former post office boss paula vennells hands back her cbe and another previous head of the company, adam crozier, expresses his sympathy for the victims. the moment masked gunmen break into a live television studio in ecuador as a state of emergency is declared. young people are contributing to a rise in sexual offences. police say under 18s are potential offenders in more than half of child abuse cases. it's advantage middlesbrough in their league cup semifinal after a 1—0 win over a wasteful chelsea in their first leg at the riverside stadium. how the world war ii veteran who helped map the beaches for the normandy landings is hoping to mark the 80th anniversary of d—day.

and it is still chilly out there but today for some of you a little bit more clout and one or two rain showers. i will have the four for forecast and detail later on. it's wednesday the 10th of january. the prime minister will face questions in parliament today over the post office horizon it scandal which saw hundreds of innocent sub—postmasters wrongly sentenced for fraud and theft. the former post office boss paula vennells yesterday bowed to public pressure to give up her cbe but more questions remain over the number of government contracts that are still being awarded to fujitsu, which supplied the faulty it system, and the delays in quashing convictions and awarding compensation. our political correspondent peter saull has the latest. it was an announcement that added insult to their injury, depicted in the recent itv drama. paula vennells has got the cbe. joking! but now the former boss of the post office has agreed

to hand back her honour, adding that she was truly sorry for the devastation caused. downing street said it was the right decision. another seniorfigure, adam crozier, who ran royal mail between 2003 and 2010, has expressed his heartfelt sympathies to those wronged by what he called the tragic miscarriages ofjustice. meanwhile, ministers are working on a plan to speed up the process of exonerating the victims amid calls for legislation that would quash their convictions. we can do something good, mr speaker, together, if the justice secretary would bring a simple bill to quash all 800 immediately. the suggestions he made is receiving active consideration. i expect to be able to make further announcements shortly. the government is expected to set out exactly what it plans to do by the end of the week. there are concerns, though, about parliament interfering with court rulings. we have to do things, we have to get this sorted, but we also have to be very careful it's notjust reactive because kneejerk legislation, as we know from previous examples,

other examples doesn't always work. and there are questions about fujitsu, which made the faulty horizon accounting software. company bosses have been summoned to appear before a committee of mps next week. should it be blocked from getting new government contracts? action on that appears unlikely, though, before the public inquiry into the scandal, which started three years ago, concludes. it's due to resume hearing evidence tomorrow and will surely have a far bigger audience than before. peter saull, bbc news. let's speak now to our chief political correspondent henry zeffman. this is likely to dominate events in westminster today. henry is there live. we know that paula vennells is handing back her cbe but talking to victims here on the sofa this week they are adamant that this is not just about her, they say that accountability has to go much wider, much further than her. i

accountability has to go much wider, much further than her.— much further than her. i think that is riaht, much further than her. i think that is right. jon. _ much further than her. i think that is right. jon. and _ much further than her. i think that is right, jon, and i— much further than her. i think that is right, jon, and i think— much further than her. i think that is right, jon, and i think that's - is right, jon, and i think that's where the conversation in westminster is going as well. let's just take a step back and think about what has happened in just a few short days this week. this is a scandal that has been rippling along the surface for years, but in the last couple of days it has ripped through the corridors of power. yesterday paula vennells handed back, said she wanted to hand back her cbe. you now have some mps and campaigners this morning saying she should go further and hand back the millions of pounds of money she earned during her time as chief executive of the post office. if you broaden it out beyond her, i think the big conversation in government is how they can speed up the exoneration of hundreds of sub—postmaster is who they now believe were wrongfully convicted in one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in british history. i think we might hear more on that today, there is a possibly that rishi sunak will say something about that at prime minister's questions at

midday. the direction of travel from the government appears to be that they are considering, alex chalke's words, the justice they are considering, alex chalke's words, thejustice secretary, actively considering doing something unprecedented and extraordinary, to pass a law exonerating through an act of parliament all of the outstanding postmasters you have not had their convictions appealjudges the vast majority of those who have been convicted in the first place. it they are then moving forward on the accountability question, lots of questions for fujitsu who was the company behind the horizon programme, they still have loads of projects with the government to do other things, the government is fujitsu uk's biggest client. they have been summoned to the parliament next week. this is not a flash in the pan story that westminster gets

excited about for a couple of days and then sets aside, this will be talked about for ages to come because finally, people in westminster see this as one of the biggest miscarriages ofjustice that britain has seen. biggest miscarriages of 'ustice that britain has seemh britain has seen. thank you very much indeed, _ britain has seen. thank you very much indeed, we _ britain has seen. thank you very much indeed, we are _ britain has seen. thank you very much indeed, we are going - britain has seen. thank you very much indeed, we are going to i britain has seen. thank you very i much indeed, we are going to talk about it a lot here this morning. at eight o'clock, we'll be joined on the sofa by eight sub—postmasters and the son of one who had their personal and professional lives torn apart by this scandal. some of them are speaking for the first time. we'll be hearing their stories, and what they want to happen next. all that is to come at 8am. sarah can tell us what is happening, incredible pictures from south america overnight. thirteen people have been arrested after masked gunmen stormed a live television studio in ecuador. at least one employee had a gun held

to his head before the pictures cut out but police say all captives have now been freed. our south america correspondent ione wells reports. a moment of utter horror broadcast live on television. armed men with balaclavas over their face broke into the set of this public television channel in ecuador while it was live on air, brandishing guns and what appears to be explosives. it comes a day after the country's new president, daniel noboa, declared a state of emergency. ecuador has been rocked by a series of attacks after the apparent escape of a powerful gang leader, jose adolfo macias, from prison. the president ordered the military and police to intervene in controlling prisons in an attempt to tame the violence. but the violence has exploded further since then. explosions in the streets, police officers carrying out stop and search. some reportedly being abducted.

for ordinary people in ecuador, terror on the streets. translation: i hope that this state of emergency yields results, - positive results for the population, not for the criminals. translation: we live in constant| fear because on a day to day basis, when we go out to work, we don't know if we'll return or if we'll come back home in one piece. the suspects tonight have now been detained, but with ecuador still on high alert, fearfor citizens there remains. ione wells, bbc news, sao paulo. the foreign secretary, lord cameron, has told mps he is worried that israel might have breached international humanitarian law in gaza. he made his comments as israel also came under pressure from the us. our middle east correspondent yolande knell is injerusalem. yolande, hello to you. what has been

said and do you think it will make any difference to israeli policy? well, here, where we have got the us secretary of state antony blinken visiting, he has addressed a case by south africa which is being taken to the international court ofjustice accusing israel of genocide saying that that was meritless, but otherwise, he was here to repeat messages from washington particularly saying that the number of civilians who are being killed in gaza remains far too high. he has had this commitment from the israeli military that it will lower the intensity of the fighting but we are still seeing on the ground large numbers of people being killed by israeli air strikes in particular, and i have been looking at some really great pictures overnight from rafah in the race south where there are lots of displaced people and ten members of one family including children killed in an israeli air strike overnight, apparently. mr lincoln did say that a un team was

going to investigate displaced people going back to the north of the gaza strip —— mr blinken did say that was going to be investigated. after visiting arab neighbours, mr blinken carrying the message from them that if they are going to be involved in a post—war vision of gaza, they want to see the pathway created to the future of a palestinian state, there is a lot of objection to that within this hard israeli government.— israeli government. thank you, yolande. mps on the right of the conservative party have started tabling amendments to legislation around the government's plan to send some asylum seekers to rwanda. ministers say their approach will ensure that migrants who arrive in the uk on small boats can be deported to the african country but some tories believe it won't work unless individuals are stopped from mounting legal challenges against their removal. the boss of boeing has admitted the plane—maker was at fault after one of its aircraft suffered

a door blow—out shortly after take—off in the us. no—one was injured when the unused cabin door broke away from the alaska airlines flight and landed in a teacher's back garden in portland, oregon. stephen fry has called for an end to the use of real fur in the bearskin caps worn by the king's guard. the actor and author has backed a campaign by peta, people for the ethical treatment of animals, calling for fake fur to be used instead. the ministry of defence says the skins come from "legal and licensed hunts". young people who take and share nude pictures are contributing to a rise in sexual offences committed by children in england and wales. police figures suggest the offenders in half of all reported child abuse cases in england and wales were also under 18 and senior officers say some are not aware they are breaking the law. our home affairs correspondent tom symonds reports.

this website created by students in 2021 was a turning point, police say. he blackmailed me into sending him nude pictures. schoolchildren began revealing the sexual pressure they face from other children. he kept sending me photos of it and asking if i would have sex with him. including to appear nude. but these accounts aren't from two years ago. i said yes because i didn't want to lose him. they're from the last few months, and the stories keep coming. he sent them to my family, close friends and my school. the result is that reported abuse of children by children is growing and concerning, and it often involves phones and photos. it's a crime for anybody to take, to make, to share or distribute an indecent image of a child that is under 18, whether that's in a consensual relationship or not. and it's really important that young people understand that and the consequences of that, because whilst they may be in that consenting

relationship at that time, once that image is shared or uploaded onto a platform, it's lost. it can be shared among children, it can be used to blackmail or embarrass. senior officers say the ideas behind this abusive behaviour, most of it by boys, often come from violent and abusive online porn, available with just a few clicks. they want the government to back stricter controls. they know they have to use their discretion when assessing low level offences by children because convictions can severely damage their future prospects and they know they can't be parents. the message, we all need to have that uncomfortable conversation with our kids. tom symonds, bbc news. we have been covering that attempted to send an unmanned rocket to the moon and it all went a bit wrong.

not a soft landing. hat moon and it all went a bit wrong. not a soft landing.— moon and it all went a bit wrong. not a soft landing. not even a hard landinu. nasa has delayed its first mission to put astronauts on the moon for another 12 months meaning it won't happen until at least september 2026. if successful, artemis 3 will be the first lunar landing since 1972 but the agency needs more time to develop the craft and spacesuits. delays, even rockets get delayed. it is a tricky business getting to the moon. it is a tricky business getting to the moon. , ., ., ._ is a tricky business getting to the moon. , ., ., �*, ., moon. it is a long way. it's an exnensive _ moon. it is a long way. it's an expensive business _ moon. it is a long way. it's an expensive business as - moon. it is a long way. it's an expensive business as well. l moon. it is a long way. it's an - expensive business as well. lovely to have you with us this morning and matt is here with the weather as well. good morning. news that it is still cold out there, no real surprise but over the next few days it will be a slightly less chilly. we have got the air coming from a different direction but that shift in wind means we have got a bit more cloud heading our way and maybe one or two

showers although many of you will stay dry. right now out there it is frosty for some of you particularly to the south of england, wales, west of northern ireland and through central and western scotland. these are the lowest temperatures through each of the nations right now. we saw —9 in scotland, we saw even lower than that for a time but the green colours is where the tip which is above freezing. that is where we have had to the cloud spilling in. the frosty spots are sunny and less rusty spots will be gloomy. the cloud could be thick enough for a few showers, mainly rain but a bit of sleet mixing retreating to the hills. that will extend into parts of northern ireland. cloud in devon and cornwall could produce the odd shower but they will fade away, naming the channel islands. same in the south, the wind is not quite as strong as they have been. temperatures up a little bit. a

degree or so but enough of a breeze to make it feel chilly and the breeze is coming in from the sunshine making parts of eastern and southern scotland and northern england feel especially cold through this afternoon. for most it will be a dry day. clear skies and sunshine to end the day you will see a frost developed quickly into the evening and overnight, cloud still spilling in widely across scotland and into part of north wales, north midlands, what is cold here. in the clearer slots across —— not as cold here. looking ahead, temperatures holding at six or 7 degrees by day and the chance of a few showers this weekend. i know somewhere you would love to be right now. las vegas.— be right now. las vegas. definitely. not 'ust be right now. las vegas. definitely. notjust for— be right now. las vegas. definitely. notjust for a _ be right now. las vegas. definitely. not just for a holiday _ be right now. las vegas. definitely. not just for a holiday but _ be right now. las vegas. definitely. not just for a holiday but because . notjust for a holiday but because it is the place for gadgets and you

love your gadgets. we it is the place for gadgets and you love your gadgets.— it is the place for gadgets and you love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival _ love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival in _ love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival in vegas _ love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival in vegas is - love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival in vegas is one - love your gadgets. we all do, yes. the big festival in vegas is one of| the big festival in vegas is one of the best, i think. it the big festival in vegas is one of the best, ithink.— the best, ithink. it is, the bi est the best, ithink. it is, the biggest gadget _ the best, ithink. it is, the biggest gadget festival - the best, | think. it is, the - biggest gadget festival anywhere in the world, it is a kind of convention. the biggest tech companies in the world are there for the consumer electronics show. among the geeky things on show are smart mirrors, toothbrushes that use ai and hi—tech barbecues. james clayton has been for a look. i prefer toothpaste myself! there's a lot of weird tech at ces. take this hyundai prototype car, that, crab—like, move sideways into parking spaces. or drone soccer, where the goal is to fly a drone through a doughnut shaped goal, which is harder than it looks. now start using the left stick and start moving. as you can tell, it takes a little

bit of practice to fly! ok, so how would you how would you rate that out of ten? that was about a two. but the big theme of ces this year is al. it's everywhere. this is samsung's section, and probably more than any other company i've seen, they have gone fully on board with al. they have ai fridges, ai vacuum cleaners, even an ai washing machine. now, when you turn it on, you're going to see the ai. oh, so there's like an ai function. exactly. right. and so here, once you go into a different type of flooring, give itjust a second and you'll see that it's going to change. so it's definitely got some more power. ah, right, so you've not pressed anything? i've not pressed anything. i mean, do we actually need an ai vacuum cleaner? do we need it? of course you do. i actually have done something terrible for my health. i'm allergic to cats. do i have a cat? he's so cute. and so all his hair on the rug in the living room, i can now

confidently say that's coming up and it'll help me and my health as well. right, so ai can help you keep having a cat, that's the sale? yes, exactly! 0k. samsung's ai fridge can detect what food you have and suggest recipes. elsewhere at the show, an ai mirror made by baracoda can analyse your face and tell you what skincare regime you need. this could be brutal. i'm quitejet—lagged. ooh, eyebags are noticeable! i've just got off a ten hour flight. you don't need to explain to me. i think it's quite good! so imagine it's your personal mirror, right? so how do i close that? close. and this you're going to see every dayjust to make sure that you have all the steps. oh, so wow, so it's literally giving me an eye bag routine, i need cleanser, peptides in my eye

cream, a serum and retinol cream. yes. pretty harsh, but maybe ai is telling me what no—one else would dare to. there is one word of caution about all of these new a! products. two years ago, everyone here was talking about the metaverse. that is definitely not the case this year. it's notoriously difficult to know what's a fad and what's the next new tech trend. james clayton, bbc news, las vegas. fascinating, that, isn't it? you would never — fascinating, that, isn't it? you would never leave, _ fascinating, that, isn't it? you would never leave, you - fascinating, that, isn't it? gm. would never leave, you would just spend the whole time playing if you were there! , , ., , , , were there! there is serious stuff there i'm were there! there is serious stuff there i'm sure! — let's take a look at today's papers. the post office scandal continues to dominate the front pages. the sun has spoken to a postmaster in upper bucklebury, where the princess of wales grew up. he says her family supported him in his 10—yearfight to clear his name and now he wants to see every conviction overturned.

"now give back your millions" is the headline in the daily mail. the paper says campaigners have described former head of the post office paula vennells' decision to return her cbe as a "token gesture" and want her to pay back some of her bonuses. we will talk about that issue with some of the former supposed masters who will be sitting on the sofa with us, nine of them, at 8am. —— pro forma postmasters. the i reports that tech—firm fujitsu won £700 million worth of government contracts via a priority lane system, despite concerns over its faulty horizon software. another pressing issue in westminster. the times says rishi sunak is facing possible a revolt over his rwanda bill when it returns to the commons next week unless he listens to more

than 30 right—wing mps, who want to see an amendment which would prevent deportation flights from being blocked. that bill might still fail. the prime minister dealt with the potential mutiny on his backbenches just before christmas, it was pushed forward to the new year, he is now dealing with the post office but he has to deal with that in the next few days as well. we has to deal with that in the next few days as well.— has to deal with that in the next few days as well. we talked a lot about the darts _ few days as well. we talked a lot about the darts last _ few days as well. we talked a lot about the darts last week - few days as well. we talked a lot about the darts last week as - few days as well. we talked a lot| about the darts last week as well. luke littler versus luke humphries in the final. someone said, will this lead to a resurgence in darts? it would appear that hurt that has —— that has happened according to the daily mirror, darts mania has gripped the town where luke littler hone his skills. lots of people flooding, dart boards have sold out, you cannot get one for love nor

money. you cannot get one for love nor mone . . , ., , you cannot get one for love nor mone . . , .,, ,, , money. one dart shop in st helens has seen takings _ money. one dart shop in st helens has seen takings improve - money. one dart shop in st helens has seen takings improve on - money. one dart shop in st helens has seen takings improve on 50 . money. one dart shop in st helens i has seen takings improve on 50 grand on last year as people queue up, darts mania, they call it. absolutely incredible, brilliant. inspiring a generation. it's a skill that millions of us take for granted but far too many adults still struggle with reading, and one education expert is calling for the government to start keeping better data on the exact figure. the good news is that it's never too late to learn, as our reporter suzanne allen discovered when she went to an adult literacy class in motherwell. irene had a tough time at school and left unable to read or write. i had no confidence in myself. i couldn't even go and... you know, folk would say, "right, you need to fill that form in." and that's it, ijust started shaking. you couldn't spell, you would get, you know, "you dunce, you're stupid." did anyone ever call you that? yes.

did they, really, someone called you a dunce, a teacher? aye, yes, i used to get put into a wee classroom in the corner, with a colouring book. like irene, henry couldn't read or write age 49. for the last year and a half, he's been coming here to an adult literacy class under the tutelage of maria. he is my pal. pal, great. school for henry had been torturous. he'd been bullied by the other children. i couldn't read or write at all. so could you write your name? just about my name, i couldn't write my address at all. i wondered how he'd coped with bills, and reading labels. i just asked somebody. henry was functionally illiterate. that's people that can only read or write basic words, and would struggle with a medical prescription or text message. the last scottish government survey was in 2009. problems with literacy then were at 26%. low numeracy skills are around 56%.

that's the equivalent of 1.9 million working age adults. one education expert says these levels are concerning and we need to collect data. the scottish government has declined to take part in the respected international studies of adult numeracy. we should be getting up—to—date global standard data to find out what's going on. however, from the most recent data that we have, we can say that the standards of low levels of literacy and numeracy in scotland are really quite concerning. for irene, reading is now a joy. i'm actually sat and reading a book that i would never, ever do in a month of sundays. the scottish government says it's put over £1 million into adult learning this year and has also announced an independent review of community learning provision across scotland. suzanne allen, bbc news. you're watching breakfast. still to come on today's programme.

i was lucky to be doing this job, and i really felt it was useful, and, you know, valuable to somebody. might help save their lives. we'll hear from the wren officer who secretly mapped the normandy shoreline for the allied troops on d—day and why she wants to be there for the 80th anniversary commemorations injune. amazing story. time now to get the news, travel and weather where you are. a very good morning from bbc london, i'm alice salfield. more than 900 sexual offences were reported on the tube last year, according to figures obtained by the liberal democrats. the figures also show there were more than 3,500 violent incidents and nearly 740 robberies. and the party says there's been a significant increase in all three

categories of crime compared to the previous year. tfl says it continues to work closely with the police and london's night—time industry to get people, particularly women, home safely. nine london schools have been designated attendance hubs by the government to try to tackle a rise in truancy. the schools, which have excellent attendance records, will share their expertise with others that are struggling. more than one in five children in england are now classed as persistently absent from school. before the pandemic, it was one in ten. london has been found to be the slowest city in the world to drive around, for the second year in a row. the data, from the sat nav company tomtom, suggests the increase in 20mph speed limits is part of the reason. tfl says the analysis only looked at central london and so isn't representative of the city as a whole. when we go into hospital for treatments or to visit someone, it's natural to feel anxious and stressed.

but at the royal london hospital, they've tried to change the mood by becoming a concert venue twice a week. it was the idea of an eminent gynaecologist who devoted his career to this particular trust. they're not meant to sit and listen. theyjust pass through, they pick up a strand of music as they go through, give a smile, thumbs up. when words fail, music speaks, and we've had plenty of evidence that that's really true. so i think it does make a difference and people have said to us it makes a difference to them individually. let's take a look at the tubes. and there are minor delays on the central and severe delays on the victoria line at the moment. time for the weather. here's kawser. hello and a very good morning to you. it's another chilly start to the day, but, once again, we're expecting plenty in the way of crisp winter sunshine across the region. although it's still quite breezy out there with that fairly brisk east to northeasterly wind, there'll be some patches of cloud, but plenty in the way of sunshine into the afternoon,

too, and temperatures reaching around 4—6 celsius. but add on the strength of that wind and, again, it will feel much colder. this evening and overnight, largely dry conditions, some patches of cloud, but lots of clear weather. temperatures quite widely dipping to freezing or below — we're looking at overnight lows of —1 to —3 celsius. so certainly a chilly start to thursday and high pressure does stay with us as we look ahead to thursday and friday, too. but we're drawing in some slightly less cold air and more in the way of cloud, as well. so for thursday, it does become cloudy into the afternoon and, by friday, cloudy conditions for all and maybe even the odd spot of drizzle and temperatures up to around 8 celsius, but colder again during the weekend. that's it. head to our website to find out some of the unusual things that have gone missing from museums in london, including a false moustache. see you in half an hour.

hello, this is breakfast with sarah campbell and jon kay. the cabin—mate of an albanian man believed to have taken his own life on a barge for asylum seekers says he fears others will harm themselves if conditions aren't improved. leonard farruku died last month on the bibby stockholm vessel, which is moored off portland, dorset. the death is being investigated by the police and the coroner and his funeral takes place in albania today. our west of england correspondent danjohnson reports. then i started knock, knock, "are you ok, my friend, are you ok?

yusuf was the last person to see leonard farruku alive, a fellow asylum seeker and his roommate on the bibby stockholm. did he seem happy? so you didn't think he was struggling? but almost a month ago, leonard was found dead in the bathroom of their shared cabin. and that was 12 hours before he was discovered early the next morning. and yusuf says he initially found it

difficult to raise the alarm. three to four times? he says many are struggling with life on the bibby stockholm and he still hears their complaints. and there's a fear about

what this could lead to. the home office told us it takes the welfare of those in its care very seriously and that any concerns are swiftly addressed. it also highlighted the migrant help phone line, which is available 24/7 for anyone in need. leonard farruku's family raised thousands of pounds to return his body to albania. his funeral today marks the saddest end to a journey he made in hope. what lessons, if any, his death should teach us will be for his inquest to decide later this year. what do you think should happen to the bibby stockholm, then?

dan johnson, bbc news. we will of course keep across that ongoing story. we will of course keep across that ongoing story-— we will of course keep across that ongoing story. now the sport. good morninu. morning. chelsea fans disappointed again. it is a familiar old feeling for them. middlesbrough are not disappointed. halfway there to wembley with a win in the first leg. chelsea, £1 billion spent and still no joy. really wasteful yesterday. but still a second leg to come. for now, middlesbrough, who won the trophy almost 20 years ago, the only major trophy they have won in their

history. the manager called on players to invoke the spirit of 2014 and they did that. —— 2004 win. patrick gearey was watching. commentator: hayden hackney! they're halfway there. only one goal and only one leg, but look what it meant for hayden hackney, for middlesbrough, this was some statement. teesside pride — you could see it and feel it before kick—off, even if, initially, boro couldn't channel it. cole palmer might have punished them — should have punished them. because little more than five minutes later, the championship side bypassed chelsea and got to hackney. hayden isjust 21, born down the road in redcar — one of their own. if that was the glory, now they'd need guts and luck. another chance for palmer, another life for boro. chelsea have spent more than £1 billion on players, but their purchases have come with no guarantee. they still have the second leg, they still have time, but do they command patience? boro know they have a long way to go, but they travel

with the comfort that, on the other side of chelsea, is wembley. patrick gearey, bbc news. so middlesbrough have half the job done — the second leg later this month. tonight, the second semifinal sees fulham travel to liverpool, who won this tropy a couple of years ago. they're missing several players through injury and international duty, but their assistant manager says they have a real hunger to make the final. when we are young you want to play in the most iconic stadiums in the world and wembley is one of them. there is so much history and so many memories we already made there. so you want to go there. i think the team has this hunger. it's the closest final we can reach. we have to respect fulham. we need to be spot on in all departments, that's for sure. dominic calvert—lewin has had his red card overturned after everton appealed against his sending off against crystal palace in the fa cup. he was dismissed for this challenge on nathaniel clyne — the first red card of his career.

he was facing a three match ban but is now free to play. fran kirby says the issue of body—shaming isn'tjust a women's football problem. the england and chelsea midfielder is speaking out about the issue after receiving criticism over her body on social media. kirby — who says she covers up because she gets called "fat", in her words — is concerned that younger players need to be protected. you don't become accustomed to it. of course, you know, there's still things that you read. i read things about myself and i'm like, oh, really, is that what people think about me or is that how i look? you know, and it still impacts me. but, you know, i'm kind of a bit more better with dealing with that, whereas a younger player maybe coming through that gets a comment like that could end up, you know, not eating. i've had comments where people go, oh, fran played really, really well today, what a game, but she looks a little bit big today. and i'm like, but why

is the comment necessary, then? if i've played well and you think that i've been one of the best players on the pitch, it shouldn't matter how my body shape is. bayern munich lit up their stadium last night with "thank you, franz" in tribute to franz beckenbauer who died on sunday. he led the club to domestic and european success in the 19605 and 19705, also winning the world cup with germany as both a player and as manager. with the start of the australian open just a few days away, emma raducanu has withdrawn from another exhibition match. the 21—year—old pulled out of an event yesterday and has now cancelled a second match as her preparations for the first grand slam of the year are hampered by soreness following her first few weeks back on the tour after a long injury layoff last year. former champions mark allen, john higgins and mark selby all play later at the masters snooker. defending championjudd trump is through to the quarterfinals but was taken to a final—frame decider by kyren wilson.

that went the distance, too, with trump needing the final black. the two—time winner will now face ali carter in the last eight on friday. but former champion neil robertson has been knocked out by barry hawkins, who beat the australian 6—3. he'll face ronnie o'sullivan next. mark allen againstjohn higgins from one o'clock this afternoon and mark selby and robert milkins from seven o'clock. uninterrupted coverage on the iplayer. we were talking about darts mania which after a week is going on. darts boards, you cannot get hold of them, they are sold out. my them, they are sold out. my nephews have already asked for them. not with magnets, a proper darts board. will we trust seven—year—olds with that? maybe. and later you have holes on

the walls. it has been really cold. the video of the bus spinning around yesterday we showed. will the cold weather continue? here's matt with a look at the weather. it is looking frosty behind you. it is looking frosty behind you. it is looking frosty behind you. it is a frosty start for some. the cold weather, may a tiny bit less cold weather, may a tiny bit less cold in the next days but will return next week. we have high pressure still. it has moved northwards, and the shift of the wind direction bringing slightly less cold air. more cloud. parts of scotland, northern england, parts of northern ireland. thick enough for showers at times. they will be wintry over higher ground. the rest of scotland, southern parts of england and wales, after a frosty

start, a cold but sunny day. still a breeze. cloud in the south—west will clear. temperatures here 3—4. add in the noticeable wind, it will feel closer to freezing but not quite as cold as it has in the past days. that is today. most places drying. some of the showers will continue in eastern areas of scotland and north—east england tonight. and some in eastern northern ireland. cloud in eastern northern ireland. cloud in the midlands tonight and in north wales. the areas most likely to see frost are parts of western scotland, southern counties of england and wales and temperatures could drop to minus 3—4, similar to what we have out here at the moment. on thursday, sunshine around in places that start coldness. cloud increases from the north to the midlands, east anglia and more of wales through the day.

cloudy in north—east scotland. also southern scotland and northern ireland. western scotland and western fringes of wales and the south—west will still have sunshine by the end of the day. temperatures similar to today. wednesday night, i am sorry thursday night, these spots have the clearest skies. western scotland, southwest, so the greatest chance of frost. more cloud through the night into friday. a grey day for sun. the wind direction will shift and in scotland, it is western areas that will see more cloud. eastern parts of scotland seeing more sunshine but elsewhere cloudy and cool. temperatures 7—8, not far from where we should be at this stage injanuary. into the weekend, high pressure to begin with which splits which allows a northerly wind

particularly into sunday. some weak weather fronts are likely to bring more cloud. and the chance of showers. also the risk of fog through the end of the week and into the weekend. especially in scotland and northern ireland. as we go through the weekend, temperatures will drop. the wind will be northerly and in northern and eastern scotland, showers are more likely to have sleet and snow. next week with cold air, we have to watch out for the chance of snow even further south. that is how it out for the chance of snow even further south. that is how it is looking. that was a cliffhanger. thank you. it's the 80th anniversary of the d—day landings this year and one woman who is hoping to visit the beaches of normandy for the first time, to pay her respects, is 103—year—old christian lamb. christian was an officer in the women's royal naval service and herjob was to secretly map

the shoreline in advance of the attack. she's been sharing her memories of that time with breakfast�*s john maguire. on that day, all who could get their hands on newspapers read the news for which they had been waiting so long. as the news of the d—day landings was greeted with relief and great excitement by the british public, those who'd worked tirelessly to make them happen shared that sense of historic achievement. among them was christian lamb. at six in the morning, i heard the news that they had landed. i was very, very thrilled. ijust remember thinking thank goodness, at last, it's happened. she's being brought back to whitehall by the taxi charity for military veterans to visit the area where she worked 80 years ago. in honour of her service, a suite has been named after her in the old war office buildings — now a raffles

hotel called the owo. when you think of the history of the building at the time, during the war, the building was run by women. so we felt we should give a bit of credit to these incredible women that have helped the nation and helped the entire world, when you think of it — especially me, a frenchman. i owe so much to miss lamb. i should say welcome to your suite. the one upstairs i think is yours, but you get the idea. you're going to come in and sit down — shall we? have a chat and a cup of tea? as a 23—year—old wren in the royal navy, she helped to create maps for the landing craft. they wanted me to draw these maps, which were to make sure that the people who were landing had a very good identify of all land — a picture, so that they could see what they were likely to see if they landed —

like a church or wide roads and stations and that sort of thing. christian worked alone. secrecy was paramount. and their roles were never discussed, but she was always aware ofjust how important her endeavours were. my office was down the stairs. i mean, we used to occasionally see winston churchill going up the stairs, but not the basement stairs. he didn't lower himself to that, no. i personally never talked about it, but i was very, very thankful to be doing something as a wren which was useful, because there were so manyjobs that you could have had which were completely useless, really. but there were people doing them. but i was lucky to be doing thisjob and i really felt it was useful and, you know, valuable to somebody — might help save their lives. i felt that very strongly. gold beach is where the where the brits landed. gold isjust there, yeah.

so it's got them marked —juno. we're looking at modern—day maps of the normandy coastline — areas once so familiar to her but never seen since. i haven't actually ever looked at a map since then. oh, really? no. well, i don't know, this might be thanks to your endeavours. well, i can remember bayeux, as well. the place where they had battles which went on for some time. despite playing a role in the success of the allied invasion, she's never been to the areas she charted in such vital detail. but she says she would love to visit the region. it would mean a lot, really. i would like to see the exact places where they stayed, but, i mean, it's such a long time ago. there won't be many people who are alive still that were alive then. so it's just a matter of trying to remember and thinking what it must have been like. but you'd love to go? mm, it would be interesting. i'd spent a year in france.

just at the beginning of the war, i came back from france and i was completely bilingual by then, so it's all there somewhere. it takes a bit of coming out. a few glasses of alcohol always help. looking out onto whitehall, christian remembers her bus stop at horse guards opposite and some off—duty antics with a colleague. one of the wrens who was training with me was always in trouble, as well, always being late for everything and getting punished. you were always punished and having to scrub the floor. got rather fed up with that. so every now and again we used to get onto her motorbike and tear around hyde park to cheer ourselves up. which we did, yeah. we filmed with her last summer as she flew in a miles magister training aircraft, recreating a flight she'd last taken in 1943.

so her adventurous spirit is undimmed and to visit the beaches she charted with such great effect 80 years ago remains an ambition for this 103—year—old who continues to live a remarkable life. john maguire, bbc news, whitehall. 103. she is amazing. she is phenomenal. we have a guest here. brian heffernan is the head of the taxi charity for military veterans, which arranges transport for ex—servicemen and women across europe. you transported christian. what was she like? she was remarkable. 103. she had it all appear. really was a lovely lady. her carer bronwen was just as lovely. i was learning so much on such a shortjourney and i am looking forward to working with her again later this year. you am looking forward to working with her again later this year.— her again later this year. you will be art of her again later this year. you will be part of the _ her again later this year. you will be part of the anniversary? - her again later this year. you will be part of the anniversary? yes, | be part of the anniversary? yes, lookin:

be part of the anniversary? yes, looking forward _ be part of the anniversary? yes, looking forward to _ be part of the anniversary? yes, looking forward to that. - be part of the anniversary? ye: looking forward to that. she said i am not going to be here and we said yes you will be. she is 104 injuly so fingers crossed she will still be there injune. i think she will. fit, there injune. i think she will. a remarkable lady. explain the connection between the charity and veterans. indie connection between the charity and veterans. ~ ., connection between the charity and veterans. ~ . , ., , . veterans. we have been going since 1948 and we — veterans. we have been going since 1948 and we had _ veterans. we have been going since 1948 and we had our— veterans. we have been going since 1948 and we had our 75th _ veterans. we have been going since l 1948 and we had our 75th anniversary as a charity last year. we want to give something back to those willing to give their lines for this —— lives for this country. the taxi trade and military have a close connection. as well as working with world war ii veterans we work with others, the chelsea pensioners, household cavalry. we try to interact with these services and hopefully bring something to them as they get older and need more help. we can see you here with veterans you have taken across the channel on various trips. they must be some

journeys. various trips. they must be some 'ourne s. , ~ ., journeys. sometimes i think we are doinu a journeys. sometimes i think we are doing a tour— journeys. sometimes i think we are doing a tour of— journeys. sometimes i think we are doing a tour of europe. _ journeys. sometimes i think we are doing a tour of europe. the - doing a tour of europe. the netherlands, normandy, belgium, germany. germany in taxis. that is pretty cool. people must think what is a taxi doing around here? taking veterans is a highlight. we are cool with it, we love it. is veterans is a highlight. we are cool with it, we love it.— with it, we love it. is there a particular— with it, we love it. is there a particular moment _ with it, we love it. is there a particular moment on - with it, we love it. is there a particular moment on these | with it, we love it. is there a - particular moment on these journeys that stays in your mind and you think, that was it, it sums it up? apologies, i cannot remember his name, i remember his carer was nikki harris. he went back to normandy for the first time ever last year because he was embarrassed to go back because he never got his feet landing on d—day he was d—day plus one, two. he took him down to the beach and let him put his feet in the water and when we got back from normandy a few weeks later he passed away. so we did that thing for him money cannot buy. almost like he

needed to do that? he needed to cleanse his soul and he did it and we were happy to be part of the journey for him. it is we were happy to be part of the journey for him.— journey for him. it is a special ear, journey for him. it is a special year. both — journey for him. it is a special year, 80th anniversary. - journey for him. it is a special year, 80th anniversary. we i journey for him. it is a special. year, 80th anniversary. we have journey for him. it is a special- year, 80th anniversary. we have done our 75th. year, 80th anniversary. we have done our75th- this— year, 80th anniversary. we have done our 75th. this is _ year, 80th anniversary. we have done our 75th. this is d-day _ year, 80th anniversary. we have done our 75th. this is d-day so. _ year, 80th anniversary. we have done our 75th. this is d-day 80. will- our 75th. this is d—day 80. will they be here in 85? i don't know. macro me i want to make it a special yearfor macro me i want to make it a special year for everybody but especially for these ladies and gentlemen and especially for christian. she has never seen normandy. i think she has only seen it from a periscope. we want to take her back and say this is what you have done, thank you. despite the connection to the place that has been with her all those decades, she has not actually been there. we decades, she has not actually been there. ~ ., ., ., ., there. we are looking forward to brinuain there. we are looking forward to bringing her— there. we are looking forward to bringing her back _ there. we are looking forward to bringing her back and _ there. we are looking forward to bringing her back and saying - there. we are looking forward to l bringing her back and saying thank you, christian, you have saved many lives. ~ ., ., , ., ., ., you, christian, you have saved many lives. ~ ., ., ., ., lives. what do you get out of this? me personally. _ lives. what do you get out of this?

me personally. i — lives. what do you get out of this? me personally, i am _ lives. what do you get out of this? me personally, i am a _ lives. what do you get out of this? me personally, i am a history- lives. what do you get out of this? me personally, i am a history fan. | me personally, i am a history fan. so to be with living history has been great for me. people like christian. we have veterans from arnhem. just to be with them, knowing that i know those people. i only used to read about them in books. ., , , , . ., only used to read about them in books. ., , , , . . . books. for me it is special. so what will happen — books. for me it is special. so what will happen in _ books. for me it is special. so what will happen in june? _ books. for me it is special. so what will happen in june? how _ books. for me it is special. so what will happen in june? how does - books. for me it is special. so what will happen in june? how does the l will happen injune? how does the journey take place? we will happen in june? how does the journey take place?— journey take place? we are going down for a _ journey take place? we are going down for a special _ journey take place? we are going down for a special party - journey take place? we are going down for a special party on - journey take place? we are going down for a special party on june | journey take place? we are going i down for a special party on june the down for a special party onjune the 3rd in portsmouth and then we set sail on tuesday afternoon during the fourth. celebrations onjune the 6th and then we return home on gene the eighth, a saturday. it will be an exciting five days but mainly for the veterans it will be great. [30 the veterans it will be great. do ou the veterans it will be great. do you know how many will travel with you? you know how many will travel with ou? , ., ., ., , you know how many will travel with ou? ., ., you? due to funding, not as many as we would like- _ you? due to funding, not as many as we would like. we _ you? due to funding, not as many as we would like. we would _ you? due to funding, not as many as we would like. we would like - you? due to funding, not as many as we would like. we would like to - you? due to funding, not as many as we would like. we would like to take | we would like. we would like to take everybody. unless we have more

funding, the french have up to the room prices a little bit for normandy and everything is more expensive because of the 80th anniversary. maybe 20, 25. we have the room is booked, it isjust how many come with us. the room is booked, it is 'ust how many come with us._ the room is booked, it is 'ust how many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk — many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk to — many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk to you _ many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk to you again _ many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk to you again in _ many come with us. brian, thank you. we will talk to you again in the - we will talk to you again in the summer, i am sure. from the taxi charity. summer, i am sure. from the taxi chari . ., ., ., summer, i am sure. from the taxi charity-_ 0n - summer, i am sure. from the taxi charity-_ 0n the i charity. you are online? on the world wide _ charity. you are online? on the world wide web. _ charity. you are online? on the world wide web. i _ charity. you are online? on the world wide web. i have - charity. you are online? on the world wide web. i have not. charity. you are online? on the i world wide web. i have not heard that for a while! thank you. still to come on breakfast. the actor suejohnston will be on the sofa for a chat about her role in the new channel 4 drama true love about a group of pensioners who make a pact to help each other die. that is really timely. an issue that has been in the papers. an interesting watch. that is just before eight o'clock. when will ——

we will be joined by sub—postmaster is to tell their story about the post office scandal. time to get the news, travel and weather where you are. a very good morning from bbc london, i'm alice salfield. there's been a rise in the number of sexual offences recorded on the tube, according to british transport police figures. the data, obtained by the liberal democrats, shows there were more than 900 sexual offences and more than 3,500 violent incidents in the year from december 2022. tfl says it continues to work closely with the police and london's night—time industry to get people, particularly women, home safely. london has been found to be the slowest city in the world to drive around for the second year in a row. the data, from the sat nav company tomtom, suggests the increase in 20 mile per hour speed limits is part of the reason.

the mayor's office described the study as "misleading" as it only looked at central london. nine london schools have been designated "attendance hubs" by the government, to try to tackle a rise in truancy. the schools, which all have excellent attendance records, will share their expertise with others that are struggling. more than one in five children in england are now classed as persistently absent from school. before the pandemic, it was one in ten. when we go into hospital for treatments or to visit someone, it's natural to feel anxious and stressed. but at the royal london hospital they've tried to change the mood by becoming a concert venue twice a week. it was the idea of an eminent gynaecologist who devoted his career to this particular trust. they're not meant to sit and listen. theyjust pass through, they pick up a strand of music as they go through, give a smile, thumbs up. when words fail, music speaks, and we've had plenty of evidence that that's really true. so i think it does make a difference and people have said to us it makes

a difference to them individually. now let's take a look at how the tubes are running this morning. and there are minor delays on the central, jubilee and metropolitan lines with severe delays on the victoria line at the moment. time for the weather. here's kawser. hello and a very good morning to you. it's another chilly start to the day, but, once again, we're expecting plenty in the way of crisp winter sunshine across the region. although it's still quite breezy out there with that fairly brisk east to northeasterly wind, there'll be some patches of cloud, but plenty in the way of sunshine into the afternoon, too, and temperatures reaching around 4—6 celsius. but add on the strength of that wind and, again, it will feel much colder. this evening and overnight, largely dry conditions, some patches of cloud, but lots of clear weather. temperatures quite widely dipping to freezing or below — we're looking at overnight lows of —1 to —3 celsius. so certainly a chilly start to thursday and high pressure does stay with us as we look ahead to thursday and friday, too. but we're drawing in some slightly less cold air and more

in the way of cloud, as well. so for thursday, it does become cloudy into the afternoon and, by friday, cloudy conditions for all and maybe even the odd spot of drizzle and temperatures up to around 8 celsius, but colder again during the weekend. that's it but head to our website to find out some of the unusual items that have gone missing from museums in london, including a false moustache. see you in half an hour.

good morning, welcome to breakfast with sarah campbell and jon kay. our headlines today, questions in parliament for the prime minister over the post office it scandal which saw

hundreds of innocent sub—postmasters wrongly convicted for fraud and theft. bosses at the tech firm behind the faulty software fujitsu are called to parliament by mps. former post office boss paula vennells hands back her cbe. now she's facing pressure to return more than £2 million of bonuses. the moment masked gunmen break into a live television studio in ecuador as a state of emergency is declared. should baby formula be more affordable? as one manufacturer tells the bbc they're cutting their prices, we ask what impact the cost of this essential is having on families. it's advantage middlesbrough in their league cup semifinal after a 1—0 win over a wasteful chelsea in their first leg at the riverside stadium.

whilst the wind will have less bite over the next few days, it stays cold with a lot more clout around as well. full details coming up on breakfast. it's wednesday the 10th of january. the prime minister will face questions in parliament today over the post office horizon it scandal which saw hundreds of innocent sub—postmasters wrongly sentenced for fraud and theft. the former post office boss paula vennells yesterday bowed to public pressure to give up her cbe but more questions remain over the number of government contracts that are still being awarded to fujitsu, which supplied the faulty it system, and the delays in quashing convictions and awarding compensation. our political correspondent peter saull has the latest. it was an announcement that added insult to their injury, depicted in the recent itv drama. paula vennells has got the cbe. joking!

but now the former boss of the post office has agreed to hand back her honour, adding that she was truly sorry for the devastation caused. downing street said it was the right decision. another seniorfigure, adam crozier, who ran royal mail between 2003 and 2010, has expressed his heartfelt sympathies to those wronged by what he called the tragic miscarriages ofjustice. meanwhile, ministers are working on a plan to speed up the process of exonerating the victims amid calls for legislation that would quash their convictions. we can do something good, mr speaker, together, if the justice secretary would bring a simple bill to quash all 800 immediately. the suggestions he made is receiving active consideration. i expect to be able to make further announcements shortly. the government is expected to set out exactly what it plans to do by the end of the week. there are concerns, though, about parliament interfering with court rulings. we have to do things, we have to get this sorted, but we also have to be very careful it's notjust reactive

because kneejerk legislation, as we know from previous examples, other examples doesn't always work. and there are questions about fujitsu, which made the faulty horizon accounting software. company bosses have been summoned to appear before a committee of mps next week. should it be blocked from getting new government contracts? action on that appears unlikely, though, before the public inquiry into the scandal, which started three years ago, concludes. it's due to resume hearing evidence tomorrow and will surely have a far bigger audience than before. peter saull, bbc news. a big day in westminster today on the post office scandal, let's go there live, and speak to henry. we know that paula vennells is bowing to pressure and handing back her cbe, now called from the public for her to hand back her bonuses as well and it's notjust about her, it goes wider than that.—

wider than that. after all these ears, wider than that. after all these years. this _ wider than that. after all these years, this scandal— wider than that. after all these years, this scandal is _ wider than that. after all these years, this scandal is now - wider than that. after all these i years, this scandal is now ripping through the corridors of power and i think we are going to hear a lot more about it today of course. firstly, there are still some outstanding questions with paula vennells, she hasn't yet testified to the independent inquiry into this scandal so she is focused on cooperating with it, she says. when she does testify that will be a huge moment. in in the meantime ship we have got mps and some sub—postmasters calling on her to hand back her bonuses she received when she was the chief executive. we have got fujitsu uk, the company behind the horizon computer system, being called to give evidence before parliament next week but there are questions behind their government contracts, the uk government is for gypsy contracts, the uk government is for gypsy uk's biggest customer. should —— fidget sue uk's biggest customer. the biggest immediate question is, what is the government going to do

to exonerate the sub—postmasters? only 90 also of the more than 700 who have been convicted have managed to get their convictions overturned. i am told we are going to hear more on that imminently, potentially at prime minister's questions, we will hearfrom rishi sunak and all the signs are that government is considering something extraordinary, to pass a law saying with the force of parliament that the remaining convictions are quashed, the sub—postmasters were innocent and as a consequence they would be able to go forward and claim compensation and that would be extremely unusual, like nothing i have seen before. increasingly in government they think this is a scandal of such magnitude that it requires an unprecedented response. thank you ve much unprecedented response. thank you very much indeed. _ at eight o'clock, we'll be joined on the sofa by eight sub—postmasters and the son of one who had their personal and professional lives torn

apart by this scandal. some of them are speaking for the first time. we'll be hearing their stories, and what they want to happen next. what are the questions they have those in authority? notjust now but over the last two decades. we will hear from them just after 8am. more of the news now with sarah including dramatic extraordinary pictures from south america overnight. thirteen people have been arrested after masked gunmen stormed a live television studio in ecuador. at least one employee had a gun held to his head before the pictures cut out but police say all captives have now been freed. our south america correspondent ione wells reports. a moment of utter horror broadcast live on television. armed men with balaclavas over their face broke into the set of this public television channel in ecuador while it was live

on air, brandishing guns and what appears to be explosives. it comes a day after the country's new president, daniel noboa, declared a state of emergency. ecuador has been rocked by a series of attacks after the apparent escape of a powerful gang leader, jose adolfo macias, from prison. the president ordered the military and police to intervene in controlling prisons in an attempt to tame the violence. but the violence has exploded further since then. explosions in the streets, police officers carrying out stop and search. some reportedly being abducted. for ordinary people in ecuador, terror on the streets. translation: i hope that this state of emergency yields results, - positive results for the population, not for the criminals. translation: we live in constant| fear because on a day to day basis, when we go out to work,

we don't know if we'll return or if we'll come back home in one piece. the suspects tonight have now been detained, but with ecuador still on high alert, fearfor citizens there remains. ione wells, bbc news, sao paulo. the foreign secretary, lord cameron, has told mps he is worried that israel might have breached international humanitarian law in gaza. he made his comments as israel also came under pressure from the us. our middle east correspondent yolande knell is injerusalem. yolande, the secretary of state antony blinken nearing the end of his visit there, are we looking any closer to the end of hostilities? i mean, not really at this stage. we have had the state department indicating that part of its plan here 41 was double tapping messages

that washington —— part of its plan here for mr blinken with double tapping messages that washington already were giving to israel and chief among those with reducing the number of casualties of civilians in gaza, mr blinking said to hi —— mr blinken said it was far too high. also the humanitarian situation was dire, he said, no real breakthrough at the moment about the idea of israeli hostages being released by hamas. the israeli military has said it is moving to less intense fighting in gaza but overnight we have seen more deadly air strikes, our team in have seen more deadly air strikes, ourteam in rafah have seen more deadly air strikes, our team in rafah saying ten people from one family including children were killed in a strike there. otherwise, one new achievement mr blinken can point to is this commitment for a un mission to go into the north of gaza that looks at what needs to be done is displaced palestinians can return to their

homes, that's something washington has been insisting on. today we will see a return to the subject of post—war gaza as mr blinken goes to meet palestinian leaders who are political rivals of hamas in the occupied west bank and say that real reforms are needed so the palestinian authority and hopefully washington thinks can take a role in the future government of gaza. thank ou ve the future government of gaza. thank you very much. _ the future government of gaza. thank you very much, yolande. _ the boss of boeing has admitted the plane—maker was at fault after one of its aircraft suffered a door blow—out shortly after take—off in the us. no—one was injured when the unused cabin door broke away from the alaska airlines flight and landed in a teacher's garden in portland, oregon. stephen fry has called for an end to the use of real fur in the bearskin caps worn by the king's guard. the actor and author has backed a campaign by peta, people for the ethical treatment of animals, calling for fake fur to be used instead. the ministry of defence says the skins come from "legal and licensed hunts".

and more bad news for nasa after this rocket suffered a fault in space. the space agency has delayed its first mission to put astronauts on the moon for another 12 months meaning it won't happen until at least september 2026. if successful, artemis iii will be the first lunar landing since 1972 but the agency needs more time to develop the craft and spacesuits. young people who take and share nude pictures are contributing to a rise in sexual offences committed by children in england and wales. police figures suggest the offenders in half of all reported child abuse cases in england and wales were also under 18 and senior officers say some are not aware they are breaking the law. our home affairs correspondent tom symonds reports. this website created by students in 2021 was a turning point, police say. he blackmailed me into sending him nude pictures. schoolchildren began revealing the sexual pressure they face

from other children. he kept sending me photos of it and asking if i would have sex with him. including to appear nude. but these accounts aren't from two years ago. i said yes because i didn't want to lose him. they're from the last few months, and the stories keep coming. he sent them to my family, close friends and my school. the result is that reported abuse of children by children is growing and concerning, and it often involves phones and photos. it's a crime for anybody to take, to make, to share or distribute an indecent image of a child that is under 18, whether that's in a consensual relationship or not. and it's really important that young people understand that and the consequences of that, because whilst they may be in that consenting relationship at that time, once that image is shared or uploaded onto a platform, it's lost. it can be shared among children, it can be used to blackmail or embarrass.

senior officers say the ideas behind this abusive behaviour, most of it by boys, often come from violent and abusive online porn, available with just a few clicks. they want the government to back stricter controls. they know they have to use their discretion when assessing low level offences by children because convictions can severely damage their future prospects and they know they can't be parents. the message, we all need to have that uncomfortable conversation with our kids. tom symonds, bbc news. the rac is calling for a government investigation into certain types of headlights after drivers said they were affected by the glare. the organisation says the increased use of leds as opposed to yellower halogen bulbs could be to blame. the rac�*s research showed many drivers believe they are too bright. a proper back massage can be one of life's most indulgent

and relaxing experiences but would you want one from a robot? i thought you were going to say, do you want one? not now! this machine uses the latest ai technology to take a 3d scan of the body, then creates a massage specifically for that person which is then delivered by a robotic arm. that's weird, the hand looks almost real. its inventor says it will help spas and hotels which are struggling to recruit masseurs because it's such a demanding job. he seems to be enjoying it, that chap, he is flat out having a good old snooze. i am worried about where the oil might go on the machinery, it could cause rust and problems. i will be honest, i will be willing to try it. will be honest, i will be willing to t it. ., . , ., will be honest, i will be willing to tit. try it. notice it is all blokes auoin try it. notice it is all blokes going for — try it. notice it is all blokes going for this. _ try it. notice it is all blokes going for this. let's - try it. notice it is all blokes going for this. let's leave l try it. notice it is all blokes i going for this. let's leave that there. i don't _ going for this. let's leave that there. i don't know— going for this. let's leave that there. i don't know how - going for this. let's leave that| there. i don't know how restful going for this. let's leave that - there. i don't know how restful and relaxin: there. i don't know how restful and relaxing the _ there. i don't know how restful and relaxing the weather _ there. i don't know how restful and relaxing the weather is _ there. i don't know how restful and relaxing the weather is going - there. i don't know how restful and relaxing the weather is going to i there. i don't know how restful and | relaxing the weather is going to be, dodgy stuff on the horizon!

yes, we are going to keep a close eye on next week, potentially a bit more snow around. but the time being is a relatively quiet certainly after weeks. cloud developing, think becoming little bit less chilly but it is still going to be cold out there and it will be for at least another week or so. the coldest at the moment is where we have seen the clear skies through the night, temperatures lowest there, —9 in the last half an hour in scotland. the green areas where temperatures are above freezing is where the cloud has floated into the night and it will bring some outbreaks of rain and drizzle particularly east of scotland and parts of northern england through this evening and later today. the cloud will encroach into the midlands and parts of mid wales through the day. cloud towards devon and cornwall could produce the

odd shower this morning but that will clear through, same in the channel islands, should brighten up, southern parts state sunny, western scotland, as well, and temperatures close to where we should be for the time of year but a noticeable breeze. three or four in the channel islands, the stiff wind will make it feel colder. into tonight, the breeze will feed the cloud further south across parts of wales and into the midlands. clearer skies in western scotland and southern counties of england and wales where we see the frost taking us into tomorrow, temperatures as low as —3 or —4. cloud over the next few days and some mist and fog on friday in parts of scotland and northern ireland. thank you. let's return now to our main story — which is the growing demands forjustice for more than 700 sub—postmasters who were prosecuted for fraud and theft, based on data from faulty software. they includejess kaur

who was wrongly accused of stealing £11,000 from the post office she ran in walsall. i went through hell. i had my car windows broken on my car. a lot of torment at that time. and throughout the whole deal ordeal, i got very ill. tried to commit suicide, which was quite bad, and then i got sectioned. a waste of 15 years where i could have been working, i could have had a good health, i could have expanded that post office to another post office, which was meant to be a future for my children, which they took

away from me, post office. we'rejoined now by neil hudgell, a lawyer who represents many of the sub—postmasters who were caught up in this, and by liam byrne mp, who is chair of the business and trade select committee next week, which has invited fujitsu to answer questions next week. week, which has invited fujitsu let's week, which has invited fujitsu start with you, nei| you let's start with you, neil, thank you for coming in this morning. you have been dealing with many of these sub—postmasters, what you make of the events of the past week? it’s the events of the past week? it's madness. _ the events of the past week? it�*s madness, really. it's elevated, the drama has elevated things to a whole new platform. the country has woken up new platform. the country has woken up to the hideous scandal that this is all about. , to overwhelming feelings of revulsion at the behaviour of the post office and outpouring of sympathy for these

hideously scarred people. it has obviously galvanised them and given them a renewed energy because they have been fighting this fight for two decades but equally what it has also done has brought out of the woodwork and other seriously damaged people that have lived in the shadows for so long and have had to deal with mental health issues, trauma and all those sorts of things. and it has given them again some courage to come out and start that process to clear their names. so you have had calls over the last few days for people who have never spoken before or raise their hands or heads? ., spoken before or raise their hands or heads? . . ., , spoken before or raise their hands i or heads?_ how or heads? inundated with calls. how man ? or heads? inundated with calls. how many? well — or heads? inundated with calls. how many? well into _ or heads? inundated with calls. how many? well into three _ or heads? inundated with calls. how many? well into three figures, - or heads? inundated with calls. how many? well into three figures, a - many? well into three figures, a number that _ many? well into three figures, a number that rises _ many? well into three figures, a number that rises by _ many? well into three figures, a number that rises by the - many? well into three figures, a number that rises by the day. i many? well into three figures, a number that rises by the day. al number that rises by the day. a disturbing feature in some senses is the fact that a number of these calls are coming from relatives, sons and daughters of sub—postmasters who are no longer with us. they are emotional calls, difficult calls because they are not here to have their names cleared. so

those scars will remain indefinitely. it's a really difficultjourney but it's one that they feel compelled to take on behalf of their loved ones. it’s behalf of their loved ones. it's such an important point, we talk about the 93 who have had their convictions overturned, 700 also waiting for that to happen but there are a whole load more people who are not convicted but were still caught up not convicted but were still caught up and wrongly accused, may be paid back thousands of pounds. brute up and wrongly accused, may be paid back thousands of pounds.— back thousands of pounds. we don't reall know back thousands of pounds. we don't really know the _ back thousands of pounds. we don't really know the size _ back thousands of pounds. we don't really know the size of _ back thousands of pounds. we don't really know the size of the - back thousands of pounds. we don't really know the size of the victim i really know the size of the victim pool in a sense, because we have the convicted, then the non—convicted, those who using loose language were lucky enough not to be put in prison but they lost their homes, lost their minds, what have you. but there are other victims who are not compensated so we have got wives who have miscarried children because of stress, relatives who have killed themselves because they have not been able to cope, children spat on

in school with behavioural issues. the whole scandal, actually cuts across thousands and thousands of people including the victims that are not heard and there is no focus on the. brute are not heard and there is no focus on the. ~ ., ., on the. we will hear from them in their own words _ on the. we will hear from them in their own words here _ on the. we will hear from them in their own words here on - on the. we will hear from them in | their own words here on breakfast this morning, joined by nine sub—postmasters this morning who will be telling their own stories on how this dreadful thing has affected them in their lives. in terms of overturning the convictions, quashing the convictions, really simply, how do you think that is best done? all of the politicians are arguing about the technicalities and the procedures, dead simply for those of us who are not lawyers, how should it happen? it’s those of us who are not lawyers, how should it happen?— should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! _ should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! i _ should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! iwill— should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! i will try. - should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! i will try. as i should it happen? it's not simple. make it simple! i will try. as a i make it simple! i will try. as a la er make it simple! i will try. as a lawyer there _ make it simple! i will try. as a lawyer there is _ make it simple! i will try. as a lawyer there is a _ make it simple! i will try. as a lawyer there is a natural i lawyer there is a natural cautiousness. one option is to wholesale quash the convictions, that feels like a big step. one of the things that some people who have

had their convictions are said to me is, i went on a journey, there was a thorough investigation of my claim, i feel properly exonerated. it might be that people need to go on that journey. another option is to take away from post office the process of reviewing the convictions. there is a process ongoing at the moment where post office are looking at each and every one of those convictions in appropriate circumstances, writing to the person in question to say, it looks like you have got a case that could be appealed, you should go and see lawyers. people are not going to see lawyers. people are not going to see lawyers because they see the letter from the post office and they are petrified to do that. it could be that that process is taken out of the hands of the post office, added to the cps for example, the crown prosecution service. it can take time but resources can be thrown at that and that can happen quickly. another option is the royal prerogative, i have some experience of that with steve grant which was

one of the fishermen rescuers. that doesn't quash the conviction, it is a halfway house, a pardon, you are forgiven but that doesn't quash the conviction. i'm not sure that any solution fits all. so it isn't simple. solution fits all. so it isn't simle. ~ ., ., ., ., solution fits all. so it isn't simle. ., ., ., ., simple. we will have to have a chat now to liam _ simple. we will have to have a chat now to liam byrne, _ simple. we will have to have a chat now to liam byrne, we _ simple. we will have to have a chat now to liam byrne, we are - simple. we will have to have a chat now to liam byrne, we are talking l now to liam byrne, we are talking about the compensation but also accountability is another issue. thank you forjoining us. you are chair of the business and trade select committee and you have invited fujitsu to come and give evidence to you and talk to you next week, what are you going to be putting to fujitsu? aha, week, what are you going to be putting to fujitsu?— week, what are you going to be putting to fujitsu? a number of sub-postmasters _ putting to fujitsu? a number of sub-postmasters as _ putting to fujitsu? a number of sub-postmasters as well i putting to fujitsu? a number of sub-postmasters as well as i putting to fujitsu? a number of i sub-postmasters as well as people sub—postmasters as well as people who have _ sub—postmasters as well as people who have been bringing this case to the public's — who have been bringing this case to the public's attention over the last couple _ the public's attention over the last couple of— the public's attention over the last couple of months, as well as fujitsu _ couple of months, as well as fujitsu. they have lots of questions to answer— fujitsu. they have lots of questions to answer but it basically comes down _ to answer but it basically comes down to— to answer but it basically comes down to one big question, did they put profits— down to one big question, did they put profits before people? these

prosecutions were unfolding over a lon- prosecutions were unfolding over a long period of time. somebody in fujitsu _ long period of time. somebody in fujitsu must have known that things were going — fujitsu must have known that things were going wrong. somebody in fujitsu _ were going wrong. somebody in fujitsu must have raised a red flag somewhere. and so the question then becomes, _ somewhere. and so the question then becomes, did they raise those red flags? _ becomes, did they raise those red flags? he — becomes, did they raise those red flags? he did they tell? and whoever they told. _ flags? he did they tell? and whoever they told, what did they do about it? there — they told, what did they do about it? there is then a set of questions for government because since the landmark— for government because since the landmark cases back in 2019, something like £5 billion worth of public— something like £5 billion worth of public money in contract has been handed _ public money in contract has been handed to — public money in contract has been handed to fujitsu in new business. there _ handed to fujitsu in new business. there are — handed to fujitsu in new business. there are real question is notjust for fujitsu — there are real question is notjust for fujitsu but also questions about whether. _ for fujitsu but also questions about whether, frankly, ministers have been _ whether, frankly, ministers have been rewarding failure. the}r whether, frankly, ministers have been rewarding failure.— been rewarding failure. they are still getting _ been rewarding failure. they are still getting new _ been rewarding failure. they are still getting new contracts. i been rewarding failure. they are still getting new contracts. the | still getting new contracts. the horizon computer system is still in post offices today. this is notjust this government, this goes back over generations of government. do you accept that all politicians of all colours have questions to answer here, have a responsibility? yes.

colours have questions to answer here, have a responsibility? yes, i think the real _ here, have a responsibility? yes, i think the real focus _ here, have a responsibility? yes, i think the real focus right _ here, have a responsibility? yes, i think the real focus right now i here, have a responsibility? yes, i think the real focus right now hasl think the real focus right now has -ot think the real focus right now has got to— think the real focus right now has got to be — think the real focus right now has got to be as you rightly say in this package, — got to be as you rightly say in this package, has got to be on making sure that — package, has got to be on making sure that there is a process that is very speedy— sure that there is a process that is very speedy and very simple for overturning the convictions. in the way there — overturning the convictions. in the way there is— overturning the convictions. in the way there is a second scandal here, there _ way there is a second scandal here, there is— way there is a second scandal here, there is a _ way there is a second scandal here, there is a scandal about the miscarriage ofjustice in the first place _ miscarriage ofjustice in the first place but — miscarriage ofjustice in the first place but there is a second scandal as to _ place but there is a second scandal as to how— place but there is a second scandal as to how long it has taken to overturn— as to how long it has taken to overturn these convictions. the landmark — overturn these convictions. the landmark case was almost three years a-o. landmark case was almost three years ago since _ landmark case was almost three years ago. since then, only 15% of the convictions _ ago. since then, only 15% of the convictions have been overturned. and only— convictions have been overturned. and only 4% have actually secured the full _ and only 4% have actually secured the full and final settlement. the wheels— the full and final settlement. the wheels of— the full and final settlement. the wheels ofjustice are frankly turning _ wheels ofjustice are frankly turning much to slowly. and so we are inviting — turning much to slowly. and so we are inviting ministers next tuesday so we _ are inviting ministers next tuesday so we can— are inviting ministers next tuesday so we can cross—examine them of whatever— so we can cross—examine them of whatever scheme they presented to parliament this week to make sure that that _ parliament this week to make sure that that process is very speedy and it has— that that process is very speedy and it has got— that that process is very speedy and it has got to be very simple. because _ it has got to be very simple. because neil rightly says there are hundreds— because neil rightly says there are hundreds of people who have not come

forward _ hundreds of people who have not come forward because they have been so traumatised by the process, they 'ust traumatised by the process, they just want— traumatised by the process, they just want to turn their backs on it and move — just want to turn their backs on it and move on in their lives. making sure that _ and move on in their lives. making sure that the process is simple, that is— sure that the process is simple, that is key— sure that the process is simple, that is key to giving people the confidence thatjustice that is key to giving people the confidence that justice can that is key to giving people the confidence thatjustice can be done for them _ confidence thatjustice can be done for them i— confidence that 'ustice can be done for them. ~ ., ., ., , .,, for them. i think a lot of people watchin: for them. i think a lot of people watching this _ for them. i think a lot of people watching this morning - for them. i think a lot of people watching this morning and i for them. i think a lot of people watching this morning and a i for them. i think a lot of people watching this morning and a lot| for them. i think a lot of people i watching this morning and a lot of those sub—postmasters will be hearing you and other politicians are saying, why haven't you as politicians put fujitsu on the spot before now? politicians put fu'itsu on the spot before now?— politicians put fu'itsu on the spot before new?— politicians put fu'itsu on the spot before now?— before now? there is a statutory inrui before now? there is a statutory inquiry under — before now? there is a statutory inquiry under way _ before now? there is a statutory inquiry under way at _ before now? there is a statutory inquiry under way at the - before now? there is a statutory. inquiry under way at the moment, before now? there is a statutory i inquiry under way at the moment, a judge _ inquiry under way at the moment, a judge led _ inquiry under way at the moment, a judge led inquiry which is getting to the _ judge led inquiry which is getting to the lessons learned, and that will basically describe where the deals— will basically describe where the deals -- — will basically describe where the deals —— ascribed by the guilt is. it's deals —— ascribed by the guilt is. it's long — deals —— ascribed by the guilt is. it's long overdue for fujitsu to answer— it's long overdue for fujitsu to answer questions about what they knew _ answer questions about what they knew and — answer questions about what they knew and when. when you are talking about _ knew and when. when you are talking about £5 _ knew and when. when you are talking about £5 billion of public contracts being _ about £5 billion of public contracts being handed to fujitsu since the scandal— being handed to fujitsu since the scandal has been known, frankly, that is— scandal has been known, frankly, that is an — scandal has been known, frankly, that is an extraordinary state of

affairs — that is an extraordinary state of affairs. that begs all kinds of questions that ministers need to answer. — questions that ministers need to answer, wouldn't it be prudent for example _ answer, wouldn't it be prudent for example for a moratorium at the very least on _ example for a moratorium at the very least on any— example for a moratorium at the very least on any new business going to fujitsu _ least on any new business going to fujitsu until we know exactly what happened? fujitsu until we know exactly what ha fened? �* ., fujitsu until we know exactly what ha fened? �* . , ., happened? after all this time, do ou think happened? after all this time, do you think that _ happened? after all this time, do you think that your _ happened? after all this time, do you think that your clients i happened? after all this time, do you think that your clients have i happened? after all this time, do i you think that your clients have any faith that this is going to get sorted quickly which is what the dollar to say that they wanted to do the momentum there —— politicians say they want to do, there is the momentum there?— say they want to do, there is the momentum there? there is scepticism in all respects- — momentum there? there is scepticism in all respects. the _ momentum there? there is scepticism in all respects. the statutory _ in all respects. the statutory inquiry is one thing but everything up inquiry is one thing but everything up else is up in the air. but what the last ten days have shown is that there is momentum that needs to turn into closure in 2024, accountability and exoneration for those who need to be exonerated.— to be exonerated. thank you, neil. hen 's to be exonerated. thank you, neil. henry's death _ to be exonerated. thank you, neil. henry's death meant _ to be exonerated. thank you, neil. henry's death meant our _ to be exonerated. thank you, neil. henry's death meant our political l

henry's death meant our political correspondent saying that the prime ministers —— henry, our political correspondent, saying that the prime minister might make a statement in prime minister's questions, which will be covered on bbc news. right now upstairs, nine sub—postmasters are getting ready to come and join us here on the sofa on breakfast and tell us their own stories in their own words. time now to get the news, travel and weather where you are. a very good morning from bbc london, i'm alice salfield. there's been a rise in the number of sexual offences recorded on the tube, according to british transport police figures. the data, obtained by the liberal democrats, shows there were more than 900 sexual offences and more than 3,500 violent incidents in the year from december 2022. tfl says it continues to work closely with the police and night—time industry to get people home safely.

london has been found to be the slowest city in the world to drive around — for the second year in a row. the data, from the sat nav company tomtom, suggests the increase in 20mph speed limits is part of the reason. the mayor's office described the study as misleading, as it only looked at the city centre. nine london schools have been designated attendance hubs by the government, to try to tackle a rise in truancy. the schools, which all have excellent attendance records, will share their expertise with others that are struggling. more than one in five children in england are now classed as persistently absent from school. before the pandemic, it was one in ten. when we go into hospital for treatments or to visit someone, it's natural to feel anxious and stressed. classical piano music. but at the royal london hospital, they've tried to change the mood by becoming a concert venue twice a week. it was the idea of an eminent gynaecologist who devoted his career to this particular trust.

they're not meant to sit and listen. theyjust pass through, they pick up a strand of music as they go through, give a smile, thumbs up. when words fail, music speaks, and we've had plenty of evidence that that's really true. so i think it does make a difference and people have said to us it makes a difference to them individually. let's take a look at how the tubes are running. severe delays on the central. minor delays for thejubilee, metropolitan and victoria lines. and victoria lines. time for the weather with kawser. hello and a very good morning to you. it's another chilly start to the day, but, once again, we're expecting plenty in the way of crisp winter sunshine across the region. although it's still quite breezy out there with that fairly brisk east to northeasterly wind, there'll be some patches of cloud, but plenty in the way of sunshine into the afternoon, too, and temperatures reaching around 4—6 celsius. but add on the strength of that wind and, again, it will feel much colder. this evening and overnight, largely dry conditions,

some patches of cloud, but lots of clear weather. temperatures quite widely dipping to freezing or below — we're looking at overnight lows of —1 to —3 celsius. so certainly a chilly start to thursday and high pressure does stay with us as we look ahead to thursday and friday, too. but we're drawing in some slightly less cold air and more in the way of cloud, as well. so for thursday, it does become cloudy into the afternoon and, by friday, cloudy conditions for all and maybe even the odd spot of drizzle and temperatures up to around 8 celsius, but colder again during the weekend. that's it. head to our website to find out some of the unusual items that have gone missing from museums in london, including a false moustache. see you in half an hour. hello, this is breakfast with sarah campbell and jon kay. last month on breakfast,

we spoke about the rising cost of baby formula. now there are signs that some of those prices may be about to come down, but only slightly. we have the perfect person to investigate because delighted to say back from maternity leave is needed. it is lovely to be back. i have missed the gang. i am missing the baby very much but lovely to be back, bestjob in the world and best baby in the world. everyone thinks their baby is the best but sorry, mine actually is! i am bringing down the breast—feeding and increasing formula. a lot of families noticing prices go up. there's been such concern over the rising price of formula that leading doctors and nurses felt compelled to write to the government, saying the health of non—breastfed and partly breast—fed babies is being put at risk. over the past two years, the cost of formula has jumped by a quarter — way above the overall

rate of inflation. understandably, that's been a major sting for some families. to give you some context — it can now costs up to £89 per month to formula feed a ten—week—old baby. and at the moment, every penny counts for new parents. as colletta smith has been finding out in buxton. anyone using formula milk knows it doesn't come cheap at the moment. the one he has now is about £10.50 for a tub. i mean, i try not to look sometimes because ijust think, i can't even think about the fact that it costs that much. the increase in price has meant some hard decisions for hannah and herfamily. because of how expensive everything's gone and how much everything's going up, i've had to go back to work earlier than planned. you do struggle sometimes to think, "well, i need to spend this £11 on milk. i can't go and buy us something nice for tea" or, you know, you have to sort of balance it

and sacrifice your own stuff to buy something that your baby needs. the price of baby formula has increased dramatically recently right across the board, but the competition and markets authority say that big brands have increased the price by much more than it costs to make it. and that's particularly difficult for parents because there aren't that many options available on the market. and once they've found a product that suits their baby, they're understandably reluctant to switch. this exploits parents, really, it's far too much for something that's so necessary. sometimes it was like 15, £16. and that would last you, what, a week? yeah, yeah, if that. then going on maternity, i your pay is already decreased and then you're expected to pay even more for certain products _ that your baby needs. it's completely unfair. we're quite lucky because we've got a storage unit on top of this, but this is where the smaller items are kept. so we've got... as a result of those price increases, more parents are turning to community baby banks like this one for help. the demand for formula has increased massively over

the last six to 12 months. i'd say it's gone up by about 200%. a tin costs 20 quid every few days for some families. and that might be the difference between putting the electric on or not or doing a food shop. what are parents doing to get round those high prices? there were a couple of mums that said that they've used condensed milk in place of formula. going longer in between feeds. parents can't afford it, the companies that are creating this product do not need to have that massive amount of profit. there is a lot of times where we just have to say no to people because we haven't got it in or we haven't got the money to buy them. if we can't help them, they can't buy it themselves, what's happening to that baby? coletta smith, bbc news, in buxton. you can see the risk of an impact on the baby. the baby formula market is dominated by these two companies.

they account for 85% of all uk sales. now danone has told the bbc they have offered to reduce the price at which they're selling most aptamil products by approximately 7%. that will kick in from monday. nestle haven't said they'll drop prices, but told us their goal is to keep products affordable for parents, and to cut costs where possible. nhs and world health organisation guidance still advocates exclusive breast—feeding, which is partly why retailers aren't allowed to put promotions on baby formula, and can't accept loyalty points as payment either. but the boss of iceland would like to see things change. there's a lot of restrictions around the sale of infant formula, zero to six months. and that is to promote breast—feeding because, of course, breast—feeding is preferable. but many people choose not to or can't. and therefore, it is really important that people have choice and, at the moment, there are a lot

of archaic regulations that prevent us from promoting when we drop the price of the product. so we are not allowed to advertise the fact that we have done that, which is absurd, because in a cost—of—living crisis, i should be able to communicate price drops on such an important product like this to my customers. there will now be pressure on supermarkets to make sure they reflect any supplier price drops at the till. we have asked asda, tesco and sainsbury�*s if they're doing anything to help cushion the costs — but are yet to hear back from them. there are also calls on the government to review healthy start vouchers — currently £8.50 per week, given to low—income families for babies up to the age of one. that value hasn't increased since april 2021. can and should more be done? joining me now is erin simpson, the co—founder of the charity feed which supports all mums navigating feeding their little ones. good morning. navigating feeding

your little one can be stressful however you do it, breast or bottle, and this money will add to anxiety. do you think the law is restricting sales and promotions in particular feel out of date?— feel out of date? absolutely. it is im fortant feel out of date? absolutely. it is important we _ feel out of date? absolutely. it is important we make _ feel out of date? absolutely. it is important we make sure - feel out of date? absolutely. it is important we make sure formula| important we make sure formula companies are not making unfounded marketing claims which unfortunately does happen and it is leading to families using baby formula in the mistaken belief it will keep the baby full longer. we feel in some cases the law has been over interpreted. we have been calling for clarity in the law and we would like to see formula companies held to task but without penalising struggling families. hhs to task but without penalising struggling families.— to task but without penalising struggling families. nhs and who ruidance is struggling families. nhs and who guidance is that _ struggling families. nhs and who guidance is that breast _ struggling families. nhs and who guidance is that breast is - struggling families. nhs and who guidance is that breast is best. if. guidance is that breast is best. if we bring down prices and increase formula promotions, could that

reduce incentives for people to do something really important? to my knowledre something really important? to my knowledge there _ something really important? to my knowledge there is _ something really important? to my knowledge there is no _ something really important? to my knowledge there is no evidence i something really important? in �*ny knowledge there is no evidence that slightly cheaper formula is going to make a woman decide not to breast—feed. we know there is strong evidence the unfounded marketing claims by companies change minds about how they will feed their babies. being able to spend loyalty points to buy formula, to get formula at a cheaper price, there is no evidence that dissuades mums from breast—feeding. 50 no evidence that dissuades mums from breast-feeding— breast-feeding. so people who want to oush for breast-feeding. so people who want to push for breast-feeding _ breast-feeding. so people who want to push for breast-feeding you i breast-feeding. so people who want to push for breast-feeding you thinkj to push for breast—feeding you think would carry on doing that if prices came down. manufacturers point to the cost of raw materials. it is essential for survival for some families. is there a point when the government should step in with a price cap? government should step in with a riceca? , ~' government should step in with a --�*riceca?,, , ~' price cap? absolutely. i think the government _ price cap? absolutely. i think the government needs _ price cap? absolutely. i think the government needs to _ price cap? absolutely. i think the government needs to explore - price cap? absolutely. i think the| government needs to explore this price cap? absolutely. i think the i government needs to explore this at multiple levels. ultimately, it is

found companies have increased prices well beyond the cost and are making huge profits, still, and effectively profiteering from struggling families so we want to see the government focus on families' income and increasing doubt and at the same time putting pressure on formula companies to make this essential product affordable for people who need it. the government said they are doing all they can to support families in need with the 8.50 healthy start vouchers and they would say this is up vouchers and they would say this is up to the market, there is not much more we can do. up to the market, there is not much more we can de— up to the market, there is not much more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that — more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that. there _ more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that. there is _ more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that. there is more - more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that. there is more that - more we can do. unfortunately, i do not buy that. there is more that can i not buy that. there is more that can be done. we can increase the value of healthy start as has been done in scotland. we have the scottish child payment of £25 a week so the scottish government has shown more can be done to increase money going into families' pockets and we could

widen eligibility so more families can access this benefit and look at how they are supported. i am sorry, more can be done.— how they are supported. i am sorry, more can be done. thank you. i know there will be — more can be done. thank you. i know there will be a _ more can be done. thank you. i know there will be a lot _ more can be done. thank you. i know there will be a lot of _ more can be done. thank you. i know there will be a lot of families - more can be done. thank you. i know there will be a lot of families at - there will be a lot of families at home watching this morning and thinking about hidden costs or formula. if you are going back to nursery and have to leave it there, it is a massive added cost. people watching will say breast—feeding is free, why not do that? but for some people, it is not an option. and not everyone chooses that. great to have you back as part of the breakfast family. a lot of you getting in touch about breast milk prices and more getting in touch on the post office scandal. we will be reading some of your comments to sub—postmasters who will

join us in 15 minutes. eight sub—postmasters and the son of a sub—postmaster. so many issues to cover with them and they have a lot to say. but before that, the sport. good morning. all that money chelsea hand, all that promise and expectation and it is not working. they have only spent a billion. maybe if they spent a little bit more! they have lost as many they have won and are trying to get better and get competitive again with the big sides but in terms of the league cup, the best chance of a trophy this season, they have lost 1-0 at trophy this season, they have lost 1—0 at middlesbrough and credit to middlesbrough because the team from 2004 that went all the way, the only major trophy they have one. and they have a foot in the final but they have a foot in the final but they have a foot in the final but they have a second leg to come. it is a slender lead they will take to stamford bridge. after the 1—0 win

at the riverside. patrick gearey was watching. commentator: hayden hackney! they're halfway there. only one goal and only one leg, but look what it meant. for hayden hackney, for middlesbrough, this was some statement. teesside pride — you could see it and feel it before kick—off, even if, initially, boro couldn't channel it. cole palmer might have punished them — should have punished them. because little more than five minutes later, the championship side bypassed chelsea and got to hackney. hayden isjust 21, born down the road in redcar — one of their own. if that was the glory, now they'd need guts and luck. another chance for palmer, another life for boro. chelsea have spent more than £1 billion on players, but their purchases have come with no guarantee. they still have the second leg, they still have time, but do they command patience? boro know they have a long way to go, but they travel with the comfort that, on the other side of chelsea, is wembley. patrick gearey, bbc news.

so middlesbrough have half thejob done, the second leg later this month. tonight, the second semifinal sees fulham travel to liverpool — who won this tropy a couple of years ago. they're missing several players through injury and international duty, but their assistant manager says they have a real hunger to make the final. when we are young you want to play in the most iconic stadiums in the world and wembley is one of them. there is so much history and so many memories we already made there. so you want to go there. i think the team has this hunger. it's the closest final we can reach. we have to respect fulham. we need to be spot on in all departments, that's for sure. former champions mark allen, john higgins and mark selby all play later at the masters snooker. defending championjudd trump is through to the quarter—finals but was taken to a final—frame decider by kyren wilson.

that went the distance too with trump needing the final black. the two—time winner will now face ali carter in the last eight on friday. but former champion neil robertson has been knocked out. by barry hawkins, who beat the australian 6—3. he'll face ronnie o'sullivan next. mark allen againstjohn higgins is at one o'clock and mark selby against robert milkins is from seven o'clock, the evening session and uninterrupted coverage on the bbc iplayer. thank you. here's matt with a look at the weather. what a lovely picture. unfortunately it is from our stock of sunrise pictures but it will be “p of sunrise pictures but it will be up for just of sunrise pictures but it will be up forjust about of sunrise pictures but it will be up for just about all of sunrise pictures but it will be up forjust about all in the next hour but as it does temperatures are dropping and coldest at the moment in scotland, —9 in one spot but many spots below freezing. mildest is

lerwick and kirkwall. that is because of a change in wind direction bringing less cold air from the north. high pressure bringing atlantic air. what you are seeing is more cloud across the country. eastern scotland, northern england, eastern northern ireland more cloudy with the chance of rain and sleet showers. south of that, early cloud in the far south—west. showers will clear. lots of sunshine for many and staying sunny in the west of scotland and west of northern ireland. wind to the north of the country pretty light. a stiff breeze across some southern areas and it is here the added wind chill is in place. temperatures 3—4 but feeling colder. it still feels cold and another cold night tonight but with more cloud in the midlands and wales, temperatures will not drop as much here. the blue colour showing

where frost is expected. southern parts of england and wales in far west scotland. we might see temperatures lower than this in some spots. tomorrow, a lot of sunshine in southern areas. clouding from the north through the day. sunshine in the west of scotland. overall, more cloud tomorrow and thursday and a keen breeze down the north sea coast and the chance of showers. temperatures continue to lift a little but do not get used to it. as we go into the weekend and next week, it will get colder. thank you. the subject of assisted dying was raised recently by the broadcasting legend dame esther rantzen — who said she's considering it for herself — and it's also being explored in a new channel 11 drama. true love is about group

of pensioners who are reunited at yet another friend's funeral, and they make a drunken pact. let's take a look. just one minute. could it be done? could we not help each other when the time comes — make a more elegant exit? you're not still on this, are you? don't be so morbid. you'd need a really good pre—med. get properly mellow. david could prescribe it. i wrote my last prescription a decade ago. but why not, really? because you'd never get away with it, that's why not. old person dies — not. exactly headline news. people get away with it every day. i could take you now to the houses of people who got away with it. oh, that was then. i mean, with respect, the forensics these days, it's moved on since your day. oh, yes. the beautiful pathologist deduces |the whole thing from a molecule. j you watch too much tv. we do watch a lot of television.

well, you do, marion. speak for yourself. detectives, true crimes. anything with a psychopath. well, mobile phones, cctv. so do it where there's no cctv. suejohnston, who plays marion in the series, joins us now. good morning. good morning. true love, tell good morning. good morning. true love. tell us _ good morning. good morning. true love, tell us about _ good morning. good morning. true love, tell us about it. _ good morning. good morning. true love, tell us about it. true - good morning. good morning. true love, tell us about it. true love, i love, tell us about it. true love, right. the lead character, but do not let this put you off, are all in their 70s. . not let this put you off, are all in their 705-— not let this put you off, are all in their 70s. ., , ., ., ., their 70s. that is one of the great thins their 70s. that is one of the great things about _ their 70s. that is one of the great things about it. _ their 70s. that is one of the great things about it. obviously, - their 70s. that is one of the great things about it. obviously, i- their 70s. that is one of the great j things about it. obviously, i loved that about it. — things about it. obviously, i loved that about it. usually, _ things about it. obviously, i loved that about it. usually, you - things about it. obviously, i loved that about it. usually, you play i things about it. obviously, i loved that about it. usually, you play an old crank in the corner, dying in a bed, oran old crank in the corner, dying in a bed, or an old granny. but this was about people living their lives and

it begins at a friend's funeral. maybe you are too young. i have said this and friends have said it, when you see somebody you love die horribly, you say don't let that happen to me, put a pillow over my face, get me some pills. it is anything you say without thought, really. and they get very drunk at this wake, very drunk. and they make a pact because the brother, my brother played by carljohnson, he says we have to promise that if we want it, we will help each other. and they mention true love and sing true love, never thinking it will happen, and it does. and that is how it begins. then it twists and turns. it ain't what you think it is. in

those twists and turns revisit the debate so many people are having at the moment. we were talking about esther rantzen but families and friends are talking about it. has it made you question what you think? absolutely. before christmas, a dear friend died. i was at his bedside. and we talked about, not him, because he was not conscious, but the other friends who were there. we said... it put me in a position. if he had woken up and said put a pillow on my face, would i have done it? but it also makes you think, would i want my family to see me like that and have to spend time at the bedside, when you have gone, really? you are just being kept alive by medicine. i don't know. i cannot answer the question, in all

truth, i cannot answer the question as to whether i would have the courage to do it if someone asked me, and, funnily enough, coronation street, they are dealing with the same thing. but this doesn'tjust go there. it raises the question, but there. it raises the question, but there are other things going on in there are other things going on in the drama, because it is a drama. it the drama, because it is a drama. it is another example. we are talking about the post office drama but amazing this as well, how drama can get a conversation going. absolutely. it always has been. i think of hillsborough and jimmy mcgovern's hillsborough, bringing that to the screen helped those people. not fundamentally, but certainly brought it to people's notice. so i have always... there has always been theatre productions

and television that will. although the post office one, is so huge, how it has been ignored, it is rather shaming it took a drama to bring this out, i think. it is wheels within wheels. it gets bigger and bigger. it’s within wheels. it gets bigger and bitter. �*, ._ bigger. it's extraordinary. there has been coverage _ bigger. it's extraordinary. there has been coverage in _ bigger. it's extraordinary. there has been coverage in the - bigger. it's extraordinary. there l has been coverage in the papers, questions about drama is expensive to produce for television. saying there will not necessarily be money in the future to make these dramas, however much impact they have. what do you think? are they safe now because of may be the impact of mr bates and the post office? i because of may be the impact of mr bates and the post office?- bates and the post office? i would ho -e there bates and the post office? i would hope there would _ bates and the post office? i would hope there would always _ bates and the post office? i would hope there would always be - bates and the post office? i would hope there would always be room | bates and the post office? i would i hope there would always be room for drama. my goodness. obviously, i have a vested interest!— drama. my goodness. obviously, i have a vested interest! please keep makint have a vested interest! please keep making them- _ have a vested interest! please keep making them. do _ have a vested interest! please keep making them. do you _ have a vested interest! please keep making them. do you feel - have a vested interest! please keep i making them. do you feel empowered as an actor by the power of drama? ! as an actor by the power of drama? i have always felt that power. when i

was young, in theatre, i did theatre in education, and we used to talk about... and agitprop theatre, and deal with issues. and so i have always loved that issue led, something that meant something, that was not airy fairy but had a meaning and a question. i think there has always been part of my life. it is great to watch, as well. those performances in the post office were fantastic. so truthful. you could tell they were invested in that material. and so i would hope... there has been a lot of cutbacks in drama. but the money is a big question for all of us who work in it, but i would hope that drama will

always find its way. it should be supported on television. i am burbling now.— supported on television. i am burblint now. ., ~ ., ., burbling now. please talk to me. you are well known _ burbling now. please talk to me. you are well known for _ burbling now. please talk to me. you are well known for being _ burbling now. please talk to me. you are well known for being a _ are well known for being a campaigner and outspoken on political issues. have things changed now? there is a sense that perhaps people do not identify with politicians and politics as much now but something like this drama can put things forward in a way people can really understand. it put things forward in a way people can really understand.— put things forward in a way people can really understand. it has made --eole can really understand. it has made people angry- _ can really understand. it has made people angry- that _ can really understand. it has made people angry. that is _ can really understand. it has made people angry. that is probably - can really understand. it has made people angry. that is probably a i people angry. that is probably a shock to the powers that be. maybe we should make them angry. there are more subjects i would like people to write about to make people angry about. people running for cover. i think people will see this through. it is not going... they cannot hide it away. people are angry about

this. it affected so many people in a terrible way. heartbreaking. so don't run for cover. i was away at the time sort of language we do not want to hear. we want answers. i am not alone that. want to hear. we want answers. i am not alone that-— not alone that. absolutely right, certainly not _ not alone that. absolutely right, certainly not alone. _ not alone that. absolutely right, certainly not alone. all- not alone that. absolutely right, certainly not alone. all the - certainly not alone. all the feedback we have had, everything we have seen, it shows it is important to people. i should say thank you for coming in. you can watch the third episode of true love on channel it at nine o'clock tonight. and you can catch the first two on the channel's streaming service. thank you very much. drama is everywhere. you're watching breakfast. in a couple of minutes, we're going to be exploring in some detail the human cost of the post office drama. in real life, real stories. we'll be joined on the sofa by eight sub—postmasters, and the son of one,

who had their personal and professional lives torn apart by wrongful accusations of fraud and theft, caused by faulty software. you can see them saying hello to each other. in a meeting room upstairs. they are now making their way downstairs to the studio. and we will hear how this has affected them. and crucially what they want to happen next. we have heard from politicians and experts and lawyers but what they want happen next. time nto get the news, travel and weather where you are. good morning, i'm alice salfield. there's been a rise in the number of sexual offences recorded on the tube, according to british transport police figures. the data, obtained by the liberal democrats, shows there were more than 900 sexual offences and more than 3,500 violent incidents in the year from december 2022. tfl says it continues to work closely with the police and night—time industry

to get people home safely. london has been found to be the slowest city in the world to drive around for the second year in a row. the data, from the sat nav company tomtom, suggests the increase in 20 mile per hour speed limits is part of the reason. the mayor's office described the study as "misleading" because it only looked at the city centre. nine london schools have been designated "attendance hubs" by the government, to try to tackle a rise in truancy. the schools, which all have excellent attendance records, will share their expertise with others that are struggling. more than one in five children in england are now classed as persistently absent. now the tubes. and there are severe delays on the central with minor delays for thejubilee and victoria lines at the moment. today's weather now, dry with some long spells of wintry sunshine, though a few clouds around. and it'll be windy.

staying chilly with a top temperature of six degrees celsius. that's all from me but there's plenty more on our website. see you soon.

good morning and welcome to a special programme from bbc breakfast. for the next hour our focus is on the post office computer scandal, we'll hear the stories of these nine victims of the largest miscarriage ofjustice in british history. they are going to tell us what happened to them in their own words. some of them have never spoken publicly before. more than two decades on, it's taken a tv drama to catapult

the scandal and campaign forjustice into the limelight. there were more than 700 prosecutions but only 93 people have had their convictions overturned. rishi sunak is expected to make a statement on the scandal at prime minister's questions in parliament today. former post office boss paula vennells hands back her cbe. now she's facing pressure to return more than £2 million of bonuses. we'll be putting questions to the post office minister kevin hollinrake who's given "full commitment" to getting justice. so what's his plan? most importantly, we'll ask the victims of the scandal, what more they want to see done. we've brought together these nine victims for the first time on live

tv to hear about the impact this scandal has had on their lives and what they think should happen next. we'll look at the issues of justice, of wrongful convictions, of compensation and accountability. some of it is technical and complicated but some of it is just human. complicated but some of it is 'ust human. �* . , , ., complicated but some of it is 'ust human. �* , ., ., complicated but some of it is 'ust human. ., ., ., human. and it has been going on for decades. let's remind ourselves why you are all standing here together after more than two decades. tim muffett reports. this is a story of injustice and ruined lives. i was destroyed. of wrongful imprisonment, bankruptcy... it wasjust basically fighting for survival. of broken marriages and in some cases, suicide. i just struggle with it every day. my mental health is not that good. and it began with faulty software on a computer system called horizon,

introduced by the post office in 1999. developed by the japanese company fujitsu, horizon was brought in to help with accounting and stocktaking. but sub—postmasters and mistresses complained about bugs in the system, which made it look like money had gone missing when it hadn't. some tried to plug the gaps with their own money. although concerns about the computer system were published in 2009, more than 700 post office branch managers were convicted of false accounting, theft and fraud between 1999 and 2015. in 2003, alan bates lost his contract as a subpostmaster in north wales when he refused to accept liability for alleged losses at his branch. he went on to set up thejustice for subpostmasters alliance. it's been the best or the worst unpaid job i've ever had.

i mean, you just carry on with it day after day. and the more stories you hear from the victims, you know, you can't let it go, you've got to carry on with it. daylight robbery. tobyjones portrays alan in the itv drama that has shone new light on the scandal. as the scripts came through, it was clear that this incredible injustice had been done whereby the computers had said that the postmaster had been defrauding them of money, which... a total computer glitch and people were being convicted and people's lives have been completely ruined. in 2006, sub—postmaster lee castleton fought a civil case against the post office after it falsely accused him of stealing £35,000 from his branch in bridlington in east yorkshire. alan, do you trust them? he lost the case, was ordered to pay

costs and was declared bankrupt. he is portrayed in the itv drama by actor will mellor. i don't know what price you can put on somebody losing their husband or losing your memories of their child because you've got to have treatment for depression or losing your daughters or your kids getting spat at in the street. "your dad's a thief," you know? what price do you put on all that? it's... so, yeah, i'm stillangry, but i'm so glad i'm a part of this drama that has made it [and with people and now the nation, the country are all behind these people. in 2019, the post office admitted there had been an it fault and agreed to settle with hundreds of claimants. in september last year, the government said every sub—postmaster wrongly convicted would be offered £600,000 in compensation. but so far, only 93 convictions have been overturned and only 30 people have agreed full and final financial settlements.

paula vennells ran the post office between 2012 and 2019. she said yesterday that following mounting pressure, she would be handing back her cbe with immediate effect. tim muffett with that report. it has been going on for a long time. we're just ten days into 2024 with a definite change in the air, that maybe now finally people are taking notice. we want to hear your stories. we want to try to understand the impact that the horizon computer scandal has had on your lives, and is still having. we'll talk to you all in detail but first we'll start with tom, tell us your story. hello. i've got to say, i've been

looking — hello. i've got to say, i've been looking forward to this day. i'm tom hedges. i ran my post office in hogsthorpe, eight miles outside skegness, for 16 years. i was dismissed in 2009 and convicted _ i was dismissed in 2009 and convicted in court in 2010. i had to wait until— convicted in court in 2010. i had to wait until 2021 when my conviction was overturned. and frankly, it wrecked — was overturned. and frankly, it wrecked my life, my family's life, and everybody i know's life. it was the most — and everybody i know's life. it was the most horrendous thing i have ever been— the most horrendous thing i have ever been through. i was very lucky in one _ ever been through. i was very lucky in one way, — ever been through. i was very lucky in one way, i— ever been through. i was very lucky in one way, i didn't go bankrupt like a _ in one way, ididn't go bankrupt like a lot— in one way, ididn't go bankrupt like a lot of— in one way, i didn't go bankrupt like a lot of the other people. and ijust— like a lot of the other people. and ijust feel— like a lot of the other people. and ijust feel very like a lot of the other people. and i just feel very privileged like a lot of the other people. and ijust feel very privileged to sit here _ ijust feel very privileged to sit here this — ijust feel very privileged to sit here this morning and addressed the

nation _ here this morning and addressed the nation because of the wonderful tv show— nation because of the wonderful tv show that— nation because of the wonderful tv show that itv have produced. it seems — show that itv have produced. it seems a — show that itv have produced. it seems a weird thing to say on the bbc, _ seems a weird thing to say on the bbc, but — seems a weird thing to say on the bbc, but there we go! i do feel that that story— bbc, but there we go! i do feel that that story has dragged us right onto the very— that story has dragged us right onto the very top of the media agenda. and i'm _ the very top of the media agenda. and i'm very, very pleased that that's— and i'm very, very pleased that that's the — and i'm very, very pleased that that's the case.— and i'm very, very pleased that that's the case. hello, my name is maria, that's the case. hello, my name is maria. i'm — that's the case. hello, my name is maria, i'm from _ that's the case. hello, my name is maria, i'm from huddersfield. - that's the case. hello, my name isj maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the _ maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the first— maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the first time _ maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the first time i've _ maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the first time i've ever— maria, i'm from huddersfield. this is the first time i've ever felt - is the first time i've ever felt strong — is the first time i've ever felt strong enough _ is the first time i've ever felt strong enough to _ is the first time i've ever felt strong enough to speak - is the first time i've ever felt strong enough to speak to l is the first time i've ever felt - strong enough to speak to anyone about— strong enough to speak to anyone about what — strong enough to speak to anyone about what happened. _ strong enough to speak to anyone about what happened. they - strong enough to speak to anyone - about what happened. they terminated my contract _ about what happened. they terminated my contract and — about what happened. they terminated my contract and i— about what happened. they terminated my contract and i had _ about what happened. they terminated my contract and i had to _ about what happened. they terminated my contract and i had to pay _ about what happened. they terminated my contract and i had to pay back- my contract and i had to pay back more _ my contract and i had to pay back more than — my contract and i had to pay back more than £30,000. _ my contract and i had to pay back more than £30,000.— my contract and i had to pay back more than £30,000. my more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, — more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, i _ more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, i ran _ more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, i ran a _ more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, i ran a post _ more than £30,000. 30,000, yes. my name is alison, i ran a post office - name is alison, i ran a post office in west yorkshire until i was suspended in 2010 over a shortfall of nearly £15,000. i admitted to a false accounting charge but it was

overturned three years ago. that's it. ~ , ., ., , it. we will give you time, as the programme _ it. we will give you time, as the programme goes _ it. we will give you time, as the programme goes on. _ it. we will give you time, as the programme goes on. my - it. we will give you time, as the programme goes on. my name. it. we will give you time, as the | programme goes on. my name is muhammad, _ programme goes on. my name is muhammad, l _ programme goes on. my name is muhammad, i worked _ programme goes on. my name is muhammad, i worked for - programme goes on. my name is muhammad, i worked for the - programme goes on. my name is| muhammad, i worked for the post programme goes on. my name is - muhammad, i worked for the post of his 427 _ muhammad, i worked for the post of his 427 years, and then i convicted of. his 427 years, and then i convicted of counting~ — his 427 years, and then i convicted of. counting. —— iworked forthe post— of. counting. —— iworked forthe post office— of. counting. —— iworked forthe post office the 27 years. i was convicted _ post office the 27 years. i was convicted of. counting. i had to wear— convicted of. counting. i had to wear a — convicted of. counting. i had to wear a tag _ convicted of. counting. i had to wear a tag and i have carried the shame _ wear a tag and i have carried the shame ever— wear a tag and i have carried the shame ever since, i refuse to carry it any— shame ever since, i refuse to carry it any longer~ _ shame ever since, i refuse to carry it any longer. my shame ever since, i refuse to carry it any longer-— it any longer. my name is janet, i worked for _ it any longer. my name is janet, i worked for the _ it any longer. my name is janet, i worked for the post _ it any longer. my name is janet, i worked for the post office - it any longer. my name is janet, i worked for the post office from i it any longer. my name is janet, i i worked for the post office from 1994 until i— worked for the post office from 1994 until i was— worked for the post office from 1994 until i was suspended _ worked for the post office from 1994 until i was suspended in _ worked for the post office from 1994 until i was suspended in 2006 - worked for the post office from 1994 until i was suspended in 2006 for. worked for the post office from 1994 until i was suspended in 2006 for a i until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall— until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of — until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of £59,000. _ until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of £59,000. |— until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of £59,000. i was - until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of £59,000. i was given i until i was suspended in 2006 for a shortfall of £59,000. i was given a| shortfall of £59,000. i was given a nine-month — shortfall of £59,000. i was given a nine—month custodial— shortfall of £59,000. i was given a nine—month custodial sentence - shortfall of £59,000. i was given a| nine—month custodial sentence and served _ nine—month custodial sentence and served three — nine—month custodial sentence and served three months _ nine—month custodial sentence and served three months in _ nine—month custodial sentence and served three months in prison- nine—month custodial sentence and served three months in prison and| served three months in prison and the rest _ served three months in prison and the rest on — served three months in prison and the rest on home _ served three months in prison and the rest on home curfew. - served three months in prison and the rest on home curfew. it - served three months in prison and the rest on home curfew. it has i the rest on home curfew. it has affected — the rest on home curfew. it has affected everything _ the rest on home curfew. it has affected everything of- the rest on home curfew. it has affected everything of my i the rest on home curfew. it has affected everything of my life i the rest on home curfew. it has i affected everything of my life going forward _ affected everything of my life going forward for — affected everything of my life going forward for the _ affected everything of my life going forward for the past _ affected everything of my life going forward for the past 16 _ affected everything of my life going

forward for the past 16 years. i affected everything of my life going forward for the past 16 years. my. forward for the past 16 years. my name is forward for the past 16 years. name is scott, i ran forward for the past 16 years. ii- name is scott, i ran alderley forward for the past 16 years.- name is scott, i ran alderley edge post office for four years in 2005. i was suspended in 2009, and convicted in 2010, i couldn't get a job for three and a half years after that, i couldn't afford to pay for my daughter's school uniform, i suffered awful stigma and embarrassment and financial distress ever since. and i'm glad that things have come to a head and we are able to speak about it now. mr; have come to a head and we are able to speak about it now.— to speak about it now. my name is varchas patel, _ to speak about it now. my name is varchas patel, i _ to speak about it now. my name is varchas patel, i am _ to speak about it now. my name is varchas patel, i am here - to speak about it now. my name is varchas patel, i am here on i to speak about it now. my name isj varchas patel, i am here on behalf of nry— varchas patel, i am here on behalf of my father from oxford, he was wrongfully— of my father from oxford, he was wrongfully prosecuted by post office limited _ wrongfully prosecuted by post office limited in 2011 and his health is completely shattered. it's only going — completely shattered. it's only going to — completely shattered. it's only going to get worse, and he has not yet received compensation. my name is tim, i yet received compensation. my name is tim. i ran — yet received compensation. my name is tim. i ran a — yet received compensation. my name is tim, i ran a post _ yet received compensation. my name

is tim, i ran a post office _ yet received compensation. my name is tim, i ran a post office in - is tim, i ran a post office in pembrokeshire _ is tim, i ran a post office in pembrokeshire in _ is tim, i ran a post office in pembrokeshire in 2005- is tim, i ran a post office in| pembrokeshire in 2005 until shortfall— pembrokeshire in 2005 until shortfall was _ pembrokeshire in 2005 until shortfall was found - pembrokeshire in 2005 until shortfall was found in - pembrokeshire in 2005 until shortfall was found in 2009' pembrokeshire in 2005 until i shortfall was found in 2009 which pembrokeshire in 2005 until - shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced — shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to — shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to pay— shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to pay back, _ shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to pay back, 22 - shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to pay back, 22 and i shortfall was found in 2009 which i was forced to pay back, 22 and a i was forced to pay back, 22 and a half thousand _ was forced to pay back, 22 and a half thousand pounds. _ was forced to pay back, 22 and a half thousand pounds. i- was forced to pay back, 22 and a half thousand pounds. i was i was forced to pay back, 22 and a | half thousand pounds. i was then prosecuted — half thousand pounds. i was then prosecuted for— half thousand pounds. i was then prosecuted for false _ half thousand pounds. i was then prosecuted for false accounting i prosecuted for false accounting until— prosecuted for false accounting until my— prosecuted for false accounting until my conviction _ prosecuted for false accounting until my conviction was - prosecuted for false accounting i until my conviction was quashed in 200i _ until my conviction was quashed in 200i my— until my conviction was quashed in 200i my life — until my conviction was quashed in 2001. my life was _ until my conviction was quashed in 2001. my life was left _ until my conviction was quashed in 2001. my life was left in _ until my conviction was quashed in 2001. my life was left in tatters i 2001. my life was left in tatters and nry— 2001. my life was left in tatters and my customers _ 2001. my life was left in tatters and my customers and - 2001. my life was left in tattersj and my customers and villagers thought— and my customers and villagers thought i— and my customers and villagers thought i was— and my customers and villagers thought i was a _ and my customers and villagers thought i was a fraud. - and my customers and villagers thought i was a fraud. mgr- and my customers and villagers thought i was a fraud. my name is sall , i thought i was a fraud. my name is sally. i ran _ thought i was a fraud. my name is sally. i ran a _ thought i was a fraud. my name is sally, i ran a small— thought i was a fraud. my name is sally, i ran a small rural— thought i was a fraud. my name is sally, i ran a small rural post i sally, i ran a small rural post office in beckford for nearly 20 years. i'm fortunate that i wasn't convicted, i had to use my own money to pay for all the shortfalls in the corrupt horizon system. and ijoined the 555 to see if i could help get justice. we need to have the money that were paid to post office put back to the postmasters.- that were paid to post office put back to the postmasters. thank you all so much — back to the postmasters. thank you all so much clutter _ back to the postmasters. thank you all so much clutter introducing i all so much clutter introducing

yourselves. ——just all so much clutter introducing yourselves. —— just for introducing yourselves. —— just for introducing yourselves. i know how hard it is for people who have never done anything like this before. it's immensely powerful for us sitting here and you at home i'm sure to hear that. i'm reminded that you are 1% of all of those who are wrongly accused, hundreds of people watching this morning you have been through the same as you and some of them even worse. maria, you have never spoken before, what is it like now to have the country listening, the politicians listening? it’s the country listening, the politicians listening? it's been a lont time politicians listening? it's been a long time coming. _ politicians listening? it's been a long time coming. we - politicians listening? it's been a long time coming. we have i politicians listening? it's been a i long time coming. we have fought for a long time to get people to actually listen to us. and i'm really happy now that the government say that they are listening and we just want answers off the government to find out, when are they going to pay what is rightfully back? what the post office took from us. latte the post office took from us. we willt to

the post office took from us. we will try to get some answers in the next few minutes. can we ask that question more broadly to all of you, after all this time show of hands, do you finally feel that the communities that you are in, that the public, that those people now have an understanding of what you have an understanding of what you have been through, show of hands? that is everybody. second question. those who are in charge, the politicians in charge, the post office, do you feel that they are still listening, that they are listening and something is going to happen? hands up on that one. aha, bit happen? hands up on that one. a bit wa on happen? hands up on that one. a bit wavy on that — happen? hands up on that one. a bit wavy on that one. _ happen? hands up on that one. a bit wavy on that one. you _ happen? hands up on that one. a bit wavy on that one. you are _ happen? hands up on that one. a bit wavy on that one. you are halfway i wavy on that one. you are halfway there and at _ wavy on that one. you are halfway there and at least _ wavy on that one. you are halfway there and at least the _ wavy on that one. you are halfwayj there and at least the community, because presumably you lived in these communities and people didn't know what was going on, theyjust saw the sign up seeing the shop was shut. , , ,., , shut. they 'ust saw the reports in the papers— shut. theyjust saw the reports in

the papers and — shut. theyjust saw the reports in the papers and people _ shut. theyjust saw the reports in the papers and people being i the papers and people being prosecuted so you are just labelled as a thief anyway. the government have been aware of this for years, they have always been aware of it and they have done nothing, just sat back. the height of social media has brought the story forward, the drama has given everyone in understanding but social media has pushed it forward, i think. but social media has pushed it forward, ithink.— but social media has pushed it forward, ithink. forward, i think. janet, the impact on health. — forward, i think. janet, the impact on health. on _ forward, i think. janet, the impact on health, on mental— forward, i think. janet, the impact on health, on mental health, i forward, i think. janet, the impact on health, on mental health, but. on health, on mental health, but also physical health, just take us through how it has impacted you. well, i mean, i cannot ever get a job _ well, i mean, i cannot ever get a job well, — well, i mean, i cannot ever get a job well, i— well, i mean, i cannot ever get a job. well, i suppose i could but i cannot— job. well, i suppose i could but i cannot work physically because i have _ cannot work physically because i have quite a lot of mobility issues, dexterity— have quite a lot of mobility issues, dexterity issues. but there are also people _ dexterity issues. but there are also people who are still out there that need _ people who are still out there that need to— people who are still out there that need to come forward. my thing today isjust— need to come forward. my thing today isjust to _ need to come forward. my thing today isjust to say, need to come forward. my thing today is just to say, if you have need to come forward. my thing today isjust to say, if you have been affected — isjust to say, if you have been affected by this, and you have got a story. _ affected by this, and you have got a story, and _ affected by this, and you have got a story, and you need help, come forward, — story, and you need help, come forward, there are a lot of people

now that — forward, there are a lot of people now that are prepared to help because — now that are prepared to help because everybody now understands what we _ because everybody now understands what we have been through. he went to rison. what we have been through. he went to prison- i— what we have been through. he went to prison- i did. _ what we have been through. he went to prison. i did, yeah. _ what we have been through. he went to prison. i did, yeah. what - what we have been through. he went to prison. i did, yeah. what was i to prison. i did, yeah. what was that like? _ to prison. i did, yeah. what was that like? it's _ to prison. i did, yeah. what was that like? it's horrendous, i to prison. i did, yeah. what was that like? it's horrendous, you i to prison. i did, yeah. what was i that like? it's horrendous, youjust that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust don't that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust dont want — that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust dont want to fl that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust don't want to ever i that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust don't want to ever go i that like? it's horrendous, you 'ust don't want to ever go through i that like? it's horrendous, youjust don't want to ever go through it. itj don't want to ever go through it. it was hard _ don't want to ever go through it. it was hard as— don't want to ever go through it. it was hard as well because i had two teenagem — was hard as well because i had two teenage- - -— teenage... sorry. don't worry, you can compose — teenage... sorry. don't worry, you can compose yourself, _ teenage... sorry. don't worry, you can compose yourself, we - teenage... sorry. don't worry, you can compose yourself, we will i teenage... sorry. don't worry, you| can compose yourself, we will take our time. can compose yourself, we will take ourtime. mohammed, iwas can compose yourself, we will take our time. mohammed, i was struck by the fact that you said you carried this sense of shame for years, you couldn't look people in the eye. well, yes, i had quite a full social life, people came to my house regularly on a weekly basis for various gatherings. and when this happened, i had to cancel all of those engagements. i was a total recluse. the only people that i met regularly where my family, my

immediate family. my children and my wife. even my parents didn't know about it. my siblings didn't. it was, although i knew i hadn't done it, it wasjust was, although i knew i hadn't done it, it was just the stigma attached, that you had to explain, if anybody asked, you had to explain what had happened. and ijust couldn't explain that something had happened which was totally out of my control. but i had to justify it or defend it. my shortfall was £12,000, which i paid out of my savings, what little i had, and i borrowed money, so that i wouldn't go to prison. if i hadn't paid that money up front, i would have ended up going to prison. but you had done nothing wrong. well, i knew that. fit]!!! but you had done nothing wrong. well, i knew that.—

well, i knew that. all of us will tell ou well, i knew that. all of us will tell you the _ well, i knew that. all of us will tell you the same. _ well, i knew that. all of us will tell you the same. we - well, i knew that. all of us will tell you the same. we were i well, i knew that. all of us will tell you the same. we were all| tell you the same. we were all forced — tell you the same. we were all forced to— tell you the same. we were all forced to pay money back. i mean, over— forced to pay money back. i mean, over the _ forced to pay money back. i mean, over the years, i forced to pay money back. i mean, overthe years, i had forced to pay money back. i mean, over the years, i had them about £60,000 — over the years, i had them about £60,000. 12 over the years, i had them about £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long eriod. £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period- they— £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period. they take _ £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period. they take it _ £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period. they take it out _ £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period. they take it out of _ £60,000. 60? 60,000, overa long period. they take it out of your i period. they take it out of your sala . period. they take it out of your salary- if _ period. they take it out of your salary- if you — period. they take it out of your salary. if you had _ period. they take it out of your salary. if you had a _ period. they take it out of your salary. if you had a shortfall, i period. they take it out of your i salary. if you had a shortfall, and you contested _ salary. if you had a shortfall, and you contested it _ salary. if you had a shortfall, and you contested it with _ salary. if you had a shortfall, and you contested it with the - salary. if you had a shortfall, and you contested it with the help i you contested it with the help desk or whatever, — you contested it with the help desk or whatever, for— you contested it with the help desk or whatever, for example - you contested it with the help desk or whatever, for example if- you contested it with the help desk or whatever, for example if you i or whatever, for example if you contested — or whatever, for example if you contested it— or whatever, for example if you contested it in— or whatever, for example if you contested it in the _ or whatever, for example if you contested it in the january, i or whatever, for example if you . contested it in the january, saying, i haver”— contested it in the january, saying, i haven't done _ contested it in the january, saying, i haven't done this, _ contested it in the january, saying, i haven't done this, i— contested it in the january, saying, i haven't done this, i want - contested it in the january, saying, ihaven't done this, i want it- i haven't done this, i want it sorted, _ i haven't done this, i want it sorted, in _ i haven't done this, i want it sorted, in the _ i haven't done this, i want it sorted, in the april, - i haven't done this, i want it sorted, in the april, you - i haven't done this, i want it| sorted, in the april, you still i haven't done this, i want it- sorted, in the april, you still get a letter— sorted, in the april, you still get a letter demanding— sorted, in the april, you still get a letter demanding the - sorted, in the april, you still get a letter demanding the money. sorted, in the april, you still get l a letter demanding the money and then they— a letter demanding the money and then they take _ a letter demanding the money and then they take it _ a letter demanding the money and then they take it out _ a letter demanding the money and then they take it out of _ a letter demanding the money and then they take it out of your- then they take it out of your salary _ then they take it out of your salary if _ then they take it out of your salary. if you _ then they take it out of your salary. if you contested - then they take it out of youri salary. if you contested their ticket — salary. if you contested their ticket out _ salary. if you contested their ticket out of _ salary. if you contested their ticket out of your— salary. if you contested their ticket out of your salary. - salary. if you contested their ticket out of your salary. i i salary. if you contested their. ticket out of your salary. i was very— ticket out of your salary. i was very lucky. _ ticket out of your salary. i was very lucky. i_ ticket out of your salary. i was very lucky, i was _ ticket out of your salary. i was very lucky, i was very - ticket out of your salary. i was very lucky, i was very lucky i ticket out of your salary. i wasi very lucky, i was very lucky not ticket out of your salary. i was . very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in _ very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a _ very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a position— very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a position of— very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a position of some - very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a position of some of- very lucky, i was very lucky not to be in a position of some of these i be in a position of some of these other— be in a position of some of these other pe0pte. _ be in a position of some of these other people, but _ be in a position of some of these other people, but they— be in a position of some of these other people, but they really- be in a position of some of these other people, but they really are i other people, but they really are beyond _ other people, but they really are beyond redemption, _ other people, but they really are beyond redemption, post- other people, but they really are beyond redemption, post office. beyond — beyond redemption, post office. beyond redemption. _ beyond redemption, post office. beyond redemption. 'l'imu, - beyond redemption, post office. beyond redemption.— beyond redemption, post office. beyond redemption. tim, the same to ou, i beyond redemption. tim, the same to you. i think — beyond redemption. tim, the same to you. i think your— beyond redemption. tim, the same to you, i think your figure _ beyond redemption. tim, the same to you, i think your figure was _ beyond redemption. tim, the same to you, i think your figure was £22,000 i you, i think your figure was £22,000 that you paid, but he was still

charged and convicted?- that you paid, but he was still charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall— charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall of— charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall of 22500 _ charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall of 22500 and - charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall of 22500 and i - charged and convicted? yes, an audit found a shortfall of 22500 and i was i found a shortfall of 22500 and i was told if i did not repay it i would be facing a theft charge, i raided my savings are my parents savings and i had to sell my car and as soon as that was done, i was then charged with false accounting. past as that was done, i was then charged with false accounting.— with false accounting. post offices are the heart _ with false accounting. post offices are the heart of— with false accounting. post offices are the heart of communities. - with false accounting. post offices. are the heart of communities. they were. traditionally _ are the heart of communities. they were. traditionally over— are the heart of communities. they | were. traditionally over generations the have were. traditionally over generations they have been _ were. traditionally over generations they have been the _ were. traditionally over generations they have been the place _ were. traditionally over generations they have been the place where - were. traditionally over generations they have been the place where we | they have been the place where we have met one another and chatted and yourjobs have met one another and chatted and your jobs are have met one another and chatted and yourjobs are crucial for holding a community together. alison, how was your standing community together. alison, how was yourstanding in community together. alison, how was your standing in the community affected when this happened to you? i couldn't tell anybody. it was really hard when i got suspended. from the post office. because my shop is in the same building. because people were asking me, why are you not behind the post office counter any more? and ijust had to

say, oh, i have had a fallout with them, i don't want to work behind there any more, i have finished. but i couldn't tell anybody the truth. only my family and close friends. the actual truth wire wasn't behind the counter, it has taken me a long time to talk about it.— time to talk about it. what was atoin on time to talk about it. what was going on inside? _ time to talk about it. what was going on inside? i— time to talk about it. what was going on inside? i switched - time to talk about it. what was | going on inside? i switched off. time to talk about it. what was - going on inside? i switched off. my artner, going on inside? i switched off. my partner, richard, _ going on inside? i switched off. my partner, richard, he— going on inside? i switched off. my partner, richard, he did _ going on inside? i switched off. myi partner, richard, he did everything for me, finding the sub—postmasters, and ijust switched off. i didn't know what to do. it was just, just horrendous. and still taking me to court, they still took me to court. it also extends to your family. it does, it also extends to your family. does, yeah. it also extends to your family. it does. yeah- my _ it also extends to your family. it does, yeah. my eldest - it also extends to your family. it does, yeah. my eldest daughter| it also extends to your family. it - does, yeah. my eldest daughter kate is an estate agent, _

does, yeah. my eldest daughter kate is an estate agent, and _ does, yeah. my eldest daughter kate is an estate agent, and about - does, yeah. my eldest daughter kate is an estate agent, and about a - does, yeah. my eldest daughter kate is an estate agent, and about a weekj is an estate agent, and about a week or ten— is an estate agent, and about a week or ten days _ is an estate agent, and about a week or ten days after i was convicted, and it— or ten days after i was convicted, and it was— or ten days after i was convicted, and it was all over the local press, because _ and it was all over the local press, because they love that type of thing. — because they love that type of thing, she went to value a house in the village — thing, she went to value a house in the village a — thing, she went to value a house in the village a mile or two from the village _ the village a mile or two from the village where we lived, went into the house — village where we lived, went into the house and did all the business, measured — the house and did all the business, measured up, took the photos, and for the _ measured up, took the photos, and for the entire 20 minutes she was in there. _ for the entire 20 minutes she was in there. the _ for the entire 20 minutes she was in there, the couple that owned it were telling _ there, the couple that owned it were telling her _ there, the couple that owned it were telling her about this terrible, awfut— telling her about this terrible, awful man down at that post office, he stoteh _ awful man down at that post office, he stolen all the pensioners' money, he stolen all the pensioners' money, he is a _ he stolen all the pensioners' money, he is a rogue, he only got a suspended, he should have been chucked — suspended, he should have been chucked ih — suspended, he should have been chucked in prison and thrown away the key _ chucked in prison and thrown away the key. she held it together, whitst — the key. she held it together, whilst she was in there, at the moment— whilst she was in there, at the moment she got in her car outside, she spent— moment she got in her car outside, she spent 20 minutes crying because this couple _ she spent 20 minutes crying because this couple had no idea that she was my daughter. to this day, last week

when _ my daughter. to this day, last week when the _ my daughter. to this day, last week when the drama was put on, both of my daughters could not watch an episode — my daughters could not watch an episode right the way through. they could _ episode right the way through. they could watch about ten minutes before they had _ could watch about ten minutes before they had to _ could watch about ten minutes before they had to pause it, compose themselves, and watch the next bit. ithink— themselves, and watch the next bit. ithihk it's _ themselves, and watch the next bit. i think it's worse for your family than _ i think it's worse for your family than it— i think it's worse for your family than it was— i think it's worse for your family than it was possibly for me. but then— than it was possibly for me. but then i_ than it was possibly for me. but then i much stronger character, perhaps. — then i much stronger character, perhaps. i— then i much stronger character, perhaps, i don't know. a then i much stronger character, perhaps, i don't know.- perhaps, i don't know. a lot of --eole perhaps, i don't know. a lot of peeple were — perhaps, i don't know. a lot of people were saying _ perhaps, i don't know. a lot of people were saying to - perhaps, i don't know. a lot of people were saying to my - perhaps, i don't know. a lot of- people were saying to my daughter, i can't believe what's happened in the drama, and she said, i have lived it. i realise yesterday my daughter now is at the age now that i was when i was sent to prison. haifa now is at the age now that i was when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she _ when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she is _ when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she is 35. _ when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she is 35. she _ when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she is 35. she is - when i was sent to prison. how odd was that? she is 35. she is the - when i was sent to prison. how odd l was that? she is 35. she is the same a . e was that? she is 35. she is the same ace as was that? she is 35. she is the same are as i was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was — was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was when _ was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was when i _ was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was when i was _ was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was when i was sent - was that? she is 35. she is the same age as i was when i was sent to - age as i was when i was sent to prison. age as i was when i was sent to rison. ., . .,, age as i was when i was sent to rison. ., . age astas wheanas sent to rison. ., . ., age astas wheanas sent to rison. ., , �* prison. varchas, your father isn't here today. _ prison. varchas, your father isn't here today. you _ prison. varchas, your father isn't

here today, you are _ prison. varchas, your father isn't here today, you are here - prison. varchas, your father isn't here today, you are here on - prison. varchas, your father isn't here today, you are here on his i here today, you are here on his behalf, what would he like you to say? behalf, what would he like you to sa ? ~ , ., ., , behalf, what would he like you to sa ? . , ., ., , ., , say? well, my father was wrongfully rosecuted say? well, my father was wrongfully prosecuted for _ say? well, my father was wrongfully prosecuted for shortfall _ say? well, my father was wrongfully prosecuted for shortfall is _ say? well, my father was wrongfully prosecuted for shortfall is in - prosecuted for shortfall is in excess — prosecuted for shortfall is in excess of £75,000. that was in 2010 and 201k _ excess of £75,000. that was in 2010 and 201k his— excess of £75,000. that was in 2010 and 2011. his standing in the community went, he was, there was, for exanrpte. — community went, he was, there was, for example, there were wanted dead or alive _ for example, there were wanted dead or alive post is circulating of my father, — or alive post is circulating of my father, it — or alive post is circulating of my father, it was really horrible. in father, it was really horrible. in the father, it was really horrible. in the community? yeah, - father, it was really horrible. in the community? yeah, yeah. . father, it was really horrible. in. the community? yeah, yeah. it's absolutely _ the community? yeah, yeah. it's absolutely shocking. _ the community? yeah, yeah. it's absolutely shocking. there - the community? yeah, yeah. it's absolutely shocking. there was i absolutely shocking. there was intimidation, and i say this evidently, at one point they even built a _ evidently, at one point they even built a four— evidently, at one point they even built a four foot cross and they ptaced — built a four foot cross and they placed a — built a four foot cross and they placed a wreath on it outside the shop _ placed a wreath on it outside the shop on — placed a wreath on it outside the shop on the village green, and carved — shop on the village green, and carved rip and put paper to say his name' _ carved rip and put paper to say his nanre. right— carved rip and put paper to say his name, right outside our shop. on

other— name, right outside our shop. on other occasion they were having meetings — other occasion they were having meetings to block our business driveway, — meetings to block our business driveway, and our private driveway, and again. — driveway, and our private driveway, and again, this is evidential. to drive _ and again, this is evidential. to drive munr _ and again, this is evidential. to drive mum and dad out of the village because _ drive mum and dad out of the village because they effectively saw my father— because they effectively saw my father as — because they effectively saw my father as a post office robber. and how did that _ father as a post office robber. fific how did that affect you as you his son? , ,., . ,, how did that affect you as you his son? , . ,, ., son? every time i went back to the villare in son? every time i went back to the village in oxfordshire, _ son? every time i went back to the village in oxfordshire, i _ son? every time i went back to the village in oxfordshire, i was - village in oxfordshire, i was taunted _ village in oxfordshire, i was taunted by some people and it was horrible _ taunted by some people and it was horrible. at times i didn't feel as if i horrible. at times i didn't feel as if i wanted — horrible. at times i didn't feel as if i wanted to show my face outside of the _ if i wanted to show my face outside of the shop. at 1.i if i wanted to show my face outside of the shop. at ii was even scared to go— of the shop. at ii was even scared to go outside the shop. my father was always worried every time i was outside _ was always worried every time i was outside the — was always worried every time i was outside the premises in case they started _ outside the premises in case they started for— outside the premises in case they started for me.— started for me. scott, is these comments. — started for me. scott, is these comments, is _

started for me. scott, is these comments, is that _ started for me. scott, is these comments, is that something | started for me. scott, is these i comments, is that something you experienced? comments, is that something you experienced?_ experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to — experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to plead _ experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to plead not _ experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to plead not guilty - experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to plead not guilty but. experienced? yes, pretty much. i wanted to plead not guilty but i l experienced? yes, pretty much. i l wanted to plead not guilty but i was advised to plead guilty because we didn't have the information. they held all the cards, the post office held all the cards, the post office held all the cards. you held all the cards, the post office held all the cards.— held all the cards. you are one of those told _ held all the cards. you are one of those told that _ held all the cards. you are one of those told that it _ held all the cards. you are one of those told that it was _ held all the cards. you are one of those told that it was only - held all the cards. you are one of those told that it was only you? i | those told that it was only you? i can't rememberthem those told that it was only you? i can't remember them saying that to me. but i have heard it from everybody, they might well have said it to me but i cannot vouch for the fact. i wanted to plead not guilty but because we couldn't get any information, the barrister said to me, if you plead not guilty, you are probably going to go to prison. sol had to plead guilty. so then i am in the newspaper as pleading guilty so everybody thought i had had my hands in the till. going up to pick my daughters from school, parents had seen me pleading guilty and i'm supposed to be the postmaster and i knew i hadn't done anything. how my supposed to get out of this situation? it's taken all of these is to get to this point. i

situation? it's taken all of these is to get to this point.— is to get to this point. i had similar information - is to get to this point. i had similar information from i is to get to this point. i had | similar information from my is to get to this point. i had - similar information from my lawyer who said. _ similar information from my lawyer who said. if— similar information from my lawyer who said, if you plead not guilty, i can guarantee you will go to prison. he said. _ can guarantee you will go to prison. he said. no — can guarantee you will go to prison. he said, nojury in the land would believe _ he said, nojury in the land would believe an— he said, nojury in the land would believe an institution as cherished, cherished _ believe an institution as cherished, cherished as the post office could possibly— cherished as the post office could possibly have a computer system that is rubbish _ possibly have a computer system that is rubbish. he said, theyjust won't believe _ is rubbish. he said, theyjust won't believe it — is rubbish. he said, theyjust won't believe it. the only thing you can do, believe it. the only thing you can do. if— believe it. the only thing you can do. if you — believe it. the only thing you can do, if you are frightened of going to prison, — do, if you are frightened of going to prison, and believe you me i was petrified, _ to prison, and believe you me i was petrified, played gill not guilty, he said — petrified, played gill not guilty, he said -- — petrified, played gill not guilty, he said —— plead not guilty... plead guilty— he said —— plead not guilty... plead guilty 95% — he said —— plead not guilty... plead guilty 95% you will have a chance. i had to _ guilty 95% you will have a chance. i had to plead guilty so you did not io had to plead guilty so you did not go to _ had to plead guilty so you did not go to as — had to plead guilty so you did not go to. as usual, they went back on their— go to. as usual, they went back on their word — go to. as usual, they went back on their word. we go to. as usual, they went back on their word-— their word. we will speak to the post office _ their word. we will speak to the post office minister _ their word. we will speak to the post office minister in - their word. we will speak to the post office minister in a - their word. we will speak to the l post office minister in a moment. but what kind of strength does it give you to sit here together, to

have found one another, to have this community? irate have found one another, to have this community?— have found one another, to have this communi ? ~ ., , community? we had the strength when we were the 555- _ community? we had the strength when we were the 555. but _ community? we had the strength when we were the 555. but because - community? we had the strength when we were the 555. but because we - community? we had the strength when we were the 555. but because we all. we were the 555. but because we all lived all over the uk, we have not really all got together as a group as such, we always had one half and then we had the other, the south and then we had the other, the south and the north, we were north, weren't we? ~ ., ., we? we were sat in that village hall. me too. _ we? we were sat in that village hall. me too. and _ we? we were sat in that village hall. me too. and thinking, - we? we were sat in that village l hall. me too. and thinking, these eo - le hall. me too. and thinking, these people are _ hall. me too. and thinking, these people are telling _ hall. me too. and thinking, these people are telling my _ hall. me too. and thinking, these people are telling my story, - hall. me too. and thinking, these people are telling my story, i - hall. me too. and thinking, these | people are telling my story, i have never _ people are telling my story, i have never met — people are telling my story, i have never met these people but they were speaking _ never met these people but they were speaking what happened to me. it was quite bizarre, that day. just to meet — quite bizarre, that day. just to meet people who had my story but i had never— meet people who had my story but i had never met them before. strength in numbers- — had never met them before. strength in numbers. the _ had never met them before. strength in numbers. the fact _ had never met them before. strength in numbers. the fact that _ had never met them before. strength in numbers. the fact that there - had never met them before. strength in numbers. the fact that there are i in numbers. the fact that there are siml in numbers. the fact that there are simply some _ in numbers. the fact that there are simply some people _ in numbers. the fact that there are simply some people that _ in numbers. the fact that there are simply some people that are - in numbers. the fact that there are simply some people that are not i in numbers. the fact that there are i simply some people that are not here now. , . , . now. they never received 'ustice. i do think now. they never received 'ustice. i to think that h now. they never received 'ustice. i do think that we * now. they never received 'ustice. i do think that we will _ now. they never received 'ustice. i do think that we will be h now. they never received justice. i do think that we will be better- do think that we will be better offers— do think that we will be better offers a — do think that we will be better offers a large _ do think that we will be better offers a large group _ do think that we will be better offers a large group togetheri do think that we will be better- offers a large group together now. the media —

offers a large group together now. the media has— offers a large group together now. the media has taken— offers a large group together now. the media has taken this - offers a large group together now. the media has taken this on - offers a large group together now. i the media has taken this on board, and i_ the media has taken this on board, and i do _ the media has taken this on board, and i do believe _ the media has taken this on board, and i do believe that— the media has taken this on board, and i do believe that we _ the media has taken this on board, and i do believe that we have - the media has taken this on board, and i do believe that we have an. and i do believe that we have an institution — and i do believe that we have an institution that— and i do believe that we have an institution that is _ and i do believe that we have an institution that is old _ and i do believe that we have an institution that is old and - institution that is old and established, _ institution that is old and established, to— institution that is old and established, to deal- institution that is old and| established, to deal with, institution that is old and - established, to deal with, as a group, — established, to deal with, as a group, in _ established, to deal with, as a group, inthe— established, to deal with, as a group, in the country- established, to deal with, as a group, in the country needs. established, to deal with, as a group, in the country needs to established, to deal with, as a - group, in the country needs to look at it as _ group, in the country needs to look at it as welt — group, in the country needs to look at it as well-— at it as well. let's all now listen to the post _ at it as well. let's all now listen to the post office _ at it as well. let's all now listen to the post office minister- at it as well. let's all now listen to the post office minister who | to the post office minister who joins us live, kevin hollinrake. we understand that the government say they will leave no stone unturned in seeking justice, that they are going to repair the damage that has been done, and do it quickly, good morning. we are all ears, when are we going to hear what the government plans to do to help these people? very soon. when? it will be this week. these are clearly very significant steps we are about to take. in terms of the people who have been convicted, not enough have come forward, only 93 of the 983 have had their convictions overturned. we are determined to

accelerate that, there are the two ways to do it, either case by case which takes time, or we do it en masse, we do a blanket overturning of those convictions, which is a very significant step. because that interferes with the judicial process. but we know what a huge scandal this has been. but the depth and scale of it, we are looking at unprecedented steps to deal with this. but these are significant decisions we have got to make. we are keen to announce those decisions this week. we believe we have a solution, notjust to overturn the convictions, but to speeding up compensation for the group that is with you today, the 555. we are working on both those things and we are determined to give you a solution this week. irate are determined to give you a solution this week. we understand that rishi sunak _ solution this week. we understand that rishi sunak might _ solution this week. we understand that rishi sunak might be - solution this week. we understand that rishi sunak might be saying i that rishi sunak might be saying something about this today, it is prime ministers question time, can we expect something as soon as today? i we expect something as soon as toda ? ., , ,., we expect something as soon as toda ? , ., today? i hope so but i cannot confirm that _

today? i hope so but i cannot confirm that because - today? i hope so but i cannot confirm that because these i today? i hope so but i cannot i confirm that because these are today? i hope so but i cannot - confirm that because these are very complex issues. if we overturn this through legislation, you are interfering with the independence of the courts. that might seem bureaucratic or not a logical problem, but it is very significant, it is a significant legal step we are taking potentially. we know we have to do something very significant to resolve this matter as quickly as we would like to resolve it so we are considering these things very carefully. as quickly you would like to resolve it now, given the pressure this drama has put you under as a government, let's be honest. it is the case if it were not for the drama on telly, you would not be dealing with it quickly, you would not be dealing with it at all. that is not the case. _ not be dealing with it at all. that is not the case. i _ not be dealing with it at all. that is not the case. i spoke - not be dealing with it at all. “inst is not the case. i spoke on this issue in 2021 about the 555 group,

making sure those people had compensation. i have been working on this for my 15 months as postal minister, my priority. we have looked at the issue of overturning the convictions.— the convictions. looking at it but not necessarily _ the convictions. looking at it but not necessarily dealing - the convictions. looking at it but not necessarily dealing with - the convictions. looking at it but not necessarily dealing with it. i the convictions. looking at it but i not necessarily dealing with it. not necessarily coming up with solutions that all politicians of all parties seem to be racing desperately to reach. ., ., , ., , reach. the media has an interest, which i welcome. _ reach. the media has an interest, which i welcome. of— reach. the media has an interest, which i welcome. of course, - reach. the media has an interest, which i welcome. of course, it. reach. the media has an interest, - which i welcome. of course, it makes my life easier as postal minister to convince other parts of government and the opposition and others to do something significant and i welcome that. to say nothing has been happening is absolutely not the truth. myself and predecessors, they have been determined to deal with this. what you are talking about potentially is a blanket overturning of convictions, legislation that does that, it interferes with the

courts. the courts are independent in this country for good reason. it is a significant legal step we may be are about to take. that is why i cannot give you an answer now but hopefully we will very shortly. this hopefully we will very shortly. as ou hopefully we will very shortly. as you know, we are surrounded by those who have been deeply affected by this scandal. if you don't mind, we will throw it open to them to ask you questions. i will throw it open to them to ask you questions-— will throw it open to them to ask you questions. i start with janet, who was imprisoned. _ you questions. i start with janet, who was imprisoned. my - you questions. i start with janet, | who was imprisoned. my question you questions. i start with janet, i who was imprisoned. my question is you are _ who was imprisoned. my question is you are post— who was imprisoned. my question is you are post office minister. is the government going to take back control— government going to take back control over the post office? control over the post office ? currentty _ control over the post office? currently the post office, they are orchestrating convictions, they are in control— orchestrating convictions, they are in control of— orchestrating convictions, they are in control of the compensation. they are now— in control of the compensation. they are now classified as criminals, so why are _ are now classified as criminals, so why are they not having —— why are they having — why are they not having —— why are they having the power to control everything? i they having the power to control everything?— they having the power to control eve hint? , ., everything? i spoke about your case esterda everything? i spoke about your case yesterday with _

everything? i spoke about your case yesterday with david _ everything? i spoke about your case yesterday with david davis, - everything? i spoke about your case yesterday with david davis, who - everything? i spoke about your case yesterday with david davis, who has been working on your behalf and very keen to resolve that issue and to take it out of post office hands. yes, that is what we are keen to do but i cannot confirm it at this moment but i am keen to confirm it shortly. moment but i am keen to confirm it shortl . ., , ., , shortly. you can understand why these people _ shortly. you can understand why these people want _ shortly. you can understand why these people want the _ shortly. you can understand why these people want the post - shortly. you can understand why| these people want the post office shortly. you can understand why - these people want the post office to be taken out of this process. thea;r be taken out of this process. they have always _ be taken out of this process. they have always controlled _ be taken out of this process. they have always controlled everything and they— have always controlled everything and they have been allowed to control— and they have been allowed to control everything. the government saying _ control everything. the government saying we _ control everything. the government saying we are taking notice, they have _ saying we are taking notice, they have been— saying we are taking notice, they have been aware for the past ten years— have been aware for the past ten years and — have been aware for the past ten years and done nothing. you have been aware for the past ten years and done nothing.- have been aware for the past ten years and done nothing. you say you have been working _ years and done nothing. you say you have been working on _ years and done nothing. you say you have been working on it _ years and done nothing. you say you have been working on it hard - years and done nothing. you say you have been working on it hard as - years and done nothing. you say you have been working on it hard as a i have been working on it hard as a minister. i don't want to question that. you say your predecessors have. can you understand why the public and these people feel it has taken too long. why did you not acting sooner? i taken too long. why did you not acting sooner?— taken too long. why did you not acting sooner? taken too long. why did you not actint sooner? t. , . ., acting sooner? i can understand that and we have — acting sooner? i can understand that and we have been _ acting sooner? i can understand that and we have been frustrated. - acting sooner? i can understand that and we have been frustrated. you i acting sooner? i can understand thatj and we have been frustrated. you do one think and think it will work quickly and when the first convictions were overturned in 21, we thought there would be a wave of

people coming forward to overturn convictions. we probably had not anticipated some of the nervousness people might have about reopening the case, going back through a legal process, interacting with the post office again. that is why we have looked at options in terms of overturning convictions more rapidly and compensating people more rapidly. what we did back in autumn, we brought forward for people who have had convictions overturned a different group of compensation. at the moment claims are complex. every situation is different. we gave people the option of an award of tax—free, because we wanted people to access compensation and overturn those convictions, it has helped a significant proportion of the 30 people have accepted compensation. we have seen more people come

forward on that basis. but not enough have an that is why we are keen to make changes we are talking about making. tbs, keen to make changes we are talking about making-— about making. a lot of executives are getting _ about making. a lot of executives are getting near _ about making. a lot of executives are getting near enough - about making. a lot of executives are getting near enough up - about making. a lot of executives are getting near enough up to - are getting near enough up to £600,000. do you think it is fair that someone who has had their life turned _ that someone who has had their life turned upside down, you offer them 600,000 _ turned upside down, you offer them 600,000 i— turned upside down, you offer them 600,000. i think that is an easy copout~ — 600,000. i think that is an easy copout~ in — 600,000. i think that is an easy co tout. . 600,000. i think that is an easy co tout. , ., . , copout. in terms of executives responsible — copout. in terms of executives responsible within _ copout. in terms of executives responsible within the - copout. in terms of executives responsible within the post. copout. in terms of executives i responsible within the post office for what happened. we have the statutory inquiry. that will report by the end of the year or conclude by the end of the year or conclude by the end of the year or conclude by the end of the year and report soon after. by then we will be able to identify who is responsible. and at that point, decisions can be taken on whether people are prosecuted, what financial sanctions might be imposed on those people. those organisations, and fujitsu has been an organisation people have talked about, i think rightly. we do

not think the taxpayer alone should pick up the tab for compensation we are paying. irate pick up the tab for compensation we are -a in. ~ ., .,, pick up the tab for compensation we are -a in. ~ ., ., , ., are paying. we have lots of questions- _ are paying. we have lots of questions. tim, _ are paying. we have lots of questions. tim, i— are paying. we have lots of questions. tim, i think- are paying. we have lots of questions. tim, i think you| are paying. we have lots of - questions. tim, i think you wanted to ask a question.— questions. tim, i think you wanted to ask a question. what mechanisms will ou to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put — to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put in _ to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put in place _ to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put in place to _ to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put in place to speed - to ask a question. what mechanisms will you put in place to speed up - will you put in place to speed up compensation for everyone? i know someone _ compensation for everyone? i know someone who had their conviction quashed _ someone who had their conviction quashed in — someone who had their conviction quashed in 2021 and two and a half years— quashed in 2021 and two and a half years later— quashed in 2021 and two and a half years later nothing has happened. many— years later nothing has happened. many people have more complex claims _ many people have more complex claims. why can't you pay the £600,000 as an interim payment to everybody— £600,000 as an interim payment to everybody and allow people to claim if everybody and allow people to claim it they— everybody and allow people to claim if they feel their claim is bigger? and people without convictions, compensation for everyone, what can be put _ compensation for everyone, what can be put in _ compensation for everyone, what can be put in place to sort this out? it is a be put in place to sort this out? is a fair be put in place to sort this out? it is a fair question and the interim payment for someone with a conviction is 163,000. the 600,000 is a full and final settlement alternative rather than going down the complex rate of detailed

assessment. what is vantage is the fixed route takes people out of the queue which should mean compensation delivered more rapidly for others waiting for claims to be assessed. 0f waiting for claims to be assessed. of course, we have looked at that for potentially other schemes. one thing we hope to do when we make an announcement is make it on what we are doing to speed up compensation for people in the 555. that is something that will form part of the announcement hopefully. irate something that will form part of the announcement hopefully.— announcement hopefully. we have varchas who _ announcement hopefully. we have varchas who is _ announcement hopefully. we have varchas who is here _ announcement hopefully. we have varchas who is here on _ announcement hopefully. we have varchas who is here on behalf- announcement hopefully. we have varchas who is here on behalf of i announcement hopefully. we have. varchas who is here on behalf of his father who has suffered with his health. ., ., ., ., , health. you said in parliament to my mp that everyone _ health. you said in parliament to my mp that everyone with _ health. you said in parliament to my mp that everyone with an _ health. you said in parliament to my| mp that everyone with an overturned conviction— mp that everyone with an overturned conviction is— mp that everyone with an overturned conviction is entitled to an interim payment _ conviction is entitled to an interim payment yet despite the courts overturning my father's conviction with no— overturning my father's conviction with no stain on his record, him

being _ with no stain on his record, him being an — with no stain on his record, him being an innocent man, post office and lawyers have refused to pay my father— and lawyers have refused to pay my father and _ and lawyers have refused to pay my father and others interim payments. their convictions are overturned. why has— their convictions are overturned. why has three years gone by and my father— why has three years gone by and my father has— why has three years gone by and my father has not received the £163,000 interim _ father has not received the £163,000 interim payment? that father has not received the £163,000 interim payment?— interim payment? that is a fair question- _ interim payment? that is a fair question- we _ interim payment? that is a fair question. we have _ interim payment? that is a fair question. we have looked - interim payment? that is a fair question. we have looked at i interim payment? that is a fair. question. we have looked at your father's case and the case rightly or randomly was seen not to be related to the scandal itself. you may contest that. i have been talking about this in your case and others to the advisory board on which sits kevinjones and others, key campaigners, about your case. we are keen to find a solution when we do announce a solution that covers your father's kind of case as well.

one more question. will the investigators, the employees, so-catted _ investigators, the employees, so—called investigators in the post office _ so—called investigators in the post office who — so—called investigators in the post office who apparently investigated everyone's cases for shortfalls, will they— everyone's cases for shortfalls, will they be investigated and prosecuted if appropriate? the answer is yes, _ prosecuted if appropriate? the answer is yes, if _ prosecuted if appropriate? iie: answer is yes, if people prosecuted if appropriate? i““i;e: answer is yes, if people are prosecuted if appropriate? i““i9 answer is yes, if people are guilty of something the authorities can prosecute for. police are independent of parliament and they will make decisions on who they prosecute. but the inquiry, and our law enforcement are looking at evidence coming from the inquiry. the inquiry, when it concludes, that evidence will be available to any authority, so prosecutions potentially can follow for whoever is guilty of whatever they are guilty of an potentially financial sanctions to help contribute to the taxpayer bill. i

sanctions to help contribute to the taxpayer bill-— taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification _ taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification of _ taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification of the _ taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification of the role _ taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification of the role of - taxpayer bill. i think he wanted a clarification of the role of the - clarification of the role of the post office going forward. mohammed. i wanted to know _ post office going forward. mohammed. i wanted to know if _ post office going forward. mohammed. i wanted to know if the _ post office going forward. mohammed. i wanted to know if the post _ post office going forward. mohammed. i wanted to know if the post office - i wanted to know if the post office will still _ i wanted to know if the post office will still have a say in who gets their— will still have a say in who gets their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case _ their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case we _ their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case we take _ their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case we take it _ their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case we take it out - their convictions quashed. we want it to be a case we take it out of - it to be a case we take it out of their hands and provide a solution which is more rapid and dealt with separately from the post office. the short answer is no, they will not have. .. , :, short answer is no, they will not have, , ., ., short answer is no, they will not have. , ., ., , ., ., have. sally. i have a question as a dauthter have. sally. i have a question as a daughter of— have. sally. i have a question as a daughter of a _ have. sally. i have a question as a daughter of a far _ have. sally. i have a question as a daughter of a far east _ have. sally. i have a question as a daughter of a far east pow. - have. sally. i have a question as a j daughter of a far east pow. about fujitsu _ daughter of a far east pow. about fujitsu. fujitsu seem to have managed _ fujitsu. fujitsu seem to have managed to accumulate substantial contracts— managed to accumulate substantial contracts and government over the years _ contracts and government over the years i_ contracts and government over the years. i believe that they should be held responsible for some of the compensation. what is your opinion about— compensation. what is your opinion about fujitsu taking contracts on and their— about fujitsu taking contracts on and their behaviour with the post

office? _ and their behaviour with the post office? |— and their behaviour with the post office? ~ :, and their behaviour with the post office? ~' ., ., office? i think we need to go throuth office? i think we need to go through a — office? i think we need to go through a process _ office? i think we need to go through a process and - office? i think we need to go through a process and that i office? i think we need to go - through a process and that process is under way. parliament has set up a statutory inquiry looking at responsibility. the way our system works is we have these inquiries. it takes evidence which is conclusions and identifies who is responsible. we have had questions about who is more responsible, fujitsu, post office and others and when the inquiry identifies responsibility, those questions can be answered and conversations will be had. you those questions can be answered and conversations will be had.— conversations will be had. you have not actually — conversations will be had. you have not actually said _ conversations will be had. you have not actually said are _ conversations will be had. you have not actually said are you _ conversations will be had. you have not actually said are you going - conversations will be had. you have not actually said are you going to i not actually said are you going to continue — not actually said are you going to continue giving fujitsu government contracts _ continue giving fujitsu government contracts as a result of their past history— contracts as a result of their past history with horizon?— history with horizon? horizon is faul . history with horizon? horizon is faulty- we _ history with horizon? horizon is faulty- we do — history with horizon? horizon is faulty. we do not _ history with horizon? horizon is faulty. we do not know- history with horizon? horizon is faulty. we do not know the - history with horizon? horizon is i faulty. we do not know the history yet. you might have made a judgment. we will reservejudgment yet. you might have made a judgment. we will reserve judgment until the inquiry reaches a conclusion. that

is a government _ inquiry reaches a conclusion. that is a government give up, thank you. a classic— is a government give up, thank you. a classic government give up is how sally describes that. you say we do not know the issue with fujitsu and horizon but it did not work and is still used in post offices across the country. still used in post offices across the country-— still used in post offices across the count . ., ., ,, the country. how the legal process works in the _ the country. how the legal process works in the uk, _ the country. how the legal process works in the uk, and _ the country. how the legal process works in the uk, and this - the country. how the legal process works in the uk, and this is - the country. how the legal process works in the uk, and this is an - works in the uk, and this is an inquiry set up by parliament, we take evidence. we do not reach a conclusion until the end of the inquiry and when we reach a conclusion we can take action potentially people with you want to see us take. i am sympathetic to that perspective. i can see some people will have made up their mind. i do not think it is right to make up i do not think it is right to make up your mind on a dramatisation and i don't mean that... i up your mind on a dramatisation and i don't mean that. . ._ i don't mean that... i am going to interru -t i don't mean that... i am going to interrupt you _ i don't mean that... i am going to interrupt you because _ i don't mean that. .. i am going to interrupt you because i _ i don't mean that... i am going to interrupt you because i am - i don't mean that... i am going to | interrupt you because i am getting angry— interrupt you because i am getting angry with — interrupt you because i am getting angry with this. this is one of the worst— angry with this. this is one of the worst miscarriages injustice this

country— worst miscarriages injustice this country has ever seen. fujitsu are part of— country has ever seen. fujitsu are part of it — country has ever seen. fujitsu are part of it and post office the other part of it and post office the other part and _ part of it and post office the other part and the government pays both. you own— part and the government pays both. you own post office limited. i want answers. _ you own post office limited. i want answers, please, from ministers, including — answers, please, from ministers, including you, about what you intend to do _ including you, about what you intend to do about — including you, about what you intend to do about the post office and fujitsu — to do about the post office and fujitsu i— to do about the post office and fujitsu. i do not wanted at the end of the _ fujitsu. i do not wanted at the end of the inquiry because i trust the inquiry— of the inquiry because i trust the inquiry to— of the inquiry because i trust the inquiry to find the answers but i am asking _ inquiry to find the answers but i am asking you — inquiry to find the answers but i am asking you in an election year what the government is intending to do and i_ the government is intending to do and i want — the government is intending to do and i want answers fairly quickly because — and i want answers fairly quickly because most of these people who have suffered on this need compensation. they have had long enough. _ compensation. they have had long enough, frankly, to faffing around with this _ enough, frankly, to faffing around with this government and previous governments and you need to get it sorted _ governments and you need to get it sorted soon and we want timescales. the inquiry— sorted soon and we want timescales. the inquiry is not getting in the way of compensation. we can more rapidly deliver compensation, aside from the inquiry, but the point and

we are keen to do that, and hopefully will be part of the announcement this week but in terms of individual responsibility, organisational responsibility, and i support this, we let the inquiry do its work and then identify those responsible and then impose sanctions on those responsible, be it a prosecution, asking people to contribute to the taxpayer bill for compensation.— compensation. they already took sanctions on _ compensation. they already took sanctions on everyone _ compensation. they already took sanctions on everyone else. - compensation. they already tookj sanctions on everyone else. they accused — sanctions on everyone else. they accused everyone without evidence. why does _ accused everyone without evidence. why does that make any difference to how you _ why does that make any difference to how you are _ why does that make any difference to how you are saying the process will be now? _ how you are saying the process will be now? |— how you are saying the process will be now? ~ , how you are saying the process will be now? ~' , ., ., be now? i think they were wrong to do that. be now? i think they were wrong to do that- and _ be now? i think they were wrong to do that. and it — be now? i think they were wrong to do that. and it would _ be now? i think they were wrong to do that. and it would be _ be now? i think they were wrong to do that. and it would be the - be now? i think they were wrong to do that. and it would be the wrong | do that. and it would be the wrong thing now to do something else that is against the way the system should work. we got here in the first place by not... we got to a position where

people were asked to make good shortfalls or were convicted without proper analysis of evidence. ogre shortfalls or were convicted without proper analysis of evidence. are you totin to proper analysis of evidence. are you going to stop _ proper analysis of evidence. are you going to stop private _ proper analysis of evidence. are you going to stop private prosecutions i going to stop private prosecutions with the _ going to stop private prosecutions with the post office? post going to stop private prosecutions with the post office?— with the post office? post office are not doing — with the post office? post office are not doing private _ with the post office? post office i are not doing private prosecutions and have not since 2015 and they should not do private prosecutions. anybody in this country can undertake a private prosecution. this is not a specific right of the post office but the justice secretary is looking at this across the whole landscape. it secretary is looking at this across the whole landscape.— the whole landscape. it was a s-ecific the whole landscape. it was a specific right _ the whole landscape. it was a specific right earned - the whole landscape. it was a specific right earned by - the whole landscape. it was a specific right earned by the i the whole landscape. it was a - specific right earned by the royal mail that— specific right earned by the royal mail that the post office adopted when _ mail that the post office adopted when they separated in 2012. an issue a when they separated in 2012. issue a lot when they separated in 2012. in issue a lot of viewers are when they separated in 2012. .ii.“i issue a lot of viewers are asking about is paula vennells. yesterday she handed back her cbe after public pressure on her. a lot of people are saying she should hand back some of

the bonuses and pension advantages she has had. i was wondering from all of you in the studio if i could ask you to raise your hands if you think she should have to hand back bonuses and pensions? find think she should have to hand back bonuses and pensions?— think she should have to hand back bonuses and pensions? and so should nick reed, bonuses and pensions? and so should nick reed. the _ bonuses and pensions? and so should nick reed, the current _ bonuses and pensions? and so should nick reed, the current month. - nick reed, the current month. that is unanimous. _ nick reed, the current month. that is unanimous, what _ nick reed, the current month. “i“isgt is unanimous, what do you say? i think i was one of the first people to say paula vennells should hand back her cbe which she has agreed to do. and bonuses? as i say, i think we need to go through due process. i know people with you will not be happy about that but that is the system we run. we do not do trial by media. we run a process, an inquiry and all those answers and sanctions and all those answers and sanctions and enforcement actions can be taken at the end of the inquiry when we know the evidence, who is responsible and the conclusions, who is responsible. was it the post

office, was it fujitsu, individuals within the post office? was it government? i within the post office? was it government?— within the post office? was it government? within the post office? was it tovernment? ~ , ., ., government? i think we should go throuth a government? i think we should go through a process. _ government? i think we should go through a process. minister, - government? i think we should go| through a process. minister, thank you. it is a difficult situation sitting on the other end of the line and you have these guys and us. we asked the guys at the beginning whether they felt they were being listened to, whether you felt politicians were listening. give a show of hands, do you think you have got what you wanted from the minister? ., got what you wanted from the minister? :, :, got what you wanted from the minister? ., ., ., ., ., minister? no, i am in london later, i mitht minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop — minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop in _ minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop in and _ minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop in and see _ minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop in and see you. - minister? no, i am in london later, i might pop in and see you. there i minister? no, i am in london later, i i might pop in and see you. there we to. if the i might pop in and see you. there we go. if the minister _ i might pop in and see you. there we go. if the minister is _ i might pop in and see you. there we go. if the minister is still _ i might pop in and see you. there we go. if the minister is still there, - go. if the minister is still there, maria is coming to see you. you are going to the inquiry? itruthtztt maria is coming to see you. you are going to the inquiry?— going to the inquiry? what will you tell them? i _ going to the inquiry? what will you tell them? i am _ going to the inquiry? what will you tell them? i am watching - going to the inquiry? what will you tell them? i am watching an - tell them? i am watching an investigator who helped send me to prison _ investigator who helped send me to prison to— investigator who helped send me to trison. :, :, investigator who helped send me to trison. :, ., . prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow — prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow. what _ prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow. what do _ prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow. what do you _ prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow. what do you want - prison. to hear them give evidence? tomorrow. what do you want to - prison. to hear them give evidence? i

tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brou t ht a tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brought a notepad _ tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brought a notepad to _ tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brought a notepad to write _ tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brought a notepad to write down. - tomorrow. what do you want to hear? i brought a notepad to write down. i i i brought a notepad to write down. i am going _ i brought a notepad to write down. i am going to — i brought a notepad to write down. i am going to calculate to see how many— am going to calculate to see how many times he says i do not recall, i do many times he says i do not recall, i do not _ many times he says i do not recall, i do not remember.— i do not remember. that is the problem- _ i do not remember. that is the problem- the _ i do not remember. that is the problem. the inquiry _ i do not remember. that is the problem. the inquiry has - i do not remember. that is the i problem. the inquiry has people i do not remember. that is the - problem. the inquiry has people from the post _ problem. the inquiry has people from the post office. _ problem. the inquiry has people from the post office. they— problem. the inquiry has people from the post office. they have _ problem. the inquiry has people from the post office. they have a - problem. the inquiry has people from the post office. they have a major. the post office. they have a major medical— the post office. they have a major medical issue _ the post office. they have a major medical issue which _ the post office. they have a major medical issue which is _ the post office. they have a major medical issue which is corporate i medical issue which is corporate amnesia~ — medical issue which is corporate amnesia~ they— medical issue which is corporate amnesia. they produce - medical issue which is corporate amnesia. they produce with - medical issue which is corporate amnesia. they produce with the | medical issue which is corporate - amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper— amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper they — amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper they have _ amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper they have written _ amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper they have written an - amnesia. they produce with the piece of paper they have written an e—maili of paper they have written an e—mail on. of paper they have written an e—mail on it— of paper they have written an e—mail on it comes — of paper they have written an e—mail on it comes up _ of paper they have written an e—mail on it comes up on _ of paper they have written an e—mail on. it comes up on the _ of paper they have written an e—mail on. it comes up on the screen - of paper they have written an e—mail on. it comes up on the screen it- of paper they have written an e—mail on. it comes up on the screen it is. on. it comes up on the screen it is from _ on. it comes up on the screen it is from them — on. it comes up on the screen it is from them and _ on. it comes up on the screen it is from them. and they— on. it comes up on the screen it is from them. and they are - on. it comes up on the screen it is from them. and they are not - on. it comes up on the screen it is from them. and they are not able | on. it comes up on the screen it is. from them. and they are not able to recall— from them. and they are not able to recall it _ from them. and they are not able to recall it for — from them. and they are not able to recall it for some _ from them. and they are not able to recall it for some unknown - from them. and they are not able to recall it for some unknown reason. i recall it for some unknown reason. they— recall it for some unknown reason. they have — recall it for some unknown reason. they have signed _ recall it for some unknown reason. they have signed nondisclosure . they have signed nondisclosure agreements _ they have signed nondisclosure agreements. they _ they have signed nondisclosure agreements. they are - they have signed nondisclosure agreements. they are not - they have signed nondisclosure - agreements. they are not responding to the _ agreements. they are not responding to the lawyers — agreements. they are not responding to the lawyers who _ agreements. they are not responding to the lawyers who are _ agreements. they are not responding to the lawyers who are asking - agreements. they are not responding to the lawyers who are asking them i to the lawyers who are asking them guestions — to the lawyers who are asking them questions it— to the lawyers who are asking them questions it is— to the lawyers who are asking them questions. it is nauseating - to the lawyers who are asking them questions. it is nauseating to- to the lawyers who are asking them questions. it is nauseating to sit. questions. it is nauseating to sit and watch — questions. it is nauseating to sit and watch some _ questions. it is nauseating to sit and watch some of— questions. it is nauseating to sit and watch some of these - questions. it is nauseating to sitj and watch some of these people questions. it is nauseating to sit- and watch some of these people live. a reminder— and watch some of these people live. a reminder that— and watch some of these people live. a reminder that an _ and watch some of these people live. a reminder that an inquiry, _ and watch some of these people live. a reminder that an inquiry, it- a reminder that an inquiry, it restarts tomorrow. tom, do you have faith in the inquiry that it will give answers you need? i do have faith. i worked _

give answers you need? i do have faith. i worked out _ give answers you need? i do have faith. i worked out fairly - give answers you need? i do have faith. i worked out fairly early - faith. i worked out fairly early that— faith. i worked out fairly early that williams has worked out what a pile of— that williams has worked out what a pile of the _ that williams has worked out what a pile of the post office are, work, and they— pile of the post office are, work, and they do not seem to get an awful lot better _ and they do not seem to get an awful lot better. all the scandal we had earlier— lot better. all the scandal we had earlier in— lot better. all the scandal we had earlier in year when the ceo paid a bonus— earlier in year when the ceo paid a bonus for— earlier in year when the ceo paid a bonus for the job they were supposed to be doing _ bonus for the job they were supposed to be doing anyway. it is unbelievable.— to be doing anyway. it is unbelievable. , ., :: :: :: :: :: m unbelievable. just over 400,000. he onl taid unbelievable. just over 400,000. he only paid back— unbelievable. just over 400,000. he only paid back as _ unbelievable. just over 400,000. he only paid back as i _ unbelievable. just over 400,000. he only paid back as i understand - unbelievable. just over 400,000. he only paid back as i understand 10% i only paid back as i understand 10% of that _ only paid back as i understand 10% of that we — only paid back as i understand 10% of that. ~ :, :, only paid back as i understand 10% ofthat. :, :, ~' :, only paid back as i understand 10% ofthat. ., ., ~ ., ., , of that. we do not know that. it is speculation- _ of that. we do not know that. it is speculation- i— of that. we do not know that. it is speculation. i am _ of that. we do not know that. it is speculation. i am seeing - of that. we do not know that. it is speculation. i am seeing post - of that. we do not know that. it is i speculation. i am seeing post office signs. we walk past them in communities on the high street,

every day. when you see that sign after everything you have been through, what does it make you think? i through, what does it make you think? ., �* ~ ., ., think? i don't like it. i have not been in a _ think? i don't like it. i have not been in a post— think? i don't like it. i have not been in a post office _ think? i don't like it. i have not been in a post office since - think? i don't like it. i have not been in a post office since i - think? i don't like it. i have not| been in a post office since i was convicted — been in a post office since i was convicted. you have not step foot? never— convicted. you have not step foot? never stepped foot in one. ijust won't~ _ never stepped foot in one. ijust won't i— never stepped foot in one. ijust won't. i cannot stand to see the signs _ won't. i cannot stand to see the signs i— won't. i cannot stand to see the signs. i walk through a town and see onem _ signs. i walk through a town and see onem fven — signs. i walk through a town and see one... even the vans going past, anything — one... even the vans going past, anything with the post office sign. especially when they try to sell themselves— especially when they try to sell themselves as _ especially when they try to sell themselves as the _ especially when they try to sell themselves as the most - especially when they try to selll themselves as the most trusted especially when they try to sell. themselves as the most trusted in themselves as the most trusted in the country — themselves as the most trusted in the country i— themselves as the most trusted in the country-— the country. i feel sorry for the tteole the country. i feel sorry for the people who — the country. i feel sorry for the people who are _ the country. i feel sorry for the people who are currently - the country. i feel sorry for the i people who are currently running tocat— people who are currently running local post — people who are currently running local post offices. they need support _ local post offices. they need support. they do not need slander. they have — support. they do not need slander. they have not created this issue. they— they have not created this issue. they are — they have not created this issue. they are stuck in the position of trying _ they are stuck in the position of trying to— they are stuck in the position of trying to earn a living. do i boycott _ trying to earn a living. do i boycott them? i don't, i support my

local post _ boycott them? i don't, i support my local post office. i know what it was like — local post office. i know what it was like for me. it local post office. i know what it was like for me.— was like for me. it has been important — was like for me. it has been important to _ was like for me. it has been important to hear _ was like for me. it has been important to hear your - was like for me. it has been i important to hear your stories. was like for me. it has been - important to hear your stories. we started with you talking about how you had been affected and i wonder if we could ask you again, starting with tom, one thing you think needs to be done. with tom, one thing you think needs to be done-— to be done. tom. speed up the compensation. _ to be done. tom. speed up the compensation. final— to be done. tom. speed up the compensation. final redress i to be done. tom. speed up the| compensation. final redress for everybody- _ compensation. final redress for everybody. speed _ compensation. final redress for everybody. speed up _ compensation. final redress for everybody. speed up the - everybody. speed up the compensation. _ everybody. speed up the i compensation. mohammed. everybody. speed up the _ compensation. mohammed. complete declaration of— compensation. mohammed. complete declaration of all _ compensation. mohammed. complete declaration of all these _ declaration of all these sub—postmaster is that they are innocent, at their relative offices where they worked. to say that post office have wrongly convicted them and they are sorry.— and they are sorry. public exoneration _ and they are sorry. public exoneration in _ and they are sorry. public exoneration in each i and they are sorry. public exoneration in each post| and they are sorry. public- exoneration in each post office. accountability. i want

accountability. compensation, but accountability. compensation, but accountability is what we need. and people _ accountability is what we need. and people to _ accountability is what we need. and people to be persecuted the same way we have _ people to be persecuted the same way we have. the people to be persecuted the same way we have. ., , we have. the same really. the perpetrators — we have. the same really. the perpetrators need _ we have. the same really. the perpetrators need to _ we have. the same really. the perpetrators need to be - we have. the same really. the i perpetrators need to be brought to account _ perpetrators need to be brought to account otherwise _ perpetrators need to be brought to account otherwise it _ perpetrators need to be brought to account otherwise it will— perpetrators need to be brought to account otherwise it will not - perpetrators need to be brought to account otherwise it will not feel i account otherwise it will not feel like justice~ _ account otherwise it will not feel like justice-— account otherwise it will not feel like 'ustice. . ., ., ~ like 'ustice. what do you think your dad like justice. what do you think your dad will be thinking _ like justice. what do you think your dad will be thinking as _ like justice. what do you think your dad will be thinking as he - like justice. what do you think your| dad will be thinking as he watches? for the post office to accept liability because it was wrongful prosecution and pay my father and interim payment.— interim payment. speed up compensation _ interim payment. speed up compensation and - interim payment. speed up compensation and speed i interim payment. speed up| compensation and speed up convictions.— compensation and speed up convictions. ~ . convictions. like wise with the compensation, _ convictions. like wise with the compensation, it _ convictions. like wise with the compensation, it needs - convictions. like wise with the compensation, it needs to i convictions. like wise with the compensation, it needs to be| convictions. like wise with the i compensation, it needs to be done sooner— compensation, it needs to be done sooner rather— compensation, it needs to be done sooner rather than— compensation, it needs to be done sooner rather than later _ compensation, it needs to be done sooner rather than later and - sooner rather than later and accountability _ sooner rather than later and accountability has— sooner rather than later and accountability has to - sooner rather than later and accountability has to be i sooner rather than later and i accountability has to be properly done~ _ accountability has to be properly done we — accountability has to be properly done we have _ accountability has to be properly done. we have to— accountability has to be properly done. we have to be _ accountability has to be properly done. we have to be trusting i accountability has to be properly| done. we have to be trusting the people _ done. we have to be trusting the people that — done. we have to be trusting the people that do _ done. we have to be trusting the people that do it. _ done. we have to be trusting the people that do it.— people that do it. maria, you had never spoken _ people that do it. maria, you had never spoken about _ people that do it. maria, you had never spoken about this - people that do it. maria, you had never spoken about this publicly | never spoken about this publicly before and you have spoken about it to millions of people on uk television. what does it feel like

to have gone public and have your say? it to have gone public and have your sa ? . to have gone public and have your sa ? , , say? it feels good. these good tteole say? it feels good. these good people around _ say? it feels good. these good people around me, _ say? it feels good. these good people around me, without i say? it feels good. these good i people around me, without these, i could _ people around me, without these, i could not— people around me, without these, i could not have done this today. we could not have done this today. appreciate could not have done this today. 9 appreciate all of you coming in and talking to us. thank you. we will keepin talking to us. thank you. we will keep in touch with you and keep across it and try to get more answers. thank you. we have had a real sense of what has gone on over the last 20 years or so, give us a sense of the move from your callers. we have been overwhelmed and i have just got to say that the last 15 minutes of television has been incredible. i have been so profoundly moved by it. hearing the sadness and the frustration and the disbelief and the anger from those good people that you have there. and

i am honoured to say that six of those amazing people have agreed to come into our studio this morning and speak to our audience. we are on five live, we are going to be on bbc news and bbc two as well. it gives us a chance to further tell the story and there is so much to tell, i know. also for our listeners and viewers to speak to them as well. that is happening at 9am. and you can connect at your standard message rate. that's coming.— rate. that's coming. thank you very much. i'm nicky schiller, with more on the post office scandal which has been dominating the news over the past week or so. let's speak to nicki arch, who ran the chalford hill post office near stroud in gloucestershire and was wrongly accused of stealing £24,000. nicki, thank you forjoining us. just remind us what happened to you. i was running a business a little

shop at the local post office. i had the auditors come and the investigators turn up. they closed me down immediately. i was eventually charged, once they had splashed all over the local newspapers that i had stolen money off of elderly people. two years after that, off of elderly people. two years afterthat, i off of elderly people. two years after that, i did a three and a half day crown court appearance and defended myself and luckily, the jury found me not guilty. but by thenit jury found me not guilty. but by then it was too late, two years on, everything had gone, everything had been ruined. my reputation was in pieces. yes, it was hideous. but, you know, 24 years on nearly now and the fight continues. absolutely. you have been listening to what the minister said on bbc breakfast and he said that a new route is very, very close. what

would you like the government to do? actually do something. the talk is cheap. we have heard all of this before. you know, you have got to understand that the government owned the post office, it in their best interest to protect themselves and their colleagues who have got involvement in this. and their needs always come before ours. so, it's easy to say, yes, we are going to be doing this. everyone apply. my claim for compensation has been in four months and months now and nobody has done a single thing about it. so, you know, the talk is very good. this is the first time we have had the whole nation behind us and all the whole nation behind us and all the media which isjust the whole nation behind us and all the media which is just fantastic. let's see as an entity whether we can actually get them to do something. we can talk about it,

they can talk about it and answer questions but we want action. we want to see them actually do something, not talk about it. talk is not good enough any more. how surprised have you been to the public reaction to the itv drama? this has been going on, as you well know, for decades but suddenly people are now talking about it. i have got friends who are literally talking to me about it and saying, have you seen... ? why has this taken so long? why has this not been sorted? it's fantastic, isn't it. we have tried. we had the book, we had the play. we have tried everything to get it out into the public. you know, as a group we just keep trying and thinking of ways we can try and get the media to pick it up. we never thought...

get the media to pick it up. we neverthought... it get the media to pick it up. we never thought... it was always going to be that the drama was going to be very good and it was very... too close to comfort, it was very real. so for the public and media to get behind us now isjust so for the public and media to get behind us now is just fantastic. it's what we needed. it's what we have been fighting for the two decades now. now we have got it we can't thank them enough. you know, just as the publics emotions come through who have had nothing to do with them. the belief that they have, it means everything to all of us. you know, we have shouted from the rooftops our innocence for so long but there is nothing better than having the real people of this country supporting us. it'sjust fantastic. yes. we wish you well. thank you very much forjoining us on bbc news. thank you for having me. you are most welcome. we're joined now by professor graham zellick, former chair of the criminal

cases review commission. why has this taken so long to sort out? and get to the position that we are in as we are at the moment? i wishi are in as we are at the moment? i wish i could answer that question. i am bewildered and bemused as everybody else's by what has happened. those of us on the sidelines have been watching with dismay ending credulity is the saga has unfolded over the years. and only now in the wake of a television, a powerful television drama have the powers that be in being galvanised into action. it is inexplicable. being galvanised into action. it is inexplicable-_ being galvanised into action. it is inextlicable. ., :, ., inexplicable. what options are now 0 ten to inexplicable. what options are now open to the — inexplicable. what options are now open to the government? - open to the government? the two options that seem to be on the table are these, first, emergency legislation that would cancel all of the relevant convictions. and that particular

proposal seems to be gaining a great deal of support. it's not a proposal that i would support and there are other critics of it too. including among those who suffered the miscarriage ofjustice. so the alternative would be to allow the normal machinery with a bit of vigour attached to it to do its work. 0k professor i just 0k professor ijust need to welcome our viewers from bbc two. just bear with us as we welcome our viewers from bbc two. hello. you're watching bbc news. i'm nicky schiller, with more on the post office scandal which has been dominating the news over the past week or so. lam i am talking to a former member of the criminal cases review. you are outlining what the government can do

next. just recap what you were saying. the two proposals are emergency legislation or use the normal machinery. the justice legislation or use the normal machinery. thejustice secretary said in the house of commons that they would only pursue the unprecedented course of legislation if all other possibilities had been exhausted. they haven't been. we are one of the few countries in the world that has standing machinery to correct miscarriages ofjustice. i am very proud of that. it is one of the features of our criminaljustice system that is quite outstanding. that machinery exists. criminal cases review commission, they can solve this problem in a way that delivers realjustice to these

individuals and in a way that