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tv   BBC News Now  BBC News  February 21, 2024 2:00pm-2:31pm GMT

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so by demand an immediate ceasefire. so by supporting the snp's motion tonight, calling for that immediate ceasefire, this house can put itself on the side of peace, it could put itself on the side ofjustice, it can put itself on the side of the people, and it can put itself on the right side of history. the people, and it can put itself on the right side of history.— right side of history. the question is as on the _ right side of history. the question is as on the order... _ right side of history. the question is as on the order... order! - right side of history. the question is as on the order... order! can . right side of history. the question is as on the order... order! can i | is as on the order... order! can i just— is as on the order... order! can i just say— is as on the order... order! can i just say to — is as on the order... order! can i just say to members clapping, i have a list _ just say to members clapping, i have a list and _ just say to members clapping, i have a list and i— just say to members clapping, i have a list. and i can rule who speaks wear! _ a list. and i can rule who speaks wear! 50— a list. and i can rule who speaks wear! so i— a list. and i can rule who speaks wear! so i think we need to hear a debate, _ wear! so i think we need to hear a debate, not — wear! so i think we need to hear a debate, not a debate in society! the question— debate, not a debate in society! the question is_ debate, not a debate in society! the question is as on the order paper, i call david _ question is as on the order paper, i call david lammy to move the amendment a in the name of the leader_ amendment a in the name of the leader of— amendment a in the name of the leader of the opposition. shadow secretary— leader of the opposition. shadow secretary of state!
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mr speaker, i bike to move the labour amendment in the name of the leader of the opposition and my name. there are times when this house can come together with clarity and purpose and i hope that this can be one of those moments. mr speaker, it is with pain and sadness that this house gathers here today. the pain and sadness of war that has gone on too long. it is now 137 days since the appalling 7th of october massacre, and since that date the killing has gone on. flattened cities, ransacked villages, teaming
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refugee camps, hostages in chains, we have seen it all on our tv screens and phone screens. mr speaker, a ground offensive in rafa would be a humanitarian disaster. a moral catastrophe. and a strategic mistake. it must not happen. that is our position, that is the position of the european union, it is the position of ourfriends of the european union, it is the position of our friends in the arab world, it is the position of our partners in australia, canada, new zealand, we must notjust elevate a ground invasion of rafa, essential though it is, all violence against civilians must now stop. just one moment. and that is why labour is
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saying unequivocally that we need an immediate humanitarian ceasefire to end the bloodshed and the suffering. i am very grateful to my honourable friend for giving way. what i think is really important in this debate is really important in this debate is that we try and come out of this with not only this house united but with not only this house united but with the united kingdom in line with international partners. what i would have said to the honourable gentleman from the snp if he had given way was that while the leader of the snp's questions was in line with the international community, is it not actually the case that it is the labour amendment that will put it in line with those international partners, and in fact the snp amendment that will put us outside of the space where the vast majority of the space where the vast majority of the space where the vast majority of the international community is? i of the international community is? i am very grateful to my honourable friend. this is a moment when the whole house can come together. let
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us be clear, whether it is the government benches, whether it is of the opposition benches, the time for a ceasefire has come! to end the bloodshed and suffering. to allow a sustained effort to salvage the hope of a two state solution. there are three nations before us today, only one of them can be supported by all sides. i will give way. we one of them can be supported by all sides. i will give way.— sides. i will give way. we all want to see the — sides. i will give way. we all want to see the fighting _ sides. i will give way. we all want to see the fighting stopped. - sides. i will give way. we all want to see the fighting stopped. we l to see the fighting stopped. we can't begin to imagine the horrors of what would happen if israel goes into rafa. the problem is that i think we can all imagine that israel might dojust that think we can all imagine that israel might do just that and ignore international opinion. so can we start to think what action we will take, what sanctions we will take against israel and propose, if they do that? there has to be some consequences for israel if they are
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behaving this way, completely opposed to all international opinion. opposed to all international oinion. ~ , ~' ., , opposed to all international oinion. , ~ ., , ., opinion. well, my friend knows that the un is meeting _ opinion. well, my friend knows that the un is meeting to _ opinion. well, my friend knows that the un is meeting to discuss - opinion. well, my friend knows that the un is meeting to discuss these| the un is meeting to discuss these very issues, and i think all of us can agree in this chamber that where that —— were that to happen, particularly as has been indicated at the moment by the israeli government, over ramadan, it would be a catastrophic mistake. labour supports an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, a stop to fighting by both sides now, the release of hostages, a surge of aid into gaza and a two state solution. i give way. i and a two state solution. i give wa . ~' . and a two state solution. i give wa . ~ ., ., ., ., , way. i think what the honourable gentleman _ way. i think what the honourable gentleman is _ way. i think what the honourable gentleman is saying _ way. i think what the honourable gentleman is saying about - way. i think what the honourable gentleman is saying about a - gentleman is saying about a humanitarian pause, but can i ask him how he feels... unitarian
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ceasefire. and humanitarian effort in gaza. can i ask the right honourable gentleman how he felt in the leader of the opposition said very publicly that israel had the right to withhold power and water from the people of gaza? 13? right to withhold power and water from the people of gaza? 137 days into this crisis, _ from the people of gaza? 137 days into this crisis, i _ from the people of gaza? 137 days into this crisis, i say _ from the people of gaza? 137 days into this crisis, i say to _ from the people of gaza? 137 days into this crisis, i say to the - into this crisis, i say to the honourable gentleman and i have now beenin honourable gentleman and i have now been in this house for almost 21! years, this is the moment to lift the tone not elaborate. can ijust turn, mr speaker, to the snp motion. can ijust to turn, mr speaker, to the snp motion. can i just to the turn, mr speaker, to the snp motion. can ijust to the snp motion if i may? it our common desire for the fighting and suffering to stop, but it does not address, as currently drafted, although i did listen to the spokesperson for the snp, it
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does not address how the fighting will not restart. it calls for an end to the war but it does not lay out a path to a sustainable peace. it does not fully explain how a lasting ceasefire can be achieved and it makes no mention of a two state solution or palestinian statehood. it does not reference the icj ruling and the need for its full implementation. frankly, colleagues, the snp motion appears... if you wait one moment. it appears to be one—sided, for any ceasefire to work it must, by necessity, be observed by all sides are it is not a ceasefire! that is why we are clear. israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if hamas continues with
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violence, israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of the 7th of october cannot happen again, i have no doubt that the snp agree with these sentiments because i heard that in the speech, he should then vote with the labour motion! i am really listening to the right honourable gentleman closely, the problem this house has is that we don't have operational control over the combatants. and this war will end when both sides are exhausted and they decide they want it to end and they decide they want it to end and they decide they want it to end and they lay down their arms. and i listened to the right honourable gentleman, the spokesperson for the snp, and ijust... at the end of the day, he read out a very long chargesheet against israel but hamas is using its own people, its own people, men and women and children, as human shields and it knows what it is doing as well.—
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it is doing as well. well, that is wh we it is doing as well. well, that is why we say _ it is doing as well. well, that is why we say to _ it is doing as well. well, that is why we say to the _ it is doing as well. well, that is why we say to the right - it is doing as well. well, that is - why we say to the right honourable gentleman that i ceasefire by necessity means both sides. it is very... the honourable member should be very careful not to vote for the appearance that this house is taking one side however conserved we are about the innocent loss of innocent life. —— however concerned we are. thank you for giving way. he is talking about a permanent ceasefire which is what we all want, peace in the region. if he can't demand an immediate ceasefire and the immediate ceasefire and the immediate ceasefire and the immediate ceasefire must be permanent because he can't guarantee, so surely if he wants it to be a permanent ceasefire that allows the carnage to continue in gaza, for it to be wiped from the map. gaza, for it to be wiped from the ma -. , gaza, for it to be wiped from the ma . _ , . .,
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gaza, for it to be wiped from the ma. , . ., ., , ., map. let me be clear, the labour pa is map. let me be clear, the labour party is calling — map. let me be clear, the labour party is calling for _ map. let me be clear, the labour party is calling for an _ map. let me be clear, the labour party is calling for an immediate l party is calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. we have been absolutely clear, when that ceasefire comes we do not want to see the fighting restart. i have been crystal clear about that. i will give way. i been crystal clear about that. i will give way-— been crystal clear about that. i will give way. i am very grateful for the honourable _ will give way. i am very grateful for the honourable member - will give way. i am very grateful for the honourable member for | will give way. i am very grateful - for the honourable member for giving way. for the honourable memberfor giving way. i am gratefulfor the position he is now adapting around an immediate ceasefire. i think there is more cohesion in this house today then we are actually showing the public. there are still some people in this house who are demanding that a ceasefire has to be permanent, i don't like to make a comparison to our own peace process but the basic principles are the same. you cannot guarantee the permanence of a ceasefire. you work for a ceasefire under the new work to make it permanent. so the bar is too high for some people. if people want to
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listen to what the public are saying and watch the tv screens, people are dying today. we have to call for an immediate ceasefire right now and i thank the memberfor taking immediate ceasefire right now and i thank the member for taking that position. i encourage all members to support any opportunity to vote for an immediate ceasefire. the honourable _ an immediate ceasefire. iie: honourable gentleman reminds an immediate ceasefire. ii2 honourable gentleman reminds this house of the seriousness of the issue before us. he reminds us not just of the ceasefire but the long yards and roads to peace. and that is why, in the labour motion, we talk about compliance with the icj ruling for international law, we talk about palestinian recognition and the road to that two state solution, and we are absolutely clear that we should do nothing in this chamber that cuts across the
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hard work of arab partners, eu partners, the united states, our five allies who are in the room trying to broker that peace. and we saw that with some humbleness on the opposition side of this house because neither of us are in the room. i give way. i because neither of us are in the room. i give way.— because neither of us are in the room. i give way. i am very grateful to the shadow _ room. i give way. i am very grateful to the shadow minister _ room. i give way. i am very grateful to the shadow minister for - room. i give way. i am very grateful to the shadow minister for giving i to the shadow minister for giving way. he is talking about how the snp's way. he is talking about how the snp�*s motion does not have any plan for a long lasting peace. that after an immediate ceasefire. i therefore want to know why the labour motion has included a caveat in it that notes that israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if hamas continues with violence. hamas is not the people of palestine. so why is that line in the labour amendment? the honourable — line in the labouramendment? ii2 honourable lady is as educated as i,
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she understands that a ceasefire takes two sides! so it is crystal clear that if we expect israel to lay down their arms we must ask hamas to do the same excavation ori hamas to do the same excavation or i am very grateful to the right honourable gentleman for giving way, and i am very pleased to hear him making the point that any ceasefire has to be agreed and committed to by both sides. but unfortunately there was a ceasefire on the 6th of october and it was broken by hamas. the previous ceasefire end of last year was broken by hamas. why does he have any faith that if a ceasefire was agreed now hamas would stick to it? the ceasefire was agreed now hamas would stick to it? ., ., ., , stick to it? the honourable gentleman _ stick to it? the honourable gentleman makes - stick to it? the honourable gentleman makes a - stick to it? the honourable gentleman makes a good l stick to it? the honourable - gentleman makes a good point but stick to it? the honourable _ gentleman makes a good point but let us be clear the last that we saw came before there had been any release of any hostages. it came at
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a point when little humanitarian aid was going into gaza, and it is because of that pause that we saw some hostages released. and hamas did stop the rocket fire at that point. so as i say, we are all clear that we need an immediate humanitarian ceasefire the fighting needs to stop. but it is our belief also that if we get that ceasefire, we would also see more hostages released. and we are also listening to what hostage families themselves are saying in israel. if i mayjust make a little progress. and then i will come back to the honourable members. can i next turned to the government amendment. again, there are elements of it which we agree
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with. but there is a serious omission, and that is its failure to call for a ceasefire that is immediate. i don't believe, and i am looking forward to listening to the right honourable member when he gets to his feet, but i don't believe that the gap is unbridgeable. the foreign secretary says that he wants to fighting to stop now. that is mirroring the language of myself and the leader of the opposition. throughout this war the government have followed us, we called for the violence against west bank settlers to be sanctioned on the 6th of november and again on the 9th of november, the government moved on the 14th of december. for two years since borisjohnson's appalling letter, we have been calling for the government to accept the icj's
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conduct of all participants. the government moved on the 14th of december to dojust government moved on the 14th of december to do just that. for a decade, the labour party supported the recognition of the palestinian state as expressed in our motion earlier this month the foreign secretary moved to our position. so once again we ask the government to reflect on where the mood of this house is. and we ask members opposite to accept the language that we have moved today so that together we have moved today so that together we can speak with one voice. and i say that with all seriousness. all of us know that whilst we can debate theseissues of us know that whilst we can debate these issues in this house, the effect of them on the ground are something else entirely. but if the uk parliament, and this greatest of issues, can speak with one voice
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then perhaps we can generally make a difference. of course i give way to the honourable lady. i difference. of course i give way to the honourable lady.— the honourable lady. i thank him very much _ the honourable lady. i thank him very much for— the honourable lady. i thank him very much for giving _ the honourable lady. i thank him very much for giving way - the honourable lady. i thank him very much for giving way and - the honourable lady. i thank him very much for giving way and i i the honourable lady. i thank him i very much for giving way and i have been listening very carefully to the way he has been prosecuting the merits of each of the different amendments. i would merits of each of the different amendments. iwould point merits of each of the different amendments. i would point out there was a liberal democrat amendment which answered positively all of the points so far that have been made and was not selected, and ifeel thatis and was not selected, and ifeel that is a shame. i will be encouraging my party to vote for all amendments that push cause of peace, but i ask him, he mentions how this will be seen on the ground, the fact is after today, it is likely unfortunately that he headline that comes from parliament will be that a ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire, was rejected because of the lack of coordination between particularly the opposition benches. would he agree with me that we should and could have done better?— agree with me that we should and could have done better? well, i have hue
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could have done better? well, i have huge respeet — could have done better? well, i have huge respeet for _ could have done better? well, i have huge respect for the _ could have done better? well, i have huge respect for the honourable - huge respect for the honourable lady, huge respect for the honourable lady. she and i, since october the 7th, were together in our own meeting with middle east leaders talking about these very issues. the whole point i would say of the labour amendment is to give this house the opportunity to come together. and her poignant messages together. and her poignant messages to this house a few weeks ago are a reason why this is the moment to come together. i give way. i thank my honourable — come together. i give way. i thank my honourable friend _ come together. i give way. i thank my honourable friend for- come together. i give way. i thank my honourable friend for giving i come together. i give way. i thank. my honourable friend for giving way and of course i am very pleased to be supporting air immediate unitarian ceasefire and the recognition of palestine. when they desperately needed ceasefire does happen, it is my honourable friend agree that the government need to be doing everything that they can to mmp doing everything that they can to ramp up the amount of aid that is going into gaza, to try to save more lives? mt;
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going into gaza, to try to save more lives? ~ , going into gaza, to try to save more lives? y ., ., ., , lives? my right honourable friend raises the essential _ lives? my right honourable friend raises the essential point - lives? my right honourable friend raises the essential point as i lives? my right honourable friend raises the essential point as to i lives? my right honourable friend l raises the essential point as to why we are calling for that immediate humanitarian ceasefire at this moment. we all know that before this crisis about 500 trucks were getting in a day. today it is less than 95. today starvation is widespread. today starvation is widespread. today medical aid is hard to come by. the last hospitals are closing. and personal to me, because one of my children is adopted, there are now 17,000 young people who are orphaned in gaza. it is horrendous. and it is why the seriousness of this debate demands us all to act with one voice. i this debate demands us all to act with one voice.— this debate demands us all to act with one voice. i am grateful to my riaht with one voice. i am grateful to my right honourable _ with one voice. i am grateful to my right honourable friend _ with one voice. i am grateful to my right honourable friend for- with one voice. i am grateful to my right honourable friend for giving i right honourable friend for giving way and i agree with him that there needs to be an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. i agree with
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him, but that also needs to be in accordance with a clear political framework for a two state solution. otherwise you will have the same problem... if i may ask question. otherwise you may have the same problem a year or six months down the line. the question i ask in his this, people outside are fed up with politicians saying they want to state, and premises and leader of the opposition saying they want to state but not clarifying what to state but not clarifying what to state is. looking at the labour motion, does he now agree with me and other parliamentarians when we talk about a recognition of a viable palestinian state that would need to be in line with the united kingdom's undrafted un security council resolution 2112 with regards to what a recognised palestinian state needs to be, so people know and have a clear framework? because otherwise previous years, we keep calling for
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it, let's make it clear what that recognition is and a clear time when we will recognise that state. the honourable _ we will recognise that state. ii2 honourable gentleman raises a very important point and it is why in this motion we talk about that political solution. that is necessary. all of us know that it is not military and weapons that will bring an end to this crisis, it is the business that we are all in, political discussion and dialect, thatis political discussion and dialect, that is what will bring an end to this crisis. and he talks about the circumstances for that two state solution. recognition in of itself does not achieve that two state solution but it is our commitment, if we can work with partners, we are on a road and a journey man we have heard partners in other countries speaking to that issue at this point in time. most colleagues when they talk about those two states are thinking about 1967 borders, but i
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hear what he says about the various members. i am going to make some progress because many will want to get in on this debate and i don't want to dominate the whole debate. let me just make some progress and i will return to snp colleagues. mr speaker, labour's amendment reflects the common sense and the noble purpose of the british people. they see the endless killing of innocents and find it intolerable. we want to see it stop now through an immediate humanitarian ceasefire and labour wants that immediate ceasefire not tomorrow, not in a number of days, but now. they see the prospect of an israeli ground offensive in rafa and know that it will only lead to more death and suffering. they want it to stop not tomorrow, not in 100 days, they wanted to stop now. they see they wanted to stop now. they see the families of hostages in agony whose capture is prolonging the agony, they want to see the hostages released not tomorrow, not in 100 days, they want them released now.
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the common—sense of the british people understand that rules exist for a reason that the international rule of law must be followed. they want israel to comply with the icj's provisional measures not tomorrow, not in 100 days, bit now. and of the british people understands that no ceasefire can be one—sided, they know that it is not enough just for hamas are just for israel to stop firing rockets, they want both sides to stop, not tomorrow, not in another 100 days, but now explanation or i give way. i am crateful explanation or i give way. i am grateful to _ explanation or i give way. i am grateful to my _ explanation or i give way. i am grateful to my right _ explanation or i give way. i am grateful to my right honourable friend. he makes the point that it is only going to be politics and diplomacy that can take is to that two state solution. that underpins why it is necessary to have that ceasefire on both sides, the return of the hostages. it is incumbent on all of us who have debated that two state solution for decades, this now has to be a wake—up call and the international community coming together to insist that the rights
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of israelis and palestinians are now recognised. but to do that and to begin that process we need this house today to vote for that ceasefire. i house today to vote for that ceasefire-— house today to vote for that ceasefire. ., ceasefire. i agree with the right honourable _ ceasefire. i agree with the right honourable gentleman - ceasefire. i agree with the right honourable gentleman and i i ceasefire. i agree with the right| honourable gentleman and i ask ceasefire. i agree with the right i honourable gentleman and i ask him to vote for the labour amendment. i give way. i to vote for the labour amendment. i live wa . ., to vote for the labour amendment. i live wa . . ., ., give way. i am grateful to the shadow minister, _ give way. i am grateful to the shadow minister, and - give way. i am grateful to the shadow minister, and on i give way. i am grateful to the shadow minister, and on his i give way. i am grateful to the i shadow minister, and on his point about a matter of days elapsing and are no more days to elapse, the official opposition where he had just 16 days ago with their own opposition and they were discussing ministerial severance. why, i wonder, can be shadow minister tell me that they did not have the same priority for the people of gaza as they had for ministerial severance just 16 days ago? i they had for ministerial severance just 16 days ago?— just 16 days ago? i have been callin: just 16 days ago? i have been calling for— just 16 days ago? i have been calling for the _ just 16 days ago? i have been calling for the fighting - just 16 days ago? i have been calling for the fighting to i just 16 days ago? i have been | calling for the fighting to stop four weeks! the leader of the opposition has been calling for the
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fighting to stop four weeks excavation i say to the honourable gentleman that i was in the west bank... i was in egypt, i was in qatar, i was in the uae, i was in saudi arabia, that is how seriously we take this issue! none of us have... , ., ., ., have... order explanation might order excavation _ have... order explanation might order excavation or _ have... order explanation might order excavation or please, i have... order explanation might order excavation or please, it i have... order explanation might order excavation or please, it is| order excavation or please, it is meant — order excavation or please, it is meant to— order excavation or please, it is meant to be going through the chair. david _ meant to be going through the chair. david lammy. meant to be going through the chair. david lammy— meant to be going through the chair. david lamm . ., ., , ~ ., ,, david lammy. none of us, mr speaker, have more moral _ david lammy. none of us, mr speaker, have more moral authority _ david lammy. none of us, mr speaker, have more moral authority than - david lammy. none of us, mr speaker, have more moral authority than each i have more moral authority than each of us acting to pass a motion and to speak with one voice in this house today. the british people have seen the spectre of violence in northern ireland over many decades and they understand that a ceasefire is not the final destination but a step on the final destination but a step on the road to a lasting peace. one
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that requires hard negotiation, a road map for a political process, there is no way out of the crisis without hope that both palestinians and israelis have a path to security. tojustice and israelis have a path to security. to justice and and israelis have a path to security. tojustice and opportunity in land that they can call their own. progress will require genuine partners for peace on both sides of the table. hamas and israeli hardliners want to bury a two state solution. and we must now unite to show that we will not let that happen. and as i said before, my discussions with the united states, with european and arab leaders in munich, have made clear the widespread acknowledgement that the need to urgently seek that just and lasting solution, a sovereign and viable palestinian state, a safe and secure israel, which is strong trusting relations with the countries in the region, that is the price. i do not underestimate the great pain and division that must be overcome nor the challenges ahead.
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the uk cannot advance this agenda on its own. but it can also —— it can also sit this one out. it is time for the international community to stand up, achieve and enter the fighting and a path to peace, and the uk must play its part. that is why our amendment makes it explicit that will not give up on a two state solution, it makes it clear that we will work with international partners to recognise a palestinian state, as a contribution to rather than an outcome to astute state solution. mr speaker, in this house, we are used to division because our trade is politics. but on this matter we must rise above it. when the british people are so clear and are so concerned from truro to inverness, and let no one tell us they take no interest in foreign affairs. we did not send a powerful message if once we could come together as a house for the sake of the nation, for the sake of peace?
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mr speaker, in the spirit we designed our motion that my honourable friends to the left and to the right of me on the government benches at across from me may vote for, it is my appeal to those in this house that we come together calling in one voice to end the killing, for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire that calls on both sides to stop, united parliament today can show that we are rolling up our sleeves, committing to a long, hard road to peace, so that we will have made the voice of our nation herd to influence this war, to help these tragic children of the same land to find peace. in the beautiful palestinian palestine of tomorrow and in israel without tears, where the stones ofjerusalem shall finally be a city of peace. i beg that this house approves the labour amendment.
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that this house approves the labour amendment-— that this house approves the labour amendment._ mr. amendment. sandra mitchell. mr seaker, amendment. sandra mitchell. mr speaker. this _ amendment. sandra mitchell. mr speaker, this has _ amendment. sandra mitchell. mr speaker, this has already - amendment. sandra mitchell. mr speaker, this has already been . amendment. sandra mitchell. mr| speaker, this has already been an extremely interesting debate. we heard from the honourable gentleman the shadow foreign secretary... i will give way later but i am not giving way for the moment. mr speaker, he spoke about the huge benefit of us speaking with one voice. we heard the memberfor foyle talk about the more cohesion in the house existing than people currently think. we heard from another member about the importance of there being some humility, i think it was the honourable gentleman, the shadow foreign secretary, because members of parliament are not in the room. i emphasise that the government is in the room and there was a call that we should lift the tone today. room and there was a cull that we should lift the tone for today. he
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says, the another gentleman for tottenham, we should come together. and i submit that the right thing to do tonight is to support the government's motion, the opposition has been very supportive in the past. i think with the house speaking with both the opposition and the government, with one voice, that was very helpful to britain making the argument is that he and i both share in the east. we will later move our amendment. i want to be sure that the house will consider this very seriously in the same tone that the right honourable gentleman, the shadow foreign secretary, has said. ouramendment says that the house supports israel's right to self defence,
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condemns the slaughter,

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