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tv   BBC News  BBC News  January 19, 2024 5:30pm-6:01pm GMT

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this is bbc news, the headlines... fujitsu's europe boss admits it was "shameful" that lawyers allowed witness statements to be altered, and admits bugs in the horizon computer system were known for decades. the united states has strongly criticised the israeli prime minister's rejection of any need for a palestinian state, once the conflict in gaza is over. confirmation that thousands ofjobs will go at tata steel, as the firm closes blast furnaces at britain's biggest steelworks in south wales. and japan becomes the fifth country to put a spacecraft on the moon after a precision landing metres from the mission�*s targget. it warns that its solar cells are not generating power. more on all
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those headline stories in a moment, but first, across to the sports centre to around out the headlines for the day, chetan pathak is with us. jordan henderson has hinted he has regrets about his move to saudi arabia, but says he has full respect for the league and his team al—ettifaq after they cancelled his contract to allow him to move to ajax. he's held his first press conference since signing for the side, who are currently struggling in the dutch league. he's hoping the move will improve his chances of playing for england at this summer's euros. today, he reiterated his apology to the lgbtq+ community and anyone upset by his move from liverpool to saudi in the summer, and says he's looking forward to the challenge ahead at his new club. ijust i just felt as though this opportunity was a huge one, and i felt as though this was the right next move for my career and what i wanted to do. obviously it was a big
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decision, with how long i'd been out in saudi. but they fully respected the decision and i was just thankful that it was handled in the right way. brentford's ivan toney has been handed the captain's armband for his return to football in their premier league game against nottingham forest on sunday. brentford boss thomas frank confirmed toney will skipper the team on his comeback fom an eight—month ban for breaching betting rules. that's because captain christian norgaard is unavailable. toney has been linked with a move to other clubs injanuary, but his manager is hopeful he'll still be a brentford player when the window closes in just under two weeks. it's 99 point something that he'll stay here. football is crazy, you never know what will happen tomorrow. he's very committed to being here, to helping the team. i spoke with him yesterday about it — that's the only thing on his mind, wejust that's the only thing on his mind, we just have that .0 something number of craziness in football that
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you can't rule out. he wants to stay here and help the team, and we want to keep him. both of the defending singles champions, novak djokovic and aryna sabalenka, are safely through to the fourth round of the australian open. but the story of the day was 16—year old mira andreeva's miracle comeback. the teenager was on the verge of losing to france's diane parry — she was 5—1 match point down in the deciding set — but turned things around to win, and is now into the fourth round of a grand slam for the second time in her short career so far — having done the same at wimbledon last year. and before we go, another chapter to darts sensation luke littler�*s amazing story as he storms into the semi finals of the bahrain masters. the 16—year—old did it in style, hitting a nine—darter in his 6—3 victory over nathan aspinall, taking out a mi finish to throw the perfect leg. littler ended the match with another tonne plus finish and is now
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through to the semifinal. jaw—dropping composure from the 16—year—old. he makes it look effortless, doesn't he? more on that on the bbc sport website, but back to you. the inquiry into the post office scandal — where hundreds of post masters and mistresses were wrongly convicted of fraud or stealing charges — continues in central london today. facing a second grilling of the week today is paul patterson, european director of fujitsu. he admitted that fujitsu was aware of the errors for nearly two decades, and said details about the vast majority of them had been shared with the post office at the time. we'rejoined now by seema misra, a former sub—post—mistress who was pregnant with her second child, when she was falsely convicted of theft and sent to jail in 2010. thank you so much for being with us. again, we spoke last week, you've been listening to today's evidence.
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i want to start with that acknowledgement — and we heard that european boss say it was shameful that witness accounts had been edited — what did you make when you heard that? it edited - what did you make when you heard that? . , , ~ �* , heard that? it was shocking, it's very shocking- _ heard that? it was shocking, it's very shocking. you _ heard that? it was shocking, it's very shocking. you know, - heard that? it was shocking, it's very shocking. you know, every| heard that? it was shocking, it's - very shocking. you know, every time when i come in, there's more and more shocking news. find when i come in, there's more and more shocking news.— when i come in, there's more and more shocking news. and the other leu of the more shocking news. and the other leg of the evidence _ more shocking news. and the other leg of the evidence from _ more shocking news. and the other leg of the evidence from that - more shocking news. and the other leg of the evidence from that boss l leg of the evidence from that boss was that horizon knew of the glitches for nearly two decades. you talk about being shocked, but to have that knowledge that they knew about the glitches when they were saying to people like you, that you were on your own and this had clearly happened — i mean, what do you think when you hear evidence come to light like that? you know, the could come to light like that? you know, they could have _ come to light like that? you know, they could have done _ come to light like that? you know, they could have done it _ come to light like that? you know, they could have done it ages - come to light like that? you know, they could have done it ages ago. | they could have done it ages ago. they could have done ages and saved so many lives — but they decided not
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to. it's easy for them to say sorry, but what next?— to. it's easy for them to say sorry, but what next? and just in terms of but what next? and 'ust in terms of the impact. _ but what next? and 'ust in terms of the impact. t _ but what next? and just in terms of the impact, i referenced _ but what next? and just in terms of the impact, i referenced that - but what next? and just in terms of the impact, i referenced that we . the impact, i referenced that we spoke last week, but for people who perhaps didn't hear that interview, just remind them, in terms of what you were accused of, the fact that you were accused of, the fact that you are pregnant and the fact that — just tell me more about the basic impact all this had on you? 50. impact all this had on you? so, des-ite impact all this had on you? so, despite putting _ impact all this had on you? str, despite putting money impact all this had on you? sc, despite putting money into impact all this had on you? s5 despite putting money into the impact all this had on you? s5, despite putting money into the post office, my personal money, borrowing money from friends and family, the post office prosecuted me for £75,000 and false accounting. i plead guilty, but i never pleaded guilty for the theft charges, why should i? but then the trial went on and on, when i was eight weeks
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pregnant, i was —— sentenced to that you were pregnant of what you, but you were pregnant of what you, but you are still give people an idea give people an idea what it's like to be sent to prison. it give people an idea what it's like to be sent to prison.— to be sent to prison. it was horrible. — to be sent to prison. it was horrible. i _ to be sent to prison. it was horrible, i always - to be sent to prison. it was| horrible, i always believed, to be sent to prison. it was - horrible, i always believed, why would i be sent to prison for a crime i didn't commit? when the judge said imprisonment, it was hard for me to believe. anything is possible in this world, but i never thought i would go to prison. find thought i would go to prison. and did ou thought i would go to prison. and did you ever— thought i would go to prison. and did you ever think we would get to this moment where the truth actually
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became that was done to you and many others? we became that was done to you and many others? ~ ., ., , ._ others? we were aiming for this day, we were heping _ others? we were aiming for this day, we were heping it _ others? we were aiming for this day, we were hoping it would _ others? we were aiming for this day, we were hoping it would come. - others? we were aiming for this day, | we were hoping it would come. that's what we were fighting for, all of us knew that we were innocent and hadn't done anything wrong. there was a big conspiracy by the system and all that, that's what we were fighting for. we knew definitely there would be a victory. final thoutht, there would be a victory. final thought, because _ there would be a victory. final thought, because as _ there would be a victory. final thought, because as we - there would be a victory. final thought, because as we hear. there would be a victory. final thought, because as we hear more of this evidence and we have more admissions and apologies, ultimately would you like to see prosecutions of individuals?— would you like to see prosecutions of individuals? absolutely, each and every person — of individuals? absolutely, each and every person who's _ of individuals? absolutely, each and every person who's been _ of individuals? absolutely, each and| every person who's been responsible for the scandal — royal mail office, the government — each person needs to go behind bars. we need to caution them. we to go behind bars. we need to caution them.— to go behind bars. we need to caution them. we have to leave it there, caution them. we have to leave it there. but — caution them. we have to leave it there, but thanks _ caution them. we have to leave it there, but thanks once _ caution them. we have to leave it there, but thanks once again - caution them. we have to leave it there, but thanks once again for i there, but thanks once again for joining us here on the programme,
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thanks for talking to us.— joining us here on the programme, thanks for talking to us. thank you, b e-b e. evidence has been found connecting the husband of tory peer michelle mone to a company that tax experts say should be investigated for fraud. doug barrowman has always denied any involvement in vanquish options — a company that falsely claimed customers could write off money owed to the government. some of those customers have told the bbc newsnight their lives have been ruined over this. doug loves fine art, fine cars —— fine art, fast cars, and the better thing in life. fine art, fast cars, and the better thing in life-— thing in life. this is doug barrowman, _ thing in life. this is doug barrowman, his - thing in life. this is doug barrowman, his greatestj thing in life. this is doug - barrowman, his greatest love is thing in life. this is doug _ barrowman, his greatest love is his yacht. he made millions in finance and hasn't been shy about showing off just and hasn't been shy about showing offjust how many millions, telling the world in a 2022 documentary. mr barrowman was thrown back into the public spotlight recently as husband of x conservative peer michelle
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moaned. he made millions selling personal protective equipment to the uk government during the pandemic, and one of his companies is now being sued by the government for breach of contract. but how did douglas barrowman make his money before the ppe affair? aml has been described as doug barrowman's tax avoidance firm in an hmrc press release. in the 2010s, aml promoted a scheme which supposedly enabled self—employed contractors to avoid income tax by converting their salaries into a loan from an offshore trust — a loan which would never need to be repaid. the problem was that these disguised renumeration sworn to legally sound, an hmrc eventually clamped down in 2016, planning those who had been sold one of mr barrowman's schemes with huge loan charges. doug adams was one of them. he had taken out a loan in 2011 when he was an it contractor. he ended up facing a
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loan charge of it's impacted my health, i've been with chest pains. it's 100% health, i've been with chest pains. it's100% caused by. it's effectively destroyed my life. it's meant that at the age of 56, i'll be homeless. and with property prices as they are in this area, i won't be able to live here any more. whether mr barrowman's _ able to live here any more. whether mr barrowman's companies - able to live here any more. whether mr barrowman's companies were i able to live here any more. whether. mr barrowman's companies were acting within the law by pushing these schemes before the 2016 hmrc clampdown is a moot point — but now, tax policy associates has uncovered new evidence shared with newsnight that shows that mr barrowman's companies were continuing to push these schemes after that 2016 clampdown — which is a whole different order of seriousness. it was again criticised... former i
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different order of seriousness. it - was again criticised. .. former hmrc was again criticised... former hmrc tax insoector — was again criticised... former hmrc tax insoector ray — was again criticised... former hmrc tax inspector ray mccann _ was again criticised... former hmrc tax inspector ray mccann reviewed l tax inspector ray mccann reviewed letters from companies linked to mr barrowman which were intended to have been sent to the tax authorities. these letters falsely said loans had been repaid. there's not been enough _ said loans had been repaid. there's not been enough or— said loans had been repaid. there's not been enough or hmrc- said loans had been repaid. there's not been enough or hmrc to - said loans had been repaid. there's not been enough or hmrc to justify not been enough or hmrc tojustify opening _ not been enough or hmrc tojustify opening a _ not been enough or hmrc tojustify opening a criminal investigation. if this type _ opening a criminal investigation. if this type of thing doesn't come within— this type of thing doesn't come within the scope of that sort of approach. _ within the scope of that sort of approach, then it's difficult to see what _ approach, then it's difficult to see what would. it�*s approach, then it's difficult to see what would-— what would. it's unclear what, if an , is what would. it's unclear what, if any. is mr— what would. it's unclear what, if any, is mr barrowman's - what would. it's unclear what, if - any, is mr barrowman's involvement in some of these potentially fraudulent letters, seen by newsnight. but he's defended the lawfulness of the scheme in his response to the bbc. in a statement, mr barrowman said he... and claims hmrc has... they claim that during this time, hmrc... they added that
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they... which they blame on retrospective legal action from the government. doug adams is in no doubt that action ought to be taken against mr barrowman. hmrc doubt that action ought to be taken against mr barrowman.— doubt that action ought to be taken against mr barrowman. hmrc are going off the wrong — against mr barrowman. hmrc are going off the wrong people. _ against mr barrowman. hmrc are going off the wrong people. they _ against mr barrowman. hmrc are going off the wrong people. they are - against mr barrowman. hmrc are going off the wrong people. they are going i off the wrong people. they are going after individuals in destroying their lives, as opposed to going for their lives, as opposed to going for the likes of doug barrowman, who is a billionaire. he was the one who peddled these schemes, and he's literally been given a free ride. ben chu, bbc news. live now to our economics correspondent ben chu. ben, how does this evidence suggest mr barrowman is connected to this company that experts say should be investigated for fraud? we really need to start at the beginning. as we said in that film, doug barrowman's co., aml, was promoting this tax avoidance scheme
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in the 2010s that involved people converting their salaries into offshore loans, and these were supposedly not subject to income and tax. whether that was legal was always open to question, but the key moment was in 2016 when the uk government essentially removed all doubts about that and had all these contractors with these often huge, debilitating loan charges — essentially a monumental back tax fell. what tax policy associates have discovered is that aml was pushing its clients after 2016 to a third company called vanquish options, which was suggesting it could make this loan charge problem for these contractors going away by swapping their old loans for new ones — but the employees of vanquish options wrote letters to people who took up these schemes, saying they had no outstanding liability. the idea was that the letters could then
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be presented to the hmrc as justification for why they didn't need to worry or pay the loan charge. the problem, again as you heard, is tax experts say these letters were potentially fraudulent because they were apparently intended to deceive hmrc about the situation. so where did mr barrowman fit into this? in the past, he's denied being connected to vanquish options, but we've seen that new evidence that vanquish options used the same e—mail service as his main company, aml, and we've also reviewed the roles and directives that they shared many of the same personnel, and they are all douglas barrowman's business associates. we should stress it's unclear what, if anything, is barrowman's involvement in these fraudulent letters, but he's defended the lawfulness of the schemes in general in his response to us. �* . . , ., schemes in general in his response tous. .. , ., ~ to us. and just briefly, what has mr barrowman — to us. and just briefly, what has mr barrowman actually _ to us. and just briefly, what has mr
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barrowman actually said _ to us. and just briefly, what has mr barrowman actually said in - to us. and just briefly, what has mr i barrowman actually said in response? we have to recap the full response first, but a senior partner from first, but a senior partnerfrom mr barrowman's knox group says he denies any and all allegations and wrongdoing, and claims hmrc had disclosures of the schemes and has beenin disclosures of the schemes and has been in extensive dialogue with hmrc for several years. they added that they deeply and sincerely regret anguish arriving from the hmrc loan charge, but it's worth discussing that despite being specifically invited by the bbc to deny that connection between mr barrowman and vanquish, they failed to do so. been, thanks very much for all that. the metropolitan police are appealing for the mother of a newborn baby girl, who was found wrapped in a towel in a shopping bag in east london, to get in touch. police say the baby was discovered in newham by a member of the public who kept her warm until paramedics arrived. a short while ago, the met police held a press conference with an update on how
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the baby is faring. i'm delighted to report that she wasn't injured in any way, and is safe and well in the care of hospital staff. they've given her temporary name — elsa. we believe she's a black or mixed—race child. i'm extremely grateful to the members of the public who stayed at the scene to speak with officers and medics — your actions contributed to saving elsa's life. we believe elsa to have been less than an hour old when she was found. we do not yet know how long she had been there when she was found. our thoughts now turn to the baby's mother. we are actually concerned for her welfare, as she will have been through a traumatic ordeal, and will be in need of immediate medical attention following the birth. trained medics and specialist officers are ready to support her, and we urge her to get in touch by phone or walk into the nearest hospital or police station.
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if you are the baby's mother, please know that your daughter is well. no matter what your circumstances, please do seek help by dialling 999. the latest there from the police. now imagine you're sitting at home and find out you've become the talk of social media, but have no idea what for. well, spare a thought for our very own technology editor, zoe kleinman, who was alerted to a screenshot which had been supposedly taken from elon musk�*s chatbot, grok. it suggested she was one of the top spreaders of disinformation on x — formerly known as twitter. zoejoins me now to tell us more. before you take us through the various exchanges you've had subsequently, why don't you start by just giving us a quick explanation of what grok actually is? grok just giving us a quick explanation of what grok actually is?- just giving us a quick explanation of what grok actually is? grok is an ai chat bot. — of what grok actually is? grok is an ai chat bot, much _ of what grok actually is? grok is an
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ai chat bot, much like _ of what grok actually is? grok is an ai chat bot, much like chatgpt. - of what grok actually is? grok is an | al chat bot, much like chatgpt. you ai chat bot, much like chatgpt. you can't use it as a member of the public, you have to sign up to it, so not everyone can see it. it's also got what's called fun mode, which is where it will answer questions a bit more cheekily, i suppose, and a little less straight. so it is a chat bot along those lines, its artificial intelligence driven working off data that's taken about everything, really, from the internet. i encountered it because this list started doing the rounds of disinformation spreaders, and i was number nine on that list — as a working journalist, that stuff really not a list i want to be on. i decided to try to find out how to challenge it, because although we don't really have regulation in force yet in lots of different territories, there's lots of talk about it — and it is something that lots of experts say it's really important, as ai becomes increasingly part of our lives, it's generating more content about us and making more decisions about us. and
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humans have to be able to challenge the computer, if you like. so i decided to try and give that go and it was not as easy as i thought it might be. it was not as easy as i thought it mitht be. .. ~ it was not as easy as i thought it mitht be. . ~ ., might be. take me through it because it's clearly defamatory. _ might be. take me through it because it's clearly defamatory. so _ might be. take me through it because it's clearly defamatory. so take - might be. take me through it because it's clearly defamatory. so take me i it's clearly defamatory. so take me through the various efforts you had to get it pulled and alert the authorities — what all did you do? i started by contacting x itself, and it won't surprise you to know because they're not keen on talking to journalists, because they're not keen on talking tojournalists, that because they're not keen on talking to journalists, that they did not reply to me at all. then i tried the information commissioner office in the uk which looks after data protection — it said because this list was content, i should contact ofcom. now ofcom is the internet regulator here which polices our newly bought in online safety act — but they said they couldn't help me either because although the content was harmful, it wasn't criminal, and the only deal with criminal activity online. they suggested i talk to a lawyer, so i contacted two lawyers who claim to be specialists in al. guess what? one of them didn't want to talk to me at all, and the other said that although it was
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defamatory, because it was a list that had been published and i was identifiable, the onus would be on me to prove that it was harmful — of course i didn't know how far this had spread and exactly who had seen it — and interestingly, there's no legal precedent for this. there's a couple ongoing cases around the world where individuals are suing chat bot creators because of the content it's creating about them, but there haven't been any outcomes yet, so there's no precedent. so it was beginning to sound like it would be an expensive, time—consuming exercise with no guarantee i would win. but i didn't want to take legal action anyway — what i wanted to do was see how easy it was to challenge what was being said about me. and there's one final twist in this plot, matthew, which is that i also spoke to our colleagues at bbc verify, whosejob is to spoke to our colleagues at bbc verify, whose job is to verify all sorts of information— they looked at the screen shot for me and they think that the screenshot itself may be fake. so another twist in the tail there. be fake. so another twist in the tailthere. but be fake. so another twist in the tail there. but the serious point is, if ai is lying about you, or you
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think it is, what do you do and where you supposed to start? i thought i knew but i still found it really tricky. thought i knew but i still found it really tricky-— really tricky. that is a really, really tricky. that is a really, really fascinating _ really tricky. that is a really, really fascinating story i really tricky. that is a really, really fascinating story from | really fascinating story from beginning to end. zoe, thank you so much for taking us through it. thank ou. two madonna fans are suing the american singer for being late by more than two hours for a show last month in new york according to court documents. they state that the show was meant to start at 8.30pm on all three nights — but in each case, it didn't start until after 10.30pm and ended at 1am in the morning. i spoke earlier with our music correspondent, mark savage, who says this isn't the first time the pop star has been in hot water for being tardy. she has a reputation for being late on stage, and she was sued by two fans in florida in 2019, and again in 2020 for being late to the stage. and both of those lawsuits were voluntarily dismissed. and it remains to be seen what's going to happen in this case. and any idea in terms of how much she's being sued for?
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it doesn't say in the court documents, but the tickets for these concerts start relatively low for a major pop concert — about £65, $70-80, but they go up to over $1,000. so you could be looking for compensation in that amount. and the two people that have brought the lawsuit, michael fellowes and jonathan hadden, are launching it as a class action — so they're looking for other fans who want compensation to come forward and join them in the court action. of course, we don't know yet how many more will do that. i think madonna fans, or at least die—hard madonna fans, know she has this reputation for turning up late. and when i saw her in london the opening night of this celebration tour, she was about an hour late on stage that night. there was then a technical fault with the sound system that stopped the show for about 15 minutes, and it did end again very late that night. it has happened all the way
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through europe, and on quite a few of the american dates, too. i suppose the organisers perhaps can argue, with a history of that when they bought the tickets, perhaps they should have known and perhaps accepted that that was a possibility. so it'll be interesting how this gets argued. but in terms of what the plaintiffs are saying, in terms of the damage to them, i mean, what is that, apart from just the irritation of it? well, in the court documents, they say many ticket—holders who attended the concerts on a weeknight had to get up early to go to work the next day, that they were left stranded with limited transport options when they left the venue at 1am in the morning. i do have to say, i went and checked my ticket — this is it — for madonna at the 02 last october, and it doesn't have a start time on it. it says the doors open at 6.30pm, but it does not say what time should be on stage. and then in the back, the tiniest small print you will ever see. it says, "all advertised times are approximate
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and subject to change," so i think they might come unstuckjust based on those terms and conditions. and i suppose, if successful here, a lot of artists might be quaking in their boots. yes, madonna is not the only one. you may remember last summer, very famously, lana del rey was playing at glastonbury — she turned up on stage nearly a0 minutes late, and when they hit the curfew, they pulled the plug on her. that happened to bruce springsteen in hyde park about ten years ago, as well. justin bieber at the 02 once turned up 45 minutes late and got booed by his fans. he later put out a statement saying there is no excuse for being late. and guns n roses — i have a friend who used to work at the manchester arena when guns n roses played there, and they were warned that they should get friends to come and pick them up when they worked at the arena, because they would show up late, they would pay for breaking the curfew, and they would have to make their own way home after all the public transport had stopped. that's it from me, lucy is up next. thanks for watching today, see you
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next time, bye—bye. hello there, good evening. it's all change weather—wise as we head through this weekend. it's been cold and wintry through the week, with snow showers in the north. sharp overnight frosts and lots of dry weather, some weak winter sunshine, too, on friday for many. but much milder—feeling conditions over the weekend, it's also going to be wet and very windy, with a named storm — stormy isha — on sunday night into monday morning, could cause some disruption from strong winds. why is it happening? well, the high pressure is pulling away towards the east, allowing atlantic fronts to roll in from the west, along with some much milder—feeling airjust streaming in from the southwest — marked in yellow here — displacing that cold, arctic air further northwards and eastwards. and there will be some more rain overnight tonight across western areas of scotland — some snowmelt, too, possibly still a little wintry over the higher ground. icy conditions for the far north of scotland. some more rain edging into western wales and into northwest england. temperatures towards eastern areas of england are likely to dip below
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freezing for a while, and thenm rise again to just above freezing as we head into the start of the day tomorrow. so, we should be largely frost—free to start off saturday morning. and then, tomorrow, some more outbreaks of rain across western wales, up through the pennines and possibly approaching western scotland by the end of the day. strong, gusty winds for irish sea coasts, gusting perhaps as high as 50—55 mph. lots of dry weather towards eastern areas here — temperatures will struggle to recover through the day, but further west, 9—10 celsius — so back up into double figures with that milder—feeling air. as we head through sunday, this is storm isha rolling in from the west. you can just see the squeeze on the isobars here — very strong, gusty winds, with the worst of them to come on sunday night into the first part of monday morning. but on sunday, the winds will start to pick out from the southwest turning more westerly. there'll be outbreaks of heavy rain, too, warnings in force across northwest england and southwest scotland. could be some localised flooding here, maybe. the air is mild — top temperatures
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between 9—13 celsius. now the whole of the uk is covered by a weather warning for strong winds, but of most concern are these areas here — they've been upgraded to an amber weather warning. these warnings in force until 9am on monday morning. some gusts of wind could exceed 70—80 mph particularly for exposed coasts. it's all likely to cause disruption if you are travelling on monday morning, so do keep an eye on the forecast. bye— bye.
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today at six — social services were not to blame for the death of two—year—old bronson battersby, his sister has told the bbc. the toddler was found next to his father kenneth, who'd had a fatal heart attack. it's thought bronson died through lack of food and water. i believe that social services and the police did what they could within the powers that they had and the information that they were given. a senior fujitsu boss tells the post office inquiry it was well known that there were bugs in the horizon system from the start. a newborn girl is being cared for in hospital after being found in a shopping bag on a london street during sub—zero temperatures. prince harry drops his libel claim against the publisher of the mail on sunday. and potting the golden ball — a new twist as snooker heads to saudi arabia.

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