of overpromising and under—delivering. further american military assistance has been blocked by partisan warfare on capitol hill, and in europe, too, cracks are evident in the ukraine support network. my guest is radek sikorski, foreign minister in poland's new government. has support for ukraine become a burden that kyiv�*s allies are no longer ready to bear? radek sikorski, in warsaw, welcome to hardtalk. hello. good to see you again, stephen.

it's great to have you on the programme. let's begin with a simple thought. the portents for ukraine in its grim battle against vladimir putin's forces in ukraine, the portents are really very negative, are they not? the supply of weaponry and of money coming from kyiv supporters is drying up. how concerned are you? that's not quite right. i was in kyiv within days of my appointment in december. my prime minister, the former head of the european council, donald tusk, has just been there, and the ukrainians have achieved a victory that has not been noticed in the western press, namely that, against stiff russian opposition, they have cleared western black sea of russian ships and they have now resumed grain shipments, not under a deal, from odesa via the western black sea

to the bosphorus and to africa and beyond. that's a considerable military success. that's not insignificant. and they also... i agree it's not insignificant. but, ultimately, this is a desperate battle, metre by metre, kilometre by kilometre, for land in the east of ukraine. and if one looks at what is happening from bakhmut to avdiivka, one sees that the russian military can outgun the ukrainians. i believe in terms of the ammunition supplies they have, it's 8 to 1 in russia's favour. that is going to count, and as we see, both in europe and the united states, there is a fundamental inability to change that balance. you're somewhat right, namely that the russians seem to have regained the initiative, but some of their victories are clearly pyrrhic ones. in bakhmut, i think they lost

something like 30,000 troops. i'm not sure they can sustain that level of losses. ukrainians are successfully hitting targets behind enemy lines, including in russia, and on the financial side at the foreign affairs council on monday, we took a very important decision in principle to seize the income from the frozen russian state bank assets, which establishes an important principle, namely that the aggressor should pay for the damage that it does. i hope we will eventually seize the principle, the capital of around 300 billion euros held in european banks, and i hope we will make that money available to ukraine for defence and for reconstruction. well, there's no indication that's going to happen any time soon.

and if you're talking about money, perhaps the ukrainians, on a more urgent basis, are looking at that 50 billion euro pledge that was made by the european union in terms of assistance, and they see that it is still blocked. it's not clear whether viktor 0rban and the hungarians are going to end their opposition to that package. but even if the hungarians do, there are still internal tensions elsewhere in the eu which make it very unclear when and if that money will be delivered. well, of course, if we had a british voice at the european council, it might have helped. yes, we are a confederation and among 27 countries, it sometimes takes time. but the 50 billion you mentioned is for the reconstruction of ukraine. the more urgent chunk of money is the increase of the so—called european peace facility. as its name suggests, it's the european union's defence budget.

we've spent it on helping ukraine and we are discussing putting in 5 billion extra to continue the supplies. of course, member states do a lot on a bilateral basis. poland, if you count the cost of helping refugees and financial assistance and military transfers, poland is, on a per capita basis, the number one contributor. and we are, as a new government, looking at new ways, and there will be more military supplies to ukraine. others are doing their bit. britain... how quickly... britain has contributed... yeah, well, you say there will be more military supplies. how quickly? i'm just very mindful, coming back to this very real problem ukraine has with ammunition. the eu promised to deliver one million artillery shells by march. and it is quite plain, is it not, that that target will not be reached? you will have failed

ukraine on that basis. i actually had a meeting with the eu commissioner, the relevant one, thierry breton, and i can't tell you the exact figure, but we are close to reaching our target and we are increasing our production capacity of ammunition. and even though mr putin is getting help from fellow satrapies like north korea and iran, he has no hope of out—producing us eventually. in the west, we are 20 times richer than russia. and if we put our minds to it, if we mobilise our resources, we can out—produce russia. you've been foreign ministerfor a few weeks. you've assessed the mood in the eu when it comes to the future of support for ukraine. are you about to go to, if i can put it this way, diplomatic war with those fellow member states of the european union that clearly do not share your view that support must be ramped up?

i'm mindful that you went to davos recently and you referred to western leaders who are pushing zelensky to make peace. you called them pocket chamberlains who are willing to sacrifice other people's land or freedom for their own peace of mind. are there some colleagues in europe that you had in mind when you made those statements? i actually had some commentators in mind. but, no, look, we have passed unanimously 500 million euros for ammunition for ukraine. yeah, but hang on... unanimously. about the messaging — you know, that viktor 0rban, for example, or slovakia's new leader, robert fico, they are saying to zelensky, "you have to stop fighting, you have to talk to putin "and you have to make territorial concessions. "that is the only way." well, you have to ask them why they take that view. but my hungarian colleague, i believe, is travelling

to ukraine for the first time around this time. so perhaps they'll take a different view once they've seen the situation in ukraine. we in poland, in central europe, believe that putin has to be stopped, that if he conquers ukraine, then he will... the price of deterring him will rise, and that, therefore, the project of rebuilding russian empire should be stopped now. and the ukrainians are doing us the favour of doing the fighting on our behalf and just want the means to do it effectively, and we should provide them. last autumn, when the previous pis law and justice party was still in power in poland, poland blocked exports of grain from ukraine. there was a truckers�* blockade around the border area. ukraine accused poland of being deeply unhelpful and,

in effect, ruining the ukrainian economy. can you tell me that you and your government are going to take a completely different attitude and support the eu free trade agreement with ukraine? well, when i went to kyiv, i took the deputy ministers for agriculture and for transportation with me. and i'm happy to be able to tell you that the blockade of the border has now been lifted. no, i know the blockade has been lifted, but as i understand it, your boss, donald tusk, pm, is opposing renewing the eu free trade deal with ukraine. is that true? well, the deep and comprehensive free trade area with ukraine was negotiated under the polish presidency of the eu in 2011 and i had something to do with it. but the ukrainian grain before the war, before putin blocked the black sea, those exports were going to where they are needed — to egypt, to africa, to china — and we have absolutely no

problem with helping the transit. there are some anomalies of the trade...in grain whereby both ukrainian and polish farmers suffered during the putin blockade. but i believe that's been overcome thanks to the ukrainian victory in the black sea. yeah, well, the black sea route is one route, but the land route is still important. i'm still not clear. i don't know that you're being very clear with me about whether or not poland will keep in place an import ban on ukrainian grain. will it or won't it? we are discussing with ukrainians introducing the same kind of system that ukraine has with romania and bulgaria, whereby there would be some licensing of trade between ukraine and poland. remember that the

transportation cost is an important component of the price of grain. and as the eu commissioner for agriculture, actually a pole, admitted to me when i was previously a member of the european parliament, two—thirds of the grain coming from ukraine into the single market of the eu was actually staying in poland. in other words, polish farmers were bearing the entire brunt of the whole of the eu's solidarity with ukraine. i see. so solidarity goes some way... so since we support ukraine strategically... ..but doesn't go all the way in poland, i get it. i want to ask you about the united states. it is clear now, in the last few hours it's become even clearer, that the republicans on capitol hill are backing away from any kind of deal with the biden administration which might have linked new, tougher rules on america's southern border to a green light for a massive new assistance package to ukraine worth many tens of billions of dollars.

the republicans are backing away from that, which, for the moment at least, looks like that assistance is simply not going to happen. you're foreign minister of poland, you have a lot of connections in the united states. what is your message to the americans, both the biden administration and the republicans? my message is, please release the next package of assistance to ukraine. it's important not only for this region, it's important for the whole system of american alliances around the world, for american credibility, for american communication towards other aggressive authoritarian powers who perhaps want to seize what they regard as renegade provinces. do you have any faith that the americans are listening to people like you?

well, we meet with both sides of the aisle in congress, and i hope they are. i hope that... hope is one thing, belief is another. let me quote to you a tweet from the very respected writer and journalist on russian and east european affairs, anne applebaum, whojust happens to be your wife. she's just tweeted. .. i'm familiar with her. indeed you are. she just tweeted, "the republican party in the us "is preparing to abandon american allies..." she means ukraine, of course. "..in the name of electing trump." do you agree with her? well, we want to have the best possible relations with the united states, irrespective of who is in power. what is allowed to a columnist is not necessarily allowed to an official. but i think there is still enough reaganite right in the republican party

to understand the strategic argument, which is overwhelmingly in favour of helping ukraine resist putin's aggression. you said, again very recently, that a couple of things keep you awake at night. and number one, you said, is, "if the election in the us goes "the wrong way next year, "we're going to be in real "trouble." what did you mean by that? well, that was from the rostrum of the european parliament in strasbourg in my previous role. well, you're the same radek sikorski. i doubt your views have changed. of course. of course. so, what did you mean? we need america as a strong ally. and you're having nightmares that, if trump wins... america's right to insist that, as europeans, we should spend 2% of gdp on defence. poland is spending 4% of gdp on defence. half of our military spending is on procurement. we'vejust placed $50 billion worth of defence orders in the united states. europeans, since the ukraine

war, have placed $90 billion worth of orders in the american defence establishment. the ukrainians are doing the fighting for a few per cent of the annual american defence budget. they have already destroyed half of putin's army. it's a really good deal for the united states. i'm just trying to get to grips with what you mean by this "terrible nightmare" you have of the election in america going the wrong way. do you really believe that if trump wins, then all of europe's security is jeopardised? we don't interfere in american elections but as the largest economy on earth, we, the european union, should not be helpless. of course, the alliance with the united states, the bedrock of the north atlantic treaty 0rganisation, is our first insurance policy. but i personally believe we should start developing

a second insurance policy and also a defence capability in the european union for those emergencies, for example, in the mediterranean or on the border of the schengen zone, forwhich, perhaps, the united states will not have the bandwidth or the resources. i think it would serve mutual interests. well, it's very interesting you say that because i've just noticed in the last few days a lot of military and defence chiefs across europe are talking about, within a ten—year time frame, the possibility of a war, a sort of wider war in europe. we've heard it from the swedish commander—in—chief, who told swedes that they should prepare themselves mentally for war. we had the british head of the army saying that britain should train and equip a citizen army for a potential land war. you sit in poland and, god knows, poland is at a strategic intersection in europe, which means that any wider war in europe may well be on your turf. are you preparing your people

with that message, too? well, we are also having the largest nato exercises in history and, as i've mentioned to you before, we've gone to spending 4% of gdp on defence. so, yes, we take it very seriously. we want to deter mr putin from conquest. but we should be prepared for him being on a rampage. but the point is are you saying we should prepare in europe for that challenge going it alone? that we can no longer rely on the united states? nato is the bedrock of the security of all of our countries, including britain. well, it is for now. and let's hope that it'll stay that way, and as the largest and strongest military alliance in history, that putin won't be so reckless as to attack us. let's turn, if i may now, to domestic challenges facing your government. you're foreign minister in mr tusk�*s government. you said that the election just a couple of months back,

which brought that change in office, was a civilisational choice of the polish people and you said that your government intended to roll back what you call, quote, "state ca pture". do you achieve that by, for example, firing everybody in the tv station, of doing things which the constitutional court in your own country says are illegal? is that the way to adhere to constitutionality and democratic values? well, the constitutional court got packed by the previous government, and imagine if your employer, the bbc, was packed by breitbart and started to broadcast really extreme, nasty partisan propaganda. and if a normal government returned, you couldn't tolerate people who did that. our state tv was in breach of its charter, which says that, just like yours,

that it should be an impartial, professional source of news. so, yes, some people did very bad things and they took a lot of money for it and they will be held accountable. yeah, but your problem is that many observers are now deeply concerned about your own government's adherence to constitutional propriety and democratic values. the helsinki foundation for human rights has, in recent weeks, talked about serious concerns with your government's record. dominika bychawska—siniarska — a lawyer, a human rights activist in poland — has said, "the kind "of political takeover we are seeing seems to repeat "those that we see every four to eight years "following elections." in other words, you're just as bad as the last lot. no. we had a turnout of 75%

in an election in which people protested against the corruption, the misuse of security services for party political advantage and really, really nasty, extreme propaganda which cannot be tolerated. we democrats must not be helpless when radicals try to change the system without having a constitutional majority. normal rules... "we democrats," you say, and i'm just looking at a quote from poland's highest court, castigating your government for the liquidation of the state media as it was just a few weeks ago. the problem you've got is that you seem to be saying to get back to democratic norms, we have to behave in an extraordinarily illiberalfashion. no. that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that poland's courts have partly been packed

and have partly started behaving according to the wishes of a political party, rather than being impartial. but that's exactly... and yes, the court system is split. if i may say so, minister, that's exactly what the pis said when they took power all those years ago. they said that the courts that they inherited were unacceptable, they were packed, they were partisan. except that, at that time, courts were duly selected and not selected by the politicians. it really is not equivalent. i'll give you an example. there is a huge hullabaloo about two politicians having been injail. those are people who manufactured a fake corruption case with forged documents against a member of their coalition — a deputy prime minister that they didn't like. they lost. they were convicted. they were convicted on appeal. and i hope you agree with me that such behaviour

cannot be tolerated. 0k, last question. in many democracies across the world — in europe, the united states, many others — we see a deep and profound and dangerous polarisation. isn't there a danger that in the next few months, we're going to see a deep polarisation continue in poland because president duda, who has his own mandate, can use a veto to stop many of the things you are trying to do? poland isn't coming out of the woods. poland is getting ever deeper into some very dangerous woods. president duda has his veto power and we respect it. just yesterday, he pardoned those two politicians who abused power and we have enacted that. we have released those people from prison, even though 65% of the polish people think that they should stay in prison. let that be the best proof

of our good intentions as regard the constitution. but i'm telling you again — the first things those people did on assuming power was to, for example, abolish competitive examinations in the civil service. it was a capture of the state and normal rules have to be brought back. all right. well, we're out of time, sadly but radek sikorski, i really thank you forjoining me from warsaw. thank you. hello there. temperatures will continue to fluctuate through the rest of this week. on sunday, of course, we saw temperatures in highland, scotland of 20 celsius. and after a frost, typical temperatures monday afternoon were 6 celsius. highest temperatures this time were across southern parts of the uk. cloud breaking up here and there to give some sunshine and 14 degrees in cambridgeshire. in between, we had thicker cloud on these weather fronts,

an area of low pressure, bringing some wet weather, that's moving away into the north sea. so it is turning drier. keeping more cloud, though, for england and wales. that'll keep the temperatures up. clearer skies for scotland and northern ireland. it could be a frosty start early in the morning, but the promise of more sunshine for scotland and northern ireland. a cloudy start for england and wales. still a bit dampness in the east, but we'll see some sunshine developing more widely as the cloud retreats back towards east anglia and the south—east. here, temperatures could make double figures, but i think 7—8 degrees is going to be nearer the mark. it could be the odd shower coming into north—west scotland, especially as the breeze picks up later in the day. and if we look to the north, by wednesday, this deep low is pushing between iceland and scotland, really strengthening the winds overnight. very windy for scotland, widespread gales, gusts of 80 miles an hour for a while in the far north. and this squally band of rain sweeps into scotland and northern ireland, picking the winds up here, gusty winds and some rain in the far north of england. further south across england and wales, the winds much lighter. and after a chilly, bright start, the cloud will increase and we'll

see top temperatures of ten or 11 degrees. that weather front bringing that rain move southwards but weakens, so little or no rain coming into southern parts of the uk. and then another weather front following in from the atlantic, eventually towards the north—west. but a dry, bright start with some sunshine for many, a little bit chilly on thursday. we will see the cloud increasing in northern ireland and particularly scotland with some rain arriving in the north—west, but still some sunshine for england and wales, although their temperatures will be a little bit lower on thursday, around nine degrees celsius. but those temperatures rise again for the end of the week. this strengthening south—westerly wind will bring with it some higher temperatures on friday. but because the winds are coming a long way over the atlantic, it will come with a lot of cloud, a little light rain or drizzle, mainly across western parts of scotland. but those temperatures by the end of the week on the mild side, again, widely 13 or 14 celsius.

the us has named the three soldiers killed in sunday's attack near thejordan—syria border. 46—year—old william jerome rivers, 24—year—old kennedy ladon sanders and 23—year—old breonna alexsondria moffett were all from an army reserve unit in the state of georgia. they were killed — and dozens more were injured — in the attack at a remote outpost called tower 22. the us says it does not seek another war, but it will protect itself and respond appropriately.

since israel's retaliation for the october 7th attacks,