said, i want to see if it will and said, i want to see if it will scream — and said, i want to see if it will scream like _ and said, i want to see if it will scream like a man or a girl. after the failed — scream like a man or a girl. after the failed attempt and after scarlett expressing brianna suffering, you said, really all i wanted — suffering, you said, really all i wanted was to see what size it had. because _ wanted was to see what size it had. because scarlett is an unreliable interest— because scarlett is an unreliable interest i— because scarlett is an unreliable interest i will not use her evidence that you _ interest i will not use her evidence that you had a problem with gay or transgender people, or will i dwell on the _ transgender people, or will i dwell on the unpleasant messages. but in your messages about brianna, you displayed — your messages about brianna, you displayed hostility towards her based — displayed hostility towards her based on her transgender identity. your explanation is you were just copying _ your explanation is you were just copying language used by friends, including — copying language used by friends, including scarlett, to fit in. throughout the messaging, scarlett

almost _ throughout the messaging, scarlett almost always referred to brianna as almost always referred to brianna as a carct— almost always referred to brianna as a carol ahd _ almost always referred to brianna as a carol and used the pronouns she and her— a carol and used the pronouns she and her comments you were not following — and her comments you were not following scarlett lead. it may be that you — following scarlett lead. it may be that you picked up some of the language. after considering all the evidence, — language. after considering all the evidence, i am satisfied that you are quite — evidence, i am satisfied that you are quite capable of holding your own views. i have seen a great deal of expert— own views. i have seen a great deal of expert evidence of you. all the evidence — of expert evidence of you. all the evidence i— of expert evidence of you. all the evidence i will upload with all the materiat— evidence i will upload with all the material i — evidence i will upload with all the material i have considered. at an earlier— material i have considered. at an earlier stage in the proceedings, i had the _ earlier stage in the proceedings, i had the advantage of hearing evidence from a doctor, the psychiatrist at your unit and a psychologist. i have also carefully considered written evidence of another— considered written evidence of another doctor. i have played close attention— another doctor. i have played close attention to your presentation during — attention to your presentation during the trial. you are help to

give _ during the trial. you are help to give evidence in an unusual way, typing _ give evidence in an unusual way, typing your— give evidence in an unusual way, typing your answers, because it was agreed _ typing your answers, because it was agreed you — typing your answers, because it was agreed you are selectively mute, not try choice~ _ agreed you are selectively mute, not by choice. you coped well with giving — by choice. you coped well with giving evidence and were able to get across _ giving evidence and were able to get across what you wanted to, including under _ across what you wanted to, including under cross _ across what you wanted to, including under cross examination. since you have _ under cross examination. since you have treen— under cross examination. since you have been in— under cross examination. since you have been in custody, you have been diagnosed _ have been in custody, you have been diagnosed as having an autistic spectrum — diagnosed as having an autistic spectrum disorder, at a mild end of the spectrum. you should signs of autism _ the spectrum. you should signs of autism from a young age but were able to— autism from a young age but were able to attend mainstream schools where _ able to attend mainstream schools where you — able to attend mainstream schools where you did well and were not considered vulnerable there. you had some _ considered vulnerable there. you had some friends, you had strengths and weaknesses, you like to be seen as intelligent. — weaknesses, you like to be seen as intelligent, had a real interest in science, — intelligent, had a real interest in science, but you were socially awkward _ science, but you were socially awkward. your mutism is a reaction to the _ awkward. your mutism is a reaction to the situation in and the severe anxiety— to the situation in and the severe anxiety that has followed. at the time _ anxiety that has followed. at the time of— anxiety that has followed. at the

time of the killing, you are living at home — time of the killing, you are living at home and well integrated at schoot~ — at home and well integrated at school. looking at all the evidence, the expert — school. looking at all the evidence, the expert reports at trial, i am satisfied — the expert reports at trial, i am satisfied your diagnosis does not explain _ satisfied your diagnosis does not explain the way you refer to brianna. _ explain the way you refer to brianna, although it does have some impact _ brianna, although it does have some impact on _ brianna, although it does have some impact on sentencing. using the table _ impact on sentencing. using the table and — impact on sentencing. using the table and schedule 21 for young offenders, the starting point for those _ offenders, the starting point for those age 15 or 16 at the date of offence — those age 15 or 16 at the date of offence is — those age 15 or 16 at the date of offence is 20 years if the case fatts _ offence is 20 years if the case falls into _ offence is 20 years if the case falls into the category at which the adult _ falls into the category at which the adult category is 30 years. it is 17, if— adult category is 30 years. it is 17, if the — adult category is 30 years. it is 17, if the adult would be 25. it is agreed — 17, if the adult would be 25. it is agreed that everyone there are two categories — agreed that everyone there are two categories to consider. paragraph three _ categories to consider. paragraph three of— categories to consider. paragraph three of the schedule explains the case witt— three of the schedule explains the case will fall in the higher category if the seriousness of the offence _ category if the seriousness of the offence is — category if the seriousness of the offence is particularly high. it gives— offence is particularly high. it gives examples of cases that would normally _ gives examples of cases that would normally be included in that

category. it does not say they are the only— category. it does not say they are the only examples of offences of particularly high seriousness. this is a good — particularly high seriousness. this is a good guide tojudges. two examples _ is a good guide tojudges. two examples are relevant here. they are a merger— examples are relevant here. they are a merger involving sadistic conduct and a _ a merger involving sadistic conduct and a murder that is aggravated by hostility— and a murder that is aggravated by hostility related to transgender identity — hostility related to transgender identity. if i do not treat you as following — identity. if i do not treat you as following in paragraph three, then the 17 _ following in paragraph three, then the 17 years starting point applies because _ the 17 years starting point applies because it — the 17 years starting point applies because it involved a knife been taken _ because it involved a knife been taken to— because it involved a knife been taken to the scene. that was part of a joint _ taken to the scene. that was part of a joint ptan, — taken to the scene. that was part of ajoint plan, so taken to the scene. that was part of a joint plan, so it applies to scartett _ a joint plan, so it applies to scarlett as it does to eddie. the starting — scarlett as it does to eddie. the starting point i use is that, not the end — starting point i use is that, not the end point. i have to weigh up all the _ the end point. i have to weigh up all the things that make your offending worse, what we call aggravating factors, and all those that count in your favour, mitigating factors. sadistic motives are not— mitigating factors. sadistic motives are not themselves enough to bring

the case _ are not themselves enough to bring the case within paragraph three. the test statistic conduct. equally, the fact there — test statistic conduct. equally, the fact there are elements of transphobia does not lead to the higher— transphobia does not lead to the higher starting point. here it is agreed — higher starting point. here it is agreed the question is the murderer was in _ agreed the question is the murderer was in part— agreed the question is the murderer was in part motivated by hostility towards — was in part motivated by hostility towards brianna because she was transgender. my conclusions on these issues _ transgender. my conclusions on these issues are _ transgender. my conclusions on these issues are important but they are not decisive because in the end, i am reguired — not decisive because in the end, i am required to decide whether the offence _ am required to decide whether the offence is — am required to decide whether the offence is one of particularly high seriousness and then to put everything else into the balance to reach _ everything else into the balance to reach the — everything else into the balance to reach the end point, which is what you witt— reach the end point, which is what you will be — reach the end point, which is what you will be most interested in. scarlett, — you will be most interested in. scarlett, i_ you will be most interested in. scarlett, i have concluded that the primary— scarlett, i have concluded that the primary motivation was your deep desire _ primary motivation was your deep desire to — primary motivation was your deep desire to kill. the messages reveal your fantasies and show your sadistic— your fantasies and show your sadistic motives. the merger was exceptionally brittle. your actions

after _ exceptionally brittle. your actions after the — exceptionally brittle. your actions after the event and what you told the doctor— after the event and what you told the doctor can farm you enjoyed the killing _ the doctor can farm you enjoyed the killing. taking all that evidence together, this was statistic conduct~ _ together, this was statistic conduct. eddie, although your motives— conduct. eddie, although your motives may not have been the same, you knew _ motives may not have been the same, you knew what scarlett wanted to do and why _ you knew what scarlett wanted to do and why. we understood her desire to see brianna _ and why. we understood her desire to see brianna suffer. you actively participated in this brutal murder, knowing _ participated in this brutal murder, knowing the sadistic motives behind it. knowing the sadistic motives behind it you _ knowing the sadistic motives behind it. you cannot avoid the consequences saying he did not have the same _ consequences saying he did not have the same desires. you, eddie, were motivated _ the same desires. you, eddie, were motivated in— the same desires. you, eddie, were motivated in part by hostility towards _ motivated in part by hostility towards brianna because she was transgender. you dehumanised brianna by referring _ transgender. you dehumanised brianna by referring to her as it and you messages — by referring to her as it and you messages saying he wanted to see whether— messages saying he wanted to see whether she would scream like a man

or a coral— whether she would scream like a man or a coral and — whether she would scream like a man or a coral and wanting to see what size she _ or a coral and wanting to see what size she had, it shows your own interest— size she had, it shows your own interest to _ size she had, it shows your own interest to killing brianna a link to her— interest to killing brianna a link to her your —— your hostility towards _ to her your —— your hostility towards her. i cannot go so far as towards her. i cannot go so far as to say— towards her. i cannot go so far as to say she — towards her. i cannot go so far as to say she used transphobic attitudes to get you involved. i therefore — attitudes to get you involved. i therefore find that you both took part in _ therefore find that you both took part in a — therefore find that you both took part in a planned murder that was sadistic— part in a planned murder that was sadistic in— part in a planned murder that was sadistic in nature. in any event, however— sadistic in nature. in any event, however it— sadistic in nature. in any event, however it is _ sadistic in nature. in any event, however it is analysed, i think it is plain— however it is analysed, i think it is plain this _ however it is analysed, i think it is plain this was a murder of particularly high seriousness and the part— particularly high seriousness and the part each of you played leads to the part each of you played leads to

the starting point of 25 years. i would — the starting point of 25 years. i would have treated the sadistic motives— would have treated the sadistic motives and transphobic comments as aggravating features at the next stage _ aggravating features at the next stage. as it is, i will be careful not to— stage. as it is, i will be careful not to double current things that have _ not to double current things that have already gone into the starting point _ have already gone into the starting point. there are many serious features— point. there are many serious features in— point. there are many serious features in this case but the overlap _ features in this case but the overlap and it would be wrong to treat _ overlap and it would be wrong to treat each — overlap and it would be wrong to treat each one separately uplifting the minimum term. i also keep firmly in mind— the minimum term. i also keep firmly in mind that— the minimum term. i also keep firmly in mind that you are very young and you must— in mind that you are very young and you must be — in mind that you are very young and you must be sentenced with the hope, if not the _ you must be sentenced with the hope, if not the immediate expectation, that you _ if not the immediate expectation, that you can one day be rehabilitated, however cruel that may seem to those who have lost a loved _ may seem to those who have lost a loved one — may seem to those who have lost a loved one. looking at aggravating factors, _ loved one. looking at aggravating factors, it — loved one. looking at aggravating factors, it involved a significant amount— factors, it involved a significant amount of— factors, it involved a significant amount of planning and planned to kill other— amount of planning and planned to kill other people. planning started

with you. — kill other people. planning started with you, scarlett, and it was you who brought eddie n. eddie, you joined _ who brought eddie n. eddie, you joined in — who brought eddie n. eddie, you joined in with the plan. i do bear in mind— joined in with the plan. i do bear in mind that apart from the full subject— in mind that apart from the full subject matter, the plans were quite chitdish~ _ subject matter, the plans were quite childish. the notebooks were left where _ childish. the notebooks were left where they could easily be found. the extent — where they could easily be found. the extent of the planning remains a significant _ the extent of the planning remains a significant aggravating factor for each of— significant aggravating factor for each of you. in your case, scarlett, i each of you. in your case, scarlett, i have _ each of you. in your case, scarlett, i have to _ each of you. in your case, scarlett, i have to bear — each of you. in your case, scarlett, i have to bear in mind that you tried _ i have to bear in mind that you tried to — i have to bear in mind that you tried to kitt— i have to bear in mind that you tried to kill brianna by poisoning her. tried to kill brianna by poisoning her that — tried to kill brianna by poisoning her. that does not apply to you, eddie. _ her. that does not apply to you, eddie. you — her. that does not apply to you, eddie, you did encourage further attempts, — eddie, you did encourage further attempts, although they did not happen — attempts, although they did not happen. both of you were involved in the failed _ happen. both of you were involved in the failed attempt to kill brianna on the _ the failed attempt to kill brianna on the 20th ofjanuary and persisted when _ on the 20th ofjanuary and persisted when that— on the 20th ofjanuary and persisted when that did not happen. brianna was vulnerable, as described by her family. _ was vulnerable, as described by her family, even if not strictly treated as vulnerable in the statutory sense — as vulnerable in the statutory

sense. you picked brianna because you both _ sense. you picked brianna because you both thought she would be an easy target. in doing so you, scarlett, _ easy target. in doing so you, scarlett, abused her trust. she thought— scarlett, abused her trust. she thought you were her friend. you are encouraged _ thought you were her friend. you are encouraged to her not to be anxious and guided — encouraged to her not to be anxious and guided her through getting the bus. eddie, you knew scarlett was playing _ bus. eddie, you knew scarlett was playing on— bus. eddie, you knew scarlett was playing on brianna in this way and so it aggravates your offending, too. although, perhaps to a lesser degree _ too. although, perhaps to a lesser degree than scarlett. i recognise these _ degree than scarlett. i recognise these features and i avoid double counting — these features and i avoid double counting but they are still matters to put _ counting but they are still matters to put in _ counting but they are still matters to put in the balance. i have taken account— to put in the balance. i have taken account of— to put in the balance. i have taken account of the brutality of the killing — account of the brutality of the killing and the use of a knife when assessing — killing and the use of a knife when assessing the starting point. i have also built— assessing the starting point. i have also built in— assessing the starting point. i have also built in the sadistic motive and transphobic, all of these features— and transphobic, all of these features are very important, but i have _ features are very important, but i have explained how they are linked so the _ have explained how they are linked so the do _ have explained how they are linked so the do not each cause a separate

number, _ so the do not each cause a separate number, but — so the do not each cause a separate number, but they have to be recognised in balancing the aggravating and mitigating features. taken _ aggravating and mitigating features. taken together, they illustrate how serious _ taken together, they illustrate how serious this offence was, even in the context— serious this offence was, even in the context of other murders falling into the _ the context of other murders falling into the category i have identified. the attempt to conceal evidence were not sophisticated and do not have any significant impact. brianna's body— any significant impact. brianna's body was — any significant impact. brianna's body was not concealed, probably because _ body was not concealed, probably because you were disturbed. i will not speculate is what would have happened if you had not been. it is an aggravating feature that you committed the murder in broad daylight. — committed the murder in broad daylight, in a park and there were other— daylight, in a park and there were other people around. including a family— other people around. including a family playing hide and seek and lots family playing hide and seek and tots of— family playing hide and seek and lots of dog walkers. it was always tikety— lots of dog walkers. it was always likely that — lots of dog walkers. it was always likely that other people would come upon the _ likely that other people would come upon the scene and suffer trauma, as happened _ upon the scene and suffer trauma, as happened in— upon the scene and suffer trauma, as happened. in considering mitigation, i happened. in considering mitigation, i have _ happened. in considering mitigation, i have considered everything i have

read about— i have considered everything i have read about you, including the presentence reports. i bear in mind your previous good character, although— your previous good character, although this must be viewed in the context— although this must be viewed in the context of— although this must be viewed in the context of very serious offending and the — context of very serious offending and the contents of the messages. within— and the contents of the messages. within the — and the contents of the messages. within the 15 to 16 age range, there will be _ within the 15 to 16 age range, there will be different levels of maturity. i must look at your maturity— maturity. i must look at your maturity whilst i was looking at any mentat _ maturity whilst i was looking at any mental or— maturity whilst i was looking at any mental or developmental disorders that may— mental or developmental disorders that may have lowered your culpability. looking at the various reports _ culpability. looking at the various reports on — culpability. looking at the various reports on you. scarlett, the assessment of your intellectual ability— assessment of your intellectual ability fits with other evidence that you — ability fits with other evidence that you were not mature or clever. you have _ that you were not mature or clever. you have some fun abilities. since you were — you have some fun abilities. since you were about 14, you have had problems— you were about 14, you have had problems with your mood, anxiety, self harming and anorexia. report prepared — self harming and anorexia. report prepared before the trial suggest you had — prepared before the trial suggest you had traits of autism and adhd. the doctor—

you had traits of autism and adhd. the doctor no longer thinks that applies — the doctor no longer thinks that applies. you have changed your account— applies. you have changed your account since the trial. you have admitted — account since the trial. you have admitted taking part in the murder. you have _ admitted taking part in the murder. you have said things about what you did and _ you have said things about what you did and how— you have said things about what you did and how you felt, both to doctor church _ did and how you felt, both to doctor church and _ did and how you felt, both to doctor church and others, including the writer— church and others, including the writer of— church and others, including the writer of the presentence report. you have — writer of the presentence report. you have lied so many times scarlett that it _ you have lied so many times scarlett that it is _ you have lied so many times scarlett that it is impossible to know what is true _ that it is impossible to know what is true and — that it is impossible to know what is true and what is not. there are worrying — is true and what is not. there are worrying things in the report, you have _ worrying things in the report, you have expressed desire to kill again. if have expressed desire to kill again. if these _ have expressed desire to kill again. if these thoughts continue, you will not be _ if these thoughts continue, you will not be released. the latest report will need — not be released. the latest report will need to be detained upon your file. contains important information that the _ file. contains important information that the parole board would need to consider _ that the parole board would need to consider. you have shown no remorse. having _ consider. you have shown no remorse. having now _ consider. you have shown no remorse. having now assessed you several times, _ having now assessed you several times, doctor church has diagnosed

that you _ times, doctor church has diagnosed that you have a severe form of conduct — that you have a severe form of conduct social disorder, one of the features— conduct social disorder, one of the features of— conduct social disorder, one of the features of which is having no empathy _ features of which is having no empathy. your lack of empathy does provide _ empathy. your lack of empathy does provide some explanation to how you could _ provide some explanation to how you could commit such a dreadful murder, but in _ could commit such a dreadful murder, but in my— could commit such a dreadful murder, but in my view it does not significantly lower your culpability. there is no suggestion you did _ culpability. there is no suggestion you did not know that what you were doing _ you did not know that what you were doing was _ you did not know that what you were doing was wrong are you were unable to control— doing was wrong are you were unable to control your actions. you were able _ to control your actions. you were able to— to control your actions. you were able to plan— to control your actions. you were able to plan in an organised way and had futi— able to plan in an organised way and had full awareness that it was criminal— had full awareness that it was criminal behaviour. in short, your diagnosed — criminal behaviour. in short, your diagnosed disorder did not drive your actions, although it meant he did not— your actions, although it meant he did not have the mental break that most _ did not have the mental break that most people have to stop them wanting — most people have to stop them wanting to harm others because that feels wrong. it may not have felt wrong _ feels wrong. it may not have felt wrong but — feels wrong. it may not have felt wrong but there is no doubt that you knew _ wrong but there is no doubt that you knew it _ wrong but there is no doubt that you knew it was — wrong but there is no doubt that you knew it was wrong to act as you did, and you _ knew it was wrong to act as you did, and you chose to do so anyway. i

take _ and you chose to do so anyway. i take account of the diagnosis. in my view, _ take account of the diagnosis. in my view, it— take account of the diagnosis. in my view, it offers limited mitigation. there _ view, it offers limited mitigation. there are — view, it offers limited mitigation. there are no other relevant diagnoses in your case but there are some _ diagnoses in your case but there are some concerns about your mental health— some concerns about your mental health and — some concerns about your mental health and how you will respond after _ health and how you will respond after today. those responsible for your care — after today. those responsible for your care will no doubt note. scarlett, _ your care will no doubt note. scarlett, it is clear that if you are ever _ scarlett, it is clear that if you are ever to _ scarlett, it is clear that if you are ever to be released, a huge amount— are ever to be released, a huge amount of— are ever to be released, a huge amount of work will need to be done with you _ amount of work will need to be done with you first. but the hope remains that this _ with you first. but the hope remains that this can — with you first. but the hope remains that this can happen and you should work hard _ that this can happen and you should work hard on your rehabilitation. eddie. _ work hard on your rehabilitation. eddie. you — work hard on your rehabilitation. eddie, you have been described as extremely— eddie, you have been described as extremely vulnerable. there are areas _ extremely vulnerable. there are areas in — extremely vulnerable. there are areas in which you are functioning as described as that of a much younger— as described as that of a much younger child, your social skills are not— younger child, your social skills are not as — younger child, your social skills are not as developed as most of your people _ are not as developed as most of your people age — are not as developed as most of your people age. i have looked carefully at the _ people age. i have looked carefully at the limitations outlined by the doctor— at the limitations outlined by the doctor but it is hard to view these

limitations — doctor but it is hard to view these limitations are significantly lowering your culpability for brianna's majour. i should also say that my— brianna's majour. i should also say that my analysis of your offending differs _ that my analysis of your offending differs in — that my analysis of your offending differs in important respects to the presentencing report. you have not given— presentencing report. you have not given a _ presentencing report. you have not given a truthful account. i have found _ given a truthful account. i have found the — given a truthful account. i have found the report helpful, reading it in the _ found the report helpful, reading it in the context of my factual findings _ in the context of my factual findings. i bear in mind that it is difficult — findings. i bear in mind that it is difficult for _ findings. i bear in mind that it is difficult for a proper assessment to be made _ difficult for a proper assessment to be made of the impact of your asd as you continue to deny what you did. i am confident from all hey have seen that you _ am confident from all hey have seen that you knew very well that what you were — that you knew very well that what you were doing was terribly wrong and that— you were doing was terribly wrong and that you were capable of saying no to _ and that you were capable of saying no to scarlett. i do recognise that

some _ no to scarlett. i do recognise that some adjustment is required in batancing — some adjustment is required in balancing against the aggravating factors— balancing against the aggravating factors to reflect that you are less mature _ factors to reflect that you are less mature than many others would be in the 15_ mature than many others would be in the 15 to— mature than many others would be in the 15 to 16 _ mature than many others would be in the 15 to 16 age category and your thinking _ the 15 to 16 age category and your thinking skills i last developed in certain— thinking skills i last developed in certain areas. more generally, your asd, _ certain areas. more generally, your asd, severe — certain areas. more generally, your asd, severe anxiety and selective mutism _ asd, severe anxiety and selective mutism has made your experience in custody— mutism has made your experience in custody more difficult. despite this, _ custody more difficult. despite this, the — custody more difficult. despite this, the doctor's latest report shows— this, the doctor's latest report shows reasonable progress. you have managed _ shows reasonable progress. you have managed to— shows reasonable progress. you have managed to pass your gcses whilst in custody— managed to pass your gcses whilst in custody and have begun studying a-tevets — custody and have begun studying a—levels and you have agreed to start— a—levels and you have agreed to start speech and language therapy. 0ther— start speech and language therapy. other what you have showed no remorse — other what you have showed no remorse at trial and indeed today, the presentence report shows some insight _ the presentence report shows some insight into brianna's family feelings. you told the report i

would — feelings. you told the report i would not say because there is nothing — would not say because there is nothing i— would not say because there is nothing i could say that would help them _ nothing i could say that would help them with— nothing i could say that would help them with their situation and would cause _ them with their situation and would cause more — them with their situation and would cause more pain. this is, in fact, quite _ cause more pain. this is, in fact, quite immature statement and one that may— quite immature statement and one that may be built upon. i also find that may be built upon. i also find that it _ that may be built upon. i also find that it is _ that may be built upon. i also find that it is consistent with my view that it is consistent with my view that despite the limitations identified in the evidence, you are capable _ identified in the evidence, you are capable of— identified in the evidence, you are capable of thinking about the consequences of your actions. taking the evidence as a whole, i find the impact _ the evidence as a whole, i find the impact of— the evidence as a whole, i find the impact of your asd on your culpability is limited. i do not doubt — culpability is limited. i do not doubt transferring to prison when you are _ doubt transferring to prison when you are an— doubt transferring to prison when you are an adult will be difficult. prison _ you are an adult will be difficult. prison is — you are an adult will be difficult. prison is more difficult for those who are — prison is more difficult for those who are new to diverse. behaviour in custody— who are new to diverse. behaviour in custody has — who are new to diverse. behaviour in custody has been good so far and it is clear— custody has been good so far and it is clear from — custody has been good so far and it is clear from the presentence report that there _ is clear from the presentence report that there is a hope that you may one day— that there is a hope that you may one day be — that there is a hope that you may one day be rehabilitated. you must

continue _ one day be rehabilitated. you must continue to— one day be rehabilitated. you must continue to work towards that. i have _ continue to work towards that. i have avoided all the aggravating and mitigating factors that apply to each _ mitigating factors that apply to each of— mitigating factors that apply to each of you. although i have taken the same — each of you. although i have taken the same starting point, i have concluded _ the same starting point, i have concluded that the final minimum term _ concluded that the final minimum term must— concluded that the final minimum term must be different. in scarlett's is the aggravating features are significant and would have ted — features are significant and would have led to a substantial effort the starting _ have led to a substantial effort the starting point, but for the mitigation, particularly that relating to maturity and mental disorder — relating to maturity and mental disorder. they must still be an upper— disorder. they must still be an upper limit but it will be moderated. and eddie's case i find the balance to be struck between aggravating factors, which are not quite _ aggravating factors, which are not quite as— aggravating factors, which are not quite as high as in scarlett's case, and the _ quite as high as in scarlett's case, and the mitigation i have identified as such _ and the mitigation i have identified as such is — and the mitigation i have identified as such is to cancel each other out. in as such is to cancel each other out. in saying _ as such is to cancel each other out. in saying that, i have taken account of att— in saying that, i have taken account of all the _ in saying that, i have taken account of all the medical evidence and accept — of all the medical evidence and accept the diagnosis asd has some

impact, _ accept the diagnosis asd has some impact, but the extent to which it reduced _ impact, but the extent to which it reduced your culpability in the circumstances of this offending is limited _ circumstances of this offending is limited. this was undoubtably a very serious _ limited. this was undoubtably a very serious offence with multiple aggravating factors. that is the context — aggravating factors. that is the context in— aggravating factors. that is the context in which i impose a minimal terms _ context in which i impose a minimal terms which — context in which i impose a minimal terms which are lengthy for offenders of your age, i'll be significantly less than an equivalent sentence for an adult. the parote — equivalent sentence for an adult. the parole board will have to decide if and _ the parole board will have to decide if and when — the parole board will have to decide if and when either, or both of you, can be _ if and when either, or both of you, can be released. that will only happen— can be released. that will only happen if— can be released. that will only happen if you no longer pose a danger — happen if you no longer pose a danger if— happen if you no longer pose a danger. if you are released, you will remain— danger. if you are released, you will remain on licence for a life and you — will remain on licence for a life and you may be recalled to prison. i will now— and you may be recalled to prison. i will now sentence each of you. you may remain — will now sentence each of you. you may remain seated. in both cases, the relevant — may remain seated. in both cases, the relevant statutory sub charge will apply. scarlett jenkinson, the relevant statutory sub charge will apply. scarlettjenkinson, for will apply. scarlett jenkinson, for the will apply. scarlettjenkinson, for the murder of brianna ghey, you will

be detained — the murder of brianna ghey, you will be detained at his majesty's pleasure. i set the minimum term of 22 years. _ pleasure. i set the minimum term of 22 years, unless the days you have spent _ 22 years, unless the days you have spent on _ 22 years, unless the days you have spent on remand. eddie ratcliffe, for the _ spent on remand. eddie ratcliffe, for the murder of brianna ghey, you will be _ for the murder of brianna ghey, you will be detained at his majesty's pleasure. i set the minimum term of 20 years. _ pleasure. i set the minimum term of 20 years, unless the number of days you have _ 20 years, unless the number of days you have spent on remand. please take the _ you have spent on remand. please take the defendants to the cells and their legal teams will come and see them _ their legal teams will come and see them before the court to begin their sentences — them before the court to begin their sentences. ., , ., . . . sentences. hello, you are watching bbc news — sentences. hello, you are watching bbc news we _ sentences. hello, you are watching bbc news. we have _ sentences. hello, you are watching bbc news. we have been - sentences. hello, you are watching bbc news. we have been bringingl sentences. hello, you are watching i bbc news. we have been bringing you live coverage from manchester court where the two killers of brianna ghey have just been sentenced. we can go live now to our correspondent who is outside manchester court for us. tell us more about the sentences from the judge. us. tell us more about the sentences from the judge-— from the judge. yes, quite severe

sentences _ from the judge. yes, quite severe sentences. they _ from the judge. yes, quite severe sentences. they were _ from the judge. yes, quite severe sentences. they were children - from the judge. yes, quite severe i sentences. they were children when they committed the crime. both 15 years old at the time. they are both 16 years old. 20 years and 22 years for the two of them. the judge went through the reasons for the sentences. addressing jenkinson, she said the primary motivation was a desire to kill, calling the murder exceptionally brutal. the judge said you enjoyed it and it had sadistic conduct. she said to eddie ratcliffe, you knew whatjenkinson wanted to do and why. and said that both took part in a brutal and planned murder. thejudge went both took part in a brutal and planned murder. the judge went on to talk about the nature of the crime and sadistic nature and level of

brutality involved. the fact this was a crime that was carried out in broad daylight in a park on a saturday afternoon near warrington. so clearly, thejudge saturday afternoon near warrington. so clearly, the judge thought these were significant crimes that deserved a significant sentences. that is what we have seen reflected here. 20 years and 22 years. the judge thought there were more mitigating factors in ratcliffe's offence. these are minimum terms they will have to observe. after that point it will be up to the parole board if they are eligible for release. thejudge parole board if they are eligible for release. the judge did say she hoped there was a chance of rehabilitation for them. they are facing 20 years each at least in jail going forward.— jail going forward. there was a difference _ jail going forward. there was a difference in _ jail going forward. there was a difference in the _ jail going forward. there was a difference in the sentences - jail going forward. there was a difference in the sentences forj difference in the sentences for scarlettjenkinson and eddie ratcliffe. 22 years for scarlett

jenkinson and 20 years for eddie ratcliffe. do we have any more reasons as to why there was a difference in the in sentencing for two teenagers? i difference in the in sentencing for two teenagers?— difference in the in sentencing for two teenagers? i think that comes down to what _ two teenagers? i think that comes down to what they _ two teenagers? i think that comes down to what they saw _ two teenagers? i think that comes down to what they saw as - two teenagers? i think that comes i down to what they saw as motivating and mitigating factors and what was their role in it, how significant was their role in it, how much involved in the killing? the factors behind it and their mental ability and the fact that ratcliffe is diagnosed with autism, was a factor that could act in his mitigation. thejudge that both that could act in his mitigation. the judge that both committed very serious offences and she said that both of them were involved in the murder and they should face significant sentences as a result of that. we have some notes saying that neither of the defendant showed any emotion in court when the verdicts were returned. they were in the court room along with brianna ghey

family and their own families were in the court room as well. there were about 50 people in the court room as thejudgment were about 50 people in the court room as the judgment was handed down. room as the “udgment was handed down. �* ., , . , . down. before the sentences, we have also heard statements _ down. before the sentences, we have also heard statements from _ down. before the sentences, we have also heard statements from the - also heard statements from the family of brianna ghey, just explaining the consequences of this merger and how much the mess the teenager. merger and how much the mess the teena . er. . merger and how much the mess the teena . er. , , merger and how much the mess the teenaaer. , , . , merger and how much the mess the teenaaer. , , ., . ., , merger and how much the mess the teenaaer. , , . . , , teenager. yes, this has clearly been a devastating _ teenager. yes, this has clearly been a devastating time _ teenager. yes, this has clearly been a devastating time for— teenager. yes, this has clearly been a devastating time for brianna - a devastating time for brianna ghey�*s family and friends. brianna's mother said she listened at the door of her daughter's bedroom, hoping she would hear her. she talked about how no mother should have to bury their own child. it had a devastating effect on all of the family members. today has been a difficult day for them. some of the details that the justice read difficult day for them. some of the details that thejustice read out in the sentencing were quite graphic

and gruesome and which have been extremely difficult for the family to listen to. extremely difficult for the family to listen to— to listen to. what was quite interesting _ to listen to. what was quite interesting was _ to listen to. what was quite interesting was mrs - to listen to. what was quite interesting was mrs justice | to listen to. what was quite i interesting was mrs justice yip to listen to. what was quite - interesting was mrs justice yip said interesting was mrsjustice yip said the two colours had hostility towards brianna because of her transgender identity. this towards brianna because of her transgender identity.— transgender identity. this was related to _ transgender identity. this was related to some _ transgender identity. this was related to some of— transgender identity. this was related to some of the - transgender identity. this was related to some of the text i transgender identity. this was - related to some of the text messages that were seen exchange between the two. the police did consider it as a hate crime. at the time they decided it wasn't, that brianna ghey was just unfortunate, they had a kill list and suggested they were attacking any of them. there were particular transphobic comments that were made by eddie ratcliffe and text messages to scarlettjenkinson, he referred in derogatory language

to brianna ghey. that was something that the judge considered the work transphobic and eddie ratcliffe had made transphobic comments and she took that into consideration when she made the sentencing.- took that into consideration when she made the sentencing. before the sentencin: , she made the sentencing. before the sentencing. the _ she made the sentencing. before the sentencing, the identities _ she made the sentencing. before the sentencing, the identities of - she made the sentencing. before the sentencing, the identities of the - sentencing, the identities of the two teenagers who were found guilty and now sentence for the murder of brianna ghey were published and we have been watching videos and we have been watching videos and we have seen their images. what more have seen their images. what more have we been learning about scarlett jenkinson and eddie ratcliffe today? yes, throughout the court and subsequently we have had some disturbing details, really, about the case. notjust of the very nature of the attack, scarlett jenkinson told a psychiatrist that eddie ratcliffe had started stabbing and she took over and stabbed

brianna more. before the merger, scarlettjenkinson had developed a fascination with serial killers. she had been keeping notes on harold shipman, the gp killer and cannibal multiple murderer in the united states. also, she had been surfing the dark web looking for material related to killing, murder and torture. ratcliffe had also become involved in these discussions. he had gone out and bought the knife which the police believe was used in the attack. when they went to his house, the found clothing covered in brianna's blood and trainers that were bloodstained as well. both of them were clearly fuelled each other. i heard a psychologist talking ahead of sentencing today and she said what you have is a

situation of two people reinforcing each other�*s attitudes and the judge reflected that in sentencing, both had a key part to play in the murder and that is why both of them are facing significant prison sentences. thank you. live now to professor of criminology at the university of the west of england. thank you forjoining us on bbc news. what is your reaction to these sentences? 22 years in prison for scarlettjenkinson and 20 years for scarlettjenkinson and 20 years for eddie ratcliffe. i for scarlett jenkinson and 20 years for eddie ratcliffe.— for eddie ratcliffe. i must say i am not surprised _ for eddie ratcliffe. i must say i am not surprised given _ for eddie ratcliffe. i must say i am not surprised given the _ for eddie ratcliffe. i must say i am not surprised given the severity i for eddie ratcliffe. i must say i am not surprised given the severity of| not surprised given the severity of the offence and also the potential risk both of them pose. in sentencing the judge has to take in mitigating factors but they also

have to think about public protection and the consequences of the murders sol protection and the consequences of the murders so i am not shocked. but i am also not shocked from what we've heard this afternoon that scarlett's is longer than eddie's. and how sentences compare to others where we've had young people and teenagers carrying out mood is in the past? teenagers carrying out mood is in the ast? . . , teenagers carrying out mood is in the ast? , . , ,, , the past? generally speaking these alon: b the past? generally speaking these along by comparison _ the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to _ the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to others i the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to others that| along by comparison to others that you would see but the scale and nature of these offences are quite exceptional in many cases. as you've been saying, there are only a few of the cases we would really meet this criteria, the jamie bolger killing being one. ——jamie bolger. and

criteria, the jamie bolger killing being one. -- jamie bolger. and the “udue