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tv   BBC News  BBC News  February 10, 2024 3:00am-3:31am GMT

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sudan's warring factions have agreed to talks on allowing aid into the country, but a political solution seems a distant reality. plus, we'll hear from humanitarian workers, diplomats, and experts, to help explain the conflict and prospects for a resolution to the crisis. hello, i'm carl nasman. welcome to this bbc news special report on the war in sudan. the united nations recently urged the international community not to forget the civilians caught in the middle of sudan's civil war. millions of people in africa's third largest country are in desperate need of humanitarian aid, after 10 months of fighting. first, here's more on the roots of the conflict. sudan is engulfed in a vicious power struggle between
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the sudanese army's de facto leader abdel fattah al—burhan, and a paramilitary group called the rapid support forces, led by mohamed hamdan dagalo. it began on april 15, of last year, when fierce fighting erupted between the two warring factions, in the capital khartoum and the western region of darfur. a week later, foreign countries began evacuating their citizens, as thousands of sudanese citizens fled their homes, many remained trapped. on april 25th, both sides agreed to a 72—hour truce negotiated by the us and saudi arabia, but the deal was quickly violated. six months into the war, sudan became the largest internal displacement crisis in the world and during that same month the world health organization said 70—percent of sudan's medicalfacilities were no longer functioning. the humanitarian crisis on the ground is deepening. the un's humanitarian coordinator martin griffiths says leaders from both sides have agreed to meet for talks on the delivery of aid, though it's unclear
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when that will happen. mr griffiths says at least 25 million people are in need of immediate help and the un has had limited access. the world food programme reports that 18 million people across the country face acute hunger and nearly 5 million now face emergency levels of hunger. security threats and roadblocks have made the work of humanitarian agencies nearly impossible. the un is appealing for $4.1 billion to fund humanitarian operations in sudan, and help neighbouring countries hosting refugees. here's the high commissioner for refugees, speaking from sudan this week. it is important to reiterate our call. especially to the military leaders here in sudan. they have to go back to peace talks. they have to go back to a meaningful peace track at least starting with a ceasefire so that people can go back to
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their homes, the millions of those that have been displaced. then, in the meantime, when this complex political exercise goes on, it is crucial to provide basic assistance to all those affected. to refugees, to displace, to those hosting them that often have very few resources and to work with the local authorities with the third girl authorities to support these people. —— federal there's been a mass exodus of refugees since the war broke out, as people continue to flee the fighting. over 10.7 million people have been displaced from their homes in sudan including 9 million who've been displaced internally. sudan has the highest rate of internal displacement in the world, surpassing syria. more than 1.5 million people have fled across sudan's borders to the central african republic, to chad, egypt, ethiopia and south sudan. and the un's refugee chief has warned that europe may also see an influx
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of sudanese migrants due to the war. earlier, i wasjoined by cindy courville, former us ambassador to the african union and former white house advisor on african affairs, and quscondy abdulshafi, who's a sudanese activist and researcher at peace direct. a 10—month conflict and once seemingly that is not really much closer to resolution. ambassador, i'd like to start with you. this has been called by many the forgotten war. does that label sound right you? do you think the world is paying enough attention to what is going on in sudan? 1 enough attention to what is going on in sudan?- going on in sudan? i think unfortunately _ going on in sudan? i think unfortunately it _ going on in sudan? i think unfortunately it is - going on in sudan? i think unfortunately it is the - unfortunately it is the forgotten war. you've had the situation dashed the war in ukraine, now we have with palestine and israel. and we also have a situation in sudan where we did not have peace to begin with. this has been a military regime since she was president. so it has had
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unfortunately a long history of military ruling and instability. democracy has never existed. i would say from 2006- 2008, when never existed. i would say from 2006— 2008, when secretary rice went to sudan and met with president basheer at the time, it was either she said cooperation or we're going to move forward on dealing with you. and not since then, i think the other presidents have attempted but again the competing interests in the world have taken it away from. and turning to you, you have not been back to your home country of sudan since 2007? yourfamily and country of sudan since 2007? your family and love once, country of sudan since 2007? yourfamily and love once, some of them are still there. what you know, what are they telling you know, what are they telling you about the latest, in terms of the situation on the ground in sudan?— of the situation on the ground in sudan? , , ~ ., ~ in sudan? definitely. and thank ou so in sudan? definitely. and thank you so much — in sudan? definitely. and thank you so much for— in sudan? definitely. and thank you so much for having - in sudan? definitely. and thank you so much for having me - in sudan? definitely. and thank| you so much for having me here today. to you so much for having me here toda . ., , ., , ., today. to put in a nut show, currently — today. to put in a nut show, currently sudan _
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today. to put in a nut show, currently sudan and - currently sudan and particularly that for where i came — particularly that for where i came from is the darkest part of hell— came from is the darkest part of hell on _ came from is the darkest part of hell on earth. the situation is very— of hell on earth. the situation is very much dire and some people _ is very much dire and some people are hanging in dire straits _ people are hanging in dire straits. not only because of the lack— straits. not only because of the lack of access of food, but also _ the lack of access of food, but also people who are living in accidents_ also people who are living in accidents of state institutions in a situation where you have eight — in a situation where you have eight old _ in a situation where you have eight old kids have more advanced guns hunting for anything that glitters from ethnic_ anything that glitters from ethnic basis. that is a situation people live in. in particularly in darfur region where _ particularly in darfur region where the militia controls but it is the — where the militia controls but it is the same situation that lives- — it is the same situation that lives— currently people under the conflict area which is khartoum, and recently in the centre — khartoum, and recently in the centre of— khartoum, and recently in the
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centre of sudan. so the situation as well as the people there — situation as well as the people there surviving each day as the last day, — there surviving each day as the last day, if— there surviving each day as the last day, if we take the next day — last day, if we take the next da . ~ ., .,, last day, if we take the next da. ., day. we heard those statistics earlier. millions _ day. we heard those statistics earlier. millions displays, - earlier. millions displays, millions facing hunger. difficult to put those numbers into perspective of what does that mean for a country like sudan? how do the numbers reflect in terms of the people still living there? the different _ still living there? the different scenario - still living there? the different scenario of. still living there? the different scenario of sudan more — different scenario of sudan more at _ different scenario of sudan more at this time is completely opposite — more at this time is completely opposite of any other examples of the _ opposite of any other examples of the civil wars in africa. the — of the civil wars in africa. the difference is that most of the civii— the difference is that most of the civil wars, particularly start _ the civil wars, particularly start and _ the civil wars, particularly start and displays the rural areas. _ start and displays the rural areas, and you have civilians in the — areas, and you have civilians in the urban centres still safe _ in the urban centres still safe. the new wave of war actualty _ safe. the new wave of war actually starts in the centre of khartoum, centre of all centralised system in a centralised system in a centralised state and spread across — centralised state and spread across the region. in darfur
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for instance, in 2003 people have — for instance, in 2003 people have been targeted from the village — have been targeted from the village they ran to the cities and — village they ran to the cities and they— village they ran to the cities and they made idp camps and got access— and they made idp camps and got access to — and they made idp camps and got access to schools. now, the war actually — access to schools. now, the war actually targeted the people in the city — actually targeted the people in the city and they have to run to go— the city and they have to run to go to _ the city and they have to run to go to the empty idp camps. so the _ to go to the empty idp camps. so the displacement numbers are even _ so the displacement numbers are even higher. it is very difficult to imagine the areas people — difficult to imagine the areas people in the whole regions... aljazeera _ people in the whole regions... aljazeera and khartoum. that had never— aljazeera and khartoum. that had never been displaced before now _ had never been displaced before now. meaning that whole populations in this vast area of sudan _ populations in this vast area of sudan are directly impacted. i of sudan are directly impacted. i want — of sudan are directly impacted. i want to— of sudan are directly impacted. i want to bring up darfur now. the uk said the situation there as quote all the hallmarks of ethnic cleansing. the uss sarah ponting at delma echoes of genocide 20 years ago. how concerned are you of the ethnic violence there?— violence there? thank you. i'm very concerned. _ violence there? thank you. i'm
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very concerned. i _ violence there? thank you. i'm very concerned. i was - violence there? thank you. i'm very concerned. i was in - violence there? thank you. i'm very concerned. i was in darfur| very concerned. i was in darfur in 2006 and in refugee camps. the situations were dire then but as you talk about we have not only the rural but the urban areas and people are being displaced. we do not have a government functioning to even deliver services, making it impossible for the un to really deliver services. so evenif really deliver services. so even if the us wanted to go in, who are we negotiating with? because the two generals, who work together, you know... previously they did. they did! and they were both at the forefront of overpowering president which is. so you see a pattern of regime change taking place. unfortunately the people are suffering so much, even those who are going as refugees into ethiopia, a situation that is not stable as well or into chad or central african republic.— african republic. truly a forgotten _ african republic. truly a forgotten people. - african republic. truly a| forgotten people. would african republic. truly a - forgotten people. would you like to see the biden
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administration doing more. you mention it is difficult because there is no—one person to negotiate with, but what more could a usb doing?! negotiate with, but what more could a usb doing?— negotiate with, but what more could a usb doing? i would say for the biden _ could a usb doing? i would say for the biden administration, . for the biden administration, the secretary of state made the attempt. you have to have parties who are willing to sit down at the table. so it is difficult. the secretary of state is doing shuttle diplomacy and a couple of areas so this is difficult. not to lessen the situation in sudan. perhaps if there was a presidential special envoy, and noto said presidential, not a special envoy from the department of state, someone with the director era the president. i know there is so much going on for administration and resources which were challenged to even get to the other countries we're dealing with, but i think that would be the next step. in order to support secretary blink blinken. so he is i he is still there to there to come to
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the table. we need partners, so the table. we need partners, so the uk, perhaps those in the middle east would also be important to bring to the table and working very closely with the african union.— and working very closely with the african union. more from a anel in the african union. more from a panel in just — the african union. more from a panel in just a _ the african union. more from a panel in just a moment. - ——our meanwhile, the united nations refugee agency has strongly condemns widespread sexual violence against women and girls in areas controlled by the rsf paramilitary group in darfur, perpetrated by both sides in the conflict. the un says it's being used to, "subjugate, terrorise, break and punish women "and girls as a means "of punishing specific communities." more than 20 women and girls have been abducted and "chained and held in inhuman, "degrading slave—like conditions", according to the un. it says, sexual violence linked to the hostilities has impacted more than 100 people, though the real number is likely to be far higher. now, gender—based violence as a war tactic is a violation of international law. for more, i wasjoined earlier by eujin byun, global spokesperson
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for the un refugee agency. thank you so much for being here to speak with us. i want to ask about the situation facing women fleeing sudan, particularly those leaving the darfur region. what can you tell us about what is going on right now on the ground? from what we are — right now on the ground? from what we are hearing _ right now on the ground? from what we are hearing from - right now on the ground? from what we are hearing from the l what we are hearing from the women and girls, women and children in general, who are arriving from darfur region to chad,is arriving from darfur region to chad, is continuous and horror stories that there is experience in the country back in sudan. we can talk about the political violence in the traumatic experience they have. they witnessed family members dying in front of them and also the most importantly the violence that they experience, including rape and sexual assault and sexual exploitation. in darfur as well is on the way to chad, seeking safety and security. i
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safety and security. i understand you are recently on the ground in chad yourself. help us understand — so people are fleeing sudan, essentially looking for safety in chad and they are not finding it there either? ,, ., ., they are not finding it there either? ., , ., either? so, what is important is the situation _ either? so, what is important is the situation in _ either? so, what is important is the situation in chad - either? so, what is important is the situation in chad is - is the situation in chad is that almost 90% of people arriving in chad is women and children, a striking number and a shocking numberfor us. so the first that they are seeking safety and security because they experience violence and also they want to prevent those upcoming violence for them as well as the children. so the mother is bringing two or three children, walking days and nights to arrive in chad and then also that we have to remember that chad already hosting over 500,000 people, 500,000 refugees in the country. and now, since the conflict in the last year, april, another 500,000 people are seeking asylum in chad.
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that's where you have a lack of food, lack of services. so the situation you can imagine, the crowded centres and refugee camps that they are barely having minimum basic services. given those conditions you just described and given the risks of gender—based violence, how concerned are you and the united nations about what is taking place there? so united nations about what is taking place there?— united nations about what is taking place there? so what is happening _ taking place there? so what is happening inside _ taking place there? so what is happening inside sudan - taking place there? so what is happening inside sudan is - taking place there? so what is happening inside sudan is of l happening inside sudan is of course worrisome for us. the stories we are hearing from women and girls are notjust women and girls are notjust women and girls also men and boys are experiencing traumatic experience including sexual violence for boys. i personally experienced a lot of women telling me how they were raped, how they experienced those violence inside of sudan and on the move to checkpoint and a lot of people are not allowed
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to cross the border as well for a long time. then when they arrived in chad, they are also facing the difficulties of lack of services, lack of food because of funding of international communities not eating those people in need. so those are still facing the challenges and difficulties on top of the displays and then away from their family members, separating from family members and away from their home country. and away from their home country-— and away from their home country. and away from their home count .~ , ., , country. when it comes to these incidents of _ country. when it comes to these incidents of rape _ country. when it comes to these incidents of rape or _ country. when it comes to these incidents of rape or sexual- incidents of rape or sexual violence there, do we know who is behind these incidents? we had support that the rapid support services was involved? is that terms of what you're hearing?— is that terms of what you're hearin: ? ~ ., �* ., hearing? what we're hearing from the women _ hearing? what we're hearing from the women describe . hearing? what we're hearing - from the women describe sexual violence, authorities perpetrated by the fighter of course but notjust fighter, the criminal and the smuggler who existed before and now are abusing and exploiting women who are seeking safety and
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security. so all those perpetrators are actually on the inaudible and those unities and un agency really appeal that those perpetrators should be held accountable. in perpetrators should be held accountable.— accountable. in terms of accountability, - accountable. in terms of accountability, what - accountable. in terms of accountability, what are | accountable. in terms of. accountability, what are the chances that these victims could find any sort ofjustice? what is happening in sudan against women and children is absolute human violation and then... we heard about this happening notjust in sudan many conflicts around the world. and un centre—back humanitarian agencies continuously talking about this issue during the conflict and also witnessing happening and increasing risk of the security and safety of women and children. and of course those have to be held accountable and
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the world must not turn a blind eye to those atrocities and human rights violations. thank ou ve human rights violations. thank you very much _ human rights violations. thank you very much for _ human rights violations. thank you very much forjoining - human rights violations. thank you very much forjoining us i you very much forjoining us and sharing some of those accounts. so what could possible resolutions — or at least political stability — look like for sudan? for now, the focus appears to be on ending the battle between the army and the rsf paramilitary group before it spreads into a more complex and lengthy war. the bbc spoke to the former civilian prime minister of sudan, abdalla hamdok. he's leading a civilian coalition aimed at bringing peace to the country. hamdok believes military influence in sudan's government is the lasting lesson from this conflict — and that needs to change. he says the international community neglected his attempts to bring peace and stability to the country after the revolution that
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overthrew military ruler omar al—bashir in 2019. take a listen. we thought was such a great revolution in sudan we would be rewarded by lifting the sanction straightaway. it took us more than a year for the sanctions to be lifted, which was a game changer in the whole thing. had they been lifted earlier we would have been able to be integrated into the international community and address the issues of death, issues of opening up the country and all that. so i think it is indeed the story of neglect. for more on the situation, i spoke to sudan's ambassador to the us, mohammad idris. we appreciate you taking the time. it has been about ten months since violence broke out in sudan. went to sick complexed and now and is there any end in sight in your opinion?— any end in sight in your oinion? . , . any end in sight in your oinion? ., , ., opinion? that is what we hope. that any conflict _
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opinion? that is what we hope. that any conflict as _ opinion? that is what we hope. that any conflict as and. - opinion? that is what we hope. that any conflict as and. we . that any conflict as and. we feel the amount of the sufferings of sudanese people, the amount of agony the sudanese people are ensuring it leads to the practical and logical and, which should stop this war and stop the conflict and restore peace and stability in sudan. ,, ., ., , and restore peace and stability insudan. ,, ., ., , in sudan. sedan really has been ruled by some _ in sudan. sedan really has been ruled by some military - in sudan. sedan really has been ruled by some military or - ruled by some military or anotherfor most of ruled by some military or another for most of its history. what are the chances then that we could see a return to civilian rule like we saw a few years ago? it to civilian rule like we saw a few years ago?— to civilian rule like we saw a few years ago? it is the well, the will of — few years ago? it is the well, the will of the _ few years ago? it is the well, the will of the sudanese - few years ago? it is the well, i the will of the sudanese people and the will of the sudanese government. as you know, this current conflict is because of
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the insurgency which took place on 15th april 2023. otherwise we would have found the solution and we would have a civilian led government. but the rapid support is forces militia tried to seize power by force on that day and when the attempt was foiled then it has been transformed to violence, to atrocities, to instability, inside khartoum and outside khartoum, from khartoum, warsaw to darfur. as we usually say, numbers do not lie. the recent united nations estimates and records are talking about 9 million displaced persons in the sudan. imagine, 3.5 out of
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9 million are displaced from khartoum. 9 million are displaced from khartoum-— 9 million are displaced from khartoum. ~ ., ., ., ., khartoum. we also heard from a to- un khartoum. we also heard from a top un official _ khartoum. we also heard from a top un official this _ khartoum. we also heard from a top un official this week - khartoum. we also heard from a top un official this week that - top un official this week that the two warring generals have agreed to meet in switzerland to discuss humanitarian issues. if that meeting does happen, what are your expectations from diplomatic work on that front? we see that this is a mischaracterisation of what is happening in sudan. what is happening in sudan. what is happening in sudan is not a war between two generals on power. it is an insurgency by a paramilitary forces which was part of the sudanese armed forces, the national army of the sudan. d0 forces, the national army of the sudan-— forces, the national army of thesudan. , ., , the sudan. do you see any way of bringing _ the sudan. do you see any way of bringing those _ the sudan. do you see any way of bringing those two - of bringing those two figureheads to a table and bringing some sort of enter this war? maybe even temporary ceasefire? brute this war? maybe even temporary ceasefire? ~ ., ., ., ceasefire? we are... forum at any time _ ceasefire? we are... forum at any time the _ ceasefire? we are... forum at
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any time the other _ ceasefire? we are... forum at any time the other party - ceasefire? we are... forum at any time the other party is - any time the other party is ready to go and sit down and negotiate the forum is there. and these persons are there. the kingdom of saudi arabia, the united states of america, these are two sponsors of the forum. and at the forum we have two parties have agreed on a number of important issues. and number of important issues. and number of important issues. and number of elements nearly to exit from the civil objects, unhindered humanitarian assistance to the needy, restorable of public service institutions and the proper burial of the dead and other important element.- burial of the dead and other important element. thank you very much _ important element. thank you very much for— important element. thank you very much forjoining - important element. thank you very much forjoining us. - important element. thank you very much forjoining us. i- very much forjoining us. i thank you so much for caring.
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to share their thoughts on next steps for sudan, i brought back our panel: cindy courville, f=former us ambassador to the african union and former white house advisor on african affairs, and quscondy abdulshafi, who's a sudanese activist and researcher at peace direct. i want to look into the future now and of course with your experience as the ambassador to the african union, what role do you think regional partners, countries there near sudan can play in terms of trying to push the two sides at least towards temporary ceasefire? excellent . uestion. temporary ceasefire? excellent question. first _ temporary ceasefire? excellent question. first of _ temporary ceasefire? excellent question. first of all _ temporary ceasefire? excellent question. first of all the - question. first of all the african union is critical. it knows the players on the ground. it is important they use the sub regional like east africa community as well, should be a major player in this. already the generals have visited president khatami and other individuals along the way. but the african union needs the support of the united states, of other major powers,
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like china who are invested in the region. it is going to take what we call a coalition of the willing. what we call a coalition of the willina. ., ., f willing. how willing are they? some may — willing. how willing are they? some may need _ willing. how willing are they? some may need to _ willing. how willing are they? some may need to be - willing. how willing are they? | some may need to be brought willing. how willing are they? i some may need to be brought to the table, some may need to have their backs held to the table. so i think the united states with everything else on its plate, it is too important to neglect sudan.— its plate, it is too important to neglect sudan. and, briefly, with another _ to neglect sudan. and, briefly, with another minute _ to neglect sudan. and, briefly, with another minute left, - to neglect sudan. and, briefly, with another minute left, in - with another minute left, in terms of the people of sudan, what will it take and what are the chances this country could get back to civilian rule and restore democracy after so many years of turmoil and military rule? . ~ years of turmoil and military rule? ., ~' ,, years of turmoil and military rule? ., ,, ., ., rule? thank you and there are two different _ rule? thank you and there are two different issues _ rule? thank you and there are two different issues currently. one is — two different issues currently. one is the people's right to be alive _ one is the people's right to be alive and — one is the people's right to be alive and have access to aid. and — alive and have access to aid. and the _ alive and have access to aid. and the world will have to put itself — and the world will have to put itself together to end this collective punishment and not to wait— collective punishment and not to wait until there is a mass killing — to wait until there is a mass killing and genocide through hunger, _ killing and genocide through hunger, particularly darfur. i
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think— hunger, particularly darfur. i think it— hunger, particularly darfur. i think it needs a new mechanism, including — think it needs a new mechanism, including the us government has to have _ including the us government has to have somebody who really barks — to have somebody who really barks inside the fence. i'm in the white _ barks inside the fence. i'm in the white house, to really be able — the white house, to really be able to — the white house, to really be able to move inaudible in terms of the bigger diplomatic effort that needs to address — diplomatic effort that needs to address. ~ ., ., address. with regard to civilian government, i address. with regard to l civilian government, this address. with regard to i civilian government, this war did not start as a conflict between the civilian government, it was a war within the sector. it has to be seen in that light. that is it for a special on the war ensued and. stay tuned for more news and headlines coming up at the top of the hour. you can find more on our website at any time. i'm carl nasman in washington. thank you for watching. hello there. there's still plenty of standing water from the heavy rain on thursday coupled with a snow melt, of course. here's a flooded park in warwickshire as captured by one of our weather watchers.
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bright skies, but lots of water on the ground, and there are still a number of flood warnings in place across england and wales. the good news is it should be a much drier weekend of weather, but with low pressure still close by, we're still likely to see some showers and indeed some longer spells of rain here and there at times. now, you can see on the pressure chart here that warm front just pushing northwards across the north of scotland. this is where the colder air is being displaced to, but still some snow falling on the tops of the hills towards the far north of scotland as we head through the rest of the night. we'll still see temperatures here dip below freezing. but this is generally how we're starting off on saturday morning. it's a colder, drier start to the day across the south of england and wales. some patches of mist and fog here, some hill fog further north where we'll keep all of that low cloud in that now milder—feeling air. so still some strong, gusty winds across the far north of scotland. elsewhere, the winds are lighter, still some wintriness for caithness and sutherland. but further south, there'll be lots of cloud for northern ireland,
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though, northern england, much of england and wales. in fact, there will be some sunshine developing — watch out for some showers towards the west, maybe. and these will be the temperatures to end the afternoon. it's turned a lot milder now across scotland, 12 celsius in the south of england. low pressure approaches the far southwest, the winds will pick up here, some showers and some longer spells of rain just creeping into the south—east of england and east anglia as we head towards the end of the day on saturday. that area of low pressure is set to spin its way further northwards towards parts of eastern scotland as we head through the day on sunday. so it's always going to be cloudier towards eastern coastal areas with, again, some outbreaks of rain at times, a good scattering of showers further west, but also some brighter skies. the winds picking up and temperatures a little lower for many towards the south, but, of course, higherfurther north. now, as we head into monday, we're back to more northwesterly winds. the air is going to feel colder, and some of these showers could turn out to be a little wintry, particularly over the higher ground towards the north and the west, feeling a little chillier for most with a bit of added wind chill to factor in as well. but by the time we get
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to tuesday and wednesday, those temperatures will be picking up again with some milder air, an atlantic influence, and there will be some more showers in the forecast at times.
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voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme.
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saturday, october 7th, 2023. the day starts peacefully, normally. but as dawn breaks, a massacre unfolds. explosions first, the palestinian militant group hamas fires thousands of rockets into the communities of southern israel. the barrage provides cover for a terrifying, unprecedented second phase. allahu akbar! thousands of members of the group — designated a terrorist organisation by the uk, us and other countries — break through the perimeter fence and into israeli territory. they film as they stream through. some are on motorbikes. many more are on foot. and they begin to run. just a few miles away, hundreds of people have gathered at a music festival. as the rockets fly overhead,
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palestinian gunmen attack the party from several directions.

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