yeah, he does have charisma. yeah. a dim view of the prime minister shared by some of his own colleagues back in westminster, where this week there was even a botched attempt to get him out. no—one likes the guy who's shouting, "iceberg!" - but i suspect that people will be even less happy. if we hit the iceberg. keir starmer was all too happy to pile in too. i love this quaint tradition where the more they slag him off behind his back, the louder they cheer in here. but our members of the public weren't much more impressed with him. a bit boring, to be honest with you. i don't look at him and think he's the one that's going to come - and save us. i don't know what he actually believes. so, we have one big question — can rishi sunak and keir starmer answer the public�*s lack of faith? with us in the studio for the first time to answer that question, the business secretary, kemi badenoch.

from labour we'll be joined byjonathan reynolds, who is after herjob. with donald trump plotting a course back to the white house, what would that mean in what seems like an increasingly dangerous world? we'll hear from the boss of america's navy. we've had both republican and democratic presidents who always abided by the core values of our country, and when you have someone who doesn't align to those core principles, it makes you wonder, you know, should you be supporting that individual? morning, morning. the public�*s in charge — yes, you. with me at the desk, the former conservative cabinet minister nadine dorries, luke tryl, from the research group more in common who put together the groups of voters we met on wednesday, and labour mp

dr rosena allin—khan, who recently quit her job as shadow minister for mental health. but first, kemi. welcome to the studio this morning. how would you describe the mood of the country at the moment? something which i see in — the country at the moment? something which i see in my _ the country at the moment? something which i see in my constituency - the country at the moment? something which i see in my constituency in - which i see in my constituency in public meetings, there is a general sense of fear about the whole world but specifically their own personal security and that is one of the reasons why we are doing as much as we can to focus on things that matter to them and looking at bringing down inflation which we have been very successful at, continuing to grow the economy, having a plan to keep us going, make sure things are under control. we will be with you later in the programme. a quick catch up on what is making the news today. the sunday telegraph splashes with a story about shortages in the navy — later you'll here what the american top brass think about exactly that.

it also features kemi badenoch's sacking of the post office chairman. the sunday mirror claims the tories have rigged the election rules in their favour. the observer's front—page story says four people were given asylum here because of fears of persecution in rwanda, even though the government's argued it's a safe country. and the sunday times splashes on their investigation into universities — cash for courses, overseas students with fewer qualifications than uk candidates paying more to get in. a range of front pages, today, we will focus on what is going on in the mind of the public. for people who are not as obsessed with politics as we are, what are focus groups? what can we learn from them? why do politicians use them? the? why do politicians use them? they are not an opinion _ why do politicians use them? they are not an opinion poll. _ why do politicians use them? tie: are not an opinion poll. we will have lots of opinion polls in the run—up to the election, they will tell us who is ahead, they will tell us about the top issues, but opinion polls only get you so far. they can

give you the headline numbers but what they don't tell you is why people think those things. what is driving their attitudes? the real advantage of a focus group is you get to hear from advantage of a focus group is you get to hearfrom people in their own words, they get to tell you directly. it words, they get to tell you directl . . , words, they get to tell you directl . . ., , directly. it was certainly fascinating _ directly. it was certainly fascinating to _ directly. it was certainly fascinating to sit - directly. it was certainly fascinating to sit and i directly. it was certainly i fascinating to sit and listen directly. it was certainly - fascinating to sit and listen for hours to nearly 50 people. politicians use focus groups privately all the time, how fed up do you think the public is, nadine? rob aubrey worse than focus group demonstrated. the apathy, people have had _ demonstrated. the apathy, people have had enough —— probably worse. they are _ have had enough —— probably worse. they are dealing with real—life problems and sadly we have failed them _ problems and sadly we have failed them as_ problems and sadly we have failed them as a — problems and sadly we have failed them as a government because of our own intemat— them as a government because of our own internal warfare which has taken place _ own internal warfare which has taken place over— own internal warfare which has taken place over the last five years. realty— place over the last five years. really seriously worried about cost of living, _ really seriously worried about cost of living, they are worried about an incoming _ of living, they are worried about an incoming labour government and what that means, _ incoming labour government and what that means, as i am sure you will have _ that means, as i am sure you will have had — that means, as i am sure you will have had from people in your focus group, _ have had from people in your focus group, an— have had from people in your focus group, an incredibly worried about

how to _ group, an incredibly worried about how to meet the bills, pay rent, mortgage — how to meet the bills, pay rent, mortgage. a lot of people are about to come _ mortgage. a lot of people are about to come of— mortgage. a lot of people are about to come of two year mortgages on 1% and about— to come of two year mortgages on 1% and about to _ to come of two year mortgages on 1% and about to go up to 4—5%. people are realty— and about to go up to 4—5%. people are really suffering and we i am sad to say— are really suffering and we i am sad to say have — are really suffering and we i am sad to say have not helped and because of the _ to say have not helped and because of the mp5 — to say have not helped and because of the mps in my party... you sound like an opposition _ of the mps in my party... you sound like an opposition mp. _ of the mps in my party... you sound like an opposition mp. i _ of the mps in my party... you sound like an opposition mp. i am - of the mps in my party... you sound like an opposition mp. i am no - like an opposition mp. i am no labour supporter _ like an opposition mp. i am no labour supporter and - like an opposition mp. i am no labour supporter and i - like an opposition mp. i am no labour supporter and i tell- like an opposition mp. i am no i labour supporter and i tell you this, _ labour supporter and i tell you this, no— labour supporter and i tell you this, no love for keir starmer out on the _ this, no love for keir starmer out on the doorstep. we this, no love for keir starmer out on the doorstep.— this, no love for keir starmer out on the doorstep. we will hear from voters directly _ on the doorstep. we will hear from voters directly in _ on the doorstep. we will hear from voters directly in a _ on the doorstep. we will hear from voters directly in a few— on the doorstep. we will hear from voters directly in a few minutes. i voters directly in a few minutes. your constituency in south london sometimes a marginal constituency, but you have won and held onto it, what is the mood of voters there, rosena? do you detect love for keir starmer? ., , ., , ., starmer? people are fed up of the pantomime _ starmer? people are fed up of the pantomime that _ starmer? people are fed up of the pantomime that has _ starmer? people are fed up of the pantomime that has played - starmer? people are fed up of the pantomime that has played out. starmer? people are fed up of the | pantomime that has played out for the last— pantomime that has played out for the last few— pantomime that has played out for the last few years _ pantomime that has played out for the last few years and _ pantomime that has played out for the last few years and a _ the last few years and a conservative _ the last few years and a . conservative government. the last few years and a - conservative government. there the last few years and a _ conservative government. there is a huge _ conservative government. there is a huge amount— conservative government. there is a huge amount of— conservative government. there is a huge amount of distrust _ conservative government. there is a huge amount of distrust over- conservative government. there is a huge amount of distrust over how i conservative government. there is al huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic— huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic was— huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic was handled, _ huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic was handled, there - huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic was handled, there is- huge amount of distrust over how the pandemic was handled, there is a i pandemic was handled, there is a lack pandemic was handled, there is a tack of— pandemic was handled, there is a tack of any— pandemic was handled, there is a

lack of any belief— pandemic was handled, there is a lack of any belief rishi _ pandemic was handled, there is a lack of any belief rishi sunak- pandemic was handled, there is a lack of any belief rishi sunak is i lack of any belief rishi sunak is going _ lack of any belief rishi sunak is going to — lack of any belief rishi sunak is going to deliver— lack of any belief rishi sunak is going to deliver any— lack of any belief rishi sunak is going to deliver any kind - lack of any belief rishi sunak is going to deliver any kind of- going to deliver any kind of government— going to deliver any kind of government that _ going to deliver any kind of government that works. i going to deliver any kind ofl government that works. fed going to deliver any kind of- government that works. fed up of people _ government that works. fed up of people being _ government that works. fed up of people heing an— government that works. fed up of people being an mp _ government that works. fed up of people being an mp one _ government that works. fed up of people being an mp one minute i government that works. fed up of l people being an mp one minute and auditioning — people being an mp one minute and auditioning for— people being an mp one minute and auditioning for shows _ people being an mp one minute and auditioning for shows to _ people being an mp one minute and auditioning for shows to become i auditioning for shows to become reality— auditioning for shows to become reality tv — auditioning for shows to become reality tv politicians the - auditioning for shows to become reality tv politicians the rest i auditioning for shows to become reality tv politicians the rest ofl reality tv politicians the rest of the time — reality tv politicians the rest of the time. keir— reality tv politicians the rest of the time. keir is— reality tv politicians the rest of the time. keir is not— reality tv politicians the rest of| the time. keir is not auditioning for a _ the time. keir is not auditioning fora stand-up— the time. keir is not auditioning for a stand—up show, _ the time. keir is not auditioning for a stand—up show, i'm - the time. keir is not auditioning for a stand—up show, i'm a i for a stand—up show, i'm a celebrity, _ for a stand—up show, i'm a celebrity, he _ for a stand—up show, i'm a celebrity, he is— for a stand—up show, i'm a celebrity, he is a _ for a stand—up show, i'm a celebrity, he is a credible, | for a stand—up show, i'm a - celebrity, he is a credible, serious politician — celebrity, he is a credible, serious politician. people _ celebrity, he is a credible, serious politician. people are _ celebrity, he is a credible, serious politician. people are fearful. i celebrity, he is a credible, seriousl politician. people are fearful. when it comes _ politician. people are fearful. when it comes down _ politician. people are fearful. when it comes down to _ politician. people are fearful. when it comes down to it, _ politician. people are fearful. when it comes down to it, people - politician. people are fearful. when it comes down to it, people don't. it comes down to it, people don't trust _ it comes down to it, people don't trust politicians. _ it comes down to it, people don't trust politicians. they— it comes down to it, people don't trust politicians. they simply- it comes down to it, people don'tl trust politicians. they simply want to know. — trust politicians. they simply want to know. how _ trust politicians. they simply want to know, how will— trust politicians. they simply want to know, how will they _ trust politicians. they simply want to know, how will they feed - trust politicians. they simply want to know, how will they feed their. to know, how will they feed their children? — to know, how will they feed their children? how— to know, how will they feed their children? how will— to know, how will they feed their children? how will they - to know, how will they feed their children? how will they get i to know, how will they feed their children? how will they get a i to know, how will they feed their children? how will they get a gp| children? how will they get a gp appointment? _ children? how will they get a gp appointment? let— children? how will they get a gp appointment?— children? how will they get a gp a- ointment? , ., ., , ., , appointment? let us hear what people had to say because _ appointment? let us hear what people had to say because politicians - appointment? let us hear what people had to say because politicians is i had to say because politicians is about serving the public, getting things done on your behalf. we wanted to spend one of our sundays together really delving into what's on voters' minds. with the help of luke's research group, we invited nearly 50 voters from seats that went from red to blue at the last general election to give us their verdicts. it's not scientific, but the groups were carefully

selected to represent the full gamut — loyal tories, faithful labour voters, conservatives who plan to switch to labour, those interested in the smaller parties, lib dems, greens, and reform uk, and those undecided whose ballots are still up for grabs. so watch, and listen, our politicians are too, here's a taste of britain in a room. how would you sum up britain in 202a? depressing. terrible state we're in. dishonest and messed up. falling apart. i think we're a country in crisis. i think it's the worst it's ever been. i remember, everyone coming here today are in seats that were labour until borisjohnson turned them blue in 2019. we've gathered together voters from all sorts of different backgrounds. young, old, tory, labour,

and those who yet haven't a clue who they'll choose. funnily enough, me and stephen dated 25 years ago. onlyjust met again! here we go. what comes to mind when you see this person? we're not allowed to swear, are we? no swearing! you can be rude, of course. he was beaten by liz truss, who was also useless. so the fact that he was second place to her is baffling. incompetent cretin. lack of gravitas. nice guy, but weak. there's nothing like hearing it direct from the voter's mouth. no personality. you need a personality to rule. it's like reading from a script when he talks. yeah, he doesn't have charisma. yeah. i think he's very arrogant because he's obviously... he's, like, got more money than he knows what to do with. i would say out of touch because i don't think he understands

what the ordinary people go through. yeah, i see privilege, _ and i think that means that he's l kind of out of touch with the lot . of common man that he's supposed to be representing as well. i think he thinks he's doing a good job, but he's not connected with us. no, not at all connected to real people, he just doesn't understand. he's wealthy. he's got no idea what it's like. for me, i feel like there's a real disconnect with the working i class and people that are really struggling. | i don't think that being wealthy means you're disconnected. he's good or he's bad. people in this country don't like successful people. they're very bitter that they're not like them. and that's why i think everybody resents him. i don't think he's out of touch. ijust think the problems he has are so vast. i i thought he did a marvellous job as a chancellor. give him a chance. borisjohnson, for me, was more relatable. i think in rishi sunak's role as chancellor, he supported me in my role at that time and helped me out a lot. ijust think they were a strong pair together when boris was prime minister. even among this group

of tory voters who say they want to stick with the party, the view of the country is so bleak and they've clearly had enough of the conservatives fighting amongst themselves. no wonder he can't get anything done because there's fighting and bickering. they all want to be prime minister. you said rishi sunak lacks gravitas. unfortunately, i don't think he has that presence and i think having a presence within an organisation means a lot, certainly in the environments that i've always worked in. the polls suggest the government's been unpopularfor a long time, but that's not necessarily the same thing as feeling excited about keir starmer. what's the first thing that comes to mind when you see this person? dull. a bit boring, to be honest with you, i don't think he's the strongest of leaders. i don't look at him and think, "he's the one that's - going to come and save us." he's very big on saying what he's going to do, but not on how. i don't think we know enough about him.

i mean, he's basicallyjust come onto the scene. i i mean, he's come on the scene and said, "we'll do this, this and this." but where's the money coming from to do this, this and this? i don't know what he actually believes. i think everything he says is to try and win the majority over. and then when he gets it wrong, he'll quickly realise and correct himself and then just look stupid. whereas i thinkjeremy corbyn was more... ..like, more grounded with his beliefs. i'd rather somebody that was either here or there, not somewhere in between. i don't think he's a working class leader. and i associate the labour party with working class people. i'm surprised that he accepted i the knighthood because it seems strange to have a labour leader who's knighted _ who would be in his cabinet? that's my fear. i don't think it'd be too long before they oust him. and we'll go back to the corbynite era. god forbid. i think his kind of popularity has been helped kind of by default

because of the backlash of the conservatives. i think you can only reallyjudge him kind of when he's in power. i do actually think he's got integrity. i do think he will try. but i do think he's got a big task ahead. this group all say they're going to vote labour. they voted labour last time. but it was really striking. there's no sense of passion for keir starmer. still some question marks of what he's really about. everyone in that room says they're going to vote labour, but nobody in that room felt like they were excited about keir starmer. no, because you don't know anything about, i don't know anything about him. to me, he's sort ofjust popped up out of nowhere. there's a lot of weight on his shoulders, a lot of expectation about him coming in and being more moderate and maybe running away with this thing. and it's not a given. a lot can happen between now and the election. i do like him, but ijust don't know if he'd be strong enough _ with what's happening. oh, no! i've got mixed up with him and nigel farage. he looks nothing like nigel farage! it's not nigel farage, it's keir starmer. i

again and again, our voters have shared stories of how the health service just isn't up to scratch. it's obviously at the top of many people's list. waiting times for hospitals and virtually impossible to get an appointment. you're waiting just to see the doctor over a week, and by that time you are better. you don't want to go back to the doctors or see the doctor. i have a heart condition. and obviously i had to contact| the hospital cos i've waited 26 weeks up to now and i still haven't got an appointment. _ and then they told me i had to wait because the waitingl list is up to 70 weeks. obviously, with me being a senior carer, there's times i have to ring 111. and the wait times for the ambulances are ridiculous. you know, your family doctor, you knew your family doctor. you went to a surgery and you saw the same doctor. now it's multiple health centres. there must be a different way- because how long can you throw money all the time without looking and saying, we're really not

sorting the problem? people tend to work in the nhs for 20, 30, a0 years and they don't seem to have fresh blood coming in with new ideas. so people do what they do because they do what they do and so it never develops. and they don't necessarily look from the bottom upwards how they can improve things. it's always from the top downwards. i graduated as a nurse. so i've done three years of placement in hospitals and i've seen first—hand how the nurses work, how the doctors are. and it's not valued enough. and i really don't know if i want to work as a nurse in this country right now. why did you want to leave the uk? i don't want to be like living paycheque to paycheque and i don't want to be worrying about, you know, doing these long hours and is my son all right at home, you know, if i can have flexible working and if i can have, let's say, do agency working and receive like triple the amount of money, you know? anything else? the cost of living crisis is having a big impact on us. being able to go out and socialise isjust so much more expensive, going to the supermarket, your bills are so much

more expensive. every time you go into the shop, the prices have gone up. - i'm a student and i can barely afford to eat some weeks. i've got two older boys and it's just worrying to how they're going to get on the housing market. high inflation is something that worries me. _ i know it's come down a lot, i but it's still quite high and it's because of that it's keeping all the other prices up. i when you're retired, your income's not keeping up with inflation. so along with the cost of living is our childcare costs, which are astronomical. this is a first world country. however, there is so much of a difference between, i you know, the highest pay, - the wealthy and the ordinary people. the other thing i was going to say is about the environment, you know, they're delaying plans in certain policies. i think they were going to do it by like 2035. and then now they're extending that to like 2050, like the net zero policy. yeah, it's just a bit of a concern for like our kids, our grandkids. this group all plumped

for the conservatives in 2019, but they've changed their vote to labour. so why? the boris moment and all that came out about what he was doing in the lockdown and everything. there's people like me, you know, where my father actually died in covid, you know, so that was a very sad time. i'm so sorry to hear that you lost your dad during the pandemic. when you found out some of the things that been happening in government, how did that make you feel? really sad, but like frustrated as well. you know, like, so many lives had been lost, you know, and then, you know, conservatives, you know, they're all having these parties. you know, they're not social distancing. there's a couple of reasons that keep being mentioned, that cover the switch from tory to labour. partygate, the long memories of covid and what liz truss got up to. i think it's frightening how two people managed to destroy 10 million people's mortgages in the space of three days. and is that what shifted your vote?

yes, basically. and do you see a day when the tories will get your vote back? they'll have to work hard at it. the actual tipping point for me was when rishi sunak, when the h52 was cancelled for the north and then he actually said, "oh, it's ok, we're going to give manchester, we're going to give them the tram link to the airport." and then he actually didn't. he named an area, it was like not even in the north. the only thing that they've promised us for years and, you know, - they've scrapped it. he's not interested at all in in any regeneration of the north or anything like that. i do think this divide is getting bigger and that was when i decided that i need to change who gets my vote. i think we've all been conditioned to not really expect too much and this isjust the norm and it really shouldn't be, as they're public servants. we used to be a major power, and now we're floating like a little, little island of non—existence.

if you could pick anybody, politician or not, to run the country, who'd do the bestjob at running the country, who would that be? carol vorderman would be an absolutely brilliant prime minister. 0h, absolutely. alex ferguson. alex ferguson, 0k. alan sugar, because he wouldn't take any nonsense from the boardroom. i would say martin lewis. oh, yeah. martin lewis. oh. yes! — i would like martin lewis. martin lewis. martin lewis, absolutely, yeah. he's got a grip of everything. he's very good, isn't he? he'd make a good prime minister. we've heard from nearly 50 voters here today from all sorts of different backgrounds. it's given us a snapshot of britain in a room. but it's hard not to conclude from their conversations that our politics is in a lot of trouble. there's a deep well of worry about the state of the country and a sense a change of government is probably on the way. but you don't really detect much faith that a new operation

in number ten would transform lives. there is, though, remember, probably about ten months to go. kemi badenoch was watching along, the business secretary, who also ran to be tory leader. she is here in the studio for the first time — she is here in the studio for the first time. when you hear voters tatking _ first time. when you hear voters talking about the prime minister, giving _ talking about the prime minister, giving their honest view, not strong enough. _ giving their honest view, not strong enough, out of touch, a nice guy but weak, _ enough, out of touch, a nice guy but weak. even — enough, out of touch, a nice guy but weak, even conservative voters are not convinced by him, so how do you address— not convinced by him, so how do you address them, what you say to voters? — address them, what you say to voters? �* , . , , voters? it's really interesting watchinu voters? it's really interesting watching that _ voters? it's really interesting watching that focus - voters? it's really interesting watching that focus group. i l voters? it's really interesting i watching that focus group. i think three things jumped out at me. actually, a lotjumped up at three main things. the first is that people clearly wants to see a lot more hope and optimism about the country. we have a plan and that is what we are using in order to show people how we are going to make the

uk better. we need to do much more of that. i thought it was quite interesting the contrast between keir starmer and rishi sunak, which goes to show that there is everything to play for in this election. people act as if us losing power and not being in government is a fait accompli, clearly not true listening to that. and the third one was just about how people are fed up with a lot of the toxicity i would say in politics at the moment, where it looks like people are interested in their own personal ambitions rather than for people in the country. that is definitely something which i will be able to address today. irate something which i will be able to address today.— something which i will be able to address toda . ~ . ., ., ., address today. we will come to that. peo - le address today. we will come to that. peole are address today. we will come to that. people are concerned _ address today. we will come to that. people are concerned also _ address today. we will come to that. people are concerned also about i address today. we will come to that. people are concerned also about real big problems in their own lives. michael father of six being told he has a 70 week weight for cardiac treatment, some weeks that student could not afford to eat, it's more than people being hit up the toxicity, many people think the

conservatives have failed them. what conservatives have failed them. what i would sa conservatives have failed them. what i would say and _ conservatives have failed them. what i would say and i _ conservatives have failed them. what i would say and i have _ conservatives have failed them. “wrist i would say and i have insight being the international trade secretary, is a look at what is happening in other countries. 0ver is a look at what is happening in other countries. over the last few days there have been protests in germany, france, romania, poland, the netherlands, about these same issues. we are not alone in them. inflation is not a uk specific problem. inflation is not a uk specific problem-— inflation is not a uk specific roblem. . �*, ., ., ., ., problem. that's not a comfort for --eole problem. that's not a comfort for people here _ problem. that's not a comfort for people here though, _ problem. that's not a comfort for people here though, is _ problem. that's not a comfort for people here though, is it? it i problem. that's not a comfort for people here though, is it? it isn't a comfort. _ people here though, is it? it isn't a comfort. the — people here though, is it? it isn't a comfort, the comfort _ people here though, is it? it isn't a comfort, the comfort is - people here though, is it? it isn't a comfort, the comfort is that i a comfort, the comfort is that despite all of those difficulties, we are doing better than those other countries. i know and i completely understand, i have been in that situation before, not having enough money to look after yourself. but we are doing everything we can in order to deal with those global issues. energy costs, inflation, still the fallout of covid, all of the money we spend there had an inflationary effect. we have someone in the prime minister who knows what he's doing, who is very competent, who running the economy now well and will continue to do so. if we stick with

his plan we will be able to solve all of the problems that those people came up with. if all of the problems that those people came up with.- all of the problems that those people came up with. if that's the case, wh people came up with. if that's the case. why don't — people came up with. if that's the case, why don't people _ people came up with. if that's the case, why don't people believe i people came up with. if that's the i case, why don't people believe that? it's a great question. i can give you my theory, this is not a party line. there is now too much in terms of personality politics, there's too much reporting i would say, westminster gossip, one of your panel has written an entire book mostly conspiracy theories, people are hearing all sorts of things that are hearing all sorts of things that are not true about what we are doing and the focus is no longer on the work for instance that i'm doing but on perhaps whether i am interested in being in prime minister. it is all distraction.— all distraction. your colleagues don't believe _ all distraction. your colleagues don't believe this _ all distraction. your colleagues don't believe this is _ all distraction. your colleagues don't believe this is all- all distraction. your colleagues don't believe this is all a i don't believe this is all a distraction. just this week a former cabinet minister colleague of yours simon clarke said the leadership is uninspiring and rishi sunak has gone from an asset to an anchor. there are genuine concerns inside your own

party that he is not up to the job. i think it's really critical to remind people that there are 350 conservative mps. 0ne remind people that there are 350 conservative mps. one person wrote an article saying that he was unhappy. i called him, after that, and asked him what he was doing, because this is exactly the sort of thing that we have to stop doing in public. we can have private discussions about what is going on, and i think it is healthy for us to have a debate, for there to not be a debate is unhealthy. but to argue in front of the public is contributing to the belief that we are more focused on internal matters than external matters and that is not true. we are very much focused on the priorities of the country, that's why richey had his five priorities. that's why richey had his five priorities— that's why richey had his five riorities. ~ , ., ~ ., priorities. whether you like it or not, and yorkie _ priorities. whether you like it or not, and yorkie frustrated. i i priorities. whether you like it or not, and yorkie frustrated. i amj not, and yorkie frustrated. i am frustrated- _ not, and yorkie frustrated. i am frustrated. your _ not, and yorkie frustrated. i am frustrated. your colleagues i not, and yorkie frustrated. i am frustrated. your colleagues do i frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. _ frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. it _ frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. it is _ frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. it is a _ frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. it is a minority i frustrated. your colleagues do discuss the. it is a minority of| discuss the. it is a minority of them. discuss the. it is a minority of them- iout _ discuss the. it is a minority of

them. but they _ discuss the. it is a minority of them. but they do, _ discuss the. it is a minority of them. but they do, and i discuss the. it is a minority of them. but they do, and even | discuss the. it is a minority of i them. but they do, and even this mornin: them. but they do, and even this morning you _ them. but they do, and even this morning you are _ them. but they do, and even this morning you are described i them. but they do, and even this morning you are described in i them. but they do, and even this morning you are described in the | morning you are described in the papers as kemi is in pole position with the rebels, she can beat keir starmer. you are obviously frustrated with the speculation, so do you deny that you have had discussions with the rebels? apart discussions with the rebels? apart from calling _ discussions with the rebels? apart from calling simon _ discussions with the rebels? apart from calling simon to _ discussions with the rebels? apart from calling simon to tell- discussions with the rebels? apart from calling simon to tell him i discussions with the rebels? v—r from calling simon to tell him to stop what he is doing, absolutely. i would say that all of these things you are reading our anonymous briefings. i pick up the paper and hear that an anonymous friend of mine said this and that, my friends would never do that, they care about me. the people staring don't care about me, my family or my welfare, or whether or not this is something i actually want. this is all about them and their personal interests, but they are not that many. the vast majority of people are focused on making sure that the parliamentary party is working to deliver a conservative. d0 party is working to deliver a conservative.— party is working to deliver a conservative. , ., ., , conservative. do you however still have aspirations _ conservative. do you however still have aspirations to _ conservative. do you however still have aspirations to lead _ conservative. do you however still have aspirations to lead the i conservative. do you however still| have aspirations to lead the party? you did dad julie run as leader. ——

you did stand to run as leader. in you did stand to run as leader. in july 22, i did and i lost. if you had asked me injanuary 22, i would have laughed it off and said it was crazy. you never really know until you are in the moment. i would remind people that after liz truss left i said i would not be running again, rishi is the person who should do thejob, and i did so because i worked with him in the treasury, i knew he had a handle on the economy. but i also saw during the economy. but i also saw during the previous leadership campaign have any nasty and unpleasant personal attacks he had been getting, i thought he was a good guy and it was the team i wanted to be on, not on the table of the bullies and the people putting up nasty personal abuse, the team of the people who are delivering for the country. people who are delivering for the count . �* , people who are delivering for the count . v . ~ people who are delivering for the count . �*, ., ,, ., people who are delivering for the count. �*, ., ,, ., country. let's talk about your “ob, there was a _ country. let's talk about your “ob, there was a dramatici country. let's talk about your “ob, there was a dramatic event i country. let's talk about yourjob, there was a dramatic event last i there was a dramatic event last night, as the business secretary, you removed the chair of the post office after all of the things that office after all of the things that have gone wrong. why did you get had

resorted to stand down, what were your concerns? == resorted to stand down, what were your concerns?— your concerns? -- why did you get him to stand _ your concerns? -- why did you get him to stand down? _ your concerns? -- why did you get him to stand down? when - your concerns? -- why did you get him to stand down? when i i your concerns? -- why did you get. him to stand down? when i became business secretary, i was really focused on three things. number one, get the money out of the door, i didn't want people to die without having the conversation. from the post office — having the conversation. from the post office stop _ having the conversation. from the post office stop yes, _ having the conversation. from the post office stop yes, i _ having the conversation. from the post office stop yes, i talked i having the conversation. from the | post office stop yes, i talked about that. ,, . ., ., ., post office stop yes, i talked about that. ,, .., ., ., ., ,, post office stop yes, i talked about that. ,, ., ., ., ,, , that. second i wanted to make sure that. second i wanted to make sure that everything _ that. second i wanted to make sure that everything was _ that. second i wanted to make sure that everything was fair, _ that. second i wanted to make sure that everything was fair, not - that. second i wanted to make sure that everything was fair, notjust i that everything was fair, notjust getting money out of the door but that the money was the right amount and what we were doing was fair. the third one was looking at the governance around the post office and that is where wright decided that we needed a new chair of the organisation was there, it wasn't working. organisation was there, it wasn't workinu. ~ ., .,, organisation was there, it wasn't workine. . . .,, ., .,, organisation was there, it wasn't workine. . . ., ., working. what was it about, was at the row about _ working. what was it about, was at the row about post _ working. what was it about, was at the row about post office - working. what was it about, was at the row about post office bonusesl the row about post office bonuses being paid while the scandal of horizon was still going?- being paid while the scandal of horizon was still going? there were vafious horizon was still going? there were various disagreements _ horizon was still going? there were various disagreements within i horizon was still going? there were various disagreements within the i various disagreements within the board. and when i looked at it i

thought a change of personnel was required. i don't want to do hr in live tv, these are humans that we are talking about, it is difficult to be asked to stand out from their position but i decided to give in all of the difficulties the post office is having, notjust arise about the entire business model, making it work, —— notjust arise in, we needed someone who could deal with it effectively. this in, we needed someone who could deal with it effectively.— with it effectively. this whole saga has been a — with it effectively. this whole saga has been a complete _ with it effectively. this whole saga has been a complete mess, - with it effectively. this whole saga - has been a complete mess, successive governments have failed to grip it or even scale of the problem. one of our viewers is angry and has suggested, if henry staunton resides, shouldn't kemi badenoch also resigned to be accountable for everything at the most of his? i don't think so. firstly i don't think that people understand what happens at the post office. i am the

sole share holder so that it does make sense if i resign. i have constituents who have come to me after the itv drama affected by this. it's very interesting how a drama can bring attention to what is happening. made a speech referencing the horizon scandal, people said, is this a speech for the leadership, people don't focus on the work we are doing, there is too much time on tittle tattle and gossip. we have been working very hard, we put a bill through before the drama was aired in december sure people can get their money quickly.— aired in december sure people can get their money quickly. would you ut a get their money quickly. would you put a specific _ get their money quickly. would you put a specific deadline _ get their money quickly. would you put a specific deadline on _ put a specific deadline on getting it done? we asked the prime minister if he would set us a deadline that he wouldn't, would you? the prime minister has _ he wouldn't, would you? the prime minister has said _ he wouldn't, would you? the prime minister has said we _ he wouldn't, would you? the prime minister has said we are _ he wouldn't, would you? the prime minister has said we are not - he wouldn't, would you? the primei minister has said we are not setting a deadline, we are going to move as quickly as possible. there are

always issues with setting deadlines, i say this as well with free trade agreements, you put a date other people rush and get things wrong. we are as quickly as we can, we cannot move any faster. there is an inquiry or going and some stuff has to happen with fujitsu so there are multiple moving parts. getting the deadline is not the priority, getting the fair money out is the critical thing. so the priority, getting the fair money out is the critical thing.— out is the critical thing. so much as we could _ out is the critical thing. so much as we could have _ out is the critical thing. so much as we could have talked - out is the critical thing. so much as we could have talked about . out is the critical thing. so much i as we could have talked about but out is the critical thing. so much - as we could have talked about but it is great to have you with us this morning. we have been hearing from you this morning, members of the public. let us know what you think. you can send us an e—mail or use the hashtag. let's see what our trio at the desk made of what voters and kemi badenoch had to say. as you said at the top, very clear there is a lot of disillusionment with the conservatives, nadine, also very clear people who are switching votes because they think boris

johnson and downand because liz truss blew up the economy. you nominated liz truss and backed boris johnson, it is on you? fin nominated liz truss and backed boris johnson, it is on you?— johnson, it is on you? on the doorstep. — johnson, it is on you? on the doorstep. they _ johnson, it is on you? on the doorstep, they don't - johnson, it is on you? on the doorstep, they don't say - johnson, it is on you? on the doorstep, they don't say to i doorstep, they don't say to conservative mps canvassing, i voted for borisjohnson to vote against jeremy corbyn, they say i voted for borisjohnson. we were five points behind in the polls on the day boris johnson was moved. we are now —20. i would like to thank kemi badenoch for the plug for the book and the book actually exposes in detail her particular role in the removal of borisjohnson and it also predicts a number of things that are happening now, such as those who plotted to remove borisjohnson would turn against rishi sunak very soon, which they are doing. many of the predictions made are playing out right now. she predictions made are playing out riaht now. ,, ., , , ., right now. she has left the studio, we cannot put _ right now. she has left the studio, we cannot put that _ right now. she has left the studio, we cannot put that point _ right now. she has left the studio, we cannot put that point to - right now. she has left the studio, we cannot put that point to her, i right now. she has left the studio, l we cannot put that point to her, but the point she was making, people who

enjoy stirring the pot should shut up, she completely denied she had anything to do... i up, she completely denied she had anything to do. . .— anything to do... i would suggest she takes her— anything to do... i would suggest she takes her own _ anything to do... i would suggest she takes her own advice. - anything to do... i would suggest she takes her own advice. kemi l she takes her own advice. kemi badenoch launched a failed leadership... a botched leadership bid against rishi sunak last december. the people she works without the same people who removed borisjohnson and they should actually... although rishi sunak was actually... although rishi sunak was a key part of wasjohnson. they should get behind rishi sunak. what should get behind rishi sunak. what do ou should get behind rishi sunak. what do you mean — should get behind rishi sunak. what do you mean they — should get behind rishi sunak. what do you mean they should get behind rishi sunak?— rishi sunak? kemi badenoch and others, robert _ rishi sunak? kemi badenoch and others, robert jenrick, _ rishi sunak? kemi badenoch and others, robert jenrick, they - rishi sunak? kemi badenoch and others, robert jenrick, they are i rishi sunak? kemi badenoch and i others, robert jenrick, they are out others, robertjenrick, they are out for themselves, they are not out for the benefit of the individuals in the benefit of the individuals in the country and the citizens. when they removed borisjohnson, we have had years of chaos. years of chaos while they were doing it. no benefit... there has been a moral and professional dereliction of

their duty to do what they were elected to do, serve the people. they are serving themselves. kemi badenoch is one of those people. they want to be both prime minister and leader of the conservative party. and leader of the conservative pa . , ., ., party. our viewers will have heard her family deny — party. our viewers will have heard her family deny she _ party. our viewers will have heard her family deny she does - party. our viewers will have heard her family deny she does not - party. our viewers will have heard her family deny she does not have anything to do with rumours and plots. —— heard her deny. shaking your head, but in our groups, it is very clear there really isn't a lot of love for keir starmer, not a scientific group, but carefully selected, what explains that lack of enthusiasm? i selected, what explains that lack of enthusiasm?— enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you _ enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you have _ enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you have a _ enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you have a cost _ enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you have a cost of- enthusiasm? i am shaking my head because you have a cost of living i because you have a cost of living crisis. _ because you have a cost of living crisis. prevale— because you have a cost of living crisis, people cannot _ because you have a cost of living crisis, people cannot feed - because you have a cost of living crisis, people cannot feed their. crisis, people cannot feed their children. — crisis, people cannot feed their children, cannot _ crisis, people cannot feed their children, cannot see _ crisis, people cannot feed their children, cannot see a - crisis, people cannot feed their children, cannot see a doctor, i crisis, people cannot feed their. children, cannot see a doctor, or crisis, people cannot feed their- children, cannot see a doctor, or we have _ children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen— children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen for— children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen for the _ children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen for the last _ children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen for the last ten _ children, cannot see a doctor, or we have seen for the last ten minutes l have seen for the last ten minutes is tittle _ have seen for the last ten minutes is tittle tattle _ have seen for the last ten minutes is tittle tattle and _ have seen for the last ten minutes is tittle tattle and fighting - is tittle tattle and fighting between _ is tittle tattle and fighting between politicians, - is tittle tattle and fighting between politicians, the l is tittle tattle and fighting. between politicians, the very is tittle tattle and fighting - between politicians, the very thing that causes— between politicians, the very thing that causes the _ between politicians, the very thing that causes the mistrust. - between politicians, the very thing that causes the mistrust. inth?- between politicians, the very thing that causes the mistrust.— that causes the mistrust. why the voters... please, _ that causes the mistrust. why the voters... please, nadine, - that causes the mistrust. why the voters... please, nadine, pipe. that causes the mistrust. why the - voters... please, nadine, pipe down. wh were voters... please, nadine, pipe down.

why were the — voters... please, nadine, pipe down. why were the voters _ voters... please, nadine, pipe down. why were the voters not _ voters... please, nadine, pipe down. why were the voters not saying, - why were the voters not saying, thank _ why were the voters not saying, thank goodness, _ why were the voters not saying, thank goodness, something - why were the voters not saying, - thank goodness, something fabulous on the _ thank goodness, something fabulous on the table? — thank goodness, something fabulous on the table? you _ thank goodness, something fabulous on the table? you are _ thank goodness, something fabulous on the table? you are absolutely- on the table? you are absolutely right, _ on the table? you are absolutely right, it — on the table? you are absolutely right, it made _ on the table? you are absolutely right, it made for— on the table? you are absolutely right, it made for difficult - right, it made for difficult watching _ right, it made for difficult watching i_ right, it made for difficult watching. i would - right, it made for difficult watching. i would say, i right, it made for difficult i watching. iwould say, bring right, it made for difficult - watching. i would say, bring on the general— watching. i would say, bring on the general election. _ watching. i would say, bring on the general election. what _ watching. i would say, bring on the general election. what we - watching. i would say, bring on the general election. what we have - watching. i would say, bring on the i general election. what we have seen in the _ general election. what we have seen in the north—west _ general election. what we have seen in the north—west where _ general election. what we have seen in the north—west where i— general election. what we have seen in the north—west where i believe - in the north—west where i believe the focus — in the north—west where i believe the focus groups _ in the north—west where i believe the focus groups came _ in the north—west where i believe the focus groups came from, - in the north—west where i believe. the focus groups came from, three parliamentary— the focus groups came from, three parliamentary by—elections - the focus groups came from, three parliamentary by—elections where i parliamentary by—elections where labour _ parliamentary by—elections where labour have — parliamentary by—elections where labour have had _ parliamentary by—elections where labour have had increased - labour have had increased majorities, _ labour have had increased majorities, for— labour have had increased majorities, for example i labour have had increased i majorities, for example west lancashire _ majorities, for example west lancashire and _ majorities, for example west lancashire and chester. - majorities, for example west lancashire and chester. we l majorities, for example west - lancashire and chester. we have had council— lancashire and chester. we have had council by—elections_ lancashire and chester. we have had council by—elections where _ lancashire and chester. we have had council by—elections where the - council by—elections where the councils — council by—elections where the councils have _ council by—elections where the councils have gone _ council by—elections where the councils have gone from - council by—elections where the councils have gone from no . council by—elections where the - councils have gone from no overall control— councils have gone from no overall control to — councils have gone from no overall control to now _ councils have gone from no overall control to now being _ councils have gone from no overall control to now being labour. - councils have gone from no overall control to now being labour. i- councils have gone from no overall. control to now being labour. i would say, take _ control to now being labour. i would say, take it — control to now being labour. i would say, take it to— control to now being labour. i would say, take it to the _ control to now being labour. i would say, take it to the voters, _ control to now being labour. i would say, take it to the voters, let - say, take it to the voters, let rishi — say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak. _ say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak, if— say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak, if he _ say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak, if he can, - say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak, if he can, if- say, take it to the voters, let rishi sunak, if he can, if he i say, take it to the voters, let - rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels brave _ rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels brave enough. _ rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels brave enough, let _ rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels brave enough, let the _ rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels brave enough, let the voters - rishi sunak, if he can, if he feels- brave enough, let the voters decide. the point _ brave enough, let the voters decide. the point is, — brave enough, let the voters decide. the point is, it— brave enough, let the voters decide. the point is, it was— brave enough, let the voters decide. the point is, it was absolutely- the point is, it was absolutely tangible your leader is not creating a sense of hope or excitement in the country from that group. there were labour voters saying, i don't know what he stands for. would it be better if he took clearer positions and didn't change his mind on so many things? i and didn't change his mind on so many things?—

many things? i think it is really important _ many things? i think it is really important to — many things? i think it is really important to instill— many things? i think it is really important to instill trust - many things? i think it is really important to instill trust when l important to instill trust when asking — important to instill trust when asking people _ important to instill trust when asking people to _ important to instill trust when asking people to vote - important to instill trust when asking people to vote for- important to instill trust when asking people to vote for you i important to instill trust when . asking people to vote for you and your party— asking people to vote for you and your party and _ asking people to vote for you and your party and you _ asking people to vote for you and your party and you want - asking people to vote for you and your party and you want to - asking people to vote for you and your party and you want to make | asking people to vote for you and i your party and you want to make the case about _ your party and you want to make the case about being _ your party and you want to make the case about being prime _ your party and you want to make the case about being prime minister, - your party and you want to make the | case about being prime minister, you have to _ case about being prime minister, you have to set _ case about being prime minister, you have to set out — case about being prime minister, you have to set out your— case about being prime minister, you have to set out your stall _ case about being prime minister, you have to set out your stall and - case about being prime minister, you have to set out your stall and in - case about being prime minister, you have to set out your stall and in a - have to set out your stall and in a way where — have to set out your stall and in a way where people _ have to set out your stall and in a way where people do _ have to set out your stall and in a way where people do understandl have to set out your stall and in a - way where people do understand what you stand _ way where people do understand what you stand for — way where people do understand what you stand for and _ way where people do understand what you stand for and understand - way where people do understand what you stand for and understand the - you stand for and understand the tangible — you stand for and understand the tangible difference _ you stand for and understand the tangible difference they - you stand for and understand the tangible difference they are - you stand for and understand the| tangible difference they are going to get— tangible difference they are going to get if_ tangible difference they are going to get if you — tangible difference they are going to get if you are _ tangible difference they are going to get if you are prime _ tangible difference they are going to get if you are prime minister. to get if you are prime minister instead — to get if you are prime minister instead of— to get if you are prime minister instead of the _ to get if you are prime minister instead of the incumbent. - to get if you are prime minister| instead of the incumbent. what to get if you are prime minister. instead of the incumbent. what i to get if you are prime minister- instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you _ instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you is _ instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you is that — instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you is that i_ instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you is that i wasn't _ instead of the incumbent. what i can tell you is that i wasn't keir- tell you is that i wasn't keir starmer's _ tell you is that i wasn't keir starmer's shadow- tell you is that i wasn't keir starmer's shadow cabinet i tell you is that i wasn't keir. starmer's shadow cabinet for tell you is that i wasn't keir- starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a _ starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a half— starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a halfyears. _ starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a half years, he _ starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a half years, he has— starmer's shadow cabinet for three and a half years, he has incrediblel and a half years, he has incredible integrity. — and a half years, he has incredible integrity. there _ and a half years, he has incredible integrity, there are _ and a half years, he has incredible integrity, there are things- and a half years, he has incredible integrity, there are things where l integrity, there are things where language — integrity, there are things where language has— integrity, there are things where language has been— integrity, there are things where language has been used - integrity, there are things where language has been used by- language has been used by politicians. _ language has been used by politicians, for— language has been used by politicians, for example . language has been used by- politicians, for example towards staff in — politicians, for example towards staff in the — politicians, for example towards staff in the nhs _ politicians, for example towards staff in the nhs working - politicians, for example towards i staff in the nhs working incredibly hard _ staff in the nhs working incredibly hard my— staff in the nhs working incredibly hard my last _ staff in the nhs working incredibly hard. my last two _ staff in the nhs working incredibly hard. my last two shifts, - staff in the nhs working incredibly hard. my last two shifts, the - staff in the nhs working incredibly hard. my last two shifts, the last i hard. my last two shifts, the last two weekends, _ hard. my last two shifts, the last two weekends, i— hard. my last two shifts, the last two weekends, i have _ hard. my last two shifts, the last two weekends, i have done - hard. my last two shifts, the last two weekends, i have done 11- hard. my last two shifts, the last i two weekends, i have done 11 hours on the _ two weekends, i have done 11 hours on the trot. — two weekends, i have done 11 hours on the trot. and _ two weekends, i have done 11 hours on the trot, and doctors, _ two weekends, i have done 11 hours on the trot, and doctors, nurses, i on the trot, and doctors, nurses, working _ on the trot, and doctors, nurses, working incredibly— on the trot, and doctors, nurses, working incredibly hard, - on the trot, and doctors, nurses, working incredibly hard, often . on the trot, and doctors, nurses, i working incredibly hard, often told they are _ working incredibly hard, often told they are not — working incredibly hard, often told they are not working _ working incredibly hard, often told they are not working hard - working incredibly hard, often told they are not working hard enough, they are not working hard enough, they should — they are not working hard enough, they should do _ they are not working hard enough, they should do more _ they are not working hard enough, they should do more over- they are not working hard enough, they should do more over time, i they are not working hard enough, i they should do more over time, not valued _ they should do more over time, not valued those — they should do more over time, not valued. those things _ they should do more over time, not valued. those things are _ they should do more over time, not valued. those things are painful- they should do more over time, not| valued. those things are painful and they resonate — valued. those things are painful and they resonate. you _ valued. those things are painful and they resonate. you are _ valued. those things are painful and they resonate. you are referring - valued. those things are painful and they resonate. you are referring to i they resonate. you are referring to they resonate. you are referring to the comments _ they resonate. you are referring to the comments from _ they resonate. you are referring to the comments from wes _ they resonate. you are referring to the comments from wes streeting| they resonate. you are referring to - the comments from wes streeting from time to— the comments from wes streeting from time to time _ the comments from wes streeting from time to time. senior—

the comments from wes streeting from time to time. senior politicians - time to time. senior politicians have _ time to time. senior politicians have upset— time to time. senior politicians have upset people. _ time to time. senior politicians have upset people. you- time to time. senior politicians have upset people.— time to time. senior politicians have upset people. you are one of the mps who _ have upset people. you are one of the mps who rebelled _ have upset people. you are one of the mps who rebelled and - have upset people. you are one of the mps who rebelled and voted i have upset people. you are one of. the mps who rebelled and voted for a ceasefire in gaza which is not what keir starmer once. i ceasefire in gaza which is not what keir starmer once.— ceasefire in gaza which is not what keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not _ keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not wanting _ keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not wanting it _ keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not wanting it now, _ keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not wanting it now, he - keir starmer once. i cannot comment on him not wanting it now, he has- on him not wanting it now, he has called _ on him not wanting it now, he has called for— on him not wanting it now, he has called for a — on him not wanting it now, he has called for a sustainable _ on him not wanting it now, he has called for a sustainable ceasefire. | called for a sustainable ceasefire. they should — called for a sustainable ceasefire. they should have _ called for a sustainable ceasefire. they should have been _ called for a sustainable ceasefire. they should have been an - called for a sustainable ceasefire. . they should have been an immediate ceasefire. _ they should have been an immediate ceasefire, release _ they should have been an immediate ceasefire, release of— they should have been an immediate ceasefire, release of hostages, - ceasefire, release of hostages, those _ ceasefire, release of hostages, those who _ ceasefire, release of hostages, those who committed - ceasefire, release of hostages, those who committed the - ceasefire, release of hostages, i those who committed the terrorist attacks _ those who committed the terrorist attacks on — those who committed the terrorist attacks on the _ those who committed the terrorist attacks on the 7th _ those who committed the terrorist attacks on the 7th of— those who committed the terrorist attacks on the 7th of october- those who committed the terrorist| attacks on the 7th of october must face justice — attacks on the 7th of october must face justice we _ attacks on the 7th of october must face justice. we have _ attacks on the 7th of october must face justice. we have a _ attacks on the 7th of october must l face justice. we have a humanitarian crisis _ face justice. we have a humanitarian crisis of— face justice. we have a humanitarian crisis of epic— face justice. we have a humanitarian crisis of epic proportion, _ face justice. we have a humanitarian crisis of epic proportion, children - crisis of epic proportion, children losing _ crisis of epic proportion, children losing limbs _ crisis of epic proportion, children losing limbs every _ crisis of epic proportion, children losing limbs every day, - crisis of epic proportion, children losing limbs every day, even - losing limbs every day, even acronyms _ losing limbs every day, even acronyms for _ losing limbs every day, even acronyms for children- losing limbs every day, even acronyms for children found i losing limbs every day, even - acronyms for children found without any families— acronyms for children found without any families remaining _ acronyms for children found without any families remaining alive, - any families remaining alive, children— any families remaining alive, children dying _ any families remaining alive, children dying choking - any families remaining alive, children dying choking on- any families remaining alive, i children dying choking on their any families remaining alive, - children dying choking on their own vomit— children dying choking on their own vomit on— children dying choking on their own vomit on the — children dying choking on their own vomit on the floor _ children dying choking on their own vomit on the floor of _ children dying choking on their own vomit on the floor of a _ children dying choking on their own vomit on the floor of a hospital- children dying choking on their own vomit on the floor of a hospital noi vomit on the floor of a hospital no longer— vomit on the floor of a hospital no longer functioning. _ vomit on the floor of a hospital no longerfunctioning. leaders- vomit on the floor of a hospital no longer functioning. leaders in- vomit on the floor of a hospital noj longer functioning. leaders in this country. _ longer functioning. leaders in this country. world _ longer functioning. leaders in this country, world leaders, _ longer functioning. leaders in this country, world leaders, our- longer functioning. leaders in this country, world leaders, our primej country, world leaders, our prime minister. — country, world leaders, our prime minister. they— country, world leaders, our prime minister, they have _ country, world leaders, our prime minister, they have a _ country, world leaders, our prime minister, they have a duty- country, world leaders, our prime minister, they have a duty to - country, world leaders, our prime minister, they have a duty to calll minister, they have a duty to call that out — minister, they have a duty to call that out. ., ., ,, ., ., that out. you want keir starmer to do that straightaway? _ that out. you want keir starmer to do that straightaway? i _ that out. you want keir starmer to do that straightaway? i believe - do that straightaway? i believe every senior — do that straightaway? i believe every senior western - do that straightaway? i believe every senior western leader i do that straightaway? i believe - every senior western leader needs to take a _ every senior western leader needs to take a stand — every senior western leader needs to take a stand against _ every senior western leader needs to take a stand against what _ every senior western leader needs to take a stand against what is - every senior western leader needs to take a stand against what is wrong i take a stand against what is wrong and be _ take a stand against what is wrong and be very— take a stand against what is wrong and be very clear _ take a stand against what is wrong and be very clear and _ take a stand against what is wrong and be very clear and vocal - take a stand against what is wrong and be very clear and vocal about. and be very clear and vocal about calling _ and be very clear and vocal about calling for— and be very clear and vocal about calling for an _ and be very clear and vocal about calling for an immediate - and be very clear and vocal about i

calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke. _ calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke. our— calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke. ourtwo— calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke, our two guests _ calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke, our two guests have - calling for an immediate ceasefire. luke, our two guests have spokenl luke, our two guests have spoken very passionately, you do groups like these listening to voters around the country all of the time, what surprised you if anything about that group and what is it really telling us?— that group and what is it really tellin: us? ~ , ., .,. telling us? aside from the fact i think both _ telling us? aside from the fact i think both parties _ telling us? aside from the fact i think both parties need - telling us? aside from the fact i think both parties need to - telling us? aside from the fact i think both parties need to get i telling us? aside from the fact i | think both parties need to get on with seducing martin lewis pretty quickly _ quickly. laughter so interesting, we put together the groups— so interesting, we put together the groups with people with different ideological views, lifelong tories, labour— ideological views, lifelong tories, labour voters, ideological views, lifelong tories, labourvoters, green, reform, so many— labourvoters, green, reform, so many of— labourvoters, green, reform, so many ofthe — labourvoters, green, reform, so many of the themes were the same, a sense _ many of the themes were the same, a sense of— many of the themes were the same, a sense of malaise in the country, struggles — sense of malaise in the country, struggles with cost of living, the nhs _ struggles with cost of living, the nhs. also the sense the political class _ nhs. also the sense the political class were not meeting the moment. you heard _ class were not meeting the moment. you heard time and time again about rishi sunak. — you heard time and time again about rishi sunak, nice guy, not strong enough. — rishi sunak, nice guy, not strong enough, out of touch. keir starmer, you heard. — enough, out of touch. keir starmer, you heard, dull, but uninspiring, does— you heard, dull, but uninspiring, does he — you heard, dull, but uninspiring, does he have a clear position on things? — does he have a clear position on things? the really worrying thing,

time for— things? the really worrying thing, time for change mood if the polls are to _ time for change mood if the polls are to be — time for change mood if the polls are to be believed we will have a change _ are to be believed we will have a change of — are to be believed we will have a change of government, but it is not being _ change of government, but it is not being met — change of government, but it is not being met with any enthusiasm. i think— being met with any enthusiasm. i think it _ being met with any enthusiasm. i think it is — being met with any enthusiasm. i think it is really worrying notjust for the _ think it is really worrying notjust for the selection but the state of our democracy. ten for the selection but the state of our democracy-— for the selection but the state of our democracy. for the selection but the state of our democra . ., , ., ., ., our democracy. ten months to go, a lot can happen. certainly _ our democracy. ten months to go, a lot can happen. certainly was - our democracy. ten months to go, a lot can happen. certainly was a - lot can happen. certainly was a sense of the scale of the country's problems are not matched by the ability of our politicians. a report in a paper we must ask you about, nadine. he received £17,000 in severance pay, a mistake, have you given it back? i severance pay, a mistake, have you given it back?— given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night- _ given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night. i _ given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night. i will— given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night. i will pay _ given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night. i will pay it- given it back? i only saw the e-mail on friday night. i will pay it back i on friday night. i will pay it back on friday night. i will pay it back on monday morning. no details in the e—mail how to do that. i am sure i will find out. everyone found out i am not 49. i was gutted. the picture from voters we spoke to for rishi sunak was not at all pretty. but their attitude to keir starmer was not exactly cause for labour to get out the bunting.

jonathan reynolds is after kemi badenoch'sjob jonathan reynolds is after kemi badenoch's job as business secretary. badenoch's 'ob as business secretary._ badenoch's 'ob as business secreta . ., ., secretary. you have watched the film as well. it secretary. you have watched the film as well- it was _ secretary. you have watched the film as well. it was not _ secretary. you have watched the film as well. it was not a _ secretary. you have watched the film as well. it was not a ringing - as well. it was not a ringing endorsement for your leader. why do you think it is for that group of voters he is not creating enthusiasm? oi voters he is not creating enthusiasm?— voters he is not creating enthusiasm? , enthusiasm? of course people feel that wa . enthusiasm? of course people feel that way- we _ enthusiasm? of course people feel that way. we have _ enthusiasm? of course people feel that way. we have had _ enthusiasm? of course people feel that way. we have had an - that way. we have had an unprecedented squeeze on living standards, no public services work as they should, these people have seen political leaders, change is a prime minister making the situation worse. liz truss and the mini budget they referenced, incredibly reckless. real damage. the only way those people will be convinced the political system can deliver for them is not through promises but through delivery. it is through building enough homes, giving them security in the workplace, getting investment. you cannot do that from a position, you have to win the trust of people to deliver. the reason keir starmer is the right person is quite simply he has a working—class guy who has achieved at the top of his field and public

service for the right reasons, incredibly decent, real integrity, dedicated himself, in for the right reasons. you have to deliver four people. what you are saying is of course people feel cross about the state of the country but actually no one will feel enthusiastic about politicians until they give you a chance in government. actually, opposition _ chance in government. actually, opposition leaders _ chance in government. actually, opposition leaders can _ chance in government. actually, opposition leaders can create i opposition leaders can create excitement, they can instil inspiration sometimes from time to time. on the substance of it, we heard from voters, not quite sure what keir starmer stands for. i will read you one young voter, i don't know what he believes, i think everything he says is to try to win the majority over. after years in the majority over. after years in the job, the majority over. after years in thejob, why is the majority over. after years in the job, why is that people don't know what he stands for? you the job, why is that people don't know what he stands for? you have to firht know what he stands for? you have to fi . ht for a know what he stands for? you have to fight for a hearing _ know what he stands for? you have to fight for a hearing in _ know what he stands for? you have to fight for a hearing in opposition, - fight for a hearing in opposition, we understand that. the clear positions keir starmer is taking, abolish the super tax regime, put into the health service, clear choice. change the taxation of

private education to put it into state education, clear choice. it is... state education, clear choice. it is," ,, f~ is... saying you will spend 28 billion on _ is... saying you will spend 28 billion on clean _ is... saying you will spend 28 billion on clean energy - is... saying you will spend 28 billion on clean energy and i is... saying you will spend 28 - billion on clean energy and green projects and then saying you might not... that is not creating certain sea, creating a lot of confusion. people understand our ambition is absolutely clear, how much you can spend on anything as determined by the health of the economy and whoever wins the next election does not look very good to be frank. we have been very clear we feel the fiscal rules we put forward wanting to see tactful by the end of parliament, it governs the decisions —— see that debt fall. i(eir parliament, it governs the decisions -- see that debt fall.— -- see that debt fall. keir starmer has dropped _ -- see that debt fall. keir starmer has dropped a _ -- see that debt fall. keir starmer has dropped a whole _ -- see that debt fall. keir starmer has dropped a whole host - -- see that debt fall. keir starmer has dropped a whole host of- -- see that debt fall. keir starmeri has dropped a whole host of pledges and he has changed his mind on how fast he would bring in the £28 billion a year of investment.

whether it is a good thing or a bad thing for him to change his mind, do you accept it has created the perception for some people that he doesn't quite know what he is about? changes his mind all the time. therefore they are not quite sure. i think we have some very clear positions. i think circumstances change and particularly the health of the public finances, cost of borrowing, it changed remarkably in the last few years. you have no choice in opposition but to reflect on that and therefore put your programme forward because again people don't want promises they don't think can be delivered. [30 people don't want promises they don't think can be delivered. do you acce -t don't think can be delivered. do you accept there — don't think can be delivered. do you accept there was _ don't think can be delivered. do you accept there was a _ don't think can be delivered. do you accept there was a perception - don't think can be delivered. do you accept there was a perception of. accept there was a perception of that? if accept there was a perception of that? , ., accept there was a perception of that? y ., ., ., accept there was a perception of that? y., ., ., ~ ., accept there was a perception of that? ., ., ~ ., , that? if you want to know why keir starmer can _ that? if you want to know why keir starmer can change _ that? if you want to know why keir starmer can change this _ that? if you want to know why keir starmer can change this country i that? if you want to know why keir starmer can change this country to pull it out of the doldrums, look how he has changed the labour party. look at it in 2019, in an absolutely terrible state. i don't think most people believed one party leader in one term of parliament could bring labour back from that to be competitive at the next election. he has done that and the courage and resolve and resilience he has had to

show to do that tells you about the kind of prime minister he could be and would be if he has given the choice. there is always more to do. we are very pleased with how the polls have changed, the by—election results, but no one is complacent. we know where we are coming from. you have got to have the self awareness technology in opposition you have to keep making the case. people only tune in when you get closer to the election. look at the progress made to date. it tells you a lot about the kind of person keir starmer is. a lot about the kind of person keir starmer is— starmer is. post office, we heard the business _ starmer is. post office, we heard the business secretary _ starmer is. post office, we heard the business secretary giving - starmer is. post office, we heard the business secretary giving us | starmer is. post office, we heard| the business secretary giving us a little bit of detail about why the chair henry staunton was sacked by her yesterday. chair henry staunton was sacked by heryesterday. do chair henry staunton was sacked by her yesterday. do you think it is the right decision he was ousted? the scale of the scandal in the post office is so vast, absolutely essential the right leadership is in place. they have to tell us why they made the decision seemingly yesterday, the person going was not there for the scandal, must be specific reasons why they do not have confidence in that person going

on. the public will want to know, notjust on. the public will want to know, not just about one on. the public will want to know, notjust about one person, one chair being changed, the overall approach and entire organisation is going to come to terms with the scale of this, put it right. and also fundamentally people want to see the sub postmaster is exonerated and compensation as soon as possible. you are not saying whether it is the right decision, you have not got enough information?— right decision, you have not got enough information? unusualto have a decision like _ enough information? unusualto have a decision like this _ enough information? unusualto have a decision like this at _ enough information? unusualto have a decision like this at the _ enough information? unusualto have a decision like this at the weekend, i a decision like this at the weekend, we will find out in parliament next week exactly what. .. we will find out in parliament next week exactly what. . .— week exactly what... done for olitical week exactly what... done for political reasons? _ week exactly what... done for political reasons? let - week exactly what... done for political reasons? let us - week exactly what... done for political reasons? let us see i week exactly what... done for - political reasons? let us see what the government's _ political reasons? let us see what the government's account - political reasons? let us see what the government's account is. - political reasons? let us see what the government's account is. we l the government's account is. we would want to know, a substantive evidence—based decision that we can clearly see the government's reasons for and have confidence going forward in the organisation. the scale of this, the post office, more than just horizon and the cover—up. it goes to the heart of how power is exercised, who is accountable for the exercise of power and people quite rightly are incredibly angry. it is a much loved british

institution.— it is a much loved british institution. ., ., ., ., , institution. what a lot of people in our -a institution. what a lot of people in your party are _ institution. what a lot of people in your party are very _ institution. what a lot of people in your party are very angry - institution. what a lot of people in your party are very angry about. institution. what a lot of people in your party are very angry about is| your party are very angry about is what is happening in gaza. we heard ten rosena talk passionately about have view and shared by a lot of people in the labour party and many watching this morning that it is long past time keir starmer and others to agree there must be a ceasefire. do you think that i might have come? we ceasefire. do you think that i might have come?— ceasefire. do you think that i might have come? ~ ., ., ., have come? we have said we want to see a sustainable _ have come? we have said we want to see a sustainable ceasefire... - have come? we have said we want to see a sustainable ceasefire... that i see a sustainable ceasefire... that was not my — see a sustainable ceasefire... that was not my question. _ see a sustainable ceasefire... that was not my question. time to go further than that. the was not my question. time to go further than that.— further than that. the release of hostages. _ further than that. the release of hostages. got — further than that. the release of hostages, got to _ further than that. the release of hostages, got to be _ further than that. the release of hostages, got to be an - further than that. the release of hostages, got to be an end - further than that. the release of hostages, got to be an end of. further than that. the release of - hostages, got to be an end of rocket attacks, the bombing campaign has to stop in response to that and therefore also the wider necessity of a two—state solution, peace process back on track, part of that. we have always been clear, you couldn't have that when there was no willingness from hamas to release hostages, and the violence on their side. we want to see the violence and under proper peace process and

the humanitarian situation addressed. aha, the humanitarian situation addressed.— the humanitarian situation addressed. �* ., ., , addressed. a lot of people watching mi . ht think addressed. a lot of people watching might think our _ addressed. a lot of people watching might think our politicians _ addressed. a lot of people watching might think our politicians have - might think our politicians have been saying that for quite a long time now and nothing is changing. i think there are leaders on both sides of this conflict that have made that particularly hard. i think the role of the international community is to hold true to the long—term sustainable way to end this for good and that is what everybody wants to see and of course difficult but we should never give up difficult but we should never give up on that. we have even in my lifetime been close at times to may be some sort of resolution. imperative the leaders prepare their own people on both sides for what that would look like and willing to work towards that.— work towards that. jonathan reynolds. — work towards that. jonathan reynolds, thank _ work towards that. jonathan reynolds, thank you, - work towards that. jonathan | reynolds, thank you, always work towards that. jonathan - reynolds, thank you, always great to have you in the studio. whoever gets to number 10 will have to deal with an increasingly unpredictable world. this and donald trump may be on his way back to the white house — an unpredictable leader with an unconventional attitude to america's responsbilities to the rest of the world, putting it mildly. on friday, there was another houthi attack in the red sea, this time on an oil tanker —

despite british and american strikes against houthi targets in yemen. i met the us secretary of the navy, carlos del toro, who was in the uk this week and asked him, what is the point of the military strikes if the houthi attacks continue? i think it's a very important observation to make. this isn'tjust about a military solution, it's about a diplomatic solution. right? and they are all interrelated in one way or another. we have a moral responsibility to protect our own sailors, both in the united kingdom and the united states and all the other allies that are partnered with us as well too, but it's obvious that that will take more than just a military solution to this problem in order to resolve the issues in the middle east, with impact obviously on what's going on in the red sea. for how long can you see these strikes continuing, for how long would you be willing to keep carrying on with these strikes? sure, well, to your first question

i think perhaps we should ask iran that question. they continue to support houthis financially and with weapons capabilities as well, as discovered by when we were able to interject in the red sea where we lost two special forces navy seals. so perhaps we should ask them for how long this will continue. my hope and expectation is that it will not continue indefinitely, and that we will be able to go back to peacetime operations in the red sea and allow all the shipping to proceed peacefully. but as i said, it will require a diplomatic solution with regards to what's going on in israel and hamas as well. and if it does continue in the red sea, though, you would keep firing missiles for as long as it takes? absolutely, absolutely. it's ourjob to save innocent lives and that's what the united states and the united kingdom is committed to. our defence secretary told us last week he was disappointed that benjamin netanyahu had hardened his attitude against the two state solution. are you disappointed by that? as president biden has said, we should be supporting

a two state solution. but he has also made it clear that that two state solution certainly can't be hamas. because they have proven to be the terrorists that they are. is the reality here that president biden needs to talk tougher and more directly to benjamin netanyahu? well, i won't get into the specifics of the president's conversations with neta nyahu. but i assure you that president biden has strong convictions that we must bring justice to hamas while at the same time providing the humanitarian assistance that is necessary to the palestinian people so that we can also stop their suffering. over 25,000 men and women have also lost their lives. there are a lot of extremely tense situations in the world right now. yes. there's a situation in the middle east, there the ongoing situation in ukraine and russia. it all contributes to a nervous

atmosphere in many parts of the world and amongst many western leaders. you said that the world should be worried by the prospect of donald trump becoming president again, why did you say that? well, i said that because it's my strong conviction that president biden has provided the mature leadership both in the united states in stabilising our economy which was faced by many challenges early as he took office, rebuilding that economy, and building the national security relationships with our allies and partners around the globe. you said, though, that president trump was somebody who aligned himself with autocrats and dictators and that the world should be worried by the possibility of him coming back to the white house. what is your worry? my worry is that, you know, we as americans for as long as i can remember, certainly since i served in uniform, we have had both republican and democratic presidents who have always abided by the core values of our country,

protecting the freedoms of americans and other people around the globe and protecting democracy itself. and when you have someone who doesn't align to those core principles, it makes you wonder, you know, should you be supporting that individual? you said he had a suspicious attitude to democracy. absolutely so. and what might the worst outcome there'd be for outcome then be for the security of the world? do you think america could leave nato, what impact might that have? well, i can't predict the future would bring. but it will suffer undoubtedly. what do you mean by that? it will suffer because we won't have the benefit of the mature leadership that president biden has provided the united states and the world. in terms of public perception of the united states, though, the maturity, the age of president biden is a worry for some voters, even democratic voters. now, you know him well, you work very closely with him. i do. should people be worried about that?

because american voters do worry about that. some may but i certainly don't worry about it, as someone who has actually worked with him very closely on issues of national security. and i've seen him in action talking about the economy and many other issues related to the united states. he is as sound as anyone i know. and in terms of how our two countries work together militarily, you know, there are senior military leaders here who worry about the level of spending, who worry that our aircraft carriers are not out at sea in the way that people hoped they would. is our navy big enough? well, i'm always supportive of bigger navies. both in the united states and the united kingdom. but i think you should look at the problem with a different way. what's the value of not having that? what's the economic chaos that is created when you don't have a sufficiently sized navy to be able to protect the economic interests of the country, right? so i think you should look at the opportunity cost created when you don't make those investments in your national

security, in your navy. is there a risk that today when money is tight, governments are not making the investments that we may well need in ten, 15, 20 years' time? well, i think it is at risk and largely because of the threat that's posed by russia in ukraine, for example. ukrainians are fighting for the democracy of all peoples around the globe. and should russia be successful in ukraine, what does that say for what president xi might do in the pacific, what does that say for what president putin might continue to do here in europe? so i don't want to be an alarmist in any way, but i always argue that my responsibility as secretary of the navy is to ensure that we have a navy that can deter and defend our economic interests in every possible way. mr secretary, thank you so much. it's a great honour to have been with you and all of your listeners, laura, thank you. carlos delta toro, the us secretary

of the navy. carlos delta toro, the us secretary of the navy-— of the navy. interesting to talk to him about defence _ of the navy. interesting to talk to him about defence spending. - of the navy. interesting to talk to him about defence spending. we | him about defence spending. we wonder if there has been a lot of conversation about him in the last few weeks building up, whether that might be an issue in the election campaign, who knows. there is always a lot of pressure on all of public spending. ijust wanted to end on quizzing all three of you on something slightly different. we asked our voters who gathered with us on wednesday in manchester, if they could choose someone from outside politics to be prime minister, who would it be, lots of them said martin lewis, he is getting pretty popular, carol vorderman, alan sugar, who would it be if you could pick? mr; vorderman, alan sugar, who would it be if you could pick?— be if you could pick? my mum. she's re be if you could pick? my mum. she's pretty awesome- _ be if you could pick? my mum. she's pretty awesome. she _ be if you could pick? my mum. she's pretty awesome. she makes - be if you could pick? my mum. she's pretty awesome. she makes you - be if you could pick? my mum. she's pretty awesome. she makes you toe | pretty awesome. she makes you toe the line which is very fair. iatht’hat the line which is very fair. what would she _ the line which is very fair. what would she do _ the line which is very fair. what would she do if— the line which is very fair. what would she do if she _ the line which is very fair. what would she do if she ended - the line which is very fair. what would she do if she ended up in downing street? she would she do if she ended up in downing street?— downing street? she would be extremely _ downing street? she would be extremely kind _ downing street? she would be extremely kind to _ downing street? she would be extremely kind to everybody i downing street? she would be i extremely kind to everybody but downing street? she would be - extremely kind to everybody but she would get stuff done. iatrut’ith extremely kind to everybody but she would get stuff done.— would get stuff done. with a bit of a tin . e would get stuff done. with a bit of a tinge of. — would get stuff done. with a bit of a tinge of. i _ would get stuff done. with a bit of a tinge of. i can — would get stuff done. with a bit of a tinge of, i can tell _ would get stuff done. with a bit of a tinge of, i can tell ginger- a tinge of, i can tell ginger something else there. she might tell people off? it is something else there. she might tell --eole off? ,., something else there. she might tell --eole off? _, ., , something else there. she might tell --eoleoff? _, ., , ., , people off? it is a polish mentality of caettin people off? it is a polish mentality of getting on _ people off? it is a polish mentality

of getting on with _ people off? it is a polish mentality of getting on with the _ people off? it is a polish mentality of getting on with the job, - people off? it is a polish mentality of getting on with the job, being i of getting on with the job, being sensitive at them, and having loads of really good ideas.— of really good ideas. nadine, someone _ of really good ideas. nadine, someone outside _ of really good ideas. nadine, someone outside politics? i of really good ideas. nadine, - someone outside politics? juergen klo -. he someone outside politics? juergen klopp- he has— someone outside politics? juergen klopp. he has left— someone outside politics? juergen klopp. he has left liverpool. - someone outside politics? juergen klopp. he has left liverpool. he i someone outside politics? juergen i klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on _ klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his _ klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his hands. _ klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his hands. and - klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his hands. and he - klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his hands. and he is i klopp. he has left liverpool. he has more time on his hands. and he is a man who knows _ more time on his hands. and he is a man who knows how— more time on his hands. and he is a man who knows how to _ more time on his hands. and he is a man who knows how to manage - more time on his hands. and he is a man who knows how to manage a i more time on his hands. and he is a - man who knows how to manage a team. what kind _ man who knows how to manage a team. what kind of— man who knows how to manage a team. what kind of things do you think you would do in number 10? knock what kind of things do you think you would do in number10? knock heads toaether, would do in number10? knock heads together. keep _ would do in number10? knock heads together, keep people _ would do in number10? knock heads together, keep people disciplined, i together, keep people disciplined, keep people focused, their eye on the ball. _ keep people focused, their eye on the ball, which is delivering for the ball, which is delivering for the british people.— the ball, which is delivering for the british people. luca, who would ou have? the british people. luca, who would you have? 0nce _ the british people. luca, who would you have? once upon _ the british people. luca, who would you have? once upon a _ the british people. luca, who would you have? once upon a time - the british people. luca, who would you have? once upon a time you i the british people. luca, who would i you have? once upon a time you were a conservative adviser —— luke, before you are a pollster, who would you choose?— you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! _ you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! used _ you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! used to _ you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! used to work- you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! used to work for- you choose? nicky morgan i would have to say! used to work for her! | have to say! used to work for her! she was here _ have to say! used to work for her! she was here last _ have to say! used to work for her! she was here last week. _ have to say! used to work for her! she was here last week. someone have to say! used to work for her! i she was here last week. someone in that a-rou she was here last week. someone in that group who _ she was here last week. someone in that group who i _ she was here last week. someone in that group who i was _ she was here last week. someone in that group who i was going - she was here last week. someone in that group who i was going to - she was here last week. someone in that group who i was going to steal i that group who i was going to steal their answer. — that group who i was going to steal their answer, david _ that group who i was going to steal their answer, david attenborough i that group who i was going to steal i their answer, david attenborough 30 years younger— their answer, david attenborough 30 years younger would _ their answer, david attenborough 30 years younger would be _ their answer, david attenborough 30 years younger would be perfect. - their answer, david attenborough 30 years younger would be perfect. i- years younger would be perfect. i think— years younger would be perfect. i think he _ years younger would be perfect. i think he deserves _

years younger would be perfect. i think he deserves iraq _ years younger would be perfect. i think he deserves iraq now- years younger would be perfect. i think he deserves iraq now but i years younger would be perfect. i| think he deserves iraq now but 30 years— think he deserves iraq now but 30 years ago— think he deserves iraq now but 30 years ago he — think he deserves iraq now but 30 years ago he would _ think he deserves iraq now but 30 years ago he would have - think he deserves iraq now but 30 years ago he would have been - years ago he would have been perfect — years ago he would have been erfect. , , ., , ., perfect. -- he deserves a rest now. what is it now _ perfect. -- he deserves a rest now. what is it now people _ perfect. -- he deserves a rest now. what is it now people are _ perfect. -- he deserves a rest now. what is it now people are coming i perfect. -- he deserves a rest now. | what is it now people are coming up with these names? we did here today such a lack of conviction about the leaders we have an excitement and enthusiasm for other people, what is it about this generation of leaders? the one thing that unites all of those — the one thing that unites all of those people. _ the one thing that unites all of those people, martin - the one thing that unites all of those people, martin lewis, i the one thing that unites all of. those people, martin lewis, alan sugar. _ those people, martin lewis, alan sugar. carol— those people, martin lewis, alan sugar, carol vorderman, - those people, martin lewis, alan sugar, carolvorderman, its- sugar, carol vorderman, its authenticity. _ sugar, carol vorderman, its authenticity. that _ sugar, carol vorderman, its authenticity. that sense - sugar, carol vorderman, its| authenticity. that sense that sugar, carol vorderman, its- authenticity. that sense that when you are _ authenticity. that sense that when you are presented _ authenticity. that sense that when you are presented with _ authenticity. that sense that when you are presented with them, - authenticity. that sense that when you are presented with them, it i authenticity. that sense that when you are presented with them, it is| you are presented with them, it is the real— you are presented with them, it is the real them _ you are presented with them, it is the real them. and _ you are presented with them, it is the real them. and it _ you are presented with them, it is the real them. and it was - you are presented with them, it is the real them. and it was peoplel the real them. and it was people also talking — the real them. and it was people also talking about _ the real them. and it was people also talking about business - also talking about business experience _ also talking about business experience as _ also talking about business experience as well, - also talking about business - experience as well, particularly with lord — experience as well, particularly with lord sugar— experience as well, particularly with lord sugar and _ experience as well, particularly with lord sugar and martin - experience as well, particularly i with lord sugar and martin lewis. experience as well, particularly - with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know— with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how— with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how to— with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how to run _ with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how to run things, _ with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how to run things, they- with lord sugar and martin lewis. i know how to run things, they knowj know how to run things, they know how to _ know how to run things, they know how to get — know how to run things, they know how to get things _ know how to run things, they know how to get things done. _ know how to run things, they know how to get things done. and - know how to run things, they know how to get things done. and we . know how to run things, they knowl how to get things done. and we had know how to run things, they know i how to get things done. and we had a lot of— how to get things done. and we had a lot of criticism, _ how to get things done. and we had a lot of criticism, sometimes _ how to get things done. and we had a lot of criticism, sometimes this - lot of criticism, sometimes this criticism — lot of criticism, sometimes this criticism is _ lot of criticism, sometimes this criticism is unfair, _ lot of criticism, sometimes this criticism is unfair, of— lot of criticism, sometimes this criticism is unfair, of career- criticism is unfair, of career politicians _ criticism is unfair, of career politicians. they— criticism is unfair, of career politicians. they want - criticism is unfair, of career. politicians. they want people criticism is unfair, of career- politicians. they want people who can bring — politicians. they want people who can bring something _ politicians. they want people who can bring something outside - politicians. they want people who i can bring something outside politics like both— can bring something outside politics like both of— can bring something outside politics like both of our— can bring something outside politics like both of our panellists _ can bring something outside politics like both of our panellists do - can bring something outside politics like both of our panellists do here i like both of our panellists do here in different— like both of our panellists do here in different ways, _ like both of our panellists do here in different ways, they— like both of our panellists do here in different ways, they are - like both of our panellists do here in different ways, they are not - like both of our panellists do here | in different ways, they are not the usual— in different ways, they are not the usual politicians. _ in different ways, they are not the usual politicians.— in different ways, they are not the usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet.

usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet- he — usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet. he was _ usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet. he was an _ usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet. he was an adviser. - usual politicians. alan sugar was in cabinet. he was an adviser. he - usual politicians. alan sugar was in j cabinet. he was an adviser. he was peter mandelson's _ cabinet. he was an adviser. he was peter mandelson's adviser. - cabinet. he was an adviser. he was - peter mandelson's adviser. sometimes that goes wrong when people come from outside, successive prime ministers have tried it and sometime it blows up. why do you think that authenticity is not always something that people look at you as a political class, not because no, i think you don't have? it political class, not because no, i think you don't have?— political class, not because no, i think you don't have? it was being interestin: think you don't have? it was being interesting being _ think you don't have? it was being interesting being nothing - think you don't have? it was being interesting being nothing to - think you don't have? it was being interesting being nothing to do i think you don't have? it was being i interesting being nothing to do with politics— interesting being nothing to do with politics and being launched into it and the _ politics and being launched into it and the mistrust came overnight. the perception— and the mistrust came overnight. the perception that you cannot be trusted — perception that you cannot be trusted when you are in politics comes— trusted when you are in politics comes from this long—standing feeling — comes from this long—standing feeling that they can't be. i think what's _ feeling that they can't be. i think what's really important, i know so many _ what's really important, i know so many politicians across all parties and they— many politicians across all parties and they are really decent people, and they are really decent people, and they— and they are really decent people, and they are really decent people, and they are all in it, most of them are in— and they are all in it, most of them are in it's _ and they are all in it, most of them are in it's to— and they are all in it, most of them are in it's to make a change and do good _ are in it's to make a change and do good i_ are in it's to make a change and do good i think— are in it's to make a change and do good. i think once you you get into politics— good. i think once you you get into politics to — good. i think once you you get into politics to become so self—aware and what is _ politics to become so self—aware and what is lacking is authenticity. people — what is lacking is authenticity. people need to believe that the

person— people need to believe that the person they are seeing is going to deliver— person they are seeing is going to deliver on— person they are seeing is going to deliver on the things they have promised — deliver on the things they have promised they had the liver, and they need — promised they had the liver, and they need to imagine being there mate _ they need to imagine being there mate and — they need to imagine being there mate and shutting them.- they need to imagine being there mate and shutting them. that's why --eole mate and shutting them. that's why people voted _ mate and shutting them. that's why people voted for _ mate and shutting them. that's why people voted for boris _ mate and shutting them. that's why people voted for boris johnson - people voted for borisjohnson because they saw the man on the zip wire, the man in his own words is not perfect, they saw the genuine article that's why they voted for him. he was authentic. fight! article that's why they voted for him. he was authentic. and their -- there many — him. he was authentic. and their -- there many of— him. he was authentic. and their -- there many of our— him. he was authentic. and their -- there many of our group _ him. he was authentic. and their -- there many of our group were - there many of our group were disappointed with what happened with him. thank you forjoining us, thank you from the voters who join us on wednesday and thank you for spending your morning with us today. we have been able to hear what is really going on in some voters minds. maybe you agreed with a lot of what you heard, maybe you wanted to throw something at the telly. but one thing was abundantly clear, right now britain seems to be in a bad mood. and none of our politicians seem able to cheer the country up.

before they can convince you to give them your precious vote this year, maybe they first have to convince you they can actually make a difference. you can watch anything again on iplayer, or i'll chat to you on today's newscast with paddy that will be on bbc sounds a bit later on. i'll look forward to seeing you next week of course, same time, same place.

live from london, this is bbc news. the head of the un begs countries to continue supporting its palestinian aid agency after claims some staff were involved in the hamas attacks on israel. as far—right extreminsts gain ground in germany, the country's chancellor calls on people to fight racism and anti—semitism.

and king charles is visited by queen camilla as he spends a second night in hospital following treatment for his prostate. hello and welcome. i'm catherine byaruhanga. the united nations�* chief has vowed to hold to account any un employee involved in acts of terror, after israel presented evidence that some staff at the un agency working in the palestinian territories were involved in the october 7th hamas attacks on israel. but antonio guterres also appealed to governments to continue supporting unrwa, after nine countries paused theirfunding, including the us and the uk. mr guterres says "the tens of thousands of men