oops! indistinct chatter the glamour! they laugh just behind us stands her academy award for a scene—stealing performance as elizabeth i injohn madden's shakespeare in love. i know something of a woman in a man's profession. yes, by god, i do know about that. but her love for shakespeare began when she was a girl and led to her becoming one of the nation's greatest classical actors, a star of the national theatre, the old vic and the rsc. damned spot! out, i say! today i'm going to be hearing how shakespeare, or, asjudi calls him in the title of her new book, "the man who pays the rent", has remained centre—stage throughout her life. and the sun comes out... and the sun comes out. that's good.

judi dench, welcome to this cultural life. thank you, john. you were born in 193a and grew up in york. set the scene for us. what was family life like? my father was a doctor... ..and i had two brothers, older than me. and of course, at that time, no television, nothing like that. so we all had bikes and we made our own entertainment. my second brother, jeff, only ever wanted to be an actor. my oldest brother wanted to be a doctor, like dad,

and i wanted to be a designer, scenic designer. that's what i set out to be. from a young age? from quite a young age, because we were taken to the theatre a lot, you know, we were taken to... i remember once going to see a cuckoo in the nest, and i laughed so... this couple was in bed and suddenly a chest at the end of the bed opened and a man stood up in vest and pants. and i was sick. i laughed so much, i was sick. my mother had to take me home. but the wonderful thing is that i was taken back a couple of nights later to see what happened. they laugh my pa used to be able to... he could recite the whole of hiawatha. and my... jeff, my brother, as i said, he wanted to be an actor, used to...he suddenly would launch into a huge, "for once upon a raw and gusty day, "the troubled tiber chafing with her shores; "caesar said to me,

�*darest thou cassius, now; "�*leap in with me in to this angry flood "and swim to yonder point?”' and we'd go, "oh, jeff!" we'd be going... but it would go on for five minutes! jeff actually went to the rsc, didn't he? he certainly did. did he lead the way for you in that way? well, i expect he certainly did. but i was taken to stratford, by my parents again, in...in... ..in1953, i think. and that would have been the very first shakespeare that you saw? no! oh, no. i'd seen shakespeare a long, long time ago, when my brother peter played duncan at st peter's school. macbeth. and i was taken... yeah. and he walked in and said, "what bloody man is that?" and i thought, "this is for me, this is absolutely for me." and then we went to stratford, when i was still bent on being a designer, and saw michael redgrave as lear. and it was the most incredible set, which was a great, huge, flat circle. and in the middle was a pile of stones which turned,

so there could be a cave or a throne or anything else. so nobody had to come in with anything, and the action was completely continuous. and that's when something about designing shut down in me. ijust remember looking at this set and thinking, "never in my wildest dreams would i be able to think "of something like that." and you thought from that moment that acting, rather than designing, that's the road you wanted to take? well, i don't suppose i thought it as consciously as that. i don't suppose it was an overnight thing. i suppose it was a gradual thing. i thought, well, "i'll try and get to the central school, likejeff." and i did. and so your father, medical man, interested in the theatre. were your parents involved in am—dram as well? yes, they were. the settlement players, they were part of. my ma used to make costumes and things. they decided to resurrect the miracle plays, the mystery plays in york. yes. so we were cast... can't believe it! ..as angels.

six of us, i think, were angels in the first load of mystery plays. you made your professional debut soon after leaving drama school. yes, just after i left central, just before i was going to the vic. and i knew that i'd been cast as ophelia and i wasn't allowed to tell anybody. in hamlet, in 1957, at the old vic. do you have memories of yourfirst night, of opening night, in hamlet? fear. fear. uh, no. i remember... ..memories of my second night, because the critics weren't kind to me! but what was so wonderful is that michael benthall, who ran the vic, said to me, "i'm going to keep you in the company," he said. and he said, "you'll play other parts "and you'll understudy all the time, "and that way you'll learn." what did you learn from that experience? you said that the critics were pretty harsh. they were, because they

were very cross, that, you know, that the national had chosen somebody who wasn't known and a newcomer to play ophelia. but i learned because it wasn't just six weeks, it was a year. so if you don't learn something in that time, you've had it, really. give up. as ophelia descends into madness, she sings to herself, and although you're not known primarily as a singer, it was about ten years after you made your debut in hamlet that you were cast as sally bowles in the very first london production of cabaret, directed by hal prince. were you surprised to get that part? you bet i was surprised! i thought it was a joke. and i can remember going in and auditioning for him and singing from the wings, because i wouldn't come out onstage for a bit. but he lured me out. what were you singing? can you remember? i think i sang happy birthday to you.

i just learned everything about how to kind of present myself in that musical. # hush up don't tell mama # shush up don't tell mama # don't tell mama, whatever you do # if you had a secret # you bet i could keep it # i would never tell on you... # i would never tell on you... # you took on many roles throughout the 1970s, and i think one of the greatest roles would have been in macbeth, with ian mckellen. at the other place, which was just a shed then. it's a theatre now, but it was just a shed. i always said that the sound was by god, because there was an enormous gust of wind under the door during the sleepwalking, and all i had was a candle. and the candle kind of would... it was very, very helpful! the candle did a lot of the acting for me during the sleepwalking. she laughs here's the smell

of the blood... ..still! all the perfumes of arabia will not sweeten this... ..little. .. ..hand. she sobs, wheezes she wails she sobs, wheezes she wails it was so exciting, though, because, you know, the audience was in there, as you are. mm. so you had to be on the ball a bit. this is regarded as a landmark production now, directed by trevor nunn, and ian mckellen as macbeth. this is regarded as a landmark production now, directed by trevor nunn, and ian mckellen as macbeth.

how much, when you when you take on a role like that, are you setting out to give a new fresh interpretation of lady macbeth? no, i think that would be fatal. you have to just think, "i'm going to play this to the best of my ability, "with the best of my understanding," and of course, with trevor and with ian and with everybody else in the cast, it's like a recipe. it's not a single... it's not... you're not out on your own. i have given suck, and know how tender 'tis to love the babe that milks me: i would, while it was smiling in my face, have pluck'd my nipple from its boneless gums, and dash'd the brains out, had i so sworn as you have done to this. if we should fail? we fail! but screw your courage to the sticking—place, and we'll not fail. at what point, given that that is now regarded as one

of the great productions, and an amazing performance by you, at what point do you know? does it come together in rehearsal? you don't know that. until it starts? until the run starts? oh, until the run finishes! really? you don't know it. there are people, i expect, who came to that who didn't like it very much. i mean, there might have been some people who came and said, "i couldn't see a thing." because it was so dark. if i went to that, i wouldn't be able to see at all. i'd be hopeless because i can't see anything now anyway! so it would be a disasterfor me. it's such an intimate space, so you must be really very vividly aware of reactions. you are. reactions to a very... and they're sitting where you are. right, yeah. because one night i was sitting, kneeling at ian's feet, and he said, you know, that line, "light thickens, and the crow makes wing "to the rooky wood." he said, "light thickens, "and the crow makes wing to the rooky nook." and... john laughs i'm never very much in control of myself, but i laughed and laughed.

i can remember thinking, "why not? she's having hysteria at this time. "she's gone to pieces." so i had a bit of a laugh and fell over a bit. i was kneeling at his feet... "rooky nook" is very, very funny. did you cover it, then? do you think people...? no, i turned it into some kind of hysteria. shouldn't think i fooled pussy, i don't know. she laughs but that must be very difficult, though. i mean, having that reaction and knowing that people are seeing every twitch of yourface, to playing at the olivier or somewhere, a big space. it must change... it changes all the time. ..the performance. it changes all the time. because if you have a good night, it's completely fatal to think, the next night, think, "oh, i must do it like that." no, no, no, it never works like that. you've got to rethink it, i think. when we did antony and cleopatra at the national, we did 100 performances,

and i knew that there was a laugh in a line that cleopatra said, and i tried, for 99 performances... ..to get the laugh. and on the 100th, i got the laugh. i'm going to come back to antony and cleopatra. you'd already played lady macbeth, hadn't you, i think 10, 12 years earlier in... africa. west africa. ..a tour of west african countries? yes. we did... where'd you go? ghana, sierra leone... ? ghana, sierra leone and nigeria. and we were the very, very first lot to go. and that was british council? british council. right. the british council said, would we go? because macbeth, twelfth night, and arms and the man were the set books for these young people, the children in nigeria, ghana, sierra leone. would we go and perform them? it was an experience i'll never, ever, everforget. ever. everything that rhymed made everybody laugh a lot.

so "the thane of fife had a wife" used to bring the house down. absolutely... imean... oh, god. but that sort of performance, that sort of tour, taking it, as you say, to the people, i mean, it must give you a different insight into the power... of shakespeare. ..and the potential of shakespeare. you bet. nkrumah was a political prisoner at the time. we played in his...in the grounds of the palace for him. in ghana? yeah. so did that give...? that political undercurrent that was happening at the time... it was. ..did that give that play a different kind of meaning? well, it must have done to the... may... oh, well, must, may have done to the people watching. yeah. is that something that's important for you, in whichever decade that you're performing shakespeare, that it does...that it is malleable in a way, that it can be adapted for the times to reflect... well... ..the political mood ? ..i don't think it

should be adapted. it's what it does to the person watching, isn't it? it's a reference, perhaps. but, i mean, you know, he knew... he knew absolutely everything, as far as i'm concerned, shakespeare, about every condition. and, therefore, that's why the plays have gone on for so long, because so many things mean different things to different people. and as well as that, all the emotions mean different things to people. mm. and he was able to somehow say it in a way that we use today, colloquially. mm. we don't know that we do it so often, i think. the next role that i'd like to talk about is another powerful, tragic woman — cleopatra in antony and cleopatra. and you played opposite anthony hopkins... idid. ..in a peter hall—directed

production at the national theatre in 1987. i've read that you questioned peter hall's judgment when he cast you as cleopatra. idid. what was your worry? isaid, "well, you'll get a lot of laughs. "she's meant to be a very, very tall girl," i said. she laughs queen of egypt. not quite right. what about her character? we talk about lady macbeth, very dark role there, she's a woman possessed. but cleopatra, you have that really amazing... she's a woman possessed. she's a woman who is passionate about her husband, and what he wants, she wants for him. that's what i think about lady macbeth. and similarly, cleopatra... ..is deeply in love as well, and driven by a great sense of sexual passion with antony. but she... i can remember peter saying to us, he said, "you get this great build—up about the two of them "at the very beginning of the play," which you do, i mean, they talk about... "and then in come two (bleep)," he said... ..said to us, "who behave very, very badly." and we used to roll all over the stage and be all over each

other and behave extremely badly. because she's a comic and playful character in a way. there are so many different facets to her, the infinite variety. yes. infinite variety. well, more difficult to play. yes. difficult, that's what i'm trying to get at. difficult, certainly. and also because she's wilful, she's difficult, she's a real pain at times, isn't she? yeah. how much sympathy do you have to have for her? oh, you ask some very hard questions! i've suddenly remembered that you do. now, do you...? no, you just have to understand it and be able to make the audience understand. it's not... it's not a question of me having sympathy with it. it's a question of me showing the audience that that is the person. where is the fellow? half afeard to come. go to, go to. come hither, sir. good majesty, herod ofjewry dare not look

upon you but when you are well pleased. that herod's head i'll have! but how, when antony is gone, through whom i might command it? there's gold for thee. tell me about working with anthony hopkins as antony. he was wonderful and very, very unexpected. you never knew which way he was going tojump. and that was important to that relationship between the two of them. mm. but then, at his death, we were up at the monument and he would lie and he would die. and he would say to me, "and now you do act v "and i'm going to have a nice cup of tea." what, he would whisper that? and that's true. yes. really? "now i'll go and have a nice cup of tea while you do "act v, right?" let me just take you back to cleopatra. antony and cleopatra, in 1987, directed by peter hall,

who was running the national theatre at the time, of course, wasn't he? so how would you characterise him as a director? oh, gosh, he used to stand at a lectern with the script, so that he would... and he would slightly beat it out so that you absolutely knew the rhythm that it should be. and i remember the death of cleopatra. "our royal lady's dead, dead, dead. "our royal lady's murdered." and he would... and we, the three of us, were there, one day, rehearsing, and it went on for a very long time. we got on to the last bit, that "royal lady's dead." there was a pause and peter said, "thank christ!" he said... she laughs but it was just, you know, he was... a sticklerfor the meter, then? it's the rhythm of it. they're not written that way... ..for a wilful reason. they're written that way because you must... ..you must obey the rhythm of the line. it's like the beating of your heart. that's why i love it so much. tell me something

about learning parts. cleopatra itself is a lot of lines to learn. was there a particular way of committing it to memory? did you have a particular method? no, it's just that it is the beating of your heart. it's... you know if you've missed something out because you hear that you missed it out. so that's very helpful. that rhythm? yes. the peter hall... that's right. "my father had a daughter loved a man, "as it might be, were i a woman, "i should your lordship." if you once kind of hear the rhythm of it, and if you obey it, it makes sense. if you go against it... ..it doesn't necessarily make sense. mm. shakespeare hasn't ever really been a problem to me to learn. the last time you were onstage performing in a shakespeare play was the winter's tale in 2015, directed by kenneth branagh, which i guess was almost 60 years after your shakespearean debut when you played

ophelia in hamlet. and i said, "what was that like?" you said, "fear, fear." think back a few years to 2015. does experience...? what does experience do for first—night nerves? well, it doesn't do anything. you're still nervous. you still feel you have an enormous responsibility. but i suppose experience has taught me that there's more to worry about. everybody�*s nervous, and it's not yourjob to transmit it, nerves, to anybody, to your...the rest of the company, in any way. so just get on and do it properly, or better. and the next night, do it better than that. and kenneth branagh, onstage with you, playing... leontes. so how was it, being directed by your co—star? oh, ken, i know him so well. when we did ghosts, first thing we did together... ibsen. we were sent out of the studio for laughing. that was mike gambon's fault.

if you get on very well with somebody, you know, it's very easy because you can suddenly say, "i don't understand this, but all right." you can, you know... and he has a wonderful sense of humour. god, it's important! what studied torments, tyrant, hast for me? what wheels, racks, fires? what flaying and boiling in leads and oils? what old or newer torture must i receive, whose every word deserves to hear of thy most worst? thy tyrannies, together working with thyjealousies — 0 think what they have done, and then run mad indeed, stark mad, for all thy bygone fooleries were but spices of it! it must have been quite challenging. i saw that performance that you gave in a winter's tale, and you were playing paulina, and also time. yes. time being the sort of...the kind of note to the audience that a lot of time has passed. yes, reminding you, in case you dropped off in the first...

yes. "this is what's happened." what was known at the time was that your eyesight was degenerating, even then, and i remember seeing that performance and thinking, i mean, there's such a power and a clarity to your delivery, and a presence on the stage. was it... how difficult was it already, then, to be onstage? oh, not that difficult because it was all flat. if there had been a flight of stairs, you might have had a different idea! i do a show with gyles brandreth, which we've been doing for a while, and he does a very kind thing. i've never actually said anything about it. but now, because he announces and i have to walk on, and he has a wonderful mat, which is kind of black—and—white, looks like a huge zebra lying on the ground. but, you know, i make... i'm like a plane coming in to land. i make for the mat. i can see that. x marks the spot. there's the mat. now i know i'm in safe ground.

for those who don't know, it's macular degeneration, isn't it? yeah. my mother had it. mm. it's all right. i can't seem to read any more, so that's tricky because i have to learn... anything i have to learn now is tricky. mm. i will think up a new way of doing it. so, how do you learn the lines now, then? do you get somebody to read them out to you? well, i haven't had to do it since my eyes have been this bad. but i will. i'll try... i'll find a way. do you think that... ..that performance in the winter's tale, do you think that is possibly the last time we'll see you in shakespeare, onstage? oh, god, iwouldn't like to think that. probably is, but i'm not going to say that. you never know, do you? i've never been in othello. that would have been nice at some point. which of the many roles that you've played over the years,

the shakespearean roles i'm talking about, when were you happiest onstage doing shakespeare? there must be a moment... i've never not been. really? never not been. i mean, there are plays you like more. well, there's going to be... there must be some plays that you don't particularly like. i don't like the merchant of venice as a play. and michael and i, when we were first married at stratford, he played bassanio, and i played portia. i didn't like that. i still don't like that play. mm. they all behave so badly, and there's not much excuse for any of them. when you were a young actor starting out, you and your late husband michael williams used to refer to shakespeare as "the man who pays the rent". yes, we called him that. michael was in one company, i was in the other, and shakespeare was the person who we were playing all the time. and so he was very much the man who paid the rent. what is he now to you? the man who pays the rent, probably. they laugh well, he certainly... he's never been less than that. very, very, very important.

he's referred to every day in my life, i think, probably, and i think he's referred to in most of our days, without us knowing. yeah, absolutely. heaven. judi dench, thank you so much for sharing your cultural life with us. not very cultural! thank you, john. quite a life, though. thank you. hello there. a few wintry scenes captured by our weather watchers on friday across parts of scotland, such as here in perth and kinross. but the severe frost will become a lot more widespread as we go into the start of next week,

with the potential for some disruptive snow, too. where is that colder air? well, it's behind this series of weather fronts. across northern scotland on sunday, that chilly airjust spilling down from the arctic as we head through the start of next week across the whole of the uk, with brisk and cold northerly winds blowing. so, lots of added wind chill to factor into the temperatures. but this is how we start off the day on saturday, with temperatures hovering just above freezing, a few pockets of air frost where we see the clear spells, a week weather front sinking southwards, bringing outbreaks of patchy rain into northern areas of northern ireland, north west england and north wales. to the north of the front across scotland, some winter sunshine, showers by the endof the day in the north ahead of the front across england and wales, variable amounts of cloud, but also some brighter spells, temperatures ranging between 5—8 degrees celsius. and it's more of the same, too, on saturday night into sunday morning. there will be some clear skies around at times. we'll start to see the northerly wind pick up, brisk across the northern isles

with some snow showers for the north of scotland. but again, to start the day on sunday, most of our temperatures will be slightly above freezing. but then that colder air really starts to show its hand with some snow showers even to low levels across northern scotland, with this feature just running down towards the north, further south as we head throughout the day. but we've still got the milder air with some winter sunshine across england and wales, 7—8 degrees celsius here. but on sunday night into monday, there is the risk of some snow and ice, with weather warnings in place across northern ireland and the north of scotland. that wind starts to really pick up — look at the squeeze on the isobars on monday into tuesday — so wintry showers towards north sea—facing coasts with this feature running across northern ireland into southern scotland and perhaps northern england. so, here, the snow risk will extend further southwards through the day on tuesday. and then we look to the south—west to see this weather frontjust moving its way further northwards. there is the possibility that, as it bumps into the colder air, we could possibly see some snow across the south of england on wednesday, but it's still very uncertain, so my advice would be to keep an eye on the forecast.

it will certainly be cold. there is the greater risk of some snow with some severe frosts by night.

live from washington, this is bbc news. first in the nation — the us state of iowa prepares to choose its republican nominee for president. but as candidates conduct final campaigning in iowa, deadly winter weather could depress turnout. and ron desantis is set to skip new hampshire's primary as he looks to gain support and funding after the iowa caucuses. hello. i'm sumi somaskanda.

the us 2024 presidential race kicks off on monday, when iowa republicans hold caucus meetings to pick the party's nominee. political analysts and the wider public will be particularly focused on who will lead the pack of republican challengers, and what the results in iowa may suggest in the run—up to november. but it's notjust in the united states where ballots are being counted. polls are open in taiwan, where voters are choosing a new president and parliament. the economy and education are key issues for voters. but one sobering issue looms large: how taiwan should address the threat from china. steve bbc presenter steve lai is in taipei and wasjoined earlier by celia hatton, bbc news' asia—pacific regional editor. coup china's view on this election — how would you sump it up? election - how would you sump it u? ~ , election - how would you sump itu? it up? well, china's unhappy that these — it up? well, china's unhappy that these elections - it up? well, china's unhappy that these elections are - it up? well, china's unhappy i that these elections are taking place — that these elections are taking place at — that these elections are taking place at all. they view this government on this island of taiwan— government on this island of taiwan as _ government on this island of taiwan as being illegitimate because they believe this territory belongs to beijing.

but when it comes to