and healing to catherine. and the un secretary—general antonio guterres makes a renewed call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza. it is just it isjust gone it is just gone for 30 pm. it isjust gone for 30 pm. a it is just gone for 30 pm. a very good afternoon to you. now on bbc news, newscast. hello, it's adam in the studio. and it's chris in the studio. now, basically, chris, ourwhole careers as politicaljournalists, there has been bubbling away this campaign led by the waspi women, so women against state pension inequality, and this is women who were born in the 50s but saw their state pension age increase so that it was equalised with men, and lots of them feel

like they lost out as a result for various reasons. yeah, and the whole thing strikes a chord with a couple of other issues that have made news in just the last couple of months. and they fall into a category that you could sort of loosely describe as generation—long state failure, which then comes with a massive bill for whichever government decides it is going to try and deal with it. so we've seen the row about the post office, we've seen the row about infected blood and now we see this. you know, with a report today saying that this generation of women were never told properly what was going on, which left many finding out very late in the day that suddenly they would not be getting the state pension they thought they were going to be getting until much further down the track. and yet, what we've had today in response to this is the conservatives in government and labour soon hoping to be in government,

both committing to diddly squat. they're not saying that they'll compensate. why? well, that is for them to answer, but the context is one where the bill would be huge and the public finances are squeezed. well, we can chew over this now because we're joined by angela madden, who is one of the leaders of the campaign. hello. has this been a big day for you? big day, yes. we've been waiting for it for a long time. 0k, and lily russell—jones is the senior money reporter at the times newspaper. hi, lily. hello. are we talking about big numbers here? give us some numbers. yes, so there are about 3.6 million women born in the 1950s _ who are thought to be in the first kind of cohort affected _ by the changes to state pension age. the government has... well, the ombudsman said i that the cost of compensating all of those women would be somewhere between 3.5- billion and £10 billion. so that would certainly be quite a big compensation scheme. i i mean, it could be bigger depending on how much compensation - it is decided that women are owed lor there might be nothing at all. i and, yeah, angela, what is your reaction to what this ombudsman found out? i mean, i have to admit,

i don't really know what the parliamentary ombudsman — what they actually do all the time, but they are a legitimate body and they have produced a huge, big report today that is the product of five years of investigation. five years of investigation. and they took evidence from waspi women, from the department for work and pensions, from other campaign groups as well as the waspi campaign. and from the all— party parliamentary group in parliament working on behalf of women born in the 1950s. three years ago, they found that the department for work and pensions got it wrong — they should have communicated with us quicker than they did, and that was agreed to be maladministration. and it was as simple as sending a letter to your home is to say you are affected by this change. yes, it was that simple. they didn't do that do that for 14 years following the 1995 pension act, so we could have had 14 years more notice of the change to our state pension age than we actually received. what would you have done differently? not to pry into your finances. i wouldn't have given up

a full—time job to care for my then—ailing mother. that would've been the main thing that i would've done differently. i perhaps would have shared that caring responsibility and worked part—time. but i wasn't given that choice — the choice was taken away from me because i knew i could manage until my 60th birthday. but what i didn't know until 2012 was i wasn't going to get my pension on my 60th birthday in 2014, it wasn't going to arrive until march 2020. i wonder, angela, if today is a day that leaves you with hope and a spring in your step, or a sense of hopelessness? because we've got an ombudsman who has been very clear in her conclusions, and yet you have the party of government and the party that soon aspires to be in government promising nothing. exactly, but we do have hope.

we have hundreds of supportive mps in parliament and what we are now hoping for is a debate in parliament. so parliament actually makes the decisions about what should happen to waspi women, not just the government of the day. but in the end, you've got to persuade a government, haven't you? yes, yes, and i think parliament can do that. through debate. the department for work and pensions got this wrong. the government know they got it wrong. they have changed the law. so that there will never again be a six—year pension hike put on one decade. there is only going to be ever a single year per decade increase to the state pension age. that's the stable door, though, i guess, isn't it, closing? with the old horse running around. yes, that's right. so they've closed the stable door for future generations, and i think that is good, but they still have to resolve this issue. and lily, have you been speaking to lots of other people who have been going through what angela did? yes, i think today it's been mixed reactions, really, i from waspi women who were affected

by the changes — because i think some feel that, lyou know, they're still waiting| for a resolution to what has been a decades—long struggle. - i've spoken to one - woman who gave up a job because she thought her state pension age was 63 _ but it actually was 66. she gave up work, similarly to you, to look after an elderly parent - and she reduce her working hours, and it meant that while she waited for the state pension she thinks that she spent about £40,000i from her pension savings filling in that gap. - and i think that she's really- characteristic of a lot of women's experiences who say they were not told and suffered financial - hardship as a result. i wonder how, angela, on the kind of deserving—ometer, if you like, of compensation — when you have, as i was mentioning, the subpostmasters seeking compensation. and there's a process ongoing with that. there's the infected blood scandal. you and your campaign are seeking compensation that would add up to the billions — maybe the tens of billions — at a time when the public finances are squeezed and where political

parties are blinking at the prospect of handing over money. how do you get to that next stage of convincing them? because they're not convinced yet. not all of them, but but several of them actually are. i mean, before jeremy hunt took 2p off national insurance in the recent budget, there was a surplus of 79 billion in the national insurance fund. tomorrow, they could use 36 billion of that surplus to repay waspi women and close this down forever. a vast amount of money, though, isn't it? it is a vast amount of money, but they've also saved a vast amount of money by increasing the state pension age. they've saved 181 billion. so they've used us as a cash cow for long enough. and i think because they chose not to give us the opportunity to manage our own finances by not telling us, they have a responsibility to compensate us for that. and they need to consider it. they need to discuss it.

they need to think about what happens to trust between society and government if they don't recompense us properly. because all our sons and daughters are watching this, all the ni payers of today are thinking, "well, will there ever be a state pension for me? why am i even paying this tax? what am i going to get out of it?" and they might have to pay a bit more tax to pay your compensation. i'm sure they do. i'm also a taxpayer. you know, i have rights as well, and i would prefer my tax to be paying my compensation than perhaps some of the other things the government choose to do with that fund. lily, i just wonder if the way this goes, if labour and the tories are kind of on the same page — just sort of hoping it goes away and not making any commitments — actually is the real division that

might emerge between older voters and younger voters about who deserves to be compensated here and who should be paying for it? because i just think a young person who can't get on the housing ladder thinking, "oh, i'm going to have to pay a bit more tax to compensate some people who maybe have quite nice houses already." yeah. to caricature it. i mean, i think that there's. a legitimate argument here, which i hope most people would be sympathetic with from the womenl who say they really didn't know. i think there's a question| of whether it's all women who were born in the 1950s who get compensation or whether it's - restricted to a smaller i group who can prove that because they weren't - informed with good notice, they therefore took decisions which were detrimental- to them financially. so i think there probably— is a debate to be had which we might see in parliament between, you know, those who think, "yes, _ this should be like a flat rate i of compensation for everyone. only certain people should get it." |we could see quite a restrictive scheme that only allows certain people to be compensated. i and then there's also this question. of how much they should get in terms

of intergenerational inequality. i'm not trying to create a fight between you two. just to be clear. i think that, you know, _ you want to see politicians correct . injustices and correct wrongs that . government departments have made. and if the ombudsman says that an injustice has occurred, - then i think that that's quite i compelling evidence that these people are owed compensation. i don't think there is an intergenerational divide on this. we talk to and listen to an awful lot of people, and we do have one slogan and that is #everyoneknowsawaspiwoman. you know, i have nieces, nephews. they're all paying tax. they all know what we've been through and they sympathise. and they if they were asked what the government would prefer to do with their taxes, would say, well, get this sorted out. we are all absolutely appalled by the neglect of this government.

you mentioned the horizon issues. you mentioned the contaminated blood issues. these are all mistakes the governments have made and keeps on making. now, when is this going to end? and that's such an interesting kind of context in all of this, isn't it? and illustrates, just as your day has, the kind of stamina that you guys as campaigners need to try and make the argument, because i saw you, what, about three hours ago, you'd already done, what was it, 26 interviews at that point? now we're a few hours... how many how many interviews have you done today? i think 42. 42! well, angela, thanks for coming in. you're very welcome. thank you for giving us the opportunity. and lily. great to see you, too. thanks for having us. now, chris, i've actually been off for a couple of days. and would you like to know the political story that caught my attention when i wasn't really paying to the attention to the news properly? emmanuel macron, french president, boxing and being photographed doing it. it's quite the picture, isn't it? he is quite hunky. well, yeah, he's got muscles. he's got biceps. yeah, he's got biceps. 14, late forties, a7, 48.

he looks good. and we on this side of the channel can't really compete with that can we. i'm trying to think there's an equivalent — rishi sunak. i think he's got a treadmill in downing street. i think it is a bit of a sort of, you know, running on the treadmill. i mean, he doesn't like to be pictured being a bit sporty. i saw some like social media ads he did the other day. they were on the football pitch. mm—hmm. talking of football, keir starmer always going on about going to arsenal and is a proper kind of football fan. and it is genuine. is genuine. yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. i mean, i think the one though that lodges in my mind is that famous video of borisjohnson as mayor of london on a visit to japan where he just demolishes an 8—year—old child in a match. it's almost like it reveals an aspect of his character that would become quite important,

otherwise, you know, later on. anyway, this is a great excuse for newscasters to tell us their mad we want to know, have you ever encountered a politician playing sports? have you done mahjong with theresa may? i'd have to think of alliterative sports that match. ball games with ed balls? i don't know. anyway, let us know. lacrosse with lammy? exactly. newscast@bbc.co.uk. hockey with hunt? there you go. they are spewing out of you now. or you can download discord, the app you can use to talk to other

newscasters and talk to us about what's on the podcast. anyway, what we're going to talk about now, i had a very pleasant afternoon. badminton with barclay? 0k, newscast@bbc. co. uk. so, netflix sent me a link to a preview of their new big drama, scoop, the story of how newsnight got the interview with prince andrew. so you can't yet watch it as a subscriber, but you've seen it? i'm basicallyjust showing off. and i've only watched the first 47 minutes. but, luckily... i was going to say the star of scoop, but billie piper plays her. it's our former colleague, newsnight producer sam mcallister. hello. it's so meta, guys, honestly. i'm confused at this stage. we're in a studio talking to you as our former colleague, who's now an author, but is being played by billie piper in the drama, which also stars gillian anderson playing emily maitlis, who sometimes used to appear on this podcast, but is now a rival podcaster. well, in that case... i mean, it's a lot of water under the bridge! welcome. i was going to say, it was super weird for me seeing the netflix representation of my office. it must have been even weirder for you seeing the netflix representation of your entire life. it's so next level weird, and amazing, and surreal, and bonkers. i mean, i've run out of words.

but to see fictional me arriving at real bbc, to go into fictional bbc, where fictional emily maitlis and my fictional former boss, esme wren, played by romola garai, are all hanging out together. i mean, it's next level, need a lie down. it is mad seeing these famous actors playing people used to chat to in the lift. it is very strange. i'm not totally convinced by gillian anderson's emily maitlis voice, though. she's got her body language, like, totally down to a tee. the voice i thought was maybe a little bit too margaret thatcher in the crown. i'm not going to be giving that feedback. yeah, please don't. i'm not going to text gillian right now and say you had said that. because i don't want her to come here and sort you out, you know? and, frankly, ithink it's sensational. so, you know... it's a great performance. we'lljust leave that there. and it makes you realise... we used to be friends. i can't believe you came at gillian anderson! i wish we could just delete that, rewind. don't put this bit in the big budget film version of this episode. i'm curious as to how it works when... so, they're dramatising this thing, this interview. a fair amount of which is obviously out there in public, ie the interview, and involves prince andrew and emily maitlis, who are both public figures. you were the absolute centrepiece

of this whole thing, but not a public figure at that time. and so how billie piper goes about playing you and trying to represent you, in a way that is authentic or not. have you guys met? did she get a sense of how you speak, how your demeanour is, how your body language is, or not? well, the poorwoman, chris, in answer to both of your questions, the first part is, to be frank with you, we've all seen the interview. 0r most people have. that's 5% of this. the other 95% is the story of the newsnight team, my role in that team, the other people who worked... how the interview came about. because, with respect to you guys, who are obviously highfaluting presenters, without the people who do the booking, i was a hooker, you've got no—one here, right? someone booked me. so there's no content without the people behind—the—scenes. so this is, if you like, that relatable part of telling the story of how the 5% came about, with the 95. now, in answer to your billie question, this is next level bonkers. billie spent a lot of time with me. so, the poor thing, she learned how to do my walk,

which just so you know is very bouncy. it involves a lot of curls going up and down. she had to wear my clothes, which, just so you know, are basically black — every day, on rotation. i do wash them, just to be clear. she learned my voice, my modulation. and how did she do that? just followed you around? yeah, we spent time together. so, we had some time together, she met my son, who is also played in the movie by a lovely boy called zach colton. we call him flucas — fake lucas. because my kid is called lucas. and billie spent a lot of time with me. and she asked me lots of questions. the level of detail is meticulous. let me ask the sceptical question for a newscaster who is toying whether to watch this drama. which is how do you make exciting telly out of a process that involves a super booker doing lots of things, lots of phone calls and the rest of it, to make a interview happen, and then preparing for an interview that lots of people will have seen? i think the answer to that is, basically, that is where the magic happens, right? everyone thinks the magic is the interview. but the truth is, it took a year of my life, there were numerous meetings, which you see in the film.

there are numerous problems that we had to overcome. there are issues and questions. and, effectively, if you like, you don't have the whole story. in our age of truth, which i know you both really care about, finding out how it happened is, in a sense, a big part of the story. so i think, in a sense, if you are the type of person who is curious how these things happen, it's great for you. if you'd like to learn more about how things happen, it's great for you. and if you like a scrappy underdog who was a single mum, working part—time in a job she loved, but grafting herself into, like, oblivion, travelling on the bus, having a kebab, never thinking this interview would happen, then you see my personal story as well. so i think there's something for everyone, even if you've seen the interview. well, let's see a bit of the film now. this is you and your colleagues, including emily... well, billie as you. going to buckingham palace to sort of... this isn't quite sealing the deal, this is pre—sealing the deal. but this is how it sounds. if i do an interview, - the question is, why you?

with respect, you know how people see you. spell it out. randy... ..andy. with respect? did that happen? you've met me, you know the answer to that. it did happen. there's a point in a negotiation — i'm not very bbc, i don't mean that pejoratively towards anybody — but, you know, lam quite bold. that's how i close deals. and when we were in the final negotiation, face—to—face with prince andrew, there's a point at which you feel we have a connection, he was clearly connected with the arguments we were making in that room — emily was there, stuart mclean who used to be the editor was there — and there's a point at which you are like, it's all or nothing. and my version of all or nothing is just to tell the truth. the truth is the nation perceived him as guilty, because randy andy, air—miles andy, girls, islands, rich people, this is his product. and so i said that to him directly.

and it could've gone horribly wrong, but as we know, it didn't. and that boldness, i think, is really part of my story, that i will, at all costs, tell the truth for better or for worse. and is that the moment that the deal was sealed? that's the meeting? that was the meeting at which, after they decided, the next day they decided that they were going to do it. that's right. and how big a gap was there, then, between that point and actually doing the interview? because i guess with an interview like this, like so many, but particularly an interview like this, it's not happening until you're actually in the room and the cameras are rolling? oh, it's not happening until it broadcasts, in my view. this was just so precarious. so, the timeline, i'm so sorry, it sounds a bit like a craig david song. the timeline was we did the final meeting on monday. they said yes on tuesday. they wanted to do it on wednesday, but they agreed to thursday. the first tweet went out on friday. the world went mad. and that was quite a bland tweet about the content. and my editor very kindly mentioned my role in securing the interview, esme wren, which was very kind of her. and then, on saturday, the interview landed. so just a very small period of time. and we should say that

prince andrew continues to deny all the allegations that are made, and that he's guilty ofjust being friends and being loyal tojeffrey epstein without knowing whatjeffrey epstein was actually doing. is it ok to watch and enjoy a drama that only exists because a guy was a paedophile? ithink, you know, i understand that as a question. and it's obviously something, you know, we all think about. ultimately this is, in a sense, a complementary item to the incredible work that the lawyers and the young women who made these allegations, these appalling and terrible allegations, made. and this piece ofjournalism was separate to that. i didn't work in that world. i wasn't working with them. i don't know them personally. what we were doing is the same as you guys do every day, try to bring light and truth to important issues. and this could not have been a more important issue. so the outcome of this obviously was, although he obviously

strenuously denies the allegations, that there were outcomes. and that isjournalism at its best. no, we weren't directly affected by this. the crimes alleged are appalling, but the outcome was, you know, useful and helpful to the world and to those individual brave women who brought the claims against prince andrew and against others. my favourite bit at the start is — and most people will not even notice this bit because it's not very dramatic — when you're having the team meeting about what to put in the programme that night, and there's no big stories. and someone goes, "0h, should we just do brexit again?" because, of course, it's around about 2017, 2018. "oh, yes, i remember it well!" was there ever a big bid, as we call them in the trade, that you missed out on, that you didn't get, that you still kick yourself? mate, my life was 99% rejection. you know, this is the one time that it went right. i mean, every day i was rejected. we were the last in the queue, you know, on the cost—benefit analysis, risking coming on with the incredible emily maitlis

or the incredible jeremy paxman. it's not really great on the cost—benefit analysis. so my life was relentless rejection. so, yeah, i've been knocked back million times. so you couldn't sign up to doing a soft interview, or "we won't mention that subject"? that's just not how it works? 100%. can't do a deal? you don't pay any money, you don't do deals, you don't do red lines. you won't tell them what the questions are. you know, there's literally nothing in it for them, in a sense, other than obviously, you know, the important fact of telling the truth and engaging with journalism. but it was always an uphill struggle. so every time i got a piece of content, in a bunfight with my other dear bbc colleagues, particularly the today programme, bunfight, bunfight. .. yeah. a strange way that the bbc works. we're fighting with everyone, and with one another. but every time i got content, it would be a massive, massive victory because we were the last in the queue. and this was, you know, the exception to that rule. i wonder how you wrestle with the sheer scale of that interview and the extent to which it becomes this dominating feature

of your biography, if you like? and that's brilliant, because it's been hailed so widely and here it is being dramatised. but how you, if you want to, sort of move on from it and be defined by other stuff that you might be working on now, versus that? well, look, i'm really the luckiest woman alive, you know, to have this opportunity. nobody writes a book who's a nobody like, you know, lam, and gets a channel a documentary, which i did as well, and a netflix deal. this is one in a billion, once in a lifetime. is it true that emily used to take her dog into the office and the studio? because her whippet appears in the film at work a lot. moody, the sensational whippet, which is absolutely beautiful. it's been in tatler. i mean, it's more famous than any of us, that dog. it's a gorgeous dog. and sometimes it was in the newsnight office. yes, indeed. wow. and we were pleased to see him. what a gorgeous dog. i don't know if you've got any pets.

i haven't got any pets, but i did meet a newscaster this week who is an assiduous viewer, in particular, of the television version of newscast on a thursday night and noticed over our shoulder in this radio studio some cords hanging on the wall behind us. and i was asked if they were dog leads for your dog and mine. they're actually electrical cables with a bit of fur upon them. suffice to say, proof... eagle—eyed viewers. exactly. i'm so impressed by that. your viewers are really impressive. yes. so had emily been here herself, moody... it was moody? moody. moody would have been suitably restrained. yeah. albeit with an electric cable, which probably is not a good idea. sam, thanks for coming in. pleasure. and chris, good to catch up with you. and you. and thank you very much for listening to another episode of newscast. remember, if you've ever played sport with a politician — what was it you said, hurling with hunt? yes.

hockey with hunt? hockey with hunt, i think it was, yeah. if that's what you've done, then let us know. newscast@bbc.co.uk. and there'll be another episode along very soon. bye. i'm trying to think of one last one, but i can't. bye— bye. swimming with sunak. that's good! i think we'll call it a day at that. bye. newscast. newscast, from the bbc. good afternoon. some impressive cloudscapes out there today. yes, some spells of sunshine, but these big shower clouds bringing some very heavy downpours of rain, a bit of thunder and lightning thrown in. some of the showers have been wintry over high ground in the north. here it is on the satellite picture. these lumpy shower clouds pushing south—eastwards across the uk. just about wherever

you are through the rest of the day, you could see a shower. some of the showers heavy, with hail and thunder. still wintry over the highest ground in scotland — say, above 500 or 600 metres elevation. windy out there, particularly gusty for western and northern coasts. and so, that is affecting the feel of the weather. temperatures on the thermometer — nine or ten degrees. factor in the strength of the wind, the feels—like temperatures — which include the wind chill — around five or six degrees. so as we head into the evening, still a few showers around. in fact, some more persistent rain and mountain snow across some parts of eastern and north—eastern scotland. elsewhere, i think most of the showers will fade through the night. it will stay fairly blustery. the winds easing down a little bit across western parts, but staying windy enough to stop the temperatures dropping too far — three, four or five degrees for most of us into tomorrow morning. now, we start tomorrow with this very weak ridge of high pressure just trying to build its way in. that will give us a window of drier and quieter weather. still quite windy close to the east

coast as we start the day, with one or two showers. we'll keep some showers in northern scotland, wintry over high ground. and then, through the afternoon, cloud will gather out towards the west. that mayjust bring a little bit of rain into western counties of northern ireland through the second half of the afternoon. temperatures a little bit up on where they are today, actually, around 11 or 12 degrees. now, through sunday night and into monday, this frontal system tries to push its way in from the west. there is still a little bit of uncertainty about how much progress this front will make northwards and eastwards. i think the greatest chance of rain on monday is across south—west england, also parts of wales, northern ireland. but it may be that this wet weather ends up pushing a little bit further north. and if it gets into scotland — well, that could give some snow. at this stage, it looks like just some wintry showers in northern scotland. many eastern parts of the uk largely dry. but through the week ahead, we will see showers or longer spells of rain. the chance for some snow, especially over high ground in scotland.

live from london, this is bbc news. four gunmen arrested after 133 killed in a moscow concert hall attack — president putin vows they will be punished. the islamic state group claims responsibility, releasing a photo of four masked men it says were involved. an outpouring of support for the princess of wales, who's revealed in a video message she's in the early stages of cancer treatment. "it is time to stop the nightmare" — the words of the un secretary—general speaking at the rafah border crossing. hello.

we begin in russia, following the deadly attack on a concert hall where at least 130 people were killed. the death toll is expected to "rise significantly", according to the city's governor. in a televised address, president vladimir putin said that all four gunmen behind the attack have been arrested. seven others have been detained for their suspected involvment. he called the attack a �*barbaric terrorist act', and he announced that the 24th of march would be a national day of mourning. president putin said �*all those responsible will be punished'. translation: all those _ who were shooting and killing people were found and detained. they tried to hide and were moving towards ukraine where, according to preliminary information for them from the ukrainian side, a window to cross the border had been prepared. altogether, 11 people were detained. federal security services of russia, other services work on finding