back then, france and germany blocked that and it didn't happen. and the same applied to georgia, by the way, when the russian attack against georgia happened. and then, in 2014, we witnessed the russian attack against ukraine and the beginning of the occupation of crimea. and donetsk, luhansk, donetsk and luhansk. and then in 2022, a full scale aggression. from a historical perspective, it was the west that didn't pass the exam, as a matter of fact, because if they had listened to the words of brzezinski in 2008, which he said in tbilisi, that today russia is attacking georgia, it has to be stopped at all costs, because if it does not stop, perhaps soon ukraine will come as the next victim, then maybe the baltic states, and then perhaps my country, poland. if those words had been listened to back then, if back then it had been implemented what george bush had wanted from nato�*s supported by kaczynski.

perhaps history would have taken a different turn if ukraine would have been admitted into nato, that war would have never happened because i believe russia wouldn't have dared attack nato. and today we have a war. but i believe and i want to stress this, to conclude this part, because it's what you're referring to. i do not believe that russia will attack nato countries, any nato countries, that it will dare to have an open war against nato�*s with the north atlantic alliance. if you take a look at article five on collective defense and if you take into account how far over the last two years russia has been trying to conquer ukraine, it hasn't been able to deal with the ukrainian nation. and the heroism. it's interesting you talk about collective defense because i want to talk

about donald trump and his comments a few weeks ago. you know him very well because you chaired the nato summit here in warsaw that he attended. you signed a strategic partnership with him back in 2018. so perhaps you know him better than any other european leader. the point he made critically undermines the central tenet of the north atlantic treaty, and that is collective security come what may. and yet he is saying if you don't pay, i'm not going to protect you. surely you see that? first of all, we have to bear in mind two things. there is an election campaign going on in the united states. in campaigns, different words are set. in campaigns, different words are said. in campaigns, you often use sharper language than you normally use in politics. donald trump. right from the start, since he was first elected president of the united states of america, was clearly saying that he expected nato members to live up

to their commitments. we as part of nato. all of us have committed ourselves to spend no less than 2% of our gdp on defense, no less. therefore, donald trump is saying, i expect that every nato member, since there is such an obligation to commit 2% on defense. and he says if somebody does not commit 2% of their defense, then i'm sorry. what are we waiting for, for the us to go and defend them? that's an american taxpayer is going to pay for their security. but he says specifically, you got to pay. if you don't, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. money is quite categorically undermining what the treaty is all about. i have one experience with the former presidents of the united states, donald trump, when he was serving as president of the united states. everything that he agreed with me

on back then was implemented. does it work two ways? will you go to washington next month to mark the 25th anniversary of poland's accession to nato�*s? of poland's accession to nato? will you go and tell donald trump and house republicans that they need to unlock this money for ukraine? i hope that the assistance will be admitted. he's blocking it. it is mr trump that's blocking it. now, it is in the house of representatives. there is a political debate going on in the united states. but on the other hand, please bear in mind that no one else but the united states of america has so far given a bigger amount of assistance to ukraine. without that assistance from the united states, i'm not sure if ukraine would be able to defend itself until today. of course, america has a democratic state. debates are going on. discussions are going on. however, right now, $95 million is in play in the house of representatives, and i hope that it will be donated for ukraine

by the american authorities, by the congress. of course, unappealing all the time to admit this support to ukraine, of course, i'm appealing all the time to admit this support to ukraine, because ukraine does need it in order to be able to resist effectively the russian invasion. i want to ask you about a discussion that's ongoing now in brussels about how we respond to what's going on in ukraine. do you think there needs to be a pandemic style response to the defense problem in europe, perhaps a recovery fund that drives procurement and manufacturing, a central fund that drives that? first of all, i think that the sanctions policy is good and i believe it is effective. and although there are some voices saying that the sanctions policy is not working and so on and so forth, as a matter of fact, this is not true. sanctions are having an effect on russia, and they are painfulfor russians. they bring huge losses to the russian economy and bring

relatively lower living standards. they are painful for russian oligarchs. they are very heavily limiting the possibilities for the russian defense industry to develop. but of course, they are being circumvented. this is always the case. russia tries to circumvent those sanctions in many different ways, but the sanctions are being implemented and they have to be continued. the russian financial market needs to be hit. the russian banking sector needs to be hit. and that is why i believe that europe should be going in this direction. it should implement more sanctions packages against russia. it should be hitting those soft spots, such as exports of different raw materials from russia. should it appropriate the russian funds that are frozen? yes. i also believe that those proposals that the frozen russian assets, which are kept in different funds and banks across the globe, could be earmarked for the restoration of ukraine, generally, i think we need to overcome the barrier

which stops everything today. some might say we cannot use it, that there are legal obstacles and so on and so forth. i believe that has to be overcome. there are huge russian assets stored in current accounts all over the world. these have been blocked and i believe that they should be used in order to restore ukraine's that they should be used in order to restore ukraine. however, irrespective of this, i believe that we need to start within the framework of the european union. we need to start conducting an efficient policy of rebuilding the european military potential, the production potential. that is why we need joint production of ammunition within the european union, ammunition which we have big shortfalls of. we need huge discussions, serious discussions about the joint rebuilding of the european defence industry, joint construction of different kinds of armaments. we've limited time, i want to very quickly ask you about domestic issues

here in in poland. there was a record turnout at the last election. how do you see your role in the wake of that election? are you an independent arbiter of parliament's work or are you simply here to block the reforms the old populist government didn't want? i can see my role in a very simple way. first and foremost, it is a constitutional role to a certain extent, being an arbiter, as you say, on the political stage. that is why i'm peacefully looking at what is happening in the parliament, but i'm also the guardian of the constitution. every proposal which is put on the table, especially a legislative proposal, every act of law that is passed by the parliament, i look at it through the lens of the constitution. every action that is conducted by the current government, i'm looking at it from the point of view of the constitution, whether it is legal, whether it is in conformity with the constitution, whether the procedures are

in conformity with the constitution. that is the most interesting element to me. whenever i am asked, are you going to veto acts of law? are you going to block? i'm saying the following thing. i was running for president back in 2015 and then again in 2020. every time i won the election with a concrete programme which has been implemented to a large extent, if the attempts were made right now in the last election, the former opposition won and now the executive power in poland has changed. so you have a mandate? we have a new government. of course i have got my mandate and they have got their mandate. so, let me test that. let me test that, because obviously the reason the the polish funds are frozen at the eu level is because in the eu's view, parliament government took too much involvement in the appointment ofjudges. so mr bodnar, the newjustice secretary, wants to strip parliament of influence over the national

council of the judiciary. the chairwoman of that council was appointed by the law and justice party. he wants to remove parliament's involvement. do you support that or would you veto it? so, my general position is as follows i'm open to every single conversation about legislative proposals which the current government could have or the current parliamentary majority. and that is what i said. i communicated it to both the prime minister and to the ministers. please come to me. talk to me. you will then find out what my position is on any concrete proposals. that is my stance of not about concrete proposals. i believe that the government has the right to present proposals of change. but as i said, there isjust one red line, a red line which cannot be crossed. i will not let any kind of verification of the nominations ofjudges, appointment ofjudges, which i gave over the period of the last eight years, who are

sitting in the courts passing judgments and deciding on people's cases. and if anyone tries to verify those appointments, this will undermine the judgments which have been passed so far by the polish courts by speaking about 4000 judges. i will not allow this to happen. this is where i put a decisive no. i know you're very conservative on social issues. a referendum on abortion, yes or no? i know that this topic is out of discussion because it was rejected on the political stage actually, so there is no topic for discussion and it is controversial whether we should make a referendum concerning human life. mr tusk says it will be a decision on 12 weeks. i think that's a discussion on any kind of referendum about human life. to put it mildly, to put it mildly, it's as controversial as a controversial idea. off the table? i always stick to one principle. the president in poland is the last

link of the legislative procedure. and i keep repeating that i will assess all legislative proposals when they are adopted by the parliament and according to the procedure, they will land on my table and this is what i'm going to say also in this case. but we have to remember that in poland there is a constitutional tribunal judgment in this particular case. and it is not to say that abortion is banned by law at all. no, according to the acts that we now have in force and according to the case law of the constitutional tribunal, it is admissible into cases when pregnancy poses a risk to a woman's life and if pregnancy is the result of rape. so these are two exceptions from the ban on abortion that are still binding in poland. president duda, it's been very good to talk to you. thank you.

live from washington, this is bbc news.

a spokeswoman for alexei navalny says officials are threatening to bury him at the arctic prison where he died. it comes as the biden administration targets russia with hundreds of new sanctions. the us secretary of state says new israeli settlements in the west bank are illegal, as ceasefire talks on gaza get under way in paris. plus, on the eve of the south carolina primary, donald trump is looking for a knock—out win against his only remaining challenger for the republican nomination, nikki haley. hello, i'm caitriona perry. you are very welcome. saturday marks two years since russia began its invasion of ukraine, even as the fallout from alexei navalny�*s death only intensifies. in response to both those events, the us and eu are imposing over 500 new sanctions on russia.

russia's main card payment system, its financial