great question and - possibility? yes, great question and we i possibility? yes, great question and we are i possibility? yes, great- question and we are deeply philosophical when thinking about, is that really you? i don't think it is, i think i am 's particular animal, this particular body, this organism and the organism is transferred when my psychological data is transferred onto a computer but philosophers differ and we do in fact have a research project thinking about what this will mean for how we grieve, how we think about our own mortality, for religion in, if this becomes a common practice, which it might.— becomes a common practice, which it might. let's talk more about artificial _ which it might. let's talk more about artificial intelligence. i about artificial intelligence. i have already referred to colleagues of yours who, with the greatest of respect, call you a curmudgeon on the issue of prolonging life. i also i think all you a curmudgeon when it comes to your attitude to articulate intelligence because there is only people out there working on this who are deeply excited and positive about the future. from google deep mind,

they say things are changing digital speed, we are in the relevance of scientific discovery, ai has the potential to help with humanity's greatest ellenger is, it will be transformative, it will be beneficial. you want the other hand seemed to spend your time talking about the need for global regulation. why are you being, again, imagine?- being, again, imagine? those two things— being, again, imagine? those two things have _ being, again, imagine? those two things have definitely i being, again, imagine? those two things have definitely not| two things have definitely not opposed in global regulation and innovation. on the contrary. in any regulation in order to make this technology go well. that is my mission with all of these technologies, to ask how do we make them go well? of course they have enormous potential to bring prosperity. that is a history of technology. but in the long run it tends to bring great prosperity and we enjoy the lives that we do at the moment, and only through technology can we... it and only through technology can we... , ,., and only through technology can we, , , , , ., ., and only through technology can we... , ., ., we... it is sort of easy to call for — we... it is sort of easy to call for regulation - we... it is sort of easy to call for regulation and i we... it is sort of easy to i call for regulation and demand that international committee acts together to achieve meaningful regulation, but isn't the truth of it is it is

never going to happen because the key drivers of ai development are vast corporations driven by greed, i suppose, on one level, and nationstates who are driven to a large part, by national security interests and great power rivalries. the idea that those different actors are all going to come together and be collaborative, it divides what we know about human history and human nature, doesn't it?- human nature, doesn't it? there is no denying _ human nature, doesn't it? there is no denying it _ human nature, doesn't it? there is no denying it is _ human nature, doesn't it? there is no denying it is incredibly i is no denying it is incredibly hard and at the moment researchers in my and across the world are looking at what kind of precedents are the best to follow for al, is it something like the way we manage nuclear weapons, is it something like the way we manage chemical weapons or is it more like climate change, for example?— it more like climate change, for exam-le? . ., ., for example? what do you think? i don't think— for example? what do you think? i don't think the _ for example? what do you think? i don't think the nuclear - i don't think the nuclear weapon analogy is a good one because we are talking about one specific technology that is very hard to build, whereas ai, it isn't one problem, it is something that will impact on every aspect of life and it is

something we will all have access to. we need to think of it as a very broad range of problems, ai and healthcare, weapon systems, misinformation, for example, and use different regulatory mechanisms, different ways of cooperating in order to manage those. this conversation _ in order to manage those. this conversation has _ in order to manage those. this conversation has been, again, a fascinating mix of philosophy, history, science and technology. what makes you think viewing humanity over a span of time, the human beings are going to find the ways to turn our ever deepening knowledge of ai and its capacities into something positive rather than something thatis positive rather than something that is so... though so the seeds of our own destruction? we might not. you are the curmudgeon now. iam we might not. you are the curmudgeon now. i am trying to be optimistic and suggest that some kind of collaboration is possible. there are real precedents for coming together to solve problems. often it takes too long as it is with climate change. but i think we should be optimistic that people have started thinking

about the impact of ai and how to contain a relatively early. with other technologies like printing law cars and so on, it took centuries or decades to come up with meaningful regulation. so i think we should be optimistic about the many initiatives that are already springing up. stephen cave, it already springing up. stephen cave. it has — already springing up. stephen cave, it has been _ already springing up. stephen cave, it has been fascinating. | cave, it has been fascinating. thank you for being on hard dog. thank you for being on hard dot. ., .. thank you for being on hard do _ ., ~' , ., , thank you for being on hard dot. ., ~' , ., , . thank you for being on hard dot. ., , . -- dog. thank you very much. -- thank you _ dog. thank you very much. -- thank you for— dog. thank you very much. -- thank you for being _ dog. thank you very much. -- thank you for being on - thank you for being on hardtalk. hello there. well, the falling rain has now eased and there is still plenty of ground water out there, the rivers will take some time to subside and the number of flood warnings has been

in steady decline, but there are still plenty of them out there. all of the details on those are on the bbc weather website. the weather has certainly changed. the week ahead is still looking mostly dry, a few showers. it will be feeling cold, frost, fog and ice all forming through the overnight period. it's all thanks to this area of high pressure that's been building in through the course of the weekend and set to stick around and it will block the atlantic systems moving in from the west. so we should stay mostly dry. this is how we are starting off monday morning with a widespread frost, some patches of fog out there too and they will be slow to lift and clear as we head through the morning. some icy stretches and showers streaming in from the north sea and a brisk northeasterly wind across the london area, and the south east of england, wintry over the high ground and we could possibly see a light dusting of snow for some places. but those showers forming in lines.

as the wind picks up, it becomes more easterly and will drive the showers further west into central southern england and perhaps even eastern wales, but for many away from the fog, there will be weak spells of winter sunshine and areas of clouds, thickest at the east, top temperatures between 2 and 5 celsius, so feeling cold, but feeling even colder still in exposure to the brisk northeasterly winds and that will always feel strongest towards the south. so here, it will feel subzero for most of the day. heading through tuesday, there is a little more of a breeze towards the south, the wind is picking up, there should be more sunshine and maybe some showers towards the southwest of england and through the channel islands, but otherwise, it is looking dry. again, there will be some weak winter sunshine on offer, temperatures once more between 2 and 5 celsius but plenty of added wind chill again. exposure to that easterly wind. more cloud on wednesday and moisture and slightly less cold—feeling air perhaps, most of the cloud will be towards the north of the uk, the best of the sunshine will be further south. and you will notice that temperatures start to improve

a little as we head through thursday and friday. but a lot more cloud around, more moisture in the air, still possibly some frosts by night. bye— bye.

live from london, this is bbc news. us secretary of state, antony blinken, travels to the united arab emirates and saudi arabia today, as he continues his middle east tour aimed at preventing the escalation

of israel—gaza war. uk government ministers meet today amid calls for one mp to face questions in parliament about the post office scandal, in which hundreds of sub—postmasters and mistresses were wrongfully convicted. police in australia dismantle a criminal gang attempting to smuggle hundreds of lizards to hong kong. the atomic bomb drama, oppenheimer, wins big at the golden globe awards in los angeles, taking home several of the night's big prizes. and, the first american spacecraft to attempt to land on the moon in more than half a century is poised to blast off in a few hours time. hello and welcome to the programme. i'm sally bundock. the us secretary of state, antony blinken, is travelling to the united arab emirates and saudi arabia today, as part of a middle east tour aimed at preventing the regional escalation of israel's war in gaza.