the dominican latin america, the dominican republic boasts the region's fastest growing economy, and that, you might think, would enable the dominican republic to play a role in easing the crisis next door. well, think again. my guest is president of the dominican republic, luis abinader. is his strategy simply adding to haiti's woes? president luis abinader in santo domingo, welcome to hardtalk. santo domingo, welcome to hardtalk—

santo domingo, welcome to hardtalk. ., ~ , ., , . hardtalk. thank you very much for this opportunity _ hardtalk. thank you very much for this opportunity to - hardtalk. thank you very much for this opportunity to expressl for this opportunity to express our view, for this opportunity to express ourview, our for this opportunity to express our view, our idea, for this opportunity to express ourview, our idea, and how for this opportunity to express our view, our idea, and how the dominican republic is developing in several of economic and social ways. i economic and social ways. i think that this is a very important moment to talk to you, mr president. perhaps primarily because of the crisis we see unfolding in neighbouring haiti. i know that you and your government are watching this 21w, monitoring the situation. just how dangerous do you feel the situation to be right now? well, in the dominican republic, it is in complete peace. i mean, we have the country is developing. we are hoping to grow this year at approximately 5%. the tourism is booming. we have every day, more tourists coming to our country. and everything is normal in the dominican republic. but as a neighbouring

country, and also, for the whole region, we have to look at what the situation in haiti is. the border is secure in every way. we have our armed forces looking for it. but we have more than almost three years asking for the international community to do some action for haiti. and this action has to do also with helping haiti — helping to organise and to have control over the gangs that are taking over, especially in the capital. over, especially in the capital-— over, especially in the caital. ., ., ,. , capital. you have described haiti as the, _ capital. you have described haiti as the, "foremost - capital. you have described - haiti as the, "foremost threat" facing your country — words echoed by your minister of interior and police, who also said, "the main threat we face is coming from haiti." ijust wonder what you mean by that? in what way is haiti and what's happening there a threat to you

right now?— right now? well, we are, as i said, right now? well, we are, as i said. we _ right now? well, we are, as i said. we are _ right now? well, we are, as i said, we are a _ right now? well, we are, as i said, we are a country - right now? well, we are, as i l said, we are a country growing. we area said, we are a country growing. we are a country at peace. we are a country that all of our industry is doing very well. and we just don't want any of these gangs. and we are organised for that not to happen. that could enter into the country. we are organising and we have all of the security. it's a neighbouring country. it is the same thing that has happened to any neighbouring country in the world. you have to take the security measures in order to do that. and that's why we see what is happening outside, because we don't have any risk from inside of our country. [30 from inside of our country. do ou from inside of our country. do you believe you have a moral and a humanitarian responsibility to do everything you can to help neighbouring haiti right now — bearing in mind you've said that your economy is growing fast — the fastest in latin america. your

gdp per person is more than six times that of haiti. does that give you an extra responsibility in a way to help your neighbour? ida. responsibility in a way to help your neighbour?— responsibility in a way to help your neighbour? no, the main resnonsibility _ your neighbour? no, the main responsibility is _ your neighbour? no, the main responsibility is to _ your neighbour? no, the main responsibility is to the - responsibility is to the dominican republic people and to dominican people. and the main responsibility is that the dominican people are safe and can maintain peace. any how, as a country in this part of the region, we want the international community to help haiti. this is the one who has to do it. and as a neighbouring country, it for us is more difficult to do any help or to do any action. but the international community can do. and countries, such as the united states, canada and france, for its history, i think that they need to do the action. and they need to move and to send a mission to

passify haiti for the good of the haitian people. for months now, mr president, _ the haitian people. for months now, mr president, your- now, mr president, your government has been expelling, deporting haitians from the dominican republic. one think tank in your country says up to 1,000 people a day are being deported from your country back into haiti. this at a time when haiti is facing the most terrible economic and humanitarian crisis. how can you justify doing that? the same way _ you justify doing that? the same way that _ you justify doing that? the same way that the - you justify doing that? iie: same way that the united states, bahamas and all of the other countries are doing this, and doing the same. we cannot accept haitian or any other country that are not legal in the dominican republic. and that's what, if we accept people which are not legal, that becomes also a threat to our national and our internal security. our national and our internal securi . �* our national and our internal security-—

our national and our internal securi . �* . , our national and our internal securi .�* . , ~ security. and in many cases, mr president. _ security. and in many cases, mr president, these _ security. and in many cases, mr president, these are _ security. and in many cases, mr president, these are people - security. and in many cases, mr| president, these are people who were born, made their lives in your country. were born, made their lives in your country-— your country. no, no, that is not true- _ your country. no, no, that is nottrue- i— your country. no, no, that is not true. i mean, _ your country. no, no, that is not true. i mean, we - your country. no, no, that is not true. i mean, we are - not true. i mean, we are following the law on that part and our constitution. and whoever is a dominican is a dominican that doesn't care from where it comes. but we are not deporting dominicans or people who have dominican nationality. people who have dominican nationality-— people who have dominican nationality. no, i understand that. nationality. no, i understand that we _ nationality. no, i understand that. we respect _ nationality. no, i understand that. we respect the - nationality. no, i understand that. we respect the law- nationality. no, i understand that. we respect the law and j nationality. no, i understand i that. we respect the law and we respeet- -- _ that. we respect the law and we respeet- -- we — that. we respect the law and we respect... we also _ that. we respect the law and we respect... we also respect - respect... we also respect the... all of the rights and the... all of the rights and the human rights. i understand that if people _ the human rights. i understand that if people have _ the human rights. i understand that if people have a _ the human rights. i understand| that if people have a dominican passport, then you're not deporting them. but the point is that there are now many haitians who do not qualify for a dominican passport, even though they might have been born in your country, they don't qualify for a passport. they are in a sense, stateless. and there is no doubt,

according to the un, that people in that category are included in the thousands that you are sending back to haiti. and according to un, that includes vulnerable people, including pregnant women and children. and i come back to this basic question — on what basis can you do that when you know what the situation is, particularly for children and women, inside haiti? in our constitution, _ women, inside haiti? in our constitution, and _ women, inside haiti? in our constitution, and our - women, inside haiti? in our constitution, and our laws, | women, inside haiti? in our. constitution, and our laws, as you said, then don't qualify to be dominican citizens. you already said that. and our constitution is not that whoever was born here has to be dominican. it's whoever his father and mother are dominican. and that's what we are applying — our law and our constitution. and we are doing all of that with all international protocols in that way. what we are doing is helping a lot of haitians that are giving birth in the dominican republic. 37% of our

maternity beds are occupied by haitians. who other country does that? and we are not a rich country. so we are helping them. the same thing that has to be done by other countries. other countries have to help haiti. they cannot rely everything on the dominican republic. and we are acting by our laws and our constitution, and we will continue to do that. ., , , ., that. the un high commissioner for human _ that. the un high commissioner for human rights, _ that. the un high commissioner for human rights, volker - that. the un high commissioner for human rights, volker turk, l for human rights, volker turk, called on you to halt the deportations as haiti is undergoing such a terrible catastrophe with gang violence, with sexual assaults on women. he asked you to stop the deportations. will you? ida. he asked you to stop the deportations. will you? no, we will not. deportations. will you? no, we will not- we — deportations. will you? no, we will not. we will— deportations. will you? no, we will not. we will continue - deportations. will you? no, we will not. we will continue to - will not. we will continue to do our and to apply our laws and our constitution. i think that the un is the one who has to act more. i think that us has lost a lot of time, and especially that unit, to help haiti. and we have been saying that for more than three years,

that for more than three years, that haiti is going into this. we were the first one who used the word for haiti, and they cannot ask the dominican republic to solve the haitian problem. we will not do it. we cannot do it. i think that the un has to act more. and we have been asking the un for that since 2001 — 2021. been asking the un for that since 2001 - 2021.- been asking the un for that since 2001 - 2021. millions of haitians face _ since 2001 - 2021. millions of haitians face a _ since 2001 - 2021. millions of haitians face a food _ since 2001 - 2021. millions of haitians face a food crisis, . haitians face a food crisis, and according to the un, 350,000 have been displaced in recent months as a result of the gang violence. would you be willing, in the short—term, as an emergency humanitarian gesture, will you be willing to let some of those displaced people enter your territory, for example, in short—term final camps? for example, in short-term final camps?— for example, in short-term final camps? for example, in short-term final cams? ., ., ., final camps? no, we will not do it. final camps? no, we will not do it- because _ final camps? no, we will not do it. because we _ final camps? no, we will not do it. because we have _ final camps? no, we will not do it. because we have a _ final camps? no, we will not do it. because we have a lot - final camps? no, we will not do it. because we have a lot of- it. because we have a lot of historic reasons to do that. i think that they have a lot of

opportunities around the haiti territory. they to see whether they can utilise it like that. but we will not authorise any refugee camps at this moment for a lot of security and also historic reasons.— historic reasons. you, mr president, _ historic reasons. you, mr president, have - historic reasons. you, mr| president, have prioritised building a very secure border wall, orfence — i don't quite know what you call it — along much of your land border with haiti. are you still regarding that as a big priority? i mean, how far along building that wall are you? we how far along building that wall are you?— wall are you? we are also finishing _ wall are you? we are also finishing - _ wall are you? we are also finishing - it's _ wall are you? we are also finishing - it's almost - finishing — it's almost finishing — it's almost finishing 95% or 97%. 54km of wall where we have the biggest amount of population, especially from the haitian

side. can you describe to me any other country in the western hemisphere that has the security problem that haiti has? i mean, there is not other countries. so i have to do whatever is necessary to secure our people. and we are doing that. and it's really — it's even organising also the normal trade between haiti and the dominican republic, and is helping a lot in our security. and that's why we have started almost two years ago to build this, it is almost complete. but we will continue to secure our border in the 390km approximately that we have. it is a national security objective.— is a national security ob'ective. ~ , ., is a national security ob'ective. ~ objective. when you say, "we will do whatever _ objective. when you say, "we will do whatever we _ objective. when you say, "we will do whatever we have - objective. when you say, "we will do whatever we have to i objective. when you say, "we| will do whatever we have to do to secure the dominican republic", ijust to secure the dominican republic", i just wonder to secure the dominican republic", ijust wonder how much you care about your international reputation? for example, as we discussed earlier, the way in which you are continuing to deport very large numbers of haitians back

into haiti at this time of crisis. the been described by some people, including the former haitian foreign minister, claudejoseph, as an example of dominican racism. one of the campaigners of dominican dissent within your own country has accused you of building some sort of an apartheid regime. and us state department has warned american citizens visiting your country that those with a darker skin should be aware that they risk being profiled and detained. are you aware of what all of this is doing to your reputation?- this is doing to your reutation? ., , , ., ., reputation? no, my reputation is to apply _ reputation? no, my reputation is to apply the _ reputation? no, my reputation is to apply the constitution - is to apply the constitution and the law. it is the same thing that are being done in the other countries. if you see the other countries. if you see the bahamas, the is doing the same thing. if you see jamaica, it is doing the same thing. if you see the united states — the united states is doing the same thing. what about canada? canada is doing the same thing. we arejust applying canada is doing the same thing. we are just applying our law.

and we are the country who has really held more of the haitians, as i said in our health system. it is completely ridiculous to speak to the dominican republic about race. 85% of the dominican are mixed race. we have never had a problem of race in this country. they had a problem of race in haiti — not us. we have never had this problem. we are just fulfilling... whoever is from any country in the world thatis from any country in the world that is illegal in this country we are deporting, as any country does that. so the international community, and they are not doing that... cannot ask the dominican republic to do more for haiti. we cannot do that. $5 republic to do more for haiti. we cannot do that.— republic to do more for haiti. we cannot do that. as you know, the are we cannot do that. as you know, they are asking. _ we cannot do that. as you know, they are asking. but _ we cannot do that. as you know, they are asking. but they're - they are asking. but they're also, i think, they are asking. but they're also, ithink, worrying they are asking. but they're also, i think, worrying that the international community is worrying about certain steps you've taken. and let's talk about one more specific step.

last year, you appeared to be so angered by haiti's attempts to build an irrigation canal taking some waters from the river which you share with haiti — you were so angered by their attempts to construct an irrigation channel that you cut off all cross border trade. you stopped issuing visas. you stopped issuing visas. you stopped travel between the two countries. that deeply damaged haiti. 0f countries. that deeply damaged haiti. of course, the haitian farmers are desperate for this irrigation canal. why on earth are you trying to stop them getting such a vital piece of infrastructure? i getting such a vital piece of infrastructure?— infrastructure? i think that ou are infrastructure? i think that you are not _ infrastructure? i think that you are not very _ infrastructure? i think that you are not very well- infrastructure? i think that - you are not very well informed. we have a treaty to share the waters. and from this water, we give 85% that is irrigated in the dominican republic. it is just two kilometres that enters into haiti. and even it is not

born — it is not born or irrigated in haiti, we give water to haiti. and we have never had a problem with the haitian farmers. well now, they want to build a canal that takes the whole of the water into haiti, forjust two kilometres that goes into that. and it is also against our treaty. a treaty that has been respected for over the years. and it is not a canalfor farmers. it is a canalfor two or three big agricultural enterprises that are going to use the water in haiti. it is completely against the treaty that we signed in 1929. but that we signed in 1929. but that we signed in 1929. but that we say that he with are going to share proportionally the rivers that are in the frontier. and we do that. we have absolutely no problem. you haven't actually _ have absolutely no problem. you haven't actually perswayed some of our own people. i'll quote to you a professor at the santo domingo institute of technologies who said, "the

haitian have the right to draw water from the river, just as the dominican republic people do." and as i understand it, you have ten or more canals taking water from that river. so it's a little hard to understand your position. but another president, lionel fernandez, say that is your stopping visas and trade and travel was counterproductive. it's damaged notjust haiti, but damaged your country as well. ~ . . . but damaged your country as well. . ., .,. ., but damaged your country as well. ~ . ., ., well. we are acting to our national _ well. we are acting to our national security. - well. we are acting to our national security. that - well. we are acting to our| national security. that was well. we are acting to our - national security. that was an illegal part of our treaty. i respect whatever opinions. but 95% of our people and 95% of the lawyers already agree that it was a breach of the treaty. and that's really what it was — a breach of the treaty. and it was even, we went into the organisation of the american state for mediation and to try to work in that way and to organise what percentage of the

water should go to haiti. what percentage should stay here. in the river that runs 85% — almost 90% in our territory. and just two kilometres in haitiment and they want to almost have all of the water of the river going into haiti because you know, they have a real deforestation problem that has nothing to do with the dominican republic. so we are really fulfilling our treaties and our lost. in really fulfilling our treaties and our lost.— really fulfilling our treaties and our lost. in it interview, ou and our lost. in it interview, you said _ and our lost. in it interview, you said to _ and our lost. in it interview, you said to me _ and our lost. in it interview, you said to me - _ and our lost. in it interview, you said to me - i— and our lost. in it interview, you said to me - i want- and our lost. in it interview, you said to me - i want the| you said to me — i want the international community to do much more. the un has to step up, and i know that you support the idea of an international security force, led by the kenyans. do you think you should be providing some security personnel for that particular mission?- security personnel for that particular mission? that is a . ainst particular mission? that is against our _ particular mission? that is against our constitution. l particular mission? that is i against our constitution. and that would also not be accepted in haiti. so this is out of the question. in haiti. so this is out of the question-— question. this crisis is unfolding. _ question. this crisis is unfolding. i'm - question. this crisis is unfolding. i'm very . question. this crisis is - unfolding. i'm very aware, as you are, facing a re—election

campaign. you've got elections in may and you've made it plain that you would like re—election, and your pledge to protect the dominican republic and to safeguard it is quite clear. it's come across in this interview. ijust wonder — when you told the people back in 2020 that you would represent fundamental change, "it would be an end to the corrupt politician, the would be the beginning of honest, transparent government at service of the people." do you think you've delivered? i service of the people." do you think you've delivered?- think you've delivered? i think that we have _ think you've delivered? i think that we have delivered - think you've delivered? i think that we have delivered and - think you've delivered? i think that we have delivered and we have advanced much more than in any place in history. we have any place in history. we have an attorney general who is independent. an attorney general who is looking for any wrongdoing from any party or any political scope, even within the government. we are for the first time, doing real awed is to all the government

institutions —— audits to the government institutions. when don't accept or we don't allow any corruption and impunity is no longer an issue in the dominican republic. of course, it's not perfect. we have to continue to advance. but we have advanced more than ever in that area. and at the same time, we are expanding the quality areas. and that's why poverty has a record low, even with all of the situation as that we have had because of the pandemic. that we have had because of the andemic. ~ �* that we have had because of the pandemic— pandemic. we'll get to corruption _ pandemic. we'll get to corruption in _ pandemic. we'll get to corruption in just - pandemic. we'll get to corruption in just a - pandemic. we'll get to - corruption in just a second. butjust on crime and security in your own country — i mean, you did promise the people that you did promise the people that you would improve the situation. ijust look at you would improve the situation. i just look at the homicide rate in 2022, which was actually worse than it was in 2019. the organised crime index for the region shows your country the fourth worst in all of the caribbean. you're still

a transit hub for cocaine, according to international police sources. so you don't really seem to have cleaned up the country in the way that you promised. irate the country in the way that you promised-— promised. we really have advanced _ promised. we really have advanced a _ promised. we really have advanced a if _ promised. we really have advanced a if you - promised. we really have advanced a if you see - promised. we really have | advanced a if you see what promised. we really have - advanced a if you see what we are doing within our country, we have confiscated more drugs in three years than in the previous 16 years. and that if you add the dea and the international narcotics organisation, we are doing an excellentjob. all over the world, after there was a lot of conflict and homicide by conflict, that increased on there because in 2022 because of people going out. but if you see in 2023, it when down. and it's lower than in the last 20 — it is much lower than in the last 20 years. 12 years ago, if you see, it was 27 homicides. at this moment, it is 10.5 this year homicides which is the lowest in the caribbean. i think that the statistics that you have are not quite up to

date. it is the lowest this year. we have the lowest, with the exception of barbados, we have the lowest crime rate — which for me is even high, but we are advancing. you know how we are advancing. you know how we took the police salaries. we multiplied almost by three with a minimum salary of $500. whereas before, it was $200. we are educating the police. we are educating the police. we are reforming the police. so we are reforming the police. so we are advancing a lot. and the numbers, the statistics — if you see the statistics that we have here, we are increasing even with the police reform is not doing it in two or three years. it takes 15 years and we are advancing. more than even the international community's perspective. the international community's pempeetive-— perspective. and on the question _ perspective. and on the question of _ perspective. and on the question of corruption l perspective. and on the question of corruption - perspective. and on the l question of corruption - i perspective. and on the - question of corruption - i look question of corruption — i look at the transparency international index of global corruption. you've made improvements but still only at 108 in the 180 or so countries

in the world. your corruption perception is basically tied pretty much with countries like egypt, sierra leone, panama. it doesn't suggest that you've truly cleaned out the stables, as you promised, and your political opponents say — you know what, what the president has done is basically go after his political enemies — the people who were in power before he took over. the people who were in power before he took over-— he took over. the position will tell everything. _ he took over. the position will tell everything. we _ he took over. the position will tell everything. we have - tell everything. we have several members of the government that have been indicted. but they have to commit a crime to be indicted. there were 16 years of acting that was never was there an indictment for anybody. so that is active right now with an independent attorney general. and if you see in corruption index, if you see everything where it is going, at some points, even 23% — we have a better situation at the moment. we have advanced a lot and we

will continue to advance a lot. we cannot change in three years a century that has been government has allowed the corruption and has never worked on impunity. we are doing that. and all of the indices and the situation is reflecting that. we have to end it there. i do thank you very much indeed for joining me from santo domingo, president luis abinader, thank you. president luis abinader, thank ou. . ~' president luis abinader, thank ou. . ~ , .,

hello, there. it's going to be turning colder right across the uk, as we head through the rest of the week. sunny spells and showers through the day on thursday. lots of rainbows spotted by our weather watchers towards the north. that theme at least is set to continue, so more blustery showers, a brisk, northwesterly wind and just some chillier feeling air, with a possibility of some nighttime frosts in the more rural, sheltered spots. why? well, because this cold front will be sinking southwards and eastwards, as we head through the day on friday, introducing that colder—feeling air. already a chilly start to the day from north wales, across northern england, scotland and northern ireland — some showers blowing in here. a cold front pushes more clouds towards the far southeast of england and some outbreaks of rain, and the hang—back of that rain is still across parts of kent, sussex into perhaps eastern areas of hampshire. as we head through the afternoon on friday, it will eventually clear. temperatures now round about the seasonal average, a few showers, particularly out towards the west, most frequent across northern and western scotland, a brisk, westerly wind blowing, and some of those showers are likely to be wintry

over the high ground. gales across the northern isles and the far northwest of scotland. now, low pressure continues to push eastwards just to the north of scotland, as we head through friday and into saturday. saturday, a particularly cold start to the day. temperatures, for many, will drop back to low single figures, and in the shelter of that brisk westerly—to—north—westerly wind, we're likely to see a touch of frost, though gardeners beware. also some icy stretches out there, as well. saturday, a day of sunshine and showers again, the showers most frequent in the north and the west. some of the showers could be wintry over the tops of the hills, just about anywhere across the uk. there will be some sunny spells in between, but a lot of added wind chill. these temperatures are below the seasonal average. it will actually feel colder than that because of the strength of the wind, too. but there will be some sunshine here and there, as well, and it does look like it's going to turn a bit sunnier through the day on sunday. a brief ridge of high pressure should keep us largely dry, but clouding over towards

the west by the end of the day. low pressure always close by, as we head through into the start of next week, so it's going to be feeling colder. we'll see the drop in temperature and it will be quite showery. some longer spells of rain at times, too, as we head through next week, so unsettled and feeling cooler. bye— bye.

live from london, this is bbc news. america's top diplomat, antony blinken, says there's consensus between the us and arab allies on the need for an immediate ceasefire in gaza. the us has filed a landmark lawsuit against apple, accusing the tech giant of monopolising the smartphone market and crushing competition. the world's most prestigious flower show hosts its first "no adults allowed" garden, designed by children, for children.

hello and welcome to bbc news. i'm lukwesa burak. we begin with the latest on the israel—gaza conflict. the un security council will vote later on a draft resolution proposed by the us, which ties an immediate ceasefire in gaza to the release of hostages held by hamas. washington has previously vetoed three ceasefire resolutions, but has grown increasingly critical of israel's military campaign. america's top diplomat, antony blinken, is heading to tel aviv today, to continue talks on a plan to govern and secure gaza after the war. our correspondent in jerusalem mark lowen gave us his analysis. the wheels of diplomacy still very much in motion with the us secretary of state antony blinken talking about how he believes an agreement is possible to end this war, even if it will be difficult, in his

words, and also talking about how there