welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. diplomatic efforts to stop or at least pause the war in gaza are not working. every new day intensifies the suffering of the 100 or so israeli hostages being held in gaza and the more than 2 million palestinians, mostly displaced and desperately short of food, water and health care. a ship carrying aid has set out from cyprus. the americans are talking of building a landing pier. but if the gaza war is a test of international crisis management, then it hardly looks like a success. my guest is the palestinian ambassador at the united nations, riyad mansour. does diplomacy offer any glimmer of hope? ambassador riyad mansour at the un in new york, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you. thank you for having me. it's a pleasure to have you on the programme. ambassador, do you have any hope left that talks can achieve a stop or at least a suspension to the war in gaza? i still have hope. and that's what drives me to work harder with all of my colleagues, to succeed in putting an end to this war, to have a ceasefire, and to be able to send humanitarian assistance up to the needs

of the people in the gaza strip and to prevent a forced mass transfer to egypt. i mean, nobody would doubt that, for the 2 million and more palestinians who live in gaza and of course the 100 or so hostages who are being held in the tunnels in gaza as well, every day is a day of extreme suffering. the problem is, if one looks at the talks and what is being said about the talks, there appears to be very little ground for optimism. for example, the israelis say no way will they even countenance a stop to their military operations until hamas provides a full list of those hostages who are still being held. are you trying to get hamas to issue such a list?

i am not involved in any of these negotiations. my work is here at the un. there is no justification whatsoever for the continuation of killing so many palestinians. palestinians, children and women. we cross the 30,000 of those who were killed and more than 75,000 injured. most of them, 70% of them, are women and children. my work is to try to stop this killing against the entire palestinian population in the gaza strip. this is what i do day and night in order to accomplish that objective. you point to the scale of death and destruction in gaza, and it is truly appalling, and as you said, the hamas—run health ministry now says the death ministry now says the death toll in gaza has gone beyond 31,000, and they say the majority of those are women and children. but i just ask you again, as an experienced diplomat, how do you think israel could justify to its people stopping its military operations in gaza,

when a senior hamas spokesman, who speaks for the al-qassam brigades, the military wing of hamas, abu 0beida, just says in the last few days, quote, "as muslims prepare worldwide to welcome ramadan, "we offer a sacrifice to allah, "a cascade of pure blood and pure souls. "we welcome the peak of islamic zeal, jihad and combat"? in other words, hamas is saying their determination to continue the existential war with israel goes on. if israel is serious about really avoiding killing this massive number of palestinian civilians, there are regulations and laws, international humanitarian law, that would regulate their behaviour, vis a vis the civilian population in the gaza strip. israel is violating all of these provisions.

in fact, the international court ofjustice, the highest court recognised by the international community, requested from them...not requested, demanded from them to abide by implementing six provisional measures to save lives of civilians, including providing them with food, with water, with medicine, with protection. israel is violating these provisions, therefore, the israeli government is conducting this war of genocide against the entire population of the gaza strip. this is what we concentrate on, and israel can very easily not go bombarding houses with dozens of civilians, members of the same family in these houses, and killing all of them. and there are so many of these massacres that have taken place. israel, of course, absolutely rejects and refutes that use

of the word genocide, but as you point out, the international court ofjustice is now hearing south africa's case, based on that genocide provision. so, ijust wonder, at the un, when you look at what is happening on the ground in terms of, for example, food supply to keep the people of gaza alive and to avoid famine and starvation, do you see the international community making satisfactory effort to ensure that basic food assistance reaches the people? the international community can do more than that. but the main obstacle facing us... ..that all the crossings are not open to scale. the israeli side, whether on the rafah crossing and i assume also in karem abu salem crossing, they are not opening

all the crossings. they are putting so many difficulties in the path of verification of what is in these truckloads. the end results — there is a small number of truckloads being allowed to cross. secondly, the international humanitarian organisation, led by unrwa, which has the capability of distributing humanitarian assistance to all people in gaza, including the north, cannot do it while they are being exposed to bombardment from the skies, from artilleries. they cannot operate this way while war is taking place. so, if there is a ceasefire... as you know, the united states and a number of western governments have suspended their financial support to unwra because of israel's allegations that a significant number of unwra officials were associated with hamas.

we are grateful for the number of countries that reverse their decision, including the european union, canada, sweden, and those who did not suspend some of their assistance in the first place, doubled or increased their assistance. i believe the financial situation of unrwa is, in its way, to be dealt with. what is now, israel is trying to do to destroy unrwa politically. unrwa has a mandate almost unanimously supported by the general assembly. when they renew the mandate the last time was 176 votes against one that voted against the renewal of the mandate, which is israel. so, this organisation, which is a tremendous, noble organisation, has been working for 75 years, providing humanitarian assistance to the palestinian people

in an impeccable way. it is the most successful story of the united nations. all right. so, therefore, this organisation will remain in place. that's your view on unwra, which is clearly different from the israelis�*. but the united states and in particular, presidentjoe biden, while saying that, in his view, far too many civilians have been killed in gaza, rather than restore support for unwra, what the americans are now proposing to do... well, number one, they've launched a limited airlift of food. and, tragically, we know that at least one of those airlifts ended in the death of a number of palestinians who were hit by a pallet that landed upon them. and also, biden�*s announced that us military engineers are going to build some sort of dock or pier off the coast of gaza to allow shipments to come in by sea. i wonder what you,

as a diplomat at the un, make of these american workarounds, which they say will get aid into gaza. let me say two things. the first thing is that there are other leaders, including the director of the cia, who is saying that you cannot address the acute starvation situation of palestinians in gaza without having a massive amount of aid through a land crossing. so, he's asking for opening the crossings and allowing for a mass number of trucks to get in. the second thing he's saying, you cannot distribute this massive number of aid that reach the...you know, that elevate itself to the level of the needs of the palestinian people without a ceasefire. having said that, which is number one, let me also say that the palestinian leadership welcome assistance to our people in all parts of gaza

in any way possible, provided that it will not allow prime minister netanyahu to try to show that there is an alternative to unrwa and the un. there is no alternative to unrwa and the un — they have the experience, they have the capability, they have the 13,000 employees who are part of the palestinian people in the gaza strip that are capable of carrying, in a very efficient and effective way, the task of distributing humanitarian assistance to all parts of the gaza strip. ambassador, let me ask you specifically about the situation in rafah. hundreds of thousands of people, palestinians, are sheltering in encampments around and in rafah because they've been forced from their homes in other parts of the gaza strip. netanyahu, the prime minister of israel, says that he will press on with military operations right

into the heart of rafah. he says that that offensive is a red line, which he will not accept any pressure to stop, because it's vital, he says, for israel's security interests and to eliminate hamas. would you accept that, in a pure humanitarian necessity, if that happens, if the israelis push on and do that against america's advice, then the egyptians will have to open the border to allow people to flee for their lives? would you accept that? the plan of netanyahu and the israeli government is to depopulate gaza. they told the people from the north to move to the centre, and then they told them to move from khan yunis to the south. the intentions of the israeli government, or the plan, is to create a bubble in the southern part

of the gaza strip around rafah, and then, when they storm rafah, they give the palestinian people no chance but to try to storm the borders with egypt and to flee to egypt, and therefore to create a second intifada for the palestinian people and for the israeli government to accomplish the objective which they announced even, you know, from the year 2017 that they want to destroy the national rights of the palestinian people. so, depopulating the gaza strip would be a significant step in that direction and therefore it will follow... so, as a diplomat, what would your message to egypt be? what would your message to egypt be? these are terrible circumstances. right. egypt is standing very firmly, and they send through many channels that if israel's to take that step, then that would constitute

a fundamental change in the situation there, including hinting about the status of the agreement between them and israel dated to the camp david agreement. and god knows what will ensue if that agreement�*s to be cancelled and to go back to the situation of war between egypt and israel. and i think the american side understand this danger of potentially escalating the war to a level higher, much higher, than what we see. and i hope the americans succeed, based on that firm, strong position of egypt that israel's not to invade... ..to invade rafah and to avoid such a catastrophe. let me ask you bluntly, what do you think of the biden administration's handling of this handling of this war

and this massive humanitarian crisis? it is in their power to stop this war immediately, whether there is a security council resolution or not. in this holy month of ramadan, in which traditionally, from the time even before islam, when people used to fight, there were periods of time that they honour and respect and they don't fight. even in the case of ukraine, a ceasefire, temporary ceasefire, was organised during christmas. in these holy months, such as the month of ramadan, it is...it is within the grasp of the united states administration to force israel to stop the fighting and to spare the lives of our people in this holy month while they are continuing to negotiate — in cairo, in doha and in other places — the deal they are talking about between them and hamas.

ceasefire is needed, and it should be taking place immediately to save lives — here, palestinian lives of children and women. ambassador, you've now had five months and more to reflect on the disaster that has befallen gaza since october 7. and, of course, you know as well as i do that, on october 7, hamas launched a murderous attack on southern israel, which killed more than 1,000 people. how does it make sense, and how is it in the palestinian people's interest, for the palestinians that you speak for... ? and i know you said you speak for the palestinian state, but in essence, you speak for the palestinian authority. how does it make sense for people from the palestinian authority, from fatah, to go to moscow to hold talks under russian auspices with hamas and talk about forming

a unified palestinian front? hamas has brought a disaster upon the palestinian people. it continues to talk about all—out war with israel. why would you seek an alliance with hamas? well, let me first of all say that, these days, because of what happened, the horror of what happened to us as palestinians during these five months of aggression against our civilian population in the gaza strip, these are the most painful months in my history and in my life. it pains me every day. it's torn me... it's tearing me apart. every day, i think of what is happening to the children of gaza and to the women and to the civilians. and also, at the same time, we are a society like all other societies. we have so many political organisations. some, they have views,

in european terms, extreme right, and others have views to the left, and there are in the centre. it is within our national interest to put our house in order and to try to unify our ranks and to deal with all of the issues facing us and the challenges facing us, not only putting an end to this aggression against us, but also to be ready for attending to the wounds inflicted on us in the gaza strip and beginning the process of rebuilding gaza. gaza is so precious to us. if i may say so, ambassador, isn't the truth of it that what we see is simply a product of the palestinian authority's weakness and lack of credibility with its own people? that's why the palestinian authority is trying to sort of reach out to hamas, to come up with a united palestinian front, because all of the opinion polling evidence from both the west bank

and from gaza shows that the palestinian people support hamas�*s military action, refuse to recognise what hamas did on october 7 as war crimes, and because of that, frankly, mahmoud abbas and the leadership of the palestinian authority cannot do anything but try to somehow form an alliance with hamas. let me just say that, before october 7 and after october 7, it is within the national interest of the palestinian people to put our house in order and to unify our ranks. but, ambassador, what does that mean? we have a senior hamas official, ghazi hamad, saying that the, quote, "al—aqsa flood operation is just the first. "there'll be a second, a third, a fourth." that's hamas�*s world view. how can you say, "we need to put the palestinian house in order," and then tell me that,

"yeah, that involves bringing hamas in." what kind of future does that give the palestinian people? let me just repeat, it has been egypt, algeria, russia, qatar, and many other arab countries who have been working with us for years in order to try to put our house in order. i remember very vividly when the uk ambassador at the un used to lecture me in the security council meeting, "you palestinians put your house in order, "unify your ranks." "you palestinians put your house in order, unify your ranks." i did not want the uk ambassador to tell me that. i'm just telling you what is in the interest of the palestinian people. we appreciate all those who are helping us to put our house in order. and it is the most important interest of the palestinian people to put our house in order, and i hope we succeed,

and i hope we succeed soon, especially after we put an end to this aggression against our people in the gaza strip. you sit at the united nations, you talk to your counterparts from the united states, from the arab states, including the gulf arab nations, including saudi arabia. they all talk about a two—state solution, and yet i see no prospect that a two—state solution can work because it appears you seem to believe that would have to involve hamas. and, on the israeli side, the far—right—wing government, led by benjamin netanyahu, dismisses any notion of a palestinian state. so all this talk of a two—state solution, it'sjust a mirage, isn't it? let me just say two things. first of all, it was the international community in 19117 that decided to partition palestine to two states. that was the position

of the general assembly. and it is the international community, unanimously in the security council, that they say the only solution is the two—state solution. so that's not the position of the state of palestine alone. therefore what we are saying, it is not up to israel to decide the fate of the two—state solution — in this case, the fate of the state of palestine. it is the international community with the responsibility to address that issue. this occupation has to end. the state of palestine has to become independent, as on the 11th ofjune of 1967, with eastjerusalem as its capital, and the issue of the refugees need to be resolved on the basis of international law and un resolutions. these are the positions of the international community and therefore we will be marching to the security council soon in order to tell

the security council, "you are unified around the two—state solution. "we ask you now to admit the state of palestine to membership "as an investment in peace "and as an investment in saving the two—state solution." i hope the security council to act on the basis of this unanimous position on the two—state solution by allowing us to become a member state. so, two states, member of the united nations... ambassador. ..will deal... ambassador. ..with the issues in the international conference to implement the two—state solution. ambassador, that you know as well as i do, the likelihood of the united states right now deciding to formally recognise the palestinian state at the united nations is zero. that's the truth. no. i hope that they would be influenced by foreign minister, er...cameron, who is saying that it is high time for the recognition of the state

of palestine, including... all right. ..at the united nations. we have to end there, ambassador. but, riyad mansour, i do thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. you're very welcome. hello there. the rain has been pouring down on wednesday in snowdonia, in wales — there was about a third of a month's worth of rain injust 12 hours. things are not looking quite so dramatic over the next few days. there will be some further wet weather, rain or showers, and for many parts of the country,

it's going to be mild — particularly across england and wales, where we've seen the milder air coming from a long way south. things are a little bit chillier to the north, in northern scotland. in between, we've got the weather front — that's been bringing the rain, but that's moving northwards, taking wet weather into scotland and northern ireland. there's the wet weather that we've got in northern ireland and southern scotland — that moves its way northwards. for england and wales, there may be a bit more sunshine arriving in a southerly breeze before those showers push across from the west. but we're introducing some slightly drier airfrom france — hence the cloud breaking up more than it did on wednesday, and so temperatures could reach 16, even 17 celsius. quite chilly underneath that rain, though, in the central belt of scotland. and that wet weather is still around as we head into thursday evening. that low pressure will slowly pull away — we've got another one waiting in the wings here as we head towards the weekend. but this is how friday looks — and we've got wet weather in scotland sinking into northern england, a bit of snow over the mountains. we see some heavier showers developing further south, particularly in the southeast of england, with the risk of thunder. drier, though, for northern ireland are becoming drier in scotland, but we're getting a northerly wind

here — hence the temperatures will be dropping a bit through the day. won't be quite as warm in the southeast, but still temperatures of 13—14 celsius. as that area of low pressure moves away, things will calm downjust for a while before the next weather system pushes in from the atlantic. but ahead of that, we'll have clear skies and light winds, so it's going to be cold. and there may be a frost around as well, particularly in scotland, with temperatures down as low as —3 or so. and there may be 1—2 mist and fog patches, too — but those will lift. we'll have some sunshine for a while, but we've got the weather system coming in from the atlantic — the cloud will tend to increase, rain for northern ireland coming into southwest scotland, wales, and the southwest of england. eastern areas still generally dry, but after that cold start, it'll only be around 7 celsius in northeast scotland. most of the rain over the weekend will actually be on saturday night. and then, as we head into the early part of next week, it looks like it

could be a bit drier, and it should stay on the mild side.

welcome to newsday. reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines... five people are killed in an explosion at a un warehouse in rafah, in

southern gaza. we speak to the family of a 12—year—old palestinian boy who was holding a firework, and was shot dead by israeli forces in east jerusalem. the uk prime minister says he won't return millions of pounds from a tory donor accused of racism towards mp diane abbott. tiktok says it will do everything it can to prevent a us ban on the social media platform after a vote in the house. and we have a special report from the demilitarised zone — the stretch of no—man�*s land between the two koreas — to meet the few people who still live there. live from our studio in singapore. this is bbc news. it's newsday. we begin this hour in the middle east — where more details are emerging of an explosion at a un relief agency warehouse in rafah, in southern gaza.

at least five people were killed — including one