claimants have item that the claimants have advanced. _ item that the claimants have advanced, and _ item that the claimants have advanced, and i— item that the claimants have advanced, and i think- item that the claimants have advanced, and i think one i item that the claimants have advanced, and i think one of| item that the claimants have - advanced, and i think one of the real problems _ advanced, and i think one of the real problems we _ advanced, and i think one of the real problems we have - advanced, and i think one of the real problems we have is - advanced, and i think one of the real problems we have is we - advanced, and i think one of the real problems we have is we are being _ real problems we have is we are being asked _ real problems we have is we are being asked to _ real problems we have is we are being asked to prove _ real problems we have is we are being asked to prove things - real problems we have is we are being asked to prove things that real problems we have is we are - being asked to prove things that are self—evident and _ being asked to prove things that are self—evident and i— being asked to prove things that are self—evident and i will _ being asked to prove things that are self—evident and i will give - being asked to prove things that are self—evident and i will give you a - self—evident and i will give you a tangible — self—evident and i will give you a tangible example. _ self—evident and i will give you a tangible example. over- self—evident and i will give you a tangible example. over the - self—evident and i will give you a tangible example. over the lasti tangible example. over the last three _ tangible example. over the last three years _ tangible example. over the last three years we _ tangible example. over the last three years we have _ tangible example. over the last three years we have submittedl tangible example. over the last- three years we have submitted into the post _ three years we have submitted into the post office _ three years we have submitted into the post office 100 _ three years we have submitted into the post office 100 medical- three years we have submitted into the post office 100 medical reports that have _ the post office 100 medical reports that have a — the post office 100 medical reports that have a common— the post office 100 medical reports that have a common theme - the post office 100 medical reports that have a common theme about i that have a common theme about people _ that have a common theme about peorrte being _ that have a common theme about people being traumatised, - that have a common theme about - people being traumatised, damaged, suffering _ people being traumatised, damaged, suffering from — people being traumatised, damaged, suffering from all— people being traumatised, damaged, suffering from all sorts _ people being traumatised, damaged, suffering from all sorts of— suffering from all sorts of psychiatric _ suffering from all sorts of psychiatric diagnoses. - suffering from all sorts of| psychiatric diagnoses. and suffering from all sorts of. psychiatric diagnoses. and it suffering from all sorts of- psychiatric diagnoses. and it is self—evident _ psychiatric diagnoses. and it is self—evident that— psychiatric diagnoses. and it is self—evident that if— psychiatric diagnoses. and it is self—evident that if you've - psychiatric diagnoses. and it is self—evident that if you've lost| self—evident that if you've lost your— self—evident that if you've lost yourioh, _ self—evident that if you've lost yourioh, tost— self—evident that if you've lost yourjob, lost your— self—evident that if you've lost yourjob, lost your home - self—evident that if you've lost yourjob, lost your home thati self—evident that if you've lost. yourjob, lost your home that you will have — yourjob, lost your home that you will have those _ yourjob, lost your home that you will have those losses. _ yourjob, lost your home that you will have those losses. yet - yourjob, lost your home that you will have those losses. yet we . will have those losses. yet we found, — will have those losses. yet we found, particularly— will have those losses. yet we found, particularly in - will have those losses. yet we found, particularly in the - will have those losses. yet we found, particularly in the hss, there — found, particularly in the hss, there there _ found, particularly in the hss, there there is _ found, particularly in the hss, there there is a _ found, particularly in the hss, there there is a bit _ found, particularly in the hss, there there is a bit of- found, particularly in the hss, there there is a bit of distress| found, particularly in the hss, - there there is a bit of distress and inconvenience _ there there is a bit of distress and inconvenience but— there there is a bit of distress and inconvenience but nothing - there there is a bit of distress and inconvenience but nothing in- there there is a bit of distress and inconvenience but nothing in your| inconvenience but nothing in your medical— inconvenience but nothing in your medical records _ inconvenience but nothing in your medical records and _ inconvenience but nothing in your medical records and therefore - inconvenience but nothing in your. medical records and therefore there is no medical— medical records and therefore there is no medical injury. _ lamar—condon in about half the cases, people that go to the gp when they have some sort of g it is an

oversimplistic analysis. the other problem with the hss, the other problem with the h55, and it is hot— the other problem with the h55, and it is not something _ the other problem with the h55, and it is not something that— the other problem with the h55, and it is not something that can - the other problem with the h55, and it is not something that can be - it is not something that can be fixed _ it is not something that can be fixed today, _ it is not something that can be fixed today, the _ it is not something that can be fixed today, the damage - it is not something that can be fixed today, the damage is - it is not something that can be i fixed today, the damage is done because — fixed today, the damage is done because over— fixed today, the damage is done because over 2000 _ fixed today, the damage is done because over 2000 cases- fixed today, the damage is done because over 2000 cases have i fixed today, the damage is done - because over 2000 cases have been settled _ because over 2000 cases have been settled without _ because over 2000 cases have been settled without legal— because over 2000 cases have been settled without legal advice - because over 2000 cases have been settled without legal advice and - because over 2000 cases have been settled without legal advice and in l settled without legal advice and in marry _ settled without legal advice and in many instances, _ settled without legal advice and in many instances, by _ settled without legal advice and in many instances, by the _ settled without legal advice and in| many instances, by the application has not _ many instances, by the application has not captured _ many instances, by the application has not captured anything - many instances, by the application has not captured anything like - many instances, by the application has not captured anything like the | has not captured anything like the heads _ has not captured anything like the heads of— has not captured anything like the heads of loss _ has not captured anything like the heads of loss that _ has not captured anything like the heads of loss that these _ has not captured anything like the heads of loss that these people i heads of loss that these people have, _ heads of loss that these people have, and — heads of loss that these people have, and irr— heads of loss that these people have, and in many— heads of loss that these people have, and in many instances. heads of loss that these people - have, and in many instances where a broad _ have, and in many instances where a broad brush— have, and in many instances where a broad brush approach _ have, and in many instances where a broad brush approach is _ have, and in many instances where a broad brush approach is adopted - have, and in many instances where a broad brush approach is adopted to i broad brush approach is adopted to cover— broad brush approach is adopted to cover financial _ broad brush approach is adopted to cover financial and _ broad brush approach is adopted to cover financial and capital - broad brush approach is adopted to cover financial and capital losses i cover financial and capital losses that go _ cover financial and capital losses that go nowhere _ cover financial and capital losses that go nowhere near— cover financial and capital losses that go nowhere near the - cover financial and capital losses that go nowhere near the true i that go nowhere near the true picture. — that go nowhere near the true picture. so _ that go nowhere near the true picture. so we _ that go nowhere near the true picture, so we act _ that go nowhere near the true picture, so we act for - that go nowhere near the true picture, so we act for the - that go nowhere near the true i picture, so we act for the biggest cohort— picture, so we act for the biggest cohort of— picture, so we act for the biggest cohort of h55 _ picture, so we act for the biggest cohort of h55 complainant - picture, so we act for the biggest cohort of h55 complainant and i i cohort of h55 complainant and i can't _ cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find — cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find any— cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find any with _ cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find any with an _ cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find any with an offer - cohort of h55 complainant and i can't find any with an offer thati cohort of h55 complainant and i | can't find any with an offer that i can't find any with an offer that i can sign— can't find any with an offer that i can sign off— can't find any with an offer that i can sign off with _ can't find any with an offer that i can sign off with no _ can't find any with an offer that i can sign off with no further- can sign off with no further investigation _ can sign off with no further investigation and - can sign off with no further- investigation and interrogation. not one of— investigation and interrogation. not one of them — investigation and interrogation. not one ofthem~ at— investigation and interrogation. not one of them. at the _ investigation and interrogation. not one of them. at the minute - investigation and interrogation. not

one of them. at the minute we - investigation and interrogation. not| one of them. at the minute we have -ot one of them. at the minute we have got 176 _ one of them. at the minute we have got 176 offers — one of them. at the minute we have got 176 offers. and _ one of them. at the minute we have got 176 offers. and you _ one of them. at the minute we have got 176 offers. and you can't - one of them. at the minute we have got 176 offers. and you can't sign i got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? — got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i— got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i would _ got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i would love _ got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i would love to - got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i would love to sign - got 176 offers. and you can't sign off one? i would love to sign off. got 176 offers. and you can't sign i off one? i would love to sign off as marry— off one? i would love to sign off as marry as— off one? i would love to sign off as marry as i— off one? i would love to sign off as many as i can, _ off one? i would love to sign off as many as i can, but _ off one? i would love to sign off as many as i can, but i _ off one? i would love to sign off as many as i can, but i can't - off one? i would love to sign off as many as i can, but i can't becausel many as i can, but i can't because in every— many as i can, but i can't because in every case _ many as i can, but i can't because in every case that _ many as i can, but i can't because in every case that there _ many as i can, but i can't because in every case that there was - in every case that there was something _ in every case that there was something missing. - in every case that there was something missing. one- in every case that there was something missing. one of| in every case that there was i something missing. one of the in every case that there was - something missing. one of the real common— something missing. one of the real common issues— something missing. one of the real common issues irr— something missing. one of the real common issues in the _ something missing. one of the real common issues in the hss- something missing. one of the real common issues in the hss is- something missing. one of the real common issues in the hss is therei something missing. one of the real. common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism — common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism in— common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism in place _ common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism in place where - common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism in place where there i common issues in the hss is there is a mechanism in place where there is| a mechanism in place where there is a mechanism in place where there is a calculation — a mechanism in place where there is a calculation based _ a mechanism in place where there is a calculation based on _ a mechanism in place where there is a calculation based on a _ a mechanism in place where there is a calculation based on a network- a calculation based on a network transformation— a calculation based on a network transformation scheme, - a calculation based on a network transformation scheme, where l a calculation based on a network. transformation scheme, where post office _ transformation scheme, where post office offer— transformation scheme, where post office offer something _ transformation scheme, where post office offer something in _ transformation scheme, where post office offer something in the - transformation scheme, where post office offer something in the order. office offer something in the order office offer something in the order of 27_ office offer something in the order of 27 months— office offer something in the order of 27 months loss _ office offer something in the order of 27 months loss of _ office offer something in the order of 27 months loss of salary - office offer something in the order of 27 months loss of salary that i office offer something in the order of 27 months loss of salary that is| of 27 months loss of salary that is supposed — of 27 months loss of salary that is supposed to— of 27 months loss of salary that is supposed to compensate - of 27 months loss of salary that is supposed to compensate for- of 27 months loss of salary that is supposed to compensate for the i supposed to compensate for the entire _ supposed to compensate for the entire loss — supposed to compensate for the entire loss of— supposed to compensate for the entire loss of earnings _ supposed to compensate for the entire loss of earnings and - supposed to compensate for the. entire loss of earnings and capital losses— entire loss of earnings and capital losses on— entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top _ entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top of— entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top of that. _ entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top of that. so - entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top of that. so there i entire loss of earnings and capital losses on top of that. so there is| entire loss of earnings and capitall losses on top of that. so there is a really— losses on top of that. so there is a really big _ losses on top of that. so there is a really big issue _ losses on top of that. so there is a really big issue there _ losses on top of that. so there is a really big issue there that - losses on top of that. so there is a really big issue there that is - losses on top of that. so there is a really big issue there that is going| really big issue there that is going to carry— really big issue there that is going to carry on — really big issue there that is going to carry on playing _ really big issue there that is going to carry on playing out, _ really big issue there that is going to carry on playing out, not - really big issue there that is going to carry on playing out, not only l really big issue there that is going| to carry on playing out, not only in the cases— to carry on playing out, not only in the cases that _ to carry on playing out, not only in the cases that have _ to carry on playing out, not only in the cases that have been- to carry on playing out, not only in| the cases that have been progress, but those _ the cases that have been progress, but those that _ the cases that have been progress, but those that have _ the cases that have been progress, but those that have already- the cases that have been progress, but those that have already been . but those that have already been settled — but those that have already been settled be — but those that have already been settled. , ., ~ but those that have already been settled. i. ~ , , , settled. do you think these cases need to be _ settled. do you think these cases need to be reopened? _ settled. do you think these cases need to be reopened? on - settled. do you think these cases need to be reopened? on the - settled. do you think these cases - need to be reopened? on the analysis ofthe need to be reopened? on the analysis of the cases — need to be reopened? on the analysis of the cases i — need to be reopened? on the analysis of the cases i have _ need to be reopened? on the analysis of the cases i have got, _ need to be reopened? on the analysis of the cases i have got, a _ of the cases i have got, a significant _ of the cases i have got, a significant number- of the cases i have got, a significant number of- of the cases i have got, a l significant number of those of the cases i have got, a - significant number of those cases appear— significant number of those cases appear to — significant number of those cases appear to me _ significant number of those cases appearto me at— significant number of those cases appear to me at least— significant number of those cases appear to me at least deserving i significant number of those casesl appear to me at least deserving of

significant number of those cases i appear to me at least deserving of a proper— appear to me at least deserving of a proper review~ — appear to me at least deserving of a proper review 50 _ appear to me at least deserving of a preper review— proper review. so the cases that we think are closed _ proper review. so the cases that we think are closed are _ proper review. so the cases that we think are closed are not _ proper review. so the cases that we think are closed are not in - proper review. so the cases that we think are closed are not in fact - think are closed are not in fact closed? ., , , ., think are closed are not in fact closed?_ that - think are closed are not in fact closed?_ that is l closed? probably not. that is staggering. _ closed? probably not. that is staggering. to _ closed? probably not. that is staggering, to think - closed? probably not. that is staggering, to think that - closed? probably not. that is. staggering, to think that cases closed? probably not. that is - staggering, to think that cases have been settled and i have been at this for some _ been settled and i have been at this for some time, about the under settlement and we are at risk of doing _ settlement and we are at risk of doing this — settlement and we are at risk of doing this at every single stage. butiust— doing this at every single stage. butjust one thing doing this at every single stage. but just one thing from may, doing this at every single stage. butjust one thing from may, on the self—evident point, i would just like to— self—evident point, i would just like to explore with you what representations you have made within the context _ representations you have made within the context of the schemes about that very — the context of the schemes about that very point. everybody here and everybody _ that very point. everybody here and everybody watching at home knows that if— everybody watching at home knows that if you — everybody watching at home knows that if you have been accused of something, your reputation has been damaged _ something, your reputation has been damaged and the loss that that will cause _ damaged and the loss that that will cause you _ damaged and the loss that that will cause you will be immense. you are standing _ cause you will be immense. you are standing within your own family, within— standing within your own family, within your own community. it may not be _ within your own community. it may not be recorded in a medical record, but surely— not be recorded in a medical record, but surely to — not be recorded in a medical record, but surely to goodness the powers that be _ but surely to goodness the powers that be can recognise that is a

proper— that be can recognise that is a proper claim that ought to be addressed. how have you got with trying _ addressed. how have you got with trying to— addressed. how have you got with trying to make that point to people, and get _ trying to make that point to people, and get the post to recognise it and the compensation systems to reflect it? i the compensation systems to reflect it? 4' , , , ., it? i think the issue is not necessarily... _ it? i think the issue is not necessarily... i— it? i think the issue is not necessarily... i listen - it? i think the issue is not necessarily... i listen to l it? i think the issue is not i necessarily... i listen to carl creswell _ necessarily... i listen to carl creswell earlier _ necessarily... i listen to carl creswell earlier and - necessarily... i listen to carl creswell earlier and we - necessarily... i listen to carlj creswell earlier and we have necessarily... i listen to carl. creswell earlier and we have a positive — creswell earlier and we have a positive collegiate _ creswell earlier and we have a positive collegiate dialogue i creswell earlier and we have a positive collegiate dialogue to| creswell earlier and we have a i positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise — positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise things _ positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise things as _ positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise things as we _ positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise things as we go - positive collegiate dialogue to try and revise things as we go along. positive collegiate dialogue to try. and revise things as we go along. i think— and revise things as we go along. i think the _ and revise things as we go along. i think the process _ and revise things as we go along. i think the process stymies - and revise things as we go along. i think the process stymies any- and revise things as we go along. i| think the process stymies any form of change. — think the process stymies any form of change, fundamental— think the process stymies any form of change, fundamental change. i think the process stymies any form i of change, fundamental change. on individual— of change, fundamental change. on individual cases— of change, fundamental change. on individual cases we _ of change, fundamental change. on individual cases we can _ of change, fundamental change. on individual cases we can establish i individual cases we can establish acute _ individual cases we can establish acute need. _ individual cases we can establish acute need, and _ individual cases we can establish acute need, and the _ individual cases we can establish acute need, and the system - acute need, and the system accelerates. _ acute need, and the system accelerates. so— acute need, and the system accelerates. so i— acute need, and the system accelerates. so i had - acute need, and the system accelerates. so i had a - acute need, and the system . accelerates. so i had a person acute need, and the system - accelerates. so i had a person who had thoughts — accelerates. so i had a person who had thoughts of _ accelerates. so i had a person who had thoughts of self—harm - accelerates. so i had a person who had thoughts of self—harm and - accelerates. so i had a person who had thoughts of self—harm and we| had thoughts of self—harm and we expedited — had thoughts of self—harm and we expedited a — had thoughts of self—harm and we expedited a medical— had thoughts of self—harm and we expedited a medical report - had thoughts of self—harm and we expedited a medical report that. expedited a medical report that enabled — expedited a medical report that enabled him _ expedited a medical report that enabled him to _ expedited a medical report that enabled him to receive - expedited a medical report that enabled him to receive a - expedited a medical report that l enabled him to receive a 6—figure

interim _ enabled him to receive a 6—figure interim payment~ _ enabled him to receive a 6—figure interim payment. that's - enabled him to receive a 6—figure interim payment. that's the - enabled him to receive a 6—figure interim payment. that's the sorti enabled him to receive a 6—figure i interim payment. that's the sort of example _ interim payment. that's the sort of example where _ interim payment. that's the sort of example where there _ interim payment. that's the sort of example where there is _ interim payment. that's the sort of| example where there is compassion within— example where there is compassion within people. — example where there is compassion within people, within— example where there is compassion within people, within the _ within people, within the organisation _ within people, within the organisation of— within people, within the organisation of the - within people, within the organisation of the posti within people, within the - organisation of the post office. but the bigger— organisation of the post office. but the bigger problem _ organisation of the post office. but the bigger problem is— organisation of the post office. but the bigger problem is trying - organisation of the post office. but the bigger problem is trying to - the bigger problem is trying to unlock— the bigger problem is trying to unlock the _ the bigger problem is trying to unlock the processes - the bigger problem is trying to unlock the processes as - the bigger problem is trying to unlock the processes as a - the bigger problem is trying to . unlock the processes as a whole. the bigger problem is trying to - unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed — unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed out, _ unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed out, and _ unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed out, and allen - unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed out, and allen as- unlock the processes as a whole. as tim pointed out, and allen as well, i tim pointed out, and allen as well, the trailblazers _ tim pointed out, and allen as well, the trailblazers here _ tim pointed out, and allen as well, the trailblazers here that _ tim pointed out, and allen as well, the trailblazers here that got - tim pointed out, and allen as well, the trailblazers here that got the i the trailblazers here that got the judgment — the trailblazers here that got the judgment and _ the trailblazers here that got the judgment and enabled _ the trailblazers here that got the judgment and enabled the - the trailblazers here that got the - judgment and enabled the convictions to be overturned, _ judgment and enabled the convictions to be overturned, the _ judgment and enabled the convictions to be overturned, the irony— judgment and enabled the convictions to be overturned, the irony is - judgment and enabled the convictions to be overturned, the irony is that- to be overturned, the irony is that the group — to be overturned, the irony is that the group litigation— to be overturned, the irony is that the group litigation order- to be overturned, the irony is that the group litigation order who- to be overturned, the irony is that| the group litigation order who are having _ the group litigation order who are having to — the group litigation order who are having to prove _ the group litigation order who are having to prove down _ the group litigation order who are having to prove down to _ the group litigation order who are having to prove down to the - the group litigation order who are having to prove down to the last . having to prove down to the last penny. — having to prove down to the last penny. each _ having to prove down to the last penny, each aspect _ having to prove down to the last penny, each aspect of _ having to prove down to the last penny, each aspect of the - having to prove down to the last penny, each aspect of the case, | having to prove down to the last - penny, each aspect of the case, and the other— penny, each aspect of the case, and the other thing _ penny, each aspect of the case, and the other thing is— penny, each aspect of the case, and the other thing is well— penny, each aspect of the case, and the other thing is well that - penny, each aspect of the case, and the other thing is well that we - the other thing is well that we commented _ the other thing is well that we commented on— the other thing is well that we commented on this _ the other thing is well that we commented on this morning, i the other thing is well that we i commented on this morning, we the other thing is well that we - commented on this morning, we are not sure _ commented on this morning, we are not sure we — commented on this morning, we are not sure we have _ commented on this morning, we are not sure we have the _ commented on this morning, we are not sure we have the resources - commented on this morning, we are not sure we have the resources to i commented on this morning, we are| not sure we have the resources to do this _ not sure we have the resources to do this the _ not sure we have the resources to do this. the numbers— not sure we have the resources to do this. the numbers of— not sure we have the resources to do this. the numbers of lawyers- not sure we have the resources to do this. the numbers of lawyers being l this. the numbers of lawyers being guoted _ this. the numbers of lawyers being guoted to _ this. the numbers of lawyers being guoted to us — this. the numbers of lawyers being quoted to us seem _ this. the numbers of lawyers being quoted to us seem very _ this. the numbers of lawyers being quoted to us seem very light. - this. the numbers of lawyers being quoted to us seem very light. i've i quoted to us seem very light. i've -ot quoted to us seem very light. i've got cases. — quoted to us seem very light. i've got cases, individual— quoted to us seem very light. i've got cases, individual cases - quoted to us seem very light. i've got cases, individual cases in - quoted to us seem very light. i've got cases, individual cases in the| got cases, individual cases in the hss~ _ got cases, individual cases in the hss~ i've — got cases, individual cases in the hss~ i've been _ got cases, individual cases in the hss. i've been waiting _ got cases, individual cases in the hss. i've been waiting for- got cases, individual cases in the hss. i've been waiting for one i got cases, individual cases in the hss. i've been waiting for one to| hss. i've been waiting for one to come _ hss. i've been waiting for one to come back— hss. i've been waiting for one to come back since _ hss. i've been waiting for one to come back since last _ hss. i've been waiting for one to come back since lastjuly. - hss. i've been waiting for one to come back since lastjuly. the i come back since lastjuly. the problem — come back since lastjuly. the problem with_ come back since lastjuly. the problem with the _

come back since lastjuly. the problem with the scheme - come back since lastjuly. the problem with the scheme is l come back since lastjuly. the - problem with the scheme is when you si-n problem with the scheme is when you sign up _ problem with the scheme is when you sign up to— problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a _ problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a scheme, _ problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a scheme, you _ problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a scheme, you sign - problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a scheme, you sign up - problem with the scheme is when you sign up to a scheme, you sign up to. sign up to a scheme, you sign up to the scheme — sign up to a scheme, you sign up to the scheme that _ sign up to a scheme, you sign up to the scheme that has— sign up to a scheme, you sign up to the scheme that has no— sign up to a scheme, you sign up to the scheme that has no deadlines l the scheme that has no deadlines established — the scheme that has no deadlines established within— the scheme that has no deadlines established within it, _ the scheme that has no deadlines established within it, so - the scheme that has no deadlines established within it, so once - the scheme that has no deadlines established within it, so once you i established within it, so once you are in_ established within it, so once you are in it _ established within it, so once you are in it you — established within it, so once you are in it you are _ established within it, so once you are in it you are stuck— established within it, so once you are in it you are stuck with- established within it, so once you are in it you are stuck with it. - are in it you are stuck with it. tony— are in it you are stuck with it. tony actually, _ are in it you are stuck with it. tony actually, his _ are in it you are stuck with it. tony actually, his case - are in it you are stuck with it. tony actually, his case is - are in it you are stuck with it. i tony actually, his case is much longer— tony actually, his case is much longer than _ tony actually, his case is much longer than he _ tony actually, his case is much longer than he set _ tony actually, his case is much longer than he set out - tony actually, his case is much longer than he set out this- tony actually, his case is much - longer than he set out this morning because _ longer than he set out this morning because he — longer than he set out this morning because he tried _ longer than he set out this morning because he tried to _ longer than he set out this morning because he tried to apply _ longer than he set out this morning because he tried to apply in - longer than he set out this morning because he tried to apply in 2020 l because he tried to apply in 2020 and was _ because he tried to apply in 2020 and was told _ because he tried to apply in 2020 and was told the _ because he tried to apply in 2020 and was told the scheme - because he tried to apply in 2020 and was told the scheme was - because he tried to apply in 2020 - and was told the scheme was closed, but then— and was told the scheme was closed, but then it _ and was told the scheme was closed, but then it was — and was told the scheme was closed, but then it was reopened. _ and was told the scheme was closed, but then it was reopened. i— and was told the scheme was closed, but then it was reopened. i have - but then it was reopened. i have other— but then it was reopened. i have other clients _ but then it was reopened. i have other clients that _ but then it was reopened. i have other clients that were - but then it was reopened. i have other clients that were in - but then it was reopened. i have other clients that were in his - other clients that were in his position— other clients that were in his position that _ other clients that were in his position that weighted - other clients that were in his position that weighted 2.5. other clients that were in his . position that weighted 2.5 years other clients that were in his - position that weighted 2.5 years for an offer— position that weighted 2.5 years for an offer and — position that weighted 2.5 years for an offer and these _ position that weighted 2.5 years for an offer and these were _ position that weighted 2.5 years for an offer and these were people - position that weighted 2.5 years for| an offer and these were people with bankruptcy— an offer and these were people with bankruptcy that _ an offer and these were people with bankruptcy that were _ an offer and these were people with bankruptcy that were at _ an offer and these were people with bankruptcy that were at the - an offer and these were people with bankruptcy that were at the most i bankruptcy that were at the most complex — bankruptcy that were at the most complex and _ bankruptcy that were at the most complex and of— bankruptcy that were at the most complex and of things _ bankruptcy that were at the most complex and of things and - bankruptcy that were at the most . complex and of things and probably in greatest — complex and of things and probably in greatest need. _ complex and of things and probably in greatest need. 50— complex and of things and probably in greatest need. 50 is— complex and of things and probably in greatest need.— in greatest need. so is it your view then that a — in greatest need. so is it your view then that a scheme, _ in greatest need. so is it your view then that a scheme, however - in greatest need. so is it your view then that a scheme, however well| then that a scheme, however well constructed, especially for those early participants, and those who are not represented, runs the very severe risk of people under settling the true value of their claim because of developing knowledge and

increased competencies as the scheme progresses? if that is a case, surely all of those need to be looked at again? it surely all of those need to be looked at again?— looked at again? it is difficult because of— looked at again? it is difficult because of course _ looked at again? it is difficult because of course we - looked at again? it is difficult because of course we are - looked at again? it is difficult because of course we are sol looked at again? it is difficult l because of course we are so far looked at again? it is difficult - because of course we are so far down the line _ because of course we are so far down the line to _ because of course we are so far down the line to start — because of course we are so far down the line to start to _ because of course we are so far down the line to start to unpick _ because of course we are so far down the line to start to unpick things - the line to start to unpick things is going — the line to start to unpick things is going to — the line to start to unpick things is going to build _ the line to start to unpick things is going to build further- the line to start to unpick things is going to build further delays i is going to build further delays into things. _ is going to build further delays into things, and _ is going to build further delays into things, and ultimately - is going to build further delays. into things, and ultimately what these _ into things, and ultimately what these people _ into things, and ultimately what these people want _ into things, and ultimately what these people want is— into things, and ultimately whati these people want is resolution. absolutely. _ these people want is resolution. absolutely, but _ these people want is resolution. absolutely, but a _ these people want is resolution. absolutely, but a full— these people want is resolution. absolutely, but a full and - these people want is resolution. absolutely, but a full and final l absolutely, but a full and final settlement, full and fair settlement. this is what we are being told constantly so how it will being told constantly so how it will be consistent if people are in receipt of a settlement that is far short of what they are truly entitled to receive? conversation, as we know, is to put people back in the position they would have been had the incident not occurred and thatis had the incident not occurred and that is not happening here. you will know as a lawyer— that is not happening here. you will know as a lawyer for _ that is not happening here. you will know as a lawyer for 30 _ that is not happening here. you will know as a lawyer for 30 years - that is not happening here. you will know as a lawyer for 30 years that i know as a lawyer for 30 years that you have — know as a lawyer for 30 years that you have scheduled _ know as a lawyer for 30 years that you have scheduled loss, - know as a lawyer for 30 years that you have scheduled loss, counteri you have scheduled loss, counter schedule — you have scheduled loss, counter schedule and _ you have scheduled loss, counter schedule and discussion. - you have scheduled loss, counter schedule and discussion. it - you have scheduled loss, counter schedule and discussion. itjust. schedule and discussion. itjust does _ schedule and discussion. itjust does not — schedule and discussion. itjust does not happen— schedule and discussion. itjust does not happen quickly- schedule and discussion. itjust does not happen quickly here. i

schedule and discussion. itjust- does not happen quickly here. thank ou, does not happen quickly here. thank you. chair- — does not happen quickly here. thank you. chair- the _ does not happen quickly here. thank you, chair. the government - does not happen quickly here. thank you, chair. the government has - you, chair. the government has argued — you, chair. the government has argued that the main constraint on pace for— argued that the main constraint on pace for the group litigation order scheme _ pace for the group litigation order scheme is — pace for the group litigation order scheme is the scheme at which claimants— scheme is the scheme at which claimants lawyers can produce claims and we _ claimants lawyers can produce claims and we have — claimants lawyers can produce claims and we have heard in earlier evidence _ and we have heard in earlier evidence that it has taken perhaps several _ evidence that it has taken perhaps several years in some cases to get to the _ several years in some cases to get to the point— several years in some cases to get to the point to submit a claim. following _ to the point to submit a claim. following the evidence of alan bates earlier, _ following the evidence of alan bates earlier, do _ following the evidence of alan bates earlier, do you have a view on why the post— earlier, do you have a view on why the post office waited to start the process _ the post office waited to start the process of— the post office waited to start the process of disclosure until such time _ process of disclosure until such time as— process of disclosure until such time as claims have been made, given that they— time as claims have been made, given that they knew exactly who the claimants were likely to be? ifi claimants were likely to be? if i ma , claimants were likely to be? if i may. just _ claimants were likely to be? if i may, just before i answer that question. _ may, just before i answer that question. just _ may, just before i answer that question, just clarify- may, just before i answer that question, just clarify to - may, just before i answer that question, just clarify to be - may, just before i answer thatl question, just clarify to be sure there _ question, just clarify to be sure there is— question, just clarify to be sure there is no— question, just clarify to be sure there is no misunderstanding, i question, just clarify to be surej there is no misunderstanding, i think— there is no misunderstanding, i think certainly— there is no misunderstanding, i think certainly in _ there is no misunderstanding, i think certainly in the _ there is no misunderstanding, i think certainly in the group - think certainly in the group litigation— think certainly in the group litigation order— think certainly in the group litigation order scheme, . think certainly in the group - litigation order scheme, there is no risk of— litigation order scheme, there is no risk of under— litigation order scheme, there is no risk of under settlement _ litigation order scheme, there is no risk of under settlement because i litigation order scheme, there is noi risk of under settlement because the clients _ risk of under settlement because the clients are _ risk of under settlement because the clients are going _ risk of under settlement because the clients are going for— risk of under settlement because the clients are going for advice, - risk of under settlement because the clients are going for advice, and - risk of under settlement because the clients are going for advice, and i- clients are going for advice, and i think— clients are going for advice, and i think it _ clients are going for advice, and i think it is — clients are going for advice, and i think it is the _ clients are going for advice, and i think it is the same _ clients are going for advice, and i think it is the same in _ clients are going for advice, and i think it is the same in one - clients are going for advice, and i think it is the same in one other. think it is the same in one other

scheme~ — think it is the same in one other scheme~ so— think it is the same in one other scheme. so that _ think it is the same in one other scheme. so that point _ think it is the same in one other scheme. so that point is - think it is the same in one other scheme. so that point is limited think it is the same in one other. scheme. so that point is limited to the hss _ scheme. so that point is limited to the hss scheme. _ scheme. so that point is limited to the hss scheme. regarding - the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, _ the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, i— the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, i am _ the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, i am not- the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, i am not in- the hss scheme. regarding disclosure, i am not in the i the hss scheme. regarding - disclosure, i am not in the business of the _ disclosure, i am not in the business of the blame — disclosure, i am not in the business of the blame game _ disclosure, i am not in the business of the blame game because - disclosure, i am not in the business of the blame game because that. disclosure, i am not in the business. of the blame game because that does not help— of the blame game because that does not help our— of the blame game because that does not help our clients _ of the blame game because that does not help our clients but _ of the blame game because that does not help our clients but it _ of the blame game because that does not help our clients but it is _ not help our clients but it is inescapable _ not help our clients but it is inescapable that _ not help our clients but it is inescapable that i _ not help our clients but it is inescapable that i think- not help our clients but it is - inescapable that i think probably a degree _ inescapable that i think probably a degree of— inescapable that i think probably a degree of incompetence _ inescapable that i think probably a degree of incompetence there, . inescapable that i think probably a l degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency — degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency has _ degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency has been _ degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency has been deep - degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency has been deep and - degree of incompetence there, and inefficiency has been deep and the i inefficiency has been deep and the explanation — inefficiency has been deep and the explanation for— inefficiency has been deep and the explanation for slowness - inefficiency has been deep and the explanation for slowness on - inefficiency has been deep and the explanation for slowness on the i inefficiency has been deep and the l explanation for slowness on the side of the _ explanation for slowness on the side of the post— explanation for slowness on the side of the post office. _ explanation for slowness on the side of the post office. 50 _ explanation for slowness on the side of the post office.— of the post office. so how long are claimants having _ of the post office. so how long are claimants having to _ of the post office. so how long are claimants having to wait _ of the post office. so how long are claimants having to wait for- of the post office. so how long are claimants having to wait for those | claimants having to wait for those post office disclosure stage obligations to be met? weeks and weeks, obligations to be met? weeks and weeks. and _ obligations to be met? weeks and weeks. and by _ obligations to be met? weeks and weeks, and by estimate, - obligations to be met? weeks and weeks, and by estimate, i - obligations to be met? weeks and weeks, and by estimate, i think. obligations to be met? weeks and weeks, and by estimate, i think it| weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, — weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, based _ weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, based on— weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, based on the _ weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, based on the rate - weeks, and by estimate, i think it will take, based on the rate of- will take, based on the rate of progress — will take, based on the rate of progress so _ will take, based on the rate of progress so far, _ will take, based on the rate of progress so far, it _ will take, based on the rate of progress so far, it will - will take, based on the rate of progress so far, it will take . will take, based on the rate ofj progress so far, it will take six months — progress so far, it will take six months or— progress so far, it will take six months or more _ progress so far, it will take six months or more for— progress so far, it will take six months or more for the - progress so far, it will take six months or more for the post l progress so far, it will take six - months or more for the post office to disclose — months or more for the post office to disclose records _ months or more for the post office to disclose records to _ months or more for the post office to disclose records to enable - months or more for the post office to disclose records to enable us i months or more for the post office to disclose records to enable us toi to disclose records to enable us to finalise _ to disclose records to enable us to finalise claims, _

to disclose records to enable us to finalise claims, to— to disclose records to enable us to finalise claims, to put— to disclose records to enable us to finalise claims, to put claims- to disclose records to enable us to finalise claims, to put claims in. l finalise claims, to put claims in. therein— finalise claims, to put claims in. therein lies _ finalise claims, to put claims in. therein lies one _ finalise claims, to put claims in. therein lies one of— finalise claims, to put claims in. therein lies one of the - finalise claims, to put claims in. therein lies one of the big - therein lies one of the big problems _ therein lies one of the big problems-— therein lies one of the big roblems. . ., therein lies one of the big roblems. ., ., problems. and so from your point of view, problems. and so from your point of view. would — problems. and so from your point of view. would it _ problems. and so from your point of view, would it be _ problems. and so from your point of view, would it be beneficial - problems. and so from your point of view, would it be beneficial if - problems. and so from your point of view, would it be beneficial if the . view, would it be beneficial if the post office was not waiting for the claims to come forward to then start that process of disclosure, which as you said could take weeks and weeks, or months potentially. so this could then be sped up? it or months potentially. so this could then be sped pp?— then be sped up? it would be beneficial— then be sped up? it would be beneficial for _ then be sped up? it would be beneficial for us _ then be sped up? it would be beneficial for us to _ then be sped up? it would be beneficial for us to have - then be sped up? it would be beneficial for us to have no . then be sped up? it would be - beneficial for us to have no contact at all _ beneficial for us to have no contact at all with — beneficial for us to have no contact at all with post _ beneficial for us to have no contact at all with post office. _ beneficial for us to have no contact at all with post office. beneficial. at all with post office. beneficial for the _ at all with post office. beneficial for the clients _ at all with post office. beneficial for the clients because - at all with post office. beneficial for the clients because that - at all with post office. beneficial for the clients because that is i at all with post office. beneficial. for the clients because that is the first point. — for the clients because that is the first point. they— for the clients because that is the first point, they have _ for the clients because that is the first point, they have had - for the clients because that is the first point, they have had enough| first point, they have had enough contact _ first point, they have had enough contact with _ first point, they have had enough contact with the _ first point, they have had enough contact with the post _ first point, they have had enough contact with the post office. - first point, they have had enough contact with the post office. the i contact with the post office. the other— contact with the post office. the other point _ contact with the post office. the other point is— contact with the post office. the other point is that _ contact with the post office. the other point is that to _ contact with the post office. the other point is that to take - contact with the post office. the other point is that to take post i other point is that to take post office — other point is that to take post office disclosure _ other point is that to take post office disclosure as _ other point is that to take post office disclosure as far - other point is that to take post office disclosure as far as - other point is that to take post office disclosure as far as we l other point is that to take post . office disclosure as far as we can out of— office disclosure as far as we can out of the — office disclosure as far as we can out of the equation, _ office disclosure as far as we can out of the equation, i— office disclosure as far as we can out of the equation, ithink- office disclosure as far as we can out of the equation, i think is- office disclosure as far as we can. out of the equation, i think is part of what _ out of the equation, i think is part of what i — out of the equation, i think is part of what i think— out of the equation, i think is part of what i think needs _ out of the equation, i think is part of what i think needs to _ out of the equation, i think is part of what i think needs to happen i of what i think needs to happen going _ of what i think needs to happen going forward _ of what i think needs to happen going forward in— of what i think needs to happen going forward in the _ of what i think needs to happen going forward in the group- going forward in the group litigation— going forward in the group litigation order— going forward in the group litigation order scheme. l going forward in the group- litigation order scheme. that's one of the _ litigation order scheme. that's one of the things — litigation order scheme. that's one of the things we _ litigation order scheme. that's one of the things we need _ litigation order scheme. that's one of the things we need to _ litigation order scheme. that's one of the things we need to take - litigation order scheme. that's one of the things we need to take out. litigation order scheme. that's onej of the things we need to take out of the equation — of the things we need to take out of the equation so— of the things we need to take out of the equation-— of the things we need to take out of the equation. so how do you think in ractice the equation. so how do you think in practice that — the equation. so how do you think in practice that would _ the equation. so how do you think in practice that would happen, - the equation. so how do you think in practice that would happen, in - the equation. so how do you think in j practice that would happen, in terms of the recommendations that we will be making as a committee? is that that the post office is required to make all the obligations to a third party with disclosures ahead of time, and then that is the body of

the claimants would speak to? have that function in practice, removing the post office? the that function in practice, removing the post office?— the post office? the solutions in unlockin: the post office? the solutions in unlocking and _ the post office? the solutions in unlocking and delaying - the post office? the solutions in unlocking and delaying the - the post office? the solutions in| unlocking and delaying the group litigation— unlocking and delaying the group litigation order— unlocking and delaying the group litigation order is _ unlocking and delaying the group litigation order is an _ unlocking and delaying the group litigation order is an issue. - unlocking and delaying the group litigation order is an issue. what we have — litigation order is an issue. what we have proposed _ litigation order is an issue. what we have proposed and _ litigation order is an issue. what we have proposed and discussed| litigation order is an issue. what- we have proposed and discussed with the advisory — we have proposed and discussed with the advisory board _ we have proposed and discussed with the advisory board is _ we have proposed and discussed with the advisory board is an _ we have proposed and discussed with the advisory board is an accelerated i the advisory board is an accelerated process— the advisory board is an accelerated process which — the advisory board is an accelerated process which involves _ the advisory board is an accelerated process which involves us, - the advisory board is an accelerated process which involves us, the - process which involves us, the lawyers. — process which involves us, the lawyers, assessing _ process which involves us, the lawyers, assessing carefully. process which involves us, the i lawyers, assessing carefully each claim, _ lawyers, assessing carefully each claim, as — lawyers, assessing carefully each claim, as we _ lawyers, assessing carefully each claim, as we do— lawyers, assessing carefully each claim, as we do already, - lawyers, assessing carefully each| claim, as we do already, collating the evidence _ claim, as we do already, collating the evidence we _ claim, as we do already, collating the evidence we have _ claim, as we do already, collating the evidence we have already- claim, as we do already, collating| the evidence we have already got, including — the evidence we have already got, including the — the evidence we have already got, including the original— the evidence we have already got, including the original written - including the original written witness _ including the original written witness statements, - including the original written witness statements, using . including the original written i witness statements, using the documentation _ witness statements, using the documentation we _ witness statements, using the documentation we have - witness statements, using the i documentation we have already witness statements, using the - documentation we have already got, using _ documentation we have already got, using the _ documentation we have already got, using the recollections _ documentation we have already got, using the recollections of _ documentation we have already got, using the recollections of the - documentation we have already got, using the recollections of the post. using the recollections of the post masters— using the recollections of the post masters and — using the recollections of the post masters and mistresses, - using the recollections of the post masters and mistresses, bringing| using the recollections of the post. masters and mistresses, bringing all of that— masters and mistresses, bringing all of that together _ masters and mistresses, bringing all of that together in _ masters and mistresses, bringing all of that together in a _ masters and mistresses, bringing all of that together in a detailed - masters and mistresses, bringing all

of that together in a detailed claim l of that together in a detailed claim form that— of that together in a detailed claim form that goes _ of that together in a detailed claim form that goes into _ of that together in a detailed claim form that goes into the _ of that together in a detailed claim form that goes into the group - form that goes into the group litigation— form that goes into the group litigation order— form that goes into the group litigation order scheme, - form that goes into the group - litigation order scheme, managing the class _ litigation order scheme, managing the class expectations _ litigation order scheme, managing the class expectations as _ litigation order scheme, managing the class expectations as well - litigation order scheme, managing the class expectations as well by l the class expectations as well by giving _ the class expectations as well by giving advice _ the class expectations as well by giving advice on _ the class expectations as well by giving advice on what _ the class expectations as well by giving advice on what we - the class expectations as well by giving advice on what we think. the class expectations as well by giving advice on what we think isi giving advice on what we think is recoverable _ giving advice on what we think is recoverable legally. _ giving advice on what we think is recoverable legally. what - giving advice on what we think is recoverable legally. what is - giving advice on what we think is recoverable legally. what is fairi recoverable legally. what is fair and what — recoverable legally. what is fair and what isn't. _ recoverable legally. what is fair and what isn't. if— recoverable legally. what is fair and what isn't. if we _ recoverable legally. what is fair and what isn't. if we were - recoverable legally. what is fair and what isn't. if we were then| recoverable legally. what is fair- and what isn't. if we were then able to submit— and what isn't. if we were then able to submit that — and what isn't. if we were then able to submit that claim, _ and what isn't. if we were then able to submit that claim, without - and what isn't. if we were then able | to submit that claim, without having to submit that claim, without having to obtain— to submit that claim, without having to obtain countenance _ to submit that claim, without having to obtain countenance input - to submit that claim, without having to obtain countenance input on - to submit that claim, without having| to obtain countenance input on many occasions, _ to obtain countenance input on many occasions, in— to obtain countenance input on many occasions, in some _ to obtain countenance input on many occasions, in some cases _ to obtain countenance input on many occasions, in some cases we - to obtain countenance input on many occasions, in some cases we need i occasions, in some cases we need medical— occasions, in some cases we need medical reports _ occasions, in some cases we need medical reports if— occasions, in some cases we need medical reports if we _ occasions, in some cases we need medical reports if we think - medical reports if we think what has been experienced _ medical reports if we think what has been experienced by _ medical reports if we think what has been experienced by the _ medical reports if we think what has| been experienced by the postmaster is self— been experienced by the postmaster is self evident. — been experienced by the postmaster is self evident, we _ been experienced by the postmaster is self evident, we have _ been experienced by the postmaster is self evident, we have already- is self evident, we have already then— is self evident, we have already then taken— is self evident, we have already then taken out _ is self evident, we have already then taken out potentially- is self evident, we have already then taken out potentially post| then taken out potentially post office _ then taken out potentially post office disclosure _ then taken out potentially post office disclosure out _ then taken out potentially post office disclosure out of - then taken out potentially post office disclosure out of the - office disclosure out of the process, _ office disclosure out of the process, potentially- office disclosure out of the - process, potentially alternative countenance _ process, potentially alternative countenance reports, _ process, potentially alternative countenance reports, in- process, potentially alternative countenance reports, in many. process, potentially alternative - countenance reports, in many cases, not all— countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases. — countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases. and _ countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases, and for— countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases, and for that _ countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases, and for that to - countenance reports, in many cases, not all cases, and for that to work. not all cases, and for that to work it would _ not all cases, and for that to work it would need _ not all cases, and for that to work it would need a _ not all cases, and for that to work it would need a change _ not all cases, and for that to work it would need a change in- not all cases, and for that to work| it would need a change in mindset whereby— it would need a change in mindset whereby the — it would need a change in mindset whereby the starting _ it would need a change in mindset whereby the starting point - it would need a change in mindset whereby the starting point is - it would need a change in mindset whereby the starting point is let's| whereby the starting point is let's not look— whereby the starting point is let's not look at — whereby the starting point is let's not look at all _ whereby the starting point is let's not look at all the _ whereby the starting point is let's not look at all the different - not look at all the different building _ not look at all the different building blocks _ not look at all the different building blocks i _ not look at all the different building blocks i need - not look at all the different building blocks i need to. not look at all the different| building blocks i need to be not look at all the different - building blocks i need to be put together— building blocks i need to be put together which— building blocks i need to be put together which can _ building blocks i need to be put together which can take - building blocks i need to be put| together which can take months building blocks i need to be put-

together which can take months and months. _ together which can take months and months. if— together which can take months and months. if not — together which can take months and months, if not years. _ together which can take months and months, if not years. we _ together which can take months and months, if not years. we will - together which can take months and months, if not years. we will come i months, if not years. we will come back to _ months, if not years. we will come back to the — months, if not years. we will come back to the august _ months, if not years. we will come back to the august deadline - months, if not years. we will come back to the august deadline whichi months, if not years. we will come i back to the august deadline which is not achievable. _ back to the august deadline which is not achievable. so _ back to the august deadline which is not achievable. so the _ back to the august deadline which is not achievable. so the starting - not achievable. so the starting point _ not achievable. so the starting point would _ not achievable. so the starting point would be _ not achievable. so the starting point would be let's _ not achievable. so the starting point would be let's take - not achievable. so the starting point would be let's take a - not achievable. so the startingi point would be let's take a step back— point would be let's take a step back and — point would be let's take a step back and look— point would be let's take a step back and look at _ point would be let's take a step back and look at what - point would be let's take a step back and look at what this - point would be let's take a step l back and look at what this person has been — back and look at what this person has been through. _ back and look at what this person has been through. let's - back and look at what this person has been through. let's look - back and look at what this person has been through. let's look at l back and look at what this person i has been through. let's look at what has been through. let's look at what has been _ has been through. let's look at what has been said — has been through. let's look at what has been said in— has been through. let's look at what has been said in terms— has been through. let's look at what has been said in terms of— has been through. let's look at what has been said in terms of what- has been through. let's look at what has been said in terms of what the l has been said in terms of what the actual— has been said in terms of what the actual qualification— has been said in terms of what the actual qualification should - has been said in terms of what the actual qualification should be, - has been said in terms of what the actual qualification should be, andi actual qualification should be, and use that _ actual qualification should be, and use that as— actual qualification should be, and use that as a — actual qualification should be, and use that as a starting _ actual qualification should be, and use that as a starting point - actual qualification should be, and use that as a starting point to - use that as a starting point to decide — use that as a starting point to decide what— use that as a starting point to decide what is _ use that as a starting point to decide what is full— use that as a starting point to decide what is full and - use that as a starting point to decide what is full and fair. i use that as a starting point to - decide what is full and fair. that's a very— decide what is full and fair. that's a very different _ decide what is full and fair. that's a very different approach - decide what is full and fair. that's a very different approach the - a very different approach the traditional— a very different approach the traditional forensic— a very different approach the traditional forensic legal- a very different approach the - traditional forensic legal analysis. you are _ traditional forensic legal analysis. you are watching _ traditional forensic legal analysis. you are watching two _ traditional forensic legal analysis. you are watching two of - traditional forensic legal analysis. you are watching two of the - traditional forensic legal analysis. . you are watching two of the lawyers in the claimants in the post office scandal giving evidence to mp5. viewers on bbc two are going to leave us. if you want to continue watching, you can scan the qr code on screen. you are watching bbc news. allocated just over £1 billion, but there is a not hard cap on this budget stop presumably the kind of process that you suggest therefore could be

afforded inside the spending commitments that ministers have made? . ., . commitments that ministers have made? , . , ., ., commitments that ministers have made? , . , ., . made? yes, and it is not to say that that approach _ made? yes, and it is not to say that that approach would _ made? yes, and it is not to say that that approach would actually - made? yes, and it is not to say that that approach would actually cost i that approach would actually cost the taxpayer— that approach would actually cost the taxpayer more _ that approach would actually cost the taxpayer more money. - that approach would actually cost the taxpayer more money. it - that approach would actually cost l the taxpayer more money. it might that approach would actually cost - the taxpayer more money. it might do in some _ the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases. — the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases, but _ the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases, but in _ the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases, but in other— the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases, but in other cases, - the taxpayer more money. it might do in some cases, but in other cases, a l in some cases, but in other cases, a client— in some cases, but in other cases, a client may— in some cases, but in other cases, a client may say, _ in some cases, but in other cases, a client may say. no, _ in some cases, but in other cases, a client may say. no, i— in some cases, but in other cases, a client may say, no, i accept - in some cases, but in other cases, a client may say, no, i accept you - client may say, no, i accept you think— client may say, no, i accept you think my— client may say, no, i accept you think my claim— client may say, no, i accept you think my claim is— client may say, no, i accept you think my claim is valued - client may say, no, i accept you think my claim is valued at - client may say, no, i accept you think my claim is valued at x, l client may say, no, i accept you - think my claim is valued at x, which is what _ think my claim is valued at x, which is what we — think my claim is valued at x, which is what we valued _ think my claim is valued at x, which is what we valued it _ think my claim is valued at x, which is what we valued it in _ think my claim is valued at x, which is what we valued it in the - think my claim is valued at x, which is what we valued it in the old - is what we valued it in the old mainstream _ is what we valued it in the old mainstream approach, - is what we valued it in the old mainstream approach, so - is what we valued it in the old mainstream approach, so it. is what we valued it in the old - mainstream approach, so it might not cost more _ mainstream approach, so it might not cost more this — mainstream approach, so it might not cost more. this approach _ mainstream approach, so it might not cost more. this approach would - mainstream approach, so it might not cost more. this approach would not . cost more. this approach would not necessarily— cost more. this approach would not necessarily work— cost more. this approach would not necessarily work for— cost more. this approach would not necessarily work for all _ cost more. this approach would not necessarily work for all cases, - cost more. this approach would not necessarily work for all cases, so i necessarily work for all cases, so there _ necessarily work for all cases, so there will— necessarily work for all cases, so there will be _ necessarily work for all cases, so there will be some _ necessarily work for all cases, so there will be some cases- necessarily work for all cases, so there will be some cases where i necessarily work for all cases, so - there will be some cases where there is a significant — there will be some cases where there is a significant property— there will be some cases where there is a significant property loss, - there will be some cases where there is a significant property loss, loss- is a significant property loss, loss of earnings. — is a significant property loss, loss of earnings, bankruptcy, - is a significant property loss, loss of earnings, bankruptcy, where l is a significant property loss, lossi of earnings, bankruptcy, where we is a significant property loss, loss- of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input _ of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input and — of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input and we _ of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input and we would _ of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input and we would give - of earnings, bankruptcy, where we do need input and we would give the - need input and we would give the clients _ need input and we would give the clients the — need input and we would give the clients the option. _ need input and we would give the clients the option. if— need input and we would give the clients the option. if they - need input and we would give the clients the option. if they want i need input and we would give the clients the option. if they want toi clients the option. if they want to stay on _ clients the option. if they want to stay on the — clients the option. if they want to stay on the main _ clients the option. if they want to stay on the main track _ clients the option. if they want to stay on the main track and - clients the option. if they want to stay on the main track and have i clients the option. if they want to. stay on the main track and have all of that— stay on the main track and have all of that traditional— stay on the main track and have all of that traditional evidential- of that traditional evidential building _ of that traditional evidential building block— of that traditional evidential building block work- of that traditional evidential building block work done, . of that traditional evidential. building block work done, then of that traditional evidential- building block work done, then that absolutely — building block work done, then that absolutely should _ building block work done, then that absolutely should be _ building block work done, then that absolutely should be there - building block work done, then that absolutely should be there right. it| absolutely should be there right. it will take _ absolutely should be there right. it will take longer, _ absolutely should be there right. it will take longer, but— absolutely should be there right. it will take longer, but that _ absolutely should be there right. it will take longer, but that would i absolutely should be there right. it will take longer, but that would be| will take longer, but that would be there _ will take longer, but that would be there right —

there right. you - there right. you have i there right. i you have talked there right. _ you have talked before there right. — you have talked before about the ongoing trauma for victims caught up in the political infighting and the crossfire and, you know, the snails pace of compensation that has been offered to some of your clients. given that the pain and sacrifice that many postmasters have experienced, what difference does the ministerial statement that was made yesterday, what confidence cannot you in terms of may be a change of direction? is there a change of direction? is there a change of direction? and also in the last month or so, there have been a huge number of column inches written about this very crisis, this situation. given we have had all of that, are you seeing any serious changes in the way that things have been handled, and is there any

confidence that you can pass on to your clients in terms of seeing light at the end of the tunnel? or is itjust a continuous process of wait and see and delay and complication?— wait and see and delay and comlication? . ., . complication? the announcement esterda complication? the announcement yesterday essentially _ complication? the announcement yesterday essentially followed i yesterday essentially followed discussion with lawyers, so the minister— discussion with lawyers, so the minister listens, and interim payments will help. but we heard tim, _ payments will help. but we heard tim, who — payments will help. but we heard tim, who is having a baby injune, and once— tim, who is having a baby injune, and once closure. all these things help to _ and once closure. all these things help to mitigate the bigger problem, and the _ help to mitigate the bigger problem, and the bigger problem is around the over engineering, layers of bureaucracy and lack of resources to tackle _ bureaucracy and lack of resources to tackle this — bureaucracy and lack of resources to tackle this. just a touch and one

other— tackle this. just a touch and one other issue, certainly in the overturned conviction cases, the speed _ overturned conviction cases, the speed of— overturned conviction cases, the speed of that is way too slow. post office _ speed of that is way too slow. post office have — speed of that is way too slow. post office have indicated an inability to deal— office have indicated an inability to deal with bigger numbers at this stage _ to deal with bigger numbers at this stage. again, for me to be able to crack— stage. again, for me to be able to crack these — stage. again, for me to be able to crack these nuts, we need a combination of more creative thinking, _ combination of more creative thinking, some self certification, and some — thinking, some self certification, and some more resource applied to that before — and some more resource applied to that before we get that next tranche of acquittals that come over the hill in _ of acquittals that come over the hill in a — of acquittals that come over the hill in a few months' time. from our perspective — hill in a few months' time. from our perspective in _ hill in a few months' time. from our perspective in the _ hill in a few months' time. from our perspective in the group _ hill in a few months' time. from our perspective in the group litigation l perspective in the group litigation 0rder— perspective in the group litigation 0rder scheme, _ perspective in the group litigation order scheme, we— perspective in the group litigation order scheme, we welcome - perspective in the group litigation order scheme, we welcome the i perspective in the group litigation- order scheme, we welcome the interim payment _ order scheme, we welcome the interim payment announcement, _ order scheme, we welcome the interim payment announcement, albeit - order scheme, we welcome the interim payment announcement, albeit there i payment announcement, albeit there is some _ payment announcement, albeit there is some detail— payment announcement, albeit there is some detail in _ payment announcement, albeit there is some detail in there _ payment announcement, albeit there is some detail in there that _ payment announcement, albeit there is some detail in there that we - payment announcement, albeit there is some detail in there that we want. is some detail in there that we want the opportunity— is some detail in there that we want the opportunity to— is some detail in there that we want the opportunity to go _ is some detail in there that we want the opportunity to go over, - is some detail in there that we want the opportunity to go over, not i the opportunity to go over, not least _ the opportunity to go over, not least the — the opportunity to go over, not least the time _ the opportunity to go over, not least the time of _ the opportunity to go over, not least the time of interim - the opportunity to go over, not i least the time of interim payments because _ least the time of interim payments because that — least the time of interim payments because that announcement - least the time of interim payments because that announcement is i least the time of interim payments because that announcement is for| because that announcement is for interim _ because that announcement is for interim payments— because that announcement is for interim payments to _ because that announcement is for interim payments to be _ because that announcement is for interim payments to be triggeredl interim payments to be triggered upon _ interim payments to be triggered

upon offer. — interim payments to be triggered upon offer, which _ interim payments to be triggered upon offer, which is _ interim payments to be triggered upon offer, which is for— interim payments to be triggered upon offer, which is for many- interim payments to be triggered upon offer, which is for many of. interim payments to be triggered . upon offer, which is for many of our client— upon offer, which is for many of our client is— upon offer, which is for many of our client is a _ upon offer, which is for many of our client is a long _ upon offer, which is for many of our client is a long way _ upon offer, which is for many of our client is a long way down _ upon offer, which is for many of our client is a long way down the - upon offer, which is for many of our client is a long way down the line. l client is a long way down the line. a long _ client is a long way down the line. a long way— client is a long way down the line. a long way down _ client is a long way down the line. a long way down the _ client is a long way down the line. a long way down the line. - a long way down the line. paradoxically, _ a long way down the line. paradoxically, we - a long way down the line. paradoxically, we are - a long way down the line. i paradoxically, we are talking a long way down the line. - paradoxically, we are talking about the group — paradoxically, we are talking about the group litigation— paradoxically, we are talking about the group litigation order- the group litigation order claimants, _ the group litigation order claimants, who _ the group litigation order claimants, who in - the group litigation order claimants, who in many. the group litigation order- claimants, who in many cases, i the group litigation order— claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the _ claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the cases— claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the cases are — claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the cases are serious, _ claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the cases are serious, but - claimants, who in many cases, i mean all the cases are serious, but these i all the cases are serious, but these are the _ all the cases are serious, but these are the most— all the cases are serious, but these are the most acute _ all the cases are serious, but these are the most acute cases _ all the cases are serious, but these are the most acute cases and - all the cases are serious, but these are the most acute cases and theyi are the most acute cases and they will have _ are the most acute cases and they will have to — are the most acute cases and they will have to wait _ are the most acute cases and they will have to wait and _ are the most acute cases and they will have to wait and wait - are the most acute cases and they will have to wait and wait until- are the most acute cases and they will have to wait and wait until the evidence _ will have to wait and wait until the evidence olding _ will have to wait and wait until the evidence olding blocks— will have to wait and wait until the evidence olding blocks together. evidence olding blocks together before _ evidence olding blocks together before the — evidence olding blocks together before the claim _ evidence olding blocks together before the claim goes _ evidence olding blocks together before the claim goes in, - evidence olding blocks togetheri before the claim goes in, before they get— before the claim goes in, before they get an _ before the claim goes in, before they get an offer. _ before the claim goes in, before they get an offer. months - before the claim goes in, before they get an offer. months and l they get an offer. months and months — they get an offer. months and months so— they get an offer. months and months. so welcome, - they get an offer. months and months. so welcome, but- they get an offer. months and months. so welcome, but tooi they get an offer. months and - months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other— months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point— months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point i— months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point i make _ months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point i make is _ months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point i make is that— months. so welcome, but too slow. on the other point i make is that there - the other point i make is that there is a need _ the other point i make is that there is a need for— the other point i make is that there is a need for something _ the other point i make is that there is a need for something radical- the other point i make is that there is a need for something radical in. is a need for something radical in the group — is a need for something radical in the group litigation— is a need for something radical in the group litigation order- is a need for something radical in| the group litigation order scheme along _ the group litigation order scheme along the — the group litigation order scheme along the tines _ the group litigation order scheme along the lines i— the group litigation order scheme along the lines i have _ the group litigation order scheme along the lines i have described i the group litigation order scheme| along the lines i have described for us to— along the lines i have described for us to make — along the lines i have described for us to make a — along the lines i have described for us to make a difference _ along the lines i have described for us to make a difference here. - along the lines i have described for us to make a difference here. yeti us to make a difference here. yet because _ us to make a difference here. yet because the — us to make a difference here. yet because the timing _ us to make a difference here. yet because the timing through - us to make a difference here. yet because the timing through the l because the timing through the process— because the timing through the process complexities _ because the timing through the process complexities going - because the timing through the process complexities going to i because the timing through the . process complexities going to get worse. _ process complexities going to get worse, because _ process complexities going to get worse, because the _ process complexities going to get worse, because the statistics - process complexities going to get worse, because the statistics are| worse, because the statistics are talking _ worse, because the statistics are talking about _ worse, because the statistics are talking about and _ worse, because the statistics are talking about and evidence - worse, because the statistics arel talking about and evidence earlier on, talking about and evidence earlier on. around — talking about and evidence earlier on. around the _ talking about and evidence earlier on, around the number— talking about and evidence earlier on, around the number of- talking about and evidence earlier on, around the number of claimsi talking about and evidence earlier- on, around the number of claims that have been— on, around the number of claims that have been settled, _ on, around the number of claims that have been settled, which _ on, around the number of claims that have been settled, which is— on, around the number of claims that have been settled, which isjust - have been settled, which isjust over— have been settled, which isjust over 100, — have been settled, which isjust over 100, 107, _ have been settled, which isjust over 100, 107, they— have been settled, which isjust

over 100, 107, they include - have been settled, which isjust over 100, 107, they include the| over 100, 107, they include the £75,000 — over100, 107, they include the £75,000 acceptances- over 100, 107, they include the £75,000 acceptances which - over 100, 107, they include the| £75,000 acceptances which are over 100, 107, they include the - £75,000 acceptances which are the more _ £75,000 acceptances which are the more straightforward _ £75,000 acceptances which are the more straightforward ones. - £75,000 acceptances which are the more straightforward ones. i'm - £75,000 acceptances which are the i more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to— more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to say— more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to say that — more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to say that the _ more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to say that the more _ more straightforward ones. i'm quite sad to say that the more complex - sad to say that the more complex ctainrs, _ sad to say that the more complex ctainrs, we — sad to say that the more complex ctainrs, we only— sad to say that the more complex claims, we only have _ sad to say that the more complex claims, we only have two - sad to say that the more complex claims, we only have two that - sad to say that the more complex i claims, we only have two that have settled _ claims, we only have two that have settled from — claims, we only have two that have settled from the _ claims, we only have two that have settled from the 12 _ claims, we only have two that have settled from the 12 offers - claims, we only have two that have settled from the 12 offers that - claims, we only have two that have settled from the 12 offers that we l settled from the 12 offers that we have had — settled from the 12 offers that we have had. again, _ settled from the 12 offers that we have had. again, i— settled from the 12 offers that we have had. again, i stress - settled from the 12 offers that we have had. again, i stress that- settled from the 12 offers that we have had. again, i stress that is. have had. again, i stress that is not a _ have had. again, i stress that is not a criticism, _ have had. again, i stress that is not a criticism, it _ have had. again, i stress that is not a criticism, it is— have had. again, i stress that is not a criticism, it is a _ have had. again, i stress that is not a criticism, it is a function . have had. again, i stress that is| not a criticism, it is a function of the process _ not a criticism, it is a function of the process. again, _ not a criticism, it is a function of the process. again, i— not a criticism, it is a function of the process. again, i stress - not a criticism, it is a function of the process. again, i stress it. not a criticism, it is a function of the process. again, i stress it is| the process. again, i stress it is going _ the process. again, i stress it is going to — the process. again, i stress it is going to get _ the process. again, i stress it is going to get worse. _ the process. again, i stress it is going to get worse. that - the process. again, i stress it is going to get worse. that is - the process. again, i stress it is going to get worse. that is why| the process. again, i stress it is. going to get worse. that is why we need _ going to get worse. that is why we need a _ going to get worse. that is why we need a radical— going to get worse. that is why we need a radical change _ going to get worse. that is why we need a radical change of— going to get worse. that is why we need a radical change of approach. what _ need a radical change of approach. what would — need a radical change of approach. what would a _ need a radical change of approach. what would a radical _ need a radical change of approach. what would a radical approach - need a radical change of approach. | what would a radical approach look like? a radical change of approach? so, i come back to the suggestion i outtined _ so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier— so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier on— so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier on in— so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier on in terms - so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier on in terms of, - so, i come back to the suggestion i outlined earlier on in terms of, i. outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't — outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't quite _ outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't quite put _ outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't quite put it— outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't quite put it as - outlined earlier on in terms of, i wouldn't quite put it as self- wouldn't quite put it as self certification, _ wouldn't quite put it as self certification, but— wouldn't quite put it as self certification, but that - wouldn't quite put it as self certification, but that is - wouldn't quite put it as selfi certification, but that is the point — certification, but that is the point so— certification, but that is the point. so the _ certification, but that is the point. so the evidential- certification, but that is the - point. so the evidential benefit of the doubt — point. so the evidential benefit of the doubt given— point. so the evidential benefit of the doubt given by—

point. so the evidential benefit of the doubt given by dbt_ point. so the evidential benefit of the doubt given by dbt to - point. so the evidential benefit of l the doubt given by dbt to claimants when _ the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the _ the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim— the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is— the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is put— the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is put in— the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is put in so- the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is put in so they- the doubt given by dbt to claimants when the claim is put in so they are| when the claim is put in so they are not coming — when the claim is put in so they are not coming back— when the claim is put in so they are not coming back and _ when the claim is put in so they are not coming back and saying - when the claim is put in so they are not coming back and saying we - when the claim is put in so they are| not coming back and saying we need an accountants — not coming back and saying we need an accountants report, _ not coming back and saying we need an accountants report, a _ not coming back and saying we need an accountants report, a medical- an accountants report, a medical report, _ an accountants report, a medical report, this — an accountants report, a medical report. this and _ an accountants report, a medical report, this and that, _ an accountants report, a medical report, this and that, you - an accountants report, a medical report, this and that, you need l an accountants report, a medicali report, this and that, you need to draw— report, this and that, you need to draw back— report, this and that, you need to draw back and _ report, this and that, you need to draw back and get _ report, this and that, you need to draw back and get the _ report, this and that, you need toi draw back and get the documents. resource — draw back and get the documents. resource is — draw back and get the documents. resource is not _ draw back and get the documents. resource is not the _ draw back and get the documents. resource is not the issue - draw back and get the documents. resource is not the issue from - draw back and get the documents. resource is not the issue from ouri resource is not the issue from our perspective — resource is not the issue from our perspective we _ resource is not the issue from our perspective. we have _ resource is not the issue from our perspective. we have got - resource is not the issue from our perspective. we have got 23 - resource is not the issue from our. perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working _ perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on _ perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on this _ perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on this so _ perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on this so resource - perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on this so resource is- perspective. we have got 23 lawyers working on this so resource is not. working on this so resource is not the issue — working on this so resource is not the issue it— working on this so resource is not the issue. ,., , working on this so resource is not the issue. , ~ working on this so resource is not the issue. , ,, i. working on this so resource is not the issue-— the issue. it sounds like you have not three the issue. it sounds like you have got three times _ the issue. it sounds like you have got three times more _ the issue. it sounds like you have got three times more lawyers - the issue. it sounds like you have l got three times more lawyers than the government.— the government. yes. just briefly _ the government. yes. just briefly you - the government. yes. - just briefly you mentioned the government. yes. _ just briefly you mentioned again complex— just briefly you mentioned again complex cases. generally speaking, is a complex case, or a complex apptication _ is a complex case, or a complex application for compensation, is it application for compensation, is it a higher— application for compensation, is it a higher value case, application for compensation, is it a highervalue case, ratherthan application for compensation, is it a higher value case, rather than a complex— a higher value case, rather than a complex case question mark it tends to be _ complex case question mark it tends to be. as _ complex case question mark it tends to be. �* , , complex case question mark it tends to be. as you quite rightly said earlier on. _ to be. as you quite rightly said earlier on, complex _ to be. as you quite rightly said earlier on, complex cases - to be. as you quite rightly said i earlier on, complex cases where to be. as you quite rightly said - earlier on, complex cases where the impact _ earlier on, complex cases where the impact has _ earlier on, complex cases where the impact has been _ earlier on, complex cases where the impact has been the _ earlier on, complex cases where the impact has been the most _ earlier on, complex cases where the impact has been the most severe, . impact has been the most severe, financiat, — impact has been the most severe, financial, personal, _ impact has been the most severe, financial, personal, etc. _ impact has been the most severe, financial, personal, etc. but- impact has been the most severe, financial, personal, etc. but yes,| financial, personal, etc. but yes, the most — financial, personal, etc. but yes,

the most complex _ financial, personal, etc. but yes, the most complex ones - financial, personal, etc. but yes, the most complex ones do - financial, personal, etc. but yes, the most complex ones do tend i financial, personal, etc. but yes,i the most complex ones do tend to financial, personal, etc. but yes, - the most complex ones do tend to be the most complex ones do tend to be the higher— the most complex ones do tend to be the higher value _ the most complex ones do tend to be the higher value ones _ the most complex ones do tend to be the higher value ones because - the most complex ones do tend to be the higher value ones because it - the most complex ones do tend to be the higher value ones because it hasi the higher value ones because it has -ot the higher value ones because it has got a _ the higher value ones because it has got a broader— the higher value ones because it has got a broader range _ the higher value ones because it has got a broader range of— the higher value ones because it has got a broader range of impact- got a broader range of impact factors — got a broader range of impact factors. ~ ., ., ., factors. we heard from tim and the factors. we heard from tim and the fact that his — factors. we heard from tim and the fact that his conviction _ factors. we heard from tim and the fact that his conviction was - fact that his conviction was overturned in 2021, three years ago. he did _ overturned in 2021, three years ago. he did say. — overturned in 2021, three years ago. he did say, by the way, his application was ready to be submitted, so i understand that might— submitted, so i understand that might not— submitted, so i understand that might not be the same as the rest, but the _ might not be the same as the rest, but the overturned convictions process, — but the overturned convictions process, how long do you think ctients — process, how long do you think clients should be expected to wait at each _ clients should be expected to wait at each stage in the process before they can _ at each stage in the process before they can get compensation? or at least _ they can get compensation? or at least get — they can get compensation? or at least get enough of the compensation? | least get enough of the compensation?- least get enough of the compensation? least get enough of the com ensation? ,, ., , ., compensation? i think that if you are following _ compensation? i think that if you are following a _ compensation? i think that if you are following a normal _ compensation? i think that if you are following a normal litigation l are following a normal litigation path of — are following a normal litigation path of disclosure, _ are following a normal litigation path of disclosure, medical - path of disclosure, medical evidence, _ path of disclosure, medical evidence, accountancy- path of disclosure, medical - evidence, accountancy evidence, negotiation, _ evidence, accountancy evidence, negotiation, at _ evidence, accountancy evidence, negotiation, at most _ evidence, accountancy evidence, negotiation, at most two - evidence, accountancy evidence, negotiation, at most two years. i negotiation, at most two years. possibly— negotiation, at most two years. possiblv18_ negotiation, at most two years. possibly 18 months. _ negotiation, at most two years. possibly 18 months. there - negotiation, at most two years. possibly 18 months. there is. negotiation, at most two years. possibly 18 months. there is a i possibly 18 months. there is a lead-in— possibly 18 months. there is a lead-in time—

possibly 18 months. there is a lead—in time off _ possibly 18 months. there is a lead—in time off work - possibly 18 months. there is a lead—in time off work that - possibly 18 months. there is a lead—in time off work that is l lead—in time off work that is needed, _ lead—in time off work that is needed, and _ lead—in time off work that is needed, and here— lead—in time off work that is needed, and here we - lead—in time off work that is needed, and here we had i lead—in time off work that is| needed, and here we had an lead—in time off work that is _ needed, and here we had an agreement with post _ needed, and here we had an agreement with post office — needed, and here we had an agreement with post office to _ needed, and here we had an agreement with post office to run _ needed, and here we had an agreement with post office to run a _ needed, and here we had an agreement with post office to run a number of - with post office to run a number of trial cases — with post office to run a number of trial cases that— with post office to run a number of trial cases that would _ with post office to run a number of trial cases that would then - with post office to run a number of trial cases that would then create i with post office to run a number of| trial cases that would then create a set of _ trial cases that would then create a set of principles _ trial cases that would then create a set of principles that _ trial cases that would then create a set of principles that could - trial cases that would then create a set of principles that could be - set of principles that could be rolled — set of principles that could be rolled out _ set of principles that could be rolled out to _ set of principles that could be rolled out to the _ set of principles that could be rolled out to the rest - set of principles that could be rolled out to the rest of - set of principles that could be rolled out to the rest of the l rolled out to the rest of the claimants _ rolled out to the rest of the claimants with _ rolled out to the rest of the claimants with a _ rolled out to the rest of the claimants with a view - rolled out to the rest of the claimants with a view to - rolled out to the rest of the - claimants with a view to making the process _ claimants with a view to making the process much— claimants with a view to making the process much simpler. _ claimants with a view to making the process much simpler. but - claimants with a view to making the process much simpler. but it- claimants with a view to making the process much simpler. but it has. process much simpler. but it has been _ process much simpler. but it has been a _ process much simpler. but it has been a very— process much simpler. but it has been a very painful— process much simpler. but it has been a very painfuljourney - process much simpler. but it has been a very painfuljourney to . process much simpler. but it has| been a very painfuljourney to get from _ been a very painfuljourney to get from april— been a very painfuljourney to get from april 2001 _ been a very painfuljourney to get from april 2001 up _ been a very painfuljourney to get from april 2001 up to _ been a very painfuljourney to get from april 2001 up to fabry- been a very painfuljourney to get| from april 2001 up to fabry 2024. been a very painfuljourney to get - from april 2001 up to fabry 2024. -- from april 2001 up to fabry 2024. february. the initial interim payment february. — the initial interim payment and then the non-pecuniary— the initial interim payment and then the non—pecuniary losses _ the initial interim payment and then the non—pecuniary losses are - the non—pecuniary losses are typically— the non—pecuniary losses are typically sorted, _ the non—pecuniary losses are typically sorted, following. the non—pecuniary losses are typically sorted, following ani the non—pecuniary losses are - typically sorted, following an early valuation, — typically sorted, following an early valuation, so— typically sorted, following an early valuation, so most— typically sorted, following an early valuation, so most people - typically sorted, following an early valuation, so most people have i typically sorted, following an earlyi valuation, so most people have had two or— valuation, so most people have had two or three — valuation, so most people have had two or three interim _ valuation, so most people have had two or three interim payments. - valuation, so most people have had two or three interim payments. buti two or three interim payments. but the real— two or three interim payments. but the real block— two or three interim payments. but the real block is _ two or three interim payments. but the real block is the _ two or three interim payments. but the real block is the amount - two or three interim payments. but the real block is the amount of - two or three interim payments. but| the real block is the amount of time it takes— the real block is the amount of time it takes to _ the real block is the amount of time it takes to reach _ the real block is the amount of time it takes to reach any _ the real block is the amount of time it takes to reach any significant - it takes to reach any significant progress — it takes to reach any significant progress along _ it takes to reach any significant progress along the _ it takes to reach any significant progress along the lines - it takes to reach any significant progress along the lines of- progress along the lines of correspondence _ progress along the lines of correspondence which - progress along the lines of- correspondence which normally progress along the lines of— correspondence which normally takes a number— correspondence which normally takes

a number of— correspondence which normally takes a number of months _ correspondence which normally takes a number of months to _ correspondence which normally takes a number of months to elicit - correspondence which normally takes a number of months to elicit a - a number of months to elicit a replv~ — a number of months to elicit a reply. ultimately, _ a number of months to elicit a reply. ultimately, the - a number of months to elicit a i reply. ultimately, the claimants a number of months to elicit a - reply. ultimately, the claimants are in high— reply. ultimately, the claimants are in high court— reply. ultimately, the claimants are in high court proceedings, - reply. ultimately, the claimants are in high court proceedings, but - reply. ultimately, the claimants are| in high court proceedings, but these are people _ in high court proceedings, but these are people that— in high court proceedings, but these are people that can't _ in high court proceedings, but these are people that can't issue _ in high court proceedings, but these are people that can't issue high- are people that can't issue high court _ are people that can't issue high court proceedings— are people that can't issue high court proceedings for— are people that can't issue high court proceedings for obvious i court proceedings for obvious reasons _ court proceedings for obvious reasons. this— court proceedings for obvious reasons. this morning, - court proceedings for obvious reasons. this morning, some| court proceedings for obvious . reasons. this morning, some of court proceedings for obvious - reasons. this morning, some of the things— reasons. this morning, some of the things we _ reasons. this morning, some of the things we have _ reasons. this morning, some of the things we have heard _ reasons. this morning, some of the things we have heard that, - reasons. this morning, some of the things we have heard that, i- reasons. this morning, some of the things we have heard that, i think. things we have heard that, i think tim, _ things we have heard that, i think tim, tonv— things we have heard that, i think tim, tonvand _ things we have heard that, i think tim, tony and other— things we have heard that, i think tim, tony and other people - things we have heard that, i think tim, tony and other people in - things we have heard that, i think| tim, tony and other people in the room _ tim, tony and other people in the room will— tim, tony and other people in the room will be — tim, tony and other people in the room will be a _ tim, tony and other people in the room will be a little _ tim, tony and other people in the room will be a little bit _ tim, tony and other people in the room will be a little bit annoyed . room will be a little bit annoyed and amazed _ room will be a little bit annoyed and amazed that _ room will be a little bit annoyed and amazed that those - room will be a little bit annoyed and amazed that those woundsi room will be a little bit annoyed i and amazed that those wounds and scars _ and amazed that those wounds and scars have — and amazed that those wounds and scars have not _ and amazed that those wounds and scars have not yet _ and amazed that those wounds and scars have not yet healed, - and amazed that those wounds and scars have not yet healed, they- and amazed that those wounds and scars have not yet healed, they are reopened. — scars have not yet healed, they are reopened. and _ scars have not yet healed, they are reopened. and so— scars have not yet healed, they are reopened, and so it _ scars have not yet healed, they are reopened, and so it all— scars have not yet healed, they are reopened, and so it all makes - scars have not yet healed, they are reopened, and so it all makes the i reopened, and so it all makes the process— reopened, and so it all makes the process incredibly— reopened, and so it all makes the process incredibly difficult. - reopened, and so it all makes the process incredibly difficult. it - reopened, and so it all makes the process incredibly difficult. it is. process incredibly difficult. it is one that — process incredibly difficult. it is one that we _ process incredibly difficult. it is one that we have _ process incredibly difficult. it is one that we have to _ process incredibly difficult. it is one that we have to sensitively| one that we have to sensitively manage — one that we have to sensitively manage to _ one that we have to sensitively manage to get _ one that we have to sensitively manage to get to _ one that we have to sensitively manage to get to the - one that we have to sensitively manage to get to the end. - one that we have to sensitively manage to get to the end. so, | one that we have to sensitively- manage to get to the end. so, three years— manage to get to the end. so, three years sounds — manage to get to the end. so, three years sounds like _ manage to get to the end. so, three years sounds like an _ manage to get to the end. so, three years sounds like an inordinate - years sounds like an inordinate length — years sounds like an inordinate length of— years sounds like an inordinate length of time, _ years sounds like an inordinate length of time, and _ years sounds like an inordinate length of time, and it- years sounds like an inordinate length of time, and it is- length of time, and it is unacceptable, - length of time, and it is unacceptable, but - length of time, and it is unacceptable, but it- length of time, and it is unacceptable, but it is. length of time, and it is| unacceptable, but it is a length of time, and it is- unacceptable, but it is a product length of time, and it is— unacceptable, but it is a product of a system _ unacceptable, but it is a product of a system that— unacceptable, but it is a product of a system that is— unacceptable, but it is a product of a system that is bureaucratic- unacceptable, but it is a product of a system that is bureaucratic and i a system that is bureaucratic and slow _ a system that is bureaucratic and slow. �* . a system that is bureaucratic and slow. . . , ., , a system that is bureaucratic and slow. . . , slow. and all the people you represent — slow. and all the people you represent to _ slow. and all the people you represent to actually - slow. and all the people youl represent to actually received

compensation and accepted the final settlement of financial redress, are the majority happy with that? i the majority happy with that? i think the majority happy with that? think you the majority happy with that? i think you have to look at it in the context— think you have to look at it in the context that _ think you have to look at it in the context that these _ think you have to look at it in the context that these are _ think you have to look at it in the context that these are badly - think you have to look at it in the i context that these are badly scarred people~ _ context that these are badly scarred people. nothing _ context that these are badly scarred people. nothing is— context that these are badly scarred people. nothing is ever— context that these are badly scarred people. nothing is ever enough. - context that these are badly scarred| people. nothing is ever enough. but adopting _ people. nothing is ever enough. but adopting established _ people. nothing is ever enough. but adopting established legal— adopting established legal principles— adopting established legal principles for— adopting established legal principles for some - adopting established legal- principles for some £600,000 is worth— principles for some £600,000 is worth more — principles for some £600,000 is worth more than— principles for some £600,000 is worth more than the _ principles for some £600,000 is worth more than the amount - principles for some £600,000 is| worth more than the amount they would _ worth more than the amount they would get — worth more than the amount they would get if— worth more than the amount they would get if they— worth more than the amount they would get if they went _ worth more than the amount they would get if they went through i worth more than the amount they would get if they went through a i would get if they went through a court _ would get if they went through a court process _ would get if they went through a court process. and _ would get if they went through a court process. and for— would get if they went through a court process. and for some - would get if they went through a court process. and for some it. would get if they went through a j court process. and for some it is closure~ — court process. and for some it is closure~ and _ court process. and for some it is closure. and this _ court process. and for some it is closure. and this is— court process. and for some it is closure. and this is where - court process. and for some it is closure. and this is where we . court process. and for some it is| closure. and this is where we get court process. and for some it is. closure. and this is where we get to this idea _ closure. and this is where we get to this idea about— closure. and this is where we get to this idea about trying _ closure. and this is where we get to this idea about trying to _ closure. and this is where we get to this idea about trying to suck - closure. and this is where we get to this idea about trying to suck the i this idea about trying to suck the last penny— this idea about trying to suck the last penny out _ this idea about trying to suck the last penny out. what _ this idea about trying to suck the last penny out. what is- this idea about trying to suck the last penny out. what is that - this idea about trying to suck the i last penny out. what is that number for somebody— last penny out. what is that number for somebody to _ last penny out. what is that number for somebody to be _ last penny out. what is that number for somebody to be able _ last penny out. what is that number for somebody to be able to - last penny out. what is that number for somebody to be able to walk - last penny out. what is that number. for somebody to be able to walk away and get _ for somebody to be able to walk away and get on _ for somebody to be able to walk away and get on with— for somebody to be able to walk away and get on with their _ for somebody to be able to walk away and get on with their life? _ for somebody to be able to walk away and get on with their life? the - and get on with their life? the sooner— and get on with their life? the sooner we _ and get on with their life? the sooner we get— and get on with their life? the sooner we get an _ and get on with their life? the sooner we get an offer- and get on with their life? the sooner we get an offer on - and get on with their life? the sooner we get an offer on the | and get on with their life? the - sooner we get an offer on the table for the _ sooner we get an offer on the table for the people _ sooner we get an offer on the table for the people that _ sooner we get an offer on the table for the people that are _ sooner we get an offer on the table for the people that are still- for the people that are still waiting _ for the people that are still waiting on— for the people that are still waiting on the _ for the people that are still waiting on the overturned i waiting on the overturned convictions _ waiting on the overturned convictions scheme, - waiting on the overturned convictions scheme, the i waiting on the overturned - convictions scheme, the sooner we can start _ convictions scheme, the sooner we can start to— convictions scheme, the sooner we can start to bring _ convictions scheme, the sooner we can start to bring closure _ convictions scheme, the sooner we can start to bring closure to - convictions scheme, the sooner we can start to bring closure to some. can start to bring closure to some of those _ can start to bring closure to some of those people _

can start to bring closure to some of those maple-— can start to bring closure to some of those people-— of those people. how do you compensate _ of those people. how do you compensate for _ of those people. how do you compensate for a _ of those people. how do you compensate for a family - of those people. how do you - compensate for a family member who has taken _ compensate for a family member who has taken their own life, committed suicide? _ has taken their own life, committed suicide? how do you start trying to even _ suicide? how do you start trying to even compensate for that? it is horrific. it's _ even compensate for that? it is horrific. it's horrific— even compensate for that? it is horrific. it's horrific to - even compensate for that? it is horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and _ horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we — horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we hear— horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we hear it— horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we hear it so— horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we hear it so many- horrific. it's horrific to hear it, and we hear it so many times| horrific. it's horrific to hear it, - and we hear it so many times because those _ and we hear it so many times because those people — and we hear it so many times because those people are _ and we hear it so many times because those people are as _ and we hear it so many times because those people are as approximately- those people are as approximately what has _ those people are as approximately what has gone _ those people are as approximately what has gone on _ those people are as approximately what has gone on as— those people are as approximately what has gone on as the _ what has gone on as the sub—postmasters. - what has gone on as the sub—postmasters. in - what has gone on as the . sub—postmasters. in some what has gone on as the _ sub—postmasters. in some instances. every— sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case _ sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is — sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is unique _ sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is unique. i— sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is unique. i had _ sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is unique. i had a - sub—postmasters. in some instances. every case is unique. i had a chap- every case is unique. i had a chap who went — every case is unique. i had a chap who went to— every case is unique. i had a chap who went to prison _ every case is unique. i had a chap who went to prison and _ every case is unique. i had a chap who went to prison and said - every case is unique. i had a chap who went to prison and said he i every case is unique. i had a chap. who went to prison and said he had it easier— who went to prison and said he had it easier because _ who went to prison and said he had it easier because his— who went to prison and said he had it easier because his wife _ who went to prison and said he had it easier because his wife had - who went to prison and said he had it easier because his wife had to i who went to prison and said he had it easier because his wife had to go out into— it easier because his wife had to go out into the — it easier because his wife had to go out into the community _ it easier because his wife had to go out into the community and - it easier because his wife had to go out into the community and face i it easier because his wife had to goi out into the community and face the tittle out into the community and face the tittte tattle — out into the community and face the tittle tattle. the _ out into the community and face the tittle tattle. the problem _ out into the community and face the tittle tattle. the problem with - out into the community and face the tittle tattle. the problem with that i tittle tattle. the problem with that is that _ tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at _ tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at the — tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at the minute _ tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at the minute there - tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at the minute there is - tittle tattle. the problem with that is that at the minute there is no i is that at the minute there is no mechanism _ is that at the minute there is no mechanism for— is that at the minute there is no mechanism for family— is that at the minute there is no mechanism for family membersi is that at the minute there is no . mechanism for family members to is that at the minute there is no - mechanism for family members to be compensated — mechanism for family members to be compensated. the _ mechanism for family members to be compensated. the nearest _ mechanism for family members to be compensated. the nearest you - mechanism for family members to be compensated. the nearest you can i mechanism for family members to be. compensated. the nearest you can get to it is, _ compensated. the nearest you can get to it is, in _ compensated. the nearest you can get to it is, in effect, _ compensated. the nearest you can get to it is, in effect, the _ compensated. the nearest you can get to it is, in effect, the psychiatric- to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect _ to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect of— to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect of their— to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect of their suffering - to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect of their suffering and - to it is, in effect, the psychiatric effect of their suffering and howi to it is, in effect, the psychiatric. effect of their suffering and how it impacts _ effect of their suffering and how it impacts on— effect of their suffering and how it impacts on the _ effect of their suffering and how it impacts on the sub—postmasters,| effect of their suffering and how it. impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there _ impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there is— impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there is a _ impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there is a whole — impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there is a whole cohort _ impacts on the sub—postmasters, but there is a whole cohort of _ there is a whole cohort of ctaimants, _ there is a whole cohort of claimants, in— there is a whole cohort of claimants, in the - there is a whole cohort of claimants, in the same i there is a whole cohort of i claimants, in the same way there is a whole cohort of - claimants, in the same way and there is a whole cohort of _ claimants, in the same way and this is something — claimants, in the same way and this is something else _ claimants, in the same way and this is something else that _ claimants, in the same way and this is something else that we _ claimants, in the same way and this is something else that we will-

claimants, in the same way and this is something else that we will no i is something else that we will no doubt _ is something else that we will no doubt come _ is something else that we will no doubt come to _ is something else that we will no doubt come to scrutinise - is something else that we will no doubt come to scrutinise at - is something else that we will no| doubt come to scrutinise at some point, _ doubt come to scrutinise at some point, there — doubt come to scrutinise at some point. there are _ doubt come to scrutinise at some point, there are other— doubt come to scrutinise at some point, there are other victims- doubt come to scrutinise at some. point, there are other victims from pre-2000 — point, there are other victims from pre-2000 in— point, there are other victims from pre—2000 in what _ point, there are other victims from pre—2000 in what is _ point, there are other victims from pre—2000 in what is classed - point, there are other victims from pre—2000 in what is classed as - point, there are other victims fromi pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture _ pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture period. _ pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture period, that— pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture period, that will— pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture period, that will no - pre—2000 in what is classed as the capture period, that will no doubt i capture period, that will no doubt need _ capture period, that will no doubt need to— capture period, that will no doubt need to be — capture period, that will no doubt need to be looked _ capture period, that will no doubt need to be looked out— capture period, that will no doubt need to be looked out at- capture period, that will no doubt need to be looked out at some i capture period, that will no doubt - need to be looked out at some point. but there _ need to be looked out at some point. but there are — need to be looked out at some point. but there are many _ need to be looked out at some point. but there are many other— need to be looked out at some point. but there are many other victims - but there are many other victims that sit— but there are many other victims that sit outside _ but there are many other victims that sit outside those _ but there are many other victims that sit outside those who - but there are many other victims that sit outside those who are i that sit outside those who are currently _ that sit outside those who are currently able _ that sit outside those who are currently able to _ that sit outside those who are currently able to be _ that sit outside those who are - currently able to be compensated and perhaps _ currently able to be compensated and perhaps in _ currently able to be compensated and perhaps in due — currently able to be compensated and perhaps in due course _ currently able to be compensated and perhaps in due course should - currently able to be compensated and perhaps in due course should come i perhaps in due course should come within— perhaps in due course should come within focus — perhaps in due course should come within focus. must— perhaps in due course should come within focus-— within focus. just a final question. there are individuals _ within focus. just a final question. there are individuals who - within focus. just a final question. there are individuals who were . within focus. just a final question. | there are individuals who were not implied _ there are individuals who were not implied by— there are individuals who were not implied by the post office, but they were employed for example by the newsagent where the post office has their contract, for example, and the newsagent— their contract, for example, and the newsagent stated that any shortfall within _ newsagent stated that any shortfall within the accounting procedures was to be met _ within the accounting procedures was to be met by themselves. i met a number— to be met by themselves. i met a number of— to be met by themselves. i met a number of people who are in that position —

number of people who are in that position. what compensation scheme, if any. _ position. what compensation scheme, if any, actually cover these people? i if any, actually cover these people? i have _ if any, actually cover these people? i have an _ if any, actually cover these people? i have an example of that myself, someone — i have an example of that myself, someone who— i have an example of that myself, someone who was _ i have an example of that myself, someone who was employed - i have an example of that myself, someone who was employed on . i have an example of that myself, . someone who was employed on that basis and _ someone who was employed on that basis and obligated _ someone who was employed on that basis and obligated to _ someone who was employed on that basis and obligated to pay— someone who was employed on that basis and obligated to pay the - basis and obligated to pay the shortfatts— basis and obligated to pay the shortfalls and _ basis and obligated to pay the shortfalls and the _ basis and obligated to pay the shortfalls and the scheme - basis and obligated to pay the shortfalls and the scheme has basis and obligated to pay the - shortfalls and the scheme has turned down the _ shortfalls and the scheme has turned down the application, _ shortfalls and the scheme has turned down the application, even _ shortfalls and the scheme has turned down the application, even though i shortfalls and the scheme has turned down the application, even though it| down the application, even though it is supported — down the application, even though it is supported by— down the application, even though it is supported by an _ down the application, even though it is supported by an authority- down the application, even though it is supported by an authority and - is supported by an authority and signed _ is supported by an authority and signed by— is supported by an authority and signed by the _ is supported by an authority and signed by the sub—postmaster. i is supported by an authority and . signed by the sub—postmaster. so again. _ signed by the sub—postmaster. so again. another— signed by the sub—postmaster. so again, another victim _ signed by the sub—postmaster. so again, another victim with- signed by the sub—postmaster. so again, another victim with no- again, another victim with no redress _ again, another victim with no redress if— again, another victim with no redress. , , again, another victim with no redress. , ., again, another victim with no redress. , . ., redress. if i may 'ust add on the family members — redress. if i mayjust add on the family members point _ redress. if i mayjust add on the family members point briefly, i redress. if i mayjust add on the. family members point briefly, we have got the same challenge there is absolute lack of clarity over family members, and that is a perfect example of something that we think needs to be approached from a different starting point. not a legalistic starting point will be have to find case laws and justify a third party claim, but from a fairness and common sense starting point. it fairness and common sense starting oint. . . fairness and common sense starting oint. , . , ., fairness and common sense starting oint. , . i. ., point. it is huge, and you would think the government _ point. it is huge, and you would think the government and -

point. it is huge, and you would - think the government and ministers woutd _ think the government and ministers would want to do a fair and decent 'ob would want to do a fair and decent job on— would want to do a fair and decent job on this — would want to do a fair and decent job on this and they will be aware of these — job on this and they will be aware of these cases. and job on this and they will be aware of these cases. and fundamentally, it is notjust — of these cases. and fundamentally, it is notjust a _ of these cases. and fundamentally, it is notjust a monetary _ of these cases. and fundamentally, it is notjust a monetary issue - it is notjust a monetary issue because the clients need to see that acknowledgement and recognition of that in the way the offer is formulated, ratherthan that in the way the offer is formulated, rather than i'm sorry there is no legal basis for this. fin there is no legal basis for this. on current pace, how long do you think it is going _ current pace, how long do you think it is going to— current pace, how long do you think it is going to take _ current pace, how long do you think it is going to take to— current pace, how long do you think it is going to take to see _ current pace, how long do you think it is going to take to see full- current pace, how long do you think it is going to take to see full and . it is going to take to see full and final redress _ it is going to take to see full and final redress for— it is going to take to see full and final redress for the _ it is going to take to see full and final redress for the victims? - final redress for the victims? unacceptabty_ final redress for the victims? unacceptably long _ final redress for the victims? unacceptably long for- final redress for the victims? unacceptably long for us - final redress for the victims? unacceptably long for us and j final redress for the victims? - unacceptably long for us and our clients _ unacceptably long for us and our clients and everybody else. i would say between and two years. one and two years? — say between and two years. one and two years? i— say between and two years. one and two years? i am _ say between and two years. one and two years? i am not _ say between and two years. one and two years? i am not going _ say between and two years. one and two years? i am not going to - two years? i am not going to disauree two years? i am not going to disagree with _ two years? i am not going to disagree with my _ two years? i am not going to disagree with my landed - two years? i am not going to i disagree with my landed friend. two years? i am not going to - disagree with my landed friend. it is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes— is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes to — is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes to the _ is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes to the house _ is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes to the house we - is wholly unacceptable. so when the bill comes to the house we are - is wholly unacceptable. so when the | bill comes to the house we are going to have _ bill comes to the house we are going

to have to— bill comes to the house we are going to have to amend _ bill comes to the house we are going to have to amend it— bill comes to the house we are going to have to amend it to _ bill comes to the house we are going to have to amend it to make - bill comes to the house we are going to have to amend it to make sure - to have to amend it to make sure there _ to have to amend it to make sure there are — to have to amend it to make sure there are some _ to have to amend it to make sure there are some hard, _ to have to amend it to make sure there are some hard, legally- to have to amend it to make sure i there are some hard, legally binding deadlines— there are some hard, legally binding deadlines for— there are some hard, legally binding deadlines for redress. _ there are some hard, legally binding deadlines for redress. yes, - there are some hard, legally binding deadlines for redress.— deadlines for redress. yes, but also this step change, _ deadlines for redress. yes, but also this step change, radical _ deadlines for redress. yes, but also this step change, radical change - deadlines for redress. yes, but also this step change, radical change of| this step change, radical change of the type _ this step change, radical change of the type was referring to before, to make _ the type was referring to before, to make the _ the type was referring to before, to make the current process, how many deadlines— make the current process, how many deadlines there are in place.- deadlines there are in place. around the fundamental _ deadlines there are in place. around the fundamental rethinking - deadlines there are in place. around the fundamental rethinking of- deadlines there are in place. around the fundamental rethinking of it - deadlines there are in place. around the fundamental rethinking of it as l the fundamental rethinking of it as well, it is fine to put a filing system in place, but if all that does is generate office on time but those offers are not good enough, it does not solve a problem. you those offers are not good enough, it does not solve a problem.— does not solve a problem. you have told us that — does not solve a problem. you have told us that there _ does not solve a problem. you have told us that there is _ does not solve a problem. you have told us that there is a _ does not solve a problem. you have told us that there is a strong - does not solve a problem. you have told us that there is a strong case . told us that there is a strong case that many— told us that there is a strong case that many of— told us that there is a strong case that many of the _ told us that there is a strong case that many of the cases _ told us that there is a strong case that many of the cases that - told us that there is a strong case that many of the cases that have i that many of the cases that have actually — that many of the cases that have actually been _ that many of the cases that have actually been settled _ that many of the cases that have actually been settled may- that many of the cases that have actually been settled may need i that many of the cases that have i actually been settled may need to that many of the cases that have - actually been settled may need to be reopened _ actually been settled may need to be reopened you — actually been settled may need to be reopened. you have _ actually been settled may need to be reopened. you have told _ actually been settled may need to be reopened. you have told us- actually been settled may need to be reopened. you have told us that - actually been settled may need to be i reopened. you have told us that many of the _ reopened. you have told us that many of the claims — reopened. you have told us that many of the claims that _ reopened. you have told us that many of the claims that you _ reopened. you have told us that many of the claims that you are _ reopened. you have told us that many of the claims that you are working - of the claims that you are working on are _ of the claims that you are working on are so— of the claims that you are working on are so problematic _ of the claims that you are working on are so problematic you - of the claims that you are working on are so problematic you can't i on are so problematic you can't accept — on are so problematic you can't accept them _ on are so problematic you can't accept them. you _ on are so problematic you can't accept them. you have - on are so problematic you can't accept them. you have told i on are so problematic you can't accept them. you have told us| on are so problematic you can't i accept them. you have told us that there _ accept them. you have told us that there are _ accept them. you have told us that there are significant _ accept them. you have told us that there are significant process- there are significant process detays. _ there are significant process delays. that— there are significant process delays, that you _ there are significant process delays, that you appear- there are significant process delays, that you appear to l there are significant process. delays, that you appear to be emptoying _ delays, that you appear to be employing three _ delays, that you appear to be employing three times - delays, that you appear to be employing three times morei delays, that you appear to be - employing three times more lawyers than the _ employing three times more lawyers than the government _ employing three times more lawyers than the government and _ employing three times more lawyers than the government and that - employing three times more lawyers than the government and that it i employing three times more lawyers than the government and that it is. than the government and that it is going _ than the government and that it is going to _

than the government and that it is going to take _ than the government and that it is going to take 1-2_ than the government and that it is going to take 1—2 years _ than the government and that it is going to take 1—2 years at - than the government and that it is going to take 1—2 years at the i going to take 1—2 years at the current— going to take 1—2 years at the current pace _ going to take 1—2 years at the current pace to _ going to take 1—2 years at the current pace to finally - going to take 1—2 years at the current pace to finally bring l current pace to finally bring justice _ current pace to finally bring justice. thank— current pace to finally bring justice. thank you - current pace to finally bring justice. thank you very i current pace to finally bring i justice. thank you very much current pace to finally bring - justice. thank you very much indeed for laying _ justice. thank you very much indeed for laying that — justice. thank you very much indeed for laying that out _ justice. thank you very much indeed for laying that out with _ justice. thank you very much indeed for laying that out with such - for laying that out with such ctarity — for laying that out with such clarity and _ for laying that out with such clarity and that _ for laying that out with such clarity and that concludes i for laying that out with such l clarity and that concludes this panet~ — clarity and that concludes this panel. order, _ clarity and that concludes this panel. order, order. - you've been watching two of the lawyers for the claimants in the post office scandal have been giving evidence to mp5 on both of their lawyers deal with former branch operators are one of the firms in the past has warned of their concerns that some may see time run out before a resolution is reached. james hartley told the mp5 that there was definitely problems with there was definitely problems with the process and timescale when it came to compensation and that they were seeing what they felt were not fair offers. it is not working for the claimants and is too legalistic. doctor neil hong chul —— hudgill said they needed things proved to

them and things were self—evident such as medical reports.