come the election, it economically, come the election, it is about_ economically, come the election, it is about people —— how people feel about_ is about people —— how people feel about their— is about people —— how people feel about their economic prospects given inflation _ about their economic prospects given inflation and mortgages and plenty else besides. labour now feel more confident, _ else besides. labour now feel more confident, economically, with polls suggest _ confident, economically, with polls suggest they are treated more credibly— suggest they are treated more credibly economically and the conservatives have a difficult economic picture to wrestle with. today— economic picture to wrestle with. today has— economic picture to wrestle with. today has been an insight into the cruciat— today has been an insight into the crucial battleground, come the election— crucial battleground, come the election campaign, whenever it comes — election campaign, whenever it comes. , . ~ , ., comes. indeed, chris, thank you, chris mason _ comes. indeed, chris, thank you, chris mason at _ comes. indeed, chris, thank you, chris mason at westminster - comes. indeed, chris, thank you, chris mason at westminster and l chris mason at westminster and faisal islam reporting for us. time for a look at the weather. and sarah has more by the river tyne.

today's budget might have left you with a bit more money in your pocket but some of the public services you rely on will face big spending cuts. so is it a vote winner? mr chancellor of the exchequer. cheering it was the last spring budget before the next

election. tonight — we'll interrogate whyjeremy hunt made the announcements he did. and interrrogate one of his treasury ministers. overall, the tax burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is still too high, overall. absolutely. and it's going up? we'll also talk to labour's campaign chief. we'll talk live to representatives of business and public sector workers and our politics panel is here to help us decode it all and tell us when we might be going to the polls. today's was a budget that was as much about what comes next as about what comes now. there's another 2p cut in national insurance that will kick in soon but there's also the growing realisation that whoever wins the next election, they will face a daunting choice: either oversee significant cuts in public spending when many feel services are already on their knees or put up taxes or change

the rules on borrowing, which both main parties have discounted. in terms of who the next government will be, the current one is hoping that the promise of some lower taxes will trump the reality of the average household set to be worse off when they go to the polls than they were at the 2019 election. we'll do the economics with ben in a moment, first nick with the politics. well, vic: this wasn't any old budget. it was, as one of the chancellor's closest allies told me, a highly political budget designed to establish the framework of the general election. and if you are a conservative government with your back against the wall — ie successive opinion polls suggesting an uncomfortable encounter with the electorate looming, it's time to go back to first principles. so today shows the tories heading up for a classic tax and spend election campaign in which they will say: —

conservatives cut taxes — labour spends taxes. and so we had that 2p cut in national insurance contributions. but on top of that a signal from the chancellor that he would like eventually to scrap that tax and rely on income tax as the only tax on income. this is what the chancellor had to say. because conservatives believe that making work pay is of the most fundamental importance, because we believe that the double taxation of work is unfair, our long—term ambition is to end this unfairness. when it is responsible, when it can be achieved without increasing borrowing, when it can be delivered without compromising high—quality public services, we will continue to cut national insurance, as we have done today, so we truly make work pay. i bumped into a cabinet minister after the statement and they said they liked how the chancellor has set out a path to scrap national insurance contributions but it's important to say, a heavy caveat from jeremy hunt that it will take some time to realise that ambition. what are labour saying? supreme caution from labour — walking carefully around

the inevitable traps [aid for them. so keir starmer mainly launched an assault on the government's record. he didn't go into much detail on the budget other than to castigate the government for a "desperate move" in accepting labour's policy of scrapping non dom status. and he said labour would accept the national insurance tax cut. keir starmer can see the tax and spend election coming so he is heading that one off at the pass and ended on this challenge. britain deserves a government ready to take tough decisions, give our public services and immediate cash injection, stick to fiscal rules without complaint, fight for the living standards of working people and deliver a sustainable plan for growth. so, we say to the chancellor and prime minister, it's time to break the habit of ia years. stop the dithering, stop the delay, stop the uncertainty and confirm may the 2nd as the date of the next general election. because britain deserves better and labour are ready.

naturally there was a lot of praise from the government on its side of the house but some signs of unease on the tory right, with suella braverman asking some pointed questions. will they turn the tide and send a message to the british taxpayer that we can with the conservatives, are of the party of low tax and on their side? those are the real questions we need to ask ourselves, honestly and with dispassionate fairness because if we are not honest with ourselves, we have no one else to blame if we hand the keys of power to the labour party. tell us what the government wants us to talk about and what they don't want to talk about. well, two things the government is shouting about — inflation is forecast to be down. growth forecast to be up. and three things greeted with a shuffling of feet — the tax burden is lower than it would have been had there not been those tax cuts — but still overall the highest

burden since1948. government debt will be higher at the end of the five—year forecast than it is today. but no breaking of the debt rule because it falls by a tiny amount in the final year. and no spending review until after the general election. and so the next government will have to explain how the 1% real terms allocated increase in departmental spending from 2025—26 will work out. boosts to area like the nhs will mean cuts elsewhere. thank you. now here's our economics editor ben chu with his assessment who gains most from the chancellor's tax cuts and some of the other measures he announced, like extending council grants to struggling hosueholds, and where they all leave us. you've heard about the high politics of this budget but we want to take a look at what it means and doesn't mean for households and your living standards. have we, as the chancellor put it, turned a corner? one positive is that inflation

is now forecast by the office for budget responsibility to come down a bit more rapidly than it projected at the time of the autumn statement. look how the pink line, the latest projection, is lower than the blue line, the previous one. of course we had that 2p cut in employees's national insurance which will put more money in the pockets of workers. as this from the ippr think tank shows, the bulk of the cash gains from that tax cut, 46% will go to the wealthiest fifth of households, shown in green. the second richest fifth, shown in red get around a quarter of the total benefit. the poorest fifth get just 3%, mainly because those households are much less likely to have someone in work. people on middle incomes will also benefit from the raising of the threshold for the withdrawal of child benefit. for the least well off the chancellor did announce a six—month extension of the household support fund grants to struggling households administered by councils. though poverty campaigners argue it wasn't enough.

by only extending it for six months he has given no certainty whatsoever to local authorities to be able to strategically plan to be able to respond to the need that they see in their local areas. what we should have seen today was the household support fund becoming a permanent fixture that then becomes the heart of a system that enables people to get back on their feet when they hit a setback and get the support they need to move on with their lives. what about the overall picture on household incomes? this shows real household disposable incomes per person. there was a steep drop in 2022—23, the largest since records began, and this had been expected to continue this year and next. but now, look at this. it starts growing, it gets back to its pre—pandemic peak, two years earlier than previously projected. and the obr attributes this to the lower inflation and tax cuts. but on average, households still look set to be worse off at the time of the coming election

than they were at the last one. and we need to remember there's more to living standards than incomes. people use public services too. the chancellor has decided to pencil in real terms growth ofjust i% in public service spending after 2025. if you allow for committed growth in nhs and defence spending etc this is what's left for every other area, from local government to the police the courts and the environment. a 2.3% fall in annual spending. so the overall picture for living standards, it's a bit more positive but for many people it certainly won't feel like a corner has been turned in their personal finances. and all the more so when it comes to the public services on which they rely. a couple of hours after the budget this afternoon i spoke to treasury minster gareth davies. i asked him why the chancellor said today that we were �*back on the path to lower taxes'. well, we are in the sense that we

are cutting tax today for 29 million people which is what we did in the autumn statement. if you take the two fiscal events together the average worker will see about £900 in their pay package extra. but we are quite clear that taxes are still too high. they've risen over the last few years because our debt has risen. we want to get inflation and the debt down and to do that you have to make difficult decisions on tax. now we're in a position where inflation has gone from 11, to li%, so we are turning a corner which allows us to start cutting taxes and that's what we are doing today. haifa that's what we are doing today. how are we turning _ that's what we are doing today. how are we turning a _ that's what we are doing today. how are we turning a corner when we are in recession and the tax burden, despite what you have done, is continuing to rise? the trajectory is up. continuing to rise? the tra'ectory is u. ~ continuing to rise? the tra'ectory isu, , continuing to rise? the tra'ectory isu. , ., is up. we absolutely accept that taxes are still _ is up. we absolutely accept that taxes are still too _ is up. we absolutely accept that taxes are still too high. - is up. we absolutely accept that taxes are still too high. it's - is up. we absolutely accept that taxes are still too high. it's not| taxes are still too high. it's not “ust that taxes are still too high. it's not just that they _ taxes are still too high. it's not just that they are _ taxes are still too high. it's not just that they are too _ taxes are still too high. it's not just that they are too high, - taxes are still too high. it's not| just that they are too high, they are set to rise into the next

parliament until 2028—29. when jeremy hunt says that keeping taxes down matters to conservatives, it sounds like you are gas lighting the british people. hat sounds like you are gas lighting the british petiole-— british people. not at all, we are focusin: british people. not at all, we are focusing tax _ british people. not at all, we are focusing tax cuts _ british people. not at all, we are focusing tax cuts on _ british people. not at all, we are focusing tax cuts on something l british people. not at all, we are l focusing tax cuts on something we hope will drive growth, which is people in work. it sends a clear message today, as it did in the autumn statement, that of all the taxes we could cut, we focused on the tax which workers pay. you are aaivin the tax which workers pay. you are giving back — the tax which workers pay. you are giving back some _ the tax which workers pay. you are giving back some employees - the tax which workers pay. you are giving back some employees a - the tax which workers pay. you are giving back some employees a bit. the tax which workers pay. you are l giving back some employees a bit of their money but overall, the tax burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is still _ burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is still too _ burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is still too high _ burden is going up. correct? the tax burden is still too high overall, - burden is still too high overall, absolutely. burden is still too high overall, absolutely-— burden is still too high overall, . absolutely._ the absolutely. and it's going up? the obr have been _ absolutely. and it's going up? the obr have been clear— absolutely. and it's going up? the obr have been clear that - absolutely. and it's going up? the obr have been clear that the - absolutely. and it's going up? the| obr have been clear that the fiscal measures that have taken place today and previously last year will reduce the tax burden by i think 0.6%. h0. the tax burden by i think 0.6%. no, no, no. the tax burden by i think 0.6%. no, no. n0- i'm — the tax burden by i think 0.6%. no, no. n0- i'm sorry— the tax burden by i think 0.6%. no, no, no. i'm sorry to _ the tax burden by i think 0.6%. no, no, no. i'm sorry to stop you. i looked at the graphs. i've got the figures here. the tax burden today

is 36.1% of gdp and it's going to go up is 36.1% of gdp and it's going to go up to 37.1% by 2028—29, the highest since the second world war. i completely understand. since the second world war. i completely understand. do i since the second world war. i l completely understand. do you since the second world war. i - completely understand. do you accept the oint? completely understand. do you accept the point? the — completely understand. do you accept the point? the overall— completely understand. do you accept the point? the overall tax _ completely understand. do you accept the point? the overall tax burden - completely understand. do you accept the point? the overall tax burden is i the point? the overall tax burden is hirh the point? the overall tax burden is hiuh and it the point? the overall tax burden is high and it has— the point? the overall tax burden is high and it has been _ the point? the overall tax burden is high and it has been increasing. - high and it has been increasing. completely accept that. bind high and it has been increasing. completely accept that. and will continue to? _ completely accept that. and will continue to? the _ completely accept that. and will continue to? the measures - completely accept that. and will continue to? the measures we | completely accept that. and will - continue to? the measures we have taken will make _ continue to? the measures we have taken will make it _ continue to? the measures we have taken will make it less _ continue to? the measures we have taken will make it less and - continue to? the measures we have taken will make it less and it - continue to? the measures we have taken will make it less and it would | taken will make it less and it would have been otherwise by 0.6%, the obr said. 50 have been otherwise by 0.6%, the obr said. �* . have been otherwise by 0.6%, the obr said, f ., have been otherwise by 0.6%, the obr said. �*, ., ., ., . said. so it's not going down? we have been _ said. so it's not going down? we have been clear _ said. so it's not going down? we have been clear today _ said. so it's not going down? we have been clear today that - said. so it's not going down? we have been clear today that when | said. so it's not going down? we i have been clear today that when we are able to do so we will cut taxes to get that down.— are able to do so we will cut taxes to get that down. we've had to make some difficult — to get that down. we've had to make some difficult decisions _ to get that down. we've had to make some difficult decisions in _ to get that down. we've had to make some difficult decisions in the - some difficult decisions in the budget where some taxes are rising, right, and so we are very clear that when we can cut taxes we will do so and when we can cut those taxes it will be for the workers. the and when we can cut those taxes it will be for the workers.— will be for the workers. the cuts in national insurance _ will be for the workers. the cuts in national insurance rely _ will be for the workers. the cuts in national insurance rely in - will be for the workers. the cuts in national insurance rely in part - national insurance rely in part on keeping your pencilled in cuts,

spending cuts, after the next election. unprotected departments like the courts, transport, prisons, the police, facing cuts of 2.3%, according to the obr, each year, over the next five years. that's billions and billions of pounds worth. tell people where you're going to cut. irate worth. tell people where you're going to cut-— going to cut. we set out departmental— going to cut. we set out departmental spending l going to cut. we set out. departmental spending in going to cut. we set out - departmental spending in the spending review which will happen after the election, next year. you can't tell people _ after the election, next year. you can't tell people before the election where you are going to make cuts? ~ . .., election where you are going to make cuts? . . .. �* , cuts? what we can tell the british ublic, cuts? what we can tell the british public. and _ cuts? what we can tell the british public, and the _ cuts? what we can tell the british public, and the obr _ cuts? what we can tell the british public, and the obr have - cuts? what we can tell the british public, and the obr have said - cuts? what we can tell the british| public, and the obr have said that spending will increase on total departmental spending by i% over the next parliament, every year. flat departmental spending by 1% over the next parliament, every year.— next parliament, every year. not for the unprotected _ next parliament, every year. not for the unprotected departments. - the unprotected departments. spending will increase over the next parliament by some £86 billion across all departments. we will set out after the election which departments get more in terms of spending. but the process is still

being worked on because the other thing the chancellor announced today was a significant package, a programme of productivity improvements. if we improve productivity by some 5% that will result in £20 billion of productivity gains. good public services isn'tjust about how much money we give them. it is services isn'tjust about how much money we give them.— services isn'tjust about how much money we give them. it is what you do with the — money we give them. it is what you do with the money _ money we give them. it is what you do with the money but _ money we give them. it is what you do with the money but i'm - money we give them. it is what you do with the money but i'm asking . do with the money but i'm asking about cuts. you told me you can't tell voters where the cuts are coming so how worried should voters be that your current spending plans require sharp cuts to some public services after the election? we aren't services after the election? , aren't cutting spending. this is really important. we aren't cutting spending on public services. it's going to increase. it spending on public services. it's going to increase.— going to increase. it will be less than 1% a going to increase. it will be less than 196 a year _ going to increase. it will be less than 1% a year for _ going to increase. it will be less than 1% a year for those - going to increase. it will be less - than 1% a year for those unprotected than i% a year for those unprotected departments. than 1% a year for those unprotected departments-— than 1% a year for those unprotected de artments. , ., departments. some may need it more than others and _ departments. some may need it more than others and they _ departments. some may need it more than others and they will— departments. some may need it more than others and they will be _ than others and they will be productivity gains to be had. you ho e. productivity gains to be had. you hope- taking _ productivity gains to be had. you hope. taking the _ productivity gains to be had. you hope. taking the nhs, _ productivity gains to be had. you hope. taking the nhs, we - productivity gains to be had. you - hope. taking the nhs, we announced £2.5 billion hope. taking the nhs, we announced 9-5 billion in — hope. taking the nhs, we announced £2.5 billion in day-to-day _ hope. taking the nhs, we announced £2.5 billion in day-to-day spending i £2.5 billion in day—to—day spending extra for the nhs —— two 5p. this is

on the back of record funding, as i hope your viewers appreciate. we have announced a 3.4 billion package for the nhs specifically so that they can deliver productivity gains. where previous conservative chancellors in the last decade and a half have said we are going to improve productivity, and have failed, you're saying this will be different? we saw productivity in the public sector go up, it went up by 0.7%, in terms of public sector productivity. you keep saying labour doesn't have alan but they must have because you have just nicked the non—dom policy. it's a predictable charge, we have said those with the broadest shoulders should pay a bit more. you keep saying — shoulders should pay a bit more. you keep saying labour doesn't have a

plan and you have stolen some of their plans so you can't have it both ways. their plans so you can't have it both ways-— their plans so you can't have it both wa s. , . ., ., , both ways. their plan was to “ust abolish the fi both ways. their plan was to “ust abolish the non-dom * both ways. their plan was to “ust abolish the non-dom regimeh both ways. their plan was to just l abolish the non-dom regime which abolish the non—dom regime which would have hurt the exchequer and our investment. we have redesigned the system system, we agree we should abolish non—doms but we agree it should be replaced by a residency regime. it's a fundamental difference.— regime. it's a fundamental difference. . ,, ., . ,, ., difference. thank you for talking to newsniaht. difference. thank you for talking to newsnight. thank— difference. thank you for talking to newsnight. thank youism - difference. thank you for talking to newsnight. thank youism to - difference. thank you for talking to newsnight. thank youism to that i thank you for talking to newsnight. thank youism to that labour's campaign chief is pat mcfadden. i asked him why labour was supporting today's tax cuts, when that implies big spending cuts in some areas after the election. well, you say tax cuts but the tax burden is actually increasing for people, because you can'tjust think about the measures that have been announced today, but the measures in recent years, and when you put all of those together, you're still on a trajectory for the highest tax burden in living memory, and for a typical household, increasing of about £900 a year, and we have said consistently, going back to when the tories first

started messing about with national insurance, about two or three years ago, that we didn't want to increase taxes on working people, and we've stuck to that. so you support the tax cuts today, you support the national insurance cuts today. they will lead to big spending cuts after the next election, how can you support that? look, we don't want to go into the election promising to increase the tax burden for working people, because it is going up already in terms of the... i understand that, and i have talked to the conservatives about that. i am asking you, if you were to win the next election it will mean big spending cuts because of your support for the budget today. no, if there is a difficult economic environment after the election, that will be because of 14 years of low growth, declining income per head for people. that is reality. it will mean big spending cuts, and i am asking you, and you haven't been able to answer me yet, why

are you supporting big spending cuts after the next election? we have got the declining gdp per head at the fastest rate since the 1950s. that is not what i was asking. we are conscious of the tax burden on working people. now when it comes to public spending, of course we want to see investment in public services. why are you supporting big spending cuts then? that will have to come through better economic growth for the country, because the debate that we are having right now, and the debate around the budget which is around this notion of headroom and tax measures is too small for the challenges facing the united kingdom. we are going to have to get better economic growth to generate the wealth needed for the public services that make the good society, and that is why... and that is not going to come in two months, three months, four months, six months, maybe not even the first 12 months. essentially you would be supporting austerity 2.0. no, we are not supporting austerity, we want to see investment in public services, but it has to come

through economic growth. i understand that. where you're correct is to say this isn't quick, and that is why we have said that the economic inheritance at the coming election will be the most difficult that any party has inherited for a long, long time. my colleague, the shadow chancellor rachel reeves, made that clear last week, and it is the truth, and we want to be candid with the british people about that, and that is the right thing to do. you — do you think the public want tax cuts right now? look, i think people are feeling the pinch. i don't, to be honest, hold great store by the polls where people say we prefer this or that. you don't? because i've seen them for decades. no. you probably have something there you might want to read out, but i have seen them for decades and i don't think it is right to go into the election, promising to increase taxes for people, and that's why

we're not going to do it. ok, but the implication is then you are supporting spending cuts. i know you won't acknowledge it, but that is the case. we support investment in public services. that comes through better economic growth, and that is why growth is at the heart of our plan. is there anything in today's budget that you do oppose? on specific measures? well, look, one of the things that was striking, not opposing, but was the tories taking our non—dom plan. you support that? that was your plan, they have taken it, of course you are going to support that, but the question was is there anything you oppose? not on the specific measures of the budget, but what i felt was missing was a bigger discussion about economic growth. the chancellor actually stood up and said that he had produced 110 growth measures last november. what has been the result of it? we are actually in recession. the debate around the budgeting is too small. the notion that the economic future of the country, every fiscal event, has to revolve round guessing what the headroom is from the obr in five years' time, and then making a tax announcement based on that, and that is the beginning and the end

of the country's economic debate. it is too small for the challenges that we face, and that is why you can'tjust tax your way out of this. when i talk about better economic growth, and generating wealth, it is absolutely essential — if we had had the average growth rate of oecd countries since the financial crisis, every household in the country would be £5,000 a year better off, and we would have £50 billion a year more for public services, without having to change any tax rates. so you have got to expand the debate from this one, just around headroom, and tax measures. so you are backing all of today's budget, as far as i can, you haven't said you opposed anything. you are backing all of today's budget. they have taken on some of you ideas, obviously you support that as well. you have identicalfiscal rules, how does labour's economic policy then differ from the conservatives? well, look, we are putting economic

growth at the heart of our policy. where we do differ, we will say where the money comes from, that is important, and a duty of candour to people, and we can turn the page on the kind of chaos that we have had in recent years. if we get better economic growth, we generate the wealth needed for our public services, and we get away from the doom loop we have been in of low growth, increasing tax burden and creaking public services. you have to break out of that and you can't do it with the kind of economic debate we have been having at the moment. i believe the adoption of the non—dom plan was a complete intellectual collapse from the government for something they have been attacking for the last couple of years. it is the right thing to do, though, you would say as well. it is the right thing to do to abolish the non—dom tax loophole, but what it also destroys is the idea that labour has no plan, because if we had no plan, the tories wouldn't be stealing one. thank you very much, mr mcfadden. thank you for talking to newsnight. thank you.

ben's back alongside kate bell, assistant general secretary of the trades union congress, and rain newton—smith, director—general of the confederation of british industry. ben, what's caught your eye that hasn't been picked that hasn't been picked up elsewhere? well going through the spread sheets of the obr, one thing that caught my eye was public invest. so in infrastructure, things like that, now, this had already been due to fall as a share of gdp over the coming years, what they have done todayis coming years, what they have done today is they have cut it a bit more, now, it is going from about 2.5 now down to i.7%, to put that in money terms about £20 billion fall in public investment. a lot of the economists i speak to would put that right at the heart of any growth plan, and a lot them are disconcerted to be seeing the government cutting that at the same time it is saying it wants to boost growth in the long—term. and you know i would be interested in rain's

view because the government says now it wants to crowd in more private investment, but, is that going to happen, is that realistic if the government is sort of pulling back and cutting back on public investment? is there a risk there in your view? investment? is there a risk there in our view? . investment? is there a risk there in your view?— your view? there is certainly a risk and we know _ your view? there is certainly a risk and we know that _ your view? there is certainly a risk and we know that the _ your view? there is certainly a risk and we know that the overall- your view? there is certainly a risk and we know that the overall level| and we know that the overall level of public _ and we know that the overall level of public investment in the uk, we do fall— of public investment in the uk, we do fall behind our oecd peers so that is— do fall behind our oecd peers so that is something that businesses are concerned about, but what they do know _ are concerned about, but what they do know is — are concerned about, but what they do know is that the overall public finances — do know is that the overall public finances are in a challenging position— finances are in a challenging position and what is really important is that we focus on not 'ust important is that we focus on not just public— important is that we focus on not just public sector investment but private _ just public sector investment but private sector and that is certainly true when — private sector and that is certainly true when it comes to delivering a net zero _ true when it comes to delivering a net zero investment plan, if we are going _ net zero investment plan, if we are going to _ net zero investment plan, if we are going to decarbonise our economy, which _ going to decarbonise our economy, which we _ going to decarbonise our economy, which we know we need to do, and it's a _ which we know we need to do, and it's a real— which we know we need to do, and it's a real opportunity for the uk, economy, — it's a real opportunity for the uk, economy, the net zero economy grew at 9%_ economy, the net zero economy grew at 9% last — economy, the net zero economy grew at 9% last year, in terms of well, while _ at 9% last year, in terms of well, while our—

at 9% last year, in terms of well, while our overall economy was stagnant~ _ while our overall economy was stagnant. but for that we really need _ stagnant. but for that we really need to— stagnant. but for that we really need to unlock business sector investment, and that... need to unlock business sector investment, and that. . .- need to unlock business sector investment, and that... does one follow the — investment, and that... does one follow the other, _ investment, and that... does one follow the other, does _ investment, and that... does one follow the other, does the - investment, and that... does one follow the other, does the private business follow the public investment? i business follow the public investment?— business follow the public investment? ~ , ., . investment? i think you have both. what is important _ investment? i think you have both. what is important is _ investment? i think you have both. what is important is that _ investment? i think you have both. what is important is that you - investment? i think you have both. what is important is that you use i what is important is that you use private. — what is important is that you use private, public sector investment to provide _ private, public sector investment to provide a _ private, public sector investment to provide a catalytic effect, we have seen _ provide a catalytic effect, we have seen that — provide a catalytic effect, we have seen that if you take the net zero development of offshore wind, the way we _ development of offshore wind, the way we have been able to structure contract _ way we have been able to structure contract for — way we have been able to structure contract for difference and other things— contract for difference and other things have crowded in, so that now the five _ things have crowded in, so that now the five of— things have crowded in, so that now the five of the largest offshore wind _ the five of the largest offshore wind farms are around the uk's coast, — wind farms are around the uk's coast, so — wind farms are around the uk's coast, so that has been a success story— coast, so that has been a success story but— coast, so that has been a success story but there is more to do. what the important _ story but there is more to do. what the important to _ story but there is more to do. what the important to recognise one of the important to recognise one of the reasons— the important to recognise one of the reasons we _ the important to recognise one of the reasons we are _ the important to recognise one of the reasons we are in _ the important to recognise one of the reasons we are in such - the important to recognise one of the reasons we are in such a - the important to recognise one of the reasons we are in such a dire| the reasons we are in such a dire economic— the reasons we are in such a dire economic state _ the reasons we are in such a dire economic state is _ the reasons we are in such a dire economic state is because - the reasons we are in such a dire economic state is because we . the reasons we are in such a dire i economic state is because we keep cutting _ economic state is because we keep cutting public— economic state is because we keep cutting public investment. - economic state is because we keep cutting public investment. i- economic state is because we keep cutting public investment. i think. cutting public investment. i think everyone — cutting public investment. i think everyone knows— cutting public investment. i think everyone knows you _ cutting public investment. i think everyone knows you can't - cutting public investment. i think everyone knows you can't grow. cutting public investment. i think. everyone knows you can't grow your economy— everyone knows you can't grow your economy if— everyone knows you can't grow your economy if you — everyone knows you can't grow your economy if you your— everyone knows you can't grow your economy if you your infrastructure i economy if you your infrastructure is crumbling, _ economy if you your infrastructure is crumbling, if— economy if you your infrastructure is crumbling, if your— economy if you your infrastructure is crumbling, if your roads - economy if you your infrastructure is crumbling, if your roads aren't i is crumbling, if your roads aren't working. — is crumbling, if your roads aren't working. if— is crumbling, if your roads aren't working. if your— is crumbling, if your roads aren't working, if your public _ is crumbling, if your roads aren't working, if your public transport | working, if your public transport links— working, if your public transport links don't— working, if your public transport links don't work— working, if your public transport links don't work and _ working, if your public transport links don't work and that - working, if your public transport links don't work and that is - working, if your public transport links don't work and that is the i links don't work and that is the approach — links don't work and that is the approach we _ links don't work and that is the approach we have _ links don't work and that is the approach we have had - links don't work and that is the approach we have had in- links don't work and that is the approach we have had in the i links don't work and that is the i approach we have had in the last links don't work and that is the - approach we have had in the last ten year. _ approach we have had in the last ten year. it— approach we have had in the last ten year. it is—

approach we have had in the last ten year. it is not— approach we have had in the last ten year. it is notiust _ approach we have had in the last ten year, it is notjust public— year, it is notjust public investment— year, it is notjust public investment in— year, it is notjust public- investment in infrastructure, it is investment in infrastructure, it is in public— investment in infrastructure, it is in public services _ investment in infrastructure, it is in public services and _ investment in infrastructure, it is in public services and when - investment in infrastructure, it is in public services and when you i in public services and when you think— in public services and when you think about _ in public services and when you think about problems _ in public services and when you think about problems the - in public services and when you i think about problems the country is facing. _ think about problems the country is facing. both— think about problems the country is facing. both if— think about problems the country is facing, both if you _ think about problems the country is facing, both if you are _ think about problems the country is facing, both if you are someone i facing, both if you are someone waiting — facing, both if you are someone waiting to — facing, both if you are someone waiting to get _ facing, both if you are someone waiting to get a _ facing, both if you are someone| waiting to get a gp appointment facing, both if you are someone i waiting to get a gp appointment but if you're _ waiting to get a gp appointment but if you're a _ waiting to get a gp appointment but if you're a business _ waiting to get a gp appointment but if you're a business facing _ waiting to get a gp appointment but if you're a business facing skills i if you're a business facing skills shortage, — if you're a business facing skills shortage, that _ if you're a business facing skills shortage, that is _ if you're a business facing skills shortage, that is because - if you're a business facing skills shortage, that is because of- if you're a business facing skills| shortage, that is because of the lack of— shortage, that is because of the lack of invest. it _ shortage, that is because of the lack of invest. it is _ shortage, that is because of the lack of invest. it is about - shortage, that is because of the lack of invest. it is about the i shortage, that is because of the. lack of invest. it is about the lack of vincement _ lack of invest. it is about the lack of vincement in _ lack of invest. it is about the lack of vincement in the _ lack of invest. it is about the lack of vincement in the skills - lack of invest. it is about the lack of vincement in the skills system and that— of vincement in the skills system and that lack— of vincement in the skills system and that lack of— of vincement in the skills system and that lack of public— of vincement in the skills system| and that lack of public investment and that lack of public investment and in _ and that lack of public investment and in our— and that lack of public investment and in our public— and that lack of public investment and in our public service, - and that lack of public investment and in our public service, we i and that lack of public investment and in our public service, we have to recognise — and in our public service, we have to recognise is _ and in our public service, we have to recognise is why— and in our public service, we have to recognise is why when - and in our public service, we have to recognise is why when we i and in our public service, we have to recognise is why when we talkl to recognise is why when we talk about— to recognise is why when we talk about the — to recognise is why when we talk about the public— to recognise is why when we talk about the public finances - to recognise is why when we talk about the public finances are i to recognise is why when we talk about the public finances are in i to recognise is why when we talk| about the public finances are in a bad position. _ about the public finances are in a bad position. it _ about the public finances are in a bad position, it is _ about the public finances are in a bad position, it is because - about the public finances are in a bad position, it is because that i about the public finances are in a j bad position, it is because that is the approach _ bad position, it is because that is the approach we have _ bad position, it is because that is the approach we have been - bad position, it is because that is the approach we have been take i the approach we have been take fobbing — the approach we have been take fobbing terre _ the approach we have been take fobbing terre last _ the approach we have been take fobbing terre last decade. - the approach we have been take fobbing terre last decade. whyl the approach we have been take fobbing terre last decade. why have they shaved — fobbing terre last decade. why have they shaved it. _ fobbing terre last decade. why have they shaved it, because _ fobbing terre last decade. why have they shaved it, because of _ fobbing terre last decade. why have they shaved it, because of the i they shaved it, because of the state? �* . they shaved it, because of the state? �* , ., , state? because of the fiscal rules, to make those, _ state? because of the fiscal rules, to make those, to _ state? because of the fiscal rules, to make those, to hit _ state? because of the fiscal rules, to make those, to hit that - state? because of the fiscal rules, to make those, to hit that self- to make those, to hit that self imposed target they need to make economies and they have made a choice, that is what is going to be squeezed. this was styled at the budget for long—term growth, as i said before, the concern is that in, they are undermining that, a bit, but kate, let me ask you, in terms of those choices between you know, the nhs, and long—term public infrastructure, do you, is one more

important than the other, or are theyjust important than the other, or are they just as important than the other, or are theyjust as important? i important than the other, or are theyjust as important?- important than the other, or are theyjust as important? i think we need that infrastructure _ theyjust as important? i think we need that infrastructure and i need that infrastructure and investment— need that infrastructure and investment in— need that infrastructure and investment in public- need that infrastructure and i investment in public services and our public— investment in public services and our public services _ investment in public services and our public services are _ investment in public services and our public services are part - investment in public services and our public services are part of i investment in public services and| our public services are part of the infrastructure _ our public services are part of the infrastructure of— our public services are part of the infrastructure of our— our public services are part of the infrastructure of our country, i our public services are part of the infrastructure of our country, wei infrastructure of our country, we talk about — infrastructure of our country, we talk about skill, _ infrastructure of our country, we talk about skill, human - infrastructure of our country, we talk about skill, human capital. i infrastructure of our country, we i talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase _ talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i_ talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i love _ talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i love but— talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i love but that _ talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i love but that is _ talk about skill, human capital. not a phrase i love but that is what i a phrase i love but that is what businesses _ a phrase i love but that is what businesses talk— a phrase i love but that is what businesses talk about, - a phrase i love but that is what businesses talk about, we i a phrase i love but that is what| businesses talk about, we need skilled — businesses talk about, we need skilled people. _ businesses talk about, we need skilled people, we _ businesses talk about, we need skilled people, we need - businesses talk about, we need| skilled people, we need healthy people — skilled people, we need healthy people in— skilled people, we need healthy people in our— skilled people, we need healthy people in our workplace, - skilled people, we need healthy people in our workplace, where| skilled people, we need healthy. people in our workplace, where do skilled people, we need healthy- people in our workplace, where do we -et people in our workplace, where do we get them? _ people in our workplace, where do we get them? we — people in our workplace, where do we get them? we get _ people in our workplace, where do we get them? we get them _ people in our workplace, where do we get them? we get them from - people in our workplace, where do we get them? we get them from public. get them? we get them from public services, _ get them? we get them from public services, that— get them? we get them from public services, that is— get them? we get them from public services, that is why _ get them? we get them from public services, that is why it _ get them? we get them from public services, that is why it is— get them? we get them from public services, that is why it is vitele i services, that is why it is vitele investment— services, that is why it is vitele investment there. _ services, that is why it is vitele investment there. we - services, that is why it is vitele investment there.— services, that is why it is vitele investment there. we know what we need for a credible _ investment there. we know what we need for a credible plan _ investment there. we know what we need for a credible plan is _ investment there. we know what we need for a credible plan is a - investment there. we know what we need for a credible plan is a focus i need for a credible plan is a focus on people. — need for a credible plan is a focus on people, on innovation and on investment, and yes, public sector investment— investment, and yes, public sector investment plays a roll in that but the vast _ investment plays a roll in that but the vast majority has to come from the vast majority has to come from the public— the vast majority has to come from the public sectors if you look at the public sectors if you look at the changes in the past year, the chancellor— the changes in the past year, the chancellor back in the autumn made a permanent— chancellor back in the autumn made a permanent change to our tax landscape to incentivise business investment, that has been a game—changer. investment, that has been a game-changer.— investment, that has been a game-changer. investment, that has been a auame-chaner. , , game-changer. this is the full ex pen . in . game-changer. this is the full ex penging- that — game-changer. this is the full ex penging. that is _ game-changer. this is the full ex

penging. that is a _ game-changer. this is the full ex penging. that is a permanent i game-changer. this is the full ex i penging. that is a permanent change that will be there _ penging. that is a permanent change that will be there and _ penging. that is a permanent change that will be there and i _ penging. that is a permanent change that will be there and i think- penging. that is a permanent change that will be there and i think it i penging. that is a permanent change that will be there and i think it is i that will be there and i think it is really— that will be there and i think it is really important that rachel reeves has backed that as well so, that we have certainty in terms of both of the major— have certainty in terms of both of the major parties supporting that policy. _ the major parties supporting that policy, and that is what businesses need _ policy, and that is what businesses need to. _ policy, and that is what businesses need to, and i think one of the other— need to, and i think one of the other areas that we have been calling — other areas that we have been calling from the chancellor said he would _ calling from the chancellor said he would do _ calling from the chancellor said he would do today, is look at losing as well and _ would do today, is look at losing as well and second—hand assess and in a circular— well and second—hand assess and in a circular economy that is really important, and from the businesses we have _ important, and from the businesses we have surveyed, four in ten would invest _ we have surveyed, four in ten would invest more — we have surveyed, four in ten would invest more if that policy were in place. _ invest more if that policy were in place. so — invest more if that policy were in place. so i — invest more if that policy were in place, so i think that was an important _ place, so i think that was an important step forward. kate #3we8, ou important step forward. kate #3we8, you welcome — important step forward. kate #3we8, you welcome the _ important step forward. kate #3we8, you welcome the national— important step forward. kate #3we8, you welcome the national insurance i you welcome the national insurance cuts presumably for employees? working people have been struggling and this— working people have been struggling and this is— working people have been struggling and this is more _ working people have been struggling and this is more money— working people have been struggling and this is more money in— working people have been struggling and this is more money in their- and this is more money in their pockets — and this is more money in their pockets but _ and this is more money in their pockets but i _ and this is more money in their pockets but i don't _ and this is more money in their pockets but i don't think- and this is more money in theiri pockets but i don't think anyone is under— pockets but i don't think anyone is under illusion _ pockets but i don't think anyone is under illusion that _ pockets but i don't think anyone is under illusion that is _ pockets but i don't think anyone is under illusion that is going to i pockets but i don't think anyone isi under illusion that is going to make up under illusion that is going to make up for— under illusion that is going to make up for lost — under illusion that is going to make up for lost wage _ under illusion that is going to make up for lost wage growth _ under illusion that is going to make up for lost wage growth so - under illusion that is going to make up for lost wage growth so the i up for lost wage growth so the average — up for lost wage growth so the average person—

up for lost wage growth so the average perso— average person that is a lot of money and — average person that is a lot of money and l — average person that is a lot of money and i think _ average person that is a lot of money and i think most i average person that is a lot of| money and i think most people average person that is a lot of- money and i think most people will look at this tax cut thinking, this is a pre—election gimmick? is it sustainable and will it help me over the long term? they need a long—term sustained plan to raise the living standards. what do you think of the fact that labour is supporting everything in this budget? $5 fact that labour is supporting everything in this budget? as we said, we everything in this budget? as we said. we will— everything in this budget? as we said, we will not _ everything in this budget? as we said, we will not quibble - everything in this budget? as we said, we will not quibble with i everything in this budget? as we i said, we will not quibble with some people _ said, we will not quibble with some people getting _ said, we will not quibble with some people getting some _ said, we will not quibble with some people getting some money, - said, we will not quibble with some people getting some money, but. said, we will not quibble with somel people getting some money, but we want a _ people getting some money, but we want a long-term _ people getting some money, but we want a long—term plan _ people getting some money, but we want a long—term plan to _ people getting some money, but we want a long—term plan to raise - want a long—term plan to raise living — want a long—term plan to raise living standards, _ want a long—term plan to raise living standards, which - want a long—term plan to raise living standards, which means| want a long—term plan to raise - living standards, which means public investment— living standards, which means public investment and _ living standards, which means public investment and in _ living standards, which means public investment and in our— living standards, which means public investment and in our public- investment and in our public services _ investment and in our public services and _ investment and in our public services and also _ investment and in our public services and also new- investment and in our public services and also new rights| investment and in our public. services and also new rights for working — services and also new rights for working people _ services and also new rights for working people so _ services and also new rights for working people so they- services and also new rights for working people so they have i services and also new rights for working people so they have a i services and also new rights for- working people so they have a better more _ working people so they have a better more secure — working people so they have a better more secure jobs, _ working people so they have a better more secure jobs, which _ working people so they have a better more secure jobs, which is _ working people so they have a better more secure jobs, which is the - more secure jobs, which is the foundation _ more secure jobs, which is the foundation of— more secure jobs, which is the foundation of a _ more secure jobs, which is the foundation of a stronger- more secure jobs, which is the i foundation of a stronger economy. more secure jobs, which is the - foundation of a stronger economy. go foundation of a stronger economy. gig on. i foundation of a stronger economy. on. i think one of the choices the chancellor did make is if you're going to reduce taxes to support households, it is important to look at the in in sensitives for work. if you take the two reductions in national insurance, i think the obr have estimated that will mean

200,000 people are in work. do you think those tax _ 200,000 people are in work. do you think those tax cuts _ 200,000 people are in work. do you think those tax cuts are _ 200,000 people are in work. do you think those tax cuts are sustainable i think those tax cuts are sustainable because of the ifrs suggests whoever wins the next election will have two, in all likelihood, have to reverse them? we two, in all likelihood, have to reverse them?— two, in all likelihood, have to reverse them? ~ ~ ., ., , reverse them? we know whoever is in charre reverse them? we know whoever is in charge towards _ reverse them? we know whoever is in charge towards the _ reverse them? we know whoever is in charge towards the end _ reverse them? we know whoever is in charge towards the end of _ reverse them? we know whoever is in charge towards the end of the year i charge towards the end of the year next year will face a really difficult fiscal arithmetic. we know the balance sheet of the government is difficult so i think what you need to do is focus on sustainable growth. you need to focus on how you get investment growing in innovation growing in this country. i think it is good we are seeing the obr, her independent, the basis of the plans we have here, growth in the uk will live to around 2% and inflation will be coming down, but i don't think anyone says thejob be coming down, but i don't think anyone says the job is done. we be coming down, but i don't think anyone says thejob is done. we need to have a credible plan for infrastructure and much beyond. abs, infrastructure and much beyond. a final word? infrastructure and much beyond. a finalword? i don't infrastructure and much beyond. a final word? i don't any think anyone thinks this is sustainable. you

final word? i don't any think anyone thinks this is sustainable.— thinks this is sustainable. you can look at the _ thinks this is sustainable. you can look at the damage _ thinks this is sustainable. you can look at the damage it _ thinks this is sustainable. you can look at the damage it has - thinks this is sustainable. you can look at the damage it has done i thinks this is sustainable. you can i look at the damage it has done over the decade — look at the damage it has done over the decade and _ look at the damage it has done over the decade and i— look at the damage it has done over the decade and i think— look at the damage it has done over the decade and i think we _ look at the damage it has done over the decade and i think we need i look at the damage it has done over the decade and i think we need to i look at the damage it has done overl the decade and i think we need to be a change _ the decade and i think we need to be a chance. . ~ the decade and i think we need to be a chance. . ,, i. the decade and i think we need to be achanue. . ,, , the decade and i think we need to be achanue. . , . ., a change. thank you very much for cominr. a change. thank you very much for coming- thank— a change. thank you very much for coming. thank you. _ a change. thank you very much for coming. thank you. how _ a change. thank you very much for coming. thank you. how will i a change. thank you very much for coming. thank you. how will this | coming. thank you. how will this budget play out with you voters and politicians are what you now in an election year? and have we learned anything today about when that election will belet�*s talk to kelly beaver, chief executive of the polling firm ep sauce, and a special adviser, and achieve associate at the financial times. kelly, adviser, and achieve associate at the financialtimes. kelly, let adviser, and achieve associate at the financial times. kelly, let me ask you, is today going to help to change the electoral fortunes of the conservatives? i change the electoral fortunes of the conservatives?— conservatives? i think looking back over ass conservatives? i think looking back over pass past _ conservatives? i think looking back over pass past budget _ conservatives? i think looking back over pass past budget events, i conservatives? i think looking back over pass past budget events, it i conservatives? i think looking back over pass past budget events, it is| over pass past budget events, it is highly unlikely we will see a significant movement in the voting intention polls as a result of it. we no conservative party are currently less trusted in the economy and rachel reeves is also more trusted thanjeremy hunt when it comes to the role of

chancellor. there is a seismic gap between the conservative and labour party. we have just recently put out a poll which had the conservative party at the lowest level we have seen since we started pulling in 1978 with only 20% of the vote share. i think they are clearly setting out their stall for the electrical campaign and you can see what has happened in this budget, fuel duty which is a cost of living peace matters to the public when we line up taxes and ask which one they're most worried about, that they're most worried about, that they want to see change on. we know they want to see change on. we know they are about party of working people and again that has a labour logo, but you can see they are trying again to make changes for working people. trying again to make changes for working people-— working people. what you think jeremy hunt's _ working people. what you think jeremy hunt's strategy - working people. what you think jeremy hunt's strategy was i working people. what you think. jeremy hunt's strategy was today, poppy? jeremy hunt's strategy was today, po - ? ,, jeremy hunt's strategy was today, po . ? ,, ., jeremy hunt's strategy was today, po . . ? ,, ., . ~' jeremy hunt's strategy was today, pou ? ,, . . jeremy hunt's strategy was today, po.- ? ,, ., ., poppy? survive, and tick that box that had remained _ poppy? survive, and tick that box that had remained and _ poppy? survive, and tick that box that had remained and ticked i poppy? survive, and tick that box that had remained and ticked so l poppy? survive, and tick that box i that had remained and ticked so far which _ that had remained and ticked so far which was _ that had remained and ticked so far which was to prove the conservative party— which was to prove the conservative party can _ which was to prove the conservative party can be — which was to prove the conservative party can be tax—cutting. but we are in danger— party can be tax—cutting. but we are in danger of— party can be tax—cutting. but we are in danger of not seeing the tree for the word, _ in danger of not seeing the tree for the word, the environment and landscape _ the word, the environment and landscape is dreadful. in and of

itself, — landscape is dreadful. in and of itself, this— landscape is dreadful. in and of itself, this budget was well executed, it had a theme, he did make _ executed, it had a theme, he did make a _ executed, it had a theme, he did make a lot — executed, it had a theme, he did make a lot out of very little wiggle room _ make a lot out of very little wiggle room and — make a lot out of very little wiggle room and i — make a lot out of very little wiggle room and i think we will look back in time _ room and i think we will look back in time and — room and i think we will look back in time and say, he was a good chamettor— in time and say, he was a good chancellor and this was a good budget — chancellor and this was a good budget. itjust is unfortunate it is irrelevant— budget. itjust is unfortunate it is irrelevant at this moment in time. today. _ irrelevant at this moment in time. today. in— irrelevant at this moment in time. today. in my— irrelevant at this moment in time. today, in my view, the big surprise to many— today, in my view, the big surprise to many big — today, in my view, the big surprise to many big election giveaway did not come — to many big election giveaway did not come from the politicians, but the 0br— not come from the politicians, but the obr with those really improved forecasts— the obr with those really improved forecasts and outlooks. if the obr with those really improved forecasts and outlooks.— forecasts and outlooks. if that sticks... you _ forecasts and outlooks. if that sticks... you serially - forecasts and outlooks. if thatl sticks... you serially improve, forecasts and outlooks. if that - sticks... you serially improve, but a little bit. aha, sticks... you serially improve, but a little bit-— a little bit. a little bit improved. a late scratch _ a little bit. a little bit improved. a late scratch make _ a little bit. a little bit improved. a late scratch make some - a little bit. a little bit improved. a late scratch make some of - a little bit. a little bit improved. l a late scratch make some of the a little bit. a little bit improved. - a late scratch make some of the time frame _ a late scratch make some of the time frame is _ a late scratch make some of the time frame is removed up significantly in that environment and landscape insignificant.— that environment and landscape insianificant. ., . ., , ., insignificant. how much does today's buduet insignificant. how much does today's budget block— insignificant. how much does today's budget block labour— insignificant. how much does today's budget block labour in? _ insignificant. how much does today's budget block labour in? it _ insignificant. how much does today's budget block labour in? it gives - budget block labour in? it gives them a bit _ budget block labour in? it gives them a bit of — budget block labour in? it gives them a bit of a _ budget block labour in? it gives them a bit of a problem - budget block labour in? it gives them a bit of a problem in - budget block labour in? it gives them a bit of a problem in that. them a bit of a problem in that essentially— them a bit of a problem in that essentially the _ them a bit of a problem in that essentially the big _ them a bit of a problem in that essentially the big message i them a bit of a problem in thati essentially the big message has been. _ essentially the big message has been. look. _ essentially the big message has been, look, the _ essentially the big message has been, look, the way— essentially the big message has been, look, the way we - essentially the big message has been, look, the way we can- essentially the big message hasl been, look, the way we can have essentially the big message has- been, look, the way we can have more money— been, look, the way we can have more money for— been, look, the way we can have more money for the — been, look, the way we can have more money for the nhs, _ been, look, the way we can have more money for the nhs, breakfast - been, look, the way we can have more money for the nhs, breakfast clubs i money for the nhs, breakfast clubs is a quaint — money for the nhs, breakfast clubs is a quaint handful— money for the nhs, breakfast clubs is a quaint handful of— money for the nhs, breakfast clubs is a quaint handful of popular- money for the nhs, breakfast clubs is a quaint handful of popular tax i is a quaint handful of popular tax rises _ is a quaint handful of popular tax rises paid — is a quaint handful of popular tax rises paid for— is a quaint handful of popular tax rises paid for by— is a quaint handful of popular tax rises paid for by the _ is a quaint handful of popular tax rises paid for by the rich, - is a quaint handful of popular tax i rises paid for by the rich, changing her private —

rises paid for by the rich, changing her private schools _ rises paid for by the rich, changing her private schools are _ rises paid for by the rich, changing her private schools are taxed, - her private schools are taxed, extending _ her private schools are taxed, extending that _ her private schools are taxed, extending that windfall- her private schools are taxed, extending that windfall tax . her private schools are taxed, extending that windfall tax onl her private schools are taxed, - extending that windfall tax on the energy— extending that windfall tax on the energy companies, _ extending that windfall tax on the energy companies, changing - extending that windfall tax on the - energy companies, changing non—dom status, _ energy companies, changing non—dom status, the _ energy companies, changing non—dom status, the three _ energy companies, changing non—dom status, the three big _ energy companies, changing non—dom status, the three big revenue - status, the three big revenue raisers — status, the three big revenue raisers this— status, the three big revenue raisers this morning, - status, the three big revenue raisers this morning, and - status, the three big revenuel raisers this morning, and this evening — raisers this morning, and this evening they _ raisers this morning, and this evening they have _ raisers this morning, and this evening they have only - raisers this morning, and this evening they have only one . raisers this morning, and this| evening they have only one of raisers this morning, and this- evening they have only one of those left. evening they have only one of those left they _ evening they have only one of those left. they presumably _ evening they have only one of those left. they presumably wanted - evening they have only one of those left. they presumably wanted havel left. they presumably wanted have more _ left. they presumably wanted have more goodies— left. they presumably wanted have more goodies for— left. they presumably wanted have more goodies for their— left. they presumably wanted have more goodies for their manifesto, i more goodies for their manifesto, which _ more goodies for their manifesto, which they're _ more goodies for their manifesto, which they're angrily— more goodies for their manifesto, which they're angrily negotiating i which they're angrily negotiating about— which they're angrily negotiating about which— which they're angrily negotiating about which the _ which they're angrily negotiating about which the labour- which they're angrily negotiating about which the labour parties i which they're angrily negotiating - about which the labour parties want to do— about which the labour parties want to do whenever _ about which the labour parties want to do whenever it _ about which the labour parties want to do whenever it does _ about which the labour parties want to do whenever it does anything, i about which the labour parties wanti to do whenever it does anything, and now to do whenever it does anything, and how the _ to do whenever it does anything, and how the big _ to do whenever it does anything, and now the big question, _ to do whenever it does anything, and now the big question, what— to do whenever it does anything, and now the big question, what will- to do whenever it does anything, and now the big question, what will be i now the big question, what will be the place — now the big question, what will be the place that— now the big question, what will be the place that they _ now the big question, what will be the place that they will _ now the big question, what will be the place that they will spend - now the big question, what will be the place that they will spend on i the place that they will spend on the place that they will spend on the nhs — the place that they will spend on the nhs workforce _ the place that they will spend on the nhs workforce plan - the place that they will spend on the nhs workforce plan and - the place that they will spend on the nhs workforce plan and howl the place that they will spend on - the nhs workforce plan and how will they find _ the nhs workforce plan and how will they find more — the nhs workforce plan and how will they find more money— the nhs workforce plan and how will they find more money that - the nhs workforce plan and how will they find more money that is - the nhs workforce plan and how will they find more money that is not - they find more money that is not politically— they find more money that is not politically controversial - they find more money that is not politically controversial and - they find more money that is not. politically controversial and voters like the _ politically controversial and voters like the sound _ politically controversial and voters like the sound of— politically controversial and voters like the sound of that _ politically controversial and voters like the sound of that allows - politically controversial and voters like the sound of that allows them to answer— like the sound of that allows them to answer the _ like the sound of that allows them to answer the question _ like the sound of that allows them to answer the question of - like the sound of that allows them to answer the question of how- like the sound of that allows them i to answer the question of how would you be _ to answer the question of how would you be different? _ to answer the question of how would you be different? because _ to answer the question of how would you be different? because at- to answer the question of how would you be different? because at the - you be different? because at the moment— you be different? because at the moment they— you be different? because at the moment they are _ you be different? because at the moment they are struggling - you be different? because at the moment they are struggling to l you be different? because at the - moment they are struggling to answer that when— moment they are struggling to answer that when i_ moment they are struggling to answer that when i think. _ moment they are struggling to answer that when i think. what— moment they are struggling to answer that when i think.— that when i think. what is the latest polling _ that when i think. what is the latest polling on _ that when i think. what is the latest polling on the - that when i think. what is the latest polling on the public. that when i think. what is the i latest polling on the public when that when i think. what is the - latest polling on the public when it comes to preference of tax cuts over investing more in public services? it is not actually clear—cut. there has been a lot of polling done on this and it depends on how you frame the question and put the trade—offs. the truth is, the public about the money in their pocket and the public care about services. when you give

them the free rein and do not prompt in any way, the thing that comes out top is public services. for conservative party voters from 2019, they are more interested in tax—cutting than any labour party supporters, so there are differences and nuances, but ultimately, people care about both the economy, money in their pocket, as well as public services, and that has now moved up to the top issue that people care about in britain today. what to the top issue that people care about in britain today. what does toda tell about in britain today. what does today tell us _ about in britain today. what does today tell us about _ about in britain today. what does today tell us about when - about in britain today. what does today tell us about when the - today tell us about when the election will be? i today tell us about when the election will be?— today tell us about when the election will be? i think it tells us very little — election will be? i think it tells us very little about _ election will be? i think it tells us very little about when - election will be? i think it tells us very little about when the i us very little about when the election— us very little about when the election will— us very little about when the election will be. _ us very little about when the election will be.— us very little about when the election will be. really? what did ou make election will be. really? what did you make about _ election will be. really? what did you make about all— election will be. really? what did you make about all the _ election will be. really? what did you make about all the feverish i you make about all the feverish speculation about my second? that is because the — speculation about my second? that is because the liberal— speculation about my second? that is because the liberal party, _ speculation about my second? that is because the liberal party, and - speculation about my second? that is because the liberal party, and that i because the liberal party, and that they are _ because the liberal party, and that they are well — because the liberal party, and that they are well within _ because the liberal party, and that they are well within their _ because the liberal party, and that they are well within their rights - because the liberal party, and that they are well within their rights toi they are well within their rights to they are well within their rights to the less. — they are well within their rights to the less. they— they are well within their rights to the less, they want _ they are well within their rights to the less, they want and _ they are well within their rights to the less, they want and are - the less, they want and are currently— the less, they want and are currently having _ the less, they want and are i currently having negotiations the less, they want and are - currently having negotiations about their manifesto _ currently having negotiations about their manifesto internally - currently having negotiations about their manifesto internally —— - their manifesto internally —— because _ their manifesto internally —— because at— their manifesto internally —— because at the _ their manifesto internally —— because at the labour- their manifesto internally "l because at the labour party. their manifesto internally —— - because at the labour party. they need _ because at the labour party. they need to _ because at the labour party. they need to be — because at the labour party. they need to be able _ because at the labour party. they need to be able to _ because at the labour party. they need to be able to tell— because at the labour party. they need to be able to tell their- need to be able to tell their parliamentary— need to be able to tell their parliamentary candidates, i need to be able to tell their- parliamentary candidates, make sure you're _ parliamentary candidates, make sure you're hitting — parliamentary candidates, make sure you're hitting your— parliamentary candidates, make sure you're hitting your data _ parliamentary candidates, make sure you're hitting your data collection - you're hitting your data collection targets _ you're hitting your data collection targets because _ you're hitting your data collection targets because there _ you're hitting your data collection targets because there might - you're hitting your data collection targets because there might be l you're hitting your data collectionl targets because there might be an election— targets because there might be an election around _ targets because there might be an election around the _ targets because there might be an election around the corner, - targets because there might be an election around the corner, and i targets because there might be an. election around the corner, and what they were _

election around the corner, and what they were like — election around the corner, and what they were like in _ election around the corner, and what they were like in may— election around the corner, and what they were like in may is _ election around the corner, and what they were like in may is to— election around the corner, and what they were like in may is to say- election around the corner, and what they were like in may is to say that l they were like in may is to say that rishi _ they were like in may is to say that rishi suhak— they were like in may is to say that rishi suhak is _ they were like in may is to say that rishi sunak is not _ they were like in may is to say that rishi sunak is not having _ rishi sunak is not having an election— rishi sunak is not having an election now— rishi sunak is not having an election now because - rishi sunak is not having an election now because he - rishi sunak is not having an election now because he is| rishi sunak is not having an - election now because he is chicken, but ultimately. _ election now because he is chicken, but ultimately. i _ election now because he is chicken, but ultimately, i don't _ election now because he is chicken, but ultimately, idon't think- election now because he is chicken, but ultimately, i don't think any- but ultimately, i don't think any prime _ but ultimately, i don't think any prime ministers— but ultimately, i don't think any prime ministers going - but ultimately, i don't think any prime ministers going to- but ultimately, i don't think any- prime ministers going to voluntarily have an _ prime ministers going to voluntarily have an election _ prime ministers going to voluntarily have an election any— prime ministers going to voluntarily have an election any earlier - prime ministers going to voluntarily have an election any earlier than i have an election any earlier than they— have an election any earlier than they need — have an election any earlier than they need to _ have an election any earlier than they need to when _ have an election any earlier than they need to when they- have an election any earlier than they need to when they are - have an election any earlier than i they need to when they are hitting records _ they need to when they are hitting records in — they need to when they are hitting records in its — they need to when they are hitting records in its rosemary, _ they need to when they are hitting records in its rosemary, oldest - records in its rosemary, oldest pollster, — records in its rosemary, oldest pollster, that _ records in its rosemary, oldest pollster, that they _ records in its rosemary, oldest pollster, that they did - records in its rosemary, oldest pollster, that they did slump l records in its rosemary, oldest| pollster, that they did slump in records in its rosemary, oldest i pollster, that they did slump in in the mid-90s _ pollster, that they did slump in in the mid—90s and _ pollster, that they did slump in in the mid—90s and the _ pollster, that they did slump in in i the mid—90s and the translation: ekperimeht — —— the truss experiment. they will hold out to as late as possible, is it october or november or all the way to the legal end of the parliament, which will be january 2025? what do you think, poppy? the only dignified way out of it is to hope _ only dignified way out of it is to hope those predictions from the obr come true _ hope those predictions from the obr come true. the minute inflation does really— come true. the minute inflation does really fall— come true. the minute inflation does really fall significantly and interest kits, living standards, and wages _ interest kits, living standards, and wages. there was good news on wages today~ _ wages. there was good news on wages today. they're holding out. if that sticks, _ today. they're holding out. if that sticks, they will try to claim that

and call— sticks, they will try to claim that and call an— sticks, they will try to claim that and call an election based on that being _ and call an election based on that being a _ and call an election based on that being a product of their hard work and ingenuity when it is actually combihed — and ingenuity when it is actually combined most external forces, frahkly~ — combined most external forces, frankl . . �* combined most external forces, frankl. , �* ., , frankly. right. isn't there anything jeremy hunt. _ frankly. right. isn't there anything jeremy hunt, rishi _ frankly. right. isn't there anything jeremy hunt, rishi sunak- frankly. right. isn't there anything jeremy hunt, rishi sunak could i frankly. right. isn't there anything| jeremy hunt, rishi sunak could do, you think, that might change the dial a little bit? l you think, that might change the dial a little bit?— dial a little bit? i think actually toda and dial a little bit? i think actually today and it — dial a little bit? i think actually today and it did _ dial a little bit? i think actually today and it did change - dial a little bit? i think actually today and it did change the - dial a little bit? i think actually| today and it did change the dial dial a little bit? i think actually i today and it did change the dial a little _ today and it did change the dial a little bit — today and it did change the dial a little bit. and believe they have to id little bit. and believe they have to go that _ little bit. and believe they have to go that far, that is the trouble. i think— go that far, that is the trouble. i think it — go that far, that is the trouble. i think it is — go that far, that is the trouble. i think it is dangerous to be so categorical about elections. i think voters _ categorical about elections. i think voters actually do not appreciate that and — voters actually do not appreciate that and you can often trigger unexpected behaviours, higher, lower turnout. _ unexpected behaviours, higher, lower turnout. etc, — unexpected behaviours, higher, lower turnout, etc, so the election is not as foregone — turnout, etc, so the election is not as foregone as i think the world are saying _ as foregone as i think the world are saying and — as foregone as i think the world are saying and i— as foregone as i think the world are saying and i think today proved they do have _ saying and i think today proved they do have a _ saying and i think today proved they do have a plan, it isjust looking too little — do have a plan, it isjust looking too little too late and they're hoping — too little too late and they're hoping some of the economic measures will go _ hoping some of the economic measures will go in _ hoping some of the economic measures will go in their favour. i still think— will go in their favour. i still think it _ will go in their favour. i still think it will appear too little too late _ think it will appear too little too late so —

think it will appear too little too late, ,, ., , think it will appear too little too late, , ., think it will appear too little too late. , ., , late. so is it from the people you seak late. so is it from the people you 5 - eak to late. so is it from the people you speak to and _ late. so is it from the people you speak to and your _ late. so is it from the people you speak to and your contacts - late. so is it from the people you speak to and your contacts and i speak to and your contacts and expands within the party, in terms of voters, are theyjust not listening to the conservatives? any after iii years? listening to the conservatives? any after 14 years?— after 14 years? that is a really interesting — after 14 years? that is a really interesting question. - after 14 years? that is a really interesting question. i - after 14 years? that is a really interesting question. i do - after 14 years? that is a really interesting question. i do not| after 14 years? that is a really - interesting question. i do not have access— interesting question. i do not have access to — interesting question. i do not have access to focus groups on that sort of, access to focus groups on that sort of. but _ access to focus groups on that sort of. but i _ access to focus groups on that sort of, but i think they're disappointed. quite frankly, we have seen an— disappointed. quite frankly, we have seen an elastomer make budgets, which _ seen an elastomer make budgets, which have — seen an elastomer make budgets, which have been fairly complains about— which have been fairly complains about concise, they do not make up for what _ about concise, they do not make up for what came before, the two administrations which were pretty chaotic— administrations which were pretty chaotic and a lot of conservative voters _ chaotic and a lot of conservative voters are — chaotic and a lot of conservative voters are struggling with their shame — voters are struggling with their shame for all of that. there are still economic traces of previous administrations that this administrations that this administration is being held accountable for and rightly so. we are accountable for and rightly so. are seeing accountable for and rightly so. , are seeing across the world weather data, seven in ten of the british public say we want a new team of political leaders and what the conservative party will be trying to do is demonstrate that change by changing party is not going to

deliver any change at all because actually, they have got very similar party policy is now on things like the economy and budget, given that the economy and budget, given that the crossover between what labour have put forward in what the conservatives have put forward today. subbing the party of change is perhaps not such a mantra that will cut through. is is perhaps not such a mantra that will cut through.— is perhaps not such a mantra that will cut through. is labour offering enouah will cut through. is labour offering enough change. — will cut through. is labour offering enough change, do _ will cut through. is labour offering enough change, do you _ will cut through. is labour offering enough change, do you to - will cut through. is labour offering enough change, do you to voters? i enough change, do you to voters? considering where they are in the polls, perhaps they do not need to offer that much more. i'm not an expert. what do you say? this offer that much more. i'm not an expert. what do you say?- offer that much more. i'm not an expert. what do you say? this is the bi risk, expert. what do you say? this is the big risk. broadly _ expert. what do you say? this is the big risk, broadly speaking, _ expert. what do you say? this is the big risk, broadly speaking, the - big risk, broadly speaking, the labour— big risk, broadly speaking, the labour party— big risk, broadly speaking, the labour party tends _ big risk, broadly speaking, the labour party tends to - big risk, broadly speaking, the labour party tends to lose - labour party tends to lose elections. _ labour party tends to lose elections, so _ labour party tends to lose elections, so the - labour party tends to lose| elections, so the approach labour party tends to lose - elections, so the approach keir starmer— elections, so the approach keir starmer is _ elections, so the approach keir starmer is taking _ elections, so the approach keir starmer is taking is _ elections, so the approach keir starmer is taking is minimisingi elections, so the approach keir- starmer is taking is minimising the skill of— starmer is taking is minimising the skill of the — starmer is taking is minimising the skill of the risk, _ starmer is taking is minimising the skill of the risk, minimise - starmer is taking is minimising the skill of the risk, minimise the - skill of the risk, minimise the extent, — skill of the risk, minimise the extent, minimise— skill of the risk, minimise the extent, minimise how- skill of the risk, minimise the extent, minimise how much i skill of the risk, minimise the l extent, minimise how much of skill of the risk, minimise the i extent, minimise how much of a skill of the risk, minimise the - extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds— extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like — extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like. if— extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like. if you _ extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like. if you look— extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like. if you look at - extent, minimise how much of a chain she sounds like. if you look at some l she sounds like. if you look at some of the _ she sounds like. if you look at some of the things — she sounds like. if you look at some of the things they're _ she sounds like. if you look at some of the things they're proposing - she sounds like. if you look at some of the things they're proposing to i of the things they're proposing to do, of the things they're proposing to do. on _ of the things they're proposing to do. on the — of the things they're proposing to do, on the labour— of the things they're proposing to do, on the labour market - of the things they're proposing to do, on the labour market there . of the things they're proposing to i do, on the labour market there are some _ do, on the labour market there are some lrig _ do, on the labour market there are some lrig changes— do, on the labour market there are some big changes there, _ do, on the labour market there are some big changes there, but - do, on the labour market there are some big changes there, but wait i some big changes there, but wait they want— some big changes there, but wait they want to _ some big changes there, but wait they want to go _ some big changes there, but wait they want to go into _ some big changes there, but wait they want to go into the - some big changes there, but wait they want to go into the next - they want to go into the next election— they want to go into the next election promising _ they want to go into the next - election promising nonthreatening change~ _ election promising nonthreatening change the — election promising nonthreatening change the risk— election promising nonthreatening change. the risk is— election promising nonthreatening change. the risk is where - election promising nonthreatening change. the risk is where people i election promising nonthreatening i change. the risk is where people go vou're _ change. the risk is where people go you're no— change. the risk is where people go you're no change _ change. the risk is where people go you're no change at _ change. the risk is where people go you're no change at all— change. the risk is where people go you're no change at all and - change. the risk is where people go you're no change at all and the - you're no change at all and the incumbents— you're no change at all and the incumbents having _ you're no change at all and the incumbents having killed - you're no change at all and the incumbents having killed is-

you're no change at all and the incumbents having killed is yet you're no change at all and the i incumbents having killed is yet so we nright— incumbents having killed is yet so we might as — incumbents having killed is yet so we might as well _ incumbents having killed is yet so we might as well stick _ incumbents having killed is yet so we might as well stick with - incumbents having killed is yet so we might as well stick with them. that is— we might as well stick with them. that is what— we might as well stick with them. that is what this _