welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. last year, during a brief visit to belfast, presidentjoe biden hailed the transformative impact of peace in northern ireland. it had unleashed, he said, a churn of creativity and that surely struck a chord with my guest today, the actor ciaran hinds, who was nominated for an oscar in kenneth branagh's autobiographical movie about belfast, which is home city to both of those men. one generation on from the so—called troubles, northern ireland is seen as creative and cool, but have the wounds of the past really healed?

ciaran hinds, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. now you are a man of belfast, born and raised there, and i think, as ijust mentioned, it's fair to say there is a real creative buzz around belfast and northern ireland today. but when you were a youth there, growing up, was it a place that you felt, as a sort of creative soul that you needed to get out of? it wasn't a place that i felt i needed to get out of. i mean, i did eventually, but there was a reason for that was because my chosen profession turned out to be acting, and there were no theatre schools in ireland at that time. so i left the island for the first time, to go to london, to a theatre school, to train. but when i was growing up, it was different days.

i mean, we're talking about the �*50s into the �*60s, and there was a lot we didn't know about the world, and we only learnt about it by going down to the central library, and opening big books, and finding out that way. and in a way, i guess the world... we made our own worlds then, we didn't look out to the world, we made our own, between, i guess what we watched on television, in black and white, and just children's imaginative, inventive games, stories we'd heard. our childhood was, in a way, really innocent and very free. i mean, this was in the �*50s and �*60s. yeah. and interesting you say that, �*50s and earlier �*60s, when, of course, there was peace in northern ireland, and that relative peace, anyway... there were tensions, but there was relative peace. and then all of that changed in the very late �*60s. and we know this, not least from the film that you were involved with, with kenneth branagh, which so powerfully portrayed

that moment in, i think, 1969, when the communal sectarian tensions in northern ireland really spilled over. and it was, in a sense, the beginning of what became known as the era of the troubles. did that onset of real street violence encourage your feeling that it might be right to leave this place? no. at that stage, i was still at secondary school, at a grammar school, and i was 15, 16. and the truth is, not a lot happened in the north of ireland, where we came from. fashions, kind of global news always came to us kind of a long time after it had hit london or england. we were always kind of a sweep afterwards, ifound, and the idea that something was suddenly... ..in a way, not tearing the city apart — it was going to, or the northern part, but it was suddenly a huge

excitement, you know, for a 16, 15, 16—year—old boys, you suddenly go, "wow, the world's alive." it's alive. it's dangerous. it was petrol bombs on the streets. it was the british army then moving in. understood. it was frightening, was it not? it became very, very frightening, very dangerous, and very, very horrible — terrible. but what i'm trying to say is the innocence of 15—year—old, 16—year—old boys, they don't have the maturity or the understanding to realise what's going to happen, how terrible this is going to be, and how it will get thicker and deeper, and much more dangerous, and how it will... i mean, the communities were rent asunderfor 30 years. they were. but, at 15, you don't recognise that. but i'm also thinking, goodness,

late teens is the time in which many young men in northern ireland at that time were then pulled in to their hardline community activists who were going to persuade them to join the struggle. now, you were from the catholic side of belfast, and ijust wonder whether there was ever a moment during this onset of real sectarian violence, whether you ever came close to getting pulled into that? erm...| did, yeah. how? i was at university for a bit, in queen's, and there was all kinds of movements going on in queen's. but we have to differentiate, i really think, between what was happening and what kind of hardline republicanism was starting to happen and the idea of the movement of civil rights, 0ne...came from behind another and started to take over in the mainstream. but the basis of all the. . .what were they going to talk, challenging the state of northern ireland, was about gerrymandering and one man, one vote. we'd already seen what had happened in america, with martin luther king and the right for civil rights, basic civil rights, and it was —

this was in the early �*60s. and people started to march for civil rights based at the university, people's democracy, in �*68 — �*67, �*68. the idea that this is not an equal society in any way. i mean, it's very interesting, because if that was on the mainland, in great britain, they'd say, "this is ridiculous." but this was the system that had been set up, and basically was an abuse of democracy. as you say, there is a very clear distinction between the civil rights movement and then what became the provisional ira and an armed struggle, which was directed then at getting the british out of northern ireland, and in the long run, seeking unity... the unification of ireland. ..of the island. did you ever have contact with those groups known as the provisionals? no, ididn�*t. no, i didn't, i'm glad to say. i mean, there were movements in university, talking about how left—wing do you want to be, how radical, etc. but does that mean you would pick up a gun? you know, i'd always

drew the line there. that's just not my nature. thinking about your life after that, because, of course, as you said, you left northern ireland to go to drama school, and you've had a long and very varied career in many different parts of the world. but do you think that background of yours has given you a political outlook, a consciousness of social, economicjustice and the need to be engaged and involved? yes, that was part of my childhood. but as i tell you, stephen, we were still very naive back then, when this was all happening. so this recognition of what was going on almost happened after i'd left, and i started to look with eyes from outside, not from inside, and i started to see the difference... ..a very simple parallel would be when i left, we could feel the oppression of the british army in the north of ireland, when i left, because militarily, there were the tanks, what they call the pig saracen, as an army all over belfast.

and i just saw these big men in, you know, uniform and weapons, and i come back, coming backwards and forwards, but suddenly it hit me, probably towards the end of the �*70s, when i was now 26, 27, was, i was looking at 18—year—olds in these uniforms. i was not looking at, when i was18, 19, looking at these big, you know, men, dangerous fellows looking at me. i'm now looking at these young boys, 18—year—olds in the garb. and that's quite a wake—up call as well. you've been back to northern ireland to work, on a number of occasions, but what i was struck by was you going back, with all of the cast, to what was a pretty special red carpet premiere, in northern ireland, of the movie, and of course most of the audience would be belfast people looking and wanting to know whether you had captured the real essence of their city at that particular time.

what kind of reaction did you get? well, i rememberjust before we were going to be introduced, to this very, very full house of 2,500 people, with this big event of bringing belfast to belfast. and i was with jamie dornan, and we were just sitting, and we were both a bit nervous, not that we didn't believe that kenneth had made a beautiful film about, about the world then. but that feeling that this could go either way. "how dare you presume to understand the complexities of that time "and from whose perspective, and what agenda "are you going to take?" and in the heart of it, i was saying tojamie, i said, "the truth, people will have different views on this "film, especially from the north, theyjust will. "but we are looking at it through the eyes "of a nine—year—old boy. "and if people cannot divorce their own agendas, "their own driven attitudes to what they believe is right "and the other wrong, if they cannotjust go back

"into themselves and the innocence, and look through the eyes "of a nine—year—old, the wonder of the world, "and certainly how "of a nine—year—old, the wonder of the world, and certainly how "that world has changed and turned and becomes desperate "and dangerous, i mean, what does that say for us as human beings? "no matter where you come from." and so we went out, still rather trepidatious. and there was this — at the end of it, there were a few naysayers, because, of course, begrudgery is everywhere. but at the same time, there was this great, beautiful feeling in the house that actually this was done with love. this was done with love. at the time, it was difficult, but that it was done, and through a memory and a deep memory that ken branagh always carried with him. and you do too, i dare say. ido, yeah. just a final question about northern ireland before we move on to lots else in your life and career. butjoe biden, last year, went back to belfast to mark the 25th anniversary

of the good friday agreement, and he talked about the transformative progress, and he did make a point about young people and how much creativity there is in northern ireland today. and yet if you actually look at that place, it is still divided, deeply divided, culturally, along sectarian lines. most kids in northern ireland still go to religion—based schools. if you walk around neighbourhoods, you still see the walls dividing the protestant and catholic communities. you still see the flags, the marches, the graffiti, which are all symbols of division. do you think your homeland has truly transformed or not? i think it's going to take more time, to be very honest, and i get very disappointed. my sister's always — i've always stayed there and worked to progress people, to make things reach out, and make and change and open to the next generation. so your sister's stayed? yeah. and you are the only one who... yeah. and, erm... ..sometimes i get a little

depressed, but i shouldn't be, because people are there on the ground working, working, trying to make this happen. and as we know through history, it doesn't take that many belligerents to hold up process. so you say we're trying to make it happen, and i guess you mean, you know... ..a peaceful community... in the north of ireland, yes. because you also, in a political sense, believe that the destiny of northern ireland is one day to be unified with the republic, to be one united ireland. do i believe in it? to me, and quite honestly, whether it happens or not is neither here nor there to me, because i believe more so the way my feet dance, the music i listen to, is kind of irish. but that doesn't say that i don't have a great love and affection for a lot of english or british things. one does not dissociate the other, and that's part of the problem. we have a lot of people who say, like, "that's the way we are. "that's wrong." it's just — it's too embedded, and the more progressive politics that we need in the north of ireland, we really need it. that's why i was very disappointed

about the democratic unionist party, you know. of course, we're celebrating today because they finally said after two years, "we will try and move forward." but, you know, of any culture anywhere, when you face the people who keep saying, "no, never, notan inch, "surrender, i'll take the ball, we're going home. "we're not playing, because..." we are not going anywhere, and until people learn to reach out and have the discussions, the debates, the arguments, unless you sit around the table, and for the better, for the betterment of the generations to come, that's what we're talking about, the betterment of generations to come. and i think this younger generation, they're not interested so much in orange or green, or which side or... this is dyed in the wool, people would look, you know, other perspectives from over the world, they're looking at what is the problem over there. when they look at the other horrors in the world, greater horrors, what is this problem that they can't live together? and if you want to divide it simplistically along catholic, protestant, orange, green, but there's a deeper thing, and i think it's about having humanist values, genuinely humanist values.

finding the humanity. either side and each part, seeing the difficulties, and all that, and reaching out. because if you don't — i mean, the integrated education fund, the ief, is very, very important to the future of the north. it's about integrated education. now, i'm going to take you away from northern ireland now. 0k. i'm going to ask you to reflect on a very long and varied career. you've had formal training at rada, one of the great drama schools. i think you spent some time at the royal shakespeare company. you've spent a lot of time onstage. but you also, in the course of your career, have been connected, in different ways, to some of the biggest box office franchises of recent times, from game of thrones to, i think, a brief appearance in harry potter, all sorts of other experiences that have taken you to hollywood and elsewhere. in the end, what has given you the greatest satisfaction? is it connecting with a vast audience, as you sometimes have, or is it in the more intimate, creative challenge that maybe didn't reach so many people?

i think to me, the work that we do as actors, which is part of the storytelling and where we have to go in it, i think there's nothing that moves you more profoundly... ..than the sound of absolute silence in a theatre... ..when, i don't know, it could be 500, it could be 300, could be 900 people, who all come in singularly or in couples. and at that moment, i'm live, it's onstage and the spell has been woven somehow. you've been taken to another place, another time, but you're in a theatre. so it's not really — you know it's fabricated, but because of...whatever has gone on there, you sometimes find an audience all breathing with the one breath. it's such an interesting reflection, but is it getting harder to find that silence, that intensity?

we've had actors sounding off about audiences which bring with them a short attention span, some of them literally bring with them their smartphones and start playing with them. others are described as tourists, who aren't really bothered about the story they're watching unfold. do you, as an actor, feel it's harder now to find the audience that's prepared to give itself to you? i can honestly say, in the last four or five or six theatre projects i've been involved in, that hasn't really been an issue. now, i haven't been in theatre since covid arrived, so that's three years. and maybe there's something else in the air that has brought people back to the theatre because it's very important to get people back to the theatre, because theatre, certainly in london and everywhere, was decimated by it. so the idea's to get people back in, but i don't know what maybe has changed for all these people using all the social media in the absence of live connections with people, understanding that there is a point

where you have to be quiet, listen, in a conversation, or if everybody�*s just bouncing off all the time with the machines, maybe that's affected a way of when you go out, your whole narrative�*s about somehow self—invested and not looking outwards. i guess one of the issues you have to face as an actor is that the money, and the big money, is really in movies, in the sort of big series the platforms now launch and plough vast amounts of money into. does that worry you, that that's going to take you in a direction that isn't necessarily the most creative? no. i can honestly say i have done some jobs for a pay cheque. but you haven't. .. but mostly the part. yeah. can you think of one, that you can tell me about? no, i couldn't tell you about it. just like, "what am i doing here?" i was a gun for hire in a way, you know, a gun for hire. you go, you do your best,

do your work, but somehow what is missing is the kernel of deep interest and wondering, what are we going to do? what are we — how are we going to make this? but that hasn't happened often to me, i have to say. i've been very fortunate, and somehow wondered why i got to work with some extraordinary people. erm... and therefore, maybe the choices have been made for me, or made by me, i've always been vastly interested in the projects i do. do you worry about the amount of agency actors have? you know, we recently had the strike in the united states where actors, as well as screenwriters, were expressing deep concern, for a start about the way artificial intelligence may affect the way your performances are used, and you, perhaps, ciaran hinds, could be created digitally, and use your voice or your appearance. that might be a good thing! well, would it? it would be a good thing for... stay in bed. well...

rambling somewhere in some gorgeous scenery. meanwhile, i'm working at the same time. there's also — i know you're kidding, but there was also an issue that actors expressed that they don't get fair pay, for example, for repeats, for what they call residuals in the united states, and i just wonder whether you think actors need... ..well, the example was the strike, to act collectively, to safeguard this precarious profession of yours. yes, ithink — i mean, what was very interesting was how collective it was, that strike, and the issues, i guess... did it cost you money? me personally? yes. no, because, i — it was coincidentally... ..i had decided to take some time out. because i had been going from pillar to post, working and doing stuff, and ijust realised, "i'm a bit tired actually." you know, i hit 70, i'm going, like...

and that idea, you're fooling yourself you're young because you keep going and suddenly you stop for a moment, and you go like, "oh, maybe a bit of a break "would be in order." but interestingly, your daughter aoife is also a successful actor. i just wonder whether there was any ever a point when you — and your wife, too, is an actor, whether you and her mum, yourwife... helene. ..said to aoife, "this isn't necessarily a wise "career choice of yours." well, we did say that at the very beginning anyway, as indeed my parents had said it to me. they said, you know, this... i mean, when i started off, there was some of — the facts were there was 86% unemployment, at any given time, in the acting industry. but in the acting industry then, we were theatre people, we weren't film, television, streaming services, we were theatre actors. and you know, as time moves, and we try and keep up with it, basically, we develop our skills to work in different medium, but we're not — we weren't initially trained the way the younger generation are now. i think they're well able for it.

i would say, and quite honestly, if i was — with my attitude to my work and stuff, if i was to have a go again today, i don't know if i'd be able to hack it. it's a different world. there's one thing i bet you were never trained for at drama school, and that is performing an intimate, let's be more blunt, a sex scene with your own wife, because that's what you recently did on telly, in a series, the dry, where you were a sort of ageing, disappointed bloke, who had an affair, and the actor playing the woman you had the affair with was your actual wife. and i think i read somewhere that you actually had an intimacy coach for those scenes, which struck me as kind of weird, given that you and your wife have been together for an awful long time. but we've been needing lessons for a very long time, stephen. he chuckles certainly i did. no, it was kind of ludicrous and funny, and i talked to the director paddy breathnach, who's making this thing, and i said "this scene that has been written, "that nancy has written, it's shocking, it's ridiculous, "and i don't think it's... "..it�*s true to what would happen."

he said, "yeah, i know, "but it's really about the effect "that happens on your daughter who sees it. "it's not about whether you, at your age, would be caught "cavorting alfresco behind some bins up an alleyway." and i said, "yeah, but you wouldn't." but anyway, push comes to shove, paddy would ask me on a regular basis, every couple of days, "how are you about that scene?" and i said, "well, now that you've cast helene, my lovely wife, we can "have a laugh about it anyway." so we go and do it, and we did have an intimacy coordinator, and she... paddy said, "well, do you want to talk to her?" i said, "of course we'll say hello, but i think we'll be ok." and it turned out that she had worked with our daughter on normal people. she'd basically sexed up the whole family, you know. she did the lot of us. we're almost out of time, butjust on a semi—serious note about the same thing. do you think values have changed, both in terms of the way the industry now portrays sex and violence? i just wonder whether you

see changing values. yeah. yeah, ido. but whose values are they? i mean, i'm not going to be here to say the values of people should be, or whatever they are. the telling of stories can be done in many ways. it can be blunt, it can be brutal, it can be subtle, it can be... you can hint at it, it can be imaginative. itjust depends on the tellers of those stories, and the idea of breaking down barriers and pushing more sex, more violence doesn't particularly appeal to me, because either — well, how does it progress the story or how does it shine light on? of course it's part of life, and, yes, it should be shown, but it's the kind of pushing it towards the element, which is again about selling, and making, you know, hits on, whatever you call them, bing, bing, bongs on the internet. but in short, you will continue telling stories. that is pretty clear to me. i think i'll certainly keep reading them, and i hope to be

involved in telling them. yeah, hopefully. yes, i would. yeah. ciaran hinds, it's been an absolute pleasure. thanks for being on hardtalk. thank you very much, steve. pleasure. thank you. hello. let's take a brief look now at the weather for the week ahead. it was a very pretty start to the day on tuesday, lots of red sky across england and wales, as captured by our weather watchers here. and as the old adage goes, it came ahead of a weather front that brought us thickening cloud and some outbreaks of rain. and the generally unsettled theme

is just set to continue this week. it'll be wet and windy at times, but it won't be raining all the time. very changeable, too, in terms of temperature with some wintry showers possible as we head into the first day of the meteorological spring. but overnight on tuesday into wednesday, our cold front clears the south—east of england. another warm front approaches the north and the west, so here cloudier, breezier, milder, but a touch of frost possible for england and wales. then rain starts to push eastwards as we head throughout the day. heavier downpours of rain across parts of north—west england, the welsh mountains in particular, and possibly south—west england, too, but largely dry for much of the day further east. if we do see any late brightness for northern ireland, we could see highs of 13 or 1a celsius along with that milder south—westerly wind. you can see the milder air, marked on the air—mass chart in yellow, being swept away through thursday with a couple of cold fronts. so things are going to be turning colderfrom the west, and the snow levels will drop. but some early rain, i think, across much of central southern england.

flood warnings in force here. the ground is already saturated. brighter skies behind, severe gales for north—western scotland. and snow levels will be dropping, so some wintry showers across the highlands, possibly over the higher ground of northern ireland and into the pennines. and things don't improve at all as we head through friday. in fact, for the first day of the meteorological spring, low pressure will be very much dominating. we're expecting some wintry showers, the snow levels dropping to 200 to 300 metres across the southern uplands, the pennines, across the higher ground of northern ireland and the welsh mountains, so do expect to see some wintriness here. longer spells of rain towards the east coast, and here some brisk, gusty winds always likely to be blowing. low pressure very close by. and it's going nowhere through the weekend. it's blocked by this large area of high pressure out towards the east. so the low pressure will send all these showers, longer spells of rain swirling round. it's difficult to put too much detail on it at this stage. it won't be raining all the time. some of the showers likely to turn wintry over the higher ground. there'll also be spells of sunshine.

temperatures generally between seven and ten degrees celsius, a little below the seasonal average. and of course there will be some added wind chill. but the winds will continue to lighten, i think, for many through sunday, with the low pressure gradually migrating a little further westwards. still some showers around — not everywhere, but we're expecting longer spells of rain across the north of scotland for a time. again, some of those showers turning wintry over the higher ground, also across the welsh mountains. but i think a lot of dry weather, particularly for southern and eastern areas of england. temperatures on a par with saturday's, but not quite so much added wind chill. now, as we look a bit further ahead, into the start of next week, while i think monday and tuesday are again looking unsettled, with low pressure very much dominant, high pressure will start to build in from scandinavia, and that's going to block these weather fronts further out towards the west. things will slowly turn a little more settled. for our capital cities into the start of next week, while we could see more showers at times, i think many places will turn drier

and temperatures will start to rise, so it will feel a bit more springlike. bye— bye.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines. joe biden faces a test of his support among arab—americans, in michigan's presidential primary.

prince william pulls out of a memorial service for his godfather at the last minute due to a "personal matter". and tiktok starts removing songs — after the world s biggest record label withdrew permission for them to be used. we start this hour in the us state of michigan where polls will soon close in the presidential primaries. there's no mystery about the winners — joe biden and donald trump will be the leading democrat and republican respectively. but the scale of mr biden�*s win is being closely watched. michigan has a high proportion of arab, americans who disapprove of the way he's handling the situation in gaza. and in a key swing state, that could be significant. our north america editor, sarah smith, is in detroit.

let me hear you say i'm voting uncommitted.