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tv   BBC News Now  BBC News  February 5, 2024 12:30pm-1:01pm GMT

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�* issue on which there was only issue on which there was disagreement or difficulty was on theissue disagreement or difficulty was on the issue of legacy. it probably took up less than a quarter of the phone call but it was an issue i raised and i thought it important we should discuss it, but it is very clearly a point of significant difference between the two governments, but that doesn't mean that we can work together in so many other things that are important, too. thank you. you were just watching a press conference given by the taoiseach, leo varadkar. this is a very significant day at stormont. he was addressing the media at parliament buildings after meeting ministers at stormont castle. as you heard there, he was saying that he was very confident that these institutions
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will last and the priority now has to be the day—to—day concerns for irish politicians. we would like to welcome back viewers from around the world. welcome to bbc news. let's stay with northern ireland and the visit to the newly revived stormont. here is rishi sunak speaking a short while ago. i here is rishi sunak speaking a short while auo. . , here is rishi sunak speaking a short whileauo. . , , . while ago. i had very constructive meetin: while ago. i had very constructive meeting this _ while ago. i had very constructive meeting this morning _ while ago. i had very constructive meeting this morning with - while ago. i had very constructive meeting this morning with the i meeting this morning with the executive, political leaders across stormont and it is an historic and important day for the country because northern ireland posed are backin because northern ireland posed are back in charge making decisions on behalf of the people, which is exactly how it should be. our duty will give them more funding and more powers than they have ever had so they can deliver for families and businesses across northern ireland and that is what everyone's priority is now. it is delivering on the day—to—day things that matter to people. that is why i am visiting
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this integrated primary school because the children here are the future and because of the progress we have made in the last few days that future is undeniably brighter. michelle o'neill presumably also said to you this morning that they need more funding, that the £35 billion package is not enough. what billion package is not enough. what was the response _ billion package is not enough. what was the response to _ billion package is not enough. wuat was the response to her? billion package is not enough. wusgt was the response to her? i had very constructive meeting today with all political leaders instrument and new executive. the funding package that we put on the table christmas has been widely recognised as being significant and generous, a focus on long—term stability ensuring that northern ireland has the funding it needs notjust northern ireland has the funding it needs not just for today northern ireland has the funding it needs notjust for today but is on a path as to be able to provide high quality public services into the future. that is what we want, a biter —— a brighter future for the children school here. as we've been hearing, power—sharing in northern ireland finally resumed on saturday
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for the first time in two years. a short while ago, mr sunak arrived at the parliament buildings in stormont, belfast. he met the irish prime minister, leo varadkar. there are a lot of issues to sort out, including public sector pay and nhs waiting lists. sara girvin has been talking to students in belfast to hear their thoughts on the new devolved government. it's almost like you're ashamed to be from here sometimes just because of the way that the government get on like children. people say to themselves, "0h, government won't last long, and probably in a year or two's time there'll be another problem for them to kick up a fuss about." personally, i don't want to have to leave here. i i want to actually work and try to make this . place work for everyone. this is northern ireland's first planned integrated school — set up in the 1980s specifically to educate catholics and protestants together. politics students there have been following the events of the past week closely. the dup and other political parties are still getting paid for not doing theirjob properly.
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what's it like being a young person in northern ireland? as mad as it looks, people watching on the news, we all do lead normal enough lives here — or at least normal for us. these young people are part of northern ireland's future, but is northern ireland part of theirs? i would love to say that i'd love to live here for the rest of my life. if northern ireland became more open and the political system became better here, i would come back. apart from its quirks, i do love living here. but, realistically, looking at the political situation, i don't really see it getting any better. it's sometimes shameful to say, "oh, i'm from northern ireland," especially as a politics student. when you talk to others — like when you go to england, if you talk to people who study politics, they go, "oh, northern ireland, we hear you're a bit of a...bit of a loose cannon." do you find, as a teenager, those kind of old sectarian divides — catholic/protestant, unionist/nationalist — i mean, does that affect your life? i'm ashamed to say i probably do think about that. i think that's sort of embedded in all of us here, sort of a wee tiny bit.
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but it's just sort of something automatically that seems to come with living here and we just do it so naturally, unfortunately, and, you know, it shouldn't be like that. and hopefully in generations to come, it won't be like that. in the next decade, where do you see northern ireland? is it inside the united kingdom or as part of a united ireland? i don't think there will be a united ireland, and i'm not too sure if there'll be a united ireland in my lifetime. i think that there, you know, will be motions to maybe move towards one, but i think that we should remain a part of the united kingdom. 100%, i do believe there will be |a united ireland in my lifetime. | because when you look at the current situation that we've had _ for the last two years, and over the last iooi years of partition — _ partition has failed everyone. the past week has seen massive political change in northern ireland — the return of devolved government, and the first nationalist first minister in the shape of sinn fein's michelle o'neill. it's truly historic and, as someone who would come from — who would be a republican themselves
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— it's truly amazing to see that we're really making progress. if you could give a message to politicians in northern ireland, what would it be? you're voted in to represent your constituents and to represent your country. do the job. the point that you're there is to solve problems, not create them. for me, it's aboutjust making sure that you're delivering for normal people and making sure that people can stay here and be able to live good lives. the message from these young people is clear, but are politicians in northern ireland listening? sara girvin, bbc news, in belfast. we have just been hearing from the irish premiership, leo varadkar. he has said he once devolved government in northern ireland to last. he was greeted by michelle o'neill and the deputy first minister. they had a meeting inside before leo varadkar met with the newly formed stormont
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executive. live now to lord peter hain, former northern ireland secretary. we also have the former taoiseach bertie ahern. welcome both of you to the programme. bertie ahern, there have been so many years since the beginning of power—sharing, there have been hitches along the way, not least in the last two years, but what has been your reaction as ye have seen the return of power—sharing at stormont? unfortunately, the institutions of the good friday agreement have been suspended too often. out of the last seven years we have probably lost five. we are thankful for the progress that has been made over the last number of months. i was hopeful
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that the institution will be back up before christmas, but better late than never. i think the fact that saturday went well, we now have the first minister and deputy first minister and we have an executive, and it is a very experienced executive. i'm impressed with the appointments, i know most of them. they have served before. they will bring a lot of experience and action to thejob. i bring a lot of experience and action to the job. i wish them well and hope that we can have a sustained period now of really good executive functioning with the assembly in the north and the north — south bodies as well. north and the north - south bodies as well. ., , ., ., ., , as well. lord peter hain, how was power-sharing — as well. lord peter hain, how was power-sharing achieved _ as well. lord peter hain, how was power-sharing achieved way - as well. lord peter hain, how was power-sharing achieved way back| power—sharing achieved way back when, when both of you would have been working together? how do you bring about an approach when politicians are coming from such a different perspective, how do you get people around the table to talk?
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first of all it's a delight to be sharing — first of all it's a delight to be sharing this interview with bertie again. _ sharing this interview with bertie again, who played a crucial role with _ again, who played a crucial role with tony — again, who played a crucial role with tony blair in the good friday agreement of 1998 and then in the agreement that i helped secure under tony blair— agreement that i helped secure under tony blair that brought ian paisley senior_ tony blair that brought ian paisley senior and — tony blair that brought ian paisley senior and martin mcguinness, x ira commander, to share power amicably togetheh _ commander, to share power amicably together. that lasted for ten years before _ together. that lasted for ten years before we — together. that lasted for ten years before we hit these kind of bumps along _ before we hit these kind of bumps along the — before we hit these kind of bumps along the way. the important thing, and this— along the way. the important thing, and this is_ along the way. the important thing, and this is especially a message directed — and this is especially a message directed at the british government, the british— directed at the british government, the british prime minister however that might be, as you have got to be seen as_ that might be, as you have got to be seen as an _ that might be, as you have got to be seen as an honest broker and that was the _ seen as an honest broker and that was the crucial difference that tony blair made — was the crucial difference that tony blair made an bertie ahern made and helped _ blair made an bertie ahern made and helped create where we are now, which _ helped create where we are now, which is — helped create where we are now, which is to — helped create where we are now, which is to have a power—sharing government out of the tangled horrible — government out of the tangled horrible history of northern ireland _ horrible history of northern ireland. it is imperative that number— ireland. it is imperative that number 10 downing street always plays _ number 10 downing street always
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plays that role. unfortunately, that has not _ plays that role. unfortunately, that has not been the case as it should have _ has not been the case as it should have heeri— has not been the case as it should have been since 2010 and that is in part responsible for the difficulties and respected suspensions we have had since. be an honest— suspensions we have had since. be an honest broker, don't take sides in london. _ honest broker, don't take sides in london. you — honest broker, don't take sides in london, you try to bring people together~ — london, you try to bring people touether. ., , , london, you try to bring people touether. . , , .., , london, you try to bring people touether. . ,, .., , , together. perhaps i could “ust put that oint together. perhaps i could “ust put that point to i together. perhaps i could “ust put that point to mrfi together. perhaps i could “ust put that point to mr ahern. _ together. perhaps i could just put that point to mr ahern. we - together. perhaps i could just put that point to mr ahern. we are i that point to mr ahern. we are talking about differences between politicians in northern ireland, but how important is the relationship between westminster and dublin? peter is correct. he was incredibly important to the whole process when he was there, peter. northern ireland is a divided society. i wish it wasn't, but it is, but will probably remain so. everything has its context in northern ireland. all the time you have to be careful and if the two governments work together, if the two governments
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seem to work together, for example i would like to see a giant press conference today, but i'm sure there are reasons why that wasn't the case, but people will remember that tony blair and i always did that, regardless of whether it was a good day or a bad day, we work together. i think it is really important, particularly for the early years of this new executive, that this government, whatever future government, whatever future government is there, work really closely together and try and help them. there are a whole lot of things in northern ireland that people jump things in northern ireland that peoplejump on. the things in northern ireland that people jump on. the crucial thing todayis people jump on. the crucial thing today is that they work on implementing the good friday agreement, making sure the executive, the assembly, the north— south bodies function, not going to whether there should be a referendum at some future date. i can tell you what will happen in ten years. i can
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tell you what will happen tomorrow, to be honest. we need to keep the focus on the issues that are important and what is important now is that northern ireland has a whole lot of problems of public sector workers, it is a difficult economy, it needs more investment, it needs to work with the european union, with the uk internal economy, with the republic of ireland. these are all the important things. it is a toughjob and i wish all the important things. it is a tough job and i wish all the executive members well. just before we started talking _ executive members well. just before we started talking we _ executive members well. just before we started talking we spoke - executive members well. just before we started talking we spoke to - executive members well. just before we started talking we spoke to some young people in belfast and there was a real mix of opinion. there was a sense that they were embarrassed by their politicians and these were people born well after the good friday agreement, sceptical that power—sharing woodwork and a feeling that politicians want doing the job that politicians want doing the job that they were paid to do. how does that they were paid to do. how does that feel after you did so much to bring about power—sharing in northern ireland? it is
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bring about power-sharing in northern ireland?— bring about power-sharing in northern ireland? it is not easy bein: a northern ireland? it is not easy being a politician _ northern ireland? it is not easy being a politician anywhere, - northern ireland? it is not easy being a politician anywhere, itl northern ireland? it is not easy| being a politician anywhere, it is not easy in northern ireland so i won't criticise them. young people would find it hard to understand that people who were elected over the last five or seven years spent only two years at their desk. in my day in politics you wouldn't have got away with that. you can't blame people. but i think people will want to see and young people want to see now the educational services, they will want to see health being better, the economy being better. politicians in london and politicians in dublin want to help the politicians in the north. peter hayman and i am others what we try to do, we tried to be helpful to stop the trouble, stop the violence, build a new society and help people to work together. that is all we ever wanted to do.—
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ever wanted to do. lord peter hayman. _ ever wanted to do. lord peter hayman. we _ ever wanted to do. lord peter hayman, we heard _ ever wanted to do. lord peter hayman, we heard leo - ever wanted to do. lord peter i hayman, we heard leo varadkar ever wanted to do. lord peter - hayman, we heard leo varadkar said he was confident that these institutions would last. i am ho eful institutions would last. i am hepeful and _ institutions would last. i am hopeful and i'm _ institutions would last. i am hopeful and i'm very - institutions would last. i am | hopeful and i'm very pleased institutions would last. i am hopeful and i'm very pleased and i congratulate the british government for managing to help resurrect stormont with the agreement of the dup and _ stormont with the agreement of the dup and others. crucial in addition to the _ dup and others. crucial in addition to the point— dup and others. crucial in addition to the point i made earlier about the uk _ to the point i made earlier about the uk being an honest broker, and this relates — the uk being an honest broker, and this relates to something that bertie — this relates to something that bertie said, is you got to have trust — bertie said, is you got to have trust part— bertie said, is you got to have trust. part of the problem that has caused _ trust. part of the problem that has caused all— trust. part of the problem that has caused all the pumping lists or contributed to it in recent years, is that— contributed to it in recent years, is that trust _ contributed to it in recent years, is that trust broke down between london _ is that trust broke down between london and dublin and i'm afraid it was london's fault. the only way you can make _ was london's fault. the only way you can make the good friday agreements and all— can make the good friday agreements and all that— can make the good friday agreements and all that has flown from it work is if london — and all that has flown from it work is if london and dublin work together. it was london's failure, poisoned — together. it was london's failure, poisoned by the brexit agenda, to actually— poisoned by the brexit agenda, to actually see the irish government as actually see the irish government as a partner— actually see the irish government as a partner in— actually see the irish government as a partner in the way that it was for
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the ten _ a partner in the way that it was for the ten years under tony blair. it was very— the ten years under tony blair. it was very important to see the prime minister— was very important to see the prime minister and the taoiseach, tony blair— minister and the taoiseach, tony blair and — minister and the taoiseach, tony blair and bertie ahern, minister and the taoiseach, tony blairand bertie ahern, at minister and the taoiseach, tony blair and bertie ahern, at one working — blair and bertie ahern, at one working together, whatever differences there been enough detail, — differences there been enough detail, working together in public because — detail, working together in public because the history of the uk and the republic of ireland is a very tangled — the republic of ireland is a very tangled and are very distrustful one _ tangled and are very distrustful one it — tangled and are very distrustful one it is — tangled and are very distrustful one. it is critical that that is maintained and resurrected. i don't know— maintained and resurrected. i don't know what— maintained and resurrected. i don't know what happened about the joint press _ know what happened about the joint press conference, but it is crucial that the — press conference, but it is crucial that the taoiseach and british prime minister— that the taoiseach and british prime minister have a close working relationship and are seen to do so, because _ relationship and are seen to do so, because the — relationship and are seen to do so, because the nationalist catholic and protestant unionist divide in northern ireland is still deep and you need — northern ireland is still deep and you need senior politicians to be able to— you need senior politicians to be able to bring people together, not to continue to divide them. a start -- as— to continue to divide them. a start -- as far— to continue to divide them. a start -- as far as— to continue to divide them. a start —— as far as the future is concerned, i'm sure there will be humps _ concerned, i'm sure there will be bumps because you can come from a
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society— bumps because you can come from a society torn — bumps because you can come from a society torn by conflict and sectarianism and prejudice and bitterness in bombs and bullets into a new _ bitterness in bombs and bullets into a new situation without bumps. it takes _ a new situation without bumps. it takes time — a new situation without bumps. it takes time and it will still take time — takes time and it will still take time but _ takes time and it will still take time, but what is important as we keep— time, but what is important as we keep working on it and if i make one final point, — keep working on it and if i make one final point, the british prime minister— final point, the british prime minister and final point, the british prime ministerand numberten final point, the british prime minister and number ten have got to keep on— minister and number ten have got to keep on the — minister and number ten have got to keep on the job 20 47. you can't say, _ keep on the job 20 47. you can't say, as— keep on the job 20 47. you can't say, as i'm — keep on the job 20 47. you can't say, as i'm afraid i think the assumption was afterjune 2010, that this is— assumption was afterjune 2010, that this is done — assumption was afterjune 2010, that this is done. northern ireland is never— this is done. northern ireland is never done. the process of peacemaking is a process, not an event _ peacemaking is a process, not an event htr— peacemaking is a process, not an event. ~ �* peacemaking is a process, not an event. ~ . .., peacemaking is a process, not an event. ~ . ., event. mr ahern, could asked for our event. mr ahern, could asked for your confidence _ event. mr ahern, could asked for your confidence in _ event. mr ahern, could asked for your confidence in the _ event. mr ahern, could asked for| your confidence in the institutions lasting? your confidence in the institutions lastin: ? �* , ., , your confidence in the institutions lastina? �*, , your confidence in the institutions lastinu? �*, ,'::::f lasting? peter's last point is 100% correct, it lasting? peter's last point is 10096 correct. it is _ lasting? peter's last point is 10096 correct. it is a _ lasting? peter's last point is 10096 correct, it is a process _ lasting? peter's last point is 10096 correct, it is a process and - lasting? peter's last point is 10096 correct, it is a process and it - correct, it is a process and it won't end here. the act —— the executive set up on saturday doesn't end anything, it gains another phase
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of this and it will be crucial going forward. confidence that people will work together, the public wanted to work. we have seen the biggest strike ever in the history of northern ireland and that they send something in 100 years. there are huge issues to deal with. there won't be much of a honeymoon that normally politicians get after an election. i think the honeymoon will probably get them to tomorrow. it'll be tough for them, they need help, support and encouragement. it is great that the institutions are up, i know it has been a lot of hard work with the secretary of state and by others in number ten to get that, but we have got it now. the other issue, i think there are a number of matters that need to be looked at to
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enable any party to bring down the institutions again, that should not be put on the back burner, it should be put on the back burner, it should be high up on the agenda. thank you both for your — be high up on the agenda. thank you both for your time. _ around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. bbc news, bringing you different stories from across the uk. many new memories were made today as history was shared. kevin! charlie did his national service between 1957 and �*59 as a grenadier guard in malta, cyprus.
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the best thing for me i roamed about i did what i wanted. i went all over. for more stories from across the uk, head to the bbc news website. you're live with bbc news. the large hadron collider is the world's biggest atom smasher — but, as it turns out, it's not big enough. the european centre for particle research, cern, is unveiling details of a new particle accelerator today — something three times larger and twice as deep. our science correspondent pallab ghosh has been to switzerland, to find out why they need an upgrade. wow. welcome to the large hadron collider. it's huge! it's massive. i can tell you after ten years
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working here, coming through this tunnel nearly every day, i still get that sort of wow as i look at all of it. this experiment has been going on for more than a decade. it's made some important discoveries, such as a particle called the higgs boson. this is one of the detectors that discovered the higgs12 years ago. it was an incredible scientific achievement. but the lhc was built to do much more than that. it was supposed to discover brand—new particles that would change the theory of physics. it hasn't. so in that sense, it's failed. and that's why they need a larger machine. the plan is to build what's called the fcc — the future circular collider — next to the existing accelerator. it'll be at least twice as deep and measure nearly 91 kilometres — that's around 56 miles. inside, particles will travel much further than they currently do. they're pulsed by an electric field and stronger magnets,
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which make the particles collide with much greater force and, hopefully, revealing far more. there are so many outstanding questions in fundamental physics today and, in our knowledge of the universe, its structure and its evolution, for which we have no answer. and so we need more powerful instruments to be able to address those questions. thousands of scientists here are hunting for the tiny breaking in here because we saw some pictures of leo varadkar, thousands of scientists here are hunting for the tiny particles that are contained in the atoms that make up the world around us.
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professor mitesh patel has spent his entire professional life searching for them. i think, for me, this is really about exploration. to be able to look for something genuinely new. if you're going to go and explore the unknown, then, of course, you don't know what you're going to find and you can't guarantee a particular outcome. but that doesn't mean that it's not important for us to look. this enormous underground lab lies hidden away beneath the swiss french alps. the plan is to stretch it even further. so detailed environmental assessments are being carried out on the impact to the community. translation: we care a lot about the environment, - it's very important. especially excavating rocks or water can be some concern. so we have a lot of questions to cern and we expect, of course, cern to address all these questions. the first stage of the new collider won't be fully operational until 2045. and, if it gets a go—ahead, there'll be huge environmental, technological and scientific challenges to overcome. and then, of course, there's the cost — up to £17 billion. you're going to so much effort digging all these tunnels, spending so much money to smash particles together. and so what's the point? um, scientific exploration. i think it's almost like asking, "what's the point of art or music?"
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i think humans have this curiosity of finding what's out there and what is... how does the world around you work? and fcc will help us answer some of those questions. the researchers here feel that they're within reach of finding new particles that really make the universe tick. one more heave, they say, and they could make one of the biggest breakthroughs of all time. pallab ghosh, bbc news, cern. it been a huge night for taylor swift , who stole the stole the show at this year's grammy awards , and broke some records along the way. it's the 66th annual grammy awards. and tonight, we're coming to you live from the city of los angeles, where the local population has just survived the unthinkable — rain. as a storm battered la,
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there was shelter for the stars on the red carpet. while, inside the arena, the awards rained down for female artists. ijust won my first grammy! miley cyrus picked up two grammys, giving the crowd a little more than they bargained for. thank you all so much. i don't think i forgot anyone, but i might have forgotten underwear. bye. billie eilish. and the barbie movie took home a win tonight with billie eilish given song of the year for her hit from the film's soundtrack. # i used to float. # now ijust fall down. # i used to know...# taylor swift for midnights. but it's taylor swift who keeps on breaking records. and, as she made history by becoming the only artist to win best album four times, fans were in for a much—anticipated announcement. my brand—new album... cheering. ..comes out april 19th.
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cue swiftie hysteria! a strong showing for women in the big categories is a significant moment for the grammys, which has faced criticism for overlooking some female artists in the past. and this year is a memorable one forfemale artists across several generations. # moons and junes and ferris wheels.# this was a moment many fans never thought they'd see. joni mitchell performing for the first time at the grammys at 80 years old. # ..way that you feel... a remarkable comeback after almost losing her life to a brain aneurysm. # when i'm vulnerable. # he's straight talking to my soul. with major wins and powerful performances, this was a grammys in which women were well and truly centre stage. emma vardy, bbc news, los angeles. for viewers in the uk we have an
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hour—long programme on the bbc iplayer about the grammys. hello there. whilst we saw a bit of sunshine here and there, on the whole it's been a cloudy start to the new week and particularly gray and gloomy across northern parts of scotland with persistent thick, low clouds bringing a lot of rain. actually, there's been over 100 millimetres of rain in highland scotland on that slow moving weatherfront, bringing that band of thicker cloud. now, the weather front will take rain southwards over the next few days, followed by colder air from the north. now, at the moment, that colder air is in the far north of scotland. away from here, we're still in very mild air. and those temperatures won't change a great deal. actually, overnight, we've still got a brisk south—westerly wind bringing in all the cloud, a little drizzle. the main band of rain pushes a bit further south across scotland, allowing northern areas to see a few wintry showers, some clear spells, icy conditions as we see a touch of frost. quite a contrast here with those temperatures that we start tuesday with across england and wales. now the main rain band sitting across southern scotland
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and northern ireland in the morning pushes southwards, takes some rain into northern england and wales, heavy over the hills. sunshine follows to the north and we've got a few wintry showers coming in to northern parts of scotland. it will feel chillier across scotland and northern ireland and northernmost parts of england. but ahead of the rain in southern england, where it's still dry, cloudy and very mild, temperatures are 13 or 14 degrees. but even here, we'll get some rain overnight as that weather front pushes its way southwards. it allows that colder air to move down across more of the country and there'll be a frost in many places early on wednesday morning, but hopefully some sunshine as well. the far south of england through the english channel, still cloudy, a bit of rain at times across northern scotland. we're looking at some snow showers even to low levels. it's going to feel cold here. and typical temperatures on wednesday will be six oi’ seven degrees. there's a weather frontjust hanging around in the english channel by the end of wednesday. as we head into thursday, it's going to move northwards again as this big area of low pressure comes in from the atlantic. that wet weather moving northwards
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is moving into cold air. so we may well see rain across the far south of england and south wales, but a mixture of sleet and snow as you move further north. and there is a warning out for thursday and thursday night, widely looking at two to five centimetres of snow in this area. it is a yellow warning from the met office. it's still a long way ahead and the details could change as well.
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today at one — a man arrested by police after the death of a grandmother in a dog attack in essex is released on bail. 39—year—old ashley warren was held on suspicion of dangerous dog offences — esther martin was fatally injured on saturday. prime minister rishi sunak is in stormont today to mark the return of power—sharing in northern ireland. after days of air strikes against iranian—linked targets in the middle east, america's top diplomat heads to the region again for more talks. we speak to the outgoing chelsea manager about how a lack of female coaches in women's football is a �*massive issue' what is your name, lad? you should know by now — what is your name, lad? you should know by now you — what is your name, lad? you should know by now you have _ what is your name, lad? you should know by now you have been - what is your name, lad? you should know by now you have been a - what is your name, lad? you should know by now you have been a friend| know by now you have been a friend of my— know by now you have been a friend of my mum's — know by now you have been a friend of my mum's since before i was born.
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ian lavender — the actor known to millions as private

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