steve harley and cockney rebel, and make me smile. it wasn'tjust a huge hit, it was one of those songs that never seems to have gone away. and right from the beginning, there was a feeling about it. they always ask me, did you know at the time that it would be a big hit? actually, we did think it would be. i knew the managing director of emi at the time who came to abbey road where i was mixing it. he said, "number one." and i said to him, "0k, can i hold you to that?" he said, "yeah." # mr soft, turn around and force the world to watch the things you're going through. ..# during his �*70s heyday, there was more than a touch of glam theatricality and single—mindedness. some of that determination grew out of his childhood. polio had kept him in hospitalfor years.

at three—and—a—half years old, here, i caught polio. there was an epidemic at that time. they said, "stephen won't live through this." but during those years in and out of hospital, he developed a passion for music, and after a spell as a journalist, he began trying out his songs at folk clubs before finally hitting the big time. but when his chart success began to slide, his attention shifted to another musical avenue. # sing once again with me...# he was given the chance to record the single for andrew lloyd webber�*s phantom of the opera, but he was devastated when he wasn't chosen to play the role for the west end. # you've done it all, broken every code...# nevertheless, he continued to perform. the effects of his childhood polio were lifelong, but onstage in the spotlight he said it was the one place he could forget

it all and simply be steve harley, the rock star. # ooh—ooh, la—la—la. ..# that is david sillito looking back at the life of steve harley, the front man of cockney rebel who has died at the age of 73. in other news, charles spencer, the brother of princess diana has written a book in which he describes violent and sexual abuse at the boarding school he was sent to when he was just 80s old. he also reveals how he and diana were hurt by one of their nannies, nanny forster, as children. laura kuenssberg went to meet him and asked him about his first day at the school. i and asked him about his first day at the school. , , ~ ., the school. i remember the shock of the school. i remember the shock of the journey — the school. i remember the shock of the journey that _ the school. i remember the shock of the journey that day _ the school. i remember the shock of the journey that day and _ the school. i remember the shock of the journey that day and been - the journey that day and been dropped there by my father. a very sweet, decent, loving man. i look back and i know he hated doing it. in fact, he told me that was the

worst day of his fathering for me. i went back through my family records and a lot of people who lived here, over 300 years, you can see this conspiracy amongst the adults, they knew how brutal it was going to be for the little boy is being sent away. i don't blame my parents or any of the other parents for thinking it was the done thing at that time. i think the idea was that it was essential to blend with people from similar backgrounds and to take the hard knock, the real brutal heartbreaker, being sent away from home and in return you are going to be privileged and part of a set that you could rely on for the rest of your life.— set that you could rely on for the rest of your life. you say you felt cast out by _ rest of your life. you say you felt cast out by your _ rest of your life. you say you felt cast out by your family, - rest of your life. you say you felt cast out by your family, though? j cast out by your family, though? does that feeling ever go away? i think one of the things i had, actually, when my letters home and i see this thing when i read them that i was always apologising and i think i was always apologising and i think i know that that was because the

only way i could make sense of being sent to boarding school at such a vulnerable age was that i must have failed somehow as a son and i don't think any child should really have to feel that. think any child should really have to feel that-— think any child should really have to feel that. even before you were sent away to _ to feel that. even before you were sent away to school, _ to feel that. even before you were sent away to school, you - to feel that. even before you were sent away to school, you talk - to feel that. even before you were l sent away to school, you talk about some elements of your upbringing. you talk also about one of the nannies that looked after you and your sister banging your heads together painfully, that kind of discipline and violence, do think that element of that at home had an effect on you and your sister before you even sent away? i effect on you and your sister before you even sent away?— you even sent away? i think that really damaging _ you even sent away? i think that really damaging violence - you even sent away? i think that really damaging violence to - you even sent away? i think that . really damaging violence to children is going to affect them, whatever house they come from, whatever family they are born into. that nanny who did that to us, i mean, she used to crack our heads together if we were both found to have done something naughty. 0bviously without my father's knowledge, but it really hurt. it wasn't a tap on the wrist, it was a cracking crunch and i

remember it still. i have two older sisters and only later was it found out that a different nanny was punishing them by ladling laxatives down them and my parents couldn't work out why they were constantly ill. you are dealing with a very unstructured world of privileged parents living parallel lives to their children. but parents living parallel lives to their children.— parents living parallel lives to their children. but you and diana and our their children. but you and diana and your other _ their children. but you and diana and your other sisters _ their children. but you and diana and your other sisters were - their children. but you and diana and your other sisters were then | and your other sisters were then brought up even in a home environment where staff, nannies hired to look after you, were hurting you. hired to look after you, were hurting you-— hired to look after you, were hurtin: ou. �* . ., �* ,, hurting you. again, i don't think we realised that _ hurting you. again, i don't think we realised that that _ hurting you. again, i don't think we realised that that was _ hurting you. again, i don't think we realised that that was wrong. - hurting you. again, i don't think we realised that that was wrong. we i realised that that was wrong. we knew it was painful and we knew it was something we wanted to avoid, but i think children don't know morality necessarily at that stage or certainly the law. so it was something that we lived with. let’s something that we lived with. let's talk then about _ something that we lived with. let's talk then about when _ something that we lived with. let's talk then about when you arrived at school. in the book, page after page after page describes

terrible violence what seems clearly like forms of paedophilia, terrible abuse and you set it out compellingly, brutally and very honestly. is there a moment in amongst all of that that particularly haunts you? why i called it a _ particularly haunts you? why i called it a very _ particularly haunts you? why i called it a very private - particularly haunts you? why i called it a very private schooll particularly haunts you? why i i called it a very private school was because it was dominated by a particular figure, because it was dominated by a particularfigure, the headmaster. particular figure, the headmaster. he particularfigure, the headmaster. he closed down the school to the outside world. he constructed his dreamworld of having little boys at his beck and call for sadistic thrushes and sexual thrills. if i look at one incident, it seems so minor, but if i look at the catalogue of horrible things that happened, was this chilling moment where he caught us all in my dormitory and the sheer rattling joy

in his voice as he called us over for a thrashing. i was beaten lots of times, but there was one particular beating which was so violent and painful that i had to deal with that separately as a therapeutic session 20, 30 years later because it was so shocking. you just said, oh, later because it was so shocking. youjust said, oh, it later because it was so shocking. you just said, oh, it was a minor thing. it's not a minor thing. you just said, oh, it was a minor thing. it's nota minorthing. fora young man to be thrashed violently by an adult, a strong man. he young man to be thrashed violently by an adult, a strong man.- by an adult, a strong man. he was addicted to... — by an adult, a strong man. he was addicted to... no, _ by an adult, a strong man. he was addicted to... no, he _ by an adult, a strong man. he was addicted to... no, he very - by an adult, a strong man. he was addicted to... no, he very much . addicted to... no, he very much enjoyed hurting little boys and his trick was using a cane, he had various canes with their own names, and his signature was cutting the buttocks with five strokes and then putting the 61 across the five. there was something about the focused aggression and what i would

now call sexual gratification that came through, that's what shook me. there was also, though, sexual abuse actually from a female staff member. you were groomed? yes. is an 11-year-old — you were groomed? yes. is an 11-year-old. she _ you were groomed? yes. is an 11-year-old. she was - you were groomed? yes. is an 11-year-old. she was an - you were groomed? yes is an 11—year—old. she was an assistant matron at this school, twice your age, someone who should be able to trust. what happened and what effect did that have on your later years? to set context, that was a school without feminine touch at all. there was one very tough, deeply aggressive matron in charge of the matronly things, clothes, etc. it seemed so wonderful to have a youngerfemale member of seemed so wonderful to have a younger female member of staff who was 20 and i remember i was sent half way through a term to a dormitoryjust outside her room in the attics and she started by giving... what she had suites for you? suites, grapes, biscuits, that

sort of thing and then she started seducing me and others actually but as far as i was concerned, i was suddenly the focus of some feminine warmth and it started with lots of long, long kisses of a sort i didn't really understand at all. french kissing wasn't something i knew anything about. and then it progressed further and i have to say, and i don't know, i haven't talked to many victims of sexual abuse at a young age, it was almost abuse at a young age, it was almost a thrilling secret. i didn't know how wrong it was, i certainly didn't know it was a crime. it is incredible _ know it was a crime. it is incredible to _ know it was a crime. it is incredible to imagine - know it was a crime. it is| incredible to imagine that know it was a crime. it is incredible to imagine that nobody knew. that nobody told. what was it like living in that culture of secrecy? did you think about telling other people? did you think about telling your parents? did you think about telling other people in your life? ., �* ., , ., life? you're right, there was a culture of— life? you're right, there was a culture of secrecy _ life? you're right, there was a culture of secrecy and - life? you're right, there was a l culture of secrecy and alongside that, run a very strong, i think the biggest unwritten rule in the school

was don't tell tales. of course, thatis was don't tell tales. of course, that is very self—serving for an abusive environment and i actually felt even writing this book, i felt occasions when my conscience said, you're sneaking, you're telling tales on the school, even now a few decades on. it came from backgrounds, conversations with parents were not as they would be on the hold today. i didn't tell anyone until, in fact, the first family member is i told my two surviving sisters who are in their mid to late 60s and that was about a year and a half ago because i thought i better warn them what was going to come out in this book and they were absolutely stunned. in this book and they were absolutel stunned. , ., absolutely stunned. something you write in the book _ absolutely stunned. something you write in the book is _ absolutely stunned. something you write in the book is that _ absolutely stunned. something you write in the book is that when - absolutely stunned. something you| write in the book is that when diana was being sent away to school, she said to your father, if you loved me, you wouldn't leave me here. do you think she was also hurt or affected by being sent away? first of all, affected by being sent away? first of all. i'm so _ affected by being sent away? first of all, i'm so proud _ affected by being sent away? first of all, i'm so proud of— affected by being sent away? f "st of all, i'm so proud of her for of all, i'm so proud of herfor saying that. it is so incredibly impactful to the point that my father remembered it. i would say

that any child i believe under teenage years, under 13, that any child i believe under teenage years, under13, i that any child i believe under teenage years, under 13, i don't think they should be sent away. i don't think it's fair. i don't think they can possibly understand what is going on. there are a lot of teenagers who think, great, i want to get away from my parents and that's fine. of course, it is a personal decision, but i don't think any child personally should be sent away before they hit puberty. iddhen away before they hit puberty. when ou were away before they hit puberty. when you were there _ away before they hit puberty. when you were there in _ away before they hit puberty. when you were there in that _ away before they hit puberty. when you were there in that terrible environment, you write about how you were self harming, you are making yourself sick, it was very poignant to read of that, of course, also with people being aware of what diana went through. did you ever discuss those experiences with her? no. i've not been diagnosed with anything from that time but it is quite clear to me i had bulimia at one stage and mine was very much connected to a need some attention.

i sit in the book, ice felt like i was drowning in an adult sea. we had a metal chamber pots under our bed in case we were sick and and i used to make myself vomit and i would it to make myself vomit and i would it to the matron to show her and it was, i realise, a complete cry for attention and help and i never discussed that mental illness things... certainly, we grew up together. i don't remember ever discussing anything from boarding school at all. is. discussing anything from boarding school at all.— discussing anything from boarding schoolat all. . ., , . ., school at all. g, though, has such a reputation — school at all. g, though, has such a reputation for _ school at all. g, though, has such a reputation for being _ school at all. g, though, has such a reputation for being able _ school at all. g, though, has such a reputation for being able to - school at all. g, though, has such a reputation for being able to show i reputation for being able to show incredible empathy —— she, though. what do you think she would make of this now, knowing what you went through as a young boy? as a tiny boy? i through as a young boy? as a tiny bo ? ~ . through as a young boy? as a tiny bo ? ~' , ., through as a young boy? as a tiny bo ? ~ , ., ., , boy? i think she would have been re boy? i think she would have been pretty cross _ boy? i think she would have been pretty cross and _ boy? i think she would have been pretty cross and appalled - boy? i think she would have been pretty cross and appalled and, i boy? i think she would have been i pretty cross and appalled and, yeah. i think she would have been stunned, actually. the fact that i went to

such a tricky place i think she would have found hard. i such a tricky place i think she would have found hard. i know you don't want — would have found hard. i know you don't want to _ would have found hard. i know you don't want to discuss _ would have found hard. i know you don't want to discuss the - would have found hard. i know you don't want to discuss the specifics | don't want to discuss the specifics around your nephews, william and harry, but do you think that boarding school experiences have made it harder for the aristocracy in this country to have healthy family relationships? i couldn't answer that — family relationships? i couldn't answer that because _ family relationships? i couldn't answer that because i - family relationships? i couldn't answer that because i can - family relationships? i couldn't answer that because i can only| answer that because i can only really talk about myself, i think. it is too personal to trample other people's family with a view as important as that. my personal view is, i have had several children, i would never send any of them away. if they wanted to go away, they could or can't, two of them chose to go weekly boarding in their mid—teens. but ijust couldn't have done it to them. i couldn't have said, right, you are going. ijust couldn't, it would have broken my heart. ., , ., couldn't, it would have broken my heart. ., y., ., ,., heart. you write, you asked your contemporaries _ heart. you write, you asked your contemporaries at _ heart. you write, you asked your contemporaries at school - heart. you write, you asked your contemporaries at school to - heart. you write, you asked your- contemporaries at school to describe what you are like and they used the word angry. what you are like and they used the

word angry-— what you are like and they used the word angry. yes. and you were angry for a lona word angry. yes. and you were angry for a long time _ word angry. yes and you were angry for a long time and everybody was a witness to some of your completely understandable anger, of course, publicly in september 1997. did the frustration, do you think, at some of the ill—treatment of your sister diana from some of that buried hurt from school? i diana from some of that buried hurt from school?— from school? i don't think she ever understood — from school? i don't think she ever understood why — from school? i don't think she ever understood why her— from school? i don't think she ever understood why her genuinely - from school? i don't think she ever| understood why her genuinely good intentions were sneered at by the media. why there appeared to be a permanent quest on her behalf to bring her down. it is baffling. my own and only explanation is that genuine goodness is threatening to those at the opposite end of the moral spectrum. that those at the opposite end of the moral spectrum.— those at the opposite end of the moralsectrum. ., ., , , , ., ,, moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that ou moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that you finally — moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that you finally wanted _ moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that you finally wanted to _ moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that you finally wanted to stand - moral spectrum. that a sense perhaps that you finally wanted to stand up - that you finally wanted to stand up to bullies. share that you finally wanted to stand up to bullies. �* . that you finally wanted to stand up to bullies. �* , ., ., ,, ., to bullies. are used to take on the ress a to bullies. are used to take on the press a fair _ to bullies. are used to take on the press a fair amount _ to bullies. are used to take on the press a fair amount so _ to bullies. are used to take on the press a fair amount so that - to bullies. are used to take on the press a fair amount so that is - press a fair amount so that is connected to the school. i had an absolute hatred of injustice and non—truth. and so perhaps when i

gave the eulogy at diana's funeral, it is hopping on a generation from that because of their impact on her death. in that because of their impact on her death. . that because of their impact on her death. , ., , ., ., ., death. in terms of the provocation that ou death. in terms of the provocation that you felt _ death. in terms of the provocation that you felt then, _ death. in terms of the provocation that you felt then, driven - death. in terms of the provocation that you felt then, driven by - that you felt then, driven by paparazzi and the treatment of your sister diana by the press, if you look now in 2024 and how the paparazzi has developed into this on online circus, online free for all, do think the dangers of that are more pert. if you look at what is happening now and current princess of wales, do you think that online conspiracy world are more potent than the press intrusion you have fought against? ida. than the press intrusion you have fought against?— than the press intrusion you have fought against? no, i think it was worse back— fought against? no, i think it was worse back in _ fought against? no, i think it was worse back in the _ fought against? no, i think it was worse back in the day. _ fought against? no, i think it was worse back in the day. if- fought against? no, i think it was worse back in the day. if i - fought against? no, i think it was worse back in the day. ifi look. worse back in the day. if i look back to 1997 and diana's death, i

think that was so shocking, the circumstances of her death, were so shocking that it did make the industry that supports the paparazzi really consider more carefully what it could and couldn't do. not because they had a moraljudgment but because it was unacceptable to the public. d0 but because it was unacceptable to the ublic. , ., but because it was unacceptable to the ublic. ., , ., the public. do you worry though about what _ the public. do you worry though about what has _ the public. do you worry though about what has happened - the public. do you worry though about what has happened to - the public. do you worry though j about what has happened to the truth? i about what has happened to the truth? ., ., , ., ., .,, truth? i do worry about what has ha--ened truth? i do worry about what has happened to _ truth? i do worry about what has happened to the _ truth? i do worry about what has happened to the truth. _ truth? i do worry about what has happened to the truth. and - truth? i do worry about what has happened to the truth. and in i truth? i do worry about what has - happened to the truth. and in terms ofthe happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact _ happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact on _ happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact on you, _ happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact on you, having - happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact on you, having written this book, you sat on this for decades because of that culture of fear and silence that was imposed upon you. what was the effect on you finally putting pen to paper? it took me into very places inside of me. i had endless nightmares. i didn't know the appalling things, the really serious things, that happened to some of my friends and contemporaries and i come back from

having interviewed them and be in pieces. and then actually at the end of last year when i had finished the book, i had a bit of a breakdown again and i had to go into a residential treatment for trauma for writing this book. you residential treatment for trauma for writing this book.— writing this book. you say it got very dark? _ writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood _ writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood yes, _ writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood yes, i - writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood yes, i got - writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood yes, i got to l writing this book. you say it got very dark? wood yes, i got to a j very dark? wood yes, i got to a place where everything seems rather pointless. irlat place where everything seems rather ointless. ., , . ., , pointless. not suicidal, but everything _ pointless. not suicidal, but everything seems - pointless. not suicidal, but everything seems rather i pointless. not suicidal, but - everything seems rather pointless. i think confronting, don't think it is an overstatement to say confronting evil is a very... well, it is cataclysmic, really, or it can be. i have always been intrigued by what humans are capable of doing to each other and even my friends would be amazed now, i haven't had a drink for many, many weeks and just censoring myself and i have a form

of therapy for ptsd.— of therapy for ptsd. have other eo - le of therapy for ptsd. have other people who _ of therapy for ptsd. have other people who hadn't _ of therapy for ptsd. have other people who hadn't spoken - of therapy for ptsd. have other people who hadn't spoken out l of therapy for ptsd. have other - people who hadn't spoken out before come to you since then and if anyone is suffering from abuse and they don't yet have the courage to speak out, what did you say to them? thea;r out, what did you say to them? they must speak — out, what did you say to them? they must speak out. _ out, what did you say to them? they must speak out. i _ out, what did you say to them? they must speak out. ithink— out, what did you say to them? iie must speak out. i think so many out, what did you say to them? "iie1: must speak out. i think so many of these people, when i approached them, i said, these people, when i approached them, isaid, what these people, when i approached them, i said, what is your memory of this place? and they said, no, i have put that away in a box for 50 years. then when they opened it, i could see them come alive and be happier. 0bviously, i'm nota therapist, are not qualified, but i hope i was a trusted ear. i do think telling people close to you... i had an e—mailfrom someone telling people close to you... i had an e—mail from someone three years older than me and he wrote to me and said, ijust want older than me and he wrote to me and said, i just want you to older than me and he wrote to me and said, ijust want you to know older than me and he wrote to me and said, i just want you to know that you writing this book, i have been with my wife for 40 years, i've just told her what i went throughout made well and we spent the last hour together. i went to restaurant last night and i was early and the maitre d came up last night and said, thank you, i went to school like that and

i've never told anyone and it is everywhere. i've never told anyone and it is everywhere-— i've never told anyone and it is eve here. ., ., i] everywhere. power and the truth. i like to think _ everywhere. power and the truth. i like to think so. _ everywhere. power and the truth. i like to think so. charles, _ everywhere. power and the truth. i like to think so. charles, thank - everywhere. power and the truth. i like to think so. charles, thank you so much as speaking to me today. thank you. so much as speaking to me today. thank you-— thank you. charles spencer, the brother of _ thank you. charles spencer, the brother of princess _ thank you. charles spencer, the brother of princess diana - thank you. charles spencer, the l brother of princess diana speaking to laura kuenssberg. in a statement, the school said they were sorry to hear about the experiences of charles spencer and some other peoples they had had. they said almost every facet of school life has evolved significantly since the 19705, has evolved significantly since the 1970s, in particular the safeguarding and welfare of children. if you have been affected by any of the issues raised, there is lots of information about the organisations which can offer support on the bbc action line. you may not have heard of frank hester before this week but it is been hard to avoid his name over the past few days after he was accused of saying the veteran mp diane abbott made him want to hate all black women and should be shot. he later apologised for what he called rude comments. at a rally on friday night in hackney,

diane abbott told the crowd to stand firm against racism. this diane abbott told the crowd to stand firm against racism.— firm against racism. this is about the way that _ firm against racism. this is about the way that black _ firm against racism. this is about the way that black women - firm against racism. this is about the way that black women are - the way that black women are disrespected year on year, decade on decade! the disrespected year on year, decade on decade! ., , ., ., , decade! the conservative cabinet minster and _ decade! the conservative cabinet minster and transport _ decade! the conservative cabinet minster and transport secretary i decade! the conservative cabinet - minster and transport secretary mark harper spoke to laura kuenssberg on her sunday morning programme. she asked him whether frank hester�*s comments were racist. did you straightaway think these alleged comments were racist? the prime minister made _ comments were racist? the prime minister made it _ comments were racist? the prime minister made it very _ comments were racist? the prime minister made it very clear- comments were racist? the prime minister made it very clear at - comments were racist? the prime minister made it very clear at pm | comments were racist? the prime i minister made it very clear at pm qs on wednesday that they were racist. took some time to do that, did you think straightaway they were racist? you eight took an age in political terms, it didn't really take very long at all. the prime minister was very clear on wednesday and his spokesman had been clear the evening before that they were racist comments and they were unacceptable and frank hester apologised for those comments... quite like that isn't actually what happened initially. it did take some time for

downing street to say these comments were racist. , . were racist. they were rather dancin: were racist. they were rather dancing around _ were racist. they were rather dancing around that - were racist. they were rather dancing around that issue. in| were racist. they were rather - dancing around that issue. in fact, until your cabinet colleague kemi badenoch said online these were clearly racist, that was not what downing street was saying on the record. ., ., ~' �* downing street was saying on the record. ., ., ~ �* , , .,, downing street was saying on the record. �* , , ., record. look, i'm sure people wanted to make sure — record. look, i'm sure people wanted to make sure and _ record. look, i'm sure people wanted to make sure and check— record. look, i'm sure people wanted to make sure and check the _ record. look, i'm sure people wanted to make sure and check the facts. - to make sure and check the facts. when a newspaper reports things, you do want to go and check the facts are correct and that i think the prime minister was very clear about it that they were racist comments and they were unacceptable and wrong and they were unacceptable and wrong and he made that very clear, both his spokesman made that very clear and he himself made it very clear in the house of commons on wednesday. i was there, i heard him, he was very robust and clear. you was there, i heard him, he was very robust and clear.— was there, i heard him, he was very robust and clear. you know that some of our robust and clear. you know that some of your colleagues _ robust and clear. you know that some of your colleagues did _ robust and clear. you know that some of your colleagues did think _ robust and clear. you know that some of your colleagues did think it - robust and clear. you know that some of your colleagues did think it took . of your colleagues did think it took too long and there was too much of a delay because things happen very fast in politics and what was interesting, we had a very strong response from many of our viewers this week, it was clear straightaway. i can give you some of their comments, clive phillips said...

why did downing street not straightaway agree with our viewers' description of these comments? mellie description of these comments? well, look, we did — description of these comments? well, look, we did agree _ description of these comments? well, look, we did agree with _ description of these comments? -ii look, we did agree with those descriptions. the prime minister was very clear about it. i think you do want tojust go very clear about it. i think you do want to just go and check your facts, just because a newspaper reports something, you want to check your facts but we were very clear about it, they were racist comments. frank hester apologised for those comments and we say we should accept his apology which we have done. downing street was very happy to say these were rude, unacceptable, unpleasant comments. downing street wasn't denying at that point that this had taken place, it was their description of what those words meant and forgive me for labouring this point but this is absolutely vital. ~ .

this point but this is absolutely vital. ~ , ., , , vital. the prime minister was very clear about _ vital. the prime minister was very clear about it _ vital. the prime minister was very clear about it and _ vital. the prime minister was very clear about it and i _ vital. the prime minister was very clear about it and i was _ vital. the prime minister was very clear about it and i was there - vital. the prime minister was very clear about it and i was there in i clear about it and i was there in the house of commons on wednesday, he couldn't have been clearer. having an argument about how many hours it took to say something, i don't really think is the issue here. the issue is the prime minister was very clear that those were racist comments, they were unacceptable and he was absolutely clear about it in terms of when he was asked about it in the house of commons on wednesday. i was there, i heard him very robust... commons on wednesday. i was there, i heard him very robust. . .— heard him very robust... having sent some of your — heard him very robust... having sent some of your colleagues _ heard him very robust... having sent some of your colleagues out - heard him very robust... having sent some of your colleagues out to - heard him very robust... having sent some of your colleagues out to say i some of your colleagues out to say they won't do with racism, gender, but you have made your point, you think downing street had to take its time. the other issue here is the money. he is, as things stand, your biggest donor. we know he has given £10 million, iwill ask biggest donor. we know he has given £10 million, i will ask you biggest donor. we know he has given £10 million, iwill ask you in biggest donor. we know he has given £10 million, i will ask you in a second whether he has given more than that, but our view it wants to know why our viewer wants to know why are toys hanging onto cash rishi sunak has said is made racist comments. why are you hanging onto the money? we comments. why are you hanging onto the mone ? ~ ., comments. why are you hanging onto the money?— the money? we took a donation, it's redated the money? we took a donation, it's predated his — the money? we took a donation, it's predated his comments _ the money? we took a donation, it's predated his comments and - the money? we took a donation, it's predated his comments and we - predated his comments and we declared that in the usual way which

is how people know he has made that a donation. he has made comments and he has apologised for them and the prime minister has made it very clear that the donation stands. you don't think he _ clear that the donation stands. you don't think he should give the money back. i don't think he should give the money back. ., �* ~' don't think he should give the money back. ., �* ~ ., , ., back. i don't. i think he has made comments. _ back. i don't. i think he has made comments, they _ back. i don't. i think he has made comments, they were _ back. i don't. i think he has made comments, they were racist, - comments, they were racist, unacceptable. the prime minister has made that very unclear and frank hester himself has apologised for saying. he hester himself has apologised for sa inc. . . hester himself has apologised for sa ind, ., , ., hester himself has apologised for sa inc. ., , ., hester himself has apologised for sa ind. ., , ., .«r saying. he has and we should make that clear. he _ saying. he has and we should make that clear. he realises _ saying. he has and we should make that clear. he realises they - saying. he has and we should make that clear. he realises they were i that clear. he realises they were wron: as that clear. he realises they were wrong as well- — that clear. he realises they were wrong as well. but _ that clear. he realises they were wrong as well. but he _ that clear. he realises they were wrong as well. but he has - that clear. he realises they were wrong as well. but he has not i wrong as well. but he has not apologised — wrong as well. but he has not apologised for _ wrong as well. but he has not apologised for accepting i wrong as well. but he has not apologised for accepting they | wrong as well. but he has not i apologised for accepting they were racist, he is apologised for making rude remarks and also the specifics of his apology are important here. has he or has he not given the conservatives another £5 million? look, we have declared the donation that he has made. democracy not involved in donations to the party. as the transport secretary, that is not what i'm involved with. if in the future there is a future donation that will be declared in the usual way but that is a hypothetical question that will be looked at. there are processes for

looking at donations to political parties and declaring them, i'm not involved with those but my understanding is if there was a future one, it would be looked at in the usual way and declared but that is a hypothetical question. it the usual way and declared but that is a hypothetical question.— is a hypothetical question. it isn't reall a is a hypothetical question. it isn't really a hypothetical— is a hypothetical question. it isn't really a hypothetical question i really a hypothetical question because there has been reporting this week from reputable organisations saying that he has offered another £5 million to the party. i think our viewers might have expected, with respect mark harper, that he might have found this out before coming on our programme today because this has been a matter of huge public interest. did you not ask those involved to tell you? the donations he has made _ involved to tell you? the donations he has made in _ involved to tell you? the donations he has made in the _ involved to tell you? the donations he has made in the past _ involved to tell you? the donations he has made in the past have i involved to tell you? the donations he has made in the past have been| he has made in the past have been accepted and properly declared, that's how people know that they exist. if frank hester in the future were minded to make a donation to the party, that would be looked at in the usual way and declared but thatis in the usual way and declared but that is a hypothetical question about what might happen in the future. we know what has been declared about donations made

already, those on the record, that's how people know about them. what happens in the future is a hypothetical question which will be looked at in due course. is hypothetical question which will be looked at in due course.— looked at in due course. is not a hypothetical— looked at in due course. is not a hypothetical question _ looked at in due course. is not a hypothetical question because i looked at in due course. is not a i hypothetical question because there is a clear suggestion, reported by reputable outlets, that he has already given another £5 million to the conservative party and i think the conservative party and i think the sum of our viewers, they might listen to you not being able to tell us a straight answer this morning and think of what the prime minister said when he moved into number 10. just listen to this. this said when he moved into number10. just listen to this.— just listen to this. this government will have integrity, _ just listen to this. this government will have integrity, professionalism j will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level. now, _ and accountability at every level. now. he — and accountability at every level. now, he promised the highest levels of integrity and accountability. there has been a matter of enormous public interest this week over whether frank hester had given the conservative party £5 million more. isn't it a contradiction between the promise rishi sunak made it to the country about being accountable about integrity that you can't tell

us what is going on?— us what is going on? look, the donation frank _ us what is going on? look, the donation frank hester - us what is going on? look, the donation frank hester has i us what is going on? look, the l donation frank hester has made us what is going on? look, the i donation frank hester has made in the past have been properly looked at, accepted and declared in the open and transparent way that we are required to do and you expect us to do. if there are future donations, i don't know whether frank hester is going to make any donations... fight! going to make any donations... and ou didn't going to make any donations... and you didn't ask— going to make any donations... and you didn't ask anyone in the party whether he was giving any more money before you came this morning? i don't know if he's going to give donations in the future. if you were to do so, we have proper processes to do so, we have proper processes to check that they are acceptable and then they are declared in the usual way. and then they are declared in the usualway. i and then they are declared in the usual way. i don't know what is going to happen in the future, i don't know if he will be minded to give us more money in the future but there are proper processes that will be declared in the usual way is the prime minister said so that they are very transparent and people can make judgments. ido very transparent and people can make 'udaments. ., , ., , ., judgments. do the conservatives have a roblem judgments. do the conservatives have a problem with — judgments. do the conservatives have a problem with race? _ judgments. do the conservatives have a problem with race? absolutely i judgments. do the conservatives have a problem with race? absolutely not. | a problem with race? absolutely not. the prime minister _ a problem with race? absolutely not. the prime minister himself— a problem with race? absolutely not. the prime minister himself this i a problem with race? absolutely not. the prime minister himself this weekj the prime minister himself this week said we are proudly led by the first british agent prime minister with the most ethnically diverse cabinet there has ever been. we are a party

which welcomes people from across the united kingdom whatever their background, whatever their race, if they share our values and our approach to politics, we want everyone to be a member of the conservative party and feel very comfortable within it. the transport secretary mark _ comfortable within it. the transport secretary mark harper _ comfortable within it. the transport secretary mark harper talking i secretary mark harper talking earlier to laura kuenssberg. stay with us on bbc news.

live from london. this is bbc news. yulia navalnaya, the wife of the late russian opposition leader alexei navalny is in berlin at protest against vladimir putin on the final day of voting in the presidential elections. a mother's plea for her son — as the families of 130 israeli hostages being held in gaza urge the government to broker a deal to free them,

before it's too late. as gangs tighten their grip over haiti's capital, the us says it's chartering a plane to evacuate its civilians from the north. a state of emergency in iceland, after a fourth volcanic eruption in as many months. the village of grindavik is evacuated, only weeks after residents were allowed to return. and steve harley, the frontman of cockney rebel, has died at the age of 73. hello, i'm lauren taylor. we start with a focus on the election in russia — and bring you these live pictures from berlin where yulia navalnaya, the wife of the late opposition leader, is protesting against the vote taking place in russia. voting has entered its third and final day for the country's

presidential election, which is certain to hand