this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. last year, during a brief visit to belfast, presidentjoe biden hailed the transformative impact of peace in northern ireland. it had unleashed, he said, a churn of creativity and that surely struck a chord with my guest today, the actor ciaran hinds, who was nominated for an oscar in kenneth branagh�*s autobiographical movie

about belfast, which is home city to both of those men. one generation on from the so—called troubles, northern ireland is seen as creative and cool, but have the wounds of the past really healed? ciaran hinds, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. now you are a man of belfast, born and raised there, and i think, as ijust mentioned, it's fair to say there is a real creative buzz around belfast and northern ireland today. but when you were a youth there,

growing up, was it a place that you felt, as a sort of creative soul that you needed to get out of? it wasn't a place that i felt i needed to get out of. i mean, i did eventually, but there was a reason for that was because my chosen profession turned out to be acting, and there were no theatre schools in ireland at that time. so i left the island for the first time, to go to london, to a theatre school, to train. but when i was growing up, it was different days. i mean, we're talking about the �*50s into the �*60s, and there was a lot we didn't know about the world, and we only learnt about it by going down to the central library, and opening big books, and finding out that way.

and in a way, i guess the world, we made our own worlds then, we didn't look out to the world, we made our own, between, i guess what we watched on television, in black and white, and just children's imaginative, inventive games, stories we'd heard. our childhood was, in a way, really innocent and very free. i mean, this was in the �*50s and �*60s. yeah. and interesting you say that, �*50s and earlier �*60s, when, of course, there was peace in northern ireland, and that relative peace, anyway, there were tensions, but there was relative peace. and then all of that changed in the very late �*60s. and we know this, not least from the film that you were involved with, with kenneth branagh, which so powerfully portrayed that moment in, i think, 1969, when the communal sectarian tensions in northern ireland really spilled over. and it was, in a sense, the beginning of what became known as the era of the troubles. did that onset of real street violence encourage your feeling that it might be right to leave this place? no.

at that stage i was still at secondary school, at a grammar school, and i was 15, 16. and the truth is, not a lot happened in the north of ireland, where we came from. fashions, kind of global news always came to us kind of a long time after it had hit london or england. we were always kind of a sweep, afterwards, ifound, and the idea that something was suddenly... ..in a way, not tearing the city apart — it was going to, or the northern part, but it was suddenly a huge excitement, you know, for a 16, 15, 16—year—old boys, you suddenly go, "wow, the world's alive." it's alive. it's dangerous. it was petrol bombs on the streets. it was the british army then moving in. understood. it was frightening, was it not? it became very, very frightening,

very dangerous, and very, very horrible — terrible. but what i'm trying to say is the innocence of 15—year—old, 16—year—old boys, they don't have the maturity or the understanding to realise what's going to happen, how terrible this is going to be, and how it will get thicker and deeper, and much more dangerous, and how it will... ..i mean, the communities were rent asunderfor 30 years. they were. but, at 15, you don't recognise that. but i'm also thinking, goodness, late teens is the time in which many young men in northern ireland at that time were then pulled in to their hardline community activists who were going to persuade them to join the struggle. now, you were from the catholic side of belfast, and ijust wonder whether there was ever a moment during this onset of real sectarian violence, whether you ever came close to getting pulled into that? erm...| did, yeah. how?

i was at university for a bit, in queen's, and there was all kinds of movements going on in queen's. but we have to differentiate, i really think, between what was happening and what kind of hardline republicanism was starting to happen, and the idea of the movement of civil rights. northern ireland civil rights. one was — came from behind another, and started to take over in the mainstream. but the basis of all the — what were they going to talk, challenging the state of northern ireland was about gerrymandering and one man, one vote. we'd already seen what had happened in america, with martin luther king and the right for civil rights, basic civil rights, and it was — this was in the early �*60s. and people started to march for civil rights based at the university, people's democracy, in �*68 — �*67, �*68. the idea that this is not an equal society in any way. i mean, it's very interesting, because if that was on the mainland, in great britain, they'd say, "this is ridiculous." but this was the system that had been set up, and basically was an abuse of, of democracy. as you say, there is a very clear distinction between the civil rights movement and then what became

the provisional ira and an armed struggle, which was directed then at getting the british out of northern ireland, and in the long run, seeking unity... the unification of ireland. ..of the island. did you ever have contact with those groups known as the provisionals? no, ididn�*t. no, i didn't, i'm glad to say. i mean, there were movements in university, talking about how left—wing do you want to be, how radical, etc. but does that mean you would pick up a gun? you know, i'd always drew the line there. that's just not my nature. thinking about your life after that, because, of course, as you said, you left northern ireland to go to drama school, and you've had a long and very varied career in many different parts of the world. but do you think that background of yours has given you a political outlook, a consciousness of social, economicjustice and the need to be engaged and involved? yes, that was part of my childhood.

but as i tell you, stephen, we were still very naive back then, when this was all happening. so this recognition of what was going on almost happened after i'd left, and i started to look with eyes from outside, not from inside, and i started to see — the difference... ..a very simple parallel would be when i left, we could feel the oppression of the british army in the north of ireland, when i left, because militarily, there were the tanks, the, what they call the pig saracen, as an army all over belfast. and i just saw these big men in, you know, uniform and weapons, and i come back, coming backwards and forwards, but suddenly it hit me, probably towards the end of the �*70s, when i was now 26, 27, was, i was looking at 18—year—olds in these uniforms. i was not looking at, when i was18, 19, looking at these big, you know, men, dangerous fellows looking at me. i'm now looking at these young boys,

18—year—olds in the garb. and that's quite a wake—up call as well. you've been back to northern ireland to work, on a number of occasions, but what i was struck by was you going back, with all of the cast, to what was a pretty special red carpet premiere, in northern ireland, of the movie, and of course most of the audience would be belfast people looking and wanting to know whether you had captured the real essence of their city at that particular time. what kind of reaction did you get? well, i rememberjust before we were going to be introduced, to this very, very full house of 2,500 people, with this big event of bringing belfast to belfast. and i was with jamie dornan, and we were just sitting, and we were both a bit nervous, not that we didn't believe that kenneth had made a beautiful film about,

about the world then. but that feeling that this could go either way. "how dare you presume to understand the complexities "of that time and from whose perspective, "and what agenda are you going to take?" and in the heart of it, i was saying tojamie, i said, "the truth, people will have different views on this film, "especially from the north, theyjust will. "but we are looking at it through the eyes "of a nine—year—old boy. and if people cannot divorce their own agendas, "their own driven attitudes to what they believe is right "and the other wrong, if they cannotjust go back "into themselves and the innocence, "and look through the eyes of a nine—year—old, "the wonder of the world, "and certainly how that world has changed and turned "and becomes desperate and dangerous, "i mean, what does that say for us as human beings? "no matter where you come from."

and so we went out, still rather trepidatious. and there was this — at the end of it, there were a few naysayers, because, of course, begrudgery is everywhere. but at the same time, there was this great, beautiful feeling in the house that actually this was done with love. this was done with love. at the time, it was difficult, but that it was done, and through a memory and a deep memory that ken branagh always carried with him. and you do too, i dare say. ido, yeah. just a final question about northern ireland before we move on to lots else in your life and career. butjoe biden, last year, went back to belfast to mark the 25th anniversary of the good friday agreement, and he talked about the transformative progress, and he did make a point about young people, and how much creativity there is in northern ireland today. and yet if you actually look at that place, it is still divided, deeply divided, culturally,

along sectarian lines. most kids in northern ireland still go to religion—based schools. if you walk around neighbourhoods, you still see the walls dividing the protestant and catholic communities. you still see the flags, the marches, the graffiti, which are all symbols of division. do you think your homeland has truly transformed or not? i think it's going to take more time, to be very honest, and i get very disappointed. my sister's always — i've always stayed there and worked to progress people, to make things reach out, and make and change and open to the next generation. so your sister's stayed? yeah. and you are the only one who... yeah. and, erm... ..sometimes i get a little depressed, but i shouldn't be, because people are there on the ground working, working, trying to make this happen. and as we know through history,

it doesn't take that many belligerents to hold up process. so you say we're trying to make it happen, and i guess you mean, you know... ..a peaceful community... in the north of ireland, yes. because you also, in a political sense, believe that the destiny of northern ireland is one day to be unified with the republic, to be one united ireland. do i believe in it? to me, and quite honestly, whether it happens or not is neither here nor there to me, because i believe more so the way my feet dance, the music i listen to, is kind of irish. but that doesn't say that i don't have a great love and affection for a lot of english or british things. one does not dissociate the other, and that's part of the problem. we have a lot of people who say, like, "that's the way we are. that's wrong." it's just — it's too embedded, and the more progressive politics that we need in the north of ireland, we really need it. that's why i was very disappointed about the democratic unionist party, you know. of course, we're celebrating today because they finally said after two years, "we will try and move forward." but, you know, of any culture anywhere, when you face the people who keep saying, "no, never, notan inch, "surrender, i'll take the ball, we're and going home. "we're not playing, because..." we are not going anywhere,

and until people learn to reach out and have the discussions, the debates, the arguments, unless you sit around the table, and for the better, for the betterment of the generations to come, that's what we're talking about, the betterment of generations to come. and i think this younger generation, they're not interested so much in orange or green, or which side or — this is dyed in the wool, people would look, you know, other perspectives from over the world, they're looking at what is the problem over there. when they look at the other horrors in the world, greater horrors, what is this problem that they can't live together? and if you want to divide it simplistically along catholic, protestant, orange, green, but there's a deeper thing, and i think it's about having humanist values, genuinely humanist values. finding the humanity. either side and each part, seeing the difficulties, and all that, and reaching out. because if you don't — i mean, the integrated education fund, the ief, is very, very important to the future of the north. it's about integrated education. now, i'm going to take you away from northern ireland now. 0k. i'm going to ask you to reflect

on a very long and varied career. you've had formal training at rada, one of the great drama schools. i think you spent some time at the royal shakespeare company. you've spent a lot of time onstage. but you also, in the course of your career, have been connected, in different ways, to some of the biggest box office franchises of recent times, from game of thrones to, i think, a brief appearance in harry potter, all sorts of other experiences that have taken you to hollywood and elsewhere. in the end, what has given you the greatest satisfaction? is it connecting with a vast audience, as you sometimes have, or is it in the more intimate, creative challenge that maybe didn't reach so many people? i think to me, the work that we do as actors, which is part of the storytelling and where we have to go in it, i think there's nothing that moves you more profoundly... ..than the sound of absolute silence in a theatre... ..when, i don't know, it could be 500, it could be 300, could be 900 people, who all come in singularly

or in couples. and at that moment, i'm live, it's onstage and the spell has been woven somehow. you've been taken to another place, another time, but you're in a theatre. so it's not really — you know it's fabricated, but because of the — whatever has gone on there, you sometimes find an audience all breathing with the one breath. it's such an interesting reflection, but is it getting harder to find that silence, that intensity? we've had actors sounding off about audiences which bring with them a short attention span, some of them literally bring with them their smartphones and start playing with them. others are described as tourists, who aren't really bothered about the story they're watching unfold. do you, as an actor, feel it's harder now to find the audience that's prepared to give itself to you? i can honestly say, in the last four or five or six theatre projects i've been involved in, that hasn't really been an issue.

now, i haven't been in theatre since covid arrived, so that's three years. and maybe there's something else in the air that has brought people back to the theatre because it's very important to get people back to the theatre, because theatre, certainly in london and everywhere, was decimated by it. so the idea's to get people back in, but i don't know what maybe has changed for all these people using all the social media in the absence of live connections with people, understanding that there is a point where you have to be quiet, listen, in a conversation, or if everybody�*s just bouncing off all the time with the machines, maybe that's affected a way of when you go out your whole — your whole narrative�*s about somehow self, self—invested and not looking outwards. i guess one of the issues you have to face as an actor is that the money, and the big money, is really in movies, in the sort of big series the platforms now launch and plough

vast amounts of money into. does that worry you, that that's going to take you in a direction that isn't necessarily the most creative? no. i can honestly say i have done some jobs for a pay cheque. but you haven't. .. but mostly the part. yeah. can you think of one, that you can tell me about? no, i couldn't tell you about it. just like, "what am i doing here?" i was a gun for hire in a way, you know, a gun for hire. you go, you do your best, do your work, but somehow what is missing is the kernel of deep interest and wondering, what are we going to do? what are we — how are we going to make this? but that hasn't happened often to me, i have to say. i've been very fortunate, and somehow wondered why i got to work with some extraordinary people. erm... and therefore, maybe the choices have been made for me, or made by me, i've always been vastly interested in the projects i do. do you worry about the amount of agency actors have? you know, we recently had the strike in the united states where actors, as well as screenwriters,

were expressing deep concern, for a start about the way artificial intelligence may affect the way your performances are used, and you, perhaps, ciaran hinds, could be created digitally, and use your voice or your appearance. that might be a good thing! well, would it? it would be a good thing for... stay in bed. well... rambling somewhere in some gorgeous scenery. meanwhile, i'm working at the same time. there's also — i know you're kidding, but there was also an issue that actors expressed that they don't get fair pay, for example, for repeats, for what they call residuals in the united states, and i just wonder whether you think actors need... ..well, the example was the strike, to act collectively, to safeguard this precarious profession of yours.

yes, ithink — i mean, what was very interesting was how collective it was, that strike, and the issues, i guess... did it cost you money? me personally? yes. no, because, i — it was coincidentally... ..i had decided to take some time out. because i had been going from pillar to post, working and doing stuff, and ijust realised, "i'm a bit tired actually." you know, i hit 70, i'm going, like... and that idea, you're fooling yourself you're young because you keep going and suddenly you stop for a moment, and you go like, "oh, maybe a bit of a break "would be in order." but interestingly, your daughter aoife is also a successful actor. i just wonder whether there was any ever a point when you — and your wife, too, is an actor, whether you and her mum, yourwife... helene. ..said to aoife, "this

isn't necessarily a wise "career choice of yours." well, we did say that at the very beginning anyway, as indeed my parents had said it to me. they said, you know, this... i mean, when i started off, there was some of — the facts were there was 86% unemployment, at any given time, in the acting industry. but in the acting industry then, we were theatre people, we weren't film, television, streaming services, we were theatre actors. and you know, as time moves, and we try and keep up with it, basically, we develop our skills to work in different medium, but we're not — we weren't initially trained the way the younger generation are now. i think they're well able for it. i would say, and quite honestly, if i was — with my attitude to my work and stuff, if i was to have a go again today, i don't know if i'd be able to hack it. it's a different world. there's one thing i bet you were never trained for at drama school, and that is performing an intimate, let's be more blunt, a sex scene with your own wife, because that's what you recently did on telly, in a series, the dry, where you were a sort of ageing,

disappointed bloke, who had an affair, and the actor playing the woman you had the affair with was your actual wife. and i think i read somewhere that you actually had an intimacy coach for those scenes, which struck me as kind of weird, given that you and your wife have been together for an awful long time. but we've been needing lessons for a very long time, stephen. he chuckles certainly i did. no, it was kind of ludicrous and funny, and i talked to the director paddy breathnach, who's making this thing, and i said "this scene that has been written, "that nancy has written, it's shocking, it's ridiculous, "and i don't think it's... ..it�*s true to what would happen." he said, "yeah, i know, "but it's really about the effect that happens "on your daughter who sees it. "it's not about whether you, at your age, "would be caught cavorting alfresco "behind some bins up an alleyway."

and i said, "yeah, but you wouldn't." but anyway, push comes to shove, paddy would ask me on a regular basis, every couple of days, "how are you about that scene? how are you about that scene?" and i said, "well, now that you've cast helene, "my lovely wife, we can have a laugh about it anyway." so we go and do it, and we did have an intimacy coordinator, and she... paddy said, "well, do you want to talk to her?" i said, "of course we'll say hello, but i think we'll be ok." and it turned out that she had worked with our daughter on normal people. she'd basically sexed up the whole family, you know. she did the lot of us. we're almost out of time, butjust on a semi—serious note about the same thing. do you think values have changed, both in terms of the way the industry now portrays sex and violence? i just wonder whether you see changing values. yeah. yeah, ido. but whose values are they? i mean, i'm not going to be here to say the values of people should be, or whatever they are. the telling of stories can

be done in many ways. it can be blunt, it can be brutal, it can be subtle, it can be — you can hint at it, it can be imaginative. itjust depends on the tellers of those stories, and the idea of breaking down barriers and pushing more sex, more violence doesn't particularly appeal to me, because either — well, how does it progress the story or how does it shine light on? of course it's part of life, and, yes, it should be shown, but it's the kind of pushing it towards the element, which is again about selling, and making, you know, hits on, whatever you call them, bing, bing, bongs on the internet. but in short, you will continue telling stories. that is pretty clear to me. i think i'll certainly keep reading them, and i hope to be involved in telling them. yeah, hopefully. yes, i would. yeah. ciaran hinds, it's been an absolute pleasure. thanks for being on hardtalk. thank you very much, steve. pleasure. thank you.

hello there. it's been a pretty wet but mild february. however, thursday saw a change with this weather front, bringing some heavy rain for a time, then as it pushed its way steadily east, northwesterly wind direction kicked in and that had quite a dramatic impact to the feel of the weather wednesday afternoon. temperatures above the average mid—teens quite widely. by thursday, they were half that value and just below where by thursday, they were half that value and just below where they should be for this time of year. that's also translated into a pretty chilly start to friday morning. low single figures for many, and we haven't seen temperature values like that for quite some time. so certainly a shock to the system. but it will also be accompanied by hopefully some sunshine through central and eastern england and eastern scotland. there will be some showers out to the west with that brisk northwesterly wind and some of these will feed further inland as the day continues. wintry to higher ground. but a cool story again, seven to nine degrees.

this is where the temperatures should be really for this time of year. now, as we go through friday evening, some of those showers will tend to fade away and under clearing skies, those temperatures will fall even further. so saturday morning is going to be a cold start with a frost likely in rural parts as temperatures fall below freezing. so, yes, a cold start, but again, this quiet theme is set to continue. a good deal of fine weather, a few coastal showers in scotland, the risk of some showers moving through south wales and southern england for a time. but on the whole, most of us seeing some dry, sunny weather. and again, those temperatures just about scraping into double figures, if we're lucky. but for most of us, generally, between seven and nine degrees. slight problem on sunday with this area of low pressure in the fronts. now, there is the potential for that to just be a little bit further north, and if that happens, the rain could be further north. so we'll need to keep firming up on those details. but at the moment, it looks likely just to affect south west england and the channels and maybe just fringing with the channel coast for a time. more cloud across southern england,

but elsewhere, largely fine and quiet. and again, temperatures between seven and nine degrees. now, that quieter theme is going to continue monday into tuesday. but as we move through the middle part of the week, the risk is it's turning increasingly wetter. but also the milder weather is set to return as well.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines... the first ever private spacecraft successfully lands on the moon's surface. odysseus touched down on the lunar south pole where scientists hope there could be a source of water. �* ., ., water. but we are on the surface _ water. but we are on the surface and _ water. but we are on the surface and we _ water. but we are on the surface and we are - surface and we are transmitting, and welcome to the moon. transmitting, and welcome to the moon-— transmitting, and welcome to the moon. ., , ., the moon. four people have died in a fire in _ the moon. four people have died in a fire in a _ the moon. four people have died in a fire in a residential _ in a fire in a residential building in the spanish city of valencia. the head of the us house of china committee's entire want to meet with the president to show solidarity with the island. presidentjoe biden meets the wife and daughter of russian opposition leader alexei navalny as the mother said she's finally seen his body. translation: , , ., ., translation: they should have . ive translation: they should have cive me translation: they should have give me his _ translation: they should have give me his body _ translation: they should have give me his body immediately, l

give me his body immediately, and said they