deal with the unique and help them deal with the unique and hostile _ help them deal with the unique and hostile involve operating environments in northern ireland. that support not provided. just the sort of— that support not provided. just the sort of activity occur elsewhere in the world? — sort of activity occur elsewhere in the world? i would hope it doesn't but i _ the world? i would hope it doesn't but i fear— the world? i would hope it doesn't but i fear it— the world? i would hope it doesn't but i fear it does. but certainly, none _ but i fear it does. but certainly, none of— but i fear it does. but certainly, none of these activities could occur today— none of these activities could occur today in _ none of these activities could occur today in the — none of these activities could occur today in the united kingdom, that includes _ today in the united kingdom, that includes northern ireland, of course — includes northern ireland, of course. ., , includes northern ireland, of course. i, course. two constable, yesterday indicated that _ course. two constable, yesterday indicated that you _ course. two constable, yesterday indicated that you share... - course. two constable, yesterday indicated that you share... do - course. two constable, yesterday| indicated that you share... do you think there is anything your team could have done better to get evidence that would have resulted in prosecution or do you think any chance of prosecution collapses? two thins chance of prosecution collapses? two thin . s to chance of prosecution collapses? two things to answer that question — firstly, _ things to answer that question — firstly, the — things to answer that question — firstly, the focus _ things to answer that question — firstly, the focus of _ things to answer that question — firstly, the focus of the - things to answer that question — firstly, the focus of the kenova i firstly, the focus of the kenova investigations _ firstly, the focus of the kenova investigations was _ firstly, the focus of the kenova investigations was the -

firstly, the focus of the kenova investigations was the agent. investigations was the agent stakekhife _ investigations was the agent stakeknife. that _ investigations was the agent stakeknife. that individual. investigations was the agent l stakeknife. that individual the person — stakeknife. that individual the person that _ stakeknife. that individual the person that the _ stakeknife. that individual the person that the entire - stakeknife. that individual the - person that the entire investigation looked _ person that the entire investigation looked at _ person that the entire investigation looked at with _ person that the entire investigation looked at with regards _ person that the entire investigation looked at with regards to _ person that the entire investigation looked at with regards to his - looked at with regards to his activities _ looked at with regards to his activities as— looked at with regards to his activities as an _ looked at with regards to his activities as an agent - looked at with regards to his activities as an agent and . looked at with regards to his| activities as an agent and his criminality _ activities as an agent and his criminality i— activities as an agent and his criminality. i think— activities as an agent and his criminality. i think that - activities as an agent and his criminality. i think that the l criminality. i think that the evidence _ criminality. i think that the evidence we _ criminality. i think that the evidence we did _ criminality. i think that the evidence we did recover. criminality. i think that the i evidence we did recover and criminality. i think that the - evidence we did recover and was put before _ evidence we did recover and was put before the _ evidence we did recover and was put before the prosecuting _ evidence we did recover and was put before the prosecuting authorities . before the prosecuting authorities was considerable _ before the prosecuting authorities was considerable and _ before the prosecuting authorities was considerable and compelling. | before the prosecuting authorities - was considerable and compelling. and i think. _ was considerable and compelling. and ithink. if— was considerable and compelling. and i think. if we _ was considerable and compelling. and r think, if we apply— was considerable and compelling. and i think, if we apply the _ i think, if we apply the recommendation - i think, if we apply the recommendation thati i think, if we apply the i recommendation that i i think, if we apply the - recommendation that i suggest i think, if we apply the _ recommendation that i suggest we review— recommendation that i suggest we review how— recommendation that i suggest we review how those _ recommendation that i suggest we review how those files _ recommendation that i suggest we review how those files are - recommendation that i suggest we i review how those files are examined in the _ review how those files are examined in the future, — review how those files are examined in the future, not _ review how those files are examined in the future, not only— review how those files are examined in the future, not only will— review how those files are examined in the future, not only will there - in the future, not only will there not be _ in the future, not only will there not be the — in the future, not only will there not be the delay— in the future, not only will there not be the delay is— in the future, not only will there not be the delay is that - in the future, not only will there not be the delay is that those i not be the delay is that those tamities— not be the delay is that those families have _ not be the delay is that those families have suffered, - not be the delay is that those . families have suffered, because that's— families have suffered, because that's further— families have suffered, because that's further traumatised - families have suffered, becausei that's further traumatised nation families have suffered, because . that's further traumatised nation of those _ that's further traumatised nation of those families, _ that's further traumatised nation of those families, but _ that's further traumatised nation of those families, but potentially, - that's further traumatised nation of those families, but potentially, we| those families, but potentially, we might— those families, but potentially, we nright have — those families, but potentially, we might have seen _ those families, but potentially, we might have seen prosecutions. - those families, but potentially, we might have seen prosecutions. i. might have seen prosecutions. i would _ might have seen prosecutions. i would also — might have seen prosecutions. i would also point _ might have seen prosecutions. i would also point you _ might have seen prosecutions. i would also point you to - might have seen prosecutions. i would also point you to the - might have seen prosecutions. i. would also point you to the perjury section— would also point you to the perjury section in— would also point you to the perjury section in the _ would also point you to the perjury section in the report, _ would also point you to the perjury section in the report, which - would also point you to the perjury

section in the report, which sets. section in the report, which sets out again— section in the report, which sets out again the _ section in the report, which sets out again the truth _ section in the report, which sets out again the truth about - section in the report, which sets out again the truth about what l out again the truth about what happens — out again the truth about what happens with _ out again the truth about what happens with regards - out again the truth about what happens with regards to - out again the truth about what happens with regards to the l happens with regards to the affidavits _ happens with regards to the affidavits that _ happens with regards to the affidavits that involved - happens with regards to the i affidavits that involved freddie scappaticci _ affidavits that involved freddie scappaticci i— affidavits that involved freddie scappaticci. i think— affidavits that involved freddie scappaticci. i think the - affidavits that involved freddie . scappaticci. i think the evidential collection— scappaticci. i think the evidential collection was— scappaticci. i think the evidential collection was significant, - scappaticci. i think the evidential collection was significant, it - scappaticci. i think the evidential collection was significant, it wasi collection was significant, it was above _ collection was significant, it was above what _ collection was significant, it was above what i _ collection was significant, it was above what i expected _ collection was significant, it was above what i expected and - collection was significant, it was above what i expected and i- collection was significant, it was. above what i expected and i think we're _ above what i expected and i think we're all— above what i expected and i think we're all disappointed _ above what i expected and i think we're all disappointed there - above what i expected and i think| we're all disappointed there won't prosecutions— we're all disappointed there won't prosecutions of— we're all disappointed there won't prosecutions of stakeknife. - we're all disappointed there won't prosecutions of stakeknife. but. prosecutions of stakeknife. but again— prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i— prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i say— prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i say this _ prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i say this finally - prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i say this finally on - prosecutions of stakeknife. but again i say this finally on that l again i say this finally on that point, — again i say this finally on that point, it's— again i say this finally on that point. it'san_ again i say this finally on that point, it's an incredibly- again i say this finally on that i point, it's an incredibly difficult pro subversion— point, it's an incredibly difficult pro subversion to _ point, it's an incredibly difficult pro subversion to prosecute . point, it's an incredibly difficult - pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases— pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases because _ pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases because of— pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases because of the _ pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases because of the time - pro subversion to prosecute legacy cases because of the time that's . cases because of the time that's passed — cases because of the time that's passed. certain— cases because of the time that's passed. certain people - cases because of the time that's passed. certain people are - cases because of the time that's passed. certain people are no. cases because of the time that's - passed. certain people are no longer alive that _ passed. certain people are no longer alive that are — passed. certain people are no longer alive that are required _ passed. certain people are no longer alive that are required to _ passed. certain people are no longer alive that are required to provide - alive that are required to provide the continuity— alive that are required to provide the continuity of— alive that are required to provide the continuity of evidence. - alive that are required to provide the continuity of evidence. some docunrents — the continuity of evidence. some docunrents no _ the continuity of evidence. some documents no longer— the continuity of evidence. some documents no longer exist, - the continuity of evidence. some documents no longer exist, so. the continuity of evidence. some documents no longer exist, so it| the continuity of evidence. some l documents no longer exist, so it is a really— documents no longer exist, so it is a really difficult _ documents no longer exist, so it is a really difficult thing _ documents no longer exist, so it is a really difficult thing to _ documents no longer exist, so it is a really difficult thing to do. - documents no longer exist, so it is a really difficult thing to do. so, i a really difficult thing to do. so, i have _ a really difficult thing to do. so, i have sympathy— a really difficult thing to do. so, i have sympathy with _ a really difficult thing to do. so, i have sympathy with the - a really difficult thing to do. so, i have sympathy with the publicl i have sympathy with the public prosecutions _ i have sympathy with the public prosecutions service. _ i have sympathy with the public prosecutions service. they- i have sympathy with the publicl prosecutions service. they have

highlighted _ prosecutions service. they have highlighted previously— prosecutions service. they have highlighted previously the - prosecutions service. they have highlighted previously the lack. prosecutions service. they have l highlighted previously the lack of resources — highlighted previously the lack of resources to _ highlighted previously the lack of resources to deal— highlighted previously the lack of resources to deal with _ highlighted previously the lack of resources to deal with legacy- highlighted previously the lack ofj resources to deal with legacy and specifically. — resources to deal with legacy and specifically, actually, _ resources to deal with legacy and specifically, actually, with - resources to deal with legacy and specifically, actually, with the . specifically, actually, with the kenova — specifically, actually, with the kenova files _ specifically, actually, with the kenova files that _ specifically, actually, with the kenova files that were - specifically, actually, with the i kenova files that were submitted specifically, actually, with the - kenova files that were submitted to then _ kenova files that were submitted to then and — kenova files that were submitted to then and i— kenova files that were submitted to them. and i think— kenova files that were submitted to them. and i think it's _ kenova files that were submitted to them. and i think it's another- them. and i think it's another example _ them. and i think it's another example of— them. and i think it's another example of where _ them. and i think it's another example of where legacy - them. and i think it's another- example of where legacy families, whether— example of where legacy families, whether it's — example of where legacy families, whether it's civil— example of where legacy families, whether it's civil cases, _ example of where legacy families, whether it's civil cases, or- whether it's civil cases, or criminal— whether it's civil cases, or criminal investigations, i whether it's civil cases, or- criminal investigations, where whether it's civil cases, or— criminal investigations, where we've failed _ criminal investigations, where we've failed this— criminal investigations, where we've failed this legacv _ criminal investigations, where we've failed this legacy families. _ criminal investigations, where we've failed this legacy families. [- criminal investigations, where we've failed this legacy families.— failed this legacy families. i spoke with a family _ failed this legacy families. i spoke with a family member— failed this legacy families. i spoke with a family member yesterday i failed this legacy families. i spoke i with a family member yesterday who welcomed the report because your team... in the reports, you said... could you give us a figure as to how many lives were lost in relation to

the agent stakeknife?— many lives were lost in relation to the agent stakeknife? some of that detail, the agent stakeknife? some of that detail. we're _ the agent stakeknife? some of that detail, we're working _ the agent stakeknife? some of that detail, we're working with - the agent stakeknife? some of that detail, we're working with families l detail, we're working with families now to _ detail, we're working with families now to give — detail, we're working with families now to give them _ detail, we're working with families now to give them that _ detail, we're working with families now to give them that detail, - detail, we're working with familiesi now to give them that detail, some of that— now to give them that detail, some of that detail — now to give them that detail, some of that detail will— now to give them that detail, some of that detail will await _ now to give them that detail, some of that detail will await the - now to give them that detail, some of that detail will await the final- of that detail will await the final report~ — of that detail will await the final report~ i— of that detail will await the final report. i want _ of that detail will await the final report. i want to _ of that detail will await the final report. i want to make - of that detail will await the final report. i want to make anotheri of that detail will await the final- report. i want to make another thing clear - _ report. i want to make another thing clear - this— report. i want to make another thing clear — this report _ report. i want to make another thing clear — this report is _ report. i want to make another thing clear — this report is high _ report. i want to make another thing clear — this report is high level- clear — this report is high level around — clear — this report is high level around what _ clear — this report is high level around what we've _ clear — this report is high level| around what we've discovered. clear — this report is high level- around what we've discovered. the detail— around what we've discovered. the detail that — around what we've discovered. the detail that iain _ around what we've discovered. the detail that iain and _ around what we've discovered. the detail that iain and the _ around what we've discovered. the detail that iain and the team - around what we've discovered. the detail that iain and the team have i detail that iain and the team have now given — detail that iain and the team have now given to— detail that iain and the team have now given to the _ detail that iain and the team have now given to the families - detail that iain and the team have now given to the families and - detail that iain and the team have now given to the families and we i now given to the families and we have _ now given to the families and we have given — now given to the families and we have given families _ now given to the families and we have given families detail- have given families detail throughout— have given families detail throughout the _ have given families detail throughout the lifetime . have given families detail| throughout the lifetime of have given families detail— throughout the lifetime of operation kenova. _ throughout the lifetime of operation kenova. is _ throughout the lifetime of operation kenova. is for— throughout the lifetime of operation kenova, is for the _ throughout the lifetime of operation kenova, is for the families _ throughout the lifetime of operation kenova, is for the families to - throughout the lifetime of operation kenova, is for the families to hear. kenova, is for the families to hear first and _ kenova, is for the families to hear first and foremost. _ kenova, is for the families to hear first and foremost. there - kenova, is for the families to hear first and foremost. there will - kenova, is for the families to hear first and foremost. there will be l first and foremost. there will be nothing — first and foremost. there will be nothing in — first and foremost. there will be nothing in the _ first and foremost. there will be nothing in the final— first and foremost. there will be nothing in the final report - first and foremost. there will be nothing in the final report with l nothing in the final report with regards — nothing in the final report with regards to— nothing in the final report with regards to any— nothing in the final report with regards to any detail - nothing in the final report with regards to any detail that - nothing in the final report with. regards to any detail that hasn't been _ regards to any detail that hasn't been agreed by— regards to any detail that hasn't been agreed by those _ regards to any detail that hasn't been agreed by those families l regards to any detail that hasn'tl been agreed by those families as well _ been agreed by those families as well 0k~ — collusion is an interesting and synonymous— collusion is an interesting and synonymous word _ collusion is an interesting and synonymous word with - collusion is an interesting and|

synonymous word with legacy. collusion is an interesting and - synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens. _ synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens. who— synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens, who has— synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens, who has been— synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens, who has been a _ synonymous word with legacy. lord stevens, who has been a great- stevens, who has been a great supporter— stevens, who has been a great supporter of _ stevens, who has been a great supporter of this— stevens, who has been a greatj supporter of this investigation, first introduced _ supporter of this investigation, first introduced that _ supporter of this investigation, first introduced that term, - supporter of this investigation, first introduced that term, i. supporter of this investigation, . first introduced that term, i think predominantly— first introduced that term, i think predominantly through— first introduced that term, i think| predominantly through frustration because _ predominantly through frustration because he — predominantly through frustration because he was _ predominantly through frustration because he was lying _ predominantly through frustration because he was lying to, - predominantly through frustration i because he was lying to, information that you _ because he was lying to, information that you should — because he was lying to, information that you should have _ because he was lying to, information that you should have received - because he was lying to, information that you should have received was i that you should have received was not passed — that you should have received was not passed to _ that you should have received was not passed to him, _ that you should have received was not passed to him, and _ that you should have received was not passed to him, and lord - that you should have received was i not passed to him, and lord stevens makes _ not passed to him, and lord stevens makes comments _ not passed to him, and lord stevens makes comments in _ not passed to him, and lord stevens makes comments in the _ not passed to him, and lord stevens makes comments in the report, - not passed to him, and lord stevens. makes comments in the report, which again. _ makes comments in the report, which again. i— makes comments in the report, which again. iwould— makes comments in the report, which again. i would ask— makes comments in the report, which again, i would ask you _ makes comments in the report, which again, i would ask you to _ makes comments in the report, which again, i would ask you to take - makes comments in the report, which again, i would ask you to take a - again, i would ask you to take a look— again, i would ask you to take a look at — again, i would ask you to take a look at i— again, i would ask you to take a look at i am _ again, i would ask you to take a lookat~ iam a— again, i would ask you to take a look at. i am a person - again, i would ask you to take a look at. i am a person that - again, i would ask you to take a - look at. i am a person that believes in due _ look at. i am a person that believes in due process _ look at. i am a person that believes in due process. it's— look at. i am a person that believes in due process. it's very— look at. i am a person that believes in due process. it's very difficult - in due process. it's very difficult to prove — in due process. it's very difficult to prove collusion— in due process. it's very difficult to prove collusion at _ in due process. it's very difficult to prove collusion at or- in due process. it's very difficult to prove collusion at orjust - in due process. it's very difficult. to prove collusion at orjust prove collusion~ — to prove collusion at orjust prove collusion~ 0ur— to prove collusion at orjust prove collusion. ourjob _ to prove collusion at orjust prove collusion. ourjob as _ to prove collusion at orjust prove collusion. ourjob as detectives . to prove collusion at orjust provej collusion. ourjob as detectives is to show— collusion. ourjob as detectives is to show the — collusion. ourjob as detectives is to show the evidence _ collusion. ourjob as detectives is to show the evidence where - collusion. ourjob as detectives is to show the evidence where there collusion. ourjob as detectives is l to show the evidence where there is criminality— to show the evidence where there is criminalitv and — to show the evidence where there is criminality and if— to show the evidence where there is criminality and if there _ to show the evidence where there is criminality and if there is _ criminality and if there is malfeasance in a - criminality and if there is malfeasance in a public. criminality and if there is - malfeasance in a public offers or members — malfeasance in a public offers or members of— malfeasance in a public offers or members of security— malfeasance in a public offers or members of security forces - malfeasance in a public offers or members of security forces are i members of security forces are involved — members of security forces are involved in— members of security forces are involved in murders, _ members of security forces are involved in murders, in- members of security forces are involved in murders, in the - members of security forces are | involved in murders, in the way members of security forces are i involved in murders, in the way of aiding _ involved in murders, in the way of aiding and— involved in murders, in the way of aiding and abetting _ involved in murders, in the way of aiding and abetting or— involved in murders, in the way of aiding and abetting or conspiring i aiding and abetting or conspiring with agents. _ aiding and abetting or conspiring with agents, then _ aiding and abetting or conspiring with agents, then we _ aiding and abetting or conspiring with agents, then we should - aiding and abetting or conspiring| with agents, then we should deal with agents, then we should deal with them — with agents, then we should deal with them for— with agents, then we should deal with them for the _ with agents, then we should deal with them for the substantive - with them for the substantive criminal— with them for the substantive criminal offences. _ with them for the substantive criminal offences. but- with them for the substantive criminal offences. but i-

with them for the substantive - criminal offences. but i understand why people — criminal offences. but i understand why people have _ criminal offences. but i understand why people have become _ criminal offences. but i understand why people have become so- criminal offences. but i understandl why people have become so wedded criminal offences. but i understand - why people have become so wedded to the term _ why people have become so wedded to the term but— why people have become so wedded to the term but i— why people have become so wedded to the term but i think— why people have become so wedded to the term but i think you _ why people have become so wedded to the term but i think you need - why people have become so wedded to the term but i think you need to - the term but i think you need to show— the term but i think you need to show through— the term but i think you need to show through proper— the term but i think you need to - show through proper investigations, rigorous _ show through proper investigations, rigorous examination _ show through proper investigations, rigorous examination of _ show through proper investigations, rigorous examination of the - show through proper investigations, rigorous examination of the facts i rigorous examination of the facts whether— rigorous examination of the facts whether there _ rigorous examination of the facts whether there is _ rigorous examination of the facts whether there is wrongdoing - rigorous examination of the facts whether there is wrongdoing or. whether there is wrongdoing or criminalitv _ whether there is wrongdoing or criminalitv i— whether there is wrongdoing or criminality. i leave _ whether there is wrongdoing or criminality. i leave it _ whether there is wrongdoing or criminality. i leave it to- whether there is wrongdoing or criminality. i leave it to other. criminality. i leave it to other people — criminality. i leave it to other people to _ criminality. i leave it to other people to judge _ criminality. i leave it to other people tojudge on— criminality. i leave it to other people to judge on what - criminality. i leave it to other people to judge on what i've i criminality. i leave it to other- people tojudge on what i've said today— people tojudge on what i've said today whether _ people tojudge on what i've said today whether this— people tojudge on what i've said today whether this is _ people tojudge on what i've said today whether this is collusion i people tojudge on what i've saidj today whether this is collusion or not. today whether this is collusion or not it— today whether this is collusion or not it is— today whether this is collusion or not. it is certainly— today whether this is collusion or not. it is certainly wrong - today whether this is collusion or not. it is certainly wrong and - not. it is certainly wrong and should — not. it is certainly wrong and should never— not. it is certainly wrong and should never have _ not. it is certainly wrong andi should never have happened. jude, sorry. iwill say jude, sorry. i will say very clearly. _ jude, sorry. i will say very clearly. to— jude, sorry. i will say very clearly, to engage - jude, sorry. i will say very clearly, to engage with, l jude, sorry. i will say very - clearly, to engage with, listen to, acknowledge _ clearly, to engage with, listen to, acknowledge and _ clearly, to engage with, listen to, acknowledge and respect - clearly, to engage with, listen to, acknowledge and respect these i acknowledge and respect these families — acknowledge and respect these families. i've _ acknowledge and respect these

families. i've seen— acknowledge and respect these families. i've seen correspondsj acknowledge and respect these . families. i've seen corresponds of thev've _ families. i've seen corresponds of they've received _ families. i've seen corresponds of they've received from _ families. i've seen corresponds of. they've received from organisations, they've received from organisations, the efforts _ they've received from organisations, the efforts they've _ they've received from organisations, the efforts they've gone _ they've received from organisations, the efforts they've gone to - they've received from organisations, the efforts they've gone to to - they've received from organisations, the efforts they've gone to to try - the efforts they've gone to to try and find — the efforts they've gone to to try and find out _ the efforts they've gone to to try and find out what _ the efforts they've gone to to try and find out what happened - the efforts they've gone to to try and find out what happened to l the efforts they've gone to to try i and find out what happened to their loved _ and find out what happened to their loved ones — and find out what happened to their loved ones - — and find out what happened to their loved ones — and _ and find out what happened to their loved ones — and this _ and find out what happened to their loved ones — and this is _ and find out what happened to their loved ones — and this is not - and find out what happened to their loved ones — and this is notjust- loved ones — and this is notjust kenova — loved ones — and this is notjust kenova cases _ loved ones — and this is notjust kenova cases. and _ loved ones — and this is notjust kenova cases. and the - loved ones — and this is notjust kenova cases. and the failings. loved ones — and this is notjust. kenova cases. and the failings of loved ones — and this is notjust- kenova cases. and the failings of us as the _ kenova cases. and the failings of us as the authorities _ kenova cases. and the failings of us as the authorities to _ kenova cases. and the failings of us as the authorities to provide - kenova cases. and the failings of us as the authorities to provide them l as the authorities to provide them with the _ as the authorities to provide them with the answer— as the authorities to provide them with the answer that _ as the authorities to provide them with the answer that often - as the authorities to provide them with the answer that often we - as the authorities to provide theml with the answer that often we have is the _ with the answer that often we have is the biggest — with the answer that often we have is the biggest lesson _ with the answer that often we have is the biggest lesson that - with the answer that often we have is the biggest lesson that i - with the answer that often we have is the biggest lesson that i think, l is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly— is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in — is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in wider— is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in wider uk _ is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in wider uk society- is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in wider uk society in - is the biggest lesson that i think, broadly in wider uk society in gb| is the biggest lesson that i think, i broadly in wider uk society in gb is not properly— broadly in wider uk society in gb is not properly understood. _ broadly in wider uk society in gb is not properly understood. and - broadly in wider uk society in gb is not properly understood. and we . not properly understood. and we can't _ not properly understood. and we can't afford — not properly understood. and we can't afford to _ not properly understood. and we can't afford to continue - not properly understood. and we can't afford to continue with - not properly understood. and we can't afford to continue with that| can't afford to continue with that direction — can't afford to continue with that direction. ., a , ., , direction. two quick questions... would you _ direction. two quick questions... would you say — direction. two quick questions... would you say the _ direction. two quick questions... would you say the high - direction. two quick questions... would you say the high towns, . direction. two quick questions... i would you say the high towns, low teens...? can you say how many

more...? so, what confidence do you have a collapses? so, what confidence do you have a colla ses? so, what confidence do you have a collases? ., , collapses? so, on the figures, i want to leave _ collapses? so, on the figures, i want to leave that _ collapses? so, on the figures, i want to leave that to _ collapses? so, on the figures, i want to leave that to the - collapses? so, on the figures, i want to leave that to the final l want to leave that to the final reports. — want to leave that to the final reports. the _ want to leave that to the final reports, the detail, _ want to leave that to the final reports, the detail, and - want to leave that to the final reports, the detail, and the l want to leave that to the final. reports, the detail, and the first people _ reports, the detail, and the first people to — reports, the detail, and the first people to be _ reports, the detail, and the first people to be told _ reports, the detail, and the first people to be told some - reports, the detail, and the first people to be told some of- reports, the detail, and the first people to be told some of thosej people to be told some of those details — people to be told some of those details will _ people to be told some of those details will be _ people to be told some of those details will be the _ people to be told some of those details will be the families. - people to be told some of those| details will be the families. with regards — details will be the families. with regards to— details will be the families. with regards to the _ details will be the families. with regards to the judgments - details will be the families. with regards to the judgments last i details will be the families. with - regards to the judgments last week, that was— regards to the judgments last week, that was around _ regards to the judgments last week, that was around the _ regards to the judgments last week, that was around the immunity - regards to the judgments last week, i that was around the immunity element of the _ that was around the immunity element of the bill _ that was around the immunity element of the bill i— that was around the immunity element of the bill. i understand _ that was around the immunity element of the bill. i understand that— that was around the immunity element of the bill. i understand that the - of the bill. i understand that the governments _ of the bill. i understand that the

governments are _ of the bill. i understand that the governments are appealing - of the bill. i understand that the governments are appealing that| governments are appealing that element — governments are appealing that element of— governments are appealing that element of the _ governments are appealing that element of the judgment. - governments are appealing that element of the judgment. with i element of the judgment. with regards — element of the judgment. with regards to— element of the judgment. with regards to the _ element of the judgment. with regards to the commission, - element of the judgment. with regards to the commission, if i j element of the judgment. with - regards to the commission, if i can call it— regards to the commission, if i can call it that — regards to the commission, if i can tau it that the _ regards to the commission, if i can call it that the commission - regards to the commission, if i can call it that the commission for- regards to the commission, if i can| call it that the commission for evs, it's led _ call it that the commission for evs, it's led by— call it that the commission for evs, it's led by sir— call it that the commission for evs, it's led by sir declan _ call it that the commission for evs, it's led by sir declan morgan, - call it that the commission for evs, it's led by sir declan morgan, a - it's led by sir declan morgan, a previous— it's led by sir declan morgan, a previous lord _ it's led by sir declan morgan, a previous lord chief— it's led by sir declan morgan, a previous lord chiefjustice - it's led by sir declan morgan, a | previous lord chiefjustice here, and sir— previous lord chiefjustice here, and sir declan— previous lord chiefjustice here, and sir declan introduced... - previous lord chiefjustice here, and sir declan introduced... his| and sir declan introduced... his authenticity. _ and sir declan introduced... his authenticity, the _ and sir declan introduced... his authenticity, the genuine - and sir declan introduced... hisj authenticity, the genuine intent that he — authenticity, the genuine intent that he has— authenticity, the genuine intent that he has had _ authenticity, the genuine intent that he has had to _ authenticity, the genuine intent that he has had to make - authenticity, the genuine intent that he has had to make the - that he has had to make the commission— that he has had to make the commission work, _ that he has had to make the commission work, i- that he has had to make the commission work, i think, l that he has had to make the| commission work, i think, is undoubted _ commission work, i think, is undoubted. the _ commission work, i think, is undoubted. the backgroundl commission work, i think, is l undoubted. the background of commission work, i think, is - undoubted. the background of the legislation— undoubted. the background of the legislation that's _ undoubted. the background of the legislation that's created - undoubted. the background of the legislation that's created the - legislation that's created the commission— legislation that's created the commission does— legislation that's created the commission does cause - legislation that's created the i commission does cause family legislation that's created the - commission does cause family great concern _ commission does cause family great concern but— commission does cause family great concern but what— commission does cause family great concern. but what i— commission does cause family great concern. but what i can _ commission does cause family great concern. but what i can say - commission does cause family great concern. but what i can say is - commission does cause family great concern. but what i can say is the i concern. but what i can say is the chief— concern. but what i can say is the chief constable _ concern. but what i can say is the chief constable of— concern. but what i can say is the chief constable of psni _ concern. but what i can say is the chief constable of psni is - concern. but what i can say is the chief constable of psni is that. concern. but what i can say is the | chief constable of psni is that the psni will— chief constable of psni is that the psni will cooperate _ chief constable of psni is that the psni will cooperate with _ chief constable of psni is that the psni will cooperate with that - psni will cooperate with that commission _ psni will cooperate with that commission. we _ psni will cooperate with that commission. we will- psni will cooperate with that commission. we will give - psni will cooperate with thati commission. we will give that commission— commission. we will give that commission unfettered - commission. we will give thatj commission unfettered access commission. we will give that i commission unfettered access to information. _ commission unfettered access to information. so— commission unfettered access to information, so i— commission unfettered access to information, so i would - commission unfettered access to. information, so i would encourage

families— information, so i would encourage families to — information, so i would encourage families to engage _ information, so i would encourage families to engage with _ information, so i would encourage families to engage with the - families to engage with the commission. _ families to engage with the commission. and _ families to engage with the commission. and when- families to engage with the commission. and when wei families to engage with the - commission. and when we began kenova. — commission. and when we began kenova. i— commission. and when we began kenova, i remember— commission. and when we began kenova, i remember going- commission. and when we began kenova, i remember going to - commission. and when we began- kenova, i remember going to meetings with groups _ kenova, i remember going to meetings with groups of — kenova, i remember going to meetings with groups of families _ kenova, i remember going to meetings with groups of families who _ kenova, i remember going to meetings with groups of families who had - with groups of families who had never— with groups of families who had never met— with groups of families who had never met before _ with groups of families who had never met before and _ with groups of families who had never met before and in - with groups of families who had never met before and in one - never met before and in one particular— never met before and in one particular meeting _ never met before and in one particular meeting in - never met before and in one particular meeting in a - never met before and in one - particular meeting in a solicitor's office. _ particular meeting in a solicitor's office. we — particular meeting in a solicitor's office. we got— particular meeting in a solicitor's office, we got shouted _ particular meeting in a solicitor's office, we got shouted out- particular meeting in a solicitor's office, we got shouted out quite| particular meeting in a solicitor'sl office, we got shouted out quite a lot because — office, we got shouted out quite a lot because no—one _ office, we got shouted out quite a lot because no—one knew- office, we got shouted out quite a lot because no—one knew who - office, we got shouted out quite a lot because no—one knew who we| office, we got shouted out quite a - lot because no—one knew who we were and they— lot because no—one knew who we were and they had _ lot because no—one knew who we were and they had been— lot because no—one knew who we were and they had been let _ lot because no—one knew who we were and they had been let down _ lot because no—one knew who we were and they had been let down so - lot because no—one knew who we were and they had been let down so often, i and they had been let down so often, they thought — and they had been let down so often, they thought this _ and they had been let down so often, they thought this was _ and they had been let down so often, they thought this was another- they thought this was another artificial— they thought this was another artificial investigation - they thought this was another artificial investigation that - they thought this was another. artificial investigation that would io artificial investigation that would go nowhere~ _ artificial investigation that would go nowhere. what— artificial investigation that would go nowhere. what i— artificial investigation that would go nowhere. what i would - artificial investigation that would i go nowhere. what i would appeal artificial investigation that would - go nowhere. what i would appeal for families— go nowhere. what i would appeal for families to _ go nowhere. what i would appeal for families to do — go nowhere. what i would appeal for families to do is _ go nowhere. what i would appeal for families to do is give _ go nowhere. what i would appeal for families to do is give the _ families to do is give the commission— families to do is give the commission a _ families to do is give the commission a chance - families to do is give the commission a chance toi families to do is give the . commission a chance to do families to do is give the - commission a chance to do its families to do is give the _ commission a chance to do its work. but i'm _ commission a chance to do its work. but i'm very— commission a chance to do its work. but i'm very conscious _ commission a chance to do its work. but i'm very conscious of— commission a chance to do its work. but i'm very conscious of the - but i'm very conscious of the concerns _ but i'm very conscious of the concerns that _ but i'm very conscious of the concerns that families - but i'm very conscious of the concerns that families and i but i'm very conscious of the - concerns that families and victims groups— concerns that families and victims groups have — concerns that families and victims groups have about _ concerns that families and victims groups have about the _ concerns that families and victimsl groups have about the commission concerns that families and victims - groups have about the commission but i remember— groups have about the commission but irememberall— groups have about the commission but i rememberallthe _ groups have about the commission but i remember all the scepticism - groups have about the commission but i remember all the scepticism about. i remember all the scepticism about operation _ i remember all the scepticism about operation kenova. _ i remember all the scepticism about operation kenova. and _ i remember all the scepticism about operation kenova. and i— i remember all the scepticism about operation kenova. and i don't - i remember all the scepticism about operation kenova. and i don't think| operation kenova. and i don't think there _ operation kenova. and i don't think there is— operation kenova. and i don't think there is any— operation kenova. and i don't think there is any alternative, _ operation kenova. and i don't think there is any alternative, unless - there is any alternative, unless someone — there is any alternative, unless someone can— there is any alternative, unless someone can point— there is any alternative, unless someone can point me - there is any alternative, unless someone can point me to- there is any alternative, unless - someone can point me to something, at the _ someone can point me to something, at the moment— someone can point me to something, at the moment with _ someone can point me to something, at the moment with regards - someone can point me to something, at the moment with regards to - at the moment with regards to families— at the moment with regards to families getting _ at the moment with regards to families getting any _ at the moment with regards to. families getting any information through— families getting any information through that _ families getting any information through that sort _ families getting any information through that sort of _ families getting any information

through that sort of process. i families getting any information through that sort of process. til families getting any information . through that sort of process. tit loll through that sort of process. a lot ofthe through that sort of process. a lot of the questions _ through that sort of process. a lot of the questions today _ through that sort of process. hit of the questions today about through that sort of process.- of the questions today about values of the questions today about values of the questions today about values of the state and there seems to be some sympathy for the prosecutors are maybe did not have enough time to bring prosecutions. that may be the case, is it correct to characterise the findings about security forces and intelligence... but after this penetration of 30 years of murder and mayhem in society, do you think security forces and terrace are culpable? firstly, about the public prosecutions _ firstly, about the public prosecutions service, i firstly, about the public- prosecutions service, those files were _ prosecutions service, those files were with — prosecutions service, those files were with the _ prosecutions service, those files were with the public— prosecutions service, those filesl were with the public prosecutions service _ were with the public prosecutions service for— were with the public prosecutions service for a _ were with the public prosecutions service for a very _ were with the public prosecutions service for a very long _ were with the public prosecutions service for a very long time - were with the public prosecutions service for a very long time but . service for a very long time but those _ service for a very long time but those looking _ service for a very long time but those looking at _ service for a very long time but those looking at those - service for a very long time but those looking at those files, i service for a very long time but those looking at those files, asj service for a very long time butl those looking at those files, as i understand _ those looking at those files, as i understand it, _ those looking at those files, as i understand it, were _ those looking at those files, as i understand it, were engaged - those looking at those files, as i understand it, were engaged ini those looking at those files, as i. understand it, were engaged in lots of other— understand it, were engaged in lots of other work—

understand it, were engaged in lots of other work they _ understand it, were engaged in lots of other work they had _ understand it, were engaged in lots of other work they had to _ understand it, were engaged in lots of other work they had to do. - of other work they had to do. because _ of other work they had to do. because of— of other work they had to do. because of the _ of other work they had to do. because of the bandwidth - of other work they had to do. because of the bandwidth ofi of other work they had to do. - because of the bandwidth of those lawyers. _ because of the bandwidth of those lawyers. they— because of the bandwidth of those lawyers, they didn't _ because of the bandwidth of those lawyers, they didn't have - because of the bandwidth of those lawyers, they didn't have the - because of the bandwidth of those lawyers, they didn't have the time| lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate — lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate to _ lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate to look— lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate to look at _ lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate to look at those - lawyers, they didn't have the time to dedicate to look at those files i to dedicate to look at those files in a consistent, _ to dedicate to look at those files in a consistent, protracted - to dedicate to look at those filesl in a consistent, protracted white. they— in a consistent, protracted white. they were — in a consistent, protracted white. they were constantly _ in a consistent, protracted white. they were constantly having - in a consistent, protracted white. they were constantly having to i they were constantly having to revisit — they were constantly having to revisit the _ they were constantly having to revisit the files _ they were constantly having to revisit the files when _ they were constantly having to revisit the files when they - revisit the files when they literally _ revisit the files when they literally had _ revisit the files when they literally had some - revisit the files when they literally had some spare l revisit the files when they - literally had some spare time. again. — literally had some spare time. again. i— literally had some spare time. again. ithink. _ literally had some spare time. again, ithink, is— literally had some spare time. again, i think, is a _ literally had some spare time. again, i think, is a reflection. literally had some spare time. i again, i think, is a reflection on the challenges _ again, i think, is a reflection on the challenges that _ again, i think, is a reflection on the challenges that are - again, i think, is a reflection on the challenges that are been i again, i think, is a reflection on. the challenges that are been fazed by legacy— the challenges that are been fazed by legacy families. _ the challenges that are been fazed by legacy families. with _ the challenges that are been fazed by legacy families. with regards . the challenges that are been fazedj by legacy families. with regards to culpability. — by legacy families. with regards to culpability. if— by legacy families. with regards to culpability. if i _ by legacy families. with regards to culpability, if i understand - by legacy families. with regards to culpability, if i understand your- culpability, if i understand your question— culpability, if i understand your question correctly, _ culpability, if i understand your question correctly, i— culpability, if i understand your question correctly, i want - culpability, if i understand your question correctly, i want to i culpability, if i understand your. question correctly, i want to make clear— question correctly, i want to make clear the _ question correctly, i want to make clear the sacrifices— question correctly, i want to make clear the sacrifices and, _ question correctly, i want to make clear the sacrifices and, again, - clear the sacrifices and, again, please — clear the sacrifices and, again, please read _ clear the sacrifices and, again, please read the _ clear the sacrifices and, again, please read the report - clear the sacrifices and, again, please read the report in- clear the sacrifices and, again, please read the report in morej please read the report in more detail— please read the report in more detail at— please read the report in more detail at another— please read the report in more detail at another time... - please read the report in more detail at another time. .. we're auoin to detail at another time. .. we're going to leave _ detail at another time. .. we're going to leave that _ detail at another time. .. we're going to leave that press - detail at another time. .. we're - going to leave that press conference there by chief constablejohn butcher there which after a £40 million investigation which has lasted seven years that they must get a british army spy operating at the ira during the troubles are probably cost more lives than he saved. we will carry on getting

updates online on that story but now we will give you an update on the weather picture. hello. our reasonably dry and settled spell of weather continues for another couple of days. things do turn a little more unsettled as we head into the weekend, but certainly for today, a pretty chilly wind coming in from an easterly direction, but most of us should see some spells of sunshine. early cold air mass with us. we've got high pressure to the north and the low pressure to the south—west, and that combination is drawing in these fairly brisk winds from the near continent. i think the best of the sunshine today will be across parts of east anglia, southern england, also west wales. but where we've had a lot of cloud over recent days, so north—east england and eastern scotland, we've still got the cloud but it's tending to be a little bit thinner, so some brighter intervals breaking through. these are the gusts of wind we are likely to see, so 30, possibly 40 miles an hour, the windiest weather down towards the far south—west. we could see some big waves around some of the coasts as well. 6 or 7 degrees in the north—east, 10 or 11 towards the south. but wherever you are,

it's going to feel a touch colder when you add on that wind chill. most of us, dry tonight, a little bit of low cloud drifting north. but some rain, as you can see, across parts of central and southern england, into wales, by first thing tomorrow. so with more cloud and that wet weather, it won't be as cold here as it was last night, but we are still expecting a touch of frost, i think, across the sheltered glens of central scotland. now, into saturday, high pressure to the north, low pressure to the south. we've still got that easterly wind. that low pressure will bring some showery rain, particularly for parts of wales, perhaps the midlands. a few splashes into northern ireland as well. nothing particularly heavy. any of that rain will be quite showery in nature. more moving into the far south—west with blustery winds later in the day. but elsewhere, actually a fair amount of dry, bright weather, some sunny spells. 13 degrees or so for london, but only 6 in aberdeen. into the second half of the weekend, and that low stays with us towards the south. this frontal system just pushes a bit further north, so i think by sunday we could see some slightly more persistent rain, initially for southern and eastern parts of england, drifting across other parts of england and wales. probably the best of any brighter weather will be in scotland and northern ireland, towards the far north—west.

but still a few showers possible here. just 5—11 degrees, so a little below par for the time of year, feeling chilly with the wind and the rain around for some of us too. but that low pressure eventually drifts off towards the east as we head through the day on monday. a ridge of high pressure working in behind it, so i think we'll see a little bit of a drier interlude but there will be plenty of rain symbols, as you can see on the outlook charts here. so a bit of a mixed picture but things turn a little bit milder into next week. bye— bye. live from london, this is bbc news. as gaza grows increasingly desperate for aid, a humanitarian sea corridor should begin operating by sunday. —— this weekend. an investigation finds the ira's top —— the top spy probably caused more deaths during the troubles than

lives he saved.