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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  January 30, 2024 10:30pm-11:11pm GMT

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it's been an historic and dramatic 2a hours in northern ireland — stormont should soon be back in action and a nationalist takes the top job there — but what is the deal that's been agreed? we'll hear from the man at the heart of this — the dup'sjeffrey donaldson who's
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been talking to nick. we have worked hard over the last two years to deliver the progress that has now been secured and it will bring real change. also tonight: on a so—called "hit list" and fearing for their lives — a group of british sikh activists ask the government for protection. sima has the exclusive story. and we'll talk live to the conservative chair of the foreign affairs select committee about foreign threats to british citiziens, and to the leader of the uk support group for india's ruling party, about the accusations. and i'm in kyiv with ukraine's foreign minister has been talking to us about his country's challenges in the fight now against russia. and, thousands of women taking an anti—epilepsy drug have given birth to babies with disabilities —
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because they weren't warned about the dangers. tomorrow new restrictions on who can be prescribed sodium valporate come into force. we'll talk to a mum of four grown—up children — all born with disabilities after she was prescribed it throughout her pregnancies. it's been a dramatic and historic 2a hours in northern ireland, but what is the deal the democratic unionist party has agreed to, which we're told will lead to voters in northern ireland getting a functioning government back — after almost two years without one. here's nick's report from belfast. it's actually the difference between life and death, because if there is delays for people like me, it may be too late, but for other people coming behind me, there is hope. relief. i was pleasantly surprised. i'm very optimistic that the executive may be up and running, potentially up and running,
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in the next couple of weeks. obviously, there is a lot of things still to be sorted out. a cancer patient who believes treatment has suffered as politicians squabble, sees hope. an imminent restoration of power sharing means bigger decision making for the nhs. and the leader who made thejump — a monumental decision that will define sirjeffrey donaldson�*s career and could shape northern ireland for years. a nationalist will take the top slot for the first time, a step too far for some unionists. the best way to preserve the union by ending a two year power vacuum, says sirjeffrey. and so he has signed up to a three point plan involving an extra £35 billion for northern ireland overfive years, legislation to deal with the main unionist grievance — checks on goods travelling from great britain after the brexit deal left northern ireland in the eu
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single market for goods. northern ireland's place within the uk internal market will be confirmed, easing the passage of goods across the irish sea. and a big win for sirjeffrey donaldson as brussels announced a relaxing of eu rules governing the import of goods into northern ireland from the rest of the world. not good enough, say critics, because northern ireland will remain in the eu single market for goods to avoid a hard border on the island of ireland. that means goods crossing the irish sea at risk of entering the irish republic will still face checks. here we are in the great hall of stormont, once a symbol of unionist dominance, soon to be a shared space for both communities again. all of that after this big decision byjeffrey donaldson. why has he done that?
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pretty simple, really. he believes that the best way to secure the union is to have northern ireland governed in a stable way. and at the moment, there's only one way to do that — power sharing. critics say post—brexit northern ireland is treated differently to the rest of the uk and that, they say, is bad for the union. a man of caution allows himself a moment of celebration. well, we've worked hard, nick, over the last two years to deliver the progress that has now been secured. and it will bring real change. it will bring legal change in terms of how we deal with matters related to trade within the united kingdom. it will restore northern ireland's place within the united kingdom and its internal market. it will reaffirm our constitutional status. it will underpin our economic rights as part of the united kingdom. and that's important for me. it's important for unionists. and i think that when people see the full package that will be launched tomorrow, they will see the progress, the very real and significant
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progress we have made. and a welcome from sinn fein, which is on course for the post of first minister. well, we're in a building here which was set up to reflect, the idea of the state was created and specifically carved out to ensure that there was a perpetual unionist majority. and that majority has gone some time ago, a number of election cycles back. but this two years ago almost, michelle o'neill was elected to a position as the leader of the largest party in the assembly, of entitlement to the first minister's post. so of course, yes, in the history of ireland, in the history of the relationships between ireland and britain and the partition of ireland and the purpose behind that and how it was carved up, this is obviously a very historic occasion. a unionist leader takes a leap to preserve his political dream. history suggests he will do well if he keeps his party together. and we can talk to nick now.
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nick, you've knownjeffrey donaldson for 30 years. tell us about him and the significance of events over the last 2a hours. yes, victoria, when i was here for the times about 30 year ago, i knew jeffrey donaldson. if you wanted to know what was going on in the ulster unionist party, you would talk to jeffrey donaldson. he was a high—flyer in that party. during the good friday agreement he turned on the late david trimble and moved to the late david trimble and moved to the democratic unionist party. that showed jeffrey donaldson was no pushover. there was a press conference and he took an early version of the good friday paper and ripped it up in front of the cameras. but he is also a strategist and it has become clear thatjeffrey donaldson believes it is fundamentally in the interests of
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union ist to share power with sinn fein. this belief that you need stability here, the only way that you can do that is with power sharing, a lot of damage without a functioning government and the problems in the nhs, if he believes if there is ever a vote on a united ireland, you've to make this place work if you're going to preserve the union. 50 work if you're going to preserve the union. ., ., , , , all work if you're going to preserve the l union-— all the union. so what happens next? all the action tomorrow _ union. so what happens next? all the action tomorrow moves _ union. so what happens next? all the action tomorrow moves to _ action tomorrow moves to westminster. we will see a command paper with the idea, the concessions from the government for the dup. there will then be a debate on that secondary legislation on thursday. that should go through. and then the action will move here probably friday or saturday, the first thing is an election of a speaker and only once you have done that can the executive be formed. the view from the uk government, very cautious, no
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complacency. they know it is a divided party. jeffrey donaldson is confident that he has got it through his party, but what we will be looking for at that debate in westminster, we know there are some of his mps who are critics. what will they say? one said to me, why are we doing it now? this government will be finished soon. let's vote for labour, they're often better for us and maybe we would get more from them. next we're bringing you an extraordinary story that isn't being covered elsewhere and it involves the safety and security of some british sikhs living and working here in the uk whose lives could be in danger. they know that because the police have warned them, after some activists found themselves on a hit list that has been widely aired on indian television. they say it's because they have campaigned to establish a sikh state independent of india and they are so afraid that, on their behalf, today a group of mps met the government to ask
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for protection. the men blame the indian government for putting them in danger. the high commission of india in london didn't respond directly to the allegations, but told us today that "these are matters between uk citizens and their government. there is nothing in this that relates to the government of india." here's our uk editor sima kotecha. this man is worried. daily he prays for his safety and the safety of his fellow sikhs. some, like him, support a separate homeland through the creation of the state of khalistan. sikhs have had their homeland and all we're doing is demanding that we have that homeland now, because we feel we need it and our faith will only then prosper. some would argue that india is multi—faith. i mean, what would you say to that argument? i think in theory it's secular, but in practice we have seen, in the last ten years, in particular under narendra modi, the country really is no longer secular.
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minorities feel threatened on a daily basis. some sikh separatist activists are feeling particularly vulnerable, because of what happened in canada last year. the country believes india was behind the murder of a sikh leader who was campaigning for khalistan. india called the allegations "absurd". i think when the assassination happened in canada, people like myself that are outspoken and high profile immediately thought, "what do i need to do to protect me and my family? put up security, put up cameras?" but it's not going to stop me from speaking out, because what's going to be is going to be. and that's just a sikh way of living. there are also questions over the death of the sikh activist avtar singh khanda, who died in birmingham last year. there are concerns he was killed because of his views, but west midlands police say there was no evidence of any suspicious activity. and now what's being called a "hit
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list" is said to have been put together by india's national investigation agency, naming six british sikh men on a video. we've deliberately blurred it to protect their identity. one of the men named has spoken to newsnight. he said he was shocked to see his face appear in the footage. he says he's done nothing wrong. from the handful of khalistanis that we've spoken to who believe in an independent state for sikhs, they believe that india is behind the threats. but some in the indian diaspora say that they're the ones being divisive. today, the all—party parliamentary group, a group of cross—party mps, eight of us, met with the security minister, tom tugendhat.
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mp preet gill says some of the british men are now under police protection, after officers told them their lives could be at risk. the minister assured us that he takes transnational repression very, very seriously, it doesn't matter which state it is. and of course he's in touch with the five eyes alliance in australia in the united states and canada. in the us, the fbi recently released a punjabi public service announcement to reassure sikhs who are feeling threatened. british khalistanis are calling for something similar to be broadcast in the uk. but someone close to both governments who has intimate knowledge of this story urges caution. tonight, they say that this list is not a hit list, but a list of people with known links to trouble making and pro khalistan subversive activities. of course, not all sikhs are khalistanis, but those who are asked should they be threatened or worse just for their opinion?
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the government here says it continually assesses potential threats in the uk and takes the protection of individuals rights, freedom and safety seriously. how real is this threat? let's talk to the conservative chair of the foreign affairs select committee alicia kearns. and kuldeep shekhawat, president of overseas friends of bjp — the bjp is india's ruling party. welcome to both of you. kuldeep shekhawat you heard a british sikh who is campaigning for an independent state says he fears for his life, should he? ha. independent state says he fears for his life, should he?— his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say — his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say that _ his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say that this _ his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say that this is _ his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say that this is just - his life, should he? no. well, i can clearly say that this is just a - clearly say that this is just a statement created by the media. ida. statement created by the media. no, it is not created by the media, that was him talking to ourjournalist. you showed an indian hit—list. who
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created it? why. you you showed an indian hit-list. who created it? why.— created it? why. you can tell us that india's _ created it? why. you can tell us that india's national _ created it? why. you can tell us| that india's national investigation agency is not behind that list. yes. agency is not behind that list. yes, very clearly- _ agency is not behind that list. yes, very clearly- why — agency is not behind that list. yes, very clearly. why hasn't _ agency is not behind that list. yes, very clearly. why hasn't india - very clearly. why hasn't india denied it then? _ very clearly. why hasn't india denied it then? if _ very clearly. why hasn't india denied it then? if you - very clearly. why hasn't india denied it then? if you ask - very clearly. why hasn't india j denied it then? if you ask the government _ denied it then? if you ask the government they _ denied it then? if you ask the government they will - denied it then? if you ask the government they will deep i denied it then? if you ask the | government they will deep it. denied it then? if you ask the - government they will deep it. we are not government. i'm just an activist you can say. my whole idea is why a british national should be worried about indian agencies, he is a british national and he lives in britain. what actions he is taking in britain, whatever he is doing in britain is britain's problem. it is nothing to do with india. do you accept it as nothing to do with india? i do you accept it as nothing to do with india?— do you accept it as nothing to do with india?_ with india? i do not know the secifics with india? i do not know the specifics of — with india? i do not know the specifics of the _ with india? i do not know the specifics of the case - with india? i do not know the specifics of the case but - with india? i do not know the specifics of the case but are l with india? i do not know the - specifics of the case but are there examples — specifics of the case but are there examples of transnational threats
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taking _ examples of transnational threats taking place? of course. we had the case in _ taking place? of course. we had the case in canada of course what justin trudeau _ case in canada of course what justin trudeau said that there was indian state _ trudeau said that there was indian state involvement sell transnational oppression is such a priority that the security minister tom tugendhat has launched a task force were transnational oppression is a core element — transnational oppression is a core element of— transnational oppression is a core element of that. this is on the rise and bring _ element of that. this is on the rise and bring industrialised around the world _ and bring industrialised around the world so — and bring industrialised around the world so it— and bring industrialised around the world. so it could happen in the uk? i world. so it could happen in the uk? i cannot_ world. so it could happen in the uk? i cannot comment because ijust do not know— i cannot comment because ijust do not know but anything of course could _ not know but anything of course could happen from pretty much any country— could happen from pretty much any country in _ could happen from pretty much any country in the world. we are seeing more _ country in the world. we are seeing more of— country in the world. we are seeing more of it— country in the world. we are seeing more of it because it seems that some _ more of it because it seems that some countries, there is nothing there _ some countries, there is nothing there that — some countries, there is nothing there that he more than their own people. _ there that he more than their own people, people from their country criticising — people, people from their country criticising them. for example vladimir— criticising them. for example vladimir putin he will win endlessly had time _ vladimir putin he will win endlessly had time people who are from russia
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because _ had time people who are from russia because he _ had time people who are from russia because he sees them as traitors to him _ because he sees them as traitors to him. do— because he sees them as traitors to him. , ., ~' because he sees them as traitors to him. i. ,, ., him. do you think that the uk government _ him. do you think that the uk government is _ him. do you think that the uk government is doing - him. do you think that the uk government is doing enough l him. do you think that the uk. government is doing enough to protect these people? more government is doing enough to protect these people? more than ever before, i protect these people? more than ever before. i know — protect these people? more than ever before. i know a _ protect these people? more than ever before, i know a number _ protect these people? more than ever before, i know a number of _ protect these people? more than ever before, i know a number of people - before, i know a number of people unfortunately have targets on the head and — unfortunately have targets on the head and they receive significant protection from the police. the reason — protection from the police. the reason why mps have gone to see the n1inister— reason why mps have gone to see the minister today is because the police have reached out to these activists to say— have reached out to these activists to say we — have reached out to these activists to say we think there is the threat against _ to say we think there is the threat against you. but is the place making sure the _ against you. but is the place making sure the people are not walking around — sure the people are not walking around unaware of threats against them _ around unaware of threats against them and — around unaware of threats against them and doing all they can to put protection — them and doing all they can to put protection in place. so for me the uk government and police are demonstrating that their monitoring threats— demonstrating that their monitoring threats and doing all they can to protect— threats and doing all they can to protect people. do threats and doing all they can to protect purple-— threats and doing all they can to protect people. do you accept that british sikhs _ protect people. do you accept that british sikhs who _ protect people. do you accept that british sikhs who want _ protect people. do you accept that british sikhs who want to - protect people. do you accept that| british sikhs who want to campaign for an independent state and independent of india should be allowed to do that? it is independent of india should be allowed to do that?— independent of india should be allowed to do that? it is not our problem- _ allowed to do that? it is not our problem- i— allowed to do that? it is not our problem- i am _ allowed to do that? it is not our problem. i amjust _ allowed to do that? it is not our problem. i am just asking - allowed to do that? it is not our problem. i am just asking for i allowed to do that? it is not our l problem. i am just asking for your problem. i am 'ust asking for your oinion.
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problem. i am 'ust asking for your opinion. if— problem. i am just asking for your opinion. if they _ problem. i am just asking for your opinion. if they are _ problem. i am just asking for your opinion. if they are in _ problem. i am just asking for your opinion. if they are in britain - problem. i am just asking for your opinion. if they are in britain and| opinion. if they are in britain and our british _ opinion. if they are in britain and our british nationals _ opinion. if they are in britain and our british nationals they - opinion. if they are in britain and our british nationals they have i opinion. if they are in britain and our british nationals they have a | our british nationals they have a right to speak what they want to speak. the indian government will only be worried if an indian sikhs is involved. this is british sikhs speaking in britain and it is an open country and democratic nation so they can speak.— so they can speak. nothing for an one so they can speak. nothing for anyone to _ so they can speak. nothing for anyone to be _ so they can speak. nothing for anyone to be worried - so they can speak. nothing for anyone to be worried about? l so they can speak. nothing forj anyone to be worried about? if so they can speak. nothing for - anyone to be worried about? if they are speaking _ anyone to be worried about? if they are speaking about _ anyone to be worried about? if they are speaking about khalistan - anyone to be worried about? if they are speaking about khalistan in - anyone to be worried about? if they are speaking about khalistan in this| are speaking about khalistan in this country then let them. where is the problem? we don't have a problem. as long as they do not do it in india. and in indian nationals are doing it they are different.— they are different. what would ha en they are different. what would happen then? _ they are different. what would happen then? they _ they are different. what would happen then? they will- they are different. what would happen then? they will deal. they are different. what would i happen then? they will deal with they are different. what would - happen then? they will deal with the matter and the _ happen then? they will deal with the matter and the law _ happen then? they will deal with the matter and the law should _ happen then? they will deal with the matter and the law should take - happen then? they will deal with the matter and the law should take its i matter and the law should take its own course. but as long as it is happening in britain then why should
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we be worried about it? ila. happening in britain then why should we be worried about it?— happening in britain then why should we be worried about it? no. we have heard ou we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say — we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say this _ we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say this is _ we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say this is nothing - we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say this is nothing to - we be worried about it? no. we have heard you say this is nothing to do i heard you say this is nothing to do with the indian government, if it is true that india is allegedly targeting certain british sikhs, and the canadian government accused india of being behind the killing of a leader last year, what should the uk government do when it comes to dramatic relations? the british government wants a trade deal with india but what should they do? if your friends can cause difficulties when _ your friends can cause difficulties when they— your friends can cause difficulties when they overreach within our country — when they overreach within our country. canada have maintained relationships with india but are proceeding with a full investigation. in the uk you would have a _ investigation. in the uk you would have a police investigation and judicial— have a police investigation and judicial process if there were grounds _ judicial process if there were grounds to do so. the government would _ grounds to do so. the government would maintain that relationship and keep the _ would maintain that relationship and keep the channels open but also so
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you can _ keep the channels open but also so you can make clear what the red lines _ you can make clear what the red lines are — you can make clear what the red lines are. this is one of the issues back— lines are. this is one of the issues back with — lines are. this is one of the issues back with the manchester consulate attack _ back with the manchester consulate attack i _ back with the manchester consulate attack i was not happy with the government response because it was not tough _ government response because it was not tough enough and we have got to make _ not tough enough and we have got to make it _ not tough enough and we have got to make it clear, in your country we may— make it clear, in your country we may work— make it clear, in your country we may work with our allies to try to make _ may work with our allies to try to make sure — may work with our allies to try to make sure that it is a more healthy climate _ make sure that it is a more healthy climate. ~ ., make sure that it is a more healthy climate. ~ . ., climate. what about the poisonings? we did expel — climate. what about the poisonings? we did expel russian _ climate. what about the poisonings? we did expel russian diplomats. - climate. what about the poisonings? we did expel russian diplomats. i i we did expel russian diplomats. i would _ we did expel russian diplomats. i would have gone a lot further but my view is _ would have gone a lot further but my view is if— would have gone a lot further but my view is if you — would have gone a lot further but my view is if you are not firm at home then— view is if you are not firm at home then it _ view is if you are not firm at home then it sends— view is if you are not firm at home then it sends a message not only that you're — then it sends a message not only that you're open for them to do further— that you're open for them to do further to— that you're open for them to do further to your home but they have complete _ further to your home but they have complete freedom abroad. sol further to your home but they have complete freedom abroad. so i would have had _ complete freedom abroad. so i would have had a _ complete freedom abroad. so i would have had a much tougher response. and lord _ have had a much tougher response. and lord cameron yesterday announcing new sanctions targeting iranian officials responsible for threat to kill on uk soil. sanctions pretty much all we can do? it is difficult for _ pretty much all we can do? it is difficult for us _ pretty much all we can do? it is difficult for us to _ pretty much all we can do? it is difficult for us to reach these
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people — difficult for us to reach these people as you can imagine, we do have _ people as you can imagine, we do have an _ people as you can imagine, we do have an embassy in iran but that is it. have an embassy in iran but that is it this— have an embassy in iran but that is it this is— have an embassy in iran but that is it this is one _ have an embassy in iran but that is it. this is one problem i have with iran, _ it. this is one problem i have with iran, which— it. this is one problem i have with iran, which keep comment, which keep compartmentalising different issues with them. there are nuclear ambitions, arming of russia, but we need _ ambitions, arming of russia, but we need to— ambitions, arming of russia, but we need to stop — ambitions, arming of russia, but we need to stop doing that and put them together— need to stop doing that and put them together as a cohesive and then see something _ together as a cohesive and then see something more comprehensive in the way we _ something more comprehensive in the way we respond to it. but there are major— way we respond to it. but there are major concerns about iranian transnational oppression beyond attempted assassinations on uk sure. ithink— attempted assassinations on uk sure. i think that _ attempted assassinations on uk sure. i think that will get worse in the terrorist — i think that will get worse in the terrorist threat within the region is getting — terrorist threat within the region is getting worse. it terrorist threat within the region is getting worse-— terrorist threat within the region is getting worse. a final word, what is getting worse. a final word, what is our is getting worse. a final word, what is your message — is getting worse. a final word, what is your message to _ is getting worse. a final word, what is your message to those _ is getting worse. a final word, what is your message to those british i is your message to those british sikhs who are campaigning in this country and who are having to have police protection because they fear for their lives? police protection because they fear fortheir lives? i police protection because they fear for their lives?— for their lives? i will make it very clear, for their lives? i will make it very clear. lndia _ for their lives? i will make it very clear, india is _ for their lives? i will make it very clear, india is a _ for their lives? i will make it very clear, india is a sovereign - for their lives? i will make it very | clear, india is a sovereign country
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and so is britain. so have you ever seenin and so is britain. so have you ever seen in the entire history of india of india having attacked anyone? no. it is not an aggressive state. it will behave in a democratic way. if a country is democratically working they should not be worried. so they have nothing _ they should not be worried. so they have nothing to _ they should not be worried. so they have nothing to worry _ they should not be worried. so they have nothing to worry about? - they should not be worried. so they| have nothing to worry about? thank you both very much. later this week european leaders will decide whether or not to send more aid to ukraine. at the same time $61 billion worth of weapons are being blocked by republicans in the us congress and it's being reported that donald trump will make sure it stays that way. add to that splits within ukraine over how many soldiers to call up for the coming campaign and it's clearjust how difficult the outlook is for president zelensky�*s government. mark is live in kyiv. tell us about what appears to be
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very difficult relationship now between president zelensky and his top general in charge of ukrainian army? top general in charge of ukrainian arm ? , ~ top general in charge of ukrainian arm ? , . .., top general in charge of ukrainian arm ? , . .. ., army? yes, indeed. we came here for the reasons — army? yes, indeed. we came here for the reasons you _ army? yes, indeed. we came here for the reasons you just _ the reasons you just mentioned, the coming together of all these headwinds, this difficulties facing ukraine and trying to work out how it will prosecute its war against the russian invader and its coming year. now tonight reports by bbc russia, the guardian newspaper and bfp suggesting that yesterday president zelensky tried to move the commander of his armed forces to anotherjob and the general refused to go. they have been at loggerheads apparently with recriminations about why the offensive in the summer did not achieve more but also they've beenin not achieve more but also they've been in dispute about this mobilisation of law. the general saying they need to pull out half a
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million soldiers and president zelensky does not want to call up that many. we discussed the differences between the men when we met the foreign minister this afternoon and he described it as a youtube conspiracy theory that he did not want to comment about at the time. we did not want to comment about at the time. ~ ., did not want to comment about at the time. ~ . ., time. we will hear that interfere in 'ust a time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment _ time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment but _ time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment but what _ time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment but what is - time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment but what is at - time. we will hear that interfere in just a moment but what is at stake first with this you money, what does it mean if it does not get signed off? , , ,., ., , it mean if it does not get signed off? , , ., , , off? this is important, this is the reason for _ off? this is important, this is the reason for a _ off? this is important, this is the reason for a special _ off? this is important, this is the reason for a special summit - off? this is important, this is the reason for a special summit of. off? this is important, this is the| reason for a special summit of eu leaders. 50 billion euros over the next few years and essentially they would not be able to pay civil servants, people working in hospitals and parts of the military if they do not get this money. so inevitably when i did sit down with the foreign minister this afternoon, our attention is turned first to that summit in brussels. well, everything we've heard so far from our european friends is that this package will get through one way or another.
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it's just a matter of having or not having hungary on board. but the message coming from both the commission, other leaders of the european union and nation and member states is that ukraine will get these resources. when we're not here, and you're talking about the hungarians, is that a conversation with lots of swearing and exasperation? i mean, do you understand why they're doing what they're doing in this context? no, it's not about emotion. it's neither about emotions nor about swearing. we know hungary very well. they know us very well. yesterday we spent six hours talking with the hungarian foreign minister, trying to sort things out, to address fears, concerns and misconceptions about each other that both sides have. but the challenges are complex, aren't they? i mean, if we look across the atlantic, there's another aid package, mainly military assistance being held up in washington
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because of republicans in congress. and the suggestion now that donald trump has basically given the signal that he doesn't want that to go through before the election in november. that's another very tricky problem, isn't it? funnily enough, last december i was more certain about the congress decision than about the european council decision on opening accession talks with ukraine and adopting the financial assistance. but now i'm more concerned. it's now tables turned, and i'm more concerned with the dynamics in the us congress than with the dynamics in the european union. when i talk to people in london, defence people who are assisting your country and desperately want you to make further military progress, they talk about the difficulties that these actions in the us cause,
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for example, not knowing how many shells you'll have in april or not knowing how much money you will have. how do you plan for the campaign ahead amidst these uncertainties? that's a good question. you see, what we learned is that the war is a combination of math, endurance and philosophy. and if one of the elements falls out, you face the problem that you really have to address immediately. 0therwise, pieces will not stick together and it's not going to work out. so, of course, the math exercise is very complicated. and speaking about math, i'm referring exactly to the notion of how many artillery shells we're going to have, how many tanks we're going to have, how many long range missiles we're going to have available to us. but there is not a single situation that does not have a solution. so if we don't get enough of artillery ammunition from one
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place, we are already thinking of the other place where we can get it. but i think whatever the price of supporting ukraine is, fixing the world, if ukraine does not win, will be much, much higher. look, we've talked about outside assistance, but obviously the key part of this has always been ukrainian efforts. ukrainian blood. the army says it wants 500,000 soldiers now. do you think they'll get them? do you think this country will mobilise that many people to fight during the coming year? well, this is not the question that i can precisely answer, because it's the generals who are planning the campaign. but, you know, i have a son who's 17 years old and he will turn 18 in a couple of months in april. he's taking the military classes, shooting. and when we had lunch just two days
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ago, we talked about it. and i understand that he and his mates in the university, they all realise that they may also have to go and fight, because this is their country and this is the country that they feel they have to defend. so in the end, generals always want numbers which impress people. but the most important element is different. the most important element is that as long as the people of ukraine believe that this country has to be defended, we will keep fighting. thank you very much. thousands of women with epilepsy have given birth to babies with disabilities after they took an anti—epilepsy
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drug during pregnancy, because they weren t warned about the dangers. the drug — called valproate or sodium valproate — has caused autism, learning difficulties and physical disabilities in up to 20,000 babies in britain. fomer health secretaryjeremy hunt once compared the effects on unborn babies to the scandal of the morning—sickness drug thalidomide, which caused disabilities in thousands of babies after it was licensed in the uk in the 1950s. tomorrow extra new restrictions come in which will tighten further who valproate is prescribed to. kate is here. tell our audience about it. tens of thousands of _ tell our audience about it. tens of thousands of people _ tell our audience about it. tens of thousands of people take - tell our audience about it. tens of| thousands of people take valproate to manage epilepsy and other conditions. forsome to manage epilepsy and other conditions. for some it will be the only drug that can control their seizures. but since valproate came
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on the market it was known it could affect foetal development in animals. ., ., affect foetal development in animals. . . affect foetal development in animals. ~ . . we affect foetal development in animals. ~ ., ., we have animals. what are the risks? we have learned a lot. — animals. what are the risks? we have learned a lot, but today _ animals. what are the risks? we have learned a lot, but today studies - learned a lot, but today studies suggest around 11% of children born to women who take valproate have major congenital disorders. that is higher than the general population. 30 to 40% of the children experience delays in early development, like walking and talking and memory problems and lower intellectual abilities and there is an increased risk of autism spectrum and adhd. did the people know about the risks? the committee of safety of medicines recommended for women of child bearing age it could only be used in severe cases or for women who
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couldn't use any other treatment. those who prescribed have been clear those risks were not always shared with them, or their concerns were dismissed by medical staff. an independent review recommended that a scheme should be set up to meet the cost of providing additional care forfamilies who the cost of providing additional care for families who experienced what they described as avoidable harm. that recommendation was rejected by the government. what harm. that recommendation was rejected by the government. what is ha enin: rejected by the government. what is happening tomorrow? _ rejected by the government. what is happening tomorrow? regulations i rejected by the government. what is i happening tomorrow? regulations have been tightening — happening tomorrow? regulations have been tightening in _ happening tomorrow? regulations have been tightening in 2018 _ happening tomorrow? regulations have been tightening in 2018 a _ happening tomorrow? regulations have been tightening in 2018 a pregnancy - been tightening in 2018 a pregnancy prevention programme was introduced for those who are prescribed it. since then the number on the drug has reduced. but there are examples of a prescription starting the same month as a pregnancy started. but no patient male or female will be given the drug unless two independent special ists say there the drug unless two independent specialists say there are no
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alternatives. let's speak now to karen buck, a mum of four grown up children — all of whom have disabilities — karen was taking valproate to treat her epilepsy during herfour pregnancies. karen, thank you for being with us. were you warned about the risks? ila. were you warned about the risks? no, not at all. were you warned about the risks? no, rrot at all- not — were you warned about the risks? no, not at all. not in _ were you warned about the risks? no, not at all. not in any _ were you warned about the risks? no, not at all. not in any of the _ not at all. not in any of the pregnancies? _ not at all. not in any of the pregnancies? no, - not at all. not in any of the pregnancies? no, it- not at all. not in any of the pregnancies? no, it wasn't| not at all. not in any of the - pregnancies? no, it wasn't untili had my third _ pregnancies? no, it wasn't untili had my third child _ pregnancies? no, it wasn't untili had my third child and _ pregnancies? no, it wasn't untili had my third child and i _ pregnancies? no, it wasn't untili had my third child and i was six i had my third child and i was six months programme that i was told that i had a spina bifida caught and i was told to wait for a consultant to speak to me. they left me there nora to speak to me. they left me there nor a whole hour crying, not knowing what this condition was. and when i came out of that room, i saw a nurse going papps and iflagged her down and said, this a doctor around, i
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need to speak to someone. when she said, who are you? and i said, i was a woman in that room with all them consultants telling me and looking on the screen and looking at me and saying that i had a child inside me which was basically a spina bifida child. ., ., . , ., child. you had three children before this and they _ child. you had three children before this and they had _ child. you had three children before this and they had disabilities - child. you had three children before this and they had disabilities to - child. you had three children before this and they had disabilities to a i this and they had disabilities to a greater or lesser extent. when you were pregnant with brigitte was no onejoining the dots. i were pregnant with brigitte was no one joining the dots.— one joining the dots. i didn't think there was anything _ one joining the dots. i didn't think there was anything wrong - one joining the dots. i didn't think there was anything wrong with - there was anything wrong with josephine orjohn. i thought they were normal children. it didn't come apparent until my daughter, when i had her, that... how so severe she
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was that i knew and i linked it to the medication.— was that i knew and i linked it to the medication.- i - was that i knew and i linked it to the medication.- i did. l was that i knew and i linked it to the medication.- i did. the medication. you did? i did. you were the first _ the medication. you did? i did. you were the first person? _ the medication. you did? i did. you were the first person? i _ the medication. you did? i did. you were the first person? i was, - the medication. you did? i did. you were the first person? i was, i - the medication. you did? i did. you were the first person? i was, i had| were the first person? i was, i had --eole were the first person? i was, i had people telling _ were the first person? i was, i had people telling me _ were the first person? i was, i had people telling me it _ were the first person? i was, i had people telling me it is _ were the first person? i was, i had people telling me it isjust - were the first person? i was, i had people telling me it isjust one of. people telling me it is just one of those things, it happens. it wasn't the medication, it isjust unfortunate, that is what i kept going —— getting. you became pregnant with christine. yes. how is she? she is ok to look at, but because her mental state and that, she isolates herself from everybody. she don't you know really interact with people. fist she don't you know really interact with people-— with people. at that point did an one with people. at that point did anyone say. _ with people. at that point did anyone say, hang _ with people. at that point did anyone say, hang on - with people. at that point did anyone say, hang on a - with people. at that point did i anyone say, hang on a minute, with people. at that point did - anyone say, hang on a minute, you now have four children with disabilities, physical disabilities, sometimes learning disabilitieses let's look at this, ie what drugs
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you kwr taken. ila let's look at this, ie what drugs you kwrtaken-_ let's look at this, ie what drugs you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands— you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands and _ you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands and i _ you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands and i had _ you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands and i had my - you kwr taken. no i took it in my own hands and i had my tubes i you kwr taken. no i took it in my. own hands and i had my tubes tied. you kwr taken. no i took it in my- own hands and i had my tubes tied. i what it is it like looking after the children. , w , what it is it like looking after the children. , .,, , .,, what it is it like looking after the children. , , .,, ., what it is it like looking after the children. , ., ., , what it is it like looking after the children. , . . , ., children. josephine has a family of her own now- _ children. josephine has a family of her own now. for _ children. josephine has a family of her own now. for her, _ children. josephine has a family of her own now. for her, she - children. josephine has a family of her own now. for her, she is - children. josephine has a family of| her own now. for her, she is trying to live her life. but obviously she's got spinal problems. but she is trying to live her life. and she's has a little baby herself. i do help herfrom time to she's has a little baby herself. i do help her from time to time. she's has a little baby herself. i do help herfrom time to time. but withjohn, he has a twisted problem and he suffered with dyslexia and he
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has breathing problems. but nobody wants to help. nobody wants to acknowledge these problems. 0bviously, brigitte, she is the world's worst, nobody wants to take accountability for it. nobody wants to help. accountability for it. nobody wants to hel. ~ , ., �* accountability for it. nobody wants to hel, . �* accountability for it. nobody wants to hel. ~ �* ., to help. when you're looking after briaitte, to help. when you're looking after brigitte. that _ to help. when you're looking after brigitte. that is — to help. when you're looking after brigitte, that is presumably - to help. when you're looking after brigitte, that is presumably that l to help. when you're looking after| brigitte, that is presumably that is 24/7? it brigitte, that is presumably that is 24/7? , brigitte, that is presumably that is 24/7?- seven _ brigitte, that is presumably that is 24/7? it is. seven days a week. brigitte, that is presumably that is 24/7?- seven days a week. 24/7? it is. seven days a week. yes, she is bed — 24”? it is. seven days a week. yes, she is bed bound. _ 24/7? it is. seven days a week. yes, she is bed bound. i _ 24”? it is. seven days a week. yes, she is bed bound. i don't _ 24”? it is. seven days a week. yes, she is bed bound. i don't get - she is bed bound. i don't get no help from no one. i got cancer and it wasn't until i was having chemo, four years in my remission, that i finally got carers to help. so i have a carer now come in from 10 until half 4. that is the only help i get. until half 4. that is the only help i net. ~ ., , ., until half 4. that is the only help i et. ~ ., , ., ., until half 4. that is the only help icet.~ .,, ., ., until half 4. that is the only help iaet. ., until half 4. that is the only help icet.~ .,, ., ., ., i get. who is, who do you blame for this? who is — i get. who is, who do you blame for this? who is responsible? _
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i get. who is, who do you blame for this? who is responsible? there - i get. who is, who do you blame for this? who is responsible? there is. i get. who is, who do you blame for| this? who is responsible? there is a few --eole this? who is responsible? there is a few people i — this? who is responsible? there is a few people i blame. _ this? who is responsible? there is a few people i blame. i— this? who is responsible? there is a few people i blame. i don't - this? who is responsible? there is a few people i blame. i don't think - few people i blame. i don't think i'm allowed to name names. if i could, then i would say it. but obviously you've got the drug there. you've got the government and you've got the nhs. and you've got the people that supply the drugs. i do believe that they are all have accountability for this. because they knew. they did know. and i'm left a single mother now, trying to look after this sick little girl. who is now a young woman, who is bedridden with brain damage. i have to clear her bowels out, i have to feed her. she has multiple different illnesses. she's even got a
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gastro—syndrome, where she has seizures 24/7. i have to issue emergency med and suction her out. there is so much stuff i have to do. i even have my own condition you see and i don't get no help for that. i don't flow if you heard kate say there was a review into this drug and one of the recommendations that was that there should be some kind of scheme set up to pay redress, to pay compensation effectively, not that you can compensate for what you and your children have gone through, but perhaps it would have helped you pay for carers to come into your home. but the government rejected that at the time. home. but the government re'ected that at the timefi home. but the government rejected that at the time.- how- home. but the government rejected that at the time.- how did | that at the time. they did. how did ou feel that at the time. they did. how did you feel about _ that at the time. they did. how did you feel about that? _ that at the time. they did. how did you feel about that? how - that at the time. they did. how did you feel about that? how would i that at the time. they did. how did | you feel about that? how would any mother feel? _ you feel about that? how would any mother feel? i'm _ you feel about that? how would any mother feel? i'm mourning - you feel about that? how would any mother feel? i'm mourning my - motherfeel? i'm mourning my daughter now and when she does die i ain't even got the money to actually bury my child. you know? i have to
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save up bit by bit p. i can't even get insurance on my daughter. people have life insurance, i can't get insurance for my daughter, because of her disability. how would that make any mother feel? i can't even go out there and get a job, because i have to look after my sick little girl. how would that make any mother feel? i can't even have a life. you know? how would that make any mother feel? when she was 19 she was in hospital fighting for her life. this has happened several times, i have got oxygen in my house which i have to give to my daughter. no mother
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should have to you

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