think children. what lessons do you think could be learnt from this? well. could be learnt from this? well, what we need _ could be learnt from this? well, what we need to _ could be learnt from this? well, what we need to understand - could be learnt from this? well, what we need to understand is l could be learnt from this? j” what we need to understand is what to wear the warning signs? who saw them, who shared them and what did those people do about them? are there issues about the multi—issue partnerships in health and education in children with social care and in health biz was that information shared and proper assessments made? in every case review there will be something about information not being shared. the devil will be in the detail. what information was shared and what risk that was buried and it was understood? d0 shared and what risk that was buried and it was understood?— and it was understood? do you think they should — and it was understood? do you think they should be _ and it was understood? do you think they should be a _ and it was understood? do you think they should be a review? _ and it was understood? do you think they should be a review? there - they should be a review? there absolutely _ they should be a review? there absolutely has _ they should be a review? there absolutely has to _ they should be a review? there absolutely has to be _ they should be a review? there absolutely has to be a - they should be a review? there absolutely has to be a review. i they should be a review? there i absolutely has to be a review. the local authority has already commissioned a review and that has been agreed by the national panel.

they will accept the terms of reference to help extrapolate all this down. those involved in social work, education, health and the criminaljustice work, education, health and the criminal justice system, work, education, health and the criminaljustice system, they are there to help people. when something goes wrong, they will want to reflect on what lessons can be learned. i think we all need to do that because after something awful like this, emotion takes over, you cannot help and your heart breaks when you see what has happened to brianna. you have to look at the nuance of it. within the system, we have too few individuals with far too much work to do and they are not properly supported. we have got to look at that. was it an issue that these things weren't seen. was this predictable, was it preventable? those were the lessons we have to

learn. my heart goes out to brianna's family. we can talk about this from a distance, they are in the midst of the domestic crisis, heartbreaking crisis and the are going to calorie this legacy forever. what we can do within the system is make sure we leave no stone unturned as we try and establish wide these children do what they did? what were the signs and did the partnerships do everything possible to divert them to coming to the point where the brutally murdered another child? just before you go, i am taking in everything you were saying here but at the end of this, we have two young offenders are now entering the criminaljustice young offenders are now entering the criminal justice system. young offenders are now entering the criminaljustice system. is there enoughin criminaljustice system. is there enough in place for any form of rehabilitation? is there enough available when it comes to education, may be mental health

screening? education, may be mental health screeninu? ~ education, may be mental health screening?— education, may be mental health screeninu? ~ ., , ., ., screening? well, the answer to that as i do not think _ screening? well, the answer to that as i do not think there _ screening? well, the answer to that as i do not think there is _ screening? well, the answer to that as i do not think there is enough - screening? well, the answer to that as i do not think there is enough in l as i do not think there is enough in place. as i said to you earlier, we have had a crisis in doubling of mental health issues as the manifest with young people seeking help and support. that is not going to be any better within the prison system. there are going to be real issues. because these young people have been named, they are going to be at risk in prison because people will play out their own form of internal justice and there is nothing that drives that level of emotion and anger than the type of motor that they have been involved in. —— the type of murder. they have been involved in. -- the type of murder-— type of murder. very distressing details. more _ type of murder. very distressing details. more questions - type of murder. very distressing details. more questions than - type of murder. very distressing - details. more questions than answers right now. thank you very much for joining us here on bbc news.

throughout today we have been getting more and more information from cheshire police as they have been releasing video footage, cctv and there was pictures of the two convicted murderers there side by side you can see scarlettjenkinson and eddie radcliffe. they were the first images to be released by the police asjudge mrs first images to be released by the police as judge mrs justice first images to be released by the police asjudge mrsjustice yip did say there identities could be revealed today. this is part of the police evidence. the two were known to have written lists of serial killers they liked, or kill lists, as they were called. a lot of those exhibits being released. this has become a huge, huge focus of the

public�*s attention and a lot of public�*s attention and a lot of public interest in this case. police have been releasing quite a lot to us. there is another letter, possibly another kill list our list of serial killers. they also passed notes between one another that was released during this trial. we are just getting to see some of this. as we get a better idea and a better picture in the run up to brianna gay's motor. —— brianna's murder. this is police body camera footage released to us footage of his arrest. i don't know what home that took place in. and then the arrest of scarlettjenkinson. if you can

just about see her face there. it is quite dark but in one of the pictures, the next image there, she does look quite visibly upset and nodding to officers. you can see scarlettjenkinson and eddie radcliffe. that is are the —— thatis eddie radcliffe. that is are the —— that is as they go to meet brianna. brianna thought she was meeting friends but moments later she stabbed 20 times by the pair on her head, neck, and chest. you see them walking off into the distance there.

and then just after the murder this is radcliffe as he boards a bus, pays for his ticket, calmly gets on board and then makes his way from the scene. and then finallyjust after the merger as well, you can see —— camera footage that police have released to us. making their way from the scene together on foot. this is all of the evidence the police will have shown to the court before both of those teenagers were found guilty of the murder and we will be expecting the sentencing in the coming minutes. we will be going live to the court for that to listen to the judge. live to the court for that to listen to thejudge. let's live to the court for that to listen to the judge. let's talk more now

with stuart. good to have you. what are your thoughts on naming the teenagers? the what are your thoughts on naming the teenaaers? ., ., teenagers? the 'udge will have to balance teenagers? the judge will have to balance considerations. _ teenagers? the judge will have to balance considerations. it - teenagers? the judge will have to balance considerations. it is - teenagers? the judge will have to balance considerations. it is open | balance considerations. it is open justice. they are assumed to have their anonymity in youth court. in their anonymity in youth court. in the crown court it is somewhat different. during the crown process, their anonymity would have been preserved to make sure the crown process was safe and they had a fair trial. people can be named after conviction. applications can be named to keep people anonymous. the judge will have balanced the public

interest. against the right of the child, the welfare. 0ne interest. against the right of the child, the welfare. one of the aims of the criminal justice child, the welfare. one of the aims of the criminaljustice system is to prevent people, children, committing crime. we are signed up to the rights of children. it is always a very, very strong public interest in cases like this, which are rare, terrible circumstances we are hearing about. the public want to know about this. there is an argument about deterrent. you know more about the crime, it is a deterrent. therefore, a public interest in doing that.- deterrent. therefore, a public interest in doing that. earlier i was speaking _ interest in doing that. earlier i was speaking to _ interest in doing that. earlier i was speaking to the _ interest in doing that. earlier i l was speaking to the co-director interest in doing that. earlier i - was speaking to the co-director of was speaking to the co—director of the youth justice was speaking to the co—director of the youthjustice legal centre and she was saying that this is not the right decision and it is against the human right of a child. i can

right decision and it is against the human right of a child.— human right of a child. i can see the argument. _ human right of a child. i can see the argument. it _ human right of a child. i can see the argument. it is _ human right of a child. i can see the argument. it is often - human right of a child. i can see the argument. it is often said i human right of a child. i can see the argument. it is often said it| human right of a child. i can see l the argument. it is often said it is a punishment to the child when it is not supposed to be one. yes, they could be very vulnerable in sight. they could see reoffending rates of young people in general, notjust related to these crimes, compared to adults, is greater. there are arguments to say it is a deterrent but there are also plausible arguments to say it would not work. another thought is that as a punishment for the family as well, those who have committed no crime. i can see the argument for that as well. i am sure that would have been in the mind ofjudge mrsjustice yip. it is a rare case and the

balance often falls on the site of the public knowing about this. these terrible crimes, learning lessons from them, and also deter people. yes, you are right i can imagine the families will be very unhappy and understandably so. i am sure that is what was in the minds of those making the arguments and the judge making the arguments and the judge making the arguments and the judge making the decision. making the arguments and the 'udge making the decision.* let's cross to our correspondence who is outside the court. as we edge closer to the sentencing, tell us what is happening inside the court.

we are expecting the sentencing to get under way soon. the two in the dark will find out how long they will serve as a minimal sentence. both teenagers will be given life sentences but then they will find out the minimal term they will have to spend in prison before the are eligible to be considered for parole. this morning, we heard from the prosecution and the defence in terms of what they thought were mitigating factors for the defence and aggravating factors as far as the prosecution is concerned in terms of working out what sentence should be handed down. cases of these magnitude are relatively rare. the prosecution highlighted factors that they thought were aggravating factors in this case. they pointed out to the premeditated nature of this attack, this was a planned

attack. she was stabbed 20 times with a knife. some of those attacks using severe levels of force. and also the transfer the police did not treat the merger as a hate crime but there were messages that went between the two murderers. all of those factors, the prosecution say should we on the judge when it comes to deciding how long the sentence should be. he acknowledged the ferocity of the attack was an aggravating factor and there was a significant degree of premeditation in the attack but he also highlighted that scarlett jenkinson was only 15 when she

carried out the attack and she was at the lower and of the range and she had suffered episodes of anxiety, an eating disorder and she had a personality disorder that developed over time. we heard from the richard little casey and he said that his argument was that this was something that was driven by jenkinson and radcliffe was really being orchestrated in this matter and his motive was to assist jenkinson because he wanted to please her. he said that radcliffe had started the attack butjenkinson had started the attack butjenkinson had taken over because he did not want to do it. essentially being said that he was being led in this murder. we have also heard moving statements from brianna's family who have been in court all morning. they

have been in court all morning. they have told about the impact this has had on them. brianna's father spoke and he said she had been deprived of the life she wanted. no amount of time in prison will be enough for these monsters. brianna's mother said i have neverfelt so much grief and i would never wish it on anyone else. no parent should ever have to bury her child. else. no parent should ever have to bury her child-— bury her child. thank you. we have been hearing _ bury her child. thank you. we have been hearing from _ bury her child. thank you. we have been hearing from the _ bury her child. thank you. we have been hearing from the family. - bury her child. thank you. we have j been hearing from the family. they have been reading out there victim impact statement. it has been really emotional in court. the family of brianna ghey sat in the court and sat across from the

teenagers who killed brianna ghey. the red statements or were read out on their behalf in court and you got the sense of the devastating impact that the death had had on them. brianna ghey�*s mother said no person should have to bury their own doctor. i have neverfelt so much grief and i would never wish it on anyone else. everything is so quiet with brianna gan. she said there is only silence at home. absolutely devastating for the family. we heard from our correspondent _ devastating for the family. we heard from our correspondent in _ devastating for the family. we heard from our correspondent in sight. - devastating for the family. we heard from our correspondent in sight. i i from our correspondent in sight. i wasjust reading on from our correspondent in sight. i was just reading on the from our correspondent in sight. i wasjust reading on the bbc was just reading on the bbc news life page that you can't go to if you want to get the latest from our correspondence. judy morrison said the court is packed, not only from

brianna's family, but also from the two murderers, the child murderers they are now and also very emotional, as we are hearing, all of this, but i think people need to remember that so many people have been affected by this, not only by what has happened, but also the naming of these young victims and this happened in broad daylight on a local, leafy english community. yes. local, leafy english community. yes, that is great- — local, leafy english community. yes, that is great. it _ local, leafy english community. yes, that is great. it is _ local, leafy english community. yes, that is great. it is worth _ local, leafy english community. ya: that is great. it is worth bearing in mind that thejudge had to balance the decision of naming these individuals over the impact that would have. that is notjust on jenkinson and radcliffe, on their potential rehabilitation, if they ever get released from prison, or the impact of their names being

known in terms of threats to them, but also the impact on the families of the families who have done nothing wrong. jenkinson's family have already received death threats as a result of her name being out there on social media, even though there on social media, even though there was a ban of it being mentioned in the media. thejudge had to consider that. the impact of this case has run really deep. i think it is safe to say this is one of the darkest days that warrington has ever faced. of the darkest days that warrington has everfaced. it of the darkest days that warrington has ever faced. it was a shocking crime. we are talking about two children who murdered another child. someone who thought they had befriended them. they were led to be murdered with a knife. it is a crime that shocked notjust murdered with a knife. it is a crime that shocked not just this country, but all around the world, we saw vigils in the aftermath of brianna

ghey�*s death. the coverage we are seeing today reflects the gravity of the crime. ii seeing today reflects the gravity of the crime. ., ., ~' seeing today reflects the gravity of the crime. ., the crime. if we look at the level of coverage _ the crime. if we look at the level of coverage we _ the crime. if we look at the level of coverage we are _ the crime. if we look at the level of coverage we are giving - the crime. if we look at the level of coverage we are giving it i the crime. if we look at the level of coverage we are giving it but i of coverage we are giving it but also the amount of information the police are releasing to the media. when you look at the likes of cctv images that we have been given, moving footage before and just after the attack, dash cam footage and then on top of that we are going to have the sentencing televised. in your opinion, why are we doing this? why are the media focusing on this and why have the courts open up to show what is happening and exactly what the judges are saying? i think what the 'udges are saying? i think there what the judges are saying? i think there are two _ what the judges are saying? i think there are two things _ what the judges are saying? i think there are two things here. - what the judges are saying? i think there are two things here. a i what the judges are saying? i think. there are two things here. a number of things. you talked about the amount of material that has been released, that is in part of the

nature of modern technology and the world we live in today. a lot of what you see is cctv footage from inside the bus our door bell footage, video doorbell inside the bus our door bell footage, video door bell footage that often captures crimes, or police body cam footage. these are things that did not exist if you go back a few years. they are useful for the police to track the movements of people, but also it is useful to the media in terms of being able to show the sequence of events. they are released by the police because after they are shown in court, if that material has been shown in court, it will be released to the media as a matter of course. in terms of the televising of the statements of the judge, it is to open up the court process, to try and demystify it somewhat. any member of the public could have gone

in and sat in on the brianna ghey trial but there has been a ban in place for a century on cameras in court. we are now allowed to televise from certain courts sentencing. we will only see a single camera onjudge mrsjustice yip. we will not see shots of the merger is in the dock or the family are wider courtroom. it will focus on thejudge and are wider courtroom. it will focus on the judge and when she is going to speak we will hear hurtful comments and then the camera will off. that is all we are allowed to show at the moment. —— we will hear the comments. show at the moment. -- we will hear the comments-— show at the moment. -- we will hear the comments. when we cross live to the comments. when we cross live to the court we — the comments. when we cross live to the court we will _ the comments. when we cross live to the court we willjust _ the comments. when we cross live to the court we willjust be _ the comments. when we cross live to the court we willjust be seeing i the comments. when we cross live to the court we willjust be seeing the i the court we willjust be seeing the judge and the remarks. let's return to the fact that the identification of these teenage murderers, scarlet

jenkinson and ellie radcliffe, the the lawyers did argued not to release their names. some might be sitting here thinking, no, we should know exactly who they are. there is a counter argument, isn't there? yes, that is great. the justice came down on the site of the argument that you made, there is a public interest in knowing the nature of what she describes as the extraordinary crime they committed. thejudge also had extraordinary crime they committed. the judge also had to weigh up, extraordinary crime they committed. thejudge also had to weigh up, and the argument was made, about what the argument was made, about what the potential impact this would have on jenkinson the potential impact this would have onjenkinson and radcliffe in the long term. with this impact on their ability to be rehabilitated? if they are released from court, will they have to be given new identities because their faces and names are

known? they will be forever associated with this crime. they willjoin associated with this crime. they will join a associated with this crime. they willjoin a small list of child killers whose names have been released into the public. if you think ofjon venables and robert thompson, there was names no longer exist, in fact. those people were given new identities from their release from prison. jon venables does not exist asjon venables. those people have to adapt and be able to live under an assumed identity. it is possible that if these two ever get released label famous mac face —— they will face similar problems, people will find out their identities. that is an extra stress that will be placed on them if they are ever released from prison. there is also the risk when they go to prison. they are under they go to prison. they are under the age of 18 but went the other 18 they will go to an adult prison.

faces and names are well known and what potential ramifications could that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them? i that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them?- that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a number- rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a number of. been speaking to a number of different gas here on bbc news and some of them are already calling for a review on this, for the council to review the facts, who the children were known to, what might have been missed. have you heard anything yet? it might be too early to say about whether there is a review into their are any learnings into this? mr; are any learnings into this? ij�*i understanding are any learnings into this? ii understanding is are any learnings into this? m1 understanding is warrington safeguarding board is going to have a review into this, to see if there are any lessons to be learnt from it. we do not know what, if anything, of these two are known to the authorities ahead of the merger of brianna ghey and all of that is

the sort of detail that is likely to be scrutinised. i’m the sort of detail that is likely to be scrutinised.— be scrutinised. i'm 'ust another thou~ht. be scrutinised. i'm 'ust another thought. i h be scrutinised. i'm 'ust another thought. i am _ be scrutinised. i'm 'ust another thought. i am just i be scrutinised. i'm just another thought. i am just on _ be scrutinised. i'm just another thought. i am just on the i be scrutinised. i'm just another thought. i am just on the bbc. be scrutinised. i'm just another- thought. i am just on the bbc news live page, where we have different correspondence, some inside the court keeping you updated on what is happening there and also some analysis from our home and legal correspondent really talking about why we so rarely hear about these cases, especially when it comes to children, and that, i would say, is because they are usually shrouded in secrecy and they are done in the family courts and we are not allowed to name people. this is a highly unusual case, isn't it?— to name people. this is a highly unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that— unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that i _ unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that i could _ unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that i could tell _ unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that i could tell you i unusual case, isn't it? yes, ithink the fact that i could tell you the i the fact that i could tell you the names of robert thompson and jon venables, i could tell you the name of a 15—year—old merger, the fact

these names stick in the public consciousness, partly because the horrible nature of the crime, but partly because it is so rare, thankfully. because those things are so rear that means they capture the imagination when it does happen. it is a crime of a particular level of horror to the public. thankfully, these things are rare. a child appearing in an adult court would be anonymous, normally, the media in this case applied to the court for that order to be lifted and was granted by the judge. that order to be lifted and was granted by thejudge. normally, if we were reporting such cases we would not be able to reveal any identity, orany would not be able to reveal any identity, or any details, for example what school they went two or anything else that might narrow it

down and be able to identify the individuals. that makes the discussion of the case quite difficult. d0 discussion of the case quite difficult. , ._ , discussion of the case quite difficult. , , ., ., difficult. do stay with us. you are watchint difficult. do stay with us. you are watching bbc _ difficult. do stay with us. you are watching bbc news. _ difficult. do stay with us. you are watching bbc news. we - difficult. do stay with us. you are watching bbc news. we are i difficult. do stay with us. you are i watching bbc news. we are bringing you ruling coverage on that breaking news coming out of manchester crown court as we expect the sentencing of the two teenage murderers of 16—year—old brianna ghey. they have been identified as scarletjenkinson and eddie ratcliffe. they stabbed brianna to death with a hunting knife back in february 2023. almost a week to the day. just to bring our viewers up—to—date, inside court, this afternoon lawyers have been putting forward mitigating

circumstances ahead of this sentencing that we are expecting. just talk us through some of those legal arguments that we have been hearing. legal arguments that we have been hearint. , ., legal arguments that we have been hearint. . ., ., hearing. yes, we heard from the prosecution _ hearing. yes, we heard from the prosecution arguing _ hearing. yes, we heard from the prosecution arguing for- hearing. yes, we heard from the prosecution arguing for factors l hearing. yes, we heard from the i prosecution arguing for factors that they think were aggravating factors in this case. they talked about things like the transfer of text messages that were exchanged between the two in this case. they talked about the sheer level of violence that was inflicted on brianna ghey as part of the case and the premeditated nature and the two of them are discussed in advance how they would carry this out. we then heard the mitigation of defence. the lawyer effectively argued that he was being orchestrated byjenkinson and jenkinson was really the driving force behind this merger. he said

ratcliffe had started the motor but thenjenkinson had taken over and carried on stabbing her and did not want to be part of it but there was because ofjenkinson. jenkinson's lawyer effectively conceded a lot of the points of the violent nature of the points of the violent nature of the attack and the horror that had caused but said she had been diagnosed with a personality disorder and that she had other issues as well. clearly, the sheer nature and harder of the attack and the fact that has been conceded by the fact that has been conceded by the defence lawyers is going to weigh heavily on the judge when deciding the sentence. we are starting to see those cameras in court turn on. they are not fully on yet but we are keeping an eye on that and those cameras will of course show the judge sat in court as well delivering sentencing to

scarlettjenkinson and eddie ratcliffe, those 216—year—olds that were found guilty of murder last year, the murder of brianna ghey. we are following proceedings and bringing you live rolling coverage and we will bring you that sentencing as soon as it happens. let's go to outside manchester crown court. it's a case that has not only shocked the country, it's made headlines abroad and also it happened in a very small area and a lot of the cctv we are being shown is in a small community where these two carried out that horrific murder in broad daylight, in a park. you have been talking about how dark the day is for waddington and the area

outside waddington