ugly spat in the was elected on. an ugly spat in the commons. , u, was elected on. an ugly spat in the commons. , ., ., ., ., ., commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that _ commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that was _ commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that was only _ commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that was only 9996 _ commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that was only 99% of - commons. defining a woman, although in fairness that was only 99% of the - in fairness that was only 99% of the hm _ in fairness that was only 99% of the hm gf— in fairness that was only 99% of the u-turn. . «a in fairness that was only 99% of the u-turn. ., ., in fairness that was only 99% of the u-turn. ., ~', ., ,._ ., u-turn. of all the weeks to say that when brianna's _ u-turn. of all the weeks to say that when brianna's mother— u-turn. of all the weeks to say that when brianna's mother is _ u-turn. of all the weeks to say that when brianna's mother is in - u-turn. of all the weeks to say that when brianna's mother is in this - when brianna's mother is in this chamben — when brianna's mother is in this chamber. shame. _ when brianna's mother is in this chamber. shame.— when brianna's mother is in this chamber. shame. such a clash, the couraue chamber. shame. such a clash, the courage and — chamber. shame. such a clash, the courage and compassion _ chamber. shame. such a clash, the courage and compassion of- chamber. shame. such a clash, the courage and compassion of brianna| courage and compassion of brianna ghey�*s man campaigning for young people. a broken promise from labour. no more the target of spending 28 billion a year to go green forfuture spending 28 billion a year to go green for future generations. it’s green for future generations. it�*s economically illiterate, environmentally irresponsible and political juju. environmentally irresponsible and politicaljuju. fix, environmentally irresponsible and politicaljuju-_ politicalju'u. a surge in evictions. — politicaljuju. a surge in evictions. the - politicaljuju. a surge in i evictions. the government politicaljuju. a surge in - evictions. the government is not politicaljuju. a surge in _ evictions. the government is not yet keeping its vows on housing. harder than ever to get a roof over your headif than ever to get a roof over your head if you are starting out. the landlord head if you are starting out. ire: landlord wanted to head if you are starting out. ire landlord wanted to get their property back. i wouldn't wish this situation on anybody. so property back. i wouldn't wish this situation on anybody.— situation on anybody. so we are askin: situation on anybody. so we are asking this _

situation on anybody. so we are asking this morning, _ situation on anybody. so we are asking this morning, are - situation on anybody. so we are asking this morning, are our. asking this morning, are our politicians listening to the concerns of the young? so, what are the tories really doing for the next generation? michael gove is here. how can labour boast about its green plans without the big price tag? its campaign chief pat mcfaddenjoins us, too. and as if there wasn't enough drama in politics, megastar ralph fiennes is here — bond's m, voldemort and now macbeth. is this a dagger which i see before me? morning, morning. my trio to chat through the next 60 minutes —

historian simon schama, the editor of the sun victoria newton and housing campaigner kwajo tweneboa. a very warm welcome to them, and a very warm welcome to you, too. let's start with the headlines. lots of the front pages have king charles gratitude for the public support since his cancer diagnosis. the mail on sunday has a different take claiming books have been written by artificial intelligence about his illness. the sunday times splashes with our guest this morning michael gove — claiming young people might turn away from democracy if they don't get the houses they need. with two by—elections this week, some tory mps have told the observer that their party has already surrendered to labour. the bbc website's featuring the foreign secretary david cameron's warning to israel against its planned offensive in rafah, where much of gaza's population is sheltering.

let's start with that story. simon, there is a sense that people are holding their breath, more than i million people are sheltering in rafah but the israelis seem intent on a big offensive there. yes, laura. on a big offensive there. yes, laura- it _ on a big offensive there. yes, laura- it is — on a big offensive there. yes, laura. it is a _ on a big offensive there. yes, laura. it is a cliff _ on a big offensive there. yes, laura. it is a cliff face - on a big offensive there. yes, i laura. it is a cliff face moment, really. we are talking about two absolutely traumatised populations, the israelis on one hand are increasingly desperate to have the hostages back and the terrible suffering that gazan palestinians have gone through. we're told by gershon baskin, i have to site his name, political activist with very good sources and also a journalist, that the issue with rafah now in particular is that the idf, the israeli army, suspects there are tunnels very close to and the egyptians say we have gone six

kilometres down and there are not and the israelis are sceptical of that. the issue for israel now is really a discussion with egypt. as you say, 1.7 million, more than half of an incredibly suffering gazan palestinian population is there. and egypt doesn't want a huge flow on its side. ., , ., ., , its side. there are so many competing _ its side. there are so many competing practice - its side. there are so many competing practice but - its side. there are so many competing practice but a i its side. there are so many| competing practice but a lot its side. there are so many . competing practice but a lot of people in this country look on with horror not sure what you think. what are your readers the making of what is happening? they are your readers the making of what is happening?— is happening? they 'ust wanted to sto - , the is happening? they 'ust wanted to stop. they want — is happening? they 'ust wanted to stop, they want aid — is happening? theyjust wanted to stop, they want aid to _ is happening? theyjust wanted to stop, they want aid to get - is happening? theyjust wanted to stop, they want aid to get in - is happening? theyjust wanted to stop, they want aid to get in and l stop, they want aid to get in and people _ stop, they want aid to get in and peorfle to — stop, they want aid to get in and people to get out. they haven't particularly taken a strong side either— particularly taken a strong side either way but theyjust want the violence — either way but theyjust want the violence to stop. we either way but they 'ust want the violence to stop.— violence to stop. we will talk to michael gove _ violence to stop. we will talk to michael gove and _ violence to stop. we will talk to michael gove and people - violence to stop. we will talk to michael gove and people to getj violence to stop. we will talk to - michael gove and people to get out. they haven't particularly taken a strong side either way but theyjust want the violence to stop. we will talk to michael gove in a second. j=kwajo, you have been campaigning hard on housing for a long time, how does the picture look? it is hard on housing for a long time, how does the picture look?— does the picture look? it is only caettin does the picture look? it is only getting worse. _ does the picture look? it is only getting worse, more _ does the picture look? it is only getting worse, more and - does the picture look? it is only getting worse, more and morel does the picture look? it is only - getting worse, more and more people are struggling — getting worse, more and more people are struggling and _ getting worse, more and more people are struggling and we _ getting worse, more and more people

are struggling and we know— getting worse, more and more people are struggling and we know where - getting worse, more and more people are struggling and we know where thej are struggling and we know where the housing _ are struggling and we know where the housing crisis— are struggling and we know where the housing crisis stems _ are struggling and we know where the housing crisis stems from, _ are struggling and we know where the housing crisis stems from, we - are struggling and we know where the housing crisis stems from, we know. housing crisis stems from, we know the majority— housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of— housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of people _ housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of people in _ housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of people in the - housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of people in the uk - housing crisis stems from, we know the majority of people in the uk are renting _ the majority of people in the uk are renting but— the majority of people in the uk are renting but we — the majority of people in the uk are renting but we also _ the majority of people in the uk are renting but we also know, - the majority of people in the uk are renting but we also know, we - the majority of people in the uk are renting but we also know, we havel renting but we also know, we have seen _ renting but we also know, we have seen the _ renting but we also know, we have seen the statistics _ renting but we also know, we have seen the statistics in _ renting but we also know, we have seen the statistics in the _ renting but we also know, we have seen the statistics in the last - renting but we also know, we have seen the statistics in the last few. seen the statistics in the last few days in— seen the statistics in the last few days in regards— seen the statistics in the last few days in regards no—fault - seen the statistics in the last few. days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 _ days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 handed _ days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 handed out— days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 handed out and _ days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 handed out and we - days in regards no—fault evictions, 30,000 handed out and we knowl days in regards no—fault evictions, . 30,000 handed out and we know we have some _ 30,000 handed out and we know we have some of— 30,000 handed out and we know we have some of the _ 30,000 handed out and we know we have some of the highest _ 30,000 handed out and we know we have some of the highest rents- 30,000 handed out and we know we have some of the highest rents in. have some of the highest rents in europe _ have some of the highest rents in europe and — have some of the highest rents in europe and on— have some of the highest rents in europe and on top _ have some of the highest rents in europe and on top of— have some of the highest rents in europe and on top of that - have some of the highest rents in europe and on top of that we - have some of the highest rents inj europe and on top of that we also know— europe and on top of that we also know that — europe and on top of that we also know that now— europe and on top of that we also know that now today _ europe and on top of that we also know that now today especially i europe and on top of that we also know that now today especially in j know that now today especially in places _ know that now today especially in places like — know that now today especially in places like london _ know that now today especially in places like london people - know that now today especially in places like london people are i places like london people are spending _ places like london people are spending on _ places like london people are spending on average - places like london people are spending on average about i places like london people are - spending on average about 40—50% of their income _ spending on average about 40—50% of their income and _ spending on average about 40—50% of their income and in— spending on average about 40—50% of their income and in some _ spending on average about 40—50% of their income and in some cases- spending on average about 40—50% of their income and in some cases morel their income and in some cases more on privately— their income and in some cases more on privately rented _ their income and in some cases more on privately rented in— their income and in some cases more on privately rented in comparison i their income and in some cases more on privately rented in comparison toi on privately rented in comparison to the 1980s _ on privately rented in comparison to the 1980s when _ on privately rented in comparison to the 19805 when it _ on privately rented in comparison to the 19805 when it was _ on privately rented in comparison to the 19805 when it was only - on privately rented in comparison to the 19805 when it was only 20—30%| the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it— the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is— the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is even— the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is even more _ the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is even more bleak— the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is even more bleak in- the 19805 when it was only 20—30% and it is even more bleak in the i and it is even more bleak in the social— and it is even more bleak in the social housing _ and it is even more bleak in the social housing sector— and it is even more bleak in the social housing sector at - and it is even more bleak in the social housing sector at the i and it is even more bleak in the i social housing sector at the moment. plenty— social housing sector at the moment. plenty to _ social housing sector at the moment. plenty to get — social housing sector at the moment. plenty to get into _ social housing sector at the moment. plenty to get into with _ social housing sector at the moment. plenty to get into with michael - social housing sector at the moment. plenty to get into with michael gove i plenty to get into with michael gove which we will do in a second. first of all, let's go back in time. have a listen to this lot. the dream of a property—owning democracy is alive, and we will help you fulfil it. applause reigniting home ownership in britain once again. applause we will enable more young people everywhere to share the _ dream of home—ownership — the great ambition of the human race. -

that dream has become a housing nightmare for too many people as kwajo was just telling us. the housing secretary, michael gove said himself the system is broken not long ago. he's here. you said not long ago yourself the system is broken but let's start by giving the audience a real picture of what is going on with some statistics. you can see how much the prospect of owning your own home has changed. earnings have doubled and house prices have increased four and a half times. then ten years ago if you look at our next graphic we can show people the kind of impact that has had on social housing. social housing, 184,000 of them have been lost since between 2012 and 2022 while the conservatives have been in charge, resulting in such huge pressure being put on. if you look at the next set of statistics that has meant we have more and more evictions. just last year 6000, in

2022, rather command last year a significant increase to more than 9000 people losing their rented homes when they had done nothing wrong, the so—called no—fault evictions. the knock—on from that temporary accommodation where people end is a huge increase, 2013, not long after the conservatives took charge, 55,000, now 2020, more than 100,000 people in temporary accommodation. michael gove, looking at that picture, it is bleak. you yourself said the system is broken, so he broke it? mi yourself said the system is broken, so he broke it?— so he broke it? all of the areas you have drawn — so he broke it? all of the areas you have drawn attention _ so he broke it? all of the areas you have drawn attention to _ so he broke it? all of the areas you have drawn attention to are - so he broke it? all of the areas you have drawn attention to are areas l have drawn attention to are areas where we are taking action now. we are taking action to increase the supply of homes overall and it is important to stress that there have been 2.5 million homes built since 2010 and that if you look over the last 13 years the four years with the highest number of new homes was 2019. ~ ., , the highest number of new homes was

2019. . ., , ,_ the highest number of new homes was 2019-— there i 2019. who broke the system? there are a variety — 2019. who broke the system? there are a variety of different _ 2019. who broke the system? there are a variety of different factors i are a variety of different factors that have driven the challenges that we face. one has been the pressure particularly in our cities. sometimes as a result of overseas investment but certainly as a result of population growth. the other thing has been the need to ensure that we have a pipeline of new homes and that's why we are taking action this week, and we already have been in preceding months, to increase the supply, particularly in our cities where the demand is greatest. and our third factor which i think is important to bear in mind as well, is access to mortgage finance. in the wake of the 2008 financial crash, for entirely understandable reasons, the rules were tightened up on lending overall and that has had an impact on people's capacity to buy. briefly there were two other things you mentioned, social homes, critically important. and the private rented sector where we are taking action on both. you private rented sector where we are taking action on both.— taking action on both. you have identified a _

taking action on both. you have identified a growing _ taking action on both. you have| identified a growing population, taking action on both. you have i identified a growing population, not enough being built and a squeeze on mortgage finance as the reasons. we will talk later perhaps whether the people who have been in charge for so long presiding over this might have some responsibility, too. at}. of have some responsibility, too. 0, of course. have some responsibility, too. 0, of course- let's — have some responsibility, too. 0, of course. let's look at _ have some responsibility, too. 0, of course. let's look at one _ have some responsibility, too. 0, of course. let's look at one of - have some responsibility, too. 0, of course. let's look at one of the i course. let's look at one of the specifics. _ course. let's look at one of the specifics. in — course. let's look at one of the specifics, in 2019 _ course. let's look at one of the specifics, in 2019 in _ course. let's look at one of the specifics, in 2019 in your- course. let's look at one of the i specifics, in 2019 in your manifesto you promised you would get rid of what is called section 21 where landlords can evict tenants for no reason. it hasn't happened yet. can you guarantee the 11 million renters in this country that you will end this before the general election? yes, we have a bill, it has gone through it stages in the house of commons and that bill does a number of things to help people in the private rented sector, including ending no—fault evictions. why does that matter, some might ask stopped is the case that there are a small minority of unscrupulous landlords who use the threat of eviction either to jack up rents or to silence people who are complaining about the quality of their homes. it is important that we deal with that abuse because the vast majority of landlords do a greatjob and if you

need a healthy private rented centre as part of a balanced housing economy. as part of a balanced housing economy-— as part of a balanced housing econom . ., ., , . , economy. you are explicitly saying this morning _ economy. you are explicitly saying this morning that _ economy. you are explicitly saying this morning that practice - economy. you are explicitly saying this morning that practice will i economy. you are explicitly saying this morning that practice will be l this morning that practice will be banned, it will not be allowed to happen before the next general election? . . . happen before the next general election? ., , ., , election? that is what it says in the bill, the _ election? that is what it says in the bill, the bill _ election? that is what it says in the bill, the bill end _ election? that is what it says in the bill, the bill end section i election? that is what it says in the bill, the bill end section 21. | the bill, the bill end section 21. there is a different factor here because previously you have said the courts might not be able to cope so we might bring in a new law but it might still happen because the courts are not ready. i ask you again, to be really explicit, will this practice have ended by the time of the next general election? irate of the next general election? we will have of the next general election? e will have outlawed it and we will have put the money into the courts in order to ensure that they can enforce that.— in order to ensure that they can enforce that. that's very explicit and we have _ enforce that. that's very explicit and we have that _ enforce that. that's very explicit and we have that on _ enforce that. that's very explicit and we have that on the - enforce that. that's very explicit and we have that on the record. | and we have that on the record. let's talk about the huge rise in the number of people in temporary housing. we have shown that to our viewers this morning. it is really, really stark. is it acceptable to have that many people in temporary accommodation in one of the richest countries in the world? h0. accommodation in one of the richest countries in the world?— countries in the world? no, it is not and that _ countries in the world? no, it is not and that is _ countries in the world? no, it is not and that is why _ countries in the world? no, it is not and that is why we - countries in the world? no, it is

not and that is why we are i countries in the world? no, it is| not and that is why we are taking action. we have introduced the local authority housing fund which is money that central government gives to councils specifically to acquire new properties to help to deal with this challenge. and also, this week, we are extending loans to housing associations, the people who provide homes for social rent, in order to ensure that there can be at least another 20,000 new social homes. that's on top of the £11.5 billion in the affordable homes programme which is grant money which goes direct to local authorities and housing associations to provide more homes. flan housing associations to provide more homes. . , ., housing associations to provide more homes. ., , ., _, housing associations to provide more homes. ., ., housing associations to provide more homes. . ., ., homes. can you commit today that you will have got — homes. can you commit today that you will have got the _ homes. can you commit today that you will have got the numbers _ homes. can you commit today that you will have got the numbers of _ homes. can you commit today that you will have got the numbers of people i will have got the numbers of people in temporary accommodation down before the election? h0. in temporary accommodation down before the election?— before the election? no, i can't. i'm determined _ before the election? no, i can't. i'm determined that _ before the election? no, i can't. i'm determined that we - before the election? no, i can't. i'm determined that we should l before the election? no, i can't. | i'm determined that we should do before the election? no, i can't. i i'm determined that we should do so but the pressures, some of which we mentioned earlier, are significant. we are absolutely determined to do everything we can but it is a big issue and it is an issue which is also driven by, as we mentioned earlier, two things. one is the flow

of population changes in our country, and there are a variety of different population changes. and the second thing is the tough circumstances that people who are facing economic difficulties facing this country. that's why it is vitally important that we stick to our economic plan which will ensure notjust our economic plan which will ensure not just that the tax burden our economic plan which will ensure notjust that the tax burden is lowered but also that we continue to provide support for those most in need. provide support for those most in need, , .,, provide support for those most in need. , ., need. some people might also say it is vitally important _ need. some people might also say it is vitally important that _ need. some people might also say it is vitally important that you - need. some people might also say it is vitally important that you stick i is vitally important that you stick to your plan by having the same people in charge of it. there have been 16 housing ministers in a short succession of years. it is impossible to imagine that there has not been part of the problem here, simply the government has in focused enough on this issue and hasn't gripped it. i enough on this issue and hasn't gripped it-_ gripped it. i think that that is a cateuo gripped it. i think that that is a category error _ gripped it. i think that that is a category error because i gripped it. i think that that is a | category error because actually gripped it. i think that that is a i category error because actually if you look at the way in which policy has been delivered, then, as i mentioned, we are on the verge of

announcing 1 million homes, additional homes having been built since 2019. it is the case if you look as i mentioned over the last three decades the four years with the biggest number of new homes have been since 2019.— been since 2019. forgive me, secretary _ been since 2019. forgive me, secretary of _ been since 2019. forgive me, secretary of state, _ been since 2019. forgive me, secretary of state, 1 - been since 2019. forgive me, secretary of state, 1 million l secretary of state, 1 million homes in five years is running less than your target which is 300,000 a year. your argument is as the change of individual in one role affected the trajectory? fiend individual in one role affected the tra'ecto ? �* , ., individual in one role affected the tra'ecto ? . ., individual in one role affected the tra'ecto ? �* ., individual in one role affected the tra'ecto ? . ., ., tra'ectory? and you are saying not. i trajectory? and you are saying not. i ho -e the trajectory? and you are saying not. i hope the position _ trajectory? and you are saying not. i hope the position is _ trajectory? and you are saying not. i hope the position is clear which i i hope the position is clear which is that we have managed to deliver more homes than our predecessors but we're not patting ourselves on the back, its we're not patting ourselves on the back, it'sjust we're not patting ourselves on the back, its just to we're not patting ourselves on the back, it'sjust to put we're not patting ourselves on the back, its just to put that out there but we are saying we need to go further so it is an honest admission of the scale of the problem but also an honest acknowledgement that we have managed to increase the number of homes and we need to do more. the population has been increasing _ we need to do more. the population has been increasing in _ we need to do more. the population has been increasing in the _ we need to do more. the population has been increasing in the numbers| has been increasing in the numbers

of people waiting for social housing which we would have called council housing in years gone by has gone up and up and these are notjust numbers, these are people whose lives feel like they are on hold, they are stuck. one of our viewers wants you to explain to her why she has been stuck on a waiting list along with more than 1 has been stuck on a waiting list along with more than1 million has been stuck on a waiting list along with more than 1 million other people for social housing and stuck in temporary accommodation for six years. you can boast about the number of homes you have built but can you explain to her why the conservatives have allowed that to happen? i conservatives have allowed that to ha en? ., conservatives have allowed that to hauen? ., , happen? i would never boast but i think it is important _ happen? i would never boast but i think it is important to _ happen? i would never boast but i think it is important to stress i happen? i would never boast but i | think it is important to stress what it is we have been doing. it! think it is important to stress what it is we have been doing.— it is we have been doing. i'd like ou to it is we have been doing. i'd like you to explain — it is we have been doing. i'd like you to explain to _ it is we have been doing. i'd like you to explain to our— it is we have been doing. i'd like you to explain to our viewer i you to explain to our viewer sian why she has been waiting six years. i don't know where sian lives, do share the details with me sol i don't know where sian lives, do share the details with me so i can make sure we can do everything we can to help her. more broadly, we need to deliver more homes. i have run through some of the things we have been doing in order to do that. let me make one important point will

stop last year we introduced legislation that would unlock 100,000 new homes, social homes, homes to rent and homes to buy. i brought forward that legislation and the opposition voted against it. so if we are looking for culpability in the plane, one of the questions we have to ask is why, when we could have to ask is why, when we could have had 100,000 additional homes, did labour vote to stop that? that's because we have a plan to deal with this very important question and labour have no plan at all. michael gove, ithink_ labour have no plan at all. michael gove, i think for— labour have no plan at all. michael gove, i think for people _ labour have no plan at all. michael gove, i think for people listening i gove, i think for people listening to you this morning, it is very clear that you acknowledge that there is a significant problem with housing in this country. that's very clear, that comes across absolutely clearly. but it is also interesting that you sound almost like a housing campaign are saying this isn't good enough, that doesn't work over there, yes, is broken, when in actualfact you have been there, yes, is broken, when in actual fact you have been somebody who has been a minister in successive conservative governments

over a period of 14 years when the situation has got and worse and worse. you even told the sunday times in an interview that has been published today you were worried that if young people don't get the homes they need they might abandon democracy. aren't you worried that if young people don't get the homes they need they are abandoning the conservative party? it’s they need they are abandoning the conservative party?— conservative party? it's not about -a conservative party? it's not about party politics. _ conservative party? it's not about party politics. it — conservative party? it's not about party politics. it is _ conservative party? it's not about party politics, it is about - conservative party? it's not about party politics, it is about making i party politics, it is about making sure that everyone in this country has a stake in society and that people have a warm, safe and decent home. let me mention three things briefly. home. let me mention three things briefl . �* , home. let me mention three things briefly- ---— briefly. briefly, sunday times, ou turn briefly. briefly, sunday times, you turn this _ briefly. briefly, sunday times, you turn this into _ briefly. briefly, sunday times, you turn this into an _ briefly. briefly, sunday times, you turn this into an issue i briefly. briefly, sunday times, you turn this into an issue of- you turn this into an issue of saying our democracy is injeopardy if we don't do this and you pointed the finger of blame at the opposition. you have been in charge for 14 years. some people listening this morning might think it is a machine was to be pointing the finger at others for this. i'v e i've mentioned one specific example where we were taking forward proposals in orderfor a change to be made. we needed the support of

labour, that support wasn't forthcoming. they need to be held accountable for that as you're holding me accountable for the last 14 years. as i mentioned, let's look at the record in context. my approach is always to say we need to do more, we need to do better in every area of government. and i think it's also important that we look at what we have done and ask ourselves what more can be done in order to do what is required? and it's notjust, as kwajo was mentioning, the number of new homes we need but the quality. some of the resources we give to people who provide housing have had to be spent on improving the quality of homes that were built years ago and are now reaching the end of their lives and there are people living with damp, mould and terrific conditions. so, we have arrived at a moment in history where we need to spend not just on quantity but on quality as

well. that is an important lesson because when we were building significant numbers of homes in the 50s and 60s they were not of the quality required, so that's why i've placed an emphasis on making sure we improve conditions as well as delivering more homes. share improve conditions as well as delivering more homes. are you confident that _ delivering more homes. are you confident that the _ delivering more homes. are you confident that the chancellor i delivering more homes. are you| confident that the chancellor will be persuaded to give you more money to spend on housing in the budget? well, i'm doing everything i can, i mean, short of laying siege to his own home, every day i sent him a note or a message emphasising the importance of doing more to unlock housing money. he gets it. jeremy hunt absolutely appreciates the importance of supporting the next generation and the critical thing here is all of the progress that we need to make would be put at risk if we had a labour party that has no plan for economic growth... imilli we had a labour party that has no plan for economic growth... will be talkin: to plan for economic growth... will be talking to labour _ plan for economic growth... will be talking to labour later. _ plan for economic growth... will be talking to labour later. and i plan for economic growth... will be talking to labour later. and this i

talking to labour later. and this week has made _ talking to labour later. and this week has made another- talking to labour later. and this i week has made another underfunded pledge which would require tax to increase borrowing to go out. imilli increase borrowing to go out. will discuss that _ increase borrowing to go out. will discuss that with labour later in the programme. the foreign secretary has made plain the government concern about the israelis' expected invasion into rafah. what you say to the israelis? i invasion into rafah. what you say to the israelis?— the israelis? i couldn't put things better than _ the israelis? i couldn't put things better than the _ the israelis? i couldn't put things better than the foreign _ the israelis? i couldn't put things better than the foreign secretary has and i think simon sharma explained the nature of the situation. we need to make sure that the people taken hostage by hamas return to their families. the events on the october the 7th with a worse loss ofjewish life since the holocaust and horrific pogrom and my heart grieves for israel and what it's had to endure. at the same time while it is right to deal with that terrorist threat, we know that the palestinian population has been

suffering and what we want to see is a sustainable ceasefire and that means an opportunity both to make sure that there is an end to hamas terrorism but also we aid and support the palestinian people that they need and deserve.— support the palestinian people that they need and deserve. thank you for talkin: to they need and deserve. thank you for talking to us — they need and deserve. thank you for talking to us this _ they need and deserve. thank you for talking to us this morning. _ let me know what you think. email us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk or on x or instagram, you can use #bbclaurak. we do read them all so keep them coming. sometimes you have very good ideas indeed for questions. kwajo, you've been meeting michael gove to talk about housing. he did there give what sounded like a cast—iron guarantee that no fault elections will be gone by the end of the year. it's interesting because i was going to say earlier on, people are asking where is this renters reform bill. the charities and campaign groups are asking where it is. it's been

delayed and we are waiting for months and people being evicted from their homes. many of those people will be turning to local authorities. i had some questions in regards to social housing. last year we knocked down and sold off three times the amount of social homes than reconstructed and built and that's been a year trend. we've got 1.4 million people on the waiting list, 139 thousand homeless kids. 300 and 29,000 people died while on the waiting list. there is a prediction at 2 billion will be spent on temporary accommodation this year. that shows the scale of theissue this year. that shows the scale of the issue and i think will surpass the issue and i think will surpass the figure because of how desperate the figure because of how desperate the situation is. he the figure because of how desperate the situation is.— the situation is. he saying actually we've not the situation is. he saying actually we've got a _ the situation is. he saying actually we've got a good _ the situation is. he saying actually we've got a good record _ the situation is. he saying actually we've got a good record in i the situation is. he saying actually we've got a good record in some i we've got a good record in some areas, does persuade you? it’s we've got a good record in some areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some — areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some of _ areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some of those _ areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some of those points i areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some of those points but - areas, does persuade you? it's great to hear some of those points but we| to hear some of those points but we have to remember they have been in government and are in charge with

tackling this crisis. we didn't touch upon right to buy, the fact we are selling off council homes when we simply don't have enough as it is but were still allowing that to happen. i think any serious government would look at the right to buy scheme and think if you're serious about tackling this crisis we will suspend it or change it so we will suspend it or change it so we don't continue selling off social homes. ,, ., ., we don't continue selling off social homes. ,, ., . , ., ., ~ ., homes. simon, what did you make of michael gove? _ homes. simon, what did you make of michael gove? listening _ homes. simon, what did you make of michael gove? listening to _ homes. simon, what did you make of michael gove? listening to kwajo - michael gove? listening to kwajo this sounds of a real moment of angst for a generation. my impression _ angst for a generation. my impression was that he was charming and eloquent and there are two possible — and eloquent and there are two possible oppositions in the election, the notion that if you fessed — election, the notion that if you fessed up _ election, the notion that if you fessed up really did what we can, did better— fessed up really did what we can, did better than the other but can do better_ did better than the other but can do better and _ did better than the other but can do better and then you have the actual opposition — better and then you have the actual opposition. i think listening to kwajo, — opposition. i think listening to kwajo, i— opposition. i think listening to kwajo, i think what has not happened until recently is that we are

absolutely at a terrifying point. i mean. _ absolutely at a terrifying point. i mean, 139,000 homeless kids. we worry— mean, 139,000 homeless kids. we worry constantly every day about a rise in _ worry constantly every day about a rise in violent crime and we worry about_ rise in violent crime and we worry about the — rise in violent crime and we worry about the stability and fights breaking out on transport and so on and it— breaking out on transport and so on and it has_ breaking out on transport and so on and it has to — breaking out on transport and so on and it has to be related to people's sense _ and it has to be related to people's sense of— and it has to be related to people's sense of despair that the old idea that if— sense of despair that the old idea that if you — sense of despair that the old idea that if you buckle down and pass your exams and upward social mobility, _ your exams and upward social mobility, they'll be a prize at the end of— mobility, they'll be a prize at the end of it. — mobility, they'll be a prize at the end of it, the security of a home. but increasingly as a fantasy where we are _ but increasingly as a fantasy where we are now. | but increasingly as a fantasy where we are "ow-— but increasingly as a fantasy where we are now— we are now. i think housing will definitely be — we are now. i think housing will definitely be a _ we are now. i think housing will definitely be a big _ we are now. i think housing will definitely be a big issue - we are now. i think housing will definitely be a big issue in - we are now. i think housing will definitely be a big issue in this| definitely be a big issue in this election in a way it hasn't been for a long time. victoria, let's talk about the king, lots of coverage this morning in the papers about his message to the public last night thanking them for messages of support since his diagnosis. what is the challenge of trying to cover

this while giving a degree of privacy to one of the most prominent people in the country? i privacy to one of the most prominent people in the country?— people in the country? i think the 've people in the country? i think they've handled _ people in the country? i think they've handled it _ people in the country? i think they've handled it amazingly l people in the country? i think - they've handled it amazingly well. they gave us lots of background information, they had answered a lot of questions in a special document and it's interesting how much more open they've been none with the queen. when the queen went into hospital they told us nothing whereas this time the king has been adamant he wants to be a campaigner, he wants to be an influencer and i think once he got through his treatment he'll tell us exactly what it was and will see himself as having this amazing platform to do good. it’s having this amazing platform to do aood. �* , , having this amazing platform to do iood, �* , , ., having this amazing platform to do aood. �* , , ., , ., good. it's been a deliberate decision then? _ good. it's been a deliberate decision then? definitely. l good. it's been a deliberate decision then? definitely. i| good. it's been a deliberate - decision then? definitely. ithink the reason _ decision then? definitely. ithink the reason behind _ decision then? definitely. ithink the reason behind him _ decision then? definitely. ithink the reason behind him not - decision then? definitely. ithink the reason behind him not sing l the reason behind him not sing precisely what type of cancer he has is because he wants to feel inclusive to all cancer sufferers handle relatives. so, i think we'll see a different type of king when he comes out the other side hopefully. is a historian what have you thought?—

is a historian what have you thouaht? v, , , ,, thought? it's been very impressive, i have to thought? it's been very impressive, i have to say- _ thought? it's been very impressive, i have to say. as _ thought? it's been very impressive, i have to say. as a _ thought? it's been very impressive, i have to say. as a historian, - thought? it's been very impressive, i have to say. as a historian, there l i have to say. as a historian, there was this— i have to say. as a historian, there was this theory in the middle ages, we already— was this theory in the middle ages, we already have a breakfast? that talked _ we already have a breakfast? that talked about the monarchy being two different _ talked about the monarchy being two different types of body, the body politic _ different types of body, the body politic in — different types of body, the body politic in the body natural. they were _ politic in the body natural. they were to — politic in the body natural. they were to he _ politic in the body natural. they were to be kept absolutely separate and i were to be kept absolutely separate and i am _ were to be kept absolutely separate and i am old enough to remember the serious— and i am old enough to remember the serious illness of george vi in 1951 — serious illness of george vi in 1951. because actually we were only allowed _ 1951. because actually we were only allowed to — 1951. because actually we were only allowed to know the monarchy in its ceremoniat— allowed to know the monarchy in its ceremonial presence, we never imagined — ceremonial presence, we never imagined we would ever know what was --oin imagined we would ever know what was going on— imagined we would ever know what was going on with the king's body naturat — going on with the king's body natural. now we have a situation that sparsely different where it's possible — that sparsely different where it's possible for the monarchy as an institution — possible for the monarchy as an institution to benefit from transparency, even about health, which _ transparency, even about health, which concerns are so many people. so, which concerns are so many people. so. this— which concerns are so many people. so. this is— which concerns are so many people. so. this is a — which concerns are so many people. so, this is a very impressively,

understanding... it's an issue for the psychology of the nation and what _ the psychology of the nation and what the — the psychology of the nation and what the king has done i think is press _ what the king has done i think is press the — what the king has done i think is press the affection trigger, which is enormous, about his own very up and down _ is enormous, about his own very up and down personal history. as victoria — and down personal history. as victoria was saying, the monarchy will come — victoria was saying, the monarchy will come out, as an institution, will come out, as an institution, will come — will come out, as an institution, will come out, as an institution, will come out stronger.- will come out, as an institution, will come out stronger. there are still rocky relationships _ will come out stronger. there are still rocky relationships we - will come out stronger. there are still rocky relationships we knowl will come out stronger. there are l still rocky relationships we know in the royalfamily, prince harry flew in this week and disappeared quickly. he also settled his legal action against the daily mirror and its fight against newspapers goes on. there's also case against news uk and we can't go into legal details but can you reassure viewers that the practices we've heard about, the practices prince harry has complained about, have those come to an end and don't happen any more? ' :: :: ' come to an end and don't happen any more? ' i: i: , ., come to an end and don't happen any more? ' i: if ., come to an end and don't happen any more? ' i: in ., ., more? 100%. i cannot comment on onauoin more? 100%. i cannot comment on ongoing cases — more? 10096. i cannot comment on ongoing cases but _ more? 10096. i cannot comment on ongoing cases but i've _ more? 10096. i cannot comment on ongoing cases but i've been - more? 10096. i cannot comment on ongoing cases but i've been an - ongoing cases but i've been an editorforfour ongoing cases but i've been an editor for four years ongoing cases but i've been an

editorforfour years and ongoing cases but i've been an editor for four years and i've ongoing cases but i've been an editorforfour years and i've never covered stories on prince harry. it's 100% not covered stories on prince harry. it's100% not what happens today. has prince harry still got the right to be this cross with how the press behaved? i to be this cross with how the press behaved? ., �* , ~' to be this cross with how the press behaved? ., �* , ~ , behaved? i don't but i think his cross with _ behaved? i don't but i think his cross with lots _ behaved? i don't but i think his cross with lots of _ behaved? i don't but i think his cross with lots of people. - behaved? i don't but i think his cross with lots of people. he'sl cross with lots of people. he's really cross with the courtiers, his brother, his father, he is angry with the world and it's a shame that he still bears so much anger despite all that therapy. i thought it was brilliantly flew over to see his father, despite their very difficult relationship. reason to feel optimistic that they could perhaps repair that which i think our readers certainly want. they want the whole family back together and i thought it was great of harry that he did what any normal person would have done and got straight on a plane i did when i got the same call, ijumped on the plane even though my father said don't bother. well done harry and the king for taking the time to see him from his busy schedule. we know he doesn't like changing that diary. but they

did. so this is a reason for hope. kwajo, we are talking about the difference between generations. do you think people your age are following this as closely as may be simon and victoria and people my age have been? . v simon and victoria and people my age have been? ., �*, ., , have been? that's an interesting cuestion. have been? that's an interesting question- i— have been? that's an interesting question. i don't _ have been? that's an interesting question. i don't think _ have been? that's an interesting question. i don't think so - have been? that's an interesting question. i don't think so as - question. idon't think so as closely— question. i don't think so as closely although i think everyone is aware _ closely although i think everyone is aware regardless of age. i lost my dad to— aware regardless of age. i lost my dad to cancer and i think for anyone regardless — dad to cancer and i think for anyone regardless of your background, anyone — regardless of your background, anyone that's been through that process— anyone that's been through that process with a family member or themselves, they know how much of a difficult _ themselves, they know how much of a difficult time it is. i think what i would _ difficult time it is. i think what i would like — difficult time it is. i think what i would like to see is a spotlight on the poor— would like to see is a spotlight on the poor state of cancer treatment in this— the poor state of cancer treatment in this country and the fact that there's— in this country and the fact that there's many people out there diagnosed with cancer. luckily the kin- diagnosed with cancer. luckily the king is— diagnosed with cancer. luckily the king is receiving treatment but for many— king is receiving treatment but for many they— king is receiving treatment but for many they have to wait weeks if not months _ many they have to wait weeks if not months to _ many they have to wait weeks if not months to start treatment and for some _ months to start treatment and for some people that can be a death sentence — some people that can be a death sentence. so, there has to be an emphasis — sentence. so, there has to be an emphasis on that of the back of this

means _ emphasis on that of the back of this means. we — emphasis on that of the back of this means. ~ ~ ., ., ., , ., , means. we know that lots more people have been searching _ means. we know that lots more people have been searching and _ means. we know that lots more people have been searching and finding - have been searching and finding information. let's talk briefly, simon, about concern about health conditions across the atlantic. no one could have missed the stories about president biden in the assessment of whether his memory is “p assessment of whether his memory is up to scratch. what you make of all of that? i up to scratch. what you make of all of that? ., �* , ., of that? i mean, it's an extraordinary _ of that? i mean, it's ani extraordinary situation. of that? i mean, it's an - extraordinary situation. the of that? i mean, it's an _ extraordinary situation. the biden government, after the horrific fiasco of the exit from afghanistan and setting aside the real problem of the southern border which nobody has any idea how to deal with, other than that this has been one of the most successful administrations since the war. the american economy is going gangbusters, highest growth rate in the g7, lowest unemployment and inflation down almost below 3%. and yet, biden's

journalists have been dancing around but it's obviously the h problem. he's been running the government effectively —— the age problem. and yet it's part of the job to be president, to communicate effectively, to get to the end of your sentences, to remember that sisi is not the president of mexico but the president of egypt. now there is this hair on fire panic about the democrats, i saw the phrase, take the car keys away from grandpa. this is very interesting but very troubling situation. never mind about whether he is right to stand, or indeed, i mean, what is going on in the national security council right now? it is very troubling. b.

council right now? it is very troubling-— council right now? it is very troublina. �* �* , ., . troubling. a biden trump rematch miaht be troubling. a biden trump rematch might be unusual... _ troubling. a biden trump rematch might be unusual... unhinged - troubling. a biden trump rematch i might be unusual... unhinged versus the well-meaning _ might be unusual... unhinged versus the well-meaning elderly! _ might be unusual... unhinged versus the well-meaning elderly! what - might be unusual... unhinged versus the well-meaning elderly! what a - the well—meaning elderly! what a choice! aren't we lucky to be in britain. ii choice! aren't we lucky to be in britain. , , , britain. if their supporters were here they will challenge - britain. if their supporters were here they will challenge your i here they will challenge your description but thank you all three for now. ambition, power, plotting — we have stopped talking about the conservatives i promise, time instead to talk to one of our most famous actors — voldemort to a generation of kids. m to legions of bond fans. and now, as one of the most respected actors of his generation, macbeth. ralph fiennes is with us in the studio this morning. he's taking on the role not in the plush theatres of the west end, but in warehouses around the country. the production's now started in london. have a look at this. is this a dagger which i see before me? the handle toward my hand. come,

let me clutch thee.— let me clutch thee. ralph fiennes is in the studio — let me clutch thee. ralph fiennes is in the studio with _ let me clutch thee. ralph fiennes is in the studio with me _ let me clutch thee. ralph fiennes is in the studio with me this _ let me clutch thee. ralph fiennes is in the studio with me this morning. | in the studio with me this morning. a warm welcome. macbeth was performed over 400 years ago but do you think the story of a tyrant, ruthless ambition and violence has a lesson for us now? i ruthless ambition and violence has a lesson for us now?— lesson for us now? i think all of shakespeare's _ lesson for us now? i think all of shakespeare's plays _ lesson for us now? i think all of shakespeare's plays have - lesson for us now? i think all of. shakespeare's plays have lessons lesson for us now? i think all of- shakespeare's plays have lessons for us now and can connect to a modern audience but macbeth particularly, i think we are surrounded and we have present in the world autocratic leaders who use murderous techniques, murderous ways to achieve their ends. and in this production of macbeth we set it in a modern setting, in a war zone. i think we were keen that myself, sam gordon, food director, and plays lady macbeth, we wanted it to connect with modern audiences and provoke a recognition of certain circumstances in the world today. you're performing it in different

circumstances, a warehouse in liverpool, you are in the dockyard summit in london you are in canary wharf, and out in a big aircraft hangar. what is the point in doing it there rather than people sitting in a comfy red chair? i it there rather than people sitting in a comfy red chair?— it there rather than people sitting in a comfy red chair? i have always loved myself _ in a comfy red chair? i have always loved myself going _ in a comfy red chair? i have always loved myself going as _ in a comfy red chair? i have always loved myself going as an _ in a comfy red chair? i have always loved myself going as an audience| loved myself going as an audience member to site—specific theatre. it's a bit of an adventure, you go a different way to a place you don't know and already you are apprehensive and anticipating something different. i think audiences get in their car, they go somewhere they don't know, warehouse they don't know and the way we have done it with the semi—immersive entrance where you pass a blasted landscape, a war—torn landscape with a burning car and tyres and rubble from buildings, already that gives them a flavour of the atmosphere we are trying to create.— are trying to create. trying to put eo - le are trying to create. trying to put --eole on are trying to create. trying to put people on edge — are trying to create. trying to put people on edge almost? - are trying to create. trying to put people on edge almost? yes, - are trying to create. trying to put people on edge almost? yes, we| are trying to create. trying to put - people on edge almost? yes, we have some other — people on edge almost? yes, we have some other actors _ people on edge almost? yes, we have some other actors dressed _ people on edge almost? yes, we have some other actors dressed as - some other actors dressed as soldiers and moving around and interacting with the audience as they come in and it builds an intensity of atmosphere and sets up a feeling of the world we are going

to take them into. you a feeling of the world we are going to take them into.— to take them into. you have also insisted that _ to take them into. you have also insisted that you _ to take them into. you have also insisted that you are _ to take them into. you have also insisted that you are not - to take them into. you have also insisted that you are not having. insisted that you are not having trigger warnings. insisted that you are not having triggerwarnings. some insisted that you are not having trigger warnings. some of the things you have outlined, some people might nowadays expect there to be a sign at the beginning, you might find some of this a bit tricky. why have you done that? have audiences gone to soft? i you done that? have audiences gone to soft? ~ , you done that? have audiences gone to soft? ~' , ., _, , to soft? i think they have come up we didn't use _ to soft? i think they have come up we didn't use to _ to soft? i think they have come up we didn't use to have _ to soft? i think they have come up we didn't use to have trigger - we didn't use to have trigger warnings. they are very disturbing scenes in macbeth, terrible murders on things but the impact of theatre should be that you are shocked and you should be disturbed. i don't think you should be prepared for these things and when i was young i never had trigger warnings for shows. ~ ., , ., ., i] shows. would you get rid of them? i would, shows. would you get rid of them? i would. yes- — shows. would you get rid of them? i would. yes- i— shows. would you get rid of them? i would, yes. i think— shows. would you get rid of them? i would, yes. i think things _ shows. would you get rid of them? i would, yes. i think things like - would, yes. i think things like strobe effects and things that might affect people physically should be notified. but i don't think, shakespeare's plays are full of murders and full of horror and as a young student and lover of the theatre i never experienced trigger warnings telling me, by the way, in

king lear gloucester will have his eyes pulled out. the shock is, my god, this thing is happening. to be alive and connect in the present, it is the shock and the unexpected, thatis is the shock and the unexpected, that is what makes the theatre so exciting. that is what makes the theatre so excitina. . ~ that is what makes the theatre so excitina. ., ~' ., that is what makes the theatre so excitin.. ., ~ ., .,. that is what makes the theatre so excitina. ., ~' ., .,. ., exciting. talking of active theatre, ou do exciting. talking of active theatre, you do read _ exciting. talking of active theatre, you do read and _ exciting. talking of active theatre, you do read and hear— exciting. talking of active theatre, you do read and hear often - exciting. talking of active theatre, you do read and hear often people exciting. talking of active theatre, i you do read and hear often people in the industry, even the director at the industry, even the director at the young vic stood down at the end of next week worried about funding, worried about closures, worried about the theatres in our towns and cities around the country struggling. do you worry about that? in the arts, do you mean? ever since i started out as an actor there was or is this concern that funding for the arts was always an uphill battle. i don't think our nationalfunding for the uphill battle. i don't think our national funding for the arts compares with someone like france or germany, it has always been a struggle and increasingly so. the subsidised theatre is always having to struggle to find sponsorship. these are difficult times, as we know. ~ ., ,., these are difficult times, as we know. ~ ., , ., know. what some people have turned to, though. —

know. what some people have turned to, though, particularly _ know. what some people have turned to, though, particularly in _ know. what some people have turned to, though, particularly in london's i to, though, particularly in london's west end but not exclusively, is bringing in massive name stars, sarahjessica parker at bringing in massive name stars, sarah jessica parker at the bringing in massive name stars, sarahjessica parker at the moment is on stage in the west end, incredible scenes of legions of fans outside waiting for her every night. would you pay £300 a ticket to go and see sarahjessica parker in a play? and see sarah jessica parker in a -la ? and see sarah jessica parker in a -la 7 . ~ and see sarah jessica parker in a .la 7 . ~' , . , and see sarah jessica parker in a .la 7 , . , ., play? the ticket prices are worryingly _ play? the ticket prices are worryingly high _ play? the ticket prices are worryingly high at - play? the ticket prices are worryingly high at the - play? the ticket prices are - worryingly high at the moment, particularly in the west end. in this set up what we have tried to do, are producers, wessex grove and of the tickets across the board have been at £15 — £20. 50 of the tickets across the board have been at £15 - £20.— of the tickets across the board have been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? we can add — been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? we can add something _ been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? we can add something like - been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? we can add something like 5096 - been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? we can add something like 5096 of i been at £15 - £20. so you can do it? i we can add something like 5096 of the we can add something like 50% of the tickets are around £50. there are expensive seats for this production but offset by selling cheaper seats. would you pay £300 to go and see sarahjessica parker? i would you pay £300 to go and see sarah jessica parker?— sarah jessica parker? i have to confess i _ sarah jessica parker? i have to confess i was _ sarah jessica parker? i have to confess i was invited _ sarah jessica parker? i have to confess i was invited to - sarah jessica parker? i have to confess i was invited to the - sarah jessica parker? i have to - confess i was invited to the opening night and i got a freebie. find confess i was invited to the opening night and i got a freebie.— night and i got a freebie. and was it aood? night and i got a freebie. and was it good? it — night and i got a freebie. and was it good? it was — night and i got a freebie. and was it good? it was very _ night and i got a freebie. and was it good? it was very good, - night and i got a freebie. and was it good? it was very good, they i night and i got a freebie. and was | it good? it was very good, they are very brilliant _ it good? it was very good, they are very brilliant comic— it good? it was very good, they are very brilliant comic performances. l very brilliant comic performances. we will talk in a few minutes to labour about their green plans and

how they have ditched their £28 billion target but i know you have taken to environmental campaigning and you have made a film, every stark film about pylons potentially going across landscape that you love. �* . . , going across landscape that you love. n ., , ., ,�* love. actually, the film doesn't talk about _ love. actually, the film doesn't talk about pylons. _ love. actually, the film doesn't talk about pylons. it _ love. actually, the film doesn't talk about pylons. it is - love. actually, the film doesn't talk about pylons. it is the - talk about pylons. it is the substations, _ talk about pylons. it is the substations, forgive - talk about pylons. it is the substations, forgive me. | talk about pylons. it is the - substations, forgive me. bringing electricity from wind farms. in suffolk, yes. i have an electricity from wind farms. i�*u suffolk, yes. i have an affinity with suffolk, was born there and i've gone back there all my life and when i learned of this proposal to build a huge energy hub, a super hub inland just near the coastal town of alba i was quite shocked by what was being presupposed by national grid and scottishpower. the thing is there a better solution is which the belgians and the danes and the dutch are doing which is to build offshore hubs so you have your wind creating the energy but in the suffolk case what is being proposed is you bring it into a huge, massive superstructure the size of 90 football pitches 30 metres high just inland. —— aldborough. we believe this would have a devastating impact

on local communities, farming, fishing, tourism, when it can be done better, which is offshore hub is. ~ . done better, which is offshore hub is. . ., ., , ~' done better, which is offshore hub is. we have asked the national grid about this, isn't _ is. we have asked the national grid about this, isn't it _ is. we have asked the national grid about this, isn't it much _ is. we have asked the national grid about this, isn't it much more - about this, isn't it much more expensive to do it offshore? this is a long-term _ expensive to do it offshore? this is a long-term legacy _ expensive to do it offshore? this is a long-term legacy for _ expensive to do it offshore? this is a long-term legacy for our - expensive to do it offshore? this is| a long-term legacy for our country, a long—term legacy for our country, this is the infrastructure going into the future, it might be more expensive in the short term, in the mid—term we are convinced it is not but this is really vital that we get this right and this is the solution, the implementation of this is destructive. i've been excited to look at what the belgians and the danes are doing by these offshore infrastructures which are then ecologically friendly and they take their cabling on shore and to brownfield sites which is critical. this is a greenfield site proposal. do you think you will win the campaign? indie do you think you will win the campaign?— do you think you will win the cam-rain? . ., ., 4' , campaign? we have to keep fighting for it. it's campaign? we have to keep fighting for it- it's not _ campaign? we have to keep fighting for it. it's not about _ campaign? we have to keep fighting for it. it's not about suffolk. - campaign? we have to keep fighting for it. it's not about suffolk. this - for it. it's not about suffolk. this resonates throughout the country. this is how this country goes forward in building our new clean energy infrastructure. it's really,

really vital and what is being proposed at the moment we think is a disaster. . �* , proposed at the moment we think is a disaster. ., �* , , ., disaster. that's exactly what we will be talking _ disaster. that's exactly what we will be talking about _ disaster. that's exactly what we will be talking about in - disaster. that's exactly what we will be talking about in a - disaster. that's exactly what we | will be talking about in a minute disaster. that's exactly what we i will be talking about in a minute or two with pat mcfadden from the labour party mother green transition with the trade—offs it might bring. ralph fiennes, thank you forjoining us in the studio. ralph fiennes, thank you for 'oining us in the studiofi ralph fiennes, thank you for 'oining us in the studio.* us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer- _ us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer. we _ us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer. we will— us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer. we will have - us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer. we will have you - us in the studio. sorry we cannot go on for longer. we will have you in i on for longer. we will have you in another time. _ on for longer. we will have you in another time. as _ on for longer. we will have you in another time. as we _ on for longer. we will have you in another time. as we have - on for longer. we will have you in another time. as we have just - on for longer. we will have you in l another time. as we have just been discussing, in the last few weeks we have been talking time and time again about whether labour will stick to its £28 billion it promised to spend on creating greenjobs stick to its £28 billion it promised to spend on creating green jobs and moving to cleaner energy. but eventually it became the worst kept secret in westminster that the party would ditch it. officially they went public this week that the promise of the £20 billion cheque had gone. the explanation for ditching the plan that was meant to get the economy going and going green, there isn't enough cash in the coffers that labour hopes to control after the next election. keir starmer�*s backers say it's just pragmatic, and blame the tories for wrecking the public finances.

but others are desperately disappointed and think that they have given up on their ambition. pat mcfadden is labour's campaign coordinator, the campaign she'd command you are back in the studio with us this morning. it has been written that you were one of the people who was not too fond of this price tag, so you won the argument, please? i price tag, so you won the argument, lease? ., ., ., ., ., please? i have read a lot about that, it is _ please? i have read a lot about that, it is not _ please? i have read a lot about that, it is not about _ please? i have read a lot about that, it is not about me, - please? i have read a lot about that, it is not about me, this i please? i have read a lot about that, it is not about me, this isj please? i have read a lot about i that, it is not about me, this is a decision taken by keir starmer and taken for good reasons. when this policy was announced a couple of years ago, interest rates were at 0.1%. they are now at 5.25%. anyone viewing this programme who has had to remortgage in the last couple of years will know what that has meant for their finances. years will know what that has meant for theirfinances. a parallel for their finances. a parallel between for theirfinances. a parallel between household finances and the country's finances does not always hold, we cannot always use this comparison but when you look at the country's finances what a change of interest rates has meant is it is costing £70 billion more now to

service our national debt than when the policy was first announced. 50 we have a duty in the approach to the election to make sure that what we announce is deliverable and that change in circumstances, some of which was caused by the liz truss mini budget was part of the picture. the thing is, that change in circumstances happened many months ago now and it is only last week that keir starmer said the £28 billion was vital, so actually you have been hanging onto it for too long, orwere have been hanging onto it for too long, or were you misleading is that you decided ages ago that you would ditch it but didn't want to come clean? ., .., clean? you can debate the timing should have _ clean? you can debate the timing should have happened... - clean? you can debate the timing should have happened... i'm - clean? you can debate the timing i should have happened... i'm asking ou a should have happened... i'm asking you a question- _ should have happened... i'm asking you a question. the _ should have happened... i'm asking you a question. the element - should have happened... i'm asking you a question. the element or - you a question. the element or should have happened after the budget. i don't think it is a secret we have been looking at this for some time. $5 we have been looking at this for some time-— we have been looking at this for some time. �* , ., ., , ., ., some time. as we have a duty to do because this — some time. as we have a duty to do because this is _ some time. as we have a duty to do because this is an _ some time. as we have a duty to do because this is an election - some time. as we have a duty to do because this is an election year, - because this is an election year, election could happen at any time, we are in the approach to this. and the other thing about it was all the discussion, you have had many of my colleagues sitting here in recent

weeks and you probably asked about this 28 billion. the policy, the focus of the policy had become entirely about public borrowing figure. and what was getting lost in that endless discussion about the borrowing figure was the good things that need to be done through the green transition. br; that need to be done through the green transition.— green transition. by ditching the fiaure. .. green transition. by ditching the figure- -- we _ green transition. by ditching the figure... we managed _ green transition. by ditching the figure... we managed to - green transition. by ditching the figure... we managed to keep l green transition. by ditching the figure... we managed to keep a j green transition. by ditching the i figure... we managed to keep a lot of those in — figure... we managed to keep a lot of those in the _ figure... we managed to keep a lot of those in the announcement. i figure... we managed to keep a lot of those in the announcement. by i of those in the announcement. by ditching the figure that you chose to put out there, other people didn't decide to talk about 28 billion, the labour party decided to talk about 28 billion and by ditching it some of our viewers are worried you are abandoning your ambitions on this. let's get a question from sylvia walker, one of our viewers. question from sylvia walker, one of ourviewers. she question from sylvia walker, one of our viewers. she said, question from sylvia walker, one of ourviewers. she said, "labour question from sylvia walker, one of our viewers. she said, "labour has just lost my vote. we british are mostly love our wildlife and fragile earth. who of our politicians gives a toss?" you have lost votes because of this. ~ ., ., _ a toss?" you have lost votes because of this. ~ ., ., ., ., of this. what i would say to sylvia and anybody _ of this. what i would say to sylvia and anybody else _ of this. what i would say to sylvia and anybody else who _ of this. what i would say to sylvia and anybody else who takes i of this. what i would say to sylvia and anybody else who takes that| and anybody else who takes that view, they could be forgiven for

thinking in some of the coverage of recent days that somehow we had abandoned ambitions to make a real success of this green transition. that's not the case. let me tell you what is still there. still got a commitment to gd energy, a publicly owned energy company to help drive the transition to clean power —— gb energy. we still have a commitment to a national wealth fund to preserve our steel industry, invest in our ports. the important industries that will be needed to support the green transition. we still have a commitment to local power plants where people can have incentives to have renewable energy incentives to have renewable energy in their local areas. we still have a commitment to insulate millions of homes. there are good things that are still part of this plan. they will now be financed in a different way with a combination of windfall tax and public borrowing. indie way with a combination of windfall tax and public borrowing.- tax and public borrowing. we will come to that _ tax and public borrowing. we will come to that in _ tax and public borrowing. we will come to that in a _ tax and public borrowing. we will come to that in a second. - tax and public borrowing. we will come to that in a second. but i tax and public borrowing. we will| come to that in a second. but the reality is you have significantly cut the amount of money that you are prepared to spend to do those things

that you say are the good things you still want to do. and that does matter. you can't sit here and say doesn't make a difference whether it is 28 billion or 4 billion. as you mention, this was also your plan to grow the economy. this is how keir starmer sat in that chair and told our viewers we are going to spend this because that's what we'll get our economy growing. there is a quote from the plan that says "this is the vehicle through which we will turn britain's economy around." 50 without that vehicle going at full tilt with the full funding, why should anyone believe you can turn the economy round? first, we've made an error sometimes onjudging the worth first, we've made an error sometimes on judging the worth of every policy as the amount of public money spent on it. let me give you an example from our time on it. let me give you an example from ourtime in on it. let me give you an example from our time in government. we came into government 25 years ago with a very modest pledge to reduce class

sizes but we were then able to have a transformation education on the back of a modest pledge. so a transformation education on the back of a modest pledge.- a transformation education on the back of a modest pledge. so it's a mistake to — back of a modest pledge. so it's a mistake to obsess _ back of a modest pledge. so it's a mistake to obsess about - back of a modest pledge. so it's a mistake to obsess about her- back of a modest pledge. so it's a i mistake to obsess about her figure. it is. the other point, which is really important is that in this area even more than educational health, the green transition will be largely driven by private sector investment and in the focus on the borrowing figure, we lost some sight of that. $5 borrowing figure, we lost some sight of that. �* , . , borrowing figure, we lost some sight of that. �* , ., , ., borrowing figure, we lost some sight ofthat. a ., , .,~ ., of that. as was it a mistake to romise of that. as was it a mistake to promise a _ of that. as was it a mistake to promise a figure _ of that. as was it a mistake to promise a figure in _ of that. as was it a mistake to promise a figure in the - of that. as was it a mistake to promise a figure in the first i of that. as was it a mistake to i promise a figure in the first place? i think it was an important signal of intent at a time of the different economic environment with zero interest rates but it's important you viewers understand this. in the transition to clean power, right now there are some £200 billion of projects in the investment pipeline. but his private money and are focused purely on 28 billion, we have lost sight of the fact that

most of this transition notjust in the uk and around the world, it will be private investment that drives it. ., , be private investment that drives it. �* be private investment that drives it. case you've always made us the ublic it. case you've always made us the public sector _ it. case you've always made us the public sector has _ it. case you've always made us the public sector has to _ it. case you've always made us the public sector has to go _ it. case you've always made us the public sector has to go you - it. case you've always made us the public sector has to go you have i it. case you've always made us the public sector has to go you have to j public sector has to go you have to create the conditions and you've significantly changed your tax. a couple of weeks ago i asked viewers —— they would ditch the figure. keir starmer has five missions, it's impossible to achieve two of them without this plan. 50, how will you grow the economy when you've ditched the way you are going to do it? you are riaht the way you are going to do it? you are right to — the way you are going to do it? you are right to say _ the way you are going to do it? moi. are right to say the public sector and government has to step up to the plate. we will still do that three gigabytes energy, financed through this plan, through a national wealth fund which is financed through this plan, through the kind of things i listed a moment to go —— through gb

energy. the way to make this a success is for public and private to work together on it. that's what's got to happen here. fin work together on it. that's what's got to happen here.— got to happen here. on the credit sector, got to happen here. on the credit sector. part _ got to happen here. on the credit sector. part of — got to happen here. on the credit sector, part of how— got to happen here. on the credit sector, part of how your - got to happen here. on the credit sector, part of how your no i got to happen here. on the credit i sector, part of how your no funding this is by extending the windfall tax to 2029. offshore energy uk who represent lots of companies including some of the industry around aberdeen and scotland have said extending that will compound the turbo—charging of north sea decline. they are desperately worried this will mean jobs will go in the north sea. i worried this will mean 'obs will go in the north sea._ in the north sea. i don't think the oil and gas _ in the north sea. i don't think the oil and gas industry _ in the north sea. i don't think the oil and gas industry has _ in the north sea. i don't think the oil and gas industry has been i in the north sea. i don't think the| oil and gas industry has been fond of the idea of a windfall tax but with the big increase in prices we've seen in recent years, we think it's fair to get the proceeds from some of that to use for the green transition. the level we will be taxing is the same level as norway and is very successful. you

taxing is the same level as norway and is very successful.— and is very successful. you think it's worth _ and is very successful. you think it's worth it _ and is very successful. you think it's worth it to _ and is very successful. you think it's worth it to the _ and is very successful. you think it's worth it to the cost - and is very successful. you think it's worth it to the cost to - and is very successful. you think it's worth it to the cost to north | it's worth it to the cost to north sea businesses? this it's worth it to the cost to north sea businesses?— it's worth it to the cost to north sea businesses? this is the same as what norway — sea businesses? this is the same as what norway is _ sea businesses? this is the same as what norway is doing _ sea businesses? this is the same as what norway is doing and _ sea businesses? this is the same as what norway is doing and we - sea businesses? this is the same as what norway is doing and we think l what norway is doing and we think it's right to have a combination of that and public borrowing. the green transition cannot and should not just bejudged by public transition cannot and should not just be judged by public borrowing level, it should bejudged by public and private sectors working together and private sectors working together and the lion's share of the investment will come from the private sector, if they know that they have a government that will step up to the plate and is committed to it and i assure you with us they will.— with us they will. let's talk briefly about _ with us they will. let's talk briefly about the _ with us they will. let's talk briefly about the post i with us they will. let's talk| briefly about the post office because you are one of the people he was post office minister for a time and our viewers know the horror of some of the things that have been revealed about what was going on in the post office and how is sub—postmasters and mistresses were treated. you are asked when he had concerns at the time recently and you said that you couldn't really remember it coming across your desk. i've gone back, looked at the papers

as any minister candy and it did cross my desk, several mps asked parliamentary questions and what i found looking at those papers after 14 years away from the department was just how emphatic the post office was about this. the way that this worked, the post office was operationally independent from the department, it was publicly owned but on a day—to—day basis it was run by a chief executive, a board and so on. and each time an mp raised a question about this, the reply would come back from the post office that they thought the system is robust, they thought the system is robust, they had no evidence to suggest there was anything wrong with horizon. in fact, there was anything wrong with horizon. infact, i read there was anything wrong with horizon. in fact, i read a letter from the chief executive at the time to one of the mps saying, if there's any problems, they are resolved at no detriment to the individuals stop lights at the post office was telling you it was fine and you

didn't make further inquiries, do you wish you had? of course i did given what's happened and human tragedy of this is awful but i think there were two problems that came together. one was blind faith in the it from the post office and the second was a culture of prosecution of their own sub—postmasters those two things came together with the most awful human consequences. what i want to ask about reports that the labour candidate for the rochdale by—election has claimed israel knew about the attack on october the 7th and let it happen. he has since apologised for his comments but the summer with those hues have a place in the labour party? what he said was completely wrong, i was appalled when i saw it, he is rightly apologised and retracted and i hope he learns a lesson from it.— he learns a lesson from it. should he learns a lesson from it. should he still be —

he learns a lesson from it. should he still be labour _ he learns a lesson from it. should he still be labour candidate? i he learns a lesson from it. should he still be labour candidate? he i he learns a lesson from it. should l he still be labour candidate? he is liven a he still be labour candidate? he is given a full— he still be labour candidate? he is given a full apology _ he still be labour candidate? he is given a full apology and _ he still be labour candidate? he: 3 given a full apology and retraction, those comments were completely wrong and certainly don't represent the labour party. and certainly don't represent the labour party-— and certainly don't represent the labour pa . ., ~ i. , . labour party. thank you very much for bein: labour party. thank you very much for being with _ labour party. thank you very much for being with us _ labour party. thank you very much for being with us in _ labour party. thank you very much for being with us in the _ labour party. thank you very much for being with us in the studio, i for being with us in the studio, it's always great to have you here. now, later today a vigil will be held in warrington to mark a year since the murder of brianna ghey — by two other teenagers. last week we were privileged to be joined by her mother esther ghey, who opened up about her experiences, and told us about her campaign for social media safety. we were overwhelmed by your response, so wanted to share some of your thoughts. barbara foley: what an amazing woman esther is. i cannot imagine her pain and am in awe of her strength. jenny from bristol wanted to pass on her thanks to esther as a voice on behalf of the millions of parents worldwide who are struggling.

we know this issue is important to you, and we'll come back it soon. let's have a final word with the panel about some of the things we've been talking about, whether it's the travails of trying to manage the world online with its risks and dangers, whether it is not being able to buy a house, what's happening with the environment. kwajo, there are a lot of things some people believe that make it a lot harder now for younger generations and politicians don't really respond adequately. what you think of that? do you think it's

right, is there a mood among people of your generation?— of your generation? absolutely and what's interesting _ of your generation? absolutely and what's interesting is _ of your generation? absolutely and what's interesting is politicians i of your generation? absolutely and what's interesting is politicians of l what's interesting is politicians of both sides will ask, how do we engage young people, why aren't young people voting? what are you offering them? we've seen in many elections where young people aren't the priority but they are overwhelmingly suffering now whether it's in relation to housing or work, jobs, education, the cost of education. yet there is no real benefit they are being offered by either party. benefit they are being offered by either party-— benefit they are being offered by either party. what about labour's ureen either party. what about labour's green plans. _ either party. what about labour's green plans. do _ either party. what about labour's green plans, do you _ either party. what about labour's green plans, do you think- either party. what about labour's green plans, do you think have i green plans, do you think have noticed, this £28 billion price tag and then the whole wobbling around it and now it's been ditched? i do and i it and now it's been ditched? i do and i think— it and now it's been ditched? i do and i think young _ it and now it's been ditched? i gr and i think young people are in tune with the social issues especially around climate change. it's interesting, there's two sides to this coin with the green pledge obviously keir starmer wants to be seen as pragmatic, he wants to be seen as pragmatic, he wants to be seen as pragmatic, he wants to be seen as someone that's steadying the ship. he said himself he doesn't

want to divert away from his fiscal rules and everything within the manifesto has to be accounted for. so i get that. having said that, on the flip side, the issue of climate change is the biggest issue this country faces but globally too. he has backed away from that. what people want is a leader that's willing to take radical change. what they don't want is a flip—flop for they don't want is a flip—flop for the next prime minister. there will be people out there worrying not just climate campaigners but also campaigners across the board who are worrying now in regards to their commitments, even in regards to housing, are they going to pull back from that? is a housing, are they going to pull back from that? , ., ., not sure they'll stick to what they said. labour does have this dilemma and it was fascinating to hear pat mcfadden say repeatedly the private sector and public sector have to work together. anyone would imagine there is still a tension in the

labour party like there was between tony blair and gordon brown over public and private. it’s tony blair and gordon brown over public and private.— public and private. it's clear that rachel reeves _ public and private. it's clear that rachel reeves won _ public and private. it's clear that rachel reeves won on _ public and private. it's clear that rachel reeves won on this i public and private. it's clear that i rachel reeves won on this occasion in the _ rachel reeves won on this occasion in the big _ rachel reeves won on this occasion in the big question will be what does _ in the big question will be what does keir— in the big question will be what does keir starmer stand for? we are now not— does keir starmer stand for? we are now not quite sure. i don't think the public— now not quite sure. i don't think the public mind u—turns if they think— the public mind u—turns if they think they— the public mind u—turns if they think they are the right decisions made _ think they are the right decisions made in — think they are the right decisions made in the best interests but it was their— made in the best interests but it was their big flagship policy so i'm not clear— was their big flagship policy so i'm not clear now what is it they are offering — not clear now what is it they are offering voters and that's what our readers _ offering voters and that's what our readers will be looking at. you see that splitting _ readers will be looking at. you see that splitting the _ readers will be looking at. you see that splitting the generations i readers will be looking at. you see that splitting the generations as i that splitting the generations as well? �* a, , a, �*, well? i'm not sure that's true actually- _ well? i'm not sure that's true actually- i — well? i'm not sure that's true actually. i think _ well? i'm not sure that's true actually. i think people - well? i'm not sure that's true actually. i think people will. actually. i think people will respect _ actually. i think people will respect u—turns if it's for the right— respect u—turns if it's for the right reason whether they are younger— right reason whether they are younger or older. on this issue i think_ younger or older. on this issue i think labour have got a problem that it was_ think labour have got a problem that it was their_ think labour have got a problem that it was their flagship and now we're not sure _ it was their flagship and now we're not sure who they are. what it was their flagship and now we're not sure who they are.— it was their flagship and now we're not sure who they are. what you make ofthe not sure who they are. what you make of the decision? _ not sure who they are. what you make of the decision? well, _ not sure who they are. what you make of the decision? well, i _ not sure who they are. what you make of the decision? well, i think - of the decision? well, i think elections _ of the decision? well, i think elections are _ of the decision? well, i think elections are profound - of the decision? well, i think . elections are profound moments of the decision? well, i think - elections are profound moments in history— elections are profound moments in history the — elections are profound moments in history the country. _ elections are profound moments in history the country. they— elections are profound moments in history the country. they go - elections are profound moments in i history the country. they go beyond, ithink— history the country. they go beyond, i think particularly— history the country. they go beyond, i think particularly since _ history the country. they go beyond, i think particularly since the - i think particularly since the conservatives— i think particularly since the conservatives have - i think particularly since the conservatives have been i i think particularly since the conservatives have been in| i think particularly since the - conservatives have been in power for so long. _ conservatives have been in power for so long. they've _ conservatives have been in power for so long, they've gone _ conservatives have been in power for so long, they've gone and _ conservatives have been in power for so long, they've gone and which - so long, they've gone and which comes— so long, they've gone and which comes out— so long, they've gone and which comes out on— so long, they've gone and which

comes out on top. _ so long, they've gone and which comes out on top. there - so long, they've gone and which comes out on top. there are - so long, they've gone and which - comes out on top. there are moments where _ comes out on top. there are moments where the — comes out on top. there are moments where the country — comes out on top. there are moments where the country has _ comes out on top. there are moments where the country has a _ comes out on top. there are moments where the country has a chance - comes out on top. there are moments where the country has a chance to - where the country has a chance to say. _ where the country has a chance to say, who — where the country has a chance to say, who are _ where the country has a chance to say. who are we. _ where the country has a chance to say, who are we, where _ where the country has a chance to say, who are we, where are - where the country has a chance to say, who are we, where are we i where the country has a chance to - say, who are we, where are we going, what is _ say, who are we, where are we going, what is britain's — say, who are we, where are we going, what is britain's future? _ say, who are we, where are we going, what is britain's future? and - say, who are we, where are we going, what is britain's future? and like - what is britain's future? and like kwajo— what is britain's future? and like kwajo and — what is britain's future? and like kwajo and victoria, _ what is britain's future? and like kwajo and victoria, i— what is britain's future? and like kwajo and victoria, i understand| what is britain's future? and like - kwajo and victoria, i understand the anxiety— kwajo and victoria, i understand the anxiety in _ kwajo and victoria, i understand the anxiety in the — kwajo and victoria, i understand the anxiety in the labour— kwajo and victoria, i understand the anxiety in the labour party- anxiety in the labour party leadership— anxiety in the labour party leadership to _ anxiety in the labour party leadership to take - anxiety in the labour party leadership to take a - anxiety in the labour party| leadership to take a course anxiety in the labour party- leadership to take a course away from _ leadership to take a course away from the — leadership to take a course away from the conservatives - leadership to take a course away from the conservatives and - leadership to take a course away from the conservatives and say. leadership to take a course away. from the conservatives and say we are responsible, _ from the conservatives and say we are responsible, but _ from the conservatives and say we are responsible, but ultimately- from the conservatives and say we are responsible, but ultimately if i are responsible, but ultimately if you think— are responsible, but ultimately if you think back— are responsible, but ultimately if you think back to _ are responsible, but ultimately if you think back to tony— are responsible, but ultimately if you think back to tony blair, - are responsible, but ultimately if you think back to tony blair, hisi you think back to tony blair, his sense _ you think back to tony blair, his sense that — you think back to tony blair, his sense that he _ you think back to tony blair, his sense that he had _ you think back to tony blair, his sense that he had a _ you think back to tony blair, his sense that he had a vision, - you think back to tony blair, his sense that he had a vision, that| you think back to tony blair, his i sense that he had a vision, that he could _ sense that he had a vision, that he could promise _ sense that he had a vision, that he could promise a _ sense that he had a vision, that he could promise a distinctively- sense that he had a vision, that he could promise a distinctively new i could promise a distinctively new britain _ could promise a distinctively new britain was — could promise a distinctively new britain was fundamentally- could promise a distinctively new - britain was fundamentally important. and rhetorically _ britain was fundamentally important. and rhetorically and _ britain was fundamentally important. and rhetorically and psychologically. and rhetorically and psychologically it's extremely— and rhetorically and psychologically it's extremely important _ and rhetorically and psychologically it's extremely important for- and rhetorically and psychologically it's extremely important for labour| it's extremely important for labour to say. _ it's extremely important for labour to say, we — it's extremely important for labour to say, we understand _ it's extremely important for labour to say, we understand what - it's extremely important for labour to say, we understand what the - to say, we understand what the british— to say, we understand what the british future _ to say, we understand what the british future should _ to say, we understand what the british future should be - to say, we understand what the british future should be like - to say, we understand what the | british future should be like and how we — british future should be like and how we are _ british future should be like and how we are going _ british future should be like and how we are going get— british future should be like and how we are going get there - british future should be like and how we are going get there and | british future should be like and i how we are going get there and we are giving — how we are going get there and we are giving young _ how we are going get there and we are giving young of— how we are going get there and we are giving young of britain, - how we are going get there and we are giving young of britain, under. are giving young of britain, under stress _ are giving young of britain, under stress as— are giving young of britain, under stress as kwajo _ are giving young of britain, under stress as kwajo has _ are giving young of britain, under stress as kwajo has eloquently. are giving young of britain, underl stress as kwajo has eloquently put it, stress as kwajo has eloquently put it. their—

stress as kwajo has eloquently put it, theirfuture _ stress as kwajo has eloquently put it, their future back. _ stress as kwajo has eloquently put it, their future back. that's- stress as kwajo has eloquently put it, their future back. that's what. it, their future back. that's what they— it, their future back. that's what they have — it, their future back. that's what they have to— it, their future back. that's what they have to do _ it, their future back. that's what they have to do really— it, their future back. that's what they have to do really to - it, their future back. that's what they have to do really to when. i they have to do really to when. that's — they have to do really to when. that's one _ they have to do really to when. that's one of— they have to do really to when. that's one of their— they have to do really to when. that's one of their slogans - they have to do really to when. that's one of their slogans butl they have to do really to when. i that's one of their slogans but are they doing that now, that rhetoric, that sense of vision?— that sense of vision? there's a lot more that — that sense of vision? there's a lot more that has _ that sense of vision? there's a lot more that has to _ that sense of vision? there's a lot more that has to happen - more that has to happen fundamentally and there has to be more radical proposals especially in relation to housing, that's the number one problem the country is facing side of the climate crisis, housing and housing for young people, especially those renting, they need support and right now they don't have it. it’s they need support and right now they don't have it— don't have it. it's been great to talk about _ don't have it. it's been great to talk about housing. _ thank you so much to kwajo, victoria and simon for being with us — huge thanks to you at home for watching — on a day when we we started by asking if the big political parties are listening hard enough to the younger generations. whether it's on housing, or climate change, or paying less tax when you're starting out — the temptation for all politicians, especially when they're under the cosh, is to make the quick decision for the short term. to appeal to voters they're sure are going to turn out to cast a ballot — that's the older among us.

it is politically logical, but maybe it leaves a big chunk of our society with a legitimate complaint. you can always catch up on iplayer, i'll be with paddy o'connell for this sunday's newscast you can find on bbc sounds — and i'll look forward to seeing you next sunday, same time, same place. but very troubling situation. never

mind about whether live from london, this is bbc news. the un says it's under huge pressure to find a way to help over a million displaced palestinians in rafah, who risk being caught in a major military assault by israel.

the population have nowhere to go. the population have nowhere to go. the safe areas that were declared are no longer safe. and if these people have to move, where can they move? they move to the beach area, which is already overcrowded. results from the pakistan's general election see independent candidates allied to imran khan's pti emerging as the biggest group in parliament. the housing secretary michael gove says that no—fault evictions will be banned by the time of the general election later this year. and we'll talk american football, the half time show and taylor swift as the super bowl hits vegas. hello. we start in the middle east. israel is facing growing international warnings over its planned offensive in rafah — the city in southern gaza crammed with more than a million palestinian who have fled their homes.