a former post office investigator has been giving evidence to the post office public inquiry in the uk. stephen bradshaw was involved in the criminal investigation of nine sub—postmasters. the iranian navy says it is behind the seizure of an oil tanker in the gulf of oman. armed masked men boarded the st nikolas. state media say, it follows a court order authorising the move. more on all of that here in a moment first let's head to the bbc sport center. hello from the bbc sport centre. ireland head coach andy farrell will lead the british and irish lions when they tour australia in 2025. farrell is named as head coach of the lions for the first time having served as assistant to warren gatland when they triumphed in australia in 2013 and again in new zealand four years later. farrell has just signed a new contract to be in

charge of ireland until the next world cup in 2027... but will miss next year's six nations to concentrate on his work with the lions. to be thought of as a candidate for the head coach is pretty special to be chosen. it's pretty magical. in 2013i wasn't enjoying it that much. itjust lit 2013i wasn't enjoying it that much. it just lit something 2013i wasn't enjoying it that much. itjust lit something within me that said to me i need to make sure that i get back on this in four years�* time again. so to miss out on the covid in south africa was hard. but at the same time now to be able to get to this point is extra special. former england manager sven goran—eriksson has revealed he has at best a year to live after being diagnosed with cancer. eriksson was the first foreign coach to manage england. reaching the quarterfinals of the world cups in 2002 and 2006, and the euros in between. he was most recently working at swedish

club klaastad before stepping down 11 months ago. eriksson says he will "fight for as long as possible". i have cancer where you can�*t operate. and you have to try to slow it down as much as possible. that is what i�*m doing. when you get a message like that i think you appreciate every day and you are happy when you wake up in the morning and you�*re feeling okay. so that�*s what i�*m doing. collin graves has apologised to anyone who faced any form of york shire as he prepares to come to the chairman for a second time. the clubs members now voting to decide whether to do the same. graves previous time as yorkshire chairman, part of the time for which the club was for failure to address of which he previously denied knowledge for the better claim that graves returned with

undermine the progress yorkshire has made since the original allegations made since the original allegations made by the former player i seen rafik. ,, ., , ., , rafik. struggling, to be honest. stru: calin rafik. struggling, to be honest. struggling to — rafik. struggling, to be honest. struggling to understand - rafik. struggling, to be honest. struggling to understand it's - rafik. struggling, to be honest. struggling to understand it's a l struggling to understand it�*s a epidemics of emotion. a lot of angen epidemics of emotion. a lot of anger. my first was something i took anger. my first was something i took a lot of pride in. and that�*s well and truly gone. there�*s no part of me that is not anymore. after 2a seasons bill belichick is leaving the new england patriots. the team with which he won six super bowl titles alongside tom brady. depsite his historic success with the franchise. they lost 13 of their 17 regular season games in 2023, finishing bottom of their division. and handing belichick his worst ever win—loss record for a season. since brady left. the patriots have only reached the playoffs once. belichick is 71, but he�*s only 14 behind the legendary don shula in all time nfl victories and could continue

his career elsewhere. ronnie o�*sullivan is through to the semi—finals of the masters for the fifteenth time after beating barry hawkins. it was a scrappy match at alexandra palace in london with both players making mistakes. this miss by hawkins when he was 50 points ahead in the ninth frame cost him dear as o�*sullivan cleared the table to win by six frames to three. the seven time champion will face shaun murphy orjack lisowski on saturday. more snooker on the bbc website at 7pm and sportsday at six. that�*s all for now. let�*s return to the story that is dominated the headlines for days without let�*s return to the story that is dominated the headlines for without yesterday we heard how the government planned to right the wrongs of the post office horizon it scandal — and the damage it caused to the lives of hundreds of innocent people. today the inquiry into the scandal has taken centre stage — with one of the post office

investigators who helped bring prosecutions giving evidence. stephen bradshaw became part of the investigations team in 2000 — when the issues with the it programme were first becoming apparent. he told the inquiry that he became aware of media reports about the problems by 2010 — but said he was �*not technically minded. he also said that a letter, which he signed in 2012, which declared that the post office had �*absolute confidence�* in the software — was written by lawyers, not him. and here�*s what he had to say — about the way he carried out, one interview was called into question. it stop summarising and goes into the actual word spoken. it it stop summarising and goes into the actual word spoken.— it stop summarising and goes into the actual word spoken. it says what ou like to the actual word spoken. it says what you like to tell— the actual word spoken. it says what you like to tell me _ the actual word spoken. it says what you like to tell me what _ the actual word spoken. it says what| you like to tell me what happened to the money? she says i don�*t know where the money is, i told you. and you say you told me a pack of lies. she says no, i haven�*t told you a pack of lies. because i haven�*t stolen apparently again, concentrating on words used in an

interview, pack of lies. sounds somewhat like language you might see in eight 1970s television detective show. was pack of lies something that... to show. was pack of lies something that... ., _ show. was pack of lies something that... ., �*, ., ., . that... to say... it's not a nice interview _ that... to say... it's not a nice interview. normally _ that... to say... it's not a nice interview. normally before - that... to say... it's not a nice| interview. normally before any interview — interview. normally before any interview the majority of times i speak— interview the majority of times i speak to — interview the majority of times i speak to people and say to them, it's not_ speak to people and say to them, it's not the — speak to people and say to them, it's not the questions asked because you won'i_ it's not the questions asked because you won't like the questions. it's a criminal_ you won't like the questions. it's a criminal interview in accordance with_ criminal interview in accordance with the — criminal interview in accordance with the police.— with the police. you have no difficulty _ with the police. you have no difficulty with _ with the police. you have no difficulty with using - with the police. you have no difficulty with using those i with the police. you have no - difficulty with using those words? it went through the court system afterward — it went through the court system afterward and nothing was picked up lty afterward and nothing was picked up by a defence team to say that it was oppressive _ by a defence team to say that it was oppressive or aggressive. so because the defendants _ oppressive or aggressive. so because the defendants didn't _ oppressive or aggressive. so because the defendants didn't say _ oppressive or aggressive. so because the defendants didn't say that - oppressive or aggressive. so because the defendants didn't say that it - the defendants didn�*t say that it was oppressive you think that it is therefore appropriate language to

use in an interview? this i therefore appropriate language to use in an interview?— use in an interview? as i say, it's a difficult — use in an interview? as i say, it's a difficult interview. _ use in an interview? as i say, it's a difficult interview. just one - a difficult interview. just one extra, a difficult interview. just one extra. some _ a difficult interview. just one extra, some of _ a difficult interview. just one extra, some of the - a difficult interview. just one | extra, some of the exchanges a difficult interview. just one - extra, some of the exchanges from the inquiry today. let�*s hear now from three people who were caught up in the post office scandal. seema misra was pregnant with her second child when she was convicted of theft and send to prison in 2010. tracey merritt was dismissed for �*inappropriate use of funds�* — although charges of theft which were brought against her were dropped. and mark kelly was a subpostmaster who lost his business after being suspended during a post office investigation. he�*s here with his therapy dog. thank you all for being here in the studio with me. we will come to some of the evidence we heard earlier a little later. i want to start by hearing your stories. start by telling our audience what happened to you.

telling our audience what happened to ou. ~ ., ., ~ telling our audience what happened to ou. ~ ., to you. when i took over the post office in june _ to you. when i took over the post office in june 2005 _ to you. when i took over the post office in june 2005 already - to you. when i took over the post office in june 2005 already first . office in june 2005 already first day there was an issue and carried on in 2008 i was suspended and in december 2000 i was called to the court for the first time the trial because it pleaded not guilty for the theft charges for that should i when i have it done any crime? the jury when i have it done any crime? the jury came back with the word guilty and in october we lost the case. and in november on my eldest son�*s tenth birthday and me being pregnant i was sentenced for two months. that birthday and me being pregnant i was sentenced for two months.— sentenced for two months. that is incredible- — sentenced for two months. that is incredible- i _ sentenced for two months. that is incredible. iwill_ sentenced for two months. that is incredible. i will come _ sentenced for two months. that is incredible. i will come back- sentenced for two months. that is incredible. i will come back to - sentenced for two months. that is incredible. i will come back to the | incredible. i will come back to the impact it had on you for that mark, tell me what happened to you. in w; tell me what happened to you. in my case i had tell me what happened to you. in my case i had an — tell me what happened to you. in my case i had an armed _ tell me what happened to you. in my case i had an armed robbery - tell me what happened to you. in my case i had an armed robbery in - tell me what happened to you. in my case i had an armed robbery in 2004, which _ case i had an armed robbery in 2004, which the _ case i had an armed robbery in 2004, which the post office wanted me to pay the _ which the post office wanted me to pay the shortfall for the data generated. even though a person was caught— generated. even though a person was caught at— generated. even though a person was caught at the armed robbery. in the system _ caught at the armed robbery. in the system the — caught at the armed robbery. in the

system the following day made eight —£2000 shortfall. so in 2006 i found a problem _ —£2000 shortfall. so in 2006 i found a problem with horizon which i reported — a problem with horizon which i reported to the post office they didn't— reported to the post office they didn't really take it seriously. and then i_ didn't really take it seriously. and then i had — didn't really take it seriously. and then i had a — didn't really take it seriously. and then i had a shortfall materialise injuly_ then i had a shortfall materialise injuly 2006 and then i had a shortfall materialise in july 2006 and i was then suspended. and they threatened. my personal business was going fine until they— personal business was going fine until they brought— personal business was going fine until they brought in— personal business was going fine until they brought in the - personal business was going fine until they brought in the new. until they brought in the new horizon — until they brought in the new horizon system. _ until they brought in the new horizon system. the - until they brought in the new horizon system. the trainerl until they brought in the new- horizon system. the trainer came in, she had _ horizon system. the trainer came in, she had done — horizon system. the trainer came in, she had done an _ horizon system. the trainer came in, she had done an audit— horizon system. the trainer came in, she had done an audit the _ horizon system. the trainer came in, she had done an audit the night- she had done an audit the night before — she had done an audit the night before i— she had done an audit the night before iwas _ she had done an audit the night before. i was 55p _ she had done an audit the night before. i was 55p over, - she had done an audit the night before. i was 55p over, which . she had done an audit the night. before. i was 55p over, which was -et before. i was 55p over, which was get a _ before. i was 55p over, which was get a rollover _ before. i was 55p over, which was get a rollover to _ before. i was 55p over, which was get a rollover to the _ before. i was 55p over, which was get a rollover to the next - before. i was 55p over, which was get a rollover to the next day. - before. i was 55p over, which was i get a rollover to the next day. when she came _ get a rollover to the next day. when she came in — get a rollover to the next day. when she came in the _ get a rollover to the next day. when she came in the next _ get a rollover to the next day. when she came in the next day and - get a rollover to the next day. when she came in the next day and put. she came in the next day and put me onto the _ she came in the next day and put me onto the new— she came in the next day and put me onto the new system _ she came in the next day and put me onto the new system it showed - she came in the next day and put me onto the new system it showed up i onto the new system it showed up £1000 _ onto the new system it showed up £1000 missing _ onto the new system it showed up £1000 missing. she— onto the new system it showed up £1000 missing. she left— onto the new system it showed up £1000 missing. she left within - onto the new system it showed up| £1000 missing. she left within ten minutes— £1000 missing. she left within ten minutes and — £1000 missing. she left within ten minutes and said _ £1000 missing. she left within ten minutes and said from _ £1000 missing. she left within ten minutes and said from the - £1000 missing. she left within ten| minutes and said from the helpline that evening — minutes and said from the helpline that evening i_ minutes and said from the helpline that evening i phoned _ minutes and said from the helpline that evening i phoned the - that evening i phoned the health helpline — that evening i phoned the health helpline they— that evening i phoned the health helpline. they can _ that evening i phoned the health helpline. they can put _ that evening i phoned the health helpline. they can put the - that evening i phoned the health| helpline. they can put the phone down _ helpline. they can put the phone down because _

helpline. they can put the phone down because i— helpline. they can put the phone down because i was— helpline. they can put the phone down because i was busy. - helpline. they can put the phone down because i was busy. it - helpline. they can put the phone| down because i was busy. it went helpline. they can put the phone - down because i was busy. it went up to £2000 _ down because i was busy. it went up to 52000 a— down because i was busy. it went up to £2000. a couple _ down because i was busy. it went up to £2000. a couple weeks _ down because i was busy. it went up to £2000. a couple weeks later - down because i was busy. it went up| to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to _ to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to be _ to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to be will— to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to be, will be _ to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to be, will be very— to £2000. a couple weeks later they said to be, will be very generous, i said to be, will be very generous, will it— said to be, will be very generous, will it be — said to be, will be very generous, will it be payback _ said to be, will be very generous, will it be payback out _ said to be, will be very generous, will it be payback out your- said to be, will be very generous, will it be payback out your wagesl will it be payback out your wages and will — will it be payback out your wages and will let — will it be payback out your wages and will let you _ will it be payback out your wages and will let you carry— will it be payback out your wages and will let you carry on - will it be payback out your wages and will let you carry on in the i and will let you carry on in the post— and will let you carry on in the post office _ and will let you carry on in the post office. this _ and will let you carry on in the post office. this is _ and will let you carry on in the post office. this is a generousj post office. this is a generous offer~ — post office. this is a generous offer~ then _ post office. this is a generous offer. then they— post office. this is a generous offer. then they came - post office. this is a generous offer. then they came out i post office. this is a generous offer. then they came out in i offer. then they came out in november— offer. then they came out in november 2010 _ offer. then they came out in november 2010 and - offer. then they came out in november 2010 and they i offer. then they came out in i november 2010 and they offered offer. then they came out in - november 2010 and they offered me a second _ november 2010 and they offered me a second post _ november 2010 and they offered me a second post office, _ november 2010 and they offered me a second post office, which _ november 2010 and they offered me a second post office, which i— november 2010 and they offered me a second post office, which i took. - november 2010 and they offered me a second post office, which i took. so i second post office, which i took. so i second post office, which i took. so i was _ second post office, which i took. so i was running — second post office, which i took. so i was running too. _ second post office, which i took. so i was running too. that _ second post office, which i took. so i was running too. that was - second post office, which i took. so i was running too. that was set i i was running too. that was set up really— i was running too. that was set up really badly — i was running too. that was set up really badly. from _ i was running too. that was set up really badly. from the _ i was running too. that was set up really badly. from the word - i was running too. that was set up really badly. from the word go i i i was running too. that was set up l really badly. from the word go i had major— really badly. from the word go i had major problems _ really badly. from the word go i had major problems with _ really badly. from the word go i had major problems with that _ really badly. from the word go i had major problems with that post - really badly. from the word go i had major problems with that post office and then— major problems with that post office and then my— major problems with that post office and then my main _ major problems with that post office and then my main post— major problems with that post office and then my main post office - and then my main post office continued _ and then my main post office continued i_ and then my main post office continued. i was _ and then my main post office continued. i was putting i and then my main post office i continued. i was putting money in weekly, _ continued. i was putting money in weekly. monthly— continued. i was putting money in weekly, monthly until— continued. i was putting money in weekly, monthly until i— continued. i was putting money in weekly, monthly until ijust - continued. i was putting money in weekly, monthly until ijust ran. continued. i was putting money in. weekly, monthly until ijust ran out of money — weekly, monthly until ijust ran out of money i— weekly, monthly until ijust ran out of money i kept_ weekly, monthly until ijust ran out of money. i kept phoning _ weekly, monthly until ijust ran out of money. i kept phoning the - weekly, monthly until ijust ran outi of money. i kept phoning the health line every— of money. i kept phoning the health line every time _ of money. i kept phoning the health line every time they tell— of money. i kept phoning the health line every time they tell me - of money. i kept phoning the health line every time they tell me to i line every time they tell me to press — line every time they tell me to press buttons— line every time they tell me to press buttons which _ line every time they tell me to press buttons which doubled l line every time they tell me to l press buttons which doubled the amount— press buttons which doubled the amount for— press buttons which doubled the amount for the _ press buttons which doubled the amount for the you _ press buttons which doubled the amount for the you talk - press buttons which doubled the amount for the you talk about i press buttons which doubled the. amount for the you talk about the helpline _ amount for the you talk about the helpline for — amount for the you talk about the helpline for the _ amount for the you talk about the helpline for the pie _ amount for the you talk about the helpline for the pie was _ amount for the you talk about the helpline for the pie was listening i helpline for the pie was listening to once — helpline for the pie was listening to once a — helpline for the pie was listening to once a postmaster— helpline for the pie was listening to once a postmaster who - helpline for the pie was listening to once a postmaster who was i to once a postmaster who was describing — to once a postmaster who was describing when _ to once a postmaster who was describing when they- to once a postmaster who was describing when they found i to once a postmaster who was i describing when they found that helpline — describing when they found that helpline they— describing when they found that helpline they thought _ describing when they found that| helpline they thought somebody

describing when they found that - helpline they thought somebody would actually _ helpline they thought somebody would actually help _ helpline they thought somebody would actually help them _ helpline they thought somebody would actually help them and _ helpline they thought somebody would actually help them and actually- helpline they thought somebody would actually help them and actually try i actually help them and actually try to unravel— actually help them and actually try to unravel what _ actually help them and actually try to unravel what was _ actually help them and actually try to unravel what was going - actually help them and actually try to unravel what was going on i actually help them and actually try to unravel what was going on and i to unravel what was going on and described — to unravel what was going on and described how— to unravel what was going on and described how instead _ to unravel what was going on and described how instead they - to unravel what was going on and l described how instead they simply assumed _ described how instead they simply assumed that _ described how instead they simply assumed that she _ described how instead they simply assumed that she was _ described how instead they simply assumed that she was a _ described how instead they simply assumed that she was a thief. i described how instead they simplyj assumed that she was a thief. just ex - lain assumed that she was a thief. just explain how _ assumed that she was a thief. explain how you treated? when assumed that she was a thief.- explain how you treated? when you phoned was a ready help? trio. explain how you treated? when you phoned was a ready help? ida. i phoned was a ready help? no. i thou~ht phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it _ phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it was _ phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it was hell, _ phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it was hell, they - phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it was hell, they say i phoned was a ready help? no. i thought it was hell, they say press this button— thought it was hell, they say press this button press— thought it was hell, they say press this button press that _ thought it was hell, they say press this button press that button. i- this button press that button. i kept _ this button press that button. i kept saying _ this button press that button. i kept saying but _ this button press that button. i kept saying but it _ this button press that button. i kept saying but it is _ this button press that button. i kept saying but it is doubling. i this button press that button. i. kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought— kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought help _ kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought help i_ kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought help. i said, _ kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought help. i said, how- kept saying but it is doubling. —— i thought help. i said, how do i- kept saying but it is doubling. —— i. thought help. i said, how do i catch up thought help. i said, how do i catch up at _ thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the _ thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end — thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end of— thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end of the _ thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end of the day? _ thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end of the day? they i thought help. i said, how do i catch up at the end of the day? they saidj up at the end of the day? they said 'ust up at the end of the day? they said just ignore — up at the end of the day? they said just ignore it. — up at the end of the day? they said just ignore it, carry— up at the end of the day? they said just ignore it, carry on _ up at the end of the day? they said just ignore it, carry on as _ just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way— just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way while _ just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way while i_ just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way while i didn't _ just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way while i didn't realise i just ignore it, carry on as normal. in a way while i didn't realise at l in a way while i didn't realise at the time — in a way while i didn't realise at the time they— in a way while i didn't realise at the time they were _ in a way while i didn't realise at the time they were telling i in a way while i didn't realise at the time they were telling me l in a way while i didn't realise atl the time they were telling me to false _ the time they were telling me to false account. _ the time they were telling me to false account. by— the time they were telling me to false account. by september- the time they were telling me to false account. by september the auditors— false account. by september the auditors came _ false account. by september the auditors came out _ false account. by september the auditors came out and _ false account. by september the auditors came out and i- false account. by september the auditors came out and i was i false account. by september the| auditors came out and i was shot false account. by september the i auditors came out and i was shot in my office _ auditors came out and i was shot in my office from _ auditors came out and i was shot in my office from half _ auditors came out and i was shot in my office from half past _ auditors came out and i was shot in my office from half past eight in i my office from half past eight in the morning _ my office from half past eight in the morning till— my office from half past eight in the morning till half _ my office from half past eight in the morning till half past - my office from half past eight in the morning till half past five. . the morning till half past five. when — the morning till half past five. when the _ the morning till half past five. when the amount _ the morning till half past five. when the amount went - the morning till half past five. when the amount went up i the morning till half past five. _ when the amount went up phenomenal. and they— when the amount went up phenomenal. and they wrote — when the amount went up phenomenal. and they wrote out— when the amount went up phenomenal. and they wrote out a _ when the amount went up phenomenal. and they wrote out a confession - when the amount went up phenomenal. and they wrote out a confession for i and they wrote out a confession for me to _ and they wrote out a confession for me to read — and they wrote out a confession for me to read to— and they wrote out a confession for me to read to my— and they wrote out a confession for me to read to my contract - and they wrote out a confession for me to read to my contract managerj me to read to my contract manager for the — me to read to my contract manager for the they— me to read to my contract manager for the they rode _ me to read to my contract manager for the they rode it _ me to read to my contract manager for the they rode it out? _

me to read to my contract manager for the they rode it out? otherwise | for the they rode it out? otherwise i for the they rode it out? otherwise iwasn't _ for the they rode it out? otherwise iwasn't going _ for the they rode it out? otherwise i wasn't going home. _ for the they rode it out? otherwise i wasn't going home. you - for the they rode it out? otherwise i wasn't going home. you got- for the they rode it out? otherwise i wasn't going home. you got to i i wasn't going home. you got to remember, _ i wasn't going home. you got to remember, i_ i wasn't going home. you got to remember, i was _ i wasn't going home. you got to remember, i was in _ iwasn't going home. you got to remember, i was in an- i wasn't going home. you got to remember, i was in an office i i wasn't going home. you got to. remember, i was in an office with all the _ remember, i was in an office with all the blinds— remember, i was in an office with all the blinds turned _ remember, i was in an office with all the blinds turned out - remember, i was in an office with all the blinds turned out photo. all the blinds turned out photo i thought— all the blinds turned out photo i thought nobody— all the blinds turned out photo i thought nobody but _ all the blinds turned out photo i thought nobody but these - all the blinds turned out photo i thought nobody but these two l all the blinds turned out photo i. thought nobody but these two men all the blinds turned out photo i- thought nobody but these two men all daylong _ thought nobody but these two men all daylong it _ thought nobody but these two men all daylong it went _ thought nobody but these two men all day long. it went from _ thought nobody but these two men all day long. it went from there. - thought nobody but these two men all day long. it went from there.- day long. it went from there. seema, does that resonate? _ day long. it went from there. seema, does that resonate? when _ day long. it went from there. seema, does that resonate? when you i day long. it went from there. seema, does that resonate? when you are i does that resonate? when you are having those discussions and eventually they took you to court as you said but what was happening in those weeks? they must�*ve been incredibly stressful, those conversations you are having. flit conversations you are having. of course. my first auditor, since i took over in three months i sort of gave up. i said to the manager i can run like this, can you please get this sorted, i�*m putting money in every day. they ordered an auditor come in. they were like a bouncer, they come taller and bigger than me. after all the audit despite me putting in money every day they made a shortfalljust under 4000. they gave me the exact wording, so many post office they are doing fine it is just yours we have an issue with. this time they taken money out but any time you are £500 short we take

the post office away. and they locked out, i was scared for that i was like, wow.— was like, wow. i've heard that before when _ was like, wow. i've heard that before when people _ was like, wow. i've heard that before when people had i was like, wow. i've heard that before when people had been| was like, wow. i've heard that i before when people had been made was like, wow. i've heard that - before when people had been made to feel that they were totally on their own on this. and that�*s how they made you feel. no reference to the fact that this was cropping up and presumably hundreds of different locations? ., ., ., ., locations? no, nothing at all. even the second — locations? no, nothing at all. even the second auditor— locations? no, nothing at all. even the second auditor i _ locations? no, nothing at all. even the second auditor i told _ locations? no, nothing at all. even the second auditor i told him i locations? no, nothing at all. even the second auditor i told him in i the second auditor i told him in 2008, i cooperate with them, i said do you want to go in search of my house i said go ahead, i have nothing to hide. i didn�*t know that they were not supposed to. thea;r they were not supposed to. they missed used _ they were not supposed to. they missed used their _ they were not supposed to. they missed used their power. mark, the incredible thing you said when you spokein incredible thing you said when you spoke in the beginning was when you raise you thought there was a problem with horizon.- raise you thought there was a problem with horizon. going back in janua problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 _ problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 i _ problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 i found _ problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 i found a _ problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 i found a problem i problem with horizon. going back in january 2006 i found a problem in l january 2006 i found a problem in horizon _ january 2006 i found a problem in horizon with a smart post system. with it _ horizon with a smart post system. with it it _ horizon with a smart post system. with it it generated losses. when i try to _ with it it generated losses. when i try to raise — with it it generated losses. when i try to raise it with the post office they were — try to raise it with the post office they were not interested in fixing they were not interested in fixing

the problem. i kept on trying to get them _ the problem. i kept on trying to get them to— the problem. i kept on trying to get them to fix— the problem. i kept on trying to get them to fix the problem or tell the network about the problem. but it came _ network about the problem. but it came to _ network about the problem. but it came to a — network about the problem. but it came to a head and i said if you don't sorted out i'm going to publicise _ don't sorted out i'm going to publicise it. that's when i had a shortfall— publicise it. that's when i had a shortfall in _ publicise it. that's when i had a shortfall injuly. unto january publicise it. that's when i had a shortfall in july. unto january and july i _ shortfall in july. unto january and july i had — shortfall in july. unto january and july i had three audits the second audit— july i had three audits the second audit or— july i had three audits the second audit or the first of one of the to the person— audit or the first of one of the to the person was there day looking for something _ the person was there day looking for something for that he was on the phone _ something for that he was on the phone and — something for that he was on the phone and he said i can't find it, i can't _ phone and he said i can't find it, i can't it _ phone and he said i can't find it, i can't it in— phone and he said i can't find it, i can't it. in the end it was only £50 difference — can't it. in the end it was only £50 difference i— can't it. in the end it was only £50 difference. i then got interviewed at the _ difference. i then got interviewed at the police station on the 6th of august. with a solicitor, my wife -ot august. with a solicitor, my wife got a _ august. with a solicitor, my wife got a solicitor involved with at the federation of postmasters completely abandon— federation of postmasters completely abandon me, in fact they made me call him _ abandon me, in fact they made me call him up — abandon me, in fact they made me call him up and said you're on your own now — call him up and said you're on your own now at — call him up and said you're on your own now. at that interview i completely froze. the person who is

doing _ completely froze. the person who is doing the _ completely froze. the person who is doing the interview wanted to carry on and _ doing the interview wanted to carry on and say — doing the interview wanted to carry on and say, going forward if you don't _ on and say, going forward if you don't answer my questions i will assume — don't answer my questions i will assume you are saying yes. the solicitor— assume you are saying yes. the solicitor said that's not good enough _ solicitor said that's not good enough. it got paused and then january— enough. it got paused and then january 2007 i had a second interview. in that interview, at the end of— interview. in that interview, at the end of the — interview. in that interview, at the end of the interview because i wouldn't — end of the interview because i wouldn't accept the loss he then said, _ wouldn't accept the loss he then said. if— wouldn't accept the loss he then said. if you _ wouldn't accept the loss he then said, if you don't plead guilty we will put — said, if you don't plead guilty we will put the charges on your wife who is— will put the charges on your wife who is on— will put the charges on your wife who is on an immigration visa at the time _ who is on an immigration visa at the time and _ who is on an immigration visa at the time and so — who is on an immigration visa at the time and so we will get her deported. and for myself they would charge _ deported. and for myself they would charge be _ deported. and for myself they would charge be with the secrets act. you think the charge be with the secrets act. gm, think the charges were dropped in the end because you were raising the issue that you thought there was a glitch. i want to go back to seema because you mentioned what it was like when that word guilty came through. i want to talk to all of you about the colossal impacts. what was that like? x�*t�*ou

you about the colossal impacts. what was that like?— was that like? you are present but ou are was that like? you are present but you are sent _ was that like? you are present but you are sent to — was that like? you are present but you are sent to prison. _ was that like? you are present but you are sent to prison. yeah. in i you are sent to prison. yeah. in november 2010| had faith in the system. i thought i haven�*t said anything wrong, nothing will happen to me. i will be sent to prison or anything for... never came. when the judge gave the word 15 months imprisonment, i was shocked. i collapse. i had opened my eyes and i was in the hospital. so from there on i lost my faith in the system. i said if this can happen to me anything is possible in this country. anything is possible in this count . ., anything is possible in this count. ., country. tracy, i assume that sort of emotion. — country. tracy, i assume that sort of emotion, those _ country. tracy, i assume that sort of emotion, those feelings - country. tracy, i assume that sort| of emotion, those feelings exactly the same. i know that subsequent use suffered from ptsd. yes. the same. i know that subsequent use suffered from ptsd.— suffered from ptsd. yes, i've got other health _ suffered from ptsd. yes, i've got other health issues _ suffered from ptsd. yes, i've got other health issues as _ suffered from ptsd. yes, i've got other health issues as well. i i other health issues as well. i wasn't — other health issues as well. i wasn't prosecuted. _ other health issues as well. i wasn't prosecuted. they- other health issues as well. i i wasn't prosecuted. they went other health issues as well. i. wasn't prosecuted. they went to court. _ wasn't prosecuted. they went to court. they— wasn't prosecuted. they went to court, they forgot _ wasn't prosecuted. they went to court, they forgot to _ wasn't prosecuted. they went to court, they forgot to tell- wasn't prosecuted. they went to court, they forgot to tell me - wasn't prosecuted. they went to court, they forgot to tell me or. wasn't prosecuted. they went to . court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor_ court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i_ court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i was _ court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i was meant _ court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i was meant to _ court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i was meant to be - court, they forgot to tell me or my solicitor i was meant to be a court| solicitor i was meant to be a court solicitor i was meant to be a court so they— solicitor i was meant to be a court so they couldn't _ solicitor i was meant to be a court so they couldn't follow _ solicitor i was meant to be a court so they couldn't follow it - solicitor i was meant to be a court so they couldn't follow it through. i so they couldn't follow it through. they let _ so they couldn't follow it through. they let all — so they couldn't follow it through. they let all the _ so they couldn't follow it through. they let all the media _ so they couldn't follow it through. they let all the media know - so they couldn't follow it through. they let all the media know that i| they let all the media know that i had found — they let all the media know that i

had found out _ they let all the media know that i had found out i— they let all the media know that i had found out i have _ they let all the media know that i had found out i have five - had found out i have five charges against _ had found out i have five charges against me — had found out i have five charges against me by— had found out i have five charges against me by the _ had found out i have five charges against me by the front - had found out i have five charges against me by the front page of. had found out i have five charges�* against me by the front page of a newspapen — against me by the front page of a newspaper. thal— against me by the front page of a newspaper. that is— against me by the front page of a newspaper. that is how- against me by the front page of a newspaper. that is how i - against me by the front page of a newspaper. that is how i find - against me by the front page of a newspaper. that is how i find out for that _ newspaper. that is how i find out for that that _ newspaper. that is how i find out for that that was _ newspaper. that is how i find out for that that was horrendous. - newspaper. that is how i find out| for that that was horrendous. you newspaper. that is how i find out. for that that was horrendous. you go from being _ for that that was horrendous. you go from being knowing _ for that that was horrendous. you go from being knowing where _ for that that was horrendous. you go from being knowing where your - for that that was horrendous. you go from being knowing where your life i from being knowing where your life is an enjoying — from being knowing where your life is an enjoying life _ from being knowing where your life is an enjoying life and _ from being knowing where your life is an enjoying life and being - from being knowing where your life is an enjoying life and being part i is an enjoying life and being part of the _ is an enjoying life and being part of the community— is an enjoying life and being part of the community and _ is an enjoying life and being part| of the community and everything is an enjoying life and being part. of the community and everything to being _ of the community and everything to being an _ of the community and everything to being an outsider— of the community and everything to being an outsider for— of the community and everything to being an outsider for that _ of the community and everything to being an outsider for that year- of the community and everything to being an outsider for that year spat| being an outsider for that year spat at, being an outsider for that year spat at. you _ being an outsider for that year spat at. you are — being an outsider for that year spat at, you are called _ being an outsider for that year spat at, you are called names, - being an outsider for that year spat at, you are called names, you - being an outsider for that year spat at, you are called names, you justl at, you are called names, you just can't _ at, you are called names, you just can't describe _ at, you are called names, you just can't describe it. _ at, you are called names, you just can't describe it. i— at, you are called names, you just can't describe it. i had _ at, you are called names, you just can't describe it. i had my- can't describe it. i had my investigator, _ can't describe it. i had my investigator, because - can't describe it. i had my investigator, because my| can't describe it. i had my- investigator, because my daughter worked _ investigator, because my daughter worked for— investigator, because my daughter worked for me _ investigator, because my daughter worked for me he _ investigator, because my daughter worked for me he banned - investigator, because my daughter worked for me he banned me - investigator, because my daughter worked for me he banned me from having _ worked for me he banned me from having any— worked for me he banned me from having any communication - worked for me he banned me from having any communication with - worked for me he banned me fromj having any communication with my daughter— having any communication with my daughter for— having any communication with my daughter for 18 _ having any communication with my daughter for 18 months. _ having any communication with my daughter for 18 months. with - having any communication with my daughter for 18 months. with your| daughter for 18 months. with your daughter? — daughter for 18 months. with your daughter? i— daughter for 18 months. with your daughter? i couldn't _ daughter for 18 months. with your daughter? i couldn't even - daughter for 18 months. with your daughter? i couldn't even send i daughter for 18 months. with youri daughter? i couldn't even send her daughter for 18 months. with your. daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas _ daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas card _ daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas card. it _ daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas card. it was _ daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas card. it was like _ daughter? i couldn't even send her a christmas card. it was like a - christmas card. it was like a lroulder_ christmas card. it was like a boulder coming _ christmas card. it was like a boulder coming into - christmas card. it was like a boulder coming into my- christmas card. it was like a i boulder coming into my home christmas card. it was like a - boulder coming into my home and christmas card. it was like a _ boulder coming into my home and just destroying _ boulder coming into my home and just destroying my— boulder coming into my home and just destroying my house. _ boulder coming into my home and just destroying my house. destroying - boulder coming into my home and just destroying my house. destroying my. destroying my house. destroying my family _ destroying my house. destroying my famil . ~ destroying my house. destroying my famil. ,, ., destroying my house. destroying my famil . ,, ., family. mark, i read somewhere because you've _ family. mark, i read somewhere because you've done _ family. mark, i read somewhere because you've done several- because you've done several interviews but for a while or a long while you blamed yourself, didn't you? while you blamed yourself, didn't ou? , , , ., . you? yes because i thought at the time if that _ you? yes because i thought at the time if that solicitor, _ you? yes because i thought at the time if that solicitor, i _ you? yes because i thought at the time if that solicitor, i think -

you? yes because i thought at the time if that solicitor, i think was i time if that solicitor, i think was 'ust time if that solicitor, i think was just at— time if that solicitor, i think was just at a — time if that solicitor, i think was just at a university, i thought he made _ just at a university, i thought he made a — just at a university, i thought he made a deal not for it to go any further — made a deal not for it to go any further i— made a deal not for it to go any further. i thought that if she took it forward, — further. i thought that if she took it forward, go to court then it was proven— it forward, go to court then it was proven faulty because that evidence would be _ proven faulty because that evidence would be in the public domain. thihgs— would be in the public domain. things like seema's would happen. goihg _ things like seema's would happen. going after that in 2011that's what i going after that in 2011that's what i started _ going after that in 2011that's what i started to become very depressed and anxiety and thinking that i've caused _ and anxiety and thinking that i've caused a — and anxiety and thinking that i've caused a lot of problems. | and anxiety and thinking that i've caused a lot of problems. i want to come to what _ caused a lot of problems. i want to come to what we've _ caused a lot of problems. i want to come to what we've seen - caused a lot of problems. i want to come to what we've seen over- caused a lot of problems. i want to come to what we've seen over the | come to what we've seen over the last 48 hours which is been an incredible 48 hours. and the new legislation being brought potentially to clear peoples names. in terms of the difference something like that would make just describe what you heard the conviction would be overturned, how much of a

difference will that make? i’m difference will that make? i'm really happy — difference will that make? i�*rn really happy the government difference will that make? in really happy the government started to step in now and take action for that it to step in now and take action for thatitis to step in now and take action for that it is really good photo one think i will is say, making an announcement is wanting and taking action something else. we need to get this sorted as soon as possible. it's good to make an announcement but they need act on it soon as well. ., , , , well. the other issue is compensation. - well. the other issue is compensation. i - well. the other issue is compensation. i know. well. the other issue is - compensation. i know there are different ways of getting compensation. tracy, for you where are you on that? i compensation. tracy, for you where are you on that?— are you on that? i filled in the forms to _ are you on that? i filled in the forms to go — are you on that? i filled in the forms to go on _ are you on that? i filled in the forms to go on the _ are you on that? i filled in the i forms to go on the compensation scheme _ forms to go on the compensation scheme lrack— forms to go on the compensation scheme back in— forms to go on the compensation scheme back in april. _ forms to go on the compensation scheme back in april. i— forms to go on the compensation scheme back in april. i had, - forms to go on the compensation scheme back in april. i had, i'vel scheme back in april. i had, i've done _ scheme back in april. i had, i've done everything _ scheme back in april. i had, i've done everything they've - scheme back in april. i had, i've done everything they've asked l scheme back in april. i had, i'vel done everything they've asked of scheme back in april. i had, i've - done everything they've asked of me for that— done everything they've asked of me for that i_ done everything they've asked of me for that l have — done everything they've asked of me for that i have my— done everything they've asked of me for that i have my psychiatric- for that i have my psychiatric report— for that i have my psychiatric report dohe~ _ for that i have my psychiatric report done. we _ for that i have my psychiatric report done. we put - for that i have my psychiatric report done. we put in - for that i have my psychiatric report done. we put in in - for that i have my psychiatric. report done. we put in in april for my personal— report done. we put in in april for my personal file _ report done. we put in in april for my personal file to _ report done. we put in in april for my personal file to be _ report done. we put in in april for my personal file to be released i report done. we put in in april forj my personal file to be released by the post— my personal file to be released by the post office _ my personal file to be released by the post office because _ my personal file to be released by the post office because you need i the post office because you need that to _ the post office because you need that to go — the post office because you need that to go forward. _ the post office because you need that to go forward. as _ the post office because you need that to go forward. as of- the post office because you need i that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting — that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting for— that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting for that _ that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting for that for _ that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting for that for that - that to go forward. as of today i'm still waiting for that for that they l still waiting for that for that they are holding — still waiting for that for that they are holding it _ still waiting for that for that they are holding it back— still waiting for that for that they are holding it back my personal. are holding it back my personal lrelief— are holding it back my personal belief is— are holding it back my personal belief is that _ are holding it back my personal belief is that going _ are holding it back my personal belief is that going to - are holding it back my personal belief is that going to hold - are holding it back my personal belief is that going to hold it i are holding it back my personal. belief is that going to hold it back until the — belief is that going to hold it back until the compensation— belief is that going to hold it back until the compensation timeline i belief is that going to hold it back. until the compensation timeline has

gone _ until the compensation timeline has one. . ' until the compensation timeline has one. . , , gone. there are different parts, 75,000, there's _ gone. there are different parts, 75,000, there's a _ gone. there are different parts, 75,000, there's a part - gone. there are different parts, 75,000, there's a part if - gone. there are different parts, 75,000, there's a part if you . gone. there are different parts, i 75,000, there's a part if you take it, 600,000. we know that you're entitled to. $5 it, 600,000. we know that you're entitled to-— it, 600,000. we know that you're entitled to— it, 600,000. we know that you're entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75.000 — entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75,000 take _ entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75,000 take it _ entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75,000 take it or— entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75,000 take it or leave - entitled to. as far as i'm aware i'm in the 75,000 take it or leave it. . in the 75,000 take it or leave it. does _ in the 75,000 take it or leave it. does that— in the 75,000 take it or leave it. does that remotely... _ in the 75,000 take it or leave it. does that remotely... no, no. . in the 75,000 take it or leave it. does that remotely... no, no. ii does that remotely... no, no. i thought— does that remotely... no, no. i thought what _ does that remotely... no, no. i thought what we _ does that remotely... no, no. i thought what we want - does that remotely... no, no. i thought what we want a - does that remotely... no, no. i thought what we want a court . does that remotely... no, no. i. thought what we want a court case does that remotely... no, no. i- thought what we want a court case in 2019 that _ thought what we want a court case in 2019 that thism _ thought what we want a court case in 2019 that this... we _ thought what we want a court case in 2019 that this... we were _ thought what we want a court case in 2019 that this... we were promised i 2019 that this... we were promised so much _ 2019 that this... we were promised so much and — 2019 that this... we were promised so much and got _ 2019 that this... we were promised so much and got nothing. _ 2019 that this... we were promised so much and got nothing. the - so much and got nothing. the government— so much and got nothing. the government promised - so much and got nothing. the government promised to - so much and got nothing. the government promised to payi so much and got nothing. the - government promised to pay back all our legal— government promised to pay back all our legal fees. — government promised to pay back all our legal fees, we _ government promised to pay back all our legal fees, we haven't— government promised to pay back all our legal fees, we haven't seen- government promised to pay back all our legal fees, we haven't seen a - our legal fees, we haven't seen a penny _ our legal fees, we haven't seen a penny l'm — our legal fees, we haven't seen a penny. i'm so— our legal fees, we haven't seen a penny. i'm so sceptical— our legal fees, we haven't seen a penny. i'm so sceptical because i our legal fees, we haven't seen a . penny. i'm so sceptical because they do make _ penny. i'm so sceptical because they do make promises— penny. i'm so sceptical because they do make promises because - penny. i'm so sceptical because they do make promises because they- penny. i'm so sceptical because theyi do make promises because they want the public— do make promises because they want the public to— do make promises because they want the public to think _ do make promises because they want the public to think they— do make promises because they want the public to think they are _ do make promises because they want the public to think they are the - the public to think they are the good _ the public to think they are the good guys _ the public to think they are the good guys. afterwards- the public to think they are the good guys. afterwards they - the public to think they are the | good guys. afterwards they put the public to think they are the i good guys. afterwards they put in the small— good guys. afterwards they put in the small print _ good guys. afterwards they put in the small print and _ good guys. afterwards they put in the small print and it's— good guys. afterwards they put in the small print and it's always - good guys. afterwards they put in the small print and it's always the small— the small print and it's always the small print — the small print and it's always the small print that _ the small print and it's always the small print that gets _ the small print and it's always the small print that gets us. - the small print and it's always the small print that gets us.— small print that gets us. mark, briefl in small print that gets us. mark, briefly in terms _ small print that gets us. mark, briefly in terms of _ small print that gets us. mark, | briefly in terms of compensation where you are? im briefly in terms of compensation where you are?— where you are? i'm the same as tra . where you are? i'm the same as tracy- l've _ where you are? i'm the same as tracy- i've given _ where you are? i'm the same as tracy. i've given my— where you are? i'm the same as tracy. i've given my medical- where you are? i'm the same as - tracy. i've given my medical records and had _ tracy. i've given my medical records and had the — tracy. i've given my medical records and had the mental report. but we haven't— and had the mental report. but we haven't had — and had the mental report. but we haven't had the other documents provided — haven't had the other documents

provided yet. one bit you said about over convictions, i think that's a good _ over convictions, i think that's a good idea — over convictions, i think that's a good idea because it's a unique situation — good idea because it's a unique situation for the put them on thing i do situation for the put them on thing i do have _ situation for the put them on thing i do have a — situation for the put them on thing i do have a slight issue with is those innocent forms. because the reason _ those innocent forms. because the reason behind it, it creates that within— reason behind it, it creates that within the — reason behind it, it creates that within the community that those postmasters might be guilty. i think they should get rid of that. yes. postmasters might be guilty. i think they should get rid of that.- they should get rid of that. yes. it has been raised _ they should get rid of that. yes. it has been raised by _ they should get rid of that. yes. it has been raised by others - they should get rid of that. yes. it has been raised by others who - they should get rid of that. yes. it i has been raised by others who were in a similar situation. seema, in terms of your compensation because you were convicted you can take 600,000 if you chooseju or go through a longer process. does that sort of figure remotely cover what you've been through over the years? nowhere near. i've received payment i'm still waiting for the full compensation. the 600 is nowhere near. compensation. the 600 is nowhere nean compensation. the 600 is nowhere near. , , ., near. let me briefly ask all three of ou near. let me briefly ask all three of you because — near. let me briefly ask all three of you because were _ near. let me briefly ask all three of you because were nearly - near. let me briefly ask all three of you because were nearly out i of you because were nearly out of time. in terms of still what has to run, the inquiry is still running,

accountability, what do you all want to see? tracy, you 1st. in accountability, what do you all want to see? tracy, you 1st.— to see? tracy, you 1st. in the inuui to see? tracy, you 1st. in the inquiry everybody _ to see? tracy, you 1st. in the inquiry everybody keeps - to see? tracy, you 1st. in the i inquiry everybody keeps saying to see? tracy, you 1st. in the - inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've _ inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've got — inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've got to _ inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've got to remember - inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've got to remember it - inquiry everybody keeps saying about what we've got to remember it keeps being _ what we've got to remember it keeps being delayed — what we've got to remember it keeps being delayed. the _ what we've got to remember it keeps being delayed. the reason— what we've got to remember it keeps being delayed. the reason why- what we've got to remember it keepsj being delayed. the reason why keeps bein- being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed — being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed is _ being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed is the _ being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed is the post— being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed is the post office - being delayed. the reason why keeps being delayed is the post office has . being delayed is the post office has still not _ being delayed is the post office has still not declaring _ being delayed is the post office has still not declaring their _ being delayed is the post office has still not declaring their documents. j still not declaring their documents. we heal— still not declaring their documents. we heal two — still not declaring their documents. we heal two still— still not declaring their documents. we heal two still have _ still not declaring their documents. we heal two still have disclosure . we heal two still have disclosure issues _ we heal two still have disclosure issues with — we heal two still have disclosure issues with it _ we heal two still have disclosure issues with it what _ we heal two still have disclosure issues with it what have - we heal two still have disclosure issues with it what have they - issues with it what have they learned? _ issues with it what have they learned? they _ issues with it what have they learned? they say— issues with it what have they learned? they say they've i issues with it what have they - learned? they say they've learned their lesson, — learned? they say they've learned their lesson, i— learned? they say they've learned their lesson, i can't _ learned? they say they've learned their lesson, i can't see _ learned? they say they've learned their lesson, i can't see it. - learned? they say they've learned their lesson, i can't see it. that. their lesson, i can't see it. that was raised _ their lesson, i can't see it. that was raised by — their lesson, i can't see it. that was raised by the _ their lesson, i can't see it. that was raised by the qc. _ their lesson, i can't see it. was raised by the qc. mark? their lesson, i can't see it. that i was raised by the qc. mark? like their lesson, i can't see it. that - was raised by the qc. mark? like you said disclosure _ was raised by the qc. mark? like you said disclosure would _ was raised by the qc. mark? like you said disclosure would become - was raised by the qc. mark? like you said disclosure would become an - said disclosure would become an issue tomorrow. i would like to have the hillsborough law to be fully enshrined in law so these type of disclosure to these type of full power abuse won't happen again. seema? the whole list i have in short i will say royal mail post office, government, house of parliament all each and every person involved in the scandal their properties need to be confiscated like they did mine. and distribute the money to all the victims. family

should feel safe b had a democratic country. it should be held proper law that nobody should misuse power. we have to leave it there. seema, thank you for talking to me. mark, do you to add tracy. thank you all and good luck. it sounds like there is progress obviously in the last couple of days but of course there is more before we get to the end of this. thank you for sharing those harrowing stories with us here. the post office scandal has sent wider ripples throughout the uk and the political world. all parties are facing questions as you heard there over their role in the scandal. today the labour leader released a statement have a listen. apologies. we will go to that clip. live now to westminster and our political correspondent damian grammaticas. there were some questions put to

keir starmer. if you get back to the late 1990s keir starmer. if you get back to the late1990s when the system was first conceived and set up, even at that point before it was fully rolled out under the government of tober blair said there were questions being asked for the —— tony blair. the question when ahead. there's been 17 post office ministers since then from all the major parties. questions that campaigners save for all of them. questions for keir starmer because he was the head of the crown prosecution service starting back 15 years ago, five years there were a few crown prosecution service at the time for the i think we can maybe play up what he knew at the time. i think the latest figures _ what he knew at the time. i think the latest figures show _ what he knew at the time. i think the latest figures show there - what he knew at the time. i thinkl the latest figures show there were possibly three cases that were brought— possibly three cases that were brought by the crown prosecution service _ brought by the crown prosecution service when i was imposed for five years _ service when i was imposed for five years in— service when i was imposed for five years. in that five—year period my staff, _ years. in that five—year period my staff, i_ years. in that five—year period my staff, l have — years. in that five—year period my staff, i have 7000 staff handle i think— staff, i have 7000 staff handle i think 4— staff, i have 7000 staff handle i think 4 million cases i did not see

these particular cases. i don't know yet what _ these particular cases. i don't know yet what they are about for the weather — yet what they are about for the weather they come within the cohort which _ weather they come within the cohort which is _ weather they come within the cohort which is of— weather they come within the cohort which is of concern.— weather they come within the cohort which is of concern. should you have been more — which is of concern. should you have been more curious? _ which is of concern. should you have been more curious? look, _ which is of concern. should you have been more curious? look, there - which is of concern. should you have been more curious? look, there are | been more curious? look, there are 4 million cases — been more curious? look, there are 4 million cases going _ been more curious? look, there are 4 million cases going through _ been more curious? look, there are 4 million cases going through or - been more curious? look, there are 4 million cases going through or being i million cases going through or being handled _ million cases going through or being handled by the crown prosecution service _ handled by the crown prosecution service i— handled by the crown prosecution service. i think the idea that the director— service. i think the idea that the director of— service. i think the idea that the director of probert persecutions would _ director of probert persecutions would curiously look at all 4 million _ would curiously look at all 4 million is _ would curiously look at all 4 million is on real. i wasn't aware of any— million is on real. i wasn't aware of any of— million is on real. i wasn't aware of any of these cases for the i don't — of any of these cases for the i don't actually know that cases of these _ don't actually know that cases of these cases so that i don't think anyone — these cases so that i don't think anyone knows whether they come with anyone knows whether they come with a case _ anyone knows whether they come with a case of _ anyone knows whether they come with a case of concern off of the no doubt — a case of concern off of the no doubt that— a case of concern off of the no doubt that we more information in the days— doubt that we more information in the days to — doubt that we more information in the days to come. and doubt that we more information in the days to come.— doubt that we more information in the days to come. and what all the oliticians the days to come. and what all the politicians point _ the days to come. and what all the politicians point to _ the days to come. and what all the politicians point to is _ the days to come. and what all the politicians point to is waiting - the days to come. and what all the politicians point to is waiting for i politicians point to is waiting for the public inquiry. as you are hearing from the postmasters they are the key question is compensation, clearing names and then whose door should the blame fall on? ., ~ then whose door should the blame fall on? ., ,, i. , . then whose door should the blame fall on? . ~' ,, , . .

fall on? thank you very much. that is 'ust fall on? thank you very much. that is just about _ fall on? thank you very much. that isiust about it _ fall on? thank you very much. that is just about it from _ fall on? thank you very much. that is just about it from today's - is just about it from today's verified live. thank you for watching will see at the same time tomorrow. hello. it has been a cold day again. up and down the uk. mostly dry though, thanks to the high pressure and that area of high pressure will be with us again for friday to bring another cold and dry day with variable amounts of cloud, a little bit of sunshine, but there will be quite a bit of cloud around i think through friday across england and wales. best of the clear spells across scotland and northern ireland with the best of the sunshine. but through tonight, under those clear skies, like when scotland, northern ireland could see some fog developing and it really will turn quite cold. a sharp frost developing in places particularly central scotland, down to minus eight celsius. but where we have more cloud for england, wales, then it should remain frost free. but it does mean friday will be a rather gray, gloomy morning for england and wales. cold, frosty stuff. scotland. northern ireland. best of the sunshine here. stubborn mist and fog could linger all day in places and we could see a few breaks in the cloud further south till off some sunny spells here and there.

temperatures again struggling to get much of a two or three across scotland, seven or eight for england and wales. as we move through friday night, we'll see this weather front bring some patchy rain, maybe some hill snow to northern scotland for a while. elsewhere, it's patchy cloud and clear spells. and where we have clear skies and it'll be frosty where we hold on to the cloud, then frost free. this is where the front seeing south was weakening into a band of cloud. as we head on into saturday, another one will push into northern scotland to bring further showers here. and then by sunday, much colder air pushes in across northern scotland to bring frequent snow showers. here, it'll turn cold and windy saturday, then a chilly day to come. variable cloud, the odd spot of rain with those weak weather fronts, some sunny spells here and there temperature wise, generally range between five and eight celsius. as we head into sunday, though, we'll see this weather front, sink southwards and weaken. there'll be some patchy rain on it, some sunshine to the south. it turns windy, cold and snowy. it turns windy, cold and snowy across northern scotland. these snow showers becoming quite frequent, even down to lower levels.

and there'll be significant accumulations by the end of the day, but less cold in the south. into next week it stays cold across the northern half of the country. further snow showers, maybe even an area of more prolonged snow for a while. then we need to keep an eye on this area of low pressure which could approach the south. if it pushes northwards into the cold air, it's likely that we could see a spell of sleet and snow across the south of the country. but it's quite a lot to play for here, so stay tuned to the forecast.

with one of the post office investigators who accused them — wrongly — of theft. this lawyer — representing 156 sub—postmasters at the public inquiry — challenged stephen bradshaw about his behaviour. do you accept that it was part of the culture within the investigation team to intimidate and abuse sub—postmasters? no. also tonight — protests in the hague as south africa goes

to the international court ofjustice accusing israel of committing genocide in gaza, something israel strongly denies. you have been amazing, you really have _ prince william surprises the former rugby league players rob burrow and kevin sinfield with their cbes in leeds. and bbc weather across the decades — we look back 70 years after the first forecast was broadcast on tv. coming up and support on bbc news andy farrell is appointed head coach of the british and irish lions for the 2025 tour to australia. good evening and welcome to the bbc news at six. a post office fraud investigator who was involved in criminal inquiries into sub—postmasters has

come face to face with some of the sub—postmasters he investigated.