consequences of protection and the consequences of the murders so i am not shocked. but i am also not shocked from what we've heard this afternoon that scarlett�*s is longer than eddie's. and how sentences compare to others where we've had young people and teenagers carrying out mood is in the past? teenagers carrying out mood is in the ast? , . , ,, , the past? generally speaking these alon: b the past? generally speaking these along by comparison _ the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to _ the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to others - the past? generally speaking these along by comparison to others that| along by comparison to others that you would see but the scale and nature of these offences are quite exceptional in many cases. as you've been saying, there are only a few of the cases we would really meet this criteria, the jamie bolger killing being one. ——jamie bolger. find

criteria, the jamie bolger killing being one. -- jamie bolger. and the 'udue said being one. -- jamie bolger. and the judge said that _ being one. -- jamie bolger. and the judge said that the _ being one. -- jamie bolger. and the judge said that the killers _ being one. -- jamie bolger. and the judge said that the killers will - judge said that the killers will only be released if they are no longer seen as a danger. they have been conversations as well about rehabilitation and what happens to these 216—year—olds. is there any opportunity for rehabilitation? yes there is but _ opportunity for rehabilitation? yes there is but we also opportunity for rehabilitation? 19:3 there is but we also have opportunity for rehabilitation? 193 there is but we also have to keep in mind some of the mitigating factors. talks of mental health difficulties, autism, vulnerabilities, they will play a role in whatever rehabilitation is offered. but some work will need to be done with both of them because otherwise they will be sitting injailfor 20 of them because otherwise they will be sitting in jail for 20 years and not developing and not moving towards a release. ultimately, prison is a punishment but it's also about rehabilitation and there are programmes they can go on and there is work that can be done but it's finding the right programmes and the

right level for them to engage and understand. find right level for them to engage and understand-— right level for them to engage and understand. : :, , :, :, understand. and a question about the famil of understand. and a question about the family of brianna _ understand. and a question about the family of brianna ghey _ understand. and a question about the family of brianna ghey because - family of brianna ghey because obviously there is a great national attention around this case, the newspapers will be interested in the two teenagers who have been sentenced today, is there the likelihood that may be the story of brianna ghey might be forgotten and the pain that her family has experienced could be forgotten? ida i experienced could be forgotten? no i don't think s0- _ experienced could be forgotten? no i don't think so. i _ experienced could be forgotten? in? i don't think so. i think we've experienced could be forgotten? the i don't think so. i think we've got to keepin don't think so. i think we've got to keep in mind that herfamily need help and support. we have to be careful about how we report and talk about this. my mind often goes back to the sara payne case and the wind that some aspects of the media engaged about that and that family was going through a terrible difficulty and you often see this in families of high—profile cases that

ultimately it becomes a strain on them and how they cope with it and how they recover can become damaged by the media presence of the story. so i think we need to be thinking in the foremost of our minds about her parents and about her family and how we can report and talk about this in a careful way that actually helps them heal and recover. find a careful way that actually helps them heal and recover. and what lessons do _ them heal and recover. and what lessons do you _ them heal and recover. and what lessons do you think _ them heal and recover. and what lessons do you think can - them heal and recover. and what lessons do you think can be - them heal and recover. and what| lessons do you think can be learnt from this case? i lessons do you think can be learnt from this case?— lessons do you think can be learnt from this case? i think the lessons that have been _ from this case? i think the lessons that have been learned, _ from this case? i think the lessons that have been learned, first - from this case? i think the lessons that have been learned, first and l that have been learned, first and foremost, actually how we understand and talk with our children, how we understand what's going on in their lives and how we can engage with them. because if you look at the case of eddie and scarlett they were text messages backwards and forwards, they were watching an engaging and problematic behaviour and viewing the dark web, so the questions we have to ask is actually

how could this have been prevented? how could we have supported them to either get the help they needed to stop what ultimately became a horrific incident? so while we are talking about brianna ghey we also need to think about there might be other young people out there in a similar situation worried about what they are looking at. and how we can engage in conversations with them to help prevent this happening again. and what are your thoughts about the families of scarlettjenkinson and eddie ratcliffe because the media scrutiny is going to be particularly intense around those who are related to the two murderers as well as any of their friends. what are your thoughts about that? this of their friends. what are your thoughts about that?- of their friends. what are your thoughts about that? this is the dancer thoughts about that? this is the dan . er of thoughts about that? this is the danger of publicly _ thoughts about that? this is the danger of publicly disclosing - thoughts about that? this is the danger of publicly disclosing the names of these young people. i

understand the arguments for and against it but the collateral consequences will fall on their families and friends because eddie and scarlett will be in prison, they will be under the care of the state and they will be vulnerable in prison and they will be watched. but their friends and family will have to live with the consequences of what they have done and that's going to be a real challenge. you might see a need for additional police protection, especially in the first weeks and months. so by disclosing the information they have identified who their friends and families are and the could be at risk need additional support. and the could be at risk need additionalsupport. i and the could be at risk need additional support.— and the could be at risk need additional support. i want to ask ou this additional support. i want to ask you this question _ additional support. i want to ask you this question because - additional support. i want to ask you this question because we i additional support. i want to ask| you this question because we had some analysis on the bbc website from our home and legal correspondent at the bbc. he said

child killers are rare but naming children involved in serious crimes is not actually rare. so what is particularly interesting at this particularly interesting at this particular time is the fact you have two murderers who are now involved in this. i need to stop this here, let's go to new scotland yard where we have a press conference. iam i am commanderjohn savill. good afternoon. i am i am commanderjohn savill. good afternoon. iam here i am commanderjohn savill. good afternoon. i am here to give you an update in relation to our progress following the horrific incident on clapham on wednesday evening. first of all, an update on how the victims are. the mother remains very poorly in hospital and she is sedated at the moment. we expect that those

injuries will be life changing. thankfully we've had an update from the hospital that the two young children that were with her, their injuries are not as serious as first thought and they are not likely to be life changing. they remain with mum in the care of the nhs and we of course wish them the very best recovery that we can. in terms of our manhunt we have a large team of experienced detectives leading the manhunt using all the tactics you would expect us to use. lots of officers out on the ground and we are working very closely with colleagues from transport for london, british transport police and our colleagues in northumbria police as well. last night five search warrants were executed, to an east london and three in newcastle and we have recovered some significant and important pieces of evidence which will help with our investigation.

i'd like to give you a rundown of the timeline that we know so far in relation to what happened in the movements on wednesday. we know that he left newcastle in the very early hours of wednesday morning and he travelled down south to london. at around about 6:30am he was in the tutoring area. there was a further sighting of his vehicle in about liz30pm in croydon and at about 70 m he was in the streatham area. as you know, the awful attack took place at 7:25pm in clapham and at 33 minutes past seven he boards a train at clapham south tube. we know that hpm he was at king's cross tube station and then at about 8:45pm he was

captured in tesco's on the caledonian road. he had a fairly significant facial industry —— injury. thankfully due to the great response from the public we are able to follow him and know that he got on the train at 90 m, victoria line tube heading south. we have some further images from the cctv that my colleagues will share with you shortly and we would very much like all of the public�*s help in identifying where he has travelled. if you have seen him or you know areas then i urge you please to contact our hotline which is 0207 175 2784. or of course you can phone crimestoppers. if you think you see him now, do not approach him, ring

999 and we will be there urgently. we need the public�*s help to trace him. it's really important. finally, i am going to make a personal appeal to him because you clearly have got some very significant injuries stop we have seen the images, you need some medical help so do the right thing and hand yourself in. thank you very much everybody. thank you the media for your help in getting us to find him. thank you. they will be a press release coming out now with a bit more detail. 50 be a press release coming out now with a bit more detail.— with a bit more detail. so that is the conclusion _ with a bit more detail. so that is the conclusion of— with a bit more detail. so that is the conclusion of a _ with a bit more detail. so that is the conclusion of a press - with a bit more detail. so that is - the conclusion of a press conference outside new scotland yard by the metropolitan police giving us an update on the nationwide operation to try and track down abdul ezedi.

the family that were attacked in clapham are doing well. the mother is in hospital and she has severe injuries which might be life threatening. hertwo injuries which might be life threatening. her two young children are not in a serious condition. but the metropolitan police once again urging the public to help them in their search for abdul ezedi. we can go live now to new scotland yard and our correspondent graham satchell. tell us more about what the met police had to say.— police had to say. some very interesting — police had to say. some very interesting new _ police had to say. some very interesting new information | police had to say. some very . interesting new information first police had to say. some very - interesting new information first of all on the condition of the people who were injured in this horrific attack in clapham. some good news i suppose as far as the children are concerned. we are told they condition is not as serious as was potentially first thought and they are in the care of the nhs. so the children do not have life changing

injuries. not such good news for the mother who was described there as very poorly and will most likely have life changing injuries. she is sedated. then we got some considerable detail about what the police have been doing since wednesday night. we now know that there were five warrants issued, number in the east end of london and then to newcastle, we have seen images of police officers in full hazmat gear knocking on doors and bashing down doors so we don't know the exact detail of what that operation was but clearly some activity in the east end of london. then we got a very detailed timeline of abdul ezedi's movements. he has obviously been tracked on cctv cameras and motorway cameras through

the vehicle he was driving, this hire and i. we now know he left newcastle in the early hours of wednesday morning and arrived in tilting at 6:30am. so he travelled overnight. he was spotted in croydon and streatham and then in clapham. that is where the event took place. he is next seen at king's cross and caledonian road and in victoria. graham, thank you very much. i'm really sorry we have to leave it there because we are heading back to manchester where the cps are giving a statement. manchester where the cps are giving a statement-— a statement. sentencing hearing concludes one _ a statement. sentencing hearing concludes one of— a statement. sentencing hearing concludes one of the _ a statement. sentencing hearing concludes one of the most - a statement. sentencing hearing - concludes one of the most disturbing cases— concludes one of the most disturbing cases the _ concludes one of the most disturbing cases the cps has had to deal with. atiust _ cases the cps has had to deal with. atiust 16— cases the cps has had to deal with. atjust 16 scarlett cases the cps has had to deal with. at just 16 scarlett jenkinson and eddie _ at just 16 scarlett jenkinson and eddie ratcliffe are convicted killers — eddie ratcliffe are convicted killers responsible for the brutal murder— killers responsible for the brutal murder of— killers responsible for the brutal murder of a young girl who thought they were _ murder of a young girl who thought they were friends. the planning, violence — they were friends. the planning, violence and age of the killers is beyond — violence and age of the killers is beyond belief. the two appear to

have _ beyond belief. the two appear to have had — beyond belief. the two appear to have had a — beyond belief. the two appear to have had a deadly influence on each other— have had a deadly influence on each other and _ have had a deadly influence on each other and turned what may have started — other and turned what may have started out as dark fantasies about murder— started out as dark fantasies about murder into a reality. the messages between _ murder into a reality. the messages between the two provided a terrifying inside into the warped desires — terrifying inside into the warped desires and fantasies of the two defendants. however, they also provided — defendants. however, they also provided us with the motivation behind — provided us with the motivation behind the attack, the plans and the attempts— behind the attack, the plans and the attempts to cover it up. the crown prosecution — attempts to cover it up. the crown prosecution service presented all the evidence in this case for the 'ury the evidence in this case for the jury to _ the evidence in this case for the jury to consider including the hateful— jury to consider including the hateful and dehumanising language used to— hateful and dehumanising language used to describe brianna ghey. we applied _ used to describe brianna ghey. we applied to — used to describe brianna ghey. we applied to the judge for an increase in the _ applied to the judge for an increase in the defendants sentences because he believed this killing was a hate crime _ he believed this killing was a hate crime motivated in part by hostility towards _ crime motivated in part by hostility towards brianna ghey because she was transgender. we are pleased of the court _ transgender. we are pleased of the court has _ transgender. we are pleased of the court has agreed this was the motive — court has agreed this was the motive. today's sentence reflects the brutality of the two killers heartless crime and while it cannot raise _ heartless crime and while it cannot raise the _ heartless crime and while it cannot raise the pain of her loss we hope it brings _ raise the pain of her loss we hope it brings some closure. the crown prosecution— it brings some closure. the crown prosecution service would again like

to thank— prosecution service would again like to thank a _ prosecution service would again like to thank a family for the courage and dignity they have shown throughout the proceedings and our thoughts _ throughout the proceedings and our thoughts and sympathies remain with him at _ thoughts and sympathies remain with him at this— thoughts and sympathies remain with him at this difficult time. anki. so that him at this difficult time. anki. sc thatis him at this difficult time. anki. that is the him at this difficult time. anki. ’39 that is the conclusion of him at this difficult time. anki. sr that is the conclusion of a statement from nicola williams from the crown prosecution service in merseyside and cheshire. just to sum up merseyside and cheshire. just to sum up what she had to say, she said she was speaking following the sentencing of the two teenagers found guilty of murdering brianna ghey. she said she had praise for the family of brianna ghey and the way they had handled the case and the loss they had suffered. she said she hoped the sentencing of the two teenagers would offer some kind of closure for the family of brianna ghey. for more on this we can go

live now to doctor felicity gerry from london's live in this she is also an expert on homicide law. first of all, what is your reaction to the sentence of the two teenagers who murdered brianna ghey? it’s a who murdered brianna ghey? it's a relatively standard _ who murdered brianna ghey? it�*3 a. relatively standard sentence because the sentence for murder is mandatory. it's always a life sentence with a minimum term and the minimum term in relation to a stabbing the starting point is 25 years and will always go down the teenagers. so children aren't sentenced to less than adults. it's a relatively standard sentence even though that sounds horrible in relation to a murder. find though that sounds horrible in relation to a murder. and what is our relation to a murder. and what is your reaction. — relation to a murder. and what is your reaction, there's _ relation to a murder. and what is your reaction, there's been - relation to a murder. and what is your reaction, there's been a - relation to a murder. and what is your reaction, there's been a lot| your reaction, there's been a lot debate about the fact the two teenagers, their names have been made public and the pictures have

been published, what is reaction that decision? i been published, what is reaction that decision?— that decision? i think it's enormously _ that decision? i think it's| enormously disappointing that decision? i think it's - enormously disappointing that the law has not progressed in the approach to child offenders over the past 30 or 40 years. the vitriolic reaction that are going to come about as a result of publication are not helpful for anyone. as the father of the deceased person has said. it's only the name of brianna ghey that should be remembered. the judge has to balance the best instance of the reporting with the best interest of the children and in many ways best interest of the children is that their names are not known until work is done with them in prison. in my opinion no child should be the public —— subject of public reporting and we also should recognise that work needs to be done with children that do horrible things to understand that before we even consider publicising them. there is an immediate problem

already on the internet that one of the first videos has gone out as of the first videos has gone out as of the female defendant appearing to be vulnerable and distressed. that is not helpful for anyone to have those sorts of —— videos on the intranet. and it's a common problem when you have female defendants. there are serious issues with vulnerability for women and girls in prison. so it's all rather disappointing in my opinion. it's all rather disappointing in my oinion. , :, it's all rather disappointing in my oinion. , ., , ., , opinion. they have been arguments about the public _ opinion. they have been arguments about the public interest _ opinion. they have been arguments about the public interest in - opinion. they have been arguments about the public interest in this - about the public interest in this case but also the fact that if you name the two people out these murders then it could act as a deterrent to others not to carry out similar crimes.— similar crimes. unfortunately the deterrent theory _ similar crimes. unfortunately the deterrent theory doesn't - similar crimes. unfortunately the deterrent theory doesn't work - similar crimes. unfortunately the deterrent theory doesn't work at| deterrent theory doesn't work at also make nash naming people does not help anybody. it doesn't put a focus on the reason why the offences were committed in such a terrible way and in fact it's probably likely

to have a knock—on effect to other children. if another child watches horrible movie downloads an application that allows viewing on what's known as the dark web, settle you can imagine them being teased at school and being labelled like the killers in this case. unfortunately the low balance without thinking about the wider interests of other children as well. so it's not a law that helps at all and it really needs to be reconsidered to ensure that what we do is protect the anonymity of those people who do terrible things so that we can learn crime prevention, learn from what's happened and of course they can have some prospects of realisation. i wanted to ask you a question about rehabilitation because the justice in her sentencing said scarlett

jenkinson and eddie ratcliffe would not be released until they showed they were no longer a danger to the public. what is your expectation for rehabilitation in the cases? figain rehabilitation in the cases? again that's a fairly _ rehabilitation in the cases? again that's a fairly standard _ rehabilitation in the cases? c— “i that's a fairly standard comments from the judge because the parole board will decide whether or not they are released when they are adults. the practical reality is there is really good work that can be done with children who are adding mental health problems or other issues and we have very modern psychology and psychiatric learning and understanding now that means there are prospects of rehabilitation, perhaps a lot more so than for adults. it's notjust about arguments, it's about the knowledge that we have. we have an

evidence base now to know that we can be done with children even when they do terrible and horrible things. that work can be thoroughly undermined by images and labelling and naming. you have used their names every single time you asked me a question which puts it in peoples minds and will make people react to theirfamily and friends minds and will make people react to their family and friends and town and village and it is two things, takes peoples mind of the victim and their family takes peoples mind of the victim and theirfamily and it takes peoples mind of the victim and their family and it fails to have regard to all the scientific evidence we have in relation to diagnose diseases like mental health and autism and all the other issues have been mentioned in this case. we really do have to grow up in a way that we approach very serious cases and notjust argue about them but see how we can do a lot better in relation to children who do such terrible things and to make sure

that courts are much more informed so that we don't have this kneejerk reaction at the end of every serious case and we learn from other jurisdictions about children's courts and prioritising new ways forward. i think it's very disappointing and we could make an improvement in the law by keeping children's identities anonymous unless there is some exceptional i think anybody age of 18 who does something terrible should remain anonymous. something terrible should remain anonymous-— something terrible should remain anon mous. :, ~ y : anonymous. thank you very much. joinin: us anonymous. thank you very much. joining us here _ anonymous. thank you very much. joining us here on _ anonymous. thank you very much. joining us here on bbc— anonymous. thank you very much. joining us here on bbc news. - anonymous. thank you very much. joining us here on bbc news. now| anonymous. thank you very much. i joining us here on bbc news. now we are going to head back to new scotland yard where we can speak to our correspondent graham satchell who was listening in to our correspondent graham satchell who was listening into a press conference from the metropolitan police updating the public on the search for abdul ezedi. what more

can you tell us about the update? i think we have been given a whole raft of new information. that's the most significant is now the police are saying the last known sighting of abdul ezedi was at victoria tube station here in the centre of london at 9pm on wednesday night. you may remember that one of the working theories was that he may have been heading back up to the north—east of england, to newcastle, which is where he was from. but if he was at victoria station at 9pm then that might no longer be the case. obviously that's the last sighting we have of him. we also had considerably detailed timeline of his movements from newcastle down to london overnight on wednesday and then he was seen in croydon and streatham and then clapham before

the attack took place. then he went from clapham to king's cross and from clapham to king's cross and from king's cross to victoria. so we are now getting a much clearer idea of his movements on wednesday. but the police still don't having and they have made an appeal to the public to help and there was a direct appeal from the met police directly to abdul brianna ghey saying —— ezedi saying to the right thing and hand yourself in. the olice thing and hand yourself in. the police talked _ thing and hand yourself in. the police talked about carrying out five search warrants and the outworking with british transport police and police in newcastle so this looks like a complex operation. i think that's definitely right. they are saying they were five search warrants issued yesterday, three in the east of london, two in

newcastle. we have seen images of officers in hazmat equipment, you will remember of course that the attack involved a corrosive substance, so the police taking no chances, worried obviously that they may potentially be some kind of repeat and they are working with transport for london and british transport police officers in northumbria. so this is a nationwide search but still a search at this stage. i should say also that we got an update on the people who were injured in this attack. the 31—year—old mother who we are told remains in a very poorly condition with life changing injuries and in a sedated condition. some better news on the two children. they were two little girls involved and an eight—year—old and a year old. we are told that their injuries were not as serious as first thought and they remain in the care of the nhs.

and the continued appeal for the public to help share any information they can about whether they have seen abdul ezedi. remind us what the police are asking the public to do? the police are asking the public to help. they have issues, cctv issues of him. he has a very distinctive and serious injury on the right—hand side of his face. we are expecting further images to be released this afternoon. so they're asking members of the public and anybody who may know him to contact them but the advice is clear which is to not approach him because they say he remains a very dangerous man. find remains a very dangerous man. and 'ust remains a very dangerous man. and just remind — remains a very dangerous man. and just remind us _ remains a very dangerous man. and just remind us about this attack in clapham, what mr ezedi is accused of doing.

clapham, what mr ezedi is accused of doinu. , :, , clapham, what mr ezedi is accused of doin. _ , ., , ., clapham, what mr ezedi is accused of doinu. , :, :, , clapham, what mr ezedi is accused of doinu. , ., , , ., doing. this was a horrifying set of events that _ doing. this was a horrifying set of events that unfolded _ doing. this was a horrifying set of events that unfolded on _ doing. this was a horrifying set of. events that unfolded on wednesday night in a very quiet residential road. i was there yesterday afternoon. at 7:25pm residents heard screaming and shouting from the street and then from the images we have seen and the testimony i had yesterday what unfolded was the most horrifying of events. at one stage it looks as though mr ezedi allegedly tries to run someone over. i've heard testimony of him picking up i've heard testimony of him picking up the three—year—old girl and throwing her slamming her to floor twice. it's almost unimaginable. a ferocious attack. and then of course there was the use of this alkaline corrosive substance which has left the mother with such serious injuries. so are very distressing and horrific and violent attack.

thank you very much. graham satchell the outside new scotland yard for this. if you want to continue watching full coverage of this story or the other story we have been covering this afternoon which is the sentencing of scarlettjenkinson and eddie ratcliffe, as well as the search for abdul ezedi, you can do so by going to the bbc website and the bbc i player where we are streaming nonstop today. sojust navigate to the news pages to see all available live streams. we will bring you all the developments in the manhunt for the suspect in the clapham alkaline attack. and there is a stream on the brianna ghey case. you are watching bbc news.

hello. this is bbc news. here in the uk, the two people who killed brianna ghey have been sentenced to prison. both 16, the killed brianna ghey in 2023 in cheshire, north—west england. a nationwide hunt is still under way to find the man suspected of carrying out a corrosive liquid attack in london. police have made a direct appeal to him. you attack in london. police have made a direct appeal to him.— direct appealto him. you have got some very — direct appealto him. you have got some very significant _ direct appealto him. you have got some very significant injuries. - direct appealto him. you have got some very significant injuries. we | some very significant injuries. we have seen the images. you need some medical help. do the right thing and hand yourself in. in

medical help. do the right thing and hand yourself in.— hand yourself in. in other news, israel hand yourself in. in other news, lsrael says _ hand yourself in. in other news, lsrael says it — hand yourself in. in other news, israel says it is _ hand yourself in. in other news, israel says it is pushing - hand yourself in. in other news, israel says it is pushing the - israel says it is pushing the offensive south. it comes as more than 800 and european officials signed a protest statement about the government's policies over the war in gaza. hello. we begin here in the uk. it is the murder case that has raised disturbing questions about violence against transgender people. brianna ghey was stabbed to death in a park last year. eddie ratcliffe and scarlettjenkinson were sentenced to a minimum of 20 and 22 years respectively in a highly unusual move, thejudge in the case

respectively in a highly unusual move, the judge in the case lifted the usual anonymity given to young